Megan McCardle expressed surprise at “just how little money you can raise by slapping a 5.4% surtax on incomes above a million.” She shouldn’t be surprised. After its orgy of irresponsible spending, the Obama administration is certainly going to have to find some way to raise money, especially since its economy crushing initiatives have drastically reduced tax receipts, a trend that most observers predict will continue.
But it doesn’t matter that increasing taxes on successful people will not bring in much dough. What matters is punishing success, not filling the treasury.
No one should be surprised at this. Whatever else you can say about Obama, he has never made a secret of his redistributionist philosophy. Economics for him is not about the creation of wealth. It is about 1) the redistribution of wealth and 2) penalizing those who have had the temerity to succeed.
I wrote about this during the campaign. In April of 2008, for example, I noted that when Obama talked about “fairness” he really meant penalizing success: “It is time for folks like me,” Obama told Rick Warren at the famous Saddleback Church event with John McCain, “who make more than $250,000 to pay our fair share.”
“Our fair share.” That is the Obama refrain. “[W]e will save Social Security for future generations by asking the wealthiest Americans to pay their fair share.” It’s a small step from the invocation of “our fair share” to Obama’s call for a tax on “the windfall profits of oil companies,” a tax increase on capitals gains, elimination of the tax on Social Security tax, etc., etc.
The crucial point here is that what Obama is interested in is not increasing but in promulgating redistributionist policies that make it harder for people to prosper economically. McGurn recalls Obama’s response to ABC’s Charlie Gibson when Gibson observed that raising taxes led to decreased revenues: “Well, Charlie,” Obama replied, “what I’ve said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.”
“For purposes of fairness”: that means, “for purposes of economic egalitarianism.” McGurn comments:
[I]t doesn’t really matter whether a tax increase actually brings in more revenue. It’s not about robbing from the rich to give to the poor. Robbing from the rich will do, especially if it’s done in the name of fairness.
Now there are good reasons Mr. Obama is not likely to pursue the revenue side of the fairness question. As this newspaper noted in a recent editorial, the latest data from the Internal Revenue Service does not show to Mr. Obama’s advantage. As we come to the end of the Bush administration, the top 1% of American taxpayers already pay 40% of all income taxes — the highest level in 40 years. The top 10% of income earners pay 71% of the taxes.
The bottom line is that when Obama invokes “fairness,” he wants us to feel guilty about economic success. This is the secret of his appeal to the socialistically inclined
Behind this redistributionist fantasy, I noted, is not only the rancid ideal of an egalitarian society. There is also a rage against success and the wealth that it brings in its wake. That rage is a prime emotional ingredient in the liberal worldview. James Piereson, in a memorable article for The Weekly Standard, gave it the perfect name: “punitive liberalism.” “From the time of John Kennedy’s assassination in 1963 to Jimmy Carter’s election in 1976,” Piereson writes,
the Democratic party was gradually taken over by a bizarre doctrine that might be called Punitive Liberalism. According to this doctrine, America had been responsible for numerous crimes and misdeeds through its history for which it deserved punishment and chastisement. White Americans had enslaved blacks and committed genocide against Native Americans. They had oppressed women and tyrannized minority groups, such as the Japanese who had been interned in camps during World War II. They had been harsh and unfeeling toward the poor. By our greed, we had despoiled the environment and were consuming a disproportionate share of the world’s wealth and resources. We had coddled dictators abroad and violated human rights out of our irrational fear of communism.
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135 Comments
1. Instapundit » Blog Archive » ROGER KIMBALL: Are We There Yet? Preparing for the Coming Tax-Revolt….:[...] ROGER KIMBALL: Are We There Yet? Preparing for the Coming Tax-Revolt. [...]
Jul 16, 2009 - 7:54 am 2. Bob:Never. America is dead…a nation of sheep who have watched and not cared what this fake American has done to the country.
We are no longer a people with the courage or determination to truly rebel.
Jul 16, 2009 - 7:59 am 3. Billy Beck:I’ll believe it when I see it. This is the land of the Eloi, now, and I believe they will walk through utter hell with pacific, blank grins on before the idea of freedom rises in this country again.
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:13 am 4. bsnss:“No one should be surprised at this. Whatever else you can say about Obama, he has never made a secret of his redistributionist philosophy”
you are right no one SHOULD be, but the only people not surprised are the small minority of us who do pay close attention. Your average person who voted for him had NO IDEA what he actually stood for. There were plenty of slip-ups, but the press quashed those and the only thing your average voter saw were the lies (yes lies) in his speeches and debates that did not sound redistributionist at all. He turned around and denied he meant any such thing after slipping up like he did with joe the plumber. some i know are definitely waking up and they are totally shocked. others still just don’t pay that much attention and still have no idea of the implications his actions and policies have. my fear is that no matter the line, the spending will already have been and will be so out of control that the set-point will be permanently changed.
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:41 am 5. Tom:It’s Invasion of the Nation Snatchers — the zombies are loose! I personally would love it if Obama moved to a country of his choice, rather than engaging in “transforming” the one that made his success possible. If he or any of his ilk have such strong negative feelings about being American, let ‘em get the heck out! That’s the change they need…
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:46 am 6. smitty:http://federalismamendment.com
Anyone with a better option?
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:52 am 7. BlogDog:There’s too much evidence for Billy Beck’s position for me to hope that essential liberties can be restored.
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:53 am 8. Strawman:You have to keep in mind that income taxes punish those who are trying to accumulate wealth. They don’t do anything to those who already have it. This isn’t rage on the part of the have-nots toward the haves. It’s toward the gettings. The haves skate by under the rage radar.
What’s really going on is that the haves (including, but not limited to old money) are beating back the upstarts by getting the peasants riled up. Is it any wonder that the senators from Mass are both flaming liberals? No skin off their noses. Not until hyperinflation set in, anyway.
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:56 am 9. Mick Kraut:Here is the fundamental problem. Obama and his ilk truly believe that my money is their’s and that if I earn more than an amount they deem to be appropriate that they are entitled to confiscate the “largess” and hand it to those they feel are more deserving. My wife and I live in the DC Metro area. I have a middle management role in a large corp and she owns her own company. We do OK for DC, but not rich by any stretch, that said we flirt with AMT issues every year.
From my tax bracket (top 5% of earners) 60% of all tax revenue is paid. 6 times higher than those in the bottom 50%. I can assure you that I dont get 6 votes in the booth…police and firemen wont arrive at my house 6 times faster if I need them…the bottom 50% pay 16.67% of what I do, yet enjoy all of the same benefits that I do.
For America to work for everyone there has to be an element of that and I understand and accept that. But to claim that I dont or the genuinely “rich” do not pay their fair share strains credulity.
I pay 6 times my fair share and frankly would rather be appreciated and not vilified. Success is not a zero sum game.
Obama believes that government needs to expand and control more elements of the economy. Not a recipe for growth or recovery.
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:57 am 10. joshlbetts:We’re there. Wait till September 12th.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:03 am 11. glenn:The tax revolt is well underway, you just can’t see it unless you look at tax reciepts. It’s being fought in accountants offices and across kitchen tables all over the country as the wealth generators re-visit their tax status and look for ways to keep more of what they create. It’s being fought in the growth of the underground economy. And unfortunately for a lot of people who might otherwise get hired it’s being fought every time some small businessman says to himself “Why should I expand? It’ll mean hiring people and dealing with a lot more complications in my life.”
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:07 am 12. Peg C.:My disgust with and complete lack of respect for Obama voters knows no bounds. This goes double for supposedly intelligent people like Megan McArdle and Ann Althouse. Utter idiots, truly.
If there’s a tax revolt I absolutely plan on participating. Starve the beast.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:08 am 13. Stacy:The thing is,those of us on the right are talk about tax increases as if they’ve already arrived, but that’s because we understand the connection. There haven’t actually been any tax hikes — yet.
Like cap-and-trade, the strategy seems to be to impose higher costs through regulation, and simultaneously to commit the country to huge levels of public spending that can only be sustained (for awhile at least) by confiscatory taxes. But the actual taxes have been kicked down the road, and it seems the debate has been postponed along with them.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:25 am 14. Trainwreck:When it comes to merit and money, the liberal philosophy is that this is a zero-sum game: those who are rich and intelligent have only reached that status by oppressing or stealing from others. If you notice, in some high schools, they want to ban honor rolls because they are “elitist” and hurt the self-esteem of underachievers, but an all-star sports team of top HS athletes causes does not even rate a protest. So from an early age, we penalize the overachievers and try to take their money in punitive taxes, but worship dumb jocks and celebutards who make millions.
As I see it, the American population can be seen as follows (embellished from a recent South Park episode):
25% are retarded and clueless
25% are fat (in the figurative sense) and lazy sheep, concerned more with following American Idol and looking for the next handout, with an extreme entitlement mentality.
25% are hard core leftists and their fellow travelers who want to usher in a socialist multiculti PC utopia
25% are the productive members of society with conservative values, patriotism, a work ethic, and a clear understanding of the dangers we face as a country.
Unfortunately, the left is much more adept at leading the masses of sheep and retards, and can tax the cr@p out of the productive members to continue to fund these masses with “entitlements” and keep them under control.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:36 am 15. Pistolpete:I refer to Randy Barnett and the Federalisim Amendment as provided for below. The States may call a convention and amend the Constitution aside from Congress. “..on application of 2/3 of the several states…”.
Article V
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:43 am 16. jake:The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.
Bill Beck says this and says that. (it’s all talk)
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:43 am 17. Pistolpete:The time is for action.
Let’s restore America to the way it was before the hippy dippy libs had their way with it.
Federalism, sorry.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:44 am 18. ErikZ:You can’t just upset the chessboard.
You need to have something ready to put in it’s place. If you’re revolting, then you’re taking responsibility for what comes next.
Haven’t had time to examine the tax code to do that. Flat Tax sounds like an easy replacement though.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:56 am 19. J Fred Mule:“Success is not a zero sum game.” Exactly. If wealth was static, we’d all still be living in caves. Wealth is produced. But far too many people seem to believe that the rich must necessarily have obtained their wealth at the expense of others.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:57 am 20. Rich:Strawman is right, think of Russia under communism. The ruling class had full stores and vacation places on the black sea and all the trappings of wealth, and most likely had that also. The ruling class here will structure it so they are in the same position. You can gain entry into their world by making mega-bucks but it is better if you already have mega-bucks. The key is having wealth or being in a political position to make it. Look at the Clintons, a couple of years ago when she was running for senate it was reported that they were worth over 100 million. How do you do that on a Presidents or senators salary?
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:05 am 21. J:Chris Dodd…resign NOW
For ypur involvement with Fannie and Freddie….resign NOW
For lying about AIG writing the insert on bonuses…resign NOW
For your sweatheart deal on a Countrywide Mortgage…resign NOW
For your pay for play Irish Cottage…resign NOW
Send a message to corrupt politicians in DC and in state governments…call for Chris Dodd’s resignation NOW.
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:18 am 22. Jack’s Newswatch » Blog Archive » DEM HEALTH RX A POI$ON PILL IN NY (5):[...] 1:22 pm EDT, July 16th, 2009 — Kimble: Preparing for the Coming Tax-Revolt [...]
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:23 am 23. Claude Hopper:A cohort of recent graduates have been indoctrinated by our educational system (k-12, undergraduate and graduate) to believe that the US has been and still is an evil nation driven by greed. In the past we could recover from economic distress by relying on the drive and ingenuity of the citizenry. No longer. Those citizens have retired or passed, leaving talkers rather than doers. That combined with the rising international competitiveness dooms the US to second class falling to third class status. Our educational system has a primary function to prepare our youth to be productive members of society. In that, it is clear that our educational system is a failed institution.
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:24 am 24. State Budget Crisis « holisticsurvivalguide.com:[...] reading: Are We There Yet? Preparing for the Coming Tax-Revolt Share and [...]
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:25 am 25. MarkJ:Bob,
“Never. America is dead…a nation of sheep who have watched and not cared what this fake American has done to the country.”
Well, Bob, what’s stopping you from tying a stone around your neck and jumping from the nearest bridge? In the meantime, get out of the way and let real patriotic men and women show you the meaning of courage.
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:36 am 26. PersonFromPorlock:Re: smitty@6:
Anyone with a better option?
A federalism Amendment seems like a good idea but the one at hand suffers badly from bloviated prose: The author tries too hard to make it sound ‘constitutional’. Also, it has a few structural defects: restricting the commerce power to activities not “confined within a single state,” for instance, simply begs for Congress and the Court to abuse the word ‘confined’.
IOW, good try but no cigar.
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:39 am 27. Pete:When I saw that Berlin speech I thought Americans would never fall for that garbage, but I now believe the America I grew up in is gone.The sad thing is there is no place to go to avoid this coming catastrophe. Eat,drink and be merry!
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:45 am 28. Detention Won’t Change a Delinquent « Temple of Mut:[...] Kimball: Are We There Yet? Preparing for the Coming Tax-Revolt. I would like to answer this question: When the founder of one of the largest Tea Party groups is a [...]
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:50 am 29. Mutnodjmet:Roger: I would like to answer your question.
When the founder of one of the largest Tea Party groups is a Democrat, the answer is – Yes, we are there.
http://templeofmut.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/detention-won%e2%80%99t-change-a-delinquent/
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:51 am 30. joe:I live in italy, I don’t what she’s talking about mentioning italy at the end.
45% payroll tax plus 9% tax for the health system means that if I have an option to work more to make more money, I don’t take it.
I think in the past it was easier to avoid taxes here, but now people are manic about receipts, stamps on receipts, etc.
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:58 am 31. UrbanGrounds | Getting Ready to Go Galt:I’d say there is less of a black market than there is in the usa.
[...] Rogers Kimball writes: But it doesn’t matter that increasing taxes on successful people will not bring in much dough. What matters is punishing success, not filling the treasury. [...]
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:59 am 32. Pajamas Media » Preparing for the Coming Tax Revolt:[...] Read the rest of the story here. [...]
Jul 16, 2009 - 11:03 am 33. Dana H.:This article exposes the naked evil at the root of the philosophy of altruism. Obama merely espouses a more extreme and less apologetic version of this philosophy than his predecessors. It’s not about sacrifice for the sake of some alleged beneficiary. It’s about sacrifice as an end in itself — in this case, sacrifice of the producers, never mind that this means less wealth to seize and redistribute.
Jul 16, 2009 - 11:18 am 34. SenatorMark4:Better options, Smitty? I don’t know why we’d insist on more legalese to try and solve the problems we have here and now when the greatest and most succinct documents are being totally ignored as it is. Equality under the law can be totally ignored by the government at it’s whim. Law? Ditto.
There are just few policies that would make it easier for us to take back our country and neither the Republicans or Democrats are interested. Bill of Rights amendments:
“No law shall be passed from committee for any vote on the floor of Congress unless the entire contents have been released to the public by global means, eg. internet, for a time no less than 7 days and starting on Monday.” If we are going to be a government of the people we must be able to review our laws before they are enacted. If you pick any other time frame you know we’ll have a rash of bills come in on any three day holiday.
“Representatives of the people are required to make decisions and must record a Yes or No vote on any legislation spending public funds”. Obvious.
“No grant, loan, lease, or other financial transaction assisting a foreign government or it’s people may be made unless they elect their taxing body every two years in a free and fair election. Congress must have a recorded vote noting their belief that this amendment has been met for at least three years before any bill may be submitted to assist any foreign governmen or its people.” Tax is power. Power should reside in the people. It really is time that we start spreading freedom and not picking the best of the worst.
“Any government grant of a financial benefit must be recorded and reported in the same fashion as any financial transaction between employer and employee meant specifically to include all limitations and exclusions.” Since the San Francisco drunk can receive $300 per month without getting an IRS Form 1099 then so should your children and your employees. Food stamps? Sure. Welfare. Sure? And this could happen if any governor just started doing the reporting. Imagine the outrage it would cause but what would they say?
Principle is nice but policy is what drives politics. You can’t just stand in the way and shout “NO”! By nationalizing the next election on policy issues such as this the election would be a bright line. Or not. Baaaaahhhhhh.
Jul 16, 2009 - 11:22 am 35. Victor Erimita:When will Obama cross the line? He crossed it before he took office, when he tried to start operting as presidnet before he was sworn in. He has crossed it every day since by lying about his intentions, his actions and his rationales, and by illegally seizing corporation, circumventing bankruptcy laws, attempting to sign treaties without the Senate, appointing 30 “czars” to rule over anything and everything, and on and on and on. The question is not when Obama will cross the line, but when the lazy, dimwitted voters will wake up and realize what they have done to themselves. I am not optimistic about that. The American voters have clearly demonstrated in the ladt 18 months that they wilkl think, do and say as the supposedly dead MSM tell them.
Excellent article, but my one quibble is the term “punitive liberalism.” There is nothing, repeat nothing, liberal about today’s Left or todays Democrats. They are radical Marxists, driven by rage, hatred and contempt of everything America is and stands for. They are gleefully destroying it as fast as ever they can before the sheeple wake up. It’s over, friends.
Jul 16, 2009 - 11:30 am 36. Pistolpete:I agree with #26, badly bloviated constitutional prose. However, it is a jumping off point rather than the finished product. The concept is valid – the several States may call for a convention to propose amendments to the Constitution. if you go to:
http://www.federalismamendment.com/
and follow the discussion you will see some well founded expressions of change we could all agree to.
Jul 16, 2009 - 11:34 am 37. Blarty Blarckleblart:I thought y’all’s little tea parties were going to solve everything. You mean they didn’t?
Jul 16, 2009 - 11:36 am 38. Reformed Trombonist:Why is it that the people who believe in redistributing wealth don’t have a problem with making a lot of money themselves? For the cost of the One’s date in NYC with Mrs. One, I could retire on a nice piece of waterfront. He’s been dining sumptuously, throwing expensive parties (the expense, of course, is all ours, not his)… and what? He thinks *my* wealth needs to be redistributed?! To maintain *fairness*?
Why is his money and lifestyle immune?
Jul 16, 2009 - 11:44 am 39. Billy Beck:“Bill Beck says this and says that. (it’s all talk)
The time is for action.”
Hey, Jake: I haven’t even touched an income tax form since 1977, much less sign my name to one or actually send this government one thin dime of what I produce. Can you think why? It’s because I saw all of this a long time ago. I don’t work for thieves. I’ve wrecked my career over it (it’s very difficult to find anyone who can pay me for what I do), I don’t own anything worth their threatening me with prison over (which is probably good for them because in a cell I could finally give up trying to live and concentrate on an attempted American “Gulag Archipelago”), and I am just about universally known as a kook.
Everyone can think what they will, but I have done my best, my whole adult life, not to lend my hand to this monstrosity. Observe Mick Kraut: “Here is the fundamental problem. Obama and his ilk truly believe that my money is their’s and…” {whack}
“Obama”. Look: I’m fifty-two years old and the United States government has “believ[ed]” that (so far as we can ascribe “belief” to an abstract conceptual entity without consciousness) for all my lifetime and a lot more. Please pay attention:
I very rarely cite Ayn Rand, for a couple of reasons. One is that the mention of her name is most often a bomb lofted into any discussion and just about guaranteed to blow things up. The other is that my own integrations of her concepts are good enough for my own words. However, there has never been a clearer way to put this:
“Political economy was, in effect, a science starting in midstream: it observed that men were producing and trading, it took for granted that they had always done so and always would — it accepted this fact as the given, requiring no further consideration — and it addressed itself to the problem of how to devise the best way for the ‘community’ to dispose of human effort.”
(“Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal”, 1966, New American Library, Part I, “Theory And History”, ch. 1, “What Is Capitalism?”, p. 4)
Anyone who cannot see this premise as far back as, say, Roosevelt, is simply not competent to attend this dicussion.
We are where we are because Americans have not guarded their freedom, of which individual economic sovereignty is a necesarily implicit element. Only slaves produce under the threat of force, and that’s what generations of people in this country have been doing.
There is no suprise in the facts of this ethics and politics coming to these straits.
And I beg you, sir: do not snipe at me about “action”. I have lived the whole life.
To the rest of you: this will stop when you stop feeding it.
I know the trades requisite in the project. All I can tell you is that what you might give up today is nothing compared to what you will lose tomorrow if you don’t stand up right now.
Jul 16, 2009 - 11:52 am 40. Fairbanks99:I have read a lot of articles on this and other websites about it “being over”. I must disagree. While we are approaching a point at which the ballot box may not be able to restore America, there are other options. Those options will come into being with a complete collapse of the financial system, for example. The American Revolution of 1776 did not happen with words only.
Jul 16, 2009 - 11:59 am 41. Two--Four:[...] [...]
Jul 16, 2009 - 12:02 pm 42. Trouble:The banks could start the revolution right now. Acually, all it would take would be one manager at one bank to light the fuse:
“I am sorry, but this bank will no longer honor checks drawn on or post direct deposits made from the Federal treasury. We do not accept checks or post deposits from entities known to be insolvent. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.”
Jul 16, 2009 - 12:03 pm 43. bibio44:‘Megan McCardle expressed surprise at “just how little money you can raise by slapping a 5.4% surtax on incomes above a million.”’
The McCardle article you link to in no way supports this statement.
“But it doesn’t matter that increasing taxes on successful people will not bring in much dough. What matters is punishing success, not filling the treasury.”
Even for Roger Kimball, this is a silly statement.
#33: “This article exposes the naked evil at the root of the philosophy of altruism.”
Ooooh, somebody’s read a very big book by You-Know-Who.
Jul 16, 2009 - 12:29 pm 44. Blarty Blarckleblart:40 Fairbanks99
While we are approaching a point at which the ballot box may not be able to restore America, there are other options…The American Revolution of 1776 did not happen with words only.
You speak in riddles. Would you mind elaborating on your vision for America’s future?
Jul 16, 2009 - 12:44 pm 45. Say What?!?:“All political power comes from the muzzle of a gun”
You can have any laws you can imagine, but the only laws that will be enforced are those that the politicians want enforced. Amendments to the constitution? What a joke. Deck chairs.
The reason that a tax revolt is necessary is because the politicians have purchased enough votes to not have to ignore anybody who might object. Now they’re coming back for more. What are you going to do about it? Protest? Ha!
Jul 16, 2009 - 1:36 pm 46. Punitive liberalism » Cold Fury:[...] Roger Kimball) Leave a [...]
Jul 16, 2009 - 1:46 pm 47. Delia:If 0bama has his way, I don’t think there will be a whole lotta ‘money’ to tax us on anyhow.
Going GALT is looking more and more like the only solution.
Jul 16, 2009 - 2:39 pm 48. Tcobb:PersonFromPorlock writes:
Jul 16, 2009 - 3:07 pm 49. Michael:A federalism Amendment seems like a good idea but the one at hand suffers badly from bloviated prose: The author tries too hard to make it sound ‘constitutional’. Also, it has a few structural defects: restricting the commerce power to activities not “confined within a single state,” for instance, simply begs for Congress and the Court to abuse the word ‘confined’.
You are correct. The main reason we got to the pathetic state we are in today is because of the Federal Courts. What is also needed is a mechanism to get rid of Supreme Court Justices whose rulings contravene the plain meaning of the words of the Constitution. I would think that when say, 60% of the State Legislatures pass resolutions against a particular Supreme Court decision then all of the Justices who voted in favor of that decision would be stripped of their positions immediately.
I believe you are dreaming that some great tax revolt will happen.
Not that I wouldn’t welcome it – the sooner the better. I’d love a general political revolution – marching in the street to beat back the Liberal Tyrants.
For this is what they are. Punitive Liberalism is a nice euphamism. They are tyrants – totalitarian in the bones of their bones. To call them fascist is to grossly understate their demonis ambitions.
These people are set on the destruction of America and that is what they will do.
That war is already lost. Its major battles were weaged in the courts, in the entire school system (comeplete and total vistory over the good, true and intelligent there), in Dem legislatures everywhere for 40 years, in the MSM, and in the general culture of PCism.
But the main thing is that most Americans no longer have the will to fight. More importantly – nearly all of them are too ignorant to fight. They’ve no real education. A very few maybe. That’s all.
The rest are like all liberals – dumbed down, dumbed all the way down. They don’t even know why they should oppose anything any one in authority tells them. They’ve no intellectual, moral or spiritual grounding at all to speak of. They’ll support twhat they are told to support. They’ll do what they are told to do.
Period. If you think otherwise you are dreaming and deluding yourself.
The battles were fought and lost ages ago.
Welcome to Animal Farm buster. The Pigs are in charge and that is just the way it’s going to be.
Michael
Jul 16, 2009 - 3:09 pm 50. Roderick Reilly:Bob, BillyBeck and BlogDog:
If the American people are ALL “sheeple,” how do you explain your existence?
It only took a committed one third of the American colonists to create a new country and drive out the British.
Jul 16, 2009 - 3:20 pm 51. billslayer:37. Blarty Blarckleblart:Did you believe your little messiah was going to solve everything, hmmm? I know you’ve got buyers remorse! You should have read the fine print. So here’s a hint;When the packaging on your next little ken doll says “Little Barry got his start on his knees in front of a big ol mean slum lord, won’t you give him a home?” DON’T VOTE FOR HIM. Just a thought. Have a swell day;)
Jul 16, 2009 - 3:25 pm 52. Ron Good:To Erik Z re:
“You can’t just upset the chessboard.
You need to have something ready to put in it’s place. If you’re revolting, then you’re taking responsibility for what comes next.
Bull. If I feel like upsetting the chessboard, I will, if and when I want to.
I can absolutely just quit or trash the game, at*my* prerogative. After all, I was forced to play in the first place and I certainly don’t owe a “stable chessboard” to cheaters, or onlookers betting on the outcome.
In the meantime, if you depend on the State for your livelihood or protection, then *you* get your keepers to behave.
Jul 16, 2009 - 3:26 pm 53. Roderick Reilly:The stupidest thing about Oabama’s “taxing the rich” is that he’s applying the same marginal tax rate on those who make $250 thousand as he will on Bill Gates. With the health care surcharge, people of $1 million and above incomes will pay even more, but still, the SAME marginal rate across a several thousand-fold range of incomes? How “progressive is that? Ironically, this will mean that Obama will redistribute wealth UPWARDS, rather than downwards as he claims he wants, because:
1) The downwardly distributed income will only be consumed, and NOT saved and invested as the earner him/herself would have done (thus depleting America’s savings and lending pool of “real money” dramatically at a time when public debt is skyrocketing), and,
2) Some of those people in the $250K category intend to move up even further, as they are ambitious, resourceful entrepreneurs. But, with their ambitions thwarted by having a big chunk of their income taken away, other Americans much richer than them won’t have to worry about competition from “new money” rising from below. Essentially, a return to feudalism. By the way, is everyone aware that a majority of the super-rich are now Democrats? What a great deal for them, huh?
3) A majority of people in the $250K bracket are only recent arrivals to that income level nearing the final years of their careers. Their average earnings over their lifetimes are much, much less than $250K. Their dreams will be greatly reduced, as will those of their offspring. Imagine how it feels to be demonized as “rich,” when you spent most of your working life climbing up to that modest height from humbler origins?
Jul 16, 2009 - 3:36 pm 54. Billy Beck:“If the American people are ALL ’sheeple,’ how do you explain your existence?”
In my own case, the first authentic patriot I ever knew took care to teach me about freedom at an early age. That man was my father.
I was blessed. And I am an anomaly now.
Jul 16, 2009 - 3:42 pm 55. Gaffe Prices:“But it doesn’t matter that increasing taxes on successful people will not bring in much dough. What matters is punishing success, not filling the treasury.”
While 0bama and his kleptocrats have their hands deep in the cookie jar, they portray themselves as the bold courageous slayers of the golden goose, who they still expect to produce their loot.
Kinda like OJ, after he’d made his point, expecting passive compliance and respect to follow.
Jul 16, 2009 - 3:47 pm 56. Sebastian Shaw:Class warfare eventually eats itself;if given the chance, unbridled liberalism kills the goose that lays the golden eggs. The backlash begun long before President Obama gained the office, but the backlash has been fed enough sustenance to give the clueless Obama more than a mild whiplash when the dust settles. He will be revealed for the fraud he is. He will crack.
Jul 16, 2009 - 3:50 pm 57. Michael:The basis of America is the freedom of equal opportunity. There is not and never has been and never will be a guarantee of equal outcome.
As in all governments that have tried such things the reality is that politicians exempt themselves from all such foolishness. If they beat down the people by their trickle up poverty they will stillube like the Chinese and Russians of the USSR who lived like royalty.
Nothing new. Al Gore – do as I say, not as I do. (And make me rich as Crosus)
Jul 16, 2009 - 3:58 pm 58. Wolla Dalbo:I believe that even if you just didn’t tax, but confiscated outright all the wealth of the wealthy as Obama currently defines them, you still could not pay for the spending or pay off the debt that Obama & Co. wants to saddle us with, which tells me that their definition of who is “wealthy” will be slowly, incrementally, expanded downward to include more and more productive wage earners.
I mean this is just stupidity 101. Why vote for and, then, put up with a bunch of leftist ideologues, intent on wrecking this country and your life for their own ideological satisfaction?
Jul 16, 2009 - 4:47 pm 59. Deep Brain Diarist:Ah, yes. The call for “revolution,” made by frightened, small, ignorant people. Overthrowing the government because you detest the results of democracy. Patriots, one and all.
The fake Americans are the ones who regurgitate this nonsense.
Jul 16, 2009 - 4:59 pm 60. Al Reasin:#2 Bob: Not all Americans are dead! The Harford Tax Revolt Coalition in Harford County, MD has decided to picket Rep Kratovil’s Bel Air, MD office at 202 S. Main Street on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 from 4 pm until 6 pm. They are also considering additional picketing and others are also considering an extended peaceful picketing effort in July. I have done this on my own initiative for a week at a US Senator’s regional office and at Mr. Kratovil’s Bel Air office for 3 days. Now the local TEA Party organization is picking up where I left off.
I am hoping, Bob and #6 Smitty, that more Americans will follow these peaceful tactics of MLK to be proactive rather than reactive against our spend and tax congresspeople.
Jul 16, 2009 - 6:03 pm 61. Kolchak:We need a confiscation tax. Anyone who has over 10 million dollars must give it up or it will be seized by the IRS. This includes assets such as houses and yachts. I am tired of taxing us to death by 1000 cuts. Just get on with it Obama. Take it all away. I love to watch rich people whine when they lose their Bentleys.
Jul 16, 2009 - 6:09 pm 62. Brandy Francis:Ok, I am just now getting interested with this stuff…..I use to say whatever happens..happens!!! But i’m not understanding….what exactly are we in for??…What is it that should be expected????
Jul 16, 2009 - 6:21 pm 63. Meryl:The government doesn’t have any money.
That’s why they keep taking ours.
Jul 16, 2009 - 6:34 pm 64. AThinkingPerson:I think it says a lot about the state of the nation when there ARE Tea Parties in the first place. It says we’re willing to organize, speak out and be heard. To me it’s only the beginning, not an isolated event. When people feel empowered to speak out (which the Tea Parties helped to bring about), more will feel compelled to do so.
Witness our local moonbat Blarty trying to downplay their importance with his derogatory “y’all’s little tea parties”. Why would he even bring them up if they didn’t get under his skin a bit. In other words, they’re WORKING! Thank you Blarty for being the moonbat to highlight this fact for us. We needed confirmation of their value and you grunted out your comment at just the right time!
We must continue to speak out in the face of loonacy coming from the administration, the Congress and the moonbats. If we shut up (as they’d love for us to do), we’ll be as guilty as they are for ever allowing a Carter II situation to occur (which is underway as we speak).
Jul 16, 2009 - 6:42 pm 65. Linda:12. Peg C.:
“My disgust with and complete lack of respect for Obama voters knows no bounds. This goes double for supposedly intelligent people like Megan McArdle and Ann Althouse. Utter idiots, truly.”
Add Doug McIntyre and Al Rantal, conservative radio hosts in Los Angeles. Their admission of voting for Obama sickened me. Now when they cry and rail about the state’s current financial woes, it rings hollow.
Jul 16, 2009 - 6:43 pm 66. buddy larsen:bib @ 43;
re <i…this is a silly statement –may i ask how so?
Re Ooooh, somebody’s read a very big book by You-Know-Who –may i ask, is this an attempt at ridicule?
Jul 16, 2009 - 7:01 pm 67. John Frary:I seem to remember that Gunnar Myrdal at the end of his life moaned that Sweden had become a “nation of tax” cheats. And I also seem to remember that the IRS has estimated that $600 billion is lost to evasion every year.
I’m certain I remember the answer recieved from a professional tax resolution specialist when I asked him in a public lecture to estimate the percentage of people receiving a cash income who reported it all—”somewhere in the single digits.”
The tax revolt has been going on for some time.
Jul 16, 2009 - 7:07 pm 68. buddy larsen:Council of Economic Advisers chair Christina Romer, starting back in February, has been publicly swearing that every dollar of ’stim’ will create a dollar fifty of GDP.
If that’s so, then why don’t we go ahead and make the stimulus, oh, say, five trillion?
But even in lieu of that, If Ms Romer is telling the truth and the admin has found this money secret, why play with fire and alter any part of the virtuous circle? Wouldn’t the admin then just avoid the political-capital burn, not tamper with success, and leave the current system pretty much alone to pile up those taxable stim dollars-fifties, and not only obviate the need for any new taxes at all but be able to actually cash-flow entitlements –for as far as the eye can see?
But this would be contingent on Obama’s Council of Economic Advisors chair telling the truth.
Since clearly she is not doing that, one wonders if the admin’s support is coming from any place beyond its own direct patronage payroll.
Jul 16, 2009 - 7:28 pm 69. Eric:It is crucial that America takes a look at the entire system of money creation and control in this country, and by default the world, as the dollar is currently the main reserve currency. The urge to engage in tax revolts is understandable, but what happens after that? What is the solution?
People are just too uninformed about how our monetary system operates in general, but productive bills like the “Audit the Fed” HR 1207 and S 604 are a step in the right direction to get people seeing what is really going on causing these destructive, artificially inflated business cycles. These are in danger of being cast aside by the political elite because they know that the concepts driving their existence are above the heads of the typical citizen.
Perhaps once the abuses of these fiat currency machines are revealed, effective solutions can be considered, rather than the futile argument between taking the bigger or lesser Keynesian approach to “stimulating” the economy to groom the next bubble to burst in the next few years.
Jul 16, 2009 - 7:29 pm 70. DanRampage:Its no surprise that ‘punitive liberalism’ is evident in everything Obama does – it syncs completely with the black liberation theology he practiced at his church for over 20 years.
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:12 pm 71. Jeffrey:When the money runs out for states, cities and towns as it is in some places then you’ll see some excitement from the dependants of these governments, hell they may even eat their own. They won’t just say, “crap the free ride is over” they have a right to that job,they think. Of course we decide to employ Fire and Police departments and other such necessities for obvious reasons but all governments everywhere are bloated with a lot of useless positions. Where I live one can just drive around in the daytime and see lots of city vehicles driving around being “really productive” doing God knows what, burning gas I guess. There are so many people living off of tax payer largess it seems impossible but there they are every day. The city vehicle fleet is huge for a city of 90k. Sometimes city workers will gather for a project that seems to take forever to finish when a private company would have had the incentive to get it finished quickly. No such need here.
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:14 pm 72. PD Quig:When I see this city’s payroll start to shrink for real then I will know that change is in the air. Until then it’s all talk and scare tactics from the politcos. Meanwhile my property taxes keep going up. While I’m willing and able to pay my taxes government has no incentive to change. It’s a self defeating system and will eventully collapse of it’s own weight but not until it has destroyed life as we know it. My conclusion; times just ain’t tough enough yet. Somehow the city government just keeps growing and spending working on projects it can’t afford. When things do get tougher around here there will be huge migrations to places where there is food grown and warmer weather and virtual ghost towns left behind.
Protect what you love forget the rest. Good luck! Tougher times are coming.
I’d rather open a book on when the first pitchfork skewers a deserving politician. Maybe just an old-fashioned tar and feathers suit.
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:23 pm 73. jw:Barack Obama and his wife not only live high on the hog now, but they did so in Chicago.
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:52 pm 74. Delia:The scum of the earth who have never worked a day in their life will be the first to ‘revolt’ when their ‘freebies’ run dry.
If I were a scientist observing this shit sammich under a microscope, I guess this might be fascinating and even somewhat ‘entertaining’.
For me? It sickens and saddens me. I don’t find one bit of this ‘funny’ or ‘entertaining’. I’m terrified.
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:57 pm 75. ashok:I would not be surprised if the “tax revolt” didn’t happen: the “punitive liberalism” discussion does a good job of describing a set of symptoms, but it doesn’t get anywhere near the real cause. It pretty much goes in the direction of calling liberals small-minded and petty, and stays there. – Yay, thanks for telling me yet again that there are people who hate America. -
I think a better accounting of why some people are so willing to tax others has to start with the success of the logic of faction. We are divided into factions, spread out all across the country, and all of us have our private property. That last element became a way of creating walls to block out others’ concerns. American liberalism recognizes the “rights” but only tacitly nods to “We the People:” the “people” are only creations of identity politics, and again, I challenge you to find a real argument from the Founders themselves that would put an to the logic of “give me more and don’t stop, I don’t need to be sensitive to another unless they have the votes.”
I mean, I’m not blaming the Founders: this system works when we’re grateful. But gratefulness is a lot higher than taking what you can get, or just saying all liberals want to do is punish others. I love conservatives, but I have no doubt that they’re in no position to govern well either, just that I like the policies they have on paper more. When everything is materialism – “get it for me from the government,” or “look, the free market gets me more money” – there is no room for statesmanship, or unity as a people.
For more: Some thoughts on the 1st paragraph of Federalist 10
Jul 16, 2009 - 8:59 pm 76. Delia:The ‘Twinkie and Ding-Dongs’ are really peeved off about now.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:05 pm 77. NCBob:You guys may have a problem, but I know how to deal with democrats. My interests will do OK if I can only determine who is the best person to persuade to support me. Which democrats is most deserving of my bribe, kickback, payoff or payment? Do I go to the local democrat Congressman, his relative, his campaign fund, a presidential czar or the tried and true, member of the Congressional Black Caucus.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:25 pm 78. antaine:Democrat Congressmen are corrupt, dirty and will do whatever they are bribed to do. The only question is, once they accept payment, will they follow through or change course if some other criminal offers them more?
every time I hear about a federalism amendment or a bill of federalism it involves an article 5 constitutional convention. In the current climate that would be a DISASTER since we’re outnumbered. It would become a socialists’ free-for-all to really word the constitution they way they wish it was now…and then we’ll really be screwed.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:26 pm 79. Seerak:Overthrowing the government because you detest the results of democracy.
Hitler was the result of democracy. Now sit down and shut up, child, adults are talking.
(Godwin’s Law notwithstanding, some people’s kids just have to be told.)
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:31 pm 80. Samizdat:President Obama and the Liberal Democrat dominated Congress are undeniably pushing redistribution. The blue Dogs are resisting and are rejecting Pelosi and the President’s statism for their own self preservation.
They can see what Pelosi and the President can not, that American taxpayers who swept Obama to power ignorant of his true intentions are waking up to the goals of the liberal punitive agenda and are becoming educated in a hurry. They don’t like what they see, however myopic they were 8 months ago. Pelosi and other liberal Reps may be insulated from voter rath, but many Democrats know they are vulnerable. They are becoming more cautious as the Presidents popularity declines. The President has not yet acted effectively to stop defection from his fellow Dems. He doesn’t realize he is in trouble. He will find out soon enough, especially as unemployment continues to rise. As Roger Kimball and Mr Pierson point out, punitive liberalism is the north star for the leadership of the Democrat party. It is not the north star for the majority of us. That will eventually cost the liberals dearly.
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:40 pm 81. Understanding The Obama Administration « Tai-Chi Policy:[...] Democrats, Iran, Obama, Taxes trackback It’s not hard, whether it’s the foreign or the domestic side you’re trying to wrap your head [...]
Jul 16, 2009 - 9:46 pm 82. antaine:@Kolchak – do you love it when the rich man who employs you decides you aren’t worth it anymore?
Unless you’re your own boss, you work for someone who is going to pass his pain along to you before he allows himself to feel it.
And if you are self-employed, you’re “rich” according to Obama’s definitions.
when will the libs get it out of their heads?…wealth isn’t finite. Wealth is created by innovative people when the government gets out of their way…it then DOES trickle down to the people they employ. Punishing “rich” producers ALWAYS punishes the poor and middle class first and twice as bad.
You want to see “failed economic policies?” look at EVERY SINGLE THING the Democrats have done or implemented in the last fifty years.
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:05 pm 83. Roger Kimball: Are We There Yet? Preparing for the Coming Tax-Revolt | The Kansas Progress:[...] Kimball: [...]
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:15 pm 84. shau-jan:14.trainwreck.exactly,most peope have no idea the gifts they have been given.
37.not even trying.
49.michael.”The battles were fought and lost ages ago.
Welcome to Animal Farm buster. The Pigs are in charge and that is just the way it’s going to be.”
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:16 pm 85. Dave K.:WRONG.the fun’s just getting started.
I wish I made so much money that I could complain about Obama’s proposed tax hikes.
My guess is that an overwhelming majority of the posters of this thread will probably get a nice tax cut thanks to Obama.
Unless I’m completely wrong and most in this thread make over $250,000 a year.
Jul 16, 2009 - 10:53 pm 86. sasob:Democracy? Isn’t that when two wolves and a sheep vote on what to eat for dinner? Whether you know it or not, the Constitution established a republic, not a democracy. There is no mention of the words democracy or democratic in the entire document.
Jul 17, 2009 - 12:43 am 87. DavidN:8. Strawman:
You have to keep in mind that income taxes punish those who are trying to accumulate wealth. They don’t do anything to those who already have it. This isn’t rage on the part of the have-nots toward the haves. It’s toward the gettings. The haves skate by under the rage radar.
Look at who supports him, and who in Congress (Senate especially) thinks his are good ideas. Kennedy, Rockefeller, Edwards, Kerry, Gore, Soros, etc. All filthy rich, all unlikely to be affected by something like this, all likely to shift the burden of higher taxes to someone else, if it looks as if they’re going to have to pay more. Health care the same thing. If ObamaCare is such a good thing, we’ll know because his family will be covered by it. If they aren’t, then we don’t need to ask any more questions.
Jul 17, 2009 - 1:34 am 88. fear Obama:March 2009
Strange isn’t it?
We have lost 2 million jobs since March.
Now the Green Queen is telling us-
“Our new crap and trade bill will create millions of green jobs and produce billions of new tax dollars.”
The health care plan is just a ruse-
they know it will never pass.
This is what they are sitting us up for.
Little green two seated cars and bio soybean fuel.
Can anyone tell me where I put my 12 foot ladder? 8 foot ladder? 4 foot step ladder?
Nancy lives in a world of purple rainbows and little pink unicorns.
The yellow-green brick road ends at her house.
Seriously,
are all democrats this stupid?
Because if they are we need to flush them during mid term elections and start over.
Jul 17, 2009 - 2:13 am 89. steve macdonald:“Indeed. Anyone wish to open a book on when Obama will cross that line?”
I suspect that he already has; it simply has not yet become apparent. Even if the bills have not yet hit, the signals have been abundant that a confiscatory period is before us. I suspect that large numbers of the 10% are figuring out ways to minimize the impact to maximize net worth over time.
Jul 17, 2009 - 2:30 am 90. sodacrackers:I have lived in a lot of countries where cheating on taxes was a national pastime that carried absolutely no social stigma. The USA has a long tradition of tax avoidance/evasion but people mostly still live within the law – unless they are Obama cabinet appointees. It is not a big stretch to join the rest of the world’s tax cheating acceptance – we seem to be following Europe on everything else, why not this?
I predict that we evolve to a cultural model like Chile, where cheating on taxes is considered normal but everything still works.
It will be interesting to see the outcome of the UBS – Switzerland _ US Treasury struggle. If the Swiss win, which I think is likely, look for a steady stream of funds flowing offshore.
#1 Bob and #14 Trainwreck, you sell the American people short. Don’t kid yourself. There is no way in God’s green earth that we will sit by quietly and allow the monsters to take our country. I, for one, am mad as hell and more politically active and watching and responding to our so-called leaders than ever in my life.
Jul 17, 2009 - 4:19 am 91. Polemicscat:RE: Federal Amendment:
It would be easier to get reaffirmation of Tenth Amendment Rights for States. Some states would then become solvent and prosperous and serve as model to the others.
I wouldn’t want to see a Constitutional Convention since we would be missing Madison and Jefferson as delegates. Under the circumstances a convention would offer just more room for mischief.
Jul 17, 2009 - 4:42 am 92. Friday, July 17, 2009 — ExposeTheMedia.com:[...] Preparing For The Coming Tax-Revolt [...]
Jul 17, 2009 - 4:49 am 93. wGraves:I agree with Glenn, it’s already happening. California is a vanguard and a microcosm of those who want to study the revolt. They just increased taxes, and guess what, no more revenue than before they did it. Why? The ‘rich’ are busy like an army of beavers restructuring their investments, companies, families, etc. to survive the new regime. They are deferring compensation. What isn’t there, can’t be taxed. If that happens nationally, Mr. Spendit is going to be in for a big surprise.
Jul 17, 2009 - 5:10 am 94. misterZ:With even some centrist Democrats seemingly resisting Obama’s healthcare plan, perhaps Obama is already straddling the too-much-tax threshold.
Jul 17, 2009 - 5:11 am 95. Tomp:#61
Jul 17, 2009 - 5:54 am 96. MarkD:What a sorry loser you must be.
The dirty little secret is that there isn’t enough income to pay for all of this, and our bank, China, is not in the mood to keep funding our deadbeat binge.
The only thing our government has is printing presses. What happens when people figure out the full faith and credit of this government is worth nothing? Good luck eating that green paper.
wGraves has it right, but what isn’t noted is that many of these high incomes actually go to small businesses. You know, the ones who employ a lot of people when there is the opportunity to make a profit. No profits, no jobs, no tax revenue, more government outlays for welfare and unemployment. I am not an economist, I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but even I know that this a problem.
Jul 17, 2009 - 6:43 am 97. blotto:DaveK: (are you really DaveW??)Everybody will be further taxed into oblivian. There will be taxes and surcharges on everything for energy and health care. And in the near future, we will see an increase in the fed taxes the middle class (those making less than $250k and upwards of $95k) to pay for all these things. Plus SS will increase as will Medicaid. Hey I want to see politicians, college professors, lawyers, union thugs and other liberals in this range paying more. I believe most conservatives make far less than $100k.
Now my question is: How come nobody ever talks about a wealth tax on those making over, say, $5 million. And make it progressive until we have the likes of Gates, Lewis, soros, and the other liberal uber-wealthy paying over 50% tax on their assets.
Jul 17, 2009 - 7:14 am 98. paul:Even when Germany lay in ruins the people who supported Hitler couldn’t make the connection. The U.S. is lost. It did happen here. All this talk about revolts and is sheer fantasy.
Jul 17, 2009 - 7:25 am 99. Old Soldier:Dave K.: My wife and I are some of the those middle class risers who are just about to break through Democrats’ magic income numbers. We are getting knocked back to where we were years ago.
Strawman – the Senators from MA have nothing to fear from inflation or outright wealth siezure – much of their wealth is already overseas.
Jul 17, 2009 - 9:33 am 100. Blarty Blarckleblart:Congress raises the top marginal tax rate a couple percent – nowhere close to where it was as recently as the 1980s – and it’s the end of the world.
What a bunch of drama queens!
Jul 17, 2009 - 10:03 am 101. jarjarbinks:Aww, the rich have to pay their fair share. How sad for them.
I’m just glad we have a president who cares about the poor not the rich.
Jul 17, 2009 - 10:06 am 102. TrickyDick:When Obama and the democrats push this country and ultimately the world into the next great depression, they need not look to the military nor the state, local or federal law enforcement agencies to protect them from the civilian population who will surely exact their just revenge upon them. They will have long before realized who is the real enemy and who took bread off their tables and out of the mouthes of their children and heat from their homes. I suspect they have an idea this is in the future and this is why they want to take away your right to bear arms.
Jul 17, 2009 - 10:42 am 103. Nate:First off: All I’ve seen is whining and bitching here, the typical sort, and no action at all. If it really meant something to you, you would do something about it.
Second: The “quotations” in the above article, wherein the author takes one phrase, assumes it’s another phrase and then places that other phrase in quotations is false and misleading.
Example: “For purposes of fairness”: that means, “for purposes of economic egalitarianism.”
Nobody actually said “for purposes of economic egalitarianism”. The author’s assumptions of this are just to further feed the fire of his making, which helps all of you rabid, yet weak, criers into jumping on the bandwagon. Nothing but propoganda.
Third: It gets so tiring to hear the generalizations of the left or Dem’s. According to the hate spewed on here, anybody who even remotely brands themselves Left are lazy, fat, anti-productive, beggers or the enablers who drive them. I will have you know that nearly every Leftist I know has driven themselves harder than most of you probably ever have to get what little life could give them. They came from poor families, rose to be huge producers of society and know where they came from. They would not have reached the point in their lives where they can life comfortably off of their own earnings and, honestly, do more with their life than most of you, if it were not for such programs as welfare or social security that saved their lives.
Given this info, I certainly expect the usual, “Obama lover” or other such trite and useless insults in response. And frankly, that just shows 2 things:
1. You certainly know how to insult a person (*snicker*)
2. That despite your deepest desire to be better than those terribe, evil, marxist/communist/maoist liberals/dems/socialists, you have exposed yourself to being no better than the extremist left wing and those that you are obviously against, but choose to hate everyone.
Truth of what I believe: I believe you’ve all been lead into believing in a lot more hate than you should. I also believe that it’s important for freaks like you to exist, for while I do not believe Obama and co. will reach the heights of your fears, freaks like you need to be there to slap someones hand when they go to far.
That’s my 2 cents. Flame on!
Jul 17, 2009 - 10:52 am 104. Blarty Blarckleblart:I suspect they have an idea this is in the future and this is why they want to take away your right to bear arms.
Say TrickyDick, could you elaborate on the specific plans of Obama and the Democrats to take away our right to bear arms? Maybe some bill numbers, that kind of thing? Tnx
Jul 17, 2009 - 10:58 am 105. Cato:The primary reason most people pay their taxes is that most people’s taxes are deducted through payroll withholding. It’s the government’s ability to force prepayment, with criminal penalties, that gives us high compliance.
However, if no one filed a tax return except those entitled to a refund, and those who are responsible for the payment of their own estimated taxes (i.e., who are not subject to withholding) did not make any payments at all, and everyone insisted the matter be litigated, the government would not have enough lawyers nor the courts enough time, to deal with literally millions of tax cases. All the while, the government receiving only what was actually withheld.
Of course, this would be wrong and illegal, and I would never advocate anyone failing to fully comply with the law.
Jul 17, 2009 - 11:08 am 106. Blarty Blarckleblart:The primary reason most people pay their taxes is that most people’s taxes are deducted through payroll withholding. It’s the government’s ability to force prepayment, with criminal penalties, that gives us high compliance.
You don’t have to have taxes withheld. People who have been employers and/or employees know that you can choose to set your own withholding at zero.
Jul 17, 2009 - 11:20 am 107. Roderick Reilly:“”"”"I wouldn’t want to see a Constitutional Convention since we would be missing Madison and Jefferson as delegates. Under the circumstances a convention would offer just more room for mischief.”"”"”"”
Agreed, NO CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. Bad idea. It would be overrun by lefties in no time flat. Just abide by the existing constitution.
Jul 17, 2009 - 11:23 am 108. Lynn B.:OH taxes will be at 54.7%. WTF are they thinking? I am so beyond P***ed!
Jul 17, 2009 - 11:32 am 109. kathleen:For me the point will come when the government is getting the majority of my money rather than me getting the majority of my money. Let the revolution begin!
Jul 17, 2009 - 11:33 am 110. MainStreet:Reply to JarJarbinks: He’s glad we have a President that cares for the poor.
Did you ever think of why the poor are poor. Thousands of Asians have come to this country penniless and have picked themselves up by working hard and caring for their family. Many of the American people have learned it is easier to take from the government than to work hard and provide for themselves. They are dependent on the government without any incentive to break from the past. The more children they have, the more government assistance they get and their children know no better.
The government is no better than the old slave owners of the South. They are keeping the poor, poor in perpetuity through the government programs you espouse. And what do the guilty feeling liberals get, a populous that knows no better than to vote for their slave owners.
Obama is against anyone who is independent of the government. He wants to destroy anyone he cannot control, who will try to stop government from enslaving the populous, hence his fatwa on the successful and job producing citizens.
Jul 17, 2009 - 11:51 am 111. shau-jan:“I will have you know that nearly every Leftist I know has driven themselves harder than most of you probably ever have to get what little life could give them.”
i know a few like that too,but the policies they support will still eventually bankrupt the country and turn us in to a mediocre society.
Jul 17, 2009 - 11:58 am 112. Chuck:#106: To begin, you cannot avoid having FICA withheld if you’re an employee. If you think that you can have nothing else withheld, prepare for a nasty penalty from the IRS for underwithholding.
#103 said “It gets so tiring to hear the generalizations of the left or Dem’s”.
So true. I grow weary of the idiotic generalizations the Left uses to lessen our freedom. However I find that the generalizations regarding the Left are quite accurate.
Jul 17, 2009 - 12:05 pm 113. Nate:Reply to MainStreet:
“Obama is against anyone who is independent of the government. He wants to destroy anyone he cannot control, who will try to stop government from enslaving the populous, hence his fatwa on the successful and job producing citizens.”
Wow, reread your entire words here and realize just how filled with undeniable, and yet uncontrollable fear. The more and more I read from people like you, the more I realize that someone has filled your head with propoganda and warped your thinking into believing that Obama represents the tyranny of America. I know you cannot have come to this conclusion on your own, evidence pointing to the fact that you frequented this site and listened to the raving hate here.
And remember, the poor are not poor simply because they choose to be. How many people became poor because of the economic fallout of this recession/depression? Who’s fault was that? Their own? You like to place blame on the victims apparently. Would you blame a cancer patient for having cancer? Not everyone who has lung cancer smoked for years. It’s not always that persons fault. Realize this, and you may be a happier person with less hate in your heart.
Jul 17, 2009 - 12:15 pm 114. Lynn B.:#101 jarjarbinks
Jul 17, 2009 - 12:42 pm 115. Blarty Blarckleblart:What will make you exempt from rising costs of everything? You know, the luxuries like food, gas, electricity, water. And, if on government assistance, you will have less just like anyone else because EVERYTHING will cost more.
112 Chuck
To begin, you cannot avoid having FICA withheld if you’re an employee. If you think that you can have nothing else withheld, prepare for a nasty penalty from the IRS for underwithholding.
You are correct. My mistake.
Jul 17, 2009 - 12:45 pm 116. Suzanne:We’ll be there when the taxes actually kick in and the income lost from lack of work,diminshed business and cuts in fees and salaries that most people have suffered since the Fall of 2008 won’t allow us to maintain the overheads we’ve struggled to meet in the crunch….that’s when we fall apart….just what that looks like, I’m not sure, because there is no apparent recourse through Congress; they do just what they want, or what they’re told to do.
Jul 17, 2009 - 12:53 pm 117. MainStreet:Hi Nate,
I’m to old to fear Obama, that should be up to those younger who think government is the answer rather than self motivation and hard work. For every person getting from the government, there is a person having something taken away, whether it be in taxes, government regulation or freedom.
I agree that not all of the poor today are the ones living off government programs and there are many reasons for this. Temporary assistance is no problem, it is the “cradle to the grave” mentality of most Liberals that I cannot agree with.
Actually, I am very happy, had a job since I was 8 years old (paper route) and even before that, selling my fathers vegetable garden produce door to door in a small town in the Midwest.
No hate in my heart, just a feeling of sadness when I see our Republic turning into an unproductive socialist society, and its people dictated to by the federal government
Jul 17, 2009 - 1:03 pm 118. exsanguine:BLarty;”You don’t have to have taxes withheld. People who have been employers and/or employees know that you can choose to set your own withholding at zero.”
You can no longer opt of out FICA withholding. Federal yes, FICA, no.
I have already started revolting. I no longer accept checks or credit cards for my side business. Cash or money order only.
Jul 17, 2009 - 1:05 pm 119. Why Should the Rich Feel Guilty? | The Neophyte:[...] to discourage “bad behavior” (e.g., smoking). They use the progressive tax system to penalize “those who have had the temerity to succeed” and to redistribute wealth. Roger Kimbal observes that the “rich” are supposed to feel guilty about their economic [...]
Jul 17, 2009 - 2:07 pm 120. AuntieMadder:“How many people became poor because of the economic fallout of this recession/depression?”
How many of the newly poor that you speak of, when they were doing well, lived for the day without bothering to put away one red cent for a rainy day? If, when on good times, instead of living large they’d been more responsible and built a nest egg, they wouldn’t be poor now. After all, all Americans are living through this Greater Depression. Why should those with foresight be forced to take responsibility for those without?
Anyone who isn’t afraid, or at least worried, about the future of this country and their place in it is either uninformed, misinformed or too stupid to care.
Jul 17, 2009 - 2:20 pm 121. Night Owl:re: 97 blotto:
“Now my question is: How come nobody ever talks about a wealth tax on those making over, say, $5 million. And make it progressive until we have the likes of Gates, Lewis, soros, and the other liberal uber-wealthy paying over 50% tax on their assets.”
Good point raised here. I’m against class warfare, but can see the writing on the wall- that in all this crisis the richest of the rich keep getting richer and potentially more powerful. Some can become so rich they can “buy” anything they want- including politicians, elections, gov’ts, stock mkts.
The uber-wealthy, with their tax-sheltered wealth, must get a kick out of hearing Obamabots call people making $250,000 a year rich.
Jul 17, 2009 - 2:31 pm 122. » Financial News Update - 07/17/09 NoisyRoom.net: Where liberty dwells, there is my country…:[...] Are We There Yet? Preparing for the Coming Tax-Revolt [...]
Jul 17, 2009 - 3:10 pm 123. Daily Edition 7/17/09 « The Quantum Conservative:[...] *Are We There Yet? Preparing for the coming tax revolt, by Roger Kimball. [...]
Jul 17, 2009 - 3:26 pm 124. myth buster:You shouldn’t worry. Worrying only does you harm. Prudent preparation, on the other hand, is what the wise man does.
Jul 17, 2009 - 3:50 pm 125. Albert:How lucky for those in power that people don’t think. “Adolf Hitler”
Jul 17, 2009 - 6:54 pm 126. You need to realize the debts of the United States::[...] These debts are huge to cause whole lot of crisis worse than this one. If we don’t start doing something about it now, The u.s government may need to prepare for the coming Tax-Revolt. [...]
Jul 17, 2009 - 9:48 pm 127. Oldguy:#8 Strawman:
Jul 18, 2009 - 7:50 am 128. Blarty Blarckleblart:Exactly, Socialists tax income. Communists tax wealth, which is why Communism will never take hold in the US.
You can no longer opt of out FICA withholding. Federal yes, FICA, no.
You’re right; I was wrong. Thanks to you and Chuck for the correction, and apologies to Cato.
Jul 18, 2009 - 8:45 am 129. chuck:Blarty
I’ve had a small business for 22 years. Over that time I’ve had lot’s of employees try to go for what you had said. No good ever came from it.
Jul 18, 2009 - 10:09 am 130. Patriot:Fuck a tax revolt. REAL revolt is coming soon. Never EVER let them take your or anyone else’s guns, because once things really start they will. They forgot that people like me have been PRAYING for something like this to happen for years. We will take America out of the grip of these bastards, even if we have to burn down half the country to do it. This is an incitement of violence and revolt.
Jul 19, 2009 - 2:45 am 131. Al Reasin:103: Nate: read/reread #60. Some of us are taking it to congress. Join us.
130: Patriot: I worry about another Shays’ Rebellion when all of the options have not been taken; MLK’s revolution was peaceful on his part. Let’s give his tactics a chance first. That anger needs channeling and the TEA Parties are not enough; daily demonstrations/picketing at the 3000 or so regional offices of congresspeople would, I hope, certainly wake them up. If not, onward to Shays’ Rebellion II, but realize the massive destruction and possible dictatorial rule that could ensue. Our enemies would also not idly watch our self-destruction.
Jul 19, 2009 - 12:08 pm 132. Blarty Blarckleblart:130 Patriot
The scenario you describe is insane, but I have to admit it would be comical to watch the Keyboard Kommandos try to take out tanks and attack helicopters with the little popguns they keep in their garages.
Jul 19, 2009 - 1:14 pm 133. shau-jan:130.patriot.TROLL.
132.blarty.”The scenario you describe is insane, but I have to admit it would be comical to watch the Keyboard Kommandos try to take out tanks and attack helicopters with the little popguns they keep in their garages”
THAT would be a hoot,unfortuntatly that is not how it would play out,it would be a blood bath.(remember our last civil war?)people like patriot are seemingly unaware of this,which is why he/she/it should shut up.
Jul 19, 2009 - 3:15 pm 134. SteveB/Colorado:#103 Nate: “…..all I’ve seen here is whining and bitching…..” Good post Nate. Yes, many of the posters you talk about have been conservatives since January 20, 2009 (inauguration day). I wonder how many of them either voted for McCain; campaigned for McCain; or gave money to his campaign (disclosure: I did #s 1 & 3).
#107 Roderick Reilly: “….Agreed. No constitutional convention. It would be overrun by lefties in no time….” Actually, I’d be more worried about an attempted takeover of a constitutional convention by the anti-abortion taliban zealots; the anti-evolution creationists; and other right wing crazies.
Jul 21, 2009 - 4:22 pm 135. SteveB/Colorado:#1340 Patriot: “they forgot that people like me have been praying for something like this to happen for years. We will take America out of the grip of these bastards…..”
Yeah right. Then who will save the country from you and your like?
Jul 21, 2009 - 4:27 pm