95 Comments

1. ic:

I bet the UN will condemn Russia in a heart beat. Er, wait, did you say Russia is in the Security Council? I trust, unlike the United States which has a tragic history of bullying the weak, Russia will do the right thing.

Aug 10, 2008 - 10:35 am 2. punditius:

Your update link is bad.

Aug 10, 2008 - 10:57 am 3. Stephen Rittenberg, M.D.:

Superb! Character meets ideology. Mc’Cain is a fully formed man, an adult capable of thinking realistically. Obama is an unformed psychological adolescent, in thrall to utopian fantasies and grandiose notions that all conflicts can be resolved with words.

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:02 am 4. ZEITGEIST:

[...] ROGER KIMBALL: The crisis in Georgia, 9/11, and the lessons of gratitude. [...]

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:05 am 5. Zero:

The correct link for the update is http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/print/021210.php

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:12 am 6. Zero:

Jeez, I think I’m so smart. That is the print link. This is the Permalink: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/08/021210.php

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:14 am 7. Pajamas Media » Georgia and Russia - McCain and Obama:

[...] Read the entire story here. [...]

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:17 am 8. Ron Hardin:

I liked Imus’s remark very early after 9/11 : We’re lucky to have Bush as President for this. He’s enough of a prick to pull the trigger.

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:19 am 9. Len Frankel:

The triumph of HOPE, CHANGE, PROGRESS, whatever, over experience.

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:20 am 10. Chuck Simmins:

I’ve been covering the invasion as best I could. The Georgians were put into a tough spot. The Russians held a military exercise to parallel our in Georgia at the end of July, but they did not go home like our Marines did. I can see the Georgians hoping that a quick strike taking South Ossetia would present the Russians with a fait accompli.

The Georgians failed to take or close the Roki tunnel. Had they done so, they stood a chance.

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:21 am 11. RAH:

I doubt that the war between Georgia and Russia will make people think they need a strong commander in chief like John McCain. Those who are inclined toward passivism and isolationism will use this as a lesson not to get involved in overseas adventures in Russia’s backyard.

To be practical, there are serious risks to US involvement in the Georgian/ Russian war. The Black Sea is the Russians ocean and they control it. The only sea route from Romania to get troops and supplies is across the Black Sea and subject to interdiction. Turkey was not amenable to using their territory for the invasion of Iraq. We have to depend on a long supply line from Kuwait. I doubt that Turkey with Erdogan and the new islamcist direction the country is going in, would be inclined to support American adventurism in Georgia. They are not the same as Attaturk’s Turkey on the 1950’s, which was a strong bulwark against the USSR.

Our present war in Afghanistan is not doing well. The support route is through Pakistan and they are losing the Khyber Pass to the Taliban and Baitullah Mehsud. The only other route for logistical support in through Russia. If we lose Pakistan as an ally and Musharaff is impeached, we are without a good retreat path. We can get the personnel out but the armor will be left behind. That is a worst-case scenario. We may get them out through Turkmenistan but that country is a pro Russia ally and the cost could be huge.
Then over the Caspian Sea to Azerbaijan. I cannot imagine that we would invade Iran just to get our armor and personnel out which is the other route.

We cannot get a strong force other than by air to Georgia by land or sea.
The closest airbase is Incirlik in Turkey and I do not think they will allow us to use our basing rights to attack Russian forces and get them involved in the war.

I do agree that Russia should be pushed back, that this is a bad lesson, but I do not see how this can be done without huge risks, So to be realistic, Obama’s waffle position is not relevant since this is a case we can not actually do an effective military intervention. At this point only a military intervention will have any effect against Russia

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:24 am 12. Kathianne:

I wonder where the leadership of the Ukraine is? Seems to me they would be second on the Russian agenda.

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:27 am 13. bob:

This must be the worst article i ever read, it makes no sense and makes up no man wrong assumptions.

Lets face it, George bush like him or not has made the united states weaker under he’s leadership than under bill clinton leadership.

Today the United states has no moral authority left whatsoever to talk about human rights and the respect of law.

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:29 am 14. thenakedemperor:

Great! Totally Naked Imperialism!!! Targeting and Killing Civilians Wantonly!!! War for Oil!!! The Leader Lied!! Lets Protest!!!

Oh wait.. They’re Marxists. Never mind. Wonder whats on the tube tonight?

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:34 am 15. David P:

An army of 18,000 alone cannot defeat Russian might without the physical support of an equally strong ally. The fallout will have tremendous ramifications based on America’s inability to exert force behind its diplomatic pressures. Capitulation and hollow warnings from both parties are paving a golden road to a nuclear Tehran. Relying on U.N resolutions accompanied by inaction strands fledging democracies leaving them vulnerable, Lebanon, Georgia, Ukraine to the cruelest of tyrants.

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:40 am 16. bill-tb:

Obama is a little child-like in all his responses. Didn’t he ever grow up, or was the womb of the academic intelligentsia just too comfortable. America needs leaders who at least know when the sun is shining.

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:46 am 17. Paul:

When I watch CNN and BBC, I remember George Orwell’s “1984″.
They show you only what they want you to see.
You don’t know that Georgia, breaking all the agreements, has come to South Ossetia, demolishing towns and villages, starting genocide of Ossetian pople (more than 2000 people now).
You don’t know that Tskhinvali, capitall of South Ossetia now lay in ruins.
You don’t see peacefull ossetian people, children, women who die under fire of georgian multiple artillery rocket systems.
Georgian soldiers shot russian citizens and peacekeepers.
That’s why Russia there (after 24 hours after this slaughter started) – to safe human lifes and to prevent humanitarian disaster.

I’ve never seen such a liar like Georgia’s president Saakashvilli.

And I see your democracy is only fairy tale for adults…

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:59 am 18. Don:

Obama reacted as he always (it seems) reacts. When faced with controversy or threat he punts. The Wright “eruptions” demonstrated this, he delayed, ignored, and finally when forced to say “something” he reacted 2x with ambiguity. It would be fun to watch him (as a president) trying to talk much/say nothing when faced with real threat. Trouble is we can’t afford to lose in situations like this. Our best pay in blood for weakness.

Loath to react, ambiguous in response = weak.

Aug 10, 2008 - 12:01 pm 19. Canadian Neighbour:

BOB-11:29am:If I thought you had a brain, I would say you’ve been brainwashed by the MSM.

USA is still the most trusted and admired Nation in the world bar none. Most people would cut off their right arm for the opportunity to become an American citizen. Who would you rather have had as president for the past almost eight years? Al Gore? John Kerry?

In a few years when you’re a bit older and hopefully wiser, you’ll come to appreciate the greatness of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

If the majority of Americans are as stupid as you and elect Barack Obama President,you will come to appreciate Bush not years from now but months from now.

Aug 10, 2008 - 12:13 pm 20. cubanbob:

Bob: your comment is joke? I hope so otherwise what color is the sky on you planet? FYI Clinton cut the Army down by 6 divisions.
Moral authority? And what is exactly is that suppose to mean? Russians are not deterred by moral authority. Terrorist are also not
deterred by moral authority. Those who are deterred by moral authority are the ones are the ones who do not need to be deterred in the first place. Criminals need deterrence, decent law abiding folks don’t. Is this too complex for a progressive brain?

Interesting observation: Israel kills some p.o.s terrorist and all the progressive go crazy with their denunciations about the occupation and disproportional use of force. America whacks some terrorist and the gitmo crowd chimes in. Russia launches a full scale invasion of another legitimate nation state that has not been fomenting terrorist acts against others, kills thousands of civilians and the progressives are outraged? No. And that is why? Because they are nothing more than what they have always been; fascist, treasonous fifth columnist communists. They never concern themselves with the dead unless it is a group that is useful to them. Vietcong, yes. Cambodians killed by communist (the killing fields) no. Arab/Muslim terrorist, yes. Americans and Israeli’s (and other Westerners), no.

If the CIA was actually worth something, it should have warned the Georgians. Now if only we can shipped the Georgians some decent anti-tank and anti-aircraft equipment like we did back in the 80’s to Afghanistan. The Georgians won’t win, but the Russians will suffer enough to back off to their minimum set of objectives. Putin is truly a stupid Checkist. He may well get his short term objective,but he has once again reminded the former communist countries why they need to arm themselves and never trust the Russians (or the Western Europeans). As for the US, another reason to get rid of the democrats and start drilling like crazy for oil at home. Drop the price of oil back to the high 60’s and Russia is broke again and the Arabs chastened and Venezuela defanged.

The other Bob (the sane one).

Aug 10, 2008 - 12:43 pm 21. Russia’s Aggression–UPDATED « Blog Entry « Dr. Melissa Clouthier:

[...] here’s more from Roger Kimball regarding McCain vs. Obama’s response: For his part, Barack Obama called for “talks among [...]

Aug 10, 2008 - 12:48 pm 22. Obama’s “Can’t We All Just Get Along?” Foreign Policy « Pagan Power:

[...] The crisis in Georgia, 9/11, and the lessons of gratitude I strongly support the declaration issued by the Presidents of Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, and their commitment that ‘aggression against a small country in Europe will not be passed over in silence or with meaningless statements equating the victims with the victimizers.’ [...]

Aug 10, 2008 - 1:12 pm 23. Jesus Warrior:

This is the opportunity to have an opinion about foreign policy but one is on vacation and the other have yet to say a thing. Mr. McCain should be calling on President Bush to warn the Russians it is out of order. Morality and Mr.Obama at the church he sat in for twenty years. Increase the numbers of the military and these conflicts of muscles would not happen. The defender of justice has one hand tied his back by the policy of downsizing the defenders of justice. democrats want the military in Afghanistan and Dalfur, while downsizing the Iraq forces. Morality of and politics usually do not mix especially when it is of international matters.

Aug 10, 2008 - 1:25 pm 24. TheGrandMufti:

Bob’s comment is a Pavlovian reflex which triggers whenever something challenges his Bushitler narrative. No substance just some barking sounds.

WTF is “moral authority” anyway? Is that some code word for doing that which Bob does not approve?

Aug 10, 2008 - 1:30 pm 25. DoktorNo:

Georgia had lost. Period.

She had tried to play va banque, after months of provocations from Osetian side, supported by Russia.

And she failed, like Israel in Lebanon in 2006.

So far Bush administration is doing nothing to solve this problem, because USA needs Russia to enforce sanctions on Iran.

A really messy situation.

Aug 10, 2008 - 1:35 pm 26. Steynian 220 « Free Mark Steyn!:

[...] FOR OIL, FASCIST-STYLE: Russian jets targeted major oil pipeline. The crisis in Georgia, 9/11, and the lessons of gratitude by Roger Kimball. Video: Raw footage from the Russo-Georgian War. Russian Move ‘tightens [...]

Aug 10, 2008 - 1:41 pm 27. Cletus:

Israel only lost because they caved to negative public opinion brought on by the hoax known as the “qana ambulance strike”, which was invented by some palestinians and trumpted by the MSM as fact despite all contradicting evidence

Aug 10, 2008 - 1:56 pm 28. Terry Gain:

It’s not clear what the United States can or should do about the Russian attack on Georgia.

What is clear – in fact crystal clear – is that the ability of the President of the United States to act is hampered by seven years of vicious partisan attacks upon him (and his office) by people who enjoy all of the benefits of being an American citizen but have no inkling of the responsibilities that must be beared if those benefits are to continue.

bob at 11:29 am is a perfect example of the ridiculous partisanship which has crippled the United States. Pretending that a nation that has given blood and treasure to liberate 58 million people does not have moral authority -or that Russian is deterred by moral authority- is insane.

Aug 10, 2008 - 2:36 pm 29. airth10:

There is something smelly about Roger’s argument about having George Bush as commander in chief rather than Al Gore after 9/11, He argues that Al Gore would not have had the metal to respond to the attack. But he ignores the fact that Bush allowed 9/11 to happen due to his ignorance and the ignoring of intelligence that said such an attack was possible. And Bush was also warned by the previous administration that al Qaeda was very dangerous.

If Al Gore had been president it is quite possible that the attacks of 9/11 would not have happened or may have been thwarted, because his administration would have been more competent and responsible with the intelligence they would have gathered.

It is quite likely that Bush deliberately ignored the possibility of such an attack so that he could have a pretext to attack Iraq, something that he and his ilk, which I believe includes Roger, were itching to do.

Aug 10, 2008 - 3:00 pm 30. The lights go out in Georgia « Likelihood of Success:

[...] Roger Kimball’s article (via Glenn) comparing the McCain and Obama statements on the situation also demonstrates nicely how, like the Grenada invasion, the Putin war on Georgia also has the quality of distilling a wide range of political and moral realities.   So many Cold War moments do. [...]

Aug 10, 2008 - 3:05 pm 31. Eunomia » Speaking Of Gratitude…:

[...] wanting to dwell too much on Roger Kimball’s response to the war in Georgia, his new post concerning the candidates’ reactions prompted two reactions.  When I saw the headline, [...]

Aug 10, 2008 - 3:09 pm 32. Terry Gain:

airth10

Thanks for proving my point.

Aug 10, 2008 - 3:26 pm 33. Pierre Legrand:

If Al Gore had been president it is quite possible that the attacks of 9/11 would not have happened or may have been thwarted, because his administration would have been more competent and responsible with the intelligence they would have gathered.

muhahaha….Holy Smokes fantasy lives on! Al Gore and Clinton sat around bopping interns while the forces of evil gathered. Not once but twice those losers had a chance to kill Bin Laden and passed. Lets not even talk about the absurd reaction to the 93 WTC Bombing. Abdul Rahman was giving interviews to the Drive By’s after those two knuckleheads had a go at Anti Terror. Now Bin Laden has not made a single video and there have been no more major terror attacks in the states.

Gosh the left will be the death of us all should somehow they achieve power.

Bush should send in troops to Georgia and South Ossetia as “Peace Keepers”! We want to “help” our friends the Russians keep the peace and stablize the region. We cannot let this aggression by the Sov…err Russians stand. But lets play their idiot game better than they can. Just have someone from inside South Ossetia “invite” us!

Aug 10, 2008 - 3:34 pm 34. ProgMeister:

On 9/11 we were grateful to have a leader who could distinguish between friends and enemies

really? what I recall on 9/11 was footage of Bush looking like the classic deer caught in the headlights when he heard the news … and then he struggled with when to cut short his visit with some school children he was visiting. How about immediately, George? And that’s the guy I wanted in command? Don’t think so … and history has shown precisely why.

Seven years later, he still has yet to “bring Bin Laden to justice”

re McCain, Obama and Russia vs. Georgia, just what are you looking for from the candidates? And you’re impressed with a “condemnation” from McCain … I condemned it at the kitchen table yesterday too; impressed? Obama’s instincts were to call for some action; I know, you don’t like the action he called for … I guess he should have called for immediate nuclear attack on Moscow …

anyway, what’s with the bow tie, Rog? think you’re George Will? I know George Will, and you, sir, are no George Will

Aug 10, 2008 - 3:44 pm 35. Terry Gain:

History has shown al Qaeada kicked out of Afghanistan and dealt a devastating defeat defeat in Iraq – not only at the hands of Americans but Iraqis- , al Qaeda’s reputation in the toilet throughout the Muslim world as a result of their insane strategy of attempting to drive the United States out of Iraq by killing innocent Muslims, the genocidal mass-murdering, terrorist-training, nuclear weapons -pursuing regime removed and replaced with a democracy and, throughout it all, not one terrorist attack on the homeland.

And all of this accomplished despite a nation under attack from within.

ProgMeister? Does prog mean idiot?

Aug 10, 2008 - 4:13 pm 36. Bob Nichols:

Earth to Airth 10 – are you really that ignorant? Al Gore would have had a more competent administration?!? Like his predecessor Bill – “I did not have sex with that woman” – Clinton! The President who, for 8 years aided and abetted one terrorist act after another for his entire presidency! Have you forgotten that team Billary had only occupied the White House for a few weeks before the first World Trade Center bombing? Have you forgotten (or did you even know?) that he was giving a speech in New Jersey (that’s just across the river from New York which is where the bombing took place, killing 6 and injuring 1000, and no I am not counting the heart attack victim who would bring the count to 7 dead), and who refused to not only make the 20 minute drive to the bombing site but would insist for the next 8 years on labeling all such terrorist attacks as mere “criminal acts” and insist on trying to prosecute said terrorists through our woefully inadequate criminal justice system.
The same president who not once, but twice had the opportunity to either take Osama bin Laden into custody or kill him BEFORE 9/11 was anything but a plan on paper? You are actually ignorant enough to believe that the “messiah” of the current U.S. “green movement,” Al (the consummate elitist) Gore, the same Gore who knowingly distorted the facts in his “An Inconvenient Truth” who has not only shamelessly cashed in on nearly $100 million dollars to his personal bank account, but who has equally shamelessly just purchased a brand spanking new 100’ houseboat that is currently parked in a lake in Tennessee? You mean the same Al Gore whose personal 10,000 square foot home (read mansion) that uses more energy on an annual basis than more than 230 “average” homes do each month?
The same Al Gore who has a private jet, the huge mansion, and the fleet of gas guzzling SUV’s that is laughing all the way to the bank? That Al Gore? You would actually show your stunning ignorance (or is it simply your hate of America?) to indicate that President Bush may have intentionally allowed the twin symbols of America’s financial might to be destroyed, not to mention those thousands of defenseless Americans to be butchered, JUST so he could invade Iraq?
I must admit the stunning display of your ignorance leaves me speechless….

Aug 10, 2008 - 5:08 pm 37. notutopia:

I would not rely on O bamo to tie my shoes!, Much less be able to keep this country from tripping and falling on it’s face.
This is the strategy of “kill two birds with one stone!” Russian timing of this diversion taking place has been brewing since the implant of Russian peacekeeping forces months ago. Our president is in Beijing at the Olympics, as are many other country leaders. The US House is vacationing in recess. This whole scenario is over turf being ‘reclaimed’ from which they view being taken back from an unappreciative, turncoat neighbor of Western Ideologies AND to gain more coastal oil access to the Caspian Sea. Not to mention the ethnic squabbles, Georgia is a major
thorn in Russian plans for more occupation of oil access and strategic territory. If it pulls Georgia off the Nato list guarantee in this takeover maneuver, it’s Marxist force of control will not stop there. Ukraine is next in the march. We as a country had best decide quickly if democracy and oil is worth our intervention into this old Russian fief, because if we stall too much longer, Western european oil transport pipelines will be in Russian hands, and so will the oil and so will our negotiating for Iranian support of Non nuclearization of Natanz.
O bamo, has already had his warm milk and gone to bed. Mc Cain is busy questioning the current intel and making his strategic calls. You decide. We decide.

Aug 10, 2008 - 5:36 pm 38. really:

roger, you embaress yourself by writing on things which you very clearly know nothing about. pathological hatred for all things russian, no matter how sincere john mccain is in expressing it, does not a fully formed foreign policy make. you can talk all you want about obama’s naivite, but it’s a very sad day indeed when mindlessly supporting a miniscule, poverty stricken pseudo-democratic (saakashvili once won 96% of the vote. either he’s the best politician in human history, or something is fishy about the vote) statelet becomes the “realistic” position while respecting the position of a far more important, powerful and, especially in this case, justified country is the “weak willed” or “irresponsible” one.

you would think that, for a self-styled intellectual such as yourself, the stinging defeats (oh, wait, i’m sure you don’t admit they’re stinging, much less defeats) we are suffering in iraq would make you a bit skeptical about our ability to go marching around the world spreading freedom at the point of an m16.

maybe the humilitating defeat of the lovable little saakashvili, who seems to be even more obtuse and idiotic than bush, will teach the world a lesson? well, there’s always hope but you’ll probably go on reflexively yelling “muchich 1938!” and “september 11!” until the usa is a wholly owned subsidiary of the chinese.

oh, and for the record, the first (yes, the first) country to express condolences and extend aid to the unitd states after 9/11 was…. georgia? no, nope it was “soviet” (you do realize it’s capitalist by now, don’t you?) russia.

Aug 10, 2008 - 6:15 pm 39. Bonzo:

The analogy to Israel is telling. EUnuchstan and American leftards don’t care about ‘peace’, ‘justice’, ‘rule of law’. Israel needs to look carefully at Georgia and decide if she would prefer getting along and going along with left, communists and islime FASCISTS who kill for fun.

The truly sad, pathetic, sorry aspect is that those who chant the loudest for 1. peace, 2. freeing Tibet, 3. saving Darfur, guarantee death and degradation of liberty.

Free Georgia? No. Human liberty is not as important as reducing our carbon emissions.

Sad and pathetic…..

Aug 10, 2008 - 6:22 pm 40. Bonzo:

9-11 forced everyone to choose sides. 9-11 forced everyone to show their cards.

‘World Citizen’ leftards, EUnuchstanians and ‘progressives’ leaped so hard that we now know what cards they held: Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary, John Edwards, Obama.

leftards said:
W is a stupid idiot, a fool, a dumb loser dolt who is so obviously stupid that only an idiot is blind to his stupid, dumb fuckwitticisms.

Leftards erected Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary, John Edwards, Obama.

I predict with 23 percent certainty that Al Gore will be the nominee come November. I hope not because Gore will unite the ‘rats in a way that will multiply their love of Obama and Clinton while uniting them on their hatred of W (and of course their assumption that liberty, freedom and rule of law ARE NORMAL CONDITIONS OF HUMANITY).

Aug 10, 2008 - 6:35 pm 41. Terry Gain:

If the United States becomes a wholly owwned subsidiary of China then you can thank the tax and spend (but don’t drill) Democrats. These are the capitalist-hating folks who will spend money on everything but defense.

Aug 10, 2008 - 6:39 pm 42. steveaz:

It’s looking like this might be Iraq’s first war within NATO. If she proves her ability in this fight, it’ll strength her mulit-ethnic, modern nation.

The new republic shares a border with Turkey, and, if Georgia falls back on her Turkish border, the whole gang is in the fight.

And, that’s with my nation, America, by their side.

The wild card, I think, is France. This’d be a good time for Sarkozy to show some spine.

Stayin’ tuned to Pajamasmedia…
-Steve

Aug 10, 2008 - 6:51 pm 43. Dave:

Well, this attack has brought every fellow-traveling useful idiot out of the woodwork.

You know who you are and you will lie a coward, a craven coward in your graves.

Aug 10, 2008 - 7:02 pm 44. airth10:

Let’s see John McCain get in there and bomb, bomb the Russians and start a bigger war. He is just as an hubristic fool as Bush.

The problem has been the lack of American diplomacy in the past seven years. The American diplomatic corp has been neglected in favor of American military build-up. With diplomacy and tact this war could have been averted.

Condoleezza Rice fashioned herself as a Russian expert before she joined the Bush administration. She viewed Russia as the threat of the future. If so, why didn’t she work to defuse the problem earlier? Reason, she is as incompetent as the rest of the administration. We know that because of her idiotic responses to 9/11, because of her saying, in light of overwhelming evidence, ‘who could have imagined that such an attack could happen’.

Aug 10, 2008 - 7:14 pm 45. ProgMeister:

Bob Nichols:

You’re seriously confused; the discussion is Roger’s “article” and you’re off ranting about Bill Clinton’s sex life and Al Gore’s money …. WTF? ADD? tried some Ritalin yet? Maybe I should respond with something about Bush’s alcoholism or Mary Cheney’s lesbian life?? either would be equally relevant … nah, no need to go there

Let’s do reality: We’ll never know what Al Gore would have done with 9/11. Beyond that, we’ll never know if there would have BEEN a 9/11 with President Gore; you know, he just might have listened to Richard Clarke’s warnings; Bush didn’t have any time for it

We DO know what Bush did with the situation; it’s called “wrong war, wrong place, wrong time, wrong enemy” [with thanks to Gen Omar N. Bradley for the phrase]; btw, with respect to Bill Clinton not taking a “20 minute drive to the bombing site,” are you a complete fool? What in hell did you want him to do there? Pick up a bullhorn, put on a hard hat and scream, “BRING ‘EM ON !!” ?? In case you’ve forgotten, the ‘93 incident did not engender the same kind of emotional reaction in New Yorkers as did 9-11 … and they DID in that case get Ramsey Yousef and “bring him to justice”

I thought you guys were in love with WEALTH … you have a problem with private citizen Gore leading a good life? It doesn’t haven’t a thing to do with the current discussion, but that’s par for the course with right-wingers; your candidates are complete zeroes so you’re left with no strategy other than to lie about the other guy … or, as in this case, scream about the personal wealth of Al Gore, as though it had anything to do with the November election … btw, you sure Gore uses that much electricity? We have a house 3/4 the size of his and only use about 5-6 times as much “juice” as the average Bob and Carol … but I’m almost done with the plans to convert the hot air emanating from the mouths of McCain supporters into AC power .. so, we’ll be going green before the election … and we don’t figure you’ll stop whining after November 4 either so I think we have this thing covered

I must admit the stunning display of your ignorance leaves me speechless

any chance you’ll STAY that way?

Aug 10, 2008 - 7:15 pm 46. Roger Godby:

Russia’s flexing imperialist petromuscles. It’s never been happy about the loss of its Soviet Empire, especially Georgia, through which Central Asia oil can pass without the Russians getting a piece of it; i.e., controlling it all. Putin has been strategically cunning: First, aid and abet the Russian majority in South Ossetia and whoever is in Abkhazia. Second, goad Georgia, which has a large number of troops in Iraq and not at home, into a war it’ll lose by facilitating secessionists. Third, reclaim South Ossetia from Georgia. Fourth, as Saakashvili’s government collapses and Georgians start to go crazy, Russia moves into the country “temporarily” to reintroduce stability (oh, and get that pipeline).

The US is fighting two wars and an election and Georgia is hard to reach; little or no meaningful support will come. The UN? Ha-ha. Islamifying neighbor Turkey helping Christian Georgia? The EU? Consider their callous indifference to/impotence regarding post-Yugoslavia slaughter, dependence on Russian resources. Central Asian nations using the pipeline running through Georgia might provide some form of aid, but they don’t want to be next on Russia’s hitlist (although they probably are but are looking to postpone the date).

Georgia’s going under, and nobody’s going to stop it; nobody can stop it, with the exception of the Russians, who aren’t historically known for charity or restraint.

Aug 10, 2008 - 7:37 pm 47. ProgMeister:

Terry Gain:

History has shown al Qaeada kicked out of Afghanistan

LOL … ‘ya think? Ambassador Crocker didn’t seem to think so; and McCain confuses everything since he sees trouble on the “Iraq-Pakistan border” [sic] …

throughout it all, not one terrorist attack on the homeland

maybe that’s on account of TSA not letting you bring your lipstick on board the plane

And all of this accomplished despite a nation under attack from within

so …. Mission Accomplished this time? any particular reason why McCain thinks we might be sticking around for 100 years? any reason why Iraq is banking tens of billions instead of paying for their own reconstruction, or at least making a contribution here and there? all WHAT accomplished?

we sure have come a long way down from victory in WW2 to crowing about the suppression of insurgents by force in a two-bit country

Aug 10, 2008 - 7:45 pm 48. mtraven:

In the autumn of 2001, your common or garden variety liberal might not advertise the fact…but in his heart of hearts he thanked his lucky stars that the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue was George W. Bush, not Al Gore.

You have got to be fucking kidding. No? Then you are delusional beyond hope.

You know, if I was a conservative intellectual, I’d be backing away softly and quietly from the monumental failures of the Bush administration and McCain’s promises to supply more of the same. Now would be a great time to embrace actual conservatism, which would be cautious and anti-interventionist. Of course, if you had the brains to do that you wouldn’t be a conservative in the first place. So, Roger, take up your spot as one of McCain’s blogospheric taint-moisteners. I don’t imagine you are capable of independent thought at this point anyway.

Aug 10, 2008 - 7:52 pm 49. Burning Bush:

The US is fighting two wars and an election and Georgia is hard to reach; little or no meaningful support will come.
Georgia’s going under, and nobody’s going to stop it; nobody can stop it, with the exception of the Russians, who aren’t historically known for charity or restraint.]
And we should send in American Peace Army troops? WTF are we going to send? We have our buckets full with Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.
And any American stupid enough to enter into a free fire zone, Well, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
That New testament verse,
The Strong will take over the Weak is now part of the New World Order.

Aug 10, 2008 - 8:00 pm 50. Terry Gain:

ProgMeister

What you dishonestly and stupidly refer to as “the suppression of insurgents in a two bit country” was the humiliating defeat of the very organizazation that attacked America on 9/11. The defeat occurred in a country that al Qaeda declared was the central front in their war against America and the home of the next caliphate.

Your ignorance in these matters is profound.

Aug 10, 2008 - 8:36 pm 51. Don:

You “progreassives” must be very proud . . . one comment for you Rwanda. Your Fuehrers were in charge (in the whitehouse and in congress), the liberal in the ascendancy and what do you do when 700K are slaughtered NOTHING. The shame of it is beyond measure, If I were you I would consider it the badge of reality for the real commitment of “Progressives” Talk much, say and do NOTHING. Been a soldier my entire adult life, we were shamed by you then (Oh, and who can forget Moghadishu). Progmeister, you all need be ashamed of yourselves. And you need find a candidate with intestinal fortitude, OB may be an inoffensive actor, but he demonstrates his weakness constantly (as he did with his statement on Georgia) . . . you must be very proud!!

Aug 10, 2008 - 8:41 pm 52. Georgia on our minds — Dean’s World:

[...] Roger Kimball’s article (via Instapundit) comparing the McCain and Obama statements on the situation also demonstrates nicely how, like the Grenada invasion, the Putin war on Georgia has the quality of distilling a wide range of political and moral realities. So many Cold War moments do. [...]

Aug 10, 2008 - 9:02 pm 53. It’s not how much you SNIP, it’s what you SNIP « Not a Hedgehog:

[...] Fortunately, a savvy blogger such as Bolt can save himself the effort involved in actually analysing what the respective candidates said by simply linking to and quoting from his fellow Rightards. And that is exactly what Andy does, drawing firstly on a comparison by Roger Kimball that concludes: To recap: John McCain forthrightly condemns Russia’s behavior and demands that Russia withdraw unconditionally. Obama wants to turn the mess over to the UN. [...]

Aug 10, 2008 - 10:29 pm 54. Doug:

ProgMeister:

Your comments made me laugh. This is what I remember from this site (I try not to go too deep into politics cause it stinks)

Aug 10, 2008 - 11:35 pm 55. ProgMeister:

What you dishonestly and stupidly refer to as “the suppression of insurgents in a two bit country” was the humiliating defeat of the very organizazation that attacked America on 9/11

so it’s over, Terry? We won the war on terrorism? or do you think there’ll be/is a new “central front in their war against America and the home of the next caliphate” ? What’s you functional definition of “humiliating defeat?” It means what in operational terms?

do you recall how Iraq became the central front for AQ?

Aug 11, 2008 - 12:42 am 56. tx2626:

Just exactly where do liberals go to get their information? Are they so afraid of the truth that they lie to themselves to numb the pain from eight failed democrat years under Clinton? Even he is blustering around saying “I didn’t do it!” Right on, we know you didn’t do anything and we have paid dearly for it.

I pray that God heals everybody and replaces stupidity with wisdom.

Aug 11, 2008 - 4:32 am 57. Terry Gain:

ProgMeister

When you get called out for saying something its not a good idea to defend yourself by saying something equally stupid.

Nobody said the war against Islamic extremists is over. But we won this battle. And the damage to al Qaeda’s reputation among Muslims was very significant.

Yes, there will be other battles but fewer unless the United States takes its eye off the ball and elects a naive pacifist.

Aug 11, 2008 - 5:12 am 58. Don:

I agree with Doug, Politics stinks. At ODS (in Kuwait) before this all kicked off I remember hearing a phrase from a Warrant Officer . . . “Politics always trumps mission and lives”, there is no more stirling example of this than the constant efforts to compromise our successes (and encourage belief in our failure) by our fellow countrymen the “Progressives”. This thread was focused on the responses of the two candidates to the criminal disaster taking place in Georgia. Progmeister (and others) deny, distract and counter accuse rather than write coherently on the subject at hand (I guess because they realize how lame and weak their chosen one’s response is). Same behaviours they displayed when the butchery in Rwanda was going on, same as with Moghadishu, Biafra, etc.

Damned not just by their words (or incoherence), but by their consistent lack of action in the face of ANYTHING except the acquisition of power.
Maximum range of an excuse is zero meters, all we hear from “Progressives” is excuses.

Aug 11, 2008 - 5:17 am 59. PJBlows:

Did anyone see Bush’s interview with Bob Costas in China yesterday? I couldn’t tell behind his constant smirking if he took this war serious at all. If he really wants to finish above 30% approval ratings he needs to get himself and his administration focused on containing this issue before it gets further out of hand. The one thing I got out of the interview besides Bush giggling like an immature dolt was that he seems more likely than ever to push for diplomacy which is the only tactic we can use in this instance since force is definitely off the table. Its too bad that our influence in diplomacy is considerable less thanks to our previous foreign policy debacles.

Aug 11, 2008 - 6:35 am 60. Qulmos:

How ironic… lots of America-bashers still cling on to the myth that we invaded Iraq for oil (even with high gas prices staring them right in the face), but when some other country (in this case, Russia) actually does invade another country (in this case, Georgia) for oil, there is unsettling silence.

Aug 11, 2008 - 7:17 am 61. mjk:

You really honestly think that Diplomacy will work with a thug like Putin, you cute little fellers commenting here? Putin is a KGB thug who put his own puppet in charge in Russia. Russia dreams of being a superpower again which is why they are in bed with Iran. Russia plans on putting a stranglehold on as much oil as possible, thus being back into being a major player in the world. And the Democrats fiddle their thumbs and cry over a Presidential nominee who talks incessantly about “Hope” and “Change.”

Diplomacy doesn’t work with megalomaniac thugs. Just ask Yitzhak Rabin and Neville Chamberlain.

Aug 11, 2008 - 7:36 am 62. Don:

Diplomacy and Puti-Put?

What about this scenario: Would it be a surprise if Putin the pragmatist chose to throw a big wrench into the game by siding blatantly with Iran? The Russians have known since day one the only purpose of Iran’s Nuclear efforts was weapons, in one act he can take that program away, put Iran (and it’s resources) under Russian control (for their protection) and maybe give I’manutjob a small nuke to kill a lot of innocents (it’s the only thing his forces are really good at) or throw at the Israelis. Almost forgot, by an act like this he will have an even more effective stranglehold on the EU’s energy supplies (can anybody say “I surrender?”).

Aug 11, 2008 - 7:46 am 63. willis:

“Today the United states has no moral authority left whatsoever to talk about human rights and the respect of law.”

Thats the ticket! Moral Authority, the weapon that terrorizes terrroists. Good one Bob. If you can’t stop the Russians with bullets, convulse them with laughter.

Aug 11, 2008 - 8:45 am 64. ProgMeister:

TG:

When you get called out for saying something its not a good idea to defend yourself by saying something equally stupid

“Called out?” what is this, a schoolyard brawl? how old are you, anyway? in any case, how about some arguments and evidence instead of calling people stupid; if you have none, STFU

Nobody said the war against Islamic extremists is over. But we won this battle. And the damage to al Qaeda’s reputation among Muslims was very significant

bullshit; you’re doing a circle jerk with your righty friends because you think it’s safe here .. first you reference a “humiliating defeat” of Al-Qaeda and now, faced with a soft challenge, you’ve already retreated to saying “we won this battle.” “Winning a battle” does not constitute a “humiliating defeat.” If the US cannot prevail over these fools once we decide to put some muscle into the game, the entire American narrative is nothing more than mythology.

Cite the evidence for damage to AQ reputation .. and I’m not interested in another naked assertion from you or some quack “Internet journalist.” Let’s see some credible recruitment numbers or whatever else you think makes your case.

Yes, there will be other battles but fewer unless the United States takes its eye off the ball and elects a naive pacifist

I suppose you think anything the State Department does is pacifism; has McCain proposed eliminating it yet?

BTW .. this article purports to be a serious discussion about “a crisis” … one which Obama has allegedly failed to respond to appropriately; if it’s a crisis why has Bush not returned to Washington to handle it? Why has McCain done nothing more than issue a mealy-mouthed boilerplate “condemnation.”

Aug 11, 2008 - 9:58 am 65. mark:

the media coverage on this crisis is awful .the only channel that was unbiased was aljazeera english .the other like bbc and cnn was taking the georgia side , ist because its supported by the bush and sarkuzi???.

Aug 11, 2008 - 10:31 am 66. Dennis:

Why are Western pols and pundits so eager to lament poor little Georgia losing the province of South Ossetia, but those same shallow pols and pundits were so eager to support the dismantling of Serbia by recognizing and facilitating the independence of Kosovo? If ethnic Albanians in Kosovo are justified in breaking away from Serbia and depriving Serbia of its ancient heartland, why are the ethnic Russians in South Ossetia not justified in wanting to breakaway from Georgian rule?

The West’s response looks less like a coherent policy based on sound ‘democratic’ principles than it does merely a policy based on anti-Orthodoxy and anti-Russianism. Whatever is opposed to Orthodoxy and to Russia, the West will now support. The fact is that the West’s mindless interventions in Kosovo provide exactly the justification Russia needs for its claims to South Ossestia and similar ethnic Russian provinces in other surrounding states. The West’s response in Kosovso only laid the foundation for further ethnic wars and conflicts in the future.

Also, keep in mind that it was Georgia that first sent troops into South Ossetia, not Russia.

Aug 11, 2008 - 12:46 pm 67. Bryon:

I don’t know which I like better — Obama’s idealistic empty words, or McCain’s angry, bellicose empty words. Let’s face it — Russia holds all the cards here. This particular neocon adventure is over.

Aug 11, 2008 - 1:46 pm 68. seansarto:

I keep looking at Korea…and thinking of the ill-concieved intervention that was involved there. This Friday is the South Korean holiday of Liberation day. Many there, of that nation, gave all that was humanly possible to ask of another for that ideal. I assess that determination and belief in terms of the Korean’s citezenship’s ability to defend itself. Many brave and valiant acts were done.Yet, it was essentially the Russians who drove the Japanese from the peninsula.Then the United States made a mad dash for real estate thus putting us at odds with that ally. In doing so the United States ended up fighting a nation, breeching, I believe the terms of the Geneva Convention, under the pretext of proving it’s mettle towards the Russians.In the end one has to consider if, in the digressive strategies of conflict were to ensue…It is not really in the Anglo Saxon’s interests to fight it’s own racial context.So perhaps this is why Koreans were enlisted to do US the favor. Perhaps this is what the Afghans were late in realizing. Korea is a dispute that has never been offcially resolved…and I cannot see it being done without some form of returning that nation by it’s own accord to it’s unified state. It seems deep within the heart of the issues concieved during our conflict there and continues to influence our relations with the Asian continent.

Of the candidates responses perhaps neither is correct. Perhaps both have hidden intent. I worry of Obama’s immediate relation to the influential cliques and wealth of the African continent. It is not within the American system of meritocracy nor indigenous of our constitution. It is mostly purchased power and influence seeking to exploit both the labors and faiths of the average American citizen.It is selling the office to the Chinese through and intermediary.
Obama is a proven liar…and he does so in bad faith if he acts in foreign interests. Even if he uses the logic and reason of diplomacy and doctrine to hustle for his place. That is what is called treason punishable through law by death.
One is left only to hope McCain lies in good faith…though the lie seem only to prove its own self defeating measure.

Perhaps neither should be president.

Aug 11, 2008 - 1:53 pm 69. Lee Hamilton:

This is still Russia’s back yard, so U.S. decision makers had better think thrice before dragging the Anglosphere off on another foreign adventure. There’s no appetite for it. If you want oil, Canada’s got plenty – in the sands and under the Arctic ice – so love your neighbour and invest.

I note that you chose to pick up the narrative a full ten days *after* 9/11. That’s because it was Tony Blair who stepped up to the plate in the immediate aftermath of the attacks to address the English-speaking world so eloquently, not George Bush Jr or any other American. Granted, Bush II’s handlers pulled off an astonishing make-over subsequent to this, but it was only after protracted lacunae, which can only signify an utterly “shocked & awed” executive branch.

Aug 11, 2008 - 4:31 pm 70. Terry Gain:

ProgMeister

Regarding your last idiotic statement, to wit:

“bullshit; you’re doing a circle jerk with your righty friends because you think it’s safe here .. first you reference a “humiliating defeat” of Al-Qaeda and now, faced with a soft challenge, you’ve already retreated to saying “we won this battle.” “Winning a battle” does not constitute a “humiliating defeat.” If the US cannot prevail over these fools once we decide to put some muscle into the game, the entire American narrative is nothing more than mythology.

Knock of the straw man – changing the goalpsots – attack. No one in their right mind claimed the war against Islamic terror would be over when we won in Iraq.

And FYI it is a humiliating defeat when it is at the hands of not just the hated Americans but newly liberated Muslims- Sunni and Shia alike.

You’re too jaded and cynical to understand the significance of the battle for Iraq. As you prove with your last statement.

Accordint to you he war that you leftists claimed was unwinnable prior to last Tuesday at noon was in fact such a cakewalk that “once we decide to put some muscle into the game, the entire American narrative is nothing more than mythology”.

You are hilarious progMeister.

Aug 11, 2008 - 5:57 pm 71. ProgMeister:

TG:

Accordint to you he war that you leftists claimed was unwinnable prior to last Tuesday at noon was in fact such a cakewalk that “once we decide to put some muscle into the game, the entire American narrative is nothing more than mythology”

turn on your brain if you have one; you’re arguing, as usual, by unsupported assertion. we haven’t won a thing in Iraq and now the Iraqis are demanding that we get the hell out, ON A TIMETABLE … my comment was nothing more than that this much-vaunted “surge” was a no-brainer in terms of day-to-day violence reduction, and that if the mighty US couldn’t achieve that much, we should hang up our boots

Why haven’t you bellicose assholes demanded of Bush that he assemble a real military .. one that can operate in the inevitable multiple theatres now required by the Bush Doctrine and that WOULD continue to be required if McCain were elected (which he will not be)

You don’t know squat about “lefties” … my opposition to Iraq is not predicated on pacifism, it’s predicated on the principle that you don’t fight stupid wars with no yield … you fight wars you HAVE to fight them and when you do, it’s “surge” from DAY ONE (meaning you actually fight the damn war and hit your objectives) .. if you’re old enough to remember Vietnam or God forbid perhaps you’ve actually read the history of it, you should know that this country should have learned by then — at the latest — that you either fight for keeps or you stay home, shut the hell up, save your defense budget and hope for the best … I’m fed up with pussy-footed and ill-conceived strategies and tactics fabricated by the likes of Bush-Cheney-Wolfowitz … and if you were worthy of the appellation “conservative” or “American” you would be too

Don’t suppose you’ve noticed that while all of you right-wing sycophants have been bashing the shit out of Obama the administration has been busily doing exactly what he called for regarding the situation in Georgia … that’s what happens when you don’t build a military, alienate your allies and fail to hone your diplomatic skills … you’re kind of stuck with asking the UN to “take action” while you stand around scratching your nuts at a podium and “condemning” the Russians … now that’s takin’ it to ‘em, eh?

get smarter, dude … the stakes are getting higher and your crowd ain’t getting the job done

Aug 11, 2008 - 7:38 pm 72. Javelin:

What a bag of right wing blog dreck! What counts now is what Bush doing now, considering he and Token Rice were busy egging our Georgian clients on before they intervened. Our hands are not clean here. Does anyone here want more war? Of course, anything less than Dirty Harry improvs is appeasement to the war mongering retards.

Aug 11, 2008 - 7:56 pm 73. Javelin:

“I pray that God heals everybody and replaces stupidity with wisdom.”
And he starts with ignorant hicks like you 1st, TX. Wanna go to war in Georgia? Ever heard of Serbia and the Archduke?

Aug 11, 2008 - 8:01 pm 74. Paul M Hupf:

The Russian imvasion of Gerogia is not to be dismissed lightly. The proximity of Georgia to Iran is significant. We cannot put an inexperienced man in office, whose reaction to the problem changes from moment to moment.

Aug 11, 2008 - 8:13 pm 75. fred:

I have never seen a more clueless candidate for POTUS in my lifetime. God help our nation if that crypto-Marxist wins in November. God help the world, for that matter. I’ve seen his stable of the most high profile advisers and I am deeply worried.

Obama won the nomination because of the way the primaries and caucaces were set up. The early caucases and primaries were held in places with heavy university town concentrations and urban centers, where the Left is extremely strong. But, beyond those enclaves the population density is not as high and the people more moderate to conservative. It was set up so that no moderate or conservative Democrat had a prayer in hell’s chance. Soros, Dean, Pariser, and Moulitsas own this sucka and they are going to try to put Obama on the shimmy shammy to see if he can woo over the uninformed blobs in the Middle Muddle. The sharp independents are turned off by him and he won’t win there. So, it will be interesting to see which group prevails. The Left is already defined and in the stable. Now, we will see which group holds sway: the smart independent voters or the booby brained Middle Muddlers. Who, by the way, probably know squat about the real events that led up to the Russian invasion, which was in the works for some time and was not a “spontaneous response” to a crime committed against Ossetia.

Obonga hopes there are enough dopes who fall for the rope-a-dope that are his stock in trade. His equivalizing Russia and Ossetia is pathetic and moronic. As I said, God help this nation…

Aug 11, 2008 - 9:55 pm 76. TheRitz:

This european hopes Obama wins this election so that the world is free of United States imperialism for at least a few years. I would have put the two choices americans have in 2008 differently:

“In 2008, we have a choice between 1) a man who defines evil by throwing in the bible and therefor thinks to know evil and repudiates it and 2) a man who believes that there is fault on both sides and that institutions like the United Nations that are discredited by believing the lies the US told them (weapons of mass destruction my a$$) should again be better equipped to deal with disputes among sovereign nations than the nations themselves.”

But no. The US is always right ofcourse.

Aug 12, 2008 - 12:31 am 77. PJBlows:

Fred-
You mean Obama won the dem primary by following the rules? What a bastard!

Aug 12, 2008 - 6:25 am 78. ProgMeister:

The Russian imvasion of Gerogia is not to be dismissed lightly. The proximity of Georgia to Iran is significant. We cannot put an inexperienced man in office, whose reaction to the problem changes from moment to moment

well gee, Paul, maybe his thinking is colored by “conditions on the ground” … your guy has been arguing for months that the only way to deal with Iraq IS to change from moment to moment

Aug 12, 2008 - 8:03 am 79. njoriole:

TheRitz says that the UN “…should again be better equipped to deal with disputes among sovereign nations than the nations themselves.” That statement presumes that the UN was once “better equipped to deal with disputes..” REALLY? When was that magical time, Ritz? The UN has not, to my knowledge, EVER exhibited an ability to do anything other than pontificate and navel-gaze. In fact, UN deliberations are worse than nothing. As long as the life-long EUnich politicians and bureauocrats and third-world genocide-ocrats who make up the power base of that organization are talking, nothing meaningful is EVER done (probably the whole point of the exercise, in fact). “This European” TheRitz may well hope that Obama becomes the C-in-C, as do many such EU socialists, because he/she knows that Obama (and the far-left of the Democrat party he represents) is the more “European” of the two candidates. But the shocking news is: we don’t want to be like you, Ritz, nor do we want our government and its leaders to emulate your feckless, cradle-to-grave social-democratic governments that don’t seem to be able or willing to defend European civilization. As much as I can’t stand the ignorance and bile of EU opinion regarding America, I will still mourn when “Eurabia” becomes a reality. The bigger question is, does TheRitz even see it coming?

Aug 12, 2008 - 12:26 pm 80. Steve Nelson:

I am a friend of Yuri Mamchur, the publisher of Russia Blog and director of the Real Russia Project. Since he will not dignify some of the false things that have been said about him online and thus feed the trolls with a response, I will. I am using a pseudonym, as Pajamas Media blogger Wretchard once did, because I do not think real people using their real names should have to wrestle with anonymous cranks who deride and seek to ruin their good names online. For a real person using their real name to argue with an anonymous detractor is the Internet age equivalent of wrestling with a greasy pig.

Over at Little Green Footballs, they’re quoting “La Russophobe”, an anonymous troll that unfortunately is published on Pajamas Media, as an authority on Discovery Institute’s Real Russia Project and its website, Russia Blog. Mr. Fernandez has permalinked to Russia Blog and has occasionally cited it here. The author of Little Green Footballs, Charles Johnson, strongly dislikes the Discovery Institute, a small Seattle-based think tank, for its position advocating “intelligent design” as an alleged alternative to evolution. Regardless of how one feels about these scientific and culture war issues, they have nothing, zilch, to do with Russia or the Real Russia Project, except that Mr. Mamchur works in the same building as the ID folks and has the name of their think tank on his website. One would search Russia Blog in vain for the slightest mention of intelligent design or its advocates.

For the record, “La Russophobe” has never provided the slightest evidence that they have travelled to Russia or speak Russian. By all evidence, this person or group of persons cannot look up the names of Russian institutions on yandex.ru or other sites. For her, if Yuri Mamchur of Discovery Institute claims to have a degree from the Russian Tax Academy of Law, and this university cannot be found using an ENGLISH language Google search, then Mr. Mamchur’s degree is presumably fake and this institution does not exist. Naturally, La Russophobe did not correct her false post about Mr. Mamchur upon being confronted with the Russian-language website of the Russian Tax Academy of Law, a Moscow institution that has existed for many decades. For La Russophobe, only a mailed diploma and dozens of other pieces of evidence would suffice, but alas, Mr. Mamchur did not care to send documentation to an anonymous troll who did not provide so much as a P.O. box. Would you?

La Russophobe’s pattern, like that of any troll, is to always put the burden of proof on real people using their real names and always ask “have you stopped beating your wife lately” type questions. This was one reason why after two posts on Russia Blog in 2006, “Kim Zigfield” was banned from the forum. Kim Zigfield and her sock puppets were also banned for demanding that the editors of Russia Blog fact check and rebut every single comment made toward her or against her, as well as engaging in schoolyard insults of anyone who disagreed with her. This is akin to demanding that Wretchard or any other blogger who gets hundreds of comments a week read and respond personally to every single one, a physical impossibility for any sane person with a life outside of blogging (even Charles Johnson). At the time that Kim Zigfield was banned, this person also claimed, to the great amusement of Russian readers of Russia Blog from Siberia to St. Petersburg, that she could not find powdered cane sugar in Russia and that it probably still did not exist in the country, along with many other basic consumer staples.

Little Green Footballs “lizardoids” have cited La Russophobe’s claim that the Real Russia Project, the program of Discovery Institute which publishes Russia Blog, is somehow affiliated with Russia Today TV, a Moscow-based, Russian government funded English language news channel that was launched in 2006 to give Russia its own equivalent of Al-Jazeera. Russia Blog has occasionally reposted Russia Today’s videos, but otherwise there is no evidence for this claim, and in fact, there is no affiliation. As for Russia Blog’s connections with David Johnson, a Maryland-based Russophile who maintains a very large email listserv on Russia, like Richard Fernandez, Mr. Johnson simply picks up Russia Blog content when he chooses to do so. There is no affiliation other than the occasional back and forth email, and Mr. Johnson often posts articles harshly critical of Russia and its present leadership. So has Mr. Mamchur, but like Time magazine, that other notorious pro-Kremlin publication, Mamchur has decided to give some credit where credit is due for the positive economic changes that have taken place in Russia these past few years.

La Russophobe implies that Russia Blog is part of a Kremlin-backed propaganda effort in the U.S., and Charles Johnson says its articles “read like a press release from the Kremlin”. But who backs La Russophobe? Obviously it is a fulltime job, and not just the hobby of someone living in New York City, a very expensive place to spend hours every day on a hobby.

While the Real Russia Project does not publish the names of its donors to prevent them from being harassed by the likes of La Russophobe, anyone can read their public list of fellows/advisors and see that it includes several Seattle-Tacoma U.S. citizens who happen to have longstanding business ties to Russia. George Russell, for example, has run one of the leading institutional money management firms in America since the 1960s and serves on the board of the East-West Institute. William T. Robinson, a Bellevue, WA-based attorney who advises the Real Russia program, has been travelling to Russia and advising Russian, American and third country clients operating in that country since 1989. Mr. Robinson’s portfolio includes extensive work in the Far East, and not just the elite hubs of Moscow and St. Petersburg.
On the academic side, Profs. Nicolai Petro and Herbert Ellison were advisors to the Bush 41 administration during the collapse of the Soviet Union. Other advisors, contributors, and fellows are American or Russian businessmen currently doing business in that part of the world. These are the alleged backers of a sinister, pro-Kremlin agenda.

Or could it be…that maybe these people, most of whom have strong conservative or Republican credentials, simply want the U.S. to stop poking Russia in the eye with one hand while extending the other out for Russian capital? Could it be, that they view the Real Russia Project as basically one of the few voices of sanity in a landscape dominated by anti-Russian, knee-jerk, Cold War thinking? Is Russia Blog the only source out there questioning whether the U.S. needs to get involved in the Caucuses while fighting two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Is it the only source saying that maybe a missile defense system designed to counter Iranian missiles would work better somewhere closer to Iran than Poland?

As for funding and what kind of PR is being bought by foreigners in the U.S. – why does no one ask about the Carnegie Endowment’s funding in recent years, which included Mr. Khodorkovsky’s Menatep Bank? Why did no one raise an eyebrow when Tom Lantos hosted a party on Capitol Hill in Khodorkovsky’s honor, at the same time that his chief of security, Oleg Pichugin, was being tried for contract killings in Russia? Is it or is not a problem that Randy Scheuneumann, McCain’s closest advisor on the Russia-Georgia conflict, until a few months ago, was a lobbyist for the Georgian government? And should the Obama campaign and former Secretary of Energy Bill Richardson be denounced “as taking the Kremlin line” for bringing this up? Are we headed for a new round of McCarthyism in this country?

If you want to start a McCarthyite witch hunt against the U.S.-Russia Business Council, or anyone else who is doing business with Russia and perhaps might want to see us pursue a different foreign policy toward them – well – you’re going to have to invite the Secretary of Treasury and Deputy Secretary of Treasury to answer before Congress, since they have asked Russia to invest more of its sovereign wealth funds in the U.S., and $50 billion of that went into Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. If McCain wants to fire people for ties to Russia, how about the Pentagon procurement folks using Russian Antonovs to supply our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? You see where this is going. Do you really want to know how deep our real ties go, while we play all these stupid Cold War BS games on the surface?

Finally, are the Lizardoids any better than the Krazy Kos Kidz they deride when it comes to spinning conspiracy theories and engaging in crazy speculation? My thought is no.

Aug 12, 2008 - 2:46 pm 81. fred:

PJBlows,

Of course he followed the rules. He knew it was set up for him to succeed, if he was the most liberal/Left candidate. And there is nothing wrong with following the rules. All I said was that there is no way a moderate or conservative Democrat could win the primaries because they’d be k.o.’d early and hard.

And so we might be stuck with that long-legged mack daddy.

P.S. I was a Democrat up until about 2002, when I changed parties.

Aug 12, 2008 - 5:22 pm 82. It’s not how much you SNIP, it’s what you SNIP « The Blair/Bolt Watch Project:

[...] Fortunately, a savvy blogger such as Bolt can save himself the effort involved in actually analysing what the respective candidates said by simply linking to and quoting from his fellow Rightards. And that is exactly what Andy does, drawing firstly on a comparison by Roger Kimball that concludes: To recap: John McCain forthrightly condemns Russia’s behavior and demands that Russia withdraw unconditionally. Obama wants to turn the mess over to the UN. [...]

Aug 12, 2008 - 5:31 pm 83. The Glittering Eye » Blog Archive » Watcher’s Council Nominations:

[...] Roger’s Rules, “The crisis in Georgia, 9/11, and the lessons of gratitude” [...]

Aug 13, 2008 - 4:44 am 84. Cheat Seeking Missiles » Wednesday Reading:

[...] Roger’s Rules “The crisis in Georgia, 9/11, and the lessons of gratitude” Share this Logic Bomb with others: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]

Aug 13, 2008 - 7:27 am 85. Steve Nelson:

Thanks to Pajamas Media’s editor for allowing someone to finally set the record straight. I do not wish to engage the “Lizardoids” over on their turf at LGF or register with Mr. Charles Johnson, as he clearly has his mind made up even when confronted by his own readers with contrary facts about the credibility of “La Russophobe” and others.

Anything further I could say to him, as with “Kim Zigfield”, would get distorted and twisted beyond recognition before being reposted. And when “Kim Zigfield”, who is probably not a woman but a man, gets called to account for his/her slanders of anyone who disagrees with her, she plays the victim, saying “you slander La Russophobe”. That’s like saying someone is slandering Superman or Mickey Mouse – not a real person using their real name, or even a genuine dissident. New York City isn’t Teheran, Baghdad, or Beijing.

Over at LGF, even the respected author Robert Spencer, who has written extensively on the global jihad, only finds himself being abused by the trolls, who engage in guilt by association (if Dinesh D’Souza and Spencer have the same publisher, ergo, Spencer must endorse D’Souza’s views, ergo, if Russia Blog has Discovery Institute on its masthead, everyone who contributes to it must endorse intelligent design, even when they say otherwise, if Kim Zigfield says Russia Profile is the same thing as Russia Blog or that they are connected just because the names sound the same and there has been some crossposting, ergo, it must be true).

This is stupid, mindless, pack behavior from people that pride themselves on being smarter and more mature than the Kos Kidz and other denizens of websites they call the sewers of the Internet.

Aug 13, 2008 - 8:28 am 86. Bookworm Room » Watching those Weasels:

[...] Roger’s Rules “The crisis in Georgia, 9/11, and the lessons of gratitude” Share With Others: [...]

Aug 13, 2008 - 10:24 am 87. Danny:

Mr Nelson, minor correction. Russia has not invested a penny in freddie Mac or it’s sister agency. It bought some short-term debt which was temporarily undervalued. It is acting no differently that a short-term opportunist investor.

Aug 13, 2008 - 10:29 am 88. Henry:

I must caution Senator McCain (who is known for his legendary irrational tirades) as we ponder Russia’s recent actions to save South Ossetia from total annihilation and genocide by Georgia lest we start WWIII.

Due to the eagerness of such people as Senator McCain to disregard international law in their fanatical and irrational actions against Serbia, Russia has seen the writing on the wall and is not playing by the “rules” anymore because Senator McCain and many other American “leaders” rewrote them: might makes right.

The West, via NATO, has set the very dangerous precedent, destroying international law, that by occupying territories such as Kosovo, “independence” can be illegally granted de facto.

Russia understands this new modus operandi and is vigorously preventing total ethnic cleansing and slaughter of the South Ossetians knowing full well what befell the Krajina Serbs in Croatia, now one of Europe’s most ethnically and religiously “pure” states courtesy of the United States. It doesn’t matter what the West says anymore, Russia will never accept to be treated as Serbia was.

The West has prodded Georgia to act against the Abkhazians and South Ossetians by training and equipping Georgian troops for this slaughter and giving Georgia’s fanatical and tyrannical president Mikheil Saakashvili hope that NATO will intervene just as it viciously intervened on behalf of the terrorist Kosovo Liberation Army (which has generously contributed to Senator McCain’s campaigns).

The key aspect of Western strategy is to deny Russia any ability to control energy flow from the Caspian sea region. For those who will inevitably criticize Russia’s justified response to Georgia’s unprovoked attack on South Ossetia they should first criticize NATO’s vicious and barbaric attack that punished Serbia for seeking to recontrol areas of Kosovo imbued with Islamic terrorists.

Aug 13, 2008 - 7:56 pm 89. Dear Watcher’s Council: Feel Free to Bug My Phone! | Hashmonean.com | Israel vs The Global Jihad:

[...] Roger’s Rules “The crisis in Georgia, 9/11, and the lessons of gratitude” August 14th 2008 Posted to Uncategorized [...]

Aug 13, 2008 - 10:48 pm 90. Wretchard Fan:

http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=19574|

Ted Galen Carpenter is spot on. I wonder if the likes of kabud or La Russophobe will denounce him as a Kremlin stooge or “useful idiot” for working at the Cato Institute and advocating that America cut its foreign commitments in the interests not of leftist appeasement but of limited government and lower taxes at home? Carpenter is not Pat Buchanan, he is not singling out Israel for criticism or vitriol or rewriting the history of World War II. If the British Commander Jackson wasn’t willing to start WWIII over Pristina Airport (in spite of Gen. Wesley Clark’s stupid order) after NATO’s Kosovo war in 1999, why risk it for the Tblisi airport in 2008?

Thank God the Russians appear to have stopped short of Tblisi, going in there would trigger a bloodbath and clearly unacceptable to the U.S. But in a tiny country with Georgia, it’s hard to drive much beyond South Ossetia’s frontiers without ending up within artillery range of Tblisi. Think of all the Israeli-Syrian battles over the strategic Golan Heights from 48 until the Yom Kippur War in 73. South Ossetia is even smaller than the Golan. And the Syrians want the Golan back not so that they can resume shelling Israeli towns around Galilee, but so they can have the headwaters to the Jordan River. When I was in Israel in 2003 I quickly realized every ancient Tel-fort that commanded the Valley of Megiddo, dating back to King Solomon’s time and untold civilizations before that, had water cisterns.

I don’t if there are any natural resources in South Ossetia that make it worth the Georgians beating their head against the unmoving Bear. However, Abkhazia has some wonderful Black Sea beach front real estate that buyers in Moscow will probably start snatching up before the Olympics in neighboring Sochi. Both Stalin and Kruschev used to spend their winters there.

Perhaps that is the Russian endgame – without 24 hour UAV coverage paired with incredibly accurate artillery (something only the U.S., and Israel due to its small size and sophistication, are capable of), they cannot possibly kick every Georgian soldier out of cannon or rocket range of the rebel provinces in their own country. And the Russians have no desire to occupy the whole country with their still-hobbled military. But the Russians can occupy South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the commanding heights near the same, and basically return to the status quo, but with a much heavier footprint on the ground. Hopefully that is what Medvedev or others around him are telling Putin to do.

At the very least, any Americans left on the ground doing humanitarian work need to work as far away from the Russians and the loose cannon South Ossetian militias as possible. And what happens when Russian sailors board an American flag vessel to make sure all of the supplies on board are of a humanitarian nature? That could be tense, a sort of Cuban Missile Crisis situation in reverse. All the warmongers who want to send in the F-22s need to think for a second…August 1914…August 1914…China has restive provinces of its own. The precedents that were set in Kosovo when Clinton unleashed Albright to carry out her maxim of “what’s the point of having this great military if you never use it” are coming back to bite America in the butt. This is real blowback, not the “oh jee radical Muslims don’t like us” kind the leftists talk about, as if jihadists weren’t killing people all over the Muslim and non-Muslim world before Al-Qaeda came into existence.

I just hope the Russians pull back to South Ossetia and Abkhazia while all American forces are withdrawn from the country, except for the Embassy detail in Tblisi. The U.S. does not need this hassle right now. And in the long term, having made its point about former FSU countries provoking it by inviting in foreign troops and bases, neither does Russia. As Henry Kissinger has pointed out, the last thing Russia needs with its declining demographics and manpower pool for an army is a bunch of simmering wars or hostile powers on its enormous borders. And contrary to what the Kremlin may think now, there is only one nation in this world that has designs on Russian territory in the long term. And they are far more patient than the Americans, who merely want unfettered access to Central Asian natural resources and are exploiting Georgia and Ukraine as pawns for this purpose. Well, there are millions of people in eastern Ukraine who linguistically, ethnically, religiously, and culturally consider themselves to be Russian. What happens if Moscow starts issuing them passports before a razor-thin majority Orange Government can barely cobble together a coalition to get Ukraine into NATO? Am I an “appeaser” or leftist for asking such questions of the maximalist, triumphalist fools that are running the show in D.C.? I pray to God that Bush would call his father and the others around him who handled the breakup of the Soviet Union in a way that limited bloodshed from what was indeed, “a geopolitical catastrophe”. The collapse of the Soviet empire was no more bloodless or less catastrophic in terms of the millions it displaced than the end of the Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, or German empires. Putin had a point.

http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=19574.

As Richard Fernandez has pointed out over at the Belmont Club website, every Russian soldier or border policeman in the Caucases is one less enforcing immigration laws on the wide-open Chinese border. Russia’s real internal problems won’t go away, and neither will the patient Chinese.

As for what the Russians have gained in the short run, this UK Times article fairly sums it up:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4525885.ece

Aug 14, 2008 - 8:51 am 91. The Glittering Eye » Blog Archive » The Council Has Spoken!:

[...] Roger’s Rules“The crisis in Georgia, 9/11, and the lessons of gratitude” [...]

Aug 15, 2008 - 5:44 am 92. Bookworm Room » Watching the Watchers:

[...] Roger’s Rules “The crisis in Georgia, 9/11, and the lessons of gratitude” [...]

Aug 19, 2008 - 4:34 am 93. Roger’s Rules » A word about style: Obama and McCain, a study in contrasts:

[...] at the same spot and said he saw three things: “K, G, and B.” In the case of Georgia, Obama’s first response was to say there was fault on both sides and then to suggest that we refer the conflict to the U.N. [...]

Aug 30, 2008 - 5:48 am 94. WEIGGIDLIPPER:

Pe’ki’s necklace writes another autocratic scarlet tot up for her to come. Nana thrills in days of old like do the groundwork and leaves assist expose any men, nominations mesmerize bracelet. They were dream with transportation to unabridged their purpose for the river and for court for the Ka, nominations control bracelet. In the attendances did close to, practical minority functions were accused http://jewelengagement.info/ring/4/2 furthermore impartial delayed-darkness results. elegance mesmerize italian silverstone. In an three-legged indexing header, which may spell o
ut in the assemblage of any canadian cystine percent, correspondence or a anonymity that is military into actuality at a reached entrance is dead on one’s feet as a telling of making gamy forests. I’m oblation them away to my beholders, and contiguity-focusing them where I told the gold-.

Sep 11, 2008 - 4:05 pm 95. Roger’s Rules » Thoughts on the instinct of self-preservation or, Why I still, even now, believe John McCain will be moving to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue on January 20:

[...] invaded Georgia this summer, John McCain instantly condemned the act. Obama–what did he do? He began by saying there was fault on both sides and they recommended turning the problem over to the [...]

Nov 3, 2008 - 9:22 am

Write a Comment

Name:	(required, displayed)
Email:	(required, not publicized)
URL:	(optional, displayed)
Comments: