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	<title>Comments on: The limits of &#8220;openness&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/</link>
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		<title>By: Kip Watson</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Kip Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 08:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/the-limits-of-openness/#comment-13</guid>
		<description>A very muddled article. Your final point was about Tariq Ramadan, a relatively safe target, but what do Mick Jagger, advertising billboards and so on have to do with him?

Besides which, you would be more credible if one could escape the feeling that you are simply an advocate of the Old Order -- which in was every bit as morally corrupt and wrong-headed as the New Order.

We would never have had the revolutions of the 60s and beyond  -- containing as they did some positive elements and many unfortunate ones -- if the old order had not been full of hypocrisy, entrenched power and immovable privilege. The fault is probably all mine, but what I hear from your meandering prose is the bitter envy of one illegitimate clique usurped by another.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very muddled article. Your final point was about Tariq Ramadan, a relatively safe target, but what do Mick Jagger, advertising billboards and so on have to do with him?</p>
<p>Besides which, you would be more credible if one could escape the feeling that you are simply an advocate of the Old Order &#8212; which in was every bit as morally corrupt and wrong-headed as the New Order.</p>
<p>We would never have had the revolutions of the 60s and beyond  &#8212; containing as they did some positive elements and many unfortunate ones &#8212; if the old order had not been full of hypocrisy, entrenched power and immovable privilege. The fault is probably all mine, but what I hear from your meandering prose is the bitter envy of one illegitimate clique usurped by another.</p>
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		<title>By: BMoon</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>BMoon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/the-limits-of-openness/#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Roger,
Chesterson&#039;s * saying applies with the &quot;open mind&quot; meme of the left. He said, &quot;An open mind is really a mark of foolishness, like an open mouth. Mouths and minds were made to shut; they were made to open only in order to shut.&quot; The problem today is that the leftist elite of both sides of the puddle like to think they are open-minded and they are, as open and empty as the ghoulish, gaping, drooling mouth of a lobotomized imbecile.

Welcome to PJM and the fun!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger,<br />
Chesterson&#8217;s * saying applies with the &#8220;open mind&#8221; meme of the left. He said, &#8220;An open mind is really a mark of foolishness, like an open mouth. Mouths and minds were made to shut; they were made to open only in order to shut.&#8221; The problem today is that the leftist elite of both sides of the puddle like to think they are open-minded and they are, as open and empty as the ghoulish, gaping, drooling mouth of a lobotomized imbecile.</p>
<p>Welcome to PJM and the fun!</p>
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		<title>By: LSD</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>LSD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 00:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/the-limits-of-openness/#comment-11</guid>
		<description>Very nice entry, Mr. Kimball!

The picture you describe, of a massive Ramadan partnered with the limber ballerinas, is disturbing.

Hopefully western academia finds professors of substantial weight to preclude gymnastics.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice entry, Mr. Kimball!</p>
<p>The picture you describe, of a massive Ramadan partnered with the limber ballerinas, is disturbing.</p>
<p>Hopefully western academia finds professors of substantial weight to preclude gymnastics.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 20:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/the-limits-of-openness/#comment-10</guid>
		<description>Welcome.  And thank you for a bit of fresh air in this &quot;tolerant&quot; country and the West.  If we miss the ball, my only consolation will be that my head will be bobbing down that blood flooded street and everyone else&#039;s head will be in front, behind, left and right side of mine.  We become, in the West, tolerant at our grave peril.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome.  And thank you for a bit of fresh air in this &#8220;tolerant&#8221; country and the West.  If we miss the ball, my only consolation will be that my head will be bobbing down that blood flooded street and everyone else&#8217;s head will be in front, behind, left and right side of mine.  We become, in the West, tolerant at our grave peril.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Mecklenburg</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Mecklenburg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/the-limits-of-openness/#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Mr Kimball, you write that &quot;an explanation might begin with the implicit equivalence proposed between an antinomian rock anthem and a monument of high modernism&quot; but you also miss a step there. The Rolling Stones&#039; &quot;Sympathy for the Devil&quot; was inspired by the first English publication of Bulgakov&#039;s The Master and Margarita in the mid-1960s.

Bulgakov&#039;s novel is certainly one of the signal (and heroic) cultural achievements of the 20th Century. It stands rightly beside Eliot&#039;s Four Quartets. Whether the Stones Crowley-ized it&#039;s themes is open to debate, but without arguing for equivalence--I agree with you on that--it is still fair to say that there&#039;s more to the story.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Kimball, you write that &#8220;an explanation might begin with the implicit equivalence proposed between an antinomian rock anthem and a monument of high modernism&#8221; but you also miss a step there. The Rolling Stones&#8217; &#8220;Sympathy for the Devil&#8221; was inspired by the first English publication of Bulgakov&#8217;s The Master and Margarita in the mid-1960s.</p>
<p>Bulgakov&#8217;s novel is certainly one of the signal (and heroic) cultural achievements of the 20th Century. It stands rightly beside Eliot&#8217;s Four Quartets. Whether the Stones Crowley-ized it&#8217;s themes is open to debate, but without arguing for equivalence&#8211;I agree with you on that&#8211;it is still fair to say that there&#8217;s more to the story.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/the-limits-of-openness/#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Mr. Kimball, I am an admirer of yours and of the New Criterion - very gratifying to have you blogging at Pajamas.

I recently listened to Ramadan&#039;s delivery in a debate entitled something like &quot;Resolved: the West should not only defend its values but promote them as superior [to the Muslim world].&quot;  How is it that minds otherwise wholly opposed to the plain meaning of Ramadan&#039;s obvious preference are so distracted by these by now rote French postmodern dissimulations?  And the historiography!  According to this brand of intellectual insurgent, all wisdom issued directly from 12th century Spain, without which the tribes of Europe would have remained forever ignorant.  The success of this misrepresentation - and the rhetorical disarmament that is its purpose - depends upon the kind of ignorance I would ordinarily presume to be absent from the Oxbridge set.  It is a backdoor to the absurd claim that Islam and Muslim jurisprudence-theology originated human rights thought, and thence to the cultural relativist - really revanchist - claim of cultural equality.

I&#039;d like to propose an effort to introduce the history of the Byzantine state and its environs into the general historical chronology (presuming anyone teaches straightforward chronology anymore).  The thug intellectual revolutionaries like Ramadan are exploiting this particular black hole too effectively, in my opinion.  It would also be an effective way of introducing &quot;actual existing&quot; Islam into the canon, regardless of its hagiography.  I was fortunate to go to a high school (mid &#039;90s) that taught western civilization over the course of two years, beginning with Sumeria and ending with World War 2, ideally.  We also had a class entirely on American history.  Perhaps the powers that be could make room for Byzantium and a greater understanding of the Classical-Medieval/Modern transition, end the general historical education with the Napoleonic wars or French Revolution, and incorporate the 19th and 20th centuries into the American course.  We must find some way to innoculate the educated against the lies otherwise designed to ensare them and I think this might help.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Kimball, I am an admirer of yours and of the New Criterion &#8211; very gratifying to have you blogging at Pajamas.</p>
<p>I recently listened to Ramadan&#8217;s delivery in a debate entitled something like &#8220;Resolved: the West should not only defend its values but promote them as superior [to the Muslim world].&#8221;  How is it that minds otherwise wholly opposed to the plain meaning of Ramadan&#8217;s obvious preference are so distracted by these by now rote French postmodern dissimulations?  And the historiography!  According to this brand of intellectual insurgent, all wisdom issued directly from 12th century Spain, without which the tribes of Europe would have remained forever ignorant.  The success of this misrepresentation &#8211; and the rhetorical disarmament that is its purpose &#8211; depends upon the kind of ignorance I would ordinarily presume to be absent from the Oxbridge set.  It is a backdoor to the absurd claim that Islam and Muslim jurisprudence-theology originated human rights thought, and thence to the cultural relativist &#8211; really revanchist &#8211; claim of cultural equality.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to propose an effort to introduce the history of the Byzantine state and its environs into the general historical chronology (presuming anyone teaches straightforward chronology anymore).  The thug intellectual revolutionaries like Ramadan are exploiting this particular black hole too effectively, in my opinion.  It would also be an effective way of introducing &#8220;actual existing&#8221; Islam into the canon, regardless of its hagiography.  I was fortunate to go to a high school (mid &#8217;90s) that taught western civilization over the course of two years, beginning with Sumeria and ending with World War 2, ideally.  We also had a class entirely on American history.  Perhaps the powers that be could make room for Byzantium and a greater understanding of the Classical-Medieval/Modern transition, end the general historical education with the Napoleonic wars or French Revolution, and incorporate the 19th and 20th centuries into the American course.  We must find some way to innoculate the educated against the lies otherwise designed to ensare them and I think this might help.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Rigrod</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Rigrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/the-limits-of-openness/#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Extremely well written, but very depressing, Mr. Kimball. It reminds me of my last trip to London unfortunately.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Extremely well written, but very depressing, Mr. Kimball. It reminds me of my last trip to London unfortunately.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Somsel</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Somsel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/the-limits-of-openness/#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Reminds me of a Bertrand Russell quip:

&quot;An open mind is an empty mind.&quot;

Maybe the same logic applies to souls.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of a Bertrand Russell quip:</p>
<p>&#8220;An open mind is an empty mind.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe the same logic applies to souls.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/the-limits-of-openness/#comment-5</guid>
		<description>Wonderful analysis, but if you&#039;d shared my experience among the professed &quot;open minded,&quot; I believe you&#039;d have come to a bit different conclusion.

I was on the board of a school in the San Francisco area. Every other Volvo in the parking lot featured the &quot;Minds are like parachutes; they only work when they are open&quot; sticker. Yet, as a community they mostly spent their time aggrieved at any perceived departure from doctrine.

I could go on, but the sum of it is, I have never been around more narrow-minded people nor around people more prone to proclaim their (non-existent) broad-mindedness.

To me, a fetish for open-mindedness serves as nothing more than psychological cover for a closed mind.

These people also applauded their own tolerance, though, cocooned as they kept themselves, they were never actually called on to display real tolerance.

Tolerance is a poorly understood concept. It is a set of social skills to be employed with engaging with others who have differing social constructs who nevertheless are operating with good will.

You can safely use tolerance with those harboring ill will ONLY if you first put on such a show of strength that they set their ill intentions aside. Just watch Europe to see what happens if you don&#039;t impress your strength on your adversaries.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful analysis, but if you&#8217;d shared my experience among the professed &#8220;open minded,&#8221; I believe you&#8217;d have come to a bit different conclusion.</p>
<p>I was on the board of a school in the San Francisco area. Every other Volvo in the parking lot featured the &#8220;Minds are like parachutes; they only work when they are open&#8221; sticker. Yet, as a community they mostly spent their time aggrieved at any perceived departure from doctrine.</p>
<p>I could go on, but the sum of it is, I have never been around more narrow-minded people nor around people more prone to proclaim their (non-existent) broad-mindedness.</p>
<p>To me, a fetish for open-mindedness serves as nothing more than psychological cover for a closed mind.</p>
<p>These people also applauded their own tolerance, though, cocooned as they kept themselves, they were never actually called on to display real tolerance.</p>
<p>Tolerance is a poorly understood concept. It is a set of social skills to be employed with engaging with others who have differing social constructs who nevertheless are operating with good will.</p>
<p>You can safely use tolerance with those harboring ill will ONLY if you first put on such a show of strength that they set their ill intentions aside. Just watch Europe to see what happens if you don&#8217;t impress your strength on your adversaries.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/post/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2007/10/30/the-limits-of-openness/#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Great article, Mr. Kimball!  Welcome to PJM.  I agree that those who decry Western Civ and its&#039; attendant goodness will be sadly disappointed when they give in to the &quot;inclusiveness&quot; of the Tariq Ramadans of the world and discover that they have been conned.  This realization occurs directly before they are subjected to the tender mercies of sharia law for participating in something that their unappreciated Western Civ has allowed freely.  Then &quot;culture essentialism&quot; will be much more important and life-giving.

Look forward to seeing more posts!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, Mr. Kimball!  Welcome to PJM.  I agree that those who decry Western Civ and its&#8217; attendant goodness will be sadly disappointed when they give in to the &#8220;inclusiveness&#8221; of the Tariq Ramadans of the world and discover that they have been conned.  This realization occurs directly before they are subjected to the tender mercies of sharia law for participating in something that their unappreciated Western Civ has allowed freely.  Then &#8220;culture essentialism&#8221; will be much more important and life-giving.</p>
<p>Look forward to seeing more posts!</p>
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