Arafat was also based in Jordan until he got kicked out of there.I can’t say for sure but I think it was because of the 11 assasination attempts on the King that got him in trouble. I am sure if Arafat had gone to the World Court he could have got a judgement that Jordan was trampling on his freedom of speech and that the attempted murder of the King was not a valid factor in considering his deportation but he was to busy running for his life to file a complaint. Then he went to Lebanon and helped foment the bloody civil war that eventually made the country a colony of Syria.Of course this does not prove that Arafat is not a man of peace and of course he is well deserving of his Nobel peace prize.

That is, until the Iraqis invaded in ‘90, and Palestinians joyously helped turn in various Kuwaitis. This was apart from the roof-top dance parties in the West Bank and Gaza when SCUDs landed on their (and Israeli) heads.

Not surprisingly, when the Kuwaitis got their country back, they booted all the Palestinians (and the Palestinians argued that this was another great injustice done to them).

As others have noted, the Palestinians seem to never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Let the tano’s and the Roberts go on about the UN and the international court. The Wall is going up. The Palestinian people, who have been suffering for years and used as props by their Arab bretheren to continue their war against Israel will have to rise up and overthrow Arafat themselves before this issue gets settled.Can you imagine if we had left the refugees from Vietnam and Cuba rot in the federal prisons until democracy is restored in both those countries. That is what the Arab countries have done to their “Arab ‘ brothers. Instead of taking them into their countries and letting them live their until the issue was settled they have used them as Human barganing chips by making them fester in this camps.These are people who share their language and their religion and would have no trouble adapting to live with their brothers. instead they let them rot in a over populated palestine because they know they wiil resort to killing Israeli’s which is their goal.we took in the vietnamese and the cubans and incorporated them in our country, even though many did not speak English and had lived in totally different cultures.Many of the Arab countries have imported labor from sub-saharan africa instead of bringing in Palestinians who would blend in quicker. Why? Because they want the conditions to become so bad that the Palestinians will continue the work they couldn’t do in the three arab Israeli wars.The crocadile tears they shed for their brothers are so false and untrue. The sooner the wall is finished the quicker the Palestinians will realize that they have been fooled by that thug

Arafat and then there might be a solution to this misery that Arafat has no intention of ending.

Those were not simply bloviations, those were premeditated, consciously unleashed bloviations in large part designed to communicate contempt, not an attempt to engage (though there was plenty there that was perfectly intelligible as well). The very act of engagement would inherently imply at least a modicum of respect for both the ICJ’s decision as well as your own contrived, even contortionist defense of the decision. That minimum level of respect is nonexistent for various reasons, not the least of which is you have still failed to take up the China/Tibet comparison. Given the fact the judge cum joker cum geopolitical thief who rendered the decision was Chinese, that’s more than a little relevant.

I’d ennumerate yet other reasons for that lack of respect but you haven’t even been able to represent the dissenting judge’s declaration without the all too typical – and predictable – smoke screen comprised of highly leveraged presumption, specious arrogations and similar qualities that reflect more of a superficial, pro forma performance than something grounded in a more substantive and more meaningful content.

“Why hasnt Israel spent the past 37 years doing what we are trying to do in Afghanistan, or Iraq? Trying to find people to work with to help set up democratic and representative governance? Even today, when there is any chance of something like that emerging, the Israelis do all they can to undermine it.”

You do not have a fing clue what the F you are even talking about. I love that last sentence especially which demonstrates someone just spewing deluded nonsense they think or made up in their head and regigitate.

I have met Palestinians and spoken on the phone with them, not when the PLO is around and they all say the PLO not Israel is the reason there is no chance for democracy there. The thugocracy is the reason why the Territories have deteriorated into a Mafia wild west where gangs rape, steal and murder at will without the reportage of the “Western Press”. And that was brought to you by Oslo. So anyone who can say “Even now when there is a chance for democracy what does Israel do?” doesn’t have a fing clue what they are talking about.

And as far as track record of building in the Territories. During the 19 years of Jordan and Egypt the West Bank and Gaza were complete shitholes. They had no electricity, sewage, hospitals or Universities, NADA. The population declined actually.

Under Israeli Civil Administration they got all of the above and since 67 the population in Gaza went from 250,000 to 1,000,000 (Love to hear the left wing wackos talk about “Genocide” of Palestinians)

“maybe the entire territory could be one state, with the Jews bringing to that state their experience and guidance in terms of democracy. But that aint gonna happen. It is against the very concept of Zionism.”

Maybe you could get a clue and they’ll you’d at least have 1 clue?

Another pearl from Tano:

But the Jewish presence in the WB as it stands now is illegal, and brought about through force.

It was brought by force as a result of defensive war.

Israel was also fullfilling her obligations under Oslo until start of the intifada and gave to Palestinians almost full self rule in Gaza and parts of WB.

What is PLO/PA track record?

Arguing with Tano is like pushing the air. He lives in different world and his arguments are out of this world.

Examples?

“maybe the entire territory could be one state, with the Jews bringing to that state their experience and guidance in terms of democracy. But that aint gonna happen. It is against the very concept of Zionism.”

No, it goes against the reality of Palestinian Arab culture. There is no tradition of democracy, rule of law, women’s rights, gay rights…. it would be insane for Israel to beome part of a state where the majority are people who are autocratic, hate Jews, and treat women and gays like shit. And who repeatedly support tyrants like Saddam. (The Pals just made anothe demonstration this week insupport of Saddam after he appeared on TV in the courtroom – you want people like that ruling your country?)

“You once again make the absurd claim that they will return all the land when they get peace.”

It isn’t absurd, because Israel already did that exact thing. In Sinai. Israel returned it, and uprooted all the settlements that were there. And many Israelis were against it too, but it was done. By a “rightwing” government.

So Israel has the track record, regardless of whether you think it’s absurd.

What is the Palestinian track record? What is absurd is to treat the Pals like some reified community of reasonable people, instead of looking at how they actually behave.

Excuse me? Perhaps you are forgetting that Israel has settled 400,000 people on that land. And that the stated position of one of the major parties in Israel was, for a long time, to build a greater Israel by annexing the WB.

If there were 8 million Jews living there they would annex part of the West Bank and the rest would go to Jordan which was the plan in 67 so you are partially correct there. Plus, the Arab East Jerusalemites don’t want to go to the PLO they want to remain in Israel governed by Israel as they all now are trying to flee to the Israeli side.

You seem to be claiming that if only the Palestinians would stop committing terrorist acts, then the Israelis would be glad to return all the land east of the Green line. That is absurd.

IS THAT SO TANO?

The Arabs rejected 242 outright.

The Arabs rejected Israel’s exact offer after the 67 War. I believe the exact quote was -

“No recognition, no negotiation, no compromise”

(that’s not it exactly someone fill in exact words)

Mike writes,

“Settlements are not illegal unless Israel forces its population to move into those territories.

Additionally, there is strong legal standing that the settlements are not governed by the Geneva Convention.”

TANO -

False, and downright absurd, on both counts. Israel is the occupying power and has the responsibilites to follow international law. That is a position that the United States has held throughout the past 37 years. Israel has no right to allow the settlement of occupied land by its population.

Again YOU ARE WRONG….. but you like hearing yourself speak at least.

http://palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_4thgeneva.php

Israel rejects applying the Fourth Geneva Convention to Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, stating that those territories were captured in 1967 as a result of a defensive war against Jordan and Egypt, countries which had illegally occupied them since 1948.

Furthermore, it is Article 49 that is commonly cited to accuse Israel of violating the Fourth Geneva Convention. But a close reading of Article 49 reveals that it prohibits “individual or mass forcible transfers” which are not happening in the territories under Israeli administration. Further, the Occupying Power is obliged not to “deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population” to territories under its control. The use of “deport” and “transfer” indicate that the Convention prohibits the Occupying Power from the active or forcible transfer of its own civilians. Article 49 does not oblige Israel to prevent voluntary settlement by its civilian population just because Arabs don’t like it.

It is also interesting to find in the Fourth Geneva Convention, in Art. 3 and elsewhere, prohibitions of murder, violence to life and person, and other acts that are commonly employed by Palestinian Arabs against innocent Israeli civilians. To date no one in the international community has made a formal protest against these Palestinian Arab tactics.

It is also worthy to note that the judge’s opinions in this case are subjective, they didn’t hear any Israeli point of view nor opinions of the victims of terrorism which is also cited in the Geneva Conventions cited above, and the American judge thought they had no business hearing the case.

Thus, their “opinion” has no teeth and is meaningless and is just another worthless tool in the propaganda war.