139 Comments

1. Pajamas Media » House Health Care Bill Passes: A Small Step for Nancy Pelosi, A Giant Leap For Despotism.:

[...] Read the entire piece here. [...]

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:04 am 2. Jack:

Lock & load!

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:19 am 3. TexEd:

It is just about increasing Washington control over our lives; that is incidental. Obama’s objective or, rather, the objective of the pimps who own him, is the destruction of the middle class in America.
Once having spent our money, the dems will try to balance the budget, first, by decreasing military spending, then by rationing health services and, then, by raising taxes.

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:39 am 4. XiaoMei:

Roger, this morning I’m looking everywhere for inspiration, not defeatism. You offer a little of both.

Here’s what I say: If freedom is lost gradually, it is often won back dramatically. However we citizens do it, it is now up to us. Do we dare betray the blood of our founders?

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:40 am 5. 1GooDDaDDy:

I’m spending my day at the range today…just to keep my skills up.

Not Over.

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:45 am 6. Jack:

Concerning the “Lock & load” comment, euphemistically of course.

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:46 am 7. kochevnik:

Repubs enjoy burning $1.4trillion murdering a million Iraqis, but detest the thought of putting America first.

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:48 am 8. Firewolf:

I’m thining we need to hold demonstrations at the offices of all our Senators, and make a really big stink!

We will have to redouble our efforts. This has become clear to me now, based on this and the first AP article I read about the House passing the bill.

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:50 am 9. Ellen K:

The biggest mistake supporters have made is to think this bill will magically alleviate their healthcare worries. I would submit to you that the government penchant for paperwork, forms and limitations will make healthcare a constant worry for members of this population. Plus, and this is a huge issue, the core of this program is not about healthcare at all. Instead it is about deliberately diverting a revenue stream from private insurance companies to the federal government. Those funds will not be used for what most consider as healthcare. Instead a chunk will be used to establish community centers that are vaguely mandated to help mainly poor and minority communities. In fact the thrust of much of this bill is directed specifically at narrow ethnic groups to the exclusion of rural and majority citizens who also suffer from medical maladies. And, you can add to that the fact that the plan will not kick in until 2013. So for all that considered this a magic bullet, I hope you are patient, because this will be a long time in coming and the results will be higher taxes and fewer jobs. If you don’t like those ideas, contact your representatives as well as committee chairs. We should not have this bill shoved down our throats.

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:55 am 10. Saltherring:

On the prepice of World War One, during the summer of 1914, Britain’s Sir Edward Grey is said to have stated to a colleague, “The lamps are going out all over Europe; we shall not see them lit again in our lifetime.”

I feel much the same regarding America in 2009. We are entering a dark age of fear and diminished expectations due to oppressive taxation/skyrocketing debt, incessant attacks against our Constitutional liberties, diminished government integrity, rapid erosion of societal values, our leaders abandoning us for special interests and of course, mounting foreign threats. I have lost all confidence in our government’s desire and ability to govern by constitutional mandates and established protocols. Our congress and president are hell-bent to dismantle what has stood for more than two centuries. I do not know where and how it will end but time is growing short for the America we have known and loved.

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:59 am 11. james:

It’s of course not control over our medical care that they seek but control over us. This bill won’t get out of the senate, but something else might, and no matter what it is, people under sixty years of age will finish out their lives as slaves.
Whatever the next step is, any ‘health care’ bill must be stopped. Landrieux, Lincoln, Nelson, Lieberman: these are all very important people now.

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:05 am 12. dr strangelove:

We now have an imperial presidency with a complicit, do-nothing congress. Vote them all out in 2010 should be the new rallying cry.

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:07 am 13. james:

And by the way, the word “shall” appears some three-thousand times.
Can’t you just hear Pelosi and Waxman, during internal debate, arousing each other with talk of throwing Americans in prison for not going along? Hillary did the same thing back in 1993. Prison. But in her case it was for doctors.

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:09 am 14. Anonymous:

Destroy America for Socialism: Government Control makes Democrats feel Virile! (Supposedly the rest of the world will like us better, too, but you know how realistic left/liberal thought is.)

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:29 am 15. Thought Criminal:

I’m writing this from a hotel-esque room at Rex Hospital in Raleigh, North Carolina where my wife and our 11-hour-old son are sleeping blissfully. The staff here – from the surgeon to the nurses to the cleaning lady – have been world-class and have exceeded all my expectations in spades. [All you trolls will be pleased to know that all manner of folk with every skin color and from socioeconomic group are here having babies too.] All this can and will disappear if we let these bureaucratic, power-mad devils take over our medical system. You will literally pay with your life.

A terrible evil was perpetrated on the great United States from the halls of congress about the same time my beautiful boy was born and I for one will not stand for it. I shudder to think what will befall our noble nation if we allow this “healthcare” monstrosity to be shoved down our collective throats. Truly frightening stuff.

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:31 am 16. sofa:

Intolerable Acts. The coup is almost complete: (a) cap and tax, and (b) turning over sovereignty in an international treaty comes next. We watched them do it.

“Only when the enemy could not be overcome by these political means was there recourse to armed force, …”
- Sun Tzu

Two years ago, it would have taken 100 million chinese to make this happen; direct gov’t control of banks, finances, car companies, healthcare, czars dictating salaries, destruction generational wealth and small businesses.

We watch as mad-hattery and Soros puppets do it via luddites, lawyers, kleptocrats, and bureaucracy. Collectivism without a shot fired. Slick.

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:31 am 17. ~Paules:

Roger, I fear it’s worse than you think. If the party in power has so little respect for the U.S. Constitution, what makes you think they will relinquish power by constitutional means? Al Franken shows us the way. It’s going to take a civil uprising before we are free of these totalitarians. There will be dark days ahead.

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:32 am 18. Bear:

what it means is don’t get sick after July, or in my case before the government swine flu shots are available

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:43 am 19. turfmonster:

We need to vote out every Democrat that is up for election in 2010. The only ones who should be spared are the ones who switch parties.

None of the rest should be spared.

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:47 am 20. misanthopicus:

My view of the helth bill’s (unintended?) consequences is that it can (or will) consolidate the existing parties in the process (it’s true, many they are, and various interests they have), in two vast groups, “assistees” and “assisters”, the well-being of both being in the hands of the government – thus generating a pro-government class of voters.

Hardly a positive development -

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:55 am 21. Instapundit » Blog Archive » JERRY POURNELLE: “I would have thought that the Obama administration is at least as responsible for…:

[...] MORE: Roger Kimball: What It Means. [...]

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:59 am 22. edh:

Personally, I’m glad an extremist bill passed the House under Pelosi. A compromise version would have dulled the distinctions.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:11 am 23. Pedrosito:

Patrick Henry’s words will echo in this land again.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:26 am 24. Person of Choler:

The population is divided into two groups: (1)those who work for a living and (2)those who vote for a living.

Group 2 is about to expand significantly.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:31 am 25. Bilgeman:

#15 Thought Criminal:
“A terrible evil was perpetrated on the great United States from the halls of congress about the same time my beautiful boy was born and I for one will not stand for it.”

Hey…congratulations and good luck!

Weight length…picked out a name?

Can I make a pitch for “Bugsy”? I’ve always liked the name “Bugsy”.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:35 am 26. ConservativeWanderer:

My gut instinct tells me this is the last gasp of a dying effort, if (and it’s a big if) the public does its part. Consider the following:

* The Senate will soon recess to return to their states. The Senate.gov website says this will be around the 11-13, with a second recess right around Thanksgiving.

* Given the town hall meetings from the last recess, as well as the successful rallies on 9/12 and the one just last Thursday, we can expect that the people will be applying a lot of heat to their Senators during these recesses.

* Harry Reid has already said things that seem to indicate that he’s not willing to take this up before the beginning of the year. With the heat voters will be piling on their Senators, we can probably expect that there won’t be many willing to take it up before 2010, and perhaps not even during an election year.

* Harry Reid has to know that he can’t lose even a single Democratic Senator on this vote, because he can’t count on even one Republican vote. The single vote to move Baucus’ bill out of committee, Senator Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) has said that she might not vote for final passage of the bill.

So, it’s up to the voters again. Make your voices heard, loudly but always politely. Tell Democrat Senators that if they vote for any health-care reform bill, that you’ll actively support their opponent with your voice and your wallet. You might even promise them a one-time donation if they vote against it (of course, a good Republican would donate an equal or greater amount to a Republican challenger… but you don’t have to tell them that).

This is our country, the Senators work for us, it’s high time to remind them of this!

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:36 am 27. ian:

I have to commend the Democrats. They are creating a massive new entitlement with an accompanying massive new bureaucracy that will magically not cost anything, not result in higher taxes, not result in higher prices, not effect anyone’s standard of living or income, not impede the capacity of companies to hire new employees, and that will have no adverse effect on the quality of health care. Sounds wonderful as fairy tales go. In the real world we know that grandiosity has a steep price. I will only add that the rush to implement this legislation is based on the pretense that once enacted it will be difficult to undo. That’s a theory that will easily be put the test once the sticker shock sets in.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:37 am 28. Wisdom Seeker:

From New York. It’s like the rest of us don’t exist, with the Dems in control of this state. I’d gladly camp out if it would do any good. As far as I can see Charles E. Schumer is one of those FOR our demise, Kirsten Gillibrand, might be easier to turn around, she doesn’t have as much to lose either way. Possibly Divine Intervention will work.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:41 am 29. Mike K:

What no one outside the profession seems to consider is that doctors are abandoning Medicare and few accept Medicaid, which is about to be expanded if this passes the Senate. As the Democrats keep pushing one way, the medical profession which is abandoning the AMA in droves, pushes another way. Soon, Medicare beneficiaries will have to find primary care docs by paying cash. It will be an interesting phenomenon if the government really goes over the cliff. There is a willful suspension of disbelief going on in the Democratic Party.

In a way, the combined effect may get us to real reform. Pay cash for primary, outpatient care, and use insurance only for hospitalized care. That is actually what real reform would look like. The Democrats may get us there as an unintended consequence.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:44 am 30. Bilgeman:

Mr. Kimaball:

Noted in passing that Bill Owens of NY voted in the affirmative.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:44 am 31. Delia:

I used to think, “THANK GOD I am an AMERICAN!”

Now?

:\

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:46 am 32. Al Reasin:

Join us in our attempt to have our local corner club expand towards taking back our nation . . . one corner at a time. See http://patriotscornerclub.ning.com.

Once a week we “Stand up for Freedom” at a heavily traveled corner in Bel Air, MD and have lately discovered, unbeknownst to us, there are others doing this too. We need to be educating our fellow citizens between our TEA Parties and this is a way to do that with minimum effort. Join us to see what can be done, what we do and your suggestions on improving our efforts.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:49 am 33. Agrippa:

To Saltherring (post #10, above):

I understand why recent events have made you think of Sir Edward Grey’s 1914 statement about the lamps going out all over Europe.

But please do not despair. More and more people grasp the dangers we face and are taking action to prevent the ill thought out government expansion championed by Pelosi and the hard left. I believe the America we know and love will not only endure but thrive.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:54 am 34. Stevemmn:

All is not necessarily lost. The great unanswered question now is, what will the Senate do? Will the bill be fillibustered? Or will Democrats buy off enough votes for cloture? Or will they use the nuclear option? Or will the Senate’s version have irreconcilable differences??

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:55 am 35. pelicans:

Anh Cao apparently forgot that he was elected by moderates, conservatives and good government types. When he was elected, I was astonished that the people of New Orleans could actually get rid of Jefferson, actually buck the political status quo. But I got an unpleasant feeling that he liked Washington, that he wanted out of the sticks. It was reported that he moved his family to DC and was taking positions on issues that just didn’t sound right. Now this . . . what kind of enthusiasm does he think that he will create next year? Who will care whether he is reelected or not?

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:11 am 36. Mike M.:

I could not agree with you more Mr. Simon.

I am ready to fight, but the situation is so dire since we have no one to lead the fight, no one to rally around.

America is on the brink. I pray to God she does not go down without a fight. How disgraceful would it be to all those who went before us, if our generation was the one to lose America.

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:24 am 37. Army of Davids:

The people will fight back. This isn’t over.

We make our stand in the Senate.

Talking point number one….PelosiCare is a job killer

8% payroll tax, insurance mandates, 5.4 tax on incomes over 500K = 12%+ unemployment and more business failures.

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:25 am 38. Mike M.:

Kimball. My apologies. I just read a Roger Simon and got the names confused.

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:25 am 39. Army of Davids:

PelosiCare is a Job Killer

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:26 am 40. Principlex:

My representative, John Lewis, a solid Democrat, voted for Hideous Health Car. I penned this tribute to the man here: http://principlex.blogspot.com/2009/11/to-john-lewis-for-2nd-day-in-row.html

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:38 am 41. moho:

I think The Onion has a copyright on its material, but thanks for posting this, anyway. It was hilarious. ‘in the dead of night’,…lol…

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:39 am 42. Rewrite!:

I need another cup of coffee; this article seemed incoherent, cobbled together.

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:43 am 43. Rewrite!:

p.s. you left out the gun control that’s buried in it.

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:45 am 44. What I Think:

Just when passage of this monstrosity will seem impossible, the Republicans will come thru with an Obamacare Lite to save the day.

/sarcasm

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:45 am 45. B. Johnson:

Given the federal Constitution is silent about public healthcare, the federal government has no constitutional authority to regulate healthcare. Please consider the writings by constitutional experts on this issue.

First, contrary to what Pelosi and other constitutionally-impaired lawmakers might think, Congress has no power to regulate intrastate commerce.

“For the power given to Congress by the Constitution does not extend to the internal regulation of the commerce of a State, (that is to say of the commerce between citizen and citizen,) which remain exclusively with its own legislature; but to its external commerce only, that is to say, its commerce with another State, or with foreign nations, or with the Indian tribes.” –Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson’s Opinion on the Constitutionality of a National Bank : 1791. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bank-tj.asp

Next, the USSC has already tested the idea of Congress regulating medicine, deciding against Congress.

“Direct control of medical practice in the states is obviously beyond the power of Congress.” –Linder v. United States, 1925. http://supreme.justia.com/us/268/5/case.html

One reason that the corrupt federal government has greatly overstepped its constitutional limits in healthcare issues is this. Pro-big federal government, outcome-driven justices nominated by FDR perverted the reasonable interpretation of the Commerce clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) in the 1940s.

The bottom line is that the Congressmen who vote yes on Obamacare will make a handy list of lawmakers who need to be charged with treason for blatantly violating their oaths to defend the Constitution.

Finally, the following words of Thomas Jefferson are appropriate for the HoR’s exercising of constitutionally nonexistent federal government powers where Pelosicare legislation is concerned.

“Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.” –Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. http://tinyurl.com/oozoo

In fact, it’s already being suggested that Pelosicare is DOA in the Senate.

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:54 am 46. Fausta’s Blog » Blog Archive » Two-point-six trillion dollars:

[...] What it means. [...]

Nov 8, 2009 - 12:04 pm 47. TomF:

Wake up people; Socialized medicine cures much of what ails you. One look at most socialized hospitals of the world and you will feel better all ready.

Nov 8, 2009 - 12:16 pm 48. Saltherring:

Agrippa @ 33:

I hope you are right. Although I have been an optimist throughout my life I find myself becoming more pessimistic as I age. I have little faith in our narcissist, ill-educated younger generations and even less in the leaders they choose. As our greatest (WWII) generation continues to die off, folks who learned values and work ethic from them are losing the battle with Hollywood, the public education establishment, the sock puppet media and the overall culture of entitlement/dependency. Efforts by Tea-Partiers and Townhallers (like myself) are probably too little-too late.

Nov 8, 2009 - 12:17 pm 49. "progressivewatch":

Pelosi,Reid,Dodd,and old Ted,
Murtha,Rangel,Frank the bobblehead,
The whole grasping cabal,
Etcetera,et al,
The Congress of the living dead.

Nov 8, 2009 - 12:27 pm 50. paul_unalaska:

kochevnik, yeah I see the ’similarities’ of attempting to liberate tens of millions of people suffering from decades of a totalitarian regime to a society whereas 84% of our country already possesses health insurance. What a boob.

Granted reform SHOULD be addressed. Though allowing a group that failed at turning a profit from selling cars to not being able to provide H1N1 vaccines for the populous (though are great at producing a pandemic when it’s anything but) to use $1.2 trillion dollars for ~36,000,000 people (only $3.3 million per person for the decade..!) to strong arm purchases of health insurance.. oy!

The vast majority of those not possessing health insurance? 18-29 year olds.

The majority of those unemployed? Recent college graduates. Ixnay, exnay = many of the same people from the 2 groups mentioned.

10.2% unemployment and this is the most important ‘caviat’? Wow..

Nov 8, 2009 - 12:30 pm 51. JED:

The bill, in it’s current state, passed with 50.57% of the house’s approval. Nancy can dance, but until there are numerous more amendments and the public has time to become aware of this monstrosity, she dances on thin ice. The lesson of August’s questions and protests have yet time to emerge in November.

Nov 8, 2009 - 12:39 pm 52. Sherab Zangpo:

Nazi Pelosi 1
Democracy 0

Thank you for the opportunity to comment

Nov 8, 2009 - 12:40 pm 53. J Charles:

Four words: “Felony Health Insurance Evasion”

Nov 8, 2009 - 12:52 pm 54. Now and Then:

31. Delia:
I used to think, “THANK GOD I am an AMERICAN!”

Now?

:\

Well, I guess you can’t fault Michelle Obama for her comments anymore.

Nov 8, 2009 - 12:58 pm 55. escapee:

B. Johnson: That is correct, and still valid. Except that the people choose to be citizens of the United States and subject to the jurisdiction, as in the District of Columbia, or American Samoa. The feds have exclusive legislation over those territories, and the “citizens” therein.

The people have freely chosen to be state “residents” instead of state Citizens. Light bulb, anyone?

Nov 8, 2009 - 1:00 pm 56. Now and Then:

Obama can’t beat Hillary.
Obama can’t beat McCain and Palin.
The Democrat can’t win NY 23.
Democrats can’t get healthcare reform pass in the House.

I think you foilks need a new psychic . . . perhaps Reagan’s astrologer is available.

Nov 8, 2009 - 1:01 pm 57. Marc Malone:

Didn’t we go through all this earllier in the year? Hadn’t they already passed a healthcare takeover in the House? Didn’t it pass 218-217? I feel like I’m in a time-loop. Deja-vu all over again.

Nov 8, 2009 - 1:03 pm 58. 1MPTomb:

I have already written to the 2 Senators from my state, both Democrats. Don’t know if it will do any good, but I feel better for it. I will continue to write everyday, just so they don’t forget…..

Nov 8, 2009 - 1:06 pm 59. naturalfake:

Looks like there’s a little pork in the healthcare bill.

Behold!

THE NANCY PELOSI NATIONAL HEALTHCARE INVESTMENT TRAINING CENTER

http://naturalfake.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/the-nancy-pelosi-national-investment-training-center

Nov 8, 2009 - 1:10 pm 60. Poor Citizen:

Those without hope and no chance in ever participating in having a better, healthier, quality of life, finally won something. The insurance companies, though still earning millions of dollars every day on the backs of working Americans, without providing little or nothing..finally lost, for once. That sounds fair to me. Now, maybe a few more folks from the party of no..progress.. will join those that know what is going on and keep things .. moving forward…Will they? who knows.

Nov 8, 2009 - 1:21 pm 61. John:

The third description of treason is:

the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

I believe the politicreeps in OUR House of Representatives just stooped to that level.

Nov 8, 2009 - 1:46 pm 62. wont get fooled again:

VOTE THEM ALL OUT ! This group of individuals that have led this nation down this path for so many years need to go. Not one needs to stay in office. It absolutely amazes me how little people respect their vote. Individuals are led to vote for either one party or the other and what do we have? We have 535 individuals that sit and want to give us our daily rations. I would like anyone to give me an example of what good this group has done in the last ten years except lay a burden of debt on our great great grandchildren. And you who vote continually for the same ones want them to manage your health care. Wake up Voters before it is too late!

Nov 8, 2009 - 1:50 pm 63. biblio44:

“Yesterday, in the dead of night, the U.S. House of Representatives took a small step for Nancy Pelosi and a giant step for despotism.”

This is probably not RK’s most nonsensical blog, but it will do, it will do….

Nov 8, 2009 - 2:04 pm 64. Sherab Zangpo:

#49 Now and Then

I think you foilks need a new psychic

Nope, we just need the same funds that Obama and the others of this muslimarxist administration have received from Soros, from the Saudis and from all the other enemies of America (including China and Russia) to destroy America, America’s economy, America’s Freedom,…and the dollar.

But I kindly remind you of New Jersey…

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

Nov 8, 2009 - 2:18 pm 65. Mad_as_H:

DEMOCRATS HAVE LAUNCHED THE FIRST SALVO IN THEIR CIVIL WAR AGAINST TAXPAYERS.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

Nov 8, 2009 - 2:39 pm 66. mik:

yayyy! it passed!

Nov 8, 2009 - 2:55 pm 67. anonymous:

“Obama speaks of Hope and Change. His hope is to transform the United States into a hamstrung socialist redoubt.”

Wow. Mr. K is absolutely unhinged by the fact that millions of his fellow Americans might now be able to get the healthcare they need and deserve.

Nov 8, 2009 - 3:16 pm 68. Romo:

In the Uk, where we have socialised medicine, in the hospital where I work, about 38% of patients are either illegal immigrants or refugees. None of these have ever paid anything towards their health care. That means that we, the taxpayer, are having to carry them.

Socialised medicine in the UK also means that you will be at the mercy of NICE who will determine whether or not you may have x or y medication/operation/procedure in your area. If they deem it too expensive, you can die.

Hospitals will not be able to order various tests that they consider inappropriate (even if the doctor in charge thinks that they are) because such procedures are also considered too expensive.

We do not, on the whole, consider preventative medicine here and even private health insurance won’t cover it.

How on earth a country (the USA) with over 330 million inhabitants can have universal ‘free’ health care is beyond imagination. With your explosion of immigrants, legal and illegal, I don’t know how on earth it can possibly work.

It’s all very well for congress to vote this in but it’s fine for your millionaires and senators etc with their own private health care scheme. It’s a lame brained idea that hasn’t been thought out properly.

I wish you luck!

Nov 8, 2009 - 3:27 pm 69. JDS:

“56. Now and Then:
Obama can’t beat Hillary.
Obama can’t beat McCain and Palin.
The Democrat can’t win NY 23.
Democrats can’t get healthcare reform pass in the House.

I think you foilks need a new psychic . . . perhaps Reagan’s astrologer is available.”

Reality is a socialist conspiracy.

Nov 8, 2009 - 3:33 pm 70. Anonymous:

The Feds may pass what they like – there are limits to my tolerance, and I will not see myself and my descendants delivered unto federal slavery. I shall be dead amongst a pile of spent brass before I reach this point.

Nov 8, 2009 - 3:43 pm 71. ken in sc:

Doctors may not accept cash payments from Medicare patients. It’s considered Medicare Fraud and I’m pretty sure it is a felony.

Nov 8, 2009 - 3:47 pm 72. Bilgeman:

#67 Anonymous:
“Wow. Mr. K is absolutely unhinged by the fact that millions of his fellow Americans might now be able to get the healthcare they need and deserve.”

You mean they’ll be able to afford it without giving up their $300 monthly cell phone bill or their $500 a month car note.

Nobody “deserves” anything. They get what they can afford.

It’s a terrible thing when you go bankrupt paying for your own health care, but with Socialist Utopiacare, you get to go bankrupt paying for somebody ELSE’S health care.

And wait until the special interests begin redefining what “medical care” means.

You’ll be paying taxes so some dirtbag can smoke medicinal marijuana and have a therapeutic massage…you wait and see.

And unlike with private plans, you will not be allowed the choice to go without.

Nov 8, 2009 - 3:56 pm 73. Will:

anonymous

I am a registered nurse and I work at a Chicago hospital as a floor nurse. My colleagues and I perform services in which we expect to be well paid for our work. Nobody and I mean nobody deserve our services because we don’t work for free. Hospitals don’t exist for free. Medications are not invented so that they can be free. Medical doctors did not spend 200 thousand dollars or more college tuition fee, spend three to six years in residency and medical/surgical fellowship being paid peanuts and you expect them to work for free after all of that?? Hate to tell you,anonymous, the United States have a severe shortage of doctors and nurses. No intelligent kid would want to enter healthcare just because millions of Americans need it or deserve it if they are not well compensated for it. And oh yeah, good luck recruiting nurses and doctors from Australia, Korea, Philippines, Canada and the rest of the world. No self respecting health care professional even he or she is altruistic enough to continue to practice his and her profession under Obama/Pelosi care. And I forgot to tell you anonymous, the United States need more hospitals and with this bill being passed in Congress. Good luck getting new hospitals being built and they don’t get built for free just because you think Americans need and deserve health care.

Poor Citizen

How does a 2.2 % profit sound when you combine the profits of health insurance companies in 2008. Fact check is your friend, Poor citizen.

Nov 8, 2009 - 3:58 pm 74. arthur:

I cheered when i heard this passed! this is a great positive for our country, and i am afraid the republicans have missed the boat completely on this one!

Nov 8, 2009 - 4:00 pm 75. seanmahair:

No, thinking people are frightened to death (literally) by the incompetents in the government being the people administrating who gets health care and who doesn’t. These people haven’t been able to run anything but their mouths (and some of them can’t even do that. See Joe Biden).

They have screwed up:
Social Security
Schools
The Veterans Administration
Immigration
The War against drugs
Flu Shots
The Ecomomy
The Banking Business
et al

Anything. ANYTHING government gets it’s hands on it screws up. Anything liberal demoncrats get their grubby vampiric fangs on they destroy. They suck the life, liberty and any happiness out of life.

But hey, I’m a right wing, conservative, religious, extremist. My views don’t matter. The government says so. Don’t worry though I have medical problems which will probably get worse over the next 5-10 years so I won’t be around long.

I know I’m at the back of the bus.

Nov 8, 2009 - 4:04 pm 76. venividivici:

Now, maybe a few more folks from the party of no..progress.. will join those that know what is going on and keep things .. moving forward…Will they? who knows.

Did it ever occur to you that there might be more than one definition of “progress”? Or that there are certain ideas pertaining to individual liberty that cannot be “progressed” beyond?

No, because that would require you to actually think about something and not parrot someone else’s pre-approved bullet points.

The insurance companies, though still earning millions of dollars every day on the backs of working Americans, without providing little or nothing..finally lost, for once.

The net profit margins of insurance companies is about 3-4%, after all expenses. Yes, I know, the government is going to cut “administrative expenses”, blah, blah, blah. Yes, I’m sure that Congress is going to vote down budgets that include generous salaries and perks for the unionized government employees who staff the “public option”.

People like you live in the land that characters in fairy tales consider a fairy tale.

This would all be funny if it weren’t happening in the country where I happen to have been born.

Nov 8, 2009 - 4:14 pm 77. Behind Enemy Lines in MA:

This is all about Despotism. If this bill passes in the Senate, the Declaration of Independence exhorts us to act, as it is our Right, it is our Duty, to throw off such Government.

Nov 8, 2009 - 4:17 pm 78. Will:

Arthur
Good luck looking for doctors and nurses as well as long waiting times to get treated. If you think our current health care system is bad, wait until it’s free. If you want to know what government healthcare looks like, why don’t you make an appointment at Stroger Hospital or Cook County as we used to call it in Chicago.

Nov 8, 2009 - 4:30 pm 79. neverthoughtidseetheday:

It is already too late….the percentage of people who feel the way we do is far too small to matter.

Despite all your allusions to the Founders, you will meekly knuckle under, complaining that you can’t afford to fight the govt. You will pay your tax and complain, you will sit in lines for days and complain, but in the end, they won. They won, utterly and completely.

Game over.

I moved overseas for business 5 years ago with the intention to return. I now intend to stay. If I went back with the intention to fight for my rights back, I’d be alone.

Game over. Get a govt job and make sure you kids do, and get all you can for your family.

Nov 8, 2009 - 4:31 pm 80. jgreene:

The Congress and Senate are going to face a VIOLENT New American Revolution if they do not soon “cease and desist”. Of course it will begin peacefully in 2010 as we remove some of these Economically Illiterate, Constitutional Traitors from office.

Ultimately, if our Representatives (as they are now) no longer listen to their constituents wishes, they will be REMOVED.. by any means necessary. During the Revolution Patriots “hanged” traitorous supporters of the King.

The Congress has abrogated it’s responsibilities to listen to the People and to defend, protect and honor our Constitution. We, The People, have the Right and Duty to REMOVE THEM.

Nov 8, 2009 - 4:34 pm 81. ConservativeWanderer:

I know it’s been mentioned here a couple of times already in this thread, but permit me to add some ammo to the argument.

Quick quiz: What do these enterprises have in common? Farm and construction machinery, Tupperware, the railroads, Hershey sweets, Yum food brands and Yahoo? Answer: They’re all more profitable than the health insurance industry.

…

Profits barely exceeded 2 percent of revenues in the latest annual measure. This partly explains why the credit ratings of some of the largest insurers were downgraded to negative from stable heading into this year, as investors were warned of a stagnant if not shrinking market for private plans.

Who said that? Not Fox, nor World Net Daily nor any other “conservative” media outlet. It was, believe it or not, the Associated Press.

You lefties really need to keep up with the news, rather than just parroting the day’s Daily KOS talking points.

Nov 8, 2009 - 5:01 pm 82. Martin:

I notice that out of respect for those soldiers tragically murdered at Fort Hood, Texas, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is flying her breasts at half-staff.
(see photo on home page of today’s Drudge Report)

Nov 8, 2009 - 5:03 pm 83. Rashputin:

I hope the Chinese and others holding tons of our debt understand and believe that this will probably die in the Senate. Otherwise, they’re not going to wait a few years to see if the country recoils from the massive debt this administration is piling up. They’ll start dumping their dollars now while they’re worth at least 1/1200 of an ounce of gold rather than watching their value fall to 1/12000 of an ounce of gold. Not only that, but do you think the Japanese and other foreign automakers or other companies are going to keep their plants in the US when they know that they’re in line for the same kind of treatment from government that they get in third world chit holes?

I honestly can’t believe there are so many people who think it’s fine for the government itself to have the same level of ownership of the individual that the southern plantation owners had over their slaves. Anyone who doubts this bill gives them that level of control just hasn’t read it. Ever since the Clinton crowd lost their health care takeover attempt the democrat party has been in constant slash and burn campaign mode working towards the elimination of democracy. Even the most murderous attack on us since WWII couldn’t keep them from playing politics and aiming for the same slave owner level of control they’ve been working towards since the late seventies.

The democrat party has always been the party of slavery and the democrat party needs to be not defeated, but destroyed as a national political force. Anyone who has worked for the democrat party in the past may have an excuse, but anyone who works for that party from this day onward is an accessory to the democrat destruction of this nation and the enslavement the population. Those who are enjoying the democrat power plays now going on should remember one thing, this will not end well.

Regards

Nov 8, 2009 - 5:05 pm 84. Bilgeman:

#76 venividivici:
“This would all be funny if it weren’t happening in the country where I happen to have been born”

The country in which I happened to have been born has been occupied for over 140 years after an illegal war that crushed our bid for independence.

The Federal Leviathan that was born at Appomattox knows no bounds in it’s hunger for power.

And it doesn’t balk at trifles like under which “-ism” it expands, these are but fads…it all serves the Imperial American Government.

Our common error in 1776 was in only fighting for the principle that taxation without representation is unjust.

What should ALSO have been upheld is the principle that representation without taxation is equally unjust.

Secession is the future, and if this monstrosity passes and withstands court challenges, then secession’s day will be all the nearer.

There will be NO other viable alternative, you see.

Nov 8, 2009 - 5:15 pm 85. adam:

Leftists, from everything I have seen, simply have no conception of “insurance.” They don’t understand the concept of pooling risk in order to protect the possibility of further innovation (risk taking) while making failure, though consequential, less devastating for the individual. This is because economically they still think in terms of “primitive communism,” where everyone does their work and should just receive their fair share from the common pool. Entrepreneurs, including insurers, from this standpoint, are getting something for nothing and deserve to be squashed, after all their profits have been taken away. This is also why you never, never, hear leftists speak about individual freedom. For them, that’s also a sham, a way to try and evade your communal obligations and justify your “theft” from the common pool. Listen to them talk, including the ones commenting on this blog, and see if I’m wrong.

Nov 8, 2009 - 5:18 pm 86. venividivici:

77

It’s amazing that the evidence available shows that health care costs increase because of increased utilization as the population ages, advances in medical products/services (you get what you pay for) and the increase in the range of things that can be treated (we’re now paying for treatments for conditions that couldn’t be treated previously), yet these idiots want to blame insurance companies for the increase in costs.

http://www.ahip.org/content/default.aspx?docid=25123

INSURANCE PREMIUMS ONLY RISE COMMENSURATE WITH THE UNDERLYING COSTS OF CARE. Otherwise, insurance company margins would be going up, not be flat. It’s basic accounting.

Nov 8, 2009 - 5:22 pm 87. mttopforge:

These excuses for leadership in the house are letting the jeenie out of the bottle. They have no business cramming what they think is best for me down my throat. Then to crow about it as revolutionary change.
More than a little cheese has fallen off their collective communist cracker.
What the hell are these worthies think they are doing. It boggles the mind to think these people live in the US of A. I have to say they need to be all shipped off the Castro’s or Kim L Jongs paradise. Give em a good old fashioned dose of realty. They need it real bad.
What is it going to take to insure our liberty and self-determination and reverse the path back to constitutional government?

Nov 8, 2009 - 5:40 pm 88. Carol:

Delia – No way! YOU, and others like you, are the heart and soul of America. Don’t allow the liberals to define you or your feelings about your country. WE must define ourselves and our nation. Yes, this is an enormous challenge, but we must all be willing to sound the bell and carry our message forward. I don’t know where this will lead or if I will see things turn around in my lifetime. I only know that I must do my part every day, despite the obstacles before me, and never let anyone take away my pride in what it means to be American. Obama and his minions do not define that for me. Please don’t let them do so for you.

Nov 8, 2009 - 5:43 pm 89. Religious Constitution:

This quote came from a church leader just recently:

“You and I have heard all our lives that the time will come when the Constitution shall hang by a thread.
I do not know whether it is a thread or a small rope by which it now hangs,
but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance.
“I have said to you before, brethren, that to me the Constitution is a part of my religion. In its place it is just as much a part of my religion as any other part. It is a part of my religion because it is one of those institutions which God has set upon this country for His own purposes.

Are we willing to fight for our religion and our country,
or will we allow this administration to cut the threads of our constitution?

Democrats think they are sharpening their knives on our stupidity,
inaction, and complacency.

Nov 8, 2009 - 6:26 pm 90. Towering Barbarian:

Ellen K. of #9,
Very true. Given what we know of what has happened in both England and France I wonder how many people at the grass roots would still support this nonsense if they realized that they were signing their own death warrents by doing so? After all, sooner or later they will be elderly as well and not all of them will be politically connected.

Conservative Wanderer of #26,
You make a good point. It ain’t over until the Fat Lady sings! It’s worth remembering that because of gerrymandering the Senate is actually more responsive to the popular will than the House is. ^_^

Kochevnik of #7, Now and Then of #56 and Poor Citizen of #60,
Go, Lemmings, Go! My only objection is that you are trying to take the rest of us along with you.

Arthur of #74,
I hope you enjoy your cruise on the Titanic. That iceberg your political ship is going to run into when the American people react to being scammed is yours, all yours, and you and your fellow libs are entirely welcome to it! ^_~

Nov 8, 2009 - 6:26 pm 91. The shadow of the jackboot… » The Anchoress | A First Things Blog:

[...] “What it all means” Additional thoughts On Benedict’s words Trust is always difficult, always rewarded Trust [...]

Nov 8, 2009 - 7:08 pm 92. adam:

We are certainly living in interesting times. Even a well-crafted, popular transition to socialized medicine wouldn’t work now–the complexity and constant innovation characteristic of medicine today puts it well beyond the capacities of even the wisest government to manage. People who want the government to run health care must be thinking, perhaps unconsciously, of a much more traditional, authoritarian, version of health care, where there were few options and doctors essentially chose the best one for patients–only then would the remaining question be, how would this get paid for. But the monstrosity just passed by the house is the opposite of well crafted and wise–it’s almost as if the Democrats wanted to produce a parody of 30 years of conservative critiques of “big government.” It is designed, should anything like it ever become law, to create a whole range of almost instantaneous crises-I doubt that most people involved in health care and insurance would have the slightest idea what it’s actually requiring them to do. Doctors and hospitals, much less insurance companies, would have to hire new staffs, or consultants, or lawyers, just to help them understand what they need to do to avoid violating the law. The best that can be hoped for is that it will just crash of it’s own accord, under it’s own weight.

Nov 8, 2009 - 7:41 pm 93. Clive Moebeetie:

Old John C. Calhoun
Moldering in the grave
From his slumbering swoon
Beneath a gravestone laid
Lifted up his dewy head
And one loud word said
“Nullification”

Will that save the Nation?

Nov 8, 2009 - 7:50 pm 94. anonymous:

72. Bilgeman: #67 Anonymous: “Wow. Mr. K is absolutely unhinged by the fact that millions of his fellow Americans might now be able to get the healthcare they need and deserve…..”
Nobody “deserves” anything. They get what they can afford.

Thank you, Bilgeman! Finally, an honest statement of the right-wing attitude towards those who have to cope with financially ruinous illness.

Nov 8, 2009 - 7:58 pm 95. Trainwreck:

These morons who think that this is a victory against evil, profit-driven health insurance companies better realize that the profits made by these companies are only $8 billion, while FIVE TIMES as much money is lost every year from medicaid, medicare due to waste, fraud and abuse.

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:02 pm 96. Orson:

People~

It is time to think in terms of civil war.

These bills of ObamaCare are crimes and usurpations against the Constitution. The traitors must be held to account.

Patriots must organize to resist this counter-revolution! Liberty must be defended at all costs.

Since children are in charge of the government, WE must be stout and stern as our founders, or else the Republic is lost. Only with the prospect of war at their backs can these kids be trusted to act to defend the Constitution.

Who is with me?

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:12 pm 97. Webutante:

This is the best piece I’ve seen, Roger, in the aftermath of this disastrous passage in the House.

It portends the possibility of a grave loss of freedom and yet another divergence from the enumerated powers of the Constitution.

Without doubt, my Scotch-Irish southern kin folk aren’t going to take a lot more of this forced-feeding. Though we don’t know how it will all unfold, it will eventually trigger a crisis of proportions we’ve not seen in our lifetimes. Perhaps our raising hell in the Senate will forstall a more massive showdown, but I’m not counting on it. This is only part of the gathering perfect storm.

Until things are reversed, there will be a burgeoning black market in high-level healthcare off-shore. And medical tourism businesses will flourish, not to mention medical air-taxis to near and far.

Nov 8, 2009 - 8:26 pm 98. McCool:

Everyone is blaming the democrats what about republicans. We had sat for hours fighting to remove abortion funding from the bill and in return all the dems had to give up was abortion funding to make this bill appeal to enough blue dogs to pass. The social conservatives are ruining the repulican party And causing republicans to go independant or 3rd party in droves. Had we left the abortion funding in the bill no blue dogs in a conservative state would have touched it. But the social right would rather have Obama care without abortion funding pass then to kill the the bill in general with it. Republicans have shown not leadership for there party at all.

Nov 8, 2009 - 9:01 pm 99. Dred:

The USA is not a ship; we don’t have to go down with it.

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:00 pm 100. darcy:

to Rashputin #83, who writes:

“I honestly can’t believe there are so many people who think it’s fine for the government itself to have the same level of ownership of the individual that the southern plantation owners had over their slaves.”

To which I reply: Finally!! Someone is saying what I’ve been thinking all day.

And isn’t it interesting the chronology of it all: First, through the not-so-Great Society and the failed War On Poverty, DC do-gooders and marxists re-enslaved and destroyed the Black Family; and since that worked out so well, they’ve decided it’s high time to come after the rest of us.

Target Practice, anyone??

Nov 8, 2009 - 10:41 pm 101. venividivici:

84

Secession is the future, and if this monstrosity passes and withstands court challenges, then secession’s day will be all the nearer.

There will be NO other viable alternative, you see.

I agree. The Left earns a disproportionate share of its day-to-day income from the entitlement state’s appropriations from the private sector. There is little chance that rational discussions of principle will persuade them to give up their income stream just because the Constitutional principle of limited government. There is no way to persuade someone, whose entire training and professional value lies in the expansion of the role of the state, not to expand the role of the state.

As you say, the only viable alternative is for those who do believe in that principle and want to live by it to remove themselves from living under the same sphere of governance as those who derive their sustenance from the violation of that principle.

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:39 pm 102. WellEducatedCad:

In the Soviet Union, there were 2 types of hospitals- those for the Communist Party members and those for the “common people”. Since our Dear Leaders seem to be intent on excusing themselves from their own health care plan, it’s easy to see where we are headed. And yes, doctors can accept cash payments from Medicare patients- but only if they opt out of Medicare totally. Which is looking like a better idea everyday. As for Medicaid? How many grocery stores would accept Food Stamps if they only paid 38 cents for a dollars worth of food? Medicaid pays an average of 38 cents for a dollars worth of health care. We cannot afford to accept it. The next step for the government is to force us to accept these or lose our licenses. Medicaid and Medicare have been an economic disaster and yet the government is intent on forcing it onto the entire population . Guess what the result will be. God help us all. If you are offended by my use of the word GOD, well, go f*ck yourself.

Nov 8, 2009 - 11:53 pm 103. Pajamas Media » Should the GOP Help the Democrats Govern?:

[...] unavoidable to have seen the kind of roadblocks thrown up to prevent passage. But what about health care reform? Cap and trade? Card [...]

Nov 9, 2009 - 1:34 am 104. Brian:

Pelosi care is as unconstitutional as it gets. The government continually oversteps their authority. It’s time to throw these criminals out of office.

Nov 9, 2009 - 5:20 am 105. venividivici:

94

Thank you, Bilgeman! Finally, an honest statement of the right-wing attitude towards those who have to cope with financially ruinous illness.

I presume that you’ve given all of your “extra” money to charity hospitals to help those coping with financially ruinous illness now, right?

If not, why?

Nov 9, 2009 - 6:24 am 106. Will:

anonymous
Your comment in 94 reveals your amazing stupidity. Medicare is one of the big reasons why a lot of hospitals in the United States had closed down due to bankruptcies and doctors closed down their practices. They pay way less than the actual cost of the service and what’s worse, they are always late in paying.

Nov 9, 2009 - 6:39 am 107. Paul -Indiana:

The government couldn’t even get the H1N1 vaccine delivered on time. That required no consultations, no legislation, no analysis, no opposition. How can anyone possibly believe that government run health care could work?

Nov 9, 2009 - 6:41 am 108. anonymous:

105. venividivici: “94 …. I presume that you’ve given all of your “extra” money to charity hospitals to help those coping with financially ruinous illness now, right?”

I’ve done BETTER than that. In addition to giving charity, I’ve supported the Dem’s health care initiatives with the hope that people in need won’t have to depend on charity. Thanks for asking!

Nov 9, 2009 - 6:55 am 109. Harris Tweed:

God forbid this crock of Obama-Pelosi should actually become law. But if it does, how difficult will it be to eviscerate it if Conservatives are back in power in 2010?

Nov 9, 2009 - 6:59 am 110. anonymous:

106. Will: “anonymous Your comment in 94 reveals your amazing stupidity. Medicare is one of the big reasons why a lot of hospitals in the United States had closed down due to bankruptcies and doctors closed down their practices.”

Well then, the remedy is obvious: End Medicare and let the elderly go to the charity hospitals #105 seems to favor.

Nov 9, 2009 - 7:07 am 111. biblio44:

107. Paul -Indiana: “The government couldn’t even get the H1N1 vaccine delivered on time.”

Right! Instead of trying to mix batches of vaccine in the White House basement, the gov’t should have enlisted the help of major private-sector pharmaceutical companies.

Nov 9, 2009 - 7:11 am 112. Seraphim:

Okay, let me get this straight.

We have the fattest, laziest, most obese ‘poor’ people on the planet and now we are supposed to pay for their diabetes, high blood pressure, colon cancer, blood pressure medication, high cholesterol, heart disease bills too?

While poor, pitiful fatty sits on his or her ass playing video games, watching cable tv on their flat screen televisions they bought on the Black Friday stampede at Wally World and chatting on their cellphones with their fellow welfare recipients about how much cash they can get for their food stamps so they can buy cigarettes and marijuana instead of food for their five babies they birfed, the hard workers of America are supposed to pay not only for that but for their rising medical bills that they don’t pay anyhow because they use medical coupons that working Americans pay for too.

No, this isn’t about ‘poor’ people at all.

This is about the government owning every aspect of our lives.

No thanks and FU.

Nov 9, 2009 - 7:54 am 113. Cybergeezer:

Pelosi shouts “allahu akbar”.

Nov 9, 2009 - 8:23 am 114. Will:

JDS
Considering that before Medicare, a lot of sick people were able to get treated in hospitals for free due to charity, I like our chances . And oh btw, I rather give freely and willingly to charity with my money and time than have the government forced it from me.

Ah yes,the Democrat health care initiatives. Forcing others to cough up their hard earned money by means of taxes to help the poor. In other words, having them depend on government dole for their health care rather than charity and thereby they can have their votes. Sorry,poor people are not proles and our income does not belong to the government.

Nov 9, 2009 - 8:42 am 115. vivo:

Congratulations, Democrat congressmen!

If you divide one trillion $’s by 306 million USA citizens, you get $3,268. Divide this by 10 years and you get a cost of $327 per year per citizen. Is that going to brake the country?

Are all Republicans going to refuse public health care? They are going to buy their own private policies, right?

Let the fun begin . . .

Nov 9, 2009 - 8:55 am 116. Kansas City Grandma:

I was at the grocery store yesterday morning (after the vote), and the line was moving slower than usual because EVERYONE was taking time to talk about the healthcare bill. Nobody was talking about the pro-life amendment, because we don’t like to discuss controversial subjects in public like that. The reason everyone in the store felt free to vent their anger over the healthcare vote in the House is that NOBODY WANTS THIS MESS.

I predict in the next election all an opponent to those who voted for this bill will have to do is remind voters of this one vote.

Gotta go brew a cuppa tea.

Nov 9, 2009 - 9:03 am 117. jodetoad:

It’s past time to think about 1) what we do up until the Senate votes, and 2) what we do if the Senate passes something.

Somebody above mentioned swarming the offices of Senators, and some new creative ideas wouldn’t hurt.

If the Senate passes it, it’s a foregone conclusion that the big O will sign it, so think out your alternatives. I can think of a few, we need a place to bounce around ideas.

Nov 9, 2009 - 9:04 am 118. Sapwolf:

If a variation that is half as bad passes the Senate, the country is another step closer to civil war.

It’s coming. If we don’t vote out the Dems and statists in 2010 in the House, pick up more senate seats with a revitalized GOP that is not led by Graham and McCain but real libertarians and conservatives, vote to repeal this legislation and introduce a real reform effort not involving government, and make it clear this will split the country and lead to war, the statist left will continue to overstep and open conflict will result.

Let’s do everything we can to fight this 100% in the Senate, and encourage the GOP to filibuster ANY legislation which will enlarge the power of the federal government over healthcare.

It is up to us to fight and win legislatively to avoid the larger bloody conflict down the road as the US economy further deteriorates under huge new taxes and fees that cannot possibly be afforded without imploding the GDP.

Nov 9, 2009 - 9:10 am 119. Albert:

For so many of the people here who are very close to being diagnosed as being a danger to themselves or others, i.e. insane, you will be grateful, I’m sure, when you are able to afford the cost of your lengthly treatment for paranoid psychosis, because of health care reform. As it is now, the loonies here would likely be refused treatment because their paranoia would be considered an existing precondition, a condition that has posed a serious threat to all who encountered them.

Nov 9, 2009 - 9:29 am 120. Bilgeman:

#108 anonymous:
“I’ve done BETTER than that. In addition to giving charity, I’ve supported the Dem’s health care initiatives with the hope that people in need won’t have to depend on charity. Thanks for asking!”

You seem to feel pretty good about yourself for giving away other people’s money.

Total cognitive dissonance about your own role in creating those “people in need” you emotionally masturbate yourself about helping, though.

Nov 9, 2009 - 9:50 am 121. Bilgeman:

$112 Seraphim:
“We have the fattest, laziest, most obese ‘poor’ people on the planet and now we are supposed to pay for their diabetes, high blood pressure, colon cancer, blood pressure medication, high cholesterol, heart disease bills too?

While poor, pitiful fatty sits on his or her ass playing video games, watching cable tv on their flat screen televisions they bought on the Black Friday stampede at Wally World and chatting on their cellphones with their fellow welfare recipients about how much cash they can get for their food stamps so they can buy cigarettes and marijuana instead of food for their five babies they birfed, the hard workers of America are supposed to pay not only for that but for their rising medical bills that they don’t pay anyhow because they use medical coupons that working Americans pay for too.”

Ah…yup.

And don’t forget the holistic therapeutic massages…and the self-esteem aromatherapies!

Nov 9, 2009 - 9:53 am 122. You arrogant ass. You’ve killed us! « Temple of Mut:

[...] to note that many of my blogosphere compatriots referenced “Star Wars” to describe their disgust for the U.S. House of Representatives’ passage of their healthcare reform bill t…. I love “Star Wars” and appreciate the [...]

Nov 9, 2009 - 10:18 am 123. Albert:

#112…instead of “‘poor’ people” please insert…children, adolescents, young people, middle aged people, the elderly, rich, poor, white, black, brown, religious, irreligious, in short, ‘people’

The US is the unhealthiest industrialized country, period.

Nov 9, 2009 - 10:21 am 124. biblio44:

112. Seraphim: “We have the fattest, laziest, most obese ‘poor’ people on the planet and now we are supposed to pay for their diabetes, high blood pressure, colon cancer, blood pressure medication, high cholesterol, heart disease bills too?”

Congrats, Roger, your message is not falling on deaf ears!

Nov 9, 2009 - 10:40 am 125. Rashputin:

WellEducatedCad – (102)

Medicaid pays an average of 38 cents for a dollars worth of health care. We cannot afford to accept it. The next step for the government is to force us to accept these or lose our licenses.

Which, of course, insures that the cost of services will always inflate to the point that the 38 cents covers the real cost and another three to five the gross profit. The remaining forty-three cents of increase are there to ensure that the real cost is covered, and it’s what the congress critters swear is caused by greed when it is actually the natural and inevitable result of refusing to pay the true cost in the first place.

Now, the increase insures that the actual cost is covered by the 38 cents the government pays, which means that the balance is negotiated away with groups and insurance companies who pay what the medical care costs rather than the 38 cents. So, the increases to groups and companies is a direct reflection of the growth in actual costs, or, a direct reflection of how much the government reduced the amount they pay. It is never the whole forty-three cents of padding that gets negotiated away, though, because about twenty cents of that pad is needed to ensure there are escrow accounts around sufficient to fight or pay stupid legal cases. Anyone who watches television knows that the miracle drug being advertised this year with reams of fine print and caution will be the same thing the various ambulance chasers will be telling you is horrible next year. Well, at least the drugs that are profitable. Those that are potentially harmful are not the issue; the ones that make a profit are the target. Many a drug has side effects; many a patient gets the wrong drug by mistake and has problems. Try getting an attorney to pursue that and you’ll find that they’re not willing to do it unless they can bundle up a class action suit and go after, not the doctor, but the insurance company or the hospital.

So, we have the government deciding that since they’ve forced the medical system in this country to pad their bills in order to provide at cost services to those on government programs, they now must punish that system and all who it serves for having the gall to find a way around the government screwing them. That’s the basic fact of the situation; the government is out to punish the medical profession and all those who are in it for not playing nice with the democrat thugs who have been stealing money from the medical system for decades to pay for votes.

If anyone doubts that punishment is the real goal, just look at the fine treatment the UAW is getting. Oh, they have their own auto company now, and they have their great benefits. But did you notice? They’re going to be both taxed on the benefits and charged a fee based on how much superior their benefits are to what the government thinks is a basic set of benefits. So, sure, let the UAW have all they want, because as slaves of the democrat party (and you can’t argue that they’re not now that it they and the fed who OWN GM and Chrysler) it’s all going to be taken away with the other hand. The UAW actually no longer exists; only the democrat socialist autoworkers exist. Any local, or other organized entity that dares stray from the democrat fold will suddenly find itself part of the next, streamlining of the industry that the government now runs.

The medical profession wouldn’t play ball like the UAW did, so now it will take force to put them in the same position. The only problem is, the medical profession and infrastructure that took 75 years to build and refine, will evaporate within five years of this law being enacted. The UAW will linger for at least twelve or fifteen since it was nice and agreed to become enslaved.

Regards

Nov 9, 2009 - 11:25 am 126. Rashputin:

“Well then, the remedy is obvious: End Medicare and let the elderly go to the charity hospitals #105 seems to favor.”

Do you have any idea how much charity care was squeezed out of the system by the introduction of Medicare? Please, you showed you were stupid, you don’t have to prove you’re ignorant as well. Maybe you should consider reading something not on the revisionist history list of your leftist pals or professors. I know for a fact that there were thousands of patients who were paying not one cent for treatment years ago, and when the Medicare regulations went into effect it became impossible to both give away service based on the standards of the institution and receive Medicare funding at the same institution. Worse still, if you were not approved to receive or chose not to receive Medicare, insurance companies took you off of the approved institution list.

So, go ahead and show everyone you’re stupid enough to think this sort of federal boondoggle is a good thing, but don’t bother trying to make mocking points when they just prove that you haven’t any clue as to what the real history of federal extortion in the medical field has been ever since the sixties.

have a nice day

Nov 9, 2009 - 11:35 am 127. Carol:

The majority of Americans are against this bill, and yet they pass it. Remind you of anything?

Nov 9, 2009 - 12:10 pm 128. Duke of Sharon:

What it’s about is violence.

The sine qua non of government–its definining element, the one thing that nothing else has–is a legal monopoly on the use of violence to accomplish its ends.

The thing to which Conservatives conserve is the the principle that the violent power we citizens assigned to the Federal Government when we created it should be very narrowly employed.

The most coherent definition of a Liberal is one who would liberally allow the use of violence upon citizens to accomplish his or her aims.

Thanks to these liberals, our medical care will now be controlled by violence.

Nov 9, 2009 - 12:14 pm 129. venividivici:

108. anonymous:

I’ve done BETTER than that. In addition to giving charity, I’ve supported the Dem’s health care initiatives with the hope that people in need won’t have to depend on charity. Thanks for asking!

So, you’re too much of a coward to take my money directly, so you need to get the government to do it for you. Just remember that principle when someone who thinks it’s just dandy to raise military spending gets in office, motherf*cker.

I hope you work in an industry which requires middle-class consumer discretionary income and that will be decimated when the middle class has to divert its spending from your industry to health care taxes to pay for those charity cases. Then again, that’s assuming a parasite like you works at all.

Nov 9, 2009 - 2:14 pm 130. venividivici:

I’ve done BETTER than that. In addition to giving charity, I’ve supported the Dem’s health care initiatives with the hope that people in need won’t have to depend on charity. Thanks for asking!

Also, you do realize that Medicare has the highest ratio of denied claims among major insurance providers, right?

What makes you think the “public option” wouldn’t do the same, thus creating even more charity cases?

As I said above, you people live a world that characters in fairy tales would consider a fairy tale.

http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/06/30/medicare-more-likely-to-deny-claims-than-commerical-health-insurers/

Nov 9, 2009 - 2:32 pm 131. dennymack:

What bothers me about the whole debate is that mentioning a Constitutional argument is considered a mark of extremist right wing-nuttery. (I.e. “Where in the Constitution does the Federal Government get this power? And what about the Tenth Amendment? Whacko!)
Madison was right about not putting our faith in walls of parchment. We have let government get big enough that it has bought its own faction by pitting one half of the people against the other half of the people. Oh, the power to disperse the wealth of others! As mighty as gravity, and just as inevitable.
Hopefully we can stave this off until the next election, at which time our people will be given a test. Let’s hope we pass.

Nov 9, 2009 - 3:29 pm 132. myth buster:

That asshole coward who posted as anonymous can’t even muster the courage to post under a screen name. Keep your grubby hands out of my wallet!

Nov 9, 2009 - 7:26 pm 133. Seraphim:

[121.], can’t forget the incense and peppermints for the downtrodden.

[123.]:

The US is the unhealthiest industrialized country, period.

Yes, and most of it is self-afflicted. Obesity in young and old alike is epidemic in the USA and the cause of numerous detrimental, chronic, quality-of-life-altering, expensive-to-treat health issues. All of the health care printed tax dollars can provide won’t cure gluttony and laziness.

[124.], obviously, madame, you’re part of the problem. Put down the greasy pork chops and donate them to the obese diabetics living on disability due to their inability to push their fat asses away from the table. Poor Whites, African Americans and Hispanics have the worst obesity problems and blaming that on lack of quality food is simply pathetic enabling.

How many people with piss poor personal habits do tax payers need to support? If you want to smoke, drink and eat artery clogging, diabetes and cancer inducing foods then, by all means, go for it, but, don’t expect any pity or money from me while you’re at it and don’t affect my health care and way of life because of your bad decision to not take proper responsibility for your own health. If you want to spend money on cigarettes, drugs, alcohol and junk foods then you better damned well be able to afford your own health insurance and if you’re uninsurable because of your habits, well, that is a little thing called ‘consequences’ for your own actions.

Take your government health-care ponzi scheme and shove it.

Thanks.

Nov 10, 2009 - 5:36 am 134. venividivici:

119. Albert:

For so many of the people here who are very close to being diagnosed as being a danger to themselves or others, i.e. insane, you will be grateful, I’m sure, when you are able to afford the cost of your lengthly treatment for paranoid psychosis, because of health care reform.

Wow, this is so awesomely persuasive, I’m going to start supporting ObamaCare 100%.

How exactly am I a danger to myself or others, when left alone? It’s when scum like you try to rob me that I become a danger, not to myself, but to you. Ergo, don’t try to rob me and there won’t be any problem. It seems you’re the one who’s a danger to others, reaching into their wallets where you don’t belong. Your smug little self just seems to think it’s got a right to be there. Now that’s insane.

Nov 10, 2009 - 6:17 am 135. Bill:

Some very good comments here. Refreshing to know that Americans are waking up…albiet a bit late, hopefully not too late! As many have already said, this Health “CARE” bill is simply one of many steps designed and intended to disrupt American economy and bleed American wealth into a caldron of stolen humanity. I find it interesting if not intolerable that so many of us continue to refer to Obama as “Our President”. This man is not and never will be a legitimate President. I, for one, am tired of waiting for him to “Prove” as every president before him has had to do…that he is a Natural born American citizen! He hasn’t, he won’t..he can’t! He is simply a foreign pawn placed on the board by our enemies for the purpose of destroying our country. This “Health” sharade is but one of thousands of phoney ploys intended to disrupt, destroy, endanger, imprison and impoverish American citizens. We have been mislead and lied to! So few of us even understand that the “Federal Government” illegally established in 1913 is not owned or operated by “our” government! It is a privately owned organization formed in the dead of night (just like this Health Care Bill) for the purpose and intention of stealing American wealth. It was the first giant step in a Century’s old ongoing plan to concur a people that could not be beaten by physical might. They chose the stealthy approach…and they have all but succeeded already. This “Health Care” bill is simply another ploy, another distraction, another link in a huge chain of tools designed to chip away at the very fabric of this once great nation. Our Freedom, our Liberty, our Independence, our Pride…and more importantly, our Heritage! Let us hope that the American people still have the courage to fight. If we can only remember that these politicians and lawmakers only amount to aproximately 550 (human beings?) and that they are making laws and policies (which they often put themselves above) for aproximately 250 million American citizens…we must defeat them and we must start by defeating this Health Care bill!

Nov 10, 2009 - 10:26 am 136. Anjika:

Hmm… for those who think passage of the “healthcare” bill would actually be good for sick people, here’s my story:

A few years ago, I developed a bad joint/muscle problem at an unusually young age. As a result, I accumulated ruinous debt because of medical bills.

Many, er, compassionate people might think therefore that I’m a natural advocate for more government intervention in health care.

But though I got into debt, I also got cured. The way I see it, cases like mine, debt and all, are an argument for *less* government intervention in health care, not more:

In other countries, I wouldn’t have gone into as much debt, true — because I wouldn’t have been cured. It took the ingenuity of an independent-minded doctor willing to innovate (not a doctor following a centrally-approved protocol) to figure out what exactly was wrong and what would help me. I know that the treatments that finally helped me are unavailable in other countries. In another country, I probably would’ve just been given opiates for the pain and been told to go on the dole as “permanently disabled”.

So yes, I got into debt and my credit rating (for now) is “ruined”. But that’s a small price to pay for getting healthy — getting a second chance to be a productive member of society!

Once I began to get well, I began paying off my debts through part-time work. Now I’m finishing my degree. I just got married. I have a future again!

In a country with a more centralized medical regime, I wouldn’t have had this opportunity.

When I heard that the “healthcare” bill passed the House, I sat down and cried. I felt guilty for putting time into my studies instead of doing my civic duty in vocally opposing this monstrosity.

My degree is in a “hard” science. But now I’m thinking that instead of continuing in that field, I should switch to economics and become a more active advocate of freedom. We have so much to lose (and we’ve lost so much already).

This former “sicko” is more than happy to take a stand with the “party of no” against these alleged “reforms” that would further limit our health freedoms. Insofar as I am my brother’s keeper, I could think of nothing crueler than to further limit his freedoms over his own body should he fall ill.

There are ways to improve health care in this country. Allow purchase of insurance across state lines, tort reform, etc. But not this bill! Please not this bill! This bill is how *not* to love your neighbor!

Nov 10, 2009 - 1:32 pm 137. jimmy:

Expat Americans Beware! The Healthcare bill in will require every American Citizen living abroad to file taxes every year and to pay a tax up to $1900. You won’t be able to use the new healthcare, but you will get to pay $1900 for it!

“Democrats Abroad” is working with Senate staff to include an exemption for Americans residing abroad.

I would advise American Citizens who live abroad from the United States should send emails and faxes as recommended here.

Nov 11, 2009 - 12:13 am 138. Delia:

136. Anjika,

Your story was very compelling and I feel exactly the same way as you! I’d rather have the OPPORTUNITY to go into debt in order to save my daughter’s, husband’s or my own life!

Money means very little when it comes to life and limb. I know if my daughter were dying, I would give a frick less about money and I’d sell my home and spend every last dollar I could to save her. If the government turns that scenario in to a ‘waiting game’ nightmare or worse a ‘refusal’ then what happens to my child?????

This ‘health/death-care’ crap is nothing more than a power grabbing scheme that is going to
bankrupt our country and reduce our citizenry to corralled barnyard animals.

Government run health-care?

Nov 11, 2009 - 9:34 am 139. originofhalloween:

[...] So for all that considered this a magic bullet, I hope you are patient, because this will be a long time in coming and the results will be higher taxes and fewer jobs. If you don#8217;t like those ideas, contact your representatives as well #8230;. Tell Democrat Senators that if they vote for any health -care reform bill, that you#8217;ll actively support their opponent with your voice and your wallet. You might even promise them a one-time donation if they vote against it (of course #8230;Continue Reading#8230; [...]

Nov 21, 2009 - 8:46 am

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