Capitano or “The Braggart Soldier” is one of the stock figures of ridicule in commedia dell ‘arte. (I had to memorize them, alas, when John Kerry and I were at Yale.) Actually this figure goes back to Roman times, as does much of commedia, to Plautus and “the swaggering soldier.” So there is nothing particularly new about Kerry in the history of military braggadocio, but it is unique, I imagine, that such a man is running for President of the United States. Do I exaggerate? Well, you decide. Apparently, Mr. Kerry did tell the US Senate he had fought in Cambodia, after all:
Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.
I have that memory which is seared-seared-in me, that says to me, before we send another generation into harm’s way we have a responsibility in the U.S. Senate to go the last step, to make the best effort possible in order to avoid that kind of conflict.
Seared into you, Capitano? Let’s hope you weren’t tooting your own horn a bit…
UPDATE: Well, apparently you were, Capitano mio, at least according to this footnoted excerpt from a letter from the Swift Boat veteran’s attorneys. It was sent to the Station Managers at television stations that had previously received the letter from Kerry forces threatening to sue the stations if they ran their anti-Kerry ad:
C. Christmas In Cambodia
The story is a total preposterous fabrication by Kerry. Exhibit 8 is an affidavit by the Commander of the Swift boats in Vietnam, Admiral Roy Hoffmann, stating that Kerry’s claim to be in Cambodia for Christmas Eve and Christmas of 1968 is a total lie. If necessary, similar affidavits are available from the entire chain of command. In reality, Kerry was at Sa Dec — easily locatable on any map more than fifty miles from Cambodia. Kerry himself inadvertently admits that he was in Sa Dec for Christmas Eve and Christmas and not in Cambodia, as he had stated for so many years on the Senate Floor, in the newspapers, and elsewhere. Exhibit 27, Tour, pp. 213-219. Sa Dec is hardly “close” to the Cambodian border. In reality, far from being ordered secretly to Cambodia, Kerry spent a pleasant night at Sa Dec with “visions of sugar plums” dancing in his head. Exhibit 27, p. 219. At Sa Dec where the Swift boat patrol area ended, there were many miles of other boats (PBR’s) leading to the Cambodian border. There were also gunboats on the border to prevent any crossing. If Kerry tried to get through, he would have been arrested. Obviously, Kerry has hardly been honest about his service in Vietnam.
For the entire letter, see Captain’s Quarters.
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139 Comments
1. G M Roper:Well, since Nixon didn’t get in office until January 69, 24 or so days after Christmas of 68 and since Johnson didn’t send troops to Cambodia, and since Kerry wasn’t in Vietnam at Christmas in 69, I’d have to assume he either had a brain burp or he finally got that promotion from Lt. to “Capitano.”
Aug 7, 2004 - 9:10 pm 2. richard mcenroe:Plautus, eh? Well, let’s hope we’re not looking at a Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the White House:
“Something appealing,
Something appalling,
Something for everyone,
Inaugural tonight!”
BTW, Plautus strip-mined Artistophanes; the braggart soldier shows up in a couple of surviving works ó Peace, and The Frogs, I think, where Dicaeopolis humiliates the Athenian general…
Aug 7, 2004 - 9:21 pm 3. alcibiades:Well at least Kerry’s military braggadacio isn’t taking in the Israelis. In somewhat of a shock, in the best kind of way, Israelis prefer Bush to Kerry 48 to 29.
Gee, you think it’s because they fight terror, too. That’s the thing that amazes me about this whole terror alert press snafu this last week. If you ever spent any time even reading Debka once or any of the Israeli papers, frex, you would know that security alerts are regularly issued there. And does the press corps, thinking they are so clever, confuse themselves into believing all the warnings are politically motivated, so they don’t have to deal with the seriousness of the terror threat? Um, I don’t think so.
Cori Dauber has a post up about this, where she interviews a terror expert, Colonel Randall Larsen, USAF (Ret), who explains reasonably enough that for the most part the “journalists” on the homeland security beat have no clue how intelligence analysis works. Great. So given a choice between hard research and cheap politicking, they choose, of course, the latter.
Aug 7, 2004 - 9:25 pm 4. chuck:To complete this take down, we need the evidence that Kerry was not in Cambodia. The Nixon bit won’t do, as Kerry only refers to the “president.” Anyone know what the evidence that he was not there is?
Aug 7, 2004 - 9:27 pm 5. richard mcenroe:Chuck ó I answered you on the Maguire thread. Check Instapundit if you need more details.
Aug 7, 2004 - 9:57 pm 6. Fresh Air:Chuck–
Hugh Hewitt is all over it.
Aug 7, 2004 - 10:33 pm 7. ossian:Now that Mr McEnroe has introduced “A Funny Thing . . . ,” perhaps it is time to suggest as a theme song for Jean-Francois the aria of the pompous soldier, I am Miles Gloriosus? The Latin should not be beyond a French speaker.
Ossian
Aug 7, 2004 - 10:34 pm 8. richard mcenroe:Ah, dammit! Between Roger and Ossian, now I have this vision of Kerry as Miles Gloriosus, straddling the bow of his Swift boat and singing, “Look at my arms! Look at my thighs!”
It isn’t pretty.
Zero Mostel as the flattering slave Krasnith is pretty funny, though…
Aug 7, 2004 - 10:42 pm 9. Rick Ballard:chuck,
Fairly quickly someone will note that records concerning the location of the boat that Captain Bragadoccio was commanding are not sealed. Who knows, the Swifties may be able to tell us with some ceertainty where the boat was on Christmas of ‘68. Certainly if the boat were being fired upon there is a possibility that an after action report was filed. I’m sure there are going to be additional verifiable facts that will surface.
Aug 7, 2004 - 11:00 pm 10. chuck:Rick,
I’ve checked out the various links pointed at, but the evidence is circumstantial. I want to nail the bastard with undeniable evidence. This fuzzy stuff appeals to my prejudice, and certainly raises my suspicions, but I’m not a political guy. My mom is from Missouri (trailing i as in ta-ta). I’m waiting for someone to show me. So let’s hope for an after action report, or lack thereof.
Aug 7, 2004 - 11:45 pm 11. John Moore ( Useful Fools ):I have seen a version of Kerry’s story where he refers to Nixon for that Christmas.
I have sent a query to the Swifties to see if anyone knows where the boat was.
I’m eagerly awaiting a copy of the book!
Does anyone get the feeling that the Swifty Ad release was politically significant, and negative for Kerry?
The talking heads seem to mostly think it is wrong, wrong, wrong, bad, evil, stupid, etc.
What the heck do they think that citizens, combat vets, are supposed to do when a guy that has betrayed them, who they know to be dishonest at least runs for president. It’s a brave new world, and SBVT is proving it.
I have noticed that the new media has managed to get a lot of this story wrong. They say “these guys didn’t serve with Kerry because they weren’t on the same boat.” That shows they’ve never been in the military. If that were the case, then a pilot of a single person plane would never serve with anyone. Absurd.
They say that none of Kerry’s subordinates are against him. But one of his gunners is part of SBVT and in the ad.
They say it is a Republican controlled operation, but it is against the law for that to happen. I happen to know that at least one of the main figures would probably vote Democrat if they had nominated Edwards.
Anyway, an interesting way to probe the system. This little group, with little money pops up, and all hell breaks loose for days. Heh.
Aug 8, 2004 - 12:31 am 12. William Dyer:Ossian wrote,
Not just French. Per the WaPo in May 2003:
Aug 8, 2004 - 1:05 am 13. Katherine:ìExcelling was the Kerry family ethic, starting with his father, who taught young John to sail while wearing blinders so he’d learn to navigate in the fog.î
????
For years I used to take my vacation cruising the coast of Maine on a sailboat. It is beautiful area, but tricky for navigation because of lots of hidden underwater rocks, high tides and thick fog that may drop on you without momentís notice.
For the life of me I cannot imagine how wearing blinders can help to learn navigating in fog.
This is not mere Captain Braggadocio. I wonder if Kerry is trying to emulate certain 18th century German cavalry officer, Baron Karl Friedrich Hieronymous von Munchhausen.
Aug 8, 2004 - 4:43 am 14. D Anghelone:I don’t know about commedia dell ‘arte but Grand Funk Railroad comes to mind.
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:22 am 15. jedrury:I am still amazed at the apparent capacity of
the American public to be fooled by the Kennedy mystique, by the silly parallels in initials between Kerry/Kennedy, by the hundreds of meaningless unread Kennedy books published annually only to be found on the overstock tables of Books A Million. Kennedy men, Kennedy women, Kennedy children, Kennedy pets, Kennedy affairs, Kennedy fools. Now we are offered up by the media the reincarnation, a doppelganger, in Kerry sailing the Penobscot Bay in blinders as a
youth and then pawning himself off as JFK, the courageous Swift Boat captain in Vietnam. I lived through the 60s and the war and the pervasive Kennedy idoltry which hamstrung the evolution of American political life for decades. It still finds it after effects in Massachusetts and other dream like states of fantasy. I hoped after Clinton, the Age of Bubus Americanus, American political life in the form of the Democratic Party would have matured and morphed into a real party and not a charade. I was wrong.
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:38 am 16. JK Ribera:I read the available chapter and there were numerous witnesses claiming Kerry could not have been in Cambodia. As I recall they are footnoted but the footnotes were not included with the free chapter. We shall have to wait a few days until the book is published.
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:49 am 17. hollywood:Roger et al.,
You’re kidding, right? Comparing Kerry to a Braggart Soldier? After Bring It On? After Let’s Roll? After that hokey Mission Accomplished performance? Pot meet kettle. John Wayne is alive and well and living in the White House.
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:55 am 18. PeterUK:“I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians”.
Well Kerry was certainly a uniter from the start and it is obvious these people knew about the principles of premption,surely the US could have contributed a special forces team in the spirit of international cooperation.After all it was Christmas.
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:00 am 19. richard mcenroe:Sailing in the fog… by wearing blinders? Has this man actually ever left the house in his life? For one thing, wearing blinders isn’t going to teach you anything about keeping a dead-reckonig course, which is how you used to sail in the days before GPS and LORAN… and still a useful skill to know. Neither is it going to teach you local knowledge of shoals and currents.
You learn to sail in fog by sailing in fog. It’s not like there’s a shortage in New England.
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:02 am 20. Jamie Irons:Roger and all,
Thanks for keeping the discussion of the Swift Boat Vets’ issues going. I am really worried this is going to get dropped by thhe MSM, or buried as “just more from the Republican Attack Machine.”
It seemed to me that Roger was at least partly responsible for keeping “UNscam” alive. Maybe he can do it again!
And as an old classics amateur, I love all the allusions from the learned posters on this thread.
XAIPE,
Jamie Irons
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:07 am 21. jdm:> John Wayne is alive and well and living in the White House.
You say that as if it was a Bad Thing.
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:21 am 22. alcibiades:Captain’s Quarters has two new posts up here and here about the lengthy legal response of the SV to the DNC threatening lawyers, sent to various MSM; in which, among other points they refute, they go into detail about the Cambodia claim. Good thing John O’Neill is such a good lawyer. He’s not going to stand for their BS.
BTW, a while ago, Glenn posted this tidbit by John Fund up at Instapundit:
It’s pretty amazing that we got to see this play out a mere week after the convention.
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:26 am 23. chuck:PeterUK,
LOL, great image for me to bear in mind as I head out to dig some holes. And yes, I know when to stop.
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:49 am 24. Charlie (Colorado):I don’t know about commedia dell ‘arte but Grand Funk Railroad comes to mind.
It saddens me obscurely that I got the commedia reference, and connected with the Plautus, but don’t have the foggiest notion what the connection to GFR is.
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:59 am 25. Jamie Irons:If this story were ever to truly get an honest treatment in the MSM (Iknow, I know…but I swear I’m not drinking or on drugs!),
one has to wonder whether, when the tale reaches the “What did Terry McAuliffe know, and when did he know it?” stage, there might ensue a serious effort by the Democrats to, well, get serious about such issues as the war against Islamofascism…
Nahh!
Jamie Irons
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:03 am 26. ricpic:Miles: I, Miles Gloriosus,
I, slaughterer of thousands,
I, oppressor of the meek,
Subduer of the weak,
Degrader of the Greek,
Destroyer of the Turk,
Must hurry back to work.
I, in war the most admired,
In wit the most inspired,
In love the most desired,
In dress the best displayed –
I am a parade.
Soldiers: Look at those eyes, cunning and keen,
Look at the size of those thighs, like a mighty machine.
Miles: My bride!
My bride!
Inform my lucky bride:
The fabled arms of
Miles are open wide.
Make haste!
Make haste!
I have no time to waste:
There are shrines I should be sacking,
Ribs I should be cracking,
Eyes to gouge and bounty to divide,
Bring me my bride!
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:06 am 27. Jamie Irons:Charlie, you wrote,
I share your mystification (and I’m glad you, unlike me, were courageous enough to admit it).
Jamie Irons
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:08 am 28. mrp:Let’s see …
Braggart Soldier (check)
France (check)
Whoppers (check)
Conflicted personality (check)
Eureka!
The perfect lyrics for our modern Lancelot
.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:25 am 29. Barry Dauphin:I’m not sure how much play this will get in MSM. I watched Fox News Sunday this morning. They talked about this issue. They walked up to the line of scrimmage on first down with the ball at the 50 yard line and decided to drop a knee. All panelists defended Kerry and suggested this was a nonstory. Mind you none of them spoke to the specifics of any of the charges. They simply blathered about the atmospherics. They all seemed to say no one would be talking about this by Labor Day. Juan Williams (unsurprisingly) then tried to tranform this story into bad news for Bush because of the evil workings of Karl Rove.
It might be harder for the swift boat vets to get a full and fair hearing in the MSM than it was for Kerry to get into Cambodia on Christmas Day 1968 or for Nixon to be President before Inauguration Day.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:33 am 30. Rick Ballard:It seems that the public court martial of il Capitano Bragodoccio is well started. I sure hope William sticks around to sort through some of the legal points. I know this isn’t his area of expertise but I appreciate his comments concerning the qualitative level of the charges and rebuttals.
I don’t believe that this will fade away and I don’t think that the MSM/DNC propaganda arm is going to be able to effectively suppress it. John O’Neill’s response to the DNC’s attorneys pathetic attempt at suppression provides sufficient ammunition for talk radio to fire back for an entire week.
It will be enormously entertaining to watch Sen. Kerry campaign with his pants on fire.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:41 am 31. Jamie Irons:Rick Ballard:
LOL
Jamie Irons
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:57 am 32. david:I have suggested on other sites that we need to develop a place to note the contributions pouring into the SBVT in their effort to get the message out. I’ve already contritubted, have you? We cannot let the MSM ignore this!
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:04 am 33. Jamie Irons:David,
I tried to contribute a few days ago and shied away because my browser gave me a message that the site’s authentication certificate had long ago expired.
Is this still the case?
Jamie Irons
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:10 am 34. Charlie (Colorado):Jamie, while I’m admitting ignorance, I have to admit that, having little Latin and less Greek — admittedly not always a bad thing for a writer — I haven’t the foggiest what XAIPE means, either.
“thigh-ree”
“thah-ee-ray”
?
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:12 am 35. DennisThePeasant:It seems John Kerry is going to make an original contribution to the nation, though in field of mental health rather than politics:
Munchausen Syndrome By Candidacy
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:12 am 36. Charlie (Colorado):Oh, yeah, David, I did, $50. I was a little worried about it when the Elliott “story” first broke, but I’m glad I did it now.
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:13 am 37. Old Dad:Senator Kerry allegedly was shot at by the Khmer Rouge, and yet he played a key role in ensuring that they would be left to murder a million Cambodians.
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand the man.
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:16 am 38. richard mcenroe:Barry Dauphin — It was not an impressive showing on Foz’s part; I usually expect better from Brit Hume, but as moderator, he is sort of hamstrung. Kristol and the rest of the Weekly Standard crowd are becoming more of a disappointment to me every week, I think they are becoming too enamored of their Washingston insider status. Although to be fair, in the terrorism debate today, he did manage to shut Juan Williams up (always a consummation devoutly to be wished) by challenging him to name one country that should be helping us fight terrorism that wasn’t. Williams did NOT look happy about that.
As far as the Swifties go, it is shaping up as, people who weren’t there believe Kerry and people who were think he’s a liar. When Mara Liasson quoted the Washington Post and THE BOSTON GLOBE as having “investigated” these claims before, I could not believe no one challenged her. They also repeated the claim that Elliott as “muddled” without noting the blatant misrepresentation of his affidavits by the Globe. I think there’s a big streak of “who are these rookies who want to play in our club” going on here…
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:18 am 39. wxjames:You don’t think Kerry was actually sailing in water, do you ? My friends and I used to play that game when we were young. We would sit on the portch glider with blindfolds. We would be Odysseus and company on an endless journey upon which we had encounters with every manner of creature. When we heard other kids in the ‘hood, we would have to cover our ears and push on, knowing that the Sirens would beckon us endlessly.
Inside his mind, Kerry is a man.
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:24 am 40. Jamie Irons:Charlie,
XAIPE comes from (transliteration) “chairo” (chi-alpha-iota-rho-omega) “rejoice.” It was a common greeting and somewhat akin to Latin “salve.” It could mean, I’ve been told, “hello,” “goodbye,” and “be well,” all at once.
I’m a poor scholar though.
Jamie Irons
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:36 am 41. Joanna Smith:I don’t find anything the least bit comedic in Kerry. That cadavarous face of his..ugh!
IMO Hindrocket at Powerline sums it up perfectly:
“It is not enough to say that the Vets’ evidence shows Kerry to be a liar. That is an understatement. In my opinion, they show Kerry to be a sick, deeply delusional man whose tenuous connection to reality would make a Kerry presidency an unacceptable danger to our country.”
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:45 am 42. Charlie (Colorado):Ah, the X was a chi … I was certain it was meant to be a theta. But why is the E an omega?
All a demonstration that the amount of greek you learn in an abstract algebra class doesn’t help read it much.
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:46 am 43. Charlie (Colorado):[T]hey show Kerry to be a sick, deeply delusional man whose tenuous connection to reality would make a Kerry presidency an unacceptable danger to our country.
But we already knew he was a Democrat.
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:48 am 44. Charlie (Colorado):But we already knew he was a Democrat.
Forgive me. The setup was just more than I could resist.
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:49 am 45. Fresh Air:On a previous thread I said I thought the timing of the video was brilliant. If the MSM weren’t so busy shilling for Kerry, it would have been. I now believe the ad was released way too soon, insofar as the actual charges, copiously footnoted and evidenced in the book, will not be coming out for several days now.
The response, now telegraphed by National Pink Radio and the New York Slimes, is going to be: “Oh, we already covered that story. Somebody retracted the whole thing. Not even news. Bunch of cranks. Move along, nothing to see here.”
For this reason, it is imperative to donate to the Swiftees so they can keep this ad running long enough to tie it down to the evidence in the book.
It is also imperative to bombard Bill Kristol, et al and urge them to keep the story alive. I was stunned to see Rich Lowry’s post in The Corner Friday saying he hadn’t been following the Swift Boat Veterans story. I think even the conservatives inside the Beltway are now completely out of touch. Tremendously sad what D.C. does to people.
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:05 am 46. D Anghelone:Charlie (Colorado),
I’m Your Captain.
I think the lyrics fit.
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:09 am 47. chuck:Tremendously sad what D.C. does to people.
I think it is just the habit of thinking that one’s self and friends are the news. Folks are slow to adapt and notice things outside their habitual circles. Heck, it looks to me as if many reporters can’t use google, and the complete miss of the MSM on the Iraqi bloggers is revealing. Dear Raed made it for a while, but it was slow in coming, and I suspect the Guardian picked it up because of a perceived ideological affinity that didn’t work out quite as expected.
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:35 am 48. Terrye:I usually watch Fox News Sunday but it has not aired here yet and from what some of you who have seen say, I think I will skip it.
But I might ask Kristol why he is rolling over on this. I did hear Barnes say [on something else] that this should be looked into.
And the fact that the AWOL story had been “investigated” did not keep the Dems from bringing it up over and over again. So why should that stop the press now? I doubt this will go away, too many people want the book.
It could also be the Republicans don’t want to be seen promoting this even if they believe it. A lot of Dems went to see F9/11, but most of them had the sense to say they could not prove Moore’s allegations. Even the Bush people have said they don’t question Kerry’s service. But this is not about Bush. It is about those men who served with Kerry and feel like he is using them.
I myself hope it goes on for the simple reason that this could not happen to a nicer guy, or nicer political party for that matter.
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:44 am 49. Lapsed Randian 2:Braggert Soldier indeed. As Emerson said, “The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.”
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:57 am 50. marek:And here is the lame attack on SBVT: Sham Charges Against a War Hero
Why would WSJ publish such a rubbish is beyond me.
Aug 8, 2004 - 11:03 am 51. Charlie (Colorado):I’m Your Captain.
I think the lyrics fit.
Ah, of course. I even know the song now that you mention it.
Thanks.
Aug 8, 2004 - 11:06 am 52. marek:Trying to fix the link to WSJ opinion piece by Albert R Hunt:
Sham Charges Against a War Hero
Aug 8, 2004 - 11:10 am 53. Fresh Air:Marek–
Al Hunt is a liberal. He was a Clinton apologist and is now a Kerry apologist. He is a bright man with an enormous, partisan blindspot. IMHO, he does a very poor job of defending Kerry, however, with his “two tours” argument, which I think John Moore debunked earlier.
The Rassman rescue thing is another matter. But according to the Swiftees, it was trumped-up or worse. Here is the quote from their teaser on the book: “…Kerry lied about his “rescue” of a Swift Boat crewman–the act for which he received a Bronze Star–which did not, as he falsely claimed, take place under fire.” Strong stuff indeed.
Can’t wait to see the evidence. As I said before, these guys are punching in the dark until the book comes out.
Slightly OT, Instapundit has the text of the Cambodian Christmas speech up.
Aug 8, 2004 - 11:18 am 54. Terrye:I think we will also see journalists afraid to accept this. For one thing if it is true one has to wonder how it remained buried for all these years and also I think that sometimes more damage can be done if people don’t jump on the band wagon. For instance if the press had actually treated Moore’s movie seriously and investigated the claims they would have been forced to admit that most of it was nonsense. However, if they just kinda let the thing stand and lots of people go see it then folks can form their own conclusions.
I think people may get more of an idea as to what kind of a man Kerry is by looking at how he reacted to the charges he had to know were coming. He reacted by getting a lawyer and threatening stations that air the ad. Did Bush threaten theatres who showed Moore’s masterpiece? Kerry is awful thin skinned for a war hero.
Aug 8, 2004 - 11:30 am 55. Blue State Conservative:“Peace, and The Frogs”
Richard — that sounds like the Michael Moore documentary about the Kerry Presidency.
Aug 8, 2004 - 11:49 am 56. marek:Fresh Air,
Thanks. What befuddles me is the fact that WSJ would print such a miserable piece of opinion.
Aug 8, 2004 - 11:55 am 57. Terrye:Marek:
Maybe the WSJ wants to look like it is open to all sides of the issue. Conservative press like the Jouranl and Fox are always getting hammered for being one sided. Why don’t you respond to the piece and tell them how you feel? Maybe they will run your letter.
Aug 8, 2004 - 12:00 pm 58. Jamie Irons:Charlie (Colorado)
The omega is in the first person singular (the way Greek verbs are usually identified); the “e” (epsilon) in XAIPE appears because the latter is an imperative form (”Be happy,” more or less).
Jamie Irons
Aug 8, 2004 - 12:01 pm 59. Rick Ballard:DtP,
Il Barone Capitano Bragadoccio von Munchausen und Boston takes too long to type. I do think ‘I’m Your Captain’ is a wonderful theme song for the campaign.
I believe Brit Hume has known Kerry since kindergarten. I’m not sure that will have an impact on coverage but the letter to Murdoch from 38 Dem congresscritters would need to be weighed, too. Let drive time radio and Hannity carry the ball for a bit.
FA,
I think the timing is perfect. Remember, 527’s have to go dark concerning running ads by Sept. 2. The fight to get the ad aired will become a story and the DNC attempt to legally stifle the Swifties just isn’t going to play well. I expect to see a bit of WSJ editorializing linking the letter from the congresscritters and the DNC lawyers letter as an attack on the First Amendment. My opinion is that those two letters constitute a bigger attack on the Bill of Rights than the worst that Ashcroft has been accused of.
I also expect Kerry to get some rather awkward questions tossed at him at his campaign stops. I wonder if there are any Reps who can whip up a paper mache Capitano Bragadoccio to follow him around. No reason for the Dems to have all the fun regarding banality. Now, if we can just get il Capitano on stilts with an internal boombox blasting ‘I’m Your Captain’, it would be perfect.
Aug 8, 2004 - 12:19 pm 60. Tom O'Bedlam:I don’t think the timing is too early. That would presuppose that the Swift Boat Vets are going to be a one-day wonder, slinking away into the night after their 15 minutes of (semi)fame as the mainstream media contorts itself in figuring out how to ignore them.
No, Mr. O’Neill strikes me as a heavy hitter, with real gravitas, and the press’s attempts to ignore him and his group will ultimately fail. Thus this is going to be a running story, and a large part of the time the story will occupy will be the time it takes for the press to wake up to the fact that it is not going to go away.
Crucial to this scenario, of course, is the fact that the SBV must have the money to continue running their ad(s) and the fact that station managers must have the cojones to air them in the face of the Dems’ litigation threats. My guess is that both of these conditions will be met. Further, I think the litigation threats have simply raised the profile of the story, and the fact that the vets have not and will not back down simply adds to the story’s legs.
Aug 8, 2004 - 12:24 pm 61. marek:Terrye,
Thanks for the idea – I did send in my comment.
Aug 8, 2004 - 12:58 pm 62. richard mcenroe:How do you leave a comment at WSJ? I went through the readers’ response and contact us links and couldn’t find a way to post.
Aug 8, 2004 - 1:00 pm 63. richard mcenroe:How do you leave a comment at WSJ? I went through the readers’ response and contact us links and couldn’t find a way to post.
Aug 8, 2004 - 1:01 pm 64. marek:richard,
On the page holding the article you want to comment on there is in the upper right corner
“RESPOND TO THIS ARTICLE” menu item.
Click on it and follow the instructions.
Aug 8, 2004 - 1:25 pm 65. marek:richard,
Another nice feature is the “READ RESPONSES” menu item. Discovered them just today.
Aug 8, 2004 - 1:29 pm 66. Fresh Air:My goodness! I just finished reading the Swiftees letter to the MSM. The Bronze Star story is un-freaking-believable! While the other boats closed in to rescue the sailors from a PCF disabled by an underwater mine, Kerry bolted from the scene. He then returned to pick up Rassman after the smoke cleared so he would look like a hero.
This guy is an incredible creep!
Aug 8, 2004 - 1:34 pm 67. PeterUK:Rick,
It might help if the Kerry Puppet is in a Napoleonic pose,bicorn hat and hand in waistcoat.Actually,if you asked him he would probably pose for it.
Aug 8, 2004 - 1:52 pm 68. Kevin P:Roger:
Compare the MSM coverage of the Swift Boat Veterans coverage to their coverage of the Bush AWOL story. The AWOl story had been covered in the 2000 election. The Boston Globe had researched it and came to the conclusion that even though their were some missing records from all they could find it looked like Bush’s honourable discharge was legit.Shift to earlier this year. All it took was Terry McAuliffe to cry AWOL and suddenly every paper in the country put teams of reporters to track down the story. When the Republicans said”But Bush was given an Honourable Discharge by the Army” this was not good enough. Remeber the press conferance when Bush’s press secretary was hammered with questions about Bush being AWOL, The Editorial sections of the major fishwraps were demanding that all of Bush’s records be released. And this was all done without any witnesses coming out and making the claim, all it took was the DNC to make the charge and the national media followed their orders quicker than a squared off Marine.
Go to the Swift Boat story. A whole group of decorated soldiers who lived and worked with Kerry during the war make the accusation that large parts of Kerry’s story is untrue. Do they send reporters out to investigate? Do they ask for Kerry’s records to be released? Do they give independent facts to dispute what the SVBs are claiming? No. The LA Times editorial section on the day the story broke claims that Kerry’s war record is “Not Fair Game” for investigation or critique. Now if they had done some investigative reporting and had found the SVB story to be a pack of lies I could understand them taking that stance. But they just proclaim it like a Pope issueing a writ with out any research or backing evidence. It is one thing to do the legwork of a good reporter and to come out and say” We have looked into the particulars of the story and have found them to be false and these are the reasons why” No they just say, ” We have decided that we don’t like the sound of this so WE decided it was not true. We have spoken!” Whether the story is true or not is one thing.But to say the story is false without doing any of the actual reporting is just a sign of agenda politics. The AWOL story was good because it made Bush look bad. The Kerry story is bad because it makes their boy Kerry look bad. Someone should pin the editors of the major dailies and ask them to explain why they went after the AWOL story like a dog in heat but won’t go near the SBV story.
Aug 8, 2004 - 1:57 pm 69. Terrye:marek:
If nothing else it makes a person to feel better to be able to say , oh yeah..
This whole thing reminds me of the stories my Dad and uncles used to tell me about the fellows they called the 90 day wonders in WW2. My Dad said one guy told him he wanted to see action because he might not be lucky enough to see another war and he needed the glory. My uncle said that his unit had another young jr officer like this, only he did not make it. I think it was a little fuzzy as to exactly what happened to him. I know a local man who fought in Korea that said his young officer hero wannabe was found dead in his tent.
It could be that Kerry garnered some bad feeling among these men because they felt he was more likely to get people killed in an effort to make a name for himself. Soldiers do not like officers like that.
Aug 8, 2004 - 2:06 pm 70. G M Roper:Chuck. The absolute best evidence of the falsity of Kerry’s Christmas in Cambodia schtick is a look at the history of the Vietnam war. Johnson is not ever on the books as having sent anyone into Cambodia as far as I can tell (here is an MSN Encarta entry clearly stating that Nixon invaded Cambodia in early 1970 and disclosed that fact in April 1970. -http://beta.encarta.msn.com/related_761552642_15.36/US_invasion_of_Cambodia.html – requires subscription) Evidence is further available if you will give yourself a little time and a good google search.
If you give creedence to the Idea that Nixon “cheated” and had invaded months earlier that would give us Christmas 1969 Long after Kerry departed Vietnam. Lastly, there is concurrent statements from his commanding officers and fellow sailors that he was in a little river town 55 miles away from the Cambodian border on Christmas eve, 1968. As a final nail, the only president who “denied” having troops in Cambodia is Nixon. Ipso Facto, Kerry Lied, truth died.
Aug 8, 2004 - 2:17 pm 71. richard mcenroe:Marek ó Thanks. Watch your cards.
Aug 8, 2004 - 2:20 pm 72. Ron Hardin:I think Kerry believes he was in Cambodia. I wouldn’t mind if he were lying. This is something worse.
Aug 8, 2004 - 2:26 pm 73. Joanna Smith:>Crucial to this scenario, of course, is the fact that the SBV must have the money to continue running their ad(s)
I was pleased to read yesterday on the SBVFT site that every penny they make from the book will to toward financing their campaign for … so that should be quite a boost!!!!
Aug 8, 2004 - 2:32 pm 74. Joanna Smith:Whoops…what I meant to type:
I was pleased to read yesterday on the SBVFT site that every penny they make from the book will go toward financing their campaign for truth
Aug 8, 2004 - 2:34 pm 75. someone:Plautus is pretty limited, by intention of course. I’m waiting for something a bit more Aristophanic.
Aug 8, 2004 - 2:57 pm 76. JJay:The problem with the swifties disclosures, true as they evidentally are, is they matter only to the people who are going to vote for Bush anyhow. The Democrats won’t believe anything — “It’s the Bush attack machine!” — that casts Kerry in anything other than an adulatory, Kennedesque light. And by Democrats, of course, I include the media. Look to them to bury the story as quickly as possible. The independent voter is who has to be convinced, which takes repeating the story over and over. I contributed to the swift boat campaign and I think everyone should.
Aug 8, 2004 - 3:26 pm 77. Terrye:I just watched Fox News Sudnay and like somebody said ealier they just blew this off. Juan of course went after Bush and dragged Karl Rove into it. So I wrote a little note to them. I did not go into the whole claim because I knew they would not read a long letter. I just asked if Juan had any real evidence to back up his claims and if it is acceptable for Moore to be an honored guest at the DNC and in spite of the fact that Kerry has not repudiated his movie the Dems are somehow not responsible for F911. I also ask why is it ok to threaten stations with lawsuits and not movie theatres.
I was a little more coherent than this post but you get the drift.
It seems like there is an obvious double standard concerning this campaign and I can’t believe the media can ignore it. Whether they believe these claims or not they should be more even handed in their approach to the candidates.
Aug 8, 2004 - 3:52 pm 78. marek:Terrye,
True, happens in all armies when there are these maverick jr. officers making a meteoric appearance. However, in Kerry’s case there is alse a whole gaggle of Kerry’s ex-commanding officers. And they usually don’t hold this kind of a grudge.
In my opinion this case is a testimony of a basic flaw of his character. Kerry’s lie(s) are unnecessary decorations. He was overdoing his testimony in order to gain something personal and political.
I definitely wouldn’t want him as my boss.
Aug 8, 2004 - 4:14 pm 79. richard mcenroe:Terrye ó That’s why I like Brit Hume better as a panel member than a moderator. On the panel, he would have cut Williams off at the knees, as Kristol did to him earlier on the “name a nation” point. Did you see the look on William’s face then? They couldn’t get the camera off him fast enough.
As far as the mainstream media goes, tho, you have to understand, as they do, that if the attacks on Kerry are true, then everything they’ve sold us about the Vietnam war is wrong… and so is the whole worldview they’ve built on the story John Kerry and the antiwar movement sold them, and so is every opinion and position they’ve advocated based on that worldview in the thirty years ó their whole adult lives ó since.
That must be a terrifying thought for them. It is difficult even to imagine an equivalent, perhaps if you could see it as a Southerner who had never heard of slavery, or a German who had never heard of fascism, suddenly being shown pictures of a Klan lynching or Dachau with their smiling father standing right in the middle of it. It is that profound, and that frightening. Their inchoate rage and denial make a lot more sense when you look at it in this context.
Aug 8, 2004 - 4:21 pm 80. Terrye:richard:
Yeah, ol Juan kinda had the deer in the head lights look didn’t he? Little Bill jumped him good.
I also think that Kerry just started blowing off and the whole thing got away from him. I think that in Nam he was looking to get some medals and get the hell out of there so he could get back to civiliization and put those medals to work. I don’t think he is evil or anything. He just did the thing Dems are famous for, he got caught with his pants down in a manner of speaking. I just think Dems need to realize that they have really pissed off the Bush supporters and this crap will not go unnoticed.
Aug 8, 2004 - 4:34 pm 81. richard mcenroe:Someone ó Son, this is Hollywood. If you mention Aristophanes to them, the first thing they do is ask you if he’s available to do rewrites…
Aug 8, 2004 - 4:35 pm 82. Terrye:marek:
I agree. Kerry would be a prick as a boss. I can just imagine him standing there and staring you with that Herman Munster face. Only Herman was nice. And then there is the VP pick Opie the ambulance chaser.
I must be watching too much TV land.
Aug 8, 2004 - 4:41 pm 83. ronnor246@yahoo.com:If Mr. Kerry was forced to abdicate his position as nominee for the good of the party, just think who would be the Presidential candidate. Could the Democrats be so devious? Could Wild Bill and Terry thought up something like this? Can you imagine the fury in the Democrats rank’s [Teresa would probably drop kick John thru the goal posts of life on something like this, so close and yet so far. She could have been the first African American 1st. Lady] The Democrats did something in New Jersey in the last Senatorial election that was very similar, it’s not like they haven’t done it before.
Saint Hillary would skip forth along with Dr. Dean at her side, she looking all starry eyed and innocent just like Willy “the actor” Sutton. The Democrats would be ecstatic. Could they have known all along the John was dreaming of sugar plums 50 miles from the Cambodian border? Could Slick Willie and Terry have thought the whole thing up?
John is probably wishing that he had fragged the bunch of them before he left for the Senate hearings. For want of a nail a war was lost but maybe he’ll make it next time.
Aug 8, 2004 - 5:08 pm 84. mrp:Bill Safire and MD were on the Russert Show this morning, and I think Mr. Safire presented the issue succinctly: The Bush-Cheney campaign should stay a mile away from the Swift Boat controversy, while the Swifties have a perfect right to present their opinions to the public.
That, to me, is the correct formula. If there’s a lesson to be learned for conservatives, it should have been learned during the ‘92 and ‘96 presidential campaigns: Vietnam is a vote-losing theme. Today, the vast majority of Americans who were of voting age during the Vietnam War would rather crawl through a field of broken glass than get bogged down in a mud-tussle over medals and lies.
Draft-dodger Bill Clinton easily beat WWII veteran G.H.W. Bush. Slick swamped WWII hero Bob Dole despite a campaign ladened with Whitewater, Lincoln Bedroom sleepovers, and Buddhist temple fundraising.
The ‘96 campaign’s most poignant moment came when the bewildered Republican candidate asked “Where’s the outrage?” The voters were looking at their wallets, not to the past, as they stepped into the voting booth.
Getting bogged down in controversy over John Kerry’s conduct under fire thirty-five years ago is a losing hand. Even his antiwar activities won’t matter much. Hell, Bill Clinton protested against the US overseas – see how much that mattered? Ask MoH winner Bob Kerrey how well Vietnam figures in presidential politics.
Bill Safire figures that the election will be decided by the debates. I agree. America will be staring both men in the eye after Labor Day. The first man to flinch is in big trouble.
Aug 8, 2004 - 5:24 pm 85. richard mcenroe:Actually, we may be aiming a little high considering Capitano Kerry’s thespian antecedents
Aug 8, 2004 - 5:28 pm 86. richard mcenroe:Terrye ó Actually I thought Williams looked royally pissed right before they cut away from him.
And hiding an intern under your desk is the sort of thing Democrats usually do. Setting fire to a ville and machinegunning all the villagers’ livestock is a bit more than that, at least in this century…
Aug 8, 2004 - 5:32 pm 87. richard mcenroe:mrp ó Free Willie led his parades pre-9/11. I think a lot of Americans have learned there’s more to their world than their credit card bills.
Aug 8, 2004 - 5:43 pm 88. someone:richard mcenroe: Did you check out the link? Made by the South Park guys. Aristophanes would… well, he’d at least be amused.
Aug 8, 2004 - 5:54 pm 89. Terrye:richard:
Mr. Williams always looks pissed, except when he has that unconvincing grin on his face. I thought he looked like a pissed deer in the headlights, meaning surprised that anyone would dare to use that tone of voice…
mrp:
I think the Bushies would do well to stay away from this but I think it might matter more than you think. Clinton did not pretend he was Sgt York and Bob Kerrey could not run because of allegations of atrocities in Viet Nam among other things.
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:04 pm 90. richard mcenroe:Someone ó I did, thanks. Somewhere Gerry Anderson is spinning in his grave…
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:15 pm 91. M. Simon:mrp,
I can tell you where the outrage is. The Vietnam Vets that care about this are emitting in the x-ray. The anti-Bushites are merely dull red.
Suppose Viet Vets and those they can influence break sharply for Bush (60 – 40. That can easily change the outcome in a close election.
If they muzzle the SBV campaign with the campaign finance laws it will become a whispering campaign. The hardest to stamp out. Bloggers will keep it alive.
Once that happens they will start to have to answer charges that no one in the mainstream has made. Punching in the dark.
I don’t think they can handle this.
See they never counted on the power of 100,000 independent voices. 1,000,000 commenters. And 10,000,000 lurkers. All designed to route around damage and keep functioning.
That is why the Republican suit against Farenheit 911 was so critical even if out of place for the Republicans. It set a precident which set the stage for the Swifties.
This is a campaign. This is the first major skirmish. The Battle will be Winter Soldier. Whose chapters will not come out til the end of the week.
When this is over the Ds are going to wonder what hit them. How could they have been so stupid as too not “vet” their candidate.
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:16 pm 92. richard mcenroe:Terrye ó The Swifties’ case is strengthened if the Bush campaign keeps them at arm’s length. Nothing will convince the 70’s reactionaries that they aren’t Karl’s hired guns in any case, but it will bolster their credibility with the open-minded. Both of them.
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:20 pm 93. mrp:Richard -
The problem is that the Dem campaign up to this point (and most likely, up to the time of the first debate) is that it is an ABB issue. If a significant number of voters can rationalize that John Kerry is about as competent as George Bush as a CinC, then the domestic issues come to the forefront. Then there’s the problem of the internet echo chamber.
According to a January 2004 Pew Research poll, about 13% of the public gets most of its campaign news from the internet. That’s a big jump from 2000, but still small compared to the MSM. Perceptions are also skewed by the fact that internet users are among the most politically-knowledgable members of the electorate.
Kerry is in the game only because of the MSM support (during today’s Meet The Press, while discussing the Teresa Heinz-Kerry ’shove it’ controversy, Tim Russert ID’ed the Pittsburg Post-Gazette journalist as an ‘editorial writer for Richard Mellon Scaife, a conservative who had been criticizing her family for some time…’).
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:43 pm 94. Barry Dauphin:Richard Mcenroe:
Yes. The more the swift boat vets are tied to Bush campaign, the more MSM plays the line that it’s all just politics. Bush should just go about his business, and this issue will play out how it plays out. These vets don’t appear to be actually tied to Bush anyway, they seem to be aghast at the possibility of Kerry as Commander in Chief (which is differet from being the junior Senator from Mass.). So Bush should remain presidential and above the fray.
This appears to have been a sore spot for these vets for a very long time, but there was not as much energy to suffer the media glare and painful memories when Kerry was only a fairly insignifcant Senator. The stakes are higher, and maybe these guys are on one last mission.
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:55 pm 95. mrp:‘Meet The Press’ wasn’t a complete waste. MD was kind enough to share with the audience that she, Bill Safire, and Tom Friedman shared the same bathroom. Bill was nonplussed when Maureen mentioned that she sometimes used his bottle of hairspray. Oy!
Aug 8, 2004 - 6:59 pm 96. Terrye:I haven’t watched Meet the Press in ages. Unce upon a time I would not miss it.
There is no way to predict the outcome of things this early. Who knows the price of oil may bring the economy to a screeching halt, Osama might get caught or Al Qaida might attack NYC and any of these things would effect the election more than we can imagine.
Events, it is all about events.
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:11 pm 97. John Moore ( Useful Fools ):Speaking as a Vietnam Vet, this hasn’t long been an issue for me. It became one when I started researching John Kerry’s anti-war activity. I am now, as someone so well put, radiating near the x-ray spectrum.
This was the second attempt by the swifties. Their first was a press conference (May 5) buried by the press.
For some reason, this ad hit the right button for the MSM, with the result that the story has been going for days. Furthermore, doing it during the August news drought made a lot of sense.
John O’Neil is indeed a heavyweight. And they have already sent a response to the DNC lawyer letters, a response with vastly more detail supporting the specifics of the ad.
Vietnam Veterans were boiling already due to Kerry’s anti-war behavior (referred to here by some as Winter Soldier). The organization I am working with, and another organization that I founded were both based completely on Kerry’’s “Winter Soldier.” We didn’t know the Swifties had so much negative information about his Vietnam time. It’s pretty clear that the Swifties have good reason to be angry – they had a dangerous skipper in their group (see excerpt of third chapter).
I’ve noticed that everyone in the press tried to discredit the account after the Democrat spin came out saying that SBVT had nobody who had been in Kerry’s boat (not true, they have a gunner). So some said that these people hadn’t served with Kerry because they weren’t on his boat. I think the facts have gotten through to a bunch of these folks – that you serve with members of your unit, not just your crew. Furthermore, had they done the slightest bit of research, they would have discovered that most of the accusers were officers, and since a swift boat only had one officer, they obviously were on other boats. But the young officers of a unit of course serve together – especially a small unit like this one.
This leads to an interesting though: without the insane McCaine-Feingold attack on the first amendment (ignored by the press), would this information have come out at all? The republicans would have been pilloried for going negative (never mind the Bush is AWOL, Bush Lied, etc).
But since SBVT cannot coordinate with the Bush Campaign, they just do their own thing.
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:15 pm 98. richard mcenroe:mrp, barry dauphin ó There’s a solid ABB constituency, but I think this may be about the last month you can run an ABB campaign. Comes the RNC and the Bush ad blitz, and his accomplishments will be out in the open for all that the MSM can do to muddy them.
Besides, we may be only 13% of the electorate, but we’re cherce, It’s just up to us to get the word out…
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:15 pm 99. John Moore ( Useful Fools ):Terrye
I agree. This year is unusually prone to unexpected events. Terrorism, economic strangeness, political strangeness, etc.
We just do what we can, and hope it helps.
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:17 pm 100. mrp:Richard -
Besides, we may be only 13% of the electorate, but we’re cherce, It’s just up to us to get the word out…
And that 13% is coming out the MSM’s hide. The number of people relying on the internet for their news consumption will only increase over the coming years.
Aug 8, 2004 - 7:36 pm 101. mrp:John -
This leads to an interesting though: without the insane McCaine-Feingold attack on the first amendment (ignored by the press), would this information have come out at all? The republicans would have been pilloried for going negative (never mind the Bush is AWOL, Bush Lied, etc).
McCain-Feingold was most assuredly NOT ignored by the press. Virtually every pillar of conventional pressdom was beating the bass drum for passage of M-F. David Broder of the Washington Post was a big cheerleader; the man literally quivered when he spoke in support of the bill. You’d have thought that the greatest danger facing the Republic was one more dollar raised by a K Street lobbyist.
Now Mr. Broder is wringing his hands, decrying the creation of the 527s, blaming Democrats and Republicans for violating the public’s trust (Ha!… but he does, stunningly place more blame on the Dems).
The GOP is still pilloried any case. Back to Russert (again?) – the Swiftie’s ad “… I should say was funded in part by some Texas Republicans…”
How big a part did ’some Texas Republicans’ contribute? Which “Texas” Republicans? Tim didn’t say. This all-out bias in favor of the Democrats should be one of the biggest stories of the campaign. But it won’t be, because it can’t be.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:01 pm 102. Barry Dauphin:Here’s a thought experiment. If Kerry’s diplomatic skills are as wonderous as the Dems proclaim, let him resolve his differences with the swift boat vets via diplomacy instead of attacking fellow vets. After all they’re his fellow officers. Don’t they speak the same “language”
? Wouldn’t that prove to us all how he can handle the WoT 
. After he attempts that, he can time travel in Porfoessor Peabody’s Wayback machine and make the EU spend money on their militaries over the 1990s, so they’ll actually be able to, like you know, ….be useful.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:03 pm 103. hollywood:jdm,
> John Wayne is alive and well and living in the White House.
“You say that as if it was a Bad Thing.”
Being a resident of Hollywood, I’d prefer someone with a sense of irony. Someone like Nicholson or Larry David. [n a weak moment, Gina Gershon]
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:06 pm 104. richard mcenroe:Just to add one thing from the standpoint of a veteran who never won anything but the usual “I was there” fruit salad for his class-A’s but who had plenty of very good men under my command who had won an impressive collection of Soldier’s Medals, Bronze Star (Valor) and Silver Stars. The one thing I noticed about all of them, all of them, is they thought they hadn’t really done anything worth a medal but that the other medal winners in the unit were really something.
But since John Kerry thinks enough of his own accomplishments for all of them, let’s celebrate him, too…
Hollywood ó Irony is the humor of the failed; that’s why it’s so popular in Hollywood.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:17 pm 105. hollywood:“Someone ó Son, this is Hollywood. If you mention Aristophanes to them, the first thing they do is ask you if he’s available to do rewrites…”
richard,
Actually, in the face of the Vietnam War, William Arrowsmith did some great translations/rewrites.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:21 pm 106. richard mcenroe:Another stand for Free Speech by the Democrats.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:22 pm 107. hollywood:Richard,
It’s not irony that’s failed, it’s Hollywood.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:24 pm 108. richard mcenroe:try that again — Free Speech
Apparently even the internet can’t print that without hiccuping…
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:25 pm 109. richard mcenroe:Evidently in some folks’ case…
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:27 pm 110. Charlie (Colorado):Hey, Richard, that link she no work neither.
I just looked at the source, and it’s <a >Free Speech</a>. Does that sound familiar? Or — since this is one of several recently that have had this problem — is something going awry with the edit code on Roger’s site?
In any case, there’s no href text, so I can’t follow the link even from the source.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:28 pm 111. hollywood:The link works, but it’s the biased nature of the link that’s troubling. Maybe your computer is rejecting it as spam.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:32 pm 112. Rick Ballard:Charlie (C),
The 8:25 link opens for me. Unfortunately, it’s an anonymously sourced piece. I ain’t bitin’ till there’s a name with the info or some personal info on the men in the ad starts showing up in the MSM/DNC agitprop organs.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:37 pm 113. Pat Curley:Hate to toot my own horn (no I don’t) but we had this all the way back in May.
Aug 8, 2004 - 8:58 pm 114. richard mcenroe:Charlie (Colorado) ó Here’s a cut’n'paste on the link
http://www.crushkerry.com/article227.html
Rick Ballard ó Fair enough, as far as it goes. Does anyone know about that site’s reliability generally? I found it through Instapundit.com.
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:06 pm 115. Rick Ballard:Pat Curley,
I’d like to thank you and John Moore for all the effort you’ve put into this. The issue has always been important and I believe that the MSM will finally be forced to pick the substantive aspects up. The longer they wait the worse it’s going to be for Kerry.
Richard M.,
It’s not a matter of site reliability for me. I can easily believe that FedEx will be delivering brown books to every boot licking Dem journo in the US by 10AM tomorrow morning. If any of them start running nasty divorce or bankrupcy stories then I’m perfectly cheerful about going into some of the uglier personal aspects of dear Sen. Kerry’s personal life. The info is out there and all areas of his life will be fair game as soon as the character assassins start working on the Swiftvets. The Dems were excellent at smearing women with little public experience. We’ll see how they do with combat veterans.
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:20 pm 116. Pat Curley:Thanks, Rick, looks like John Moore’s story about Kerry still being in the Navy in 1971 & 1972 (when he met with the North Vietnamese) is heating up as well!
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:31 pm 117. John Moore ( Useful Fools ):Thanks, Rick.
I first reported on this before we had the information. There was a very suspicious two year gap.
Then, when the records were available, we reported on the truth, and on the rather clumsy cover-up on Kerry’s web site. I also sent a note to Michael Kranish of the Globe, who had published that Kerry was honorably discharged in 1970. No acknowledgement, no effect. But hey, he’s a real journalist, not a mere citizen, so why bother him with facts.
Can you imagine if people started telling the press that Bush had covered up something?
I am waiting to see how Winter Soldier will be handled. Kerry’s actions there were pretty bad.
Aug 8, 2004 - 9:51 pm 118. Fresh Air:John Moore–
You wrote:
I’ve noticed that everyone in the press tried to discredit the account after the Democrat spin came out saying that SBVT had nobody who had been in Kerry’s boat (not true, they have a gunner).
I don’t believe the gunner’s mate from the ad, Van Odell, ever served on the same boat as Kerry. Here is an excerpt from the Swiftees’ letter posted at Capt. Ed’s:
Van Odell (Exhibit 6) is a retired Navy enlisted man who also served in Coastal Division 11 on the Chenoweth boat, a few yards from John Kerry during Kerry’s March 13, 1969 Bronze Star action.
However, I do remember reading something about a guy “who served above and behind” Kerry (implying gunner). And it seems possible he could have been later rotated onto Kerry’s boat. But I suspect not.
The one enlisted guy, Steve Gardiner (?) who hasn’t supported Kerry has yet to be heard from. I wonder if he will surface in U for C.
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:05 pm 119. Charlie (Colorado):Thanks folks, the 8:22 link was the one that wasn’t working. I hadn’t refreshed between 8:22 and 8:28.
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:12 pm 120. Terrye:Hollywood:
I have to say I rather liked John Wayne.
I had a client a few years ago that had worked in a yacht club which catered to Hollywood actors. The sweet lady is gone now but she told me that John Wayne was her favorite actor. She said the first time she saw him he was seated at a table and as the club hostess she approached him and ask if he would like something. She was very tiny and demure. She said he looked at her for a moment, smiled reached over and grabbed his napkin and dropped it on the floor at her feet. “Step on that little lady so I can see you” he said and laughed. On the evenings he came he would take her money box out to her car for her and watch as she got in and drove away. He made her feel special.
My guess is Mr. Kerry would just look at her and ask her if she knew who he was with all the pompous arrogance befitting a man of his class.
They say if he wins he will be the wealthiest man ever to be President.
STrange isn’t it that a party that so prides itself on its egalitarian nature is becoming the party of the rich and pampered? No wonder Wall Street is nervous. The idea of a playboy tax hiker and an ambulance chaser in the White House is no doubt giving them the heeby jeebies. I know it scares me.
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:14 pm 121. holdfast:“Being a resident of Hollywood, I’d prefer someone with a sense of irony. Someone like Nicholson or Larry David. [n a weak moment, Gina Gershon]”
While I assume that this too is supposed to be irony, it’s so far from funny that it merely demonstrates how Ms Woody has no concept of what is required to win this war. I’d prefer Clint Eastwood, but I’ll take John Wayne in a pinch. Hell, I’ll even take Bruce Willis or Steven Segal.
“John Wayne’s not dead, he’s just frozen. As soon as we find a cure for cancer we’re gonna tharw out the Duke, and he’s gonna be pretty pissed off. You ever taken a cold shower? Well multiply that by a million, that’s how pissed off the Duke’s gonna be. We’re gonna get the Duke, and Lee Marvin…”
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:32 pm 122. Katherine:“The idea of a playboy tax hiker and an ambulance chaser in the White House is no doubt giving them the heeby jeebies. I know it scares me. ”
Amen to that, Terrye.
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:40 pm 123. Pat Curley:Fresh Air, Gardner surfaced months ago and shock of shocks, he’s what I called “The Pete Best of Kerry’s Band of Brothers”; the guy whose story doesn’t fit the “war hero” image Kerry has been cultivating.
ìKerry was chickenshit,î he insists. ìWhenever a firefight started he always pulled up stakes and got the hell out of Dodge.î
That’s from Time Magazine.
Aug 8, 2004 - 10:57 pm 124. Fresh Air:Pat–
Do you know if Gardner is quoted/referenced in the book?
Aug 8, 2004 - 11:02 pm 125. Paul:Steve Gardiner, the gunner in Kerry’s boat was on Mike Savage’s radio show last week. I only caught a bit of it but he is in complete agreement with the SBVTs about Kerry’s perfidy. I hope he gets to be heard because he debunks the “they were not on the same boat so they didn’t serve with Kerry” fallacy.
Aug 8, 2004 - 11:03 pm 126. Pat Curley:Sheesh, read the article I linked–it’s by Brinkley himself (in an obvious conflict of interest that Time should be ashamed of). It comments on the exact places that Brinkley mentions Gardner in Tour of Duty.
Aug 8, 2004 - 11:58 pm 127. Fresh Air:Pat–
I read that Time article a while back. The question is whether Gardner has signed an affadavit and given his side of the story to O’Neill for Unfit for Command, not Tour of Duty.
On other matters–
Having re-read the Boston Globe hagiography from last June, I am thoroughly persuaded Kerry made up the whole Christmas in Cambodia thing.
Aug 9, 2004 - 12:26 am 128. Terrye:The Democrats are under the mistaken impression that if they win in Novemeber it is all over for these guys. They think it will be a return to narmal. The people of Europe and Arabia will love us again. There will be no hunger or poverty or injustice, kinda like the Return of the King if you know what I mean.
Truth is what goes around comes around and if the Dems do win they will be treated with the same respect and consideration and fairness they have shown Bush and company. These veterans are not goling to just go away. They are not like Clinton’s unfortunate female victims.
I did hear that Alec Baldwin will emigrate if his man Kerry loses. How ever will we make it? That is the question America must ask herself– can we survive if Alec moves to France???
Aug 9, 2004 - 4:56 am 129. richard mcenroe:Terrye ó Is Baldwin recycling his threat from 2000? I remember writing a parody on that based on 1776’s “Sit Down, John” overture… “Go Alec!” Have to see if I can find it…
Aug 9, 2004 - 6:50 am 130. richard mcenroe:Fresh Air ó A clarification. Gardiner is supposedly the only enlisted man from Kerry’s crew who has come out against him. The vast majority of the SBVT’s are enlisted men from that unit.
By the way, Kerry’s “band of brothers” is cherry-picked from all the crew who served with him. None of them served a full tour with Kerry, or even, if I read correctly, Kerry’s full tour. Of course, Kerry’s actual time in combat was so short that this would probably be impossible for an enlisted man who was there for the whole hitch.
Aug 9, 2004 - 6:54 am 131. hollywood:Terrye,
Nice Wayne story.
You say you fear Kerry. Consider the alternative. Reasonable conservative minds fear Bush more. http://www.andrewsullivan.com/print.php?artnum=20040725
Aug 9, 2004 - 7:57 am 132. Roberts:Sure, Hollywood, “reasonable conservative minds” who are obsessed with gay marriage.
ROFL.
Aug 9, 2004 - 8:01 am 133. Bostonian:The idea of “playboy tax hiker and an ambulance chaser in the White House” doesn’t give me the heebie-jeebies. It just makes me feel sick.
I get the heebie-jeebies from the idea of the country being run by a guy who thinks that France’s opinion is important, despite profuse evidence of France’s conflict of interest in Iraq and Syria.
Chirac has pledged an “indestructible friendship” with Syria (in Chirac’s official speech when receiving Bashar Al Assad in Paris):
http://www.elysee.fr/cgi-bin/auracom/aurweb/search/file?aur_file=discours/2001/T010625.html
Aug 9, 2004 - 8:07 am 134. hollywood:Roberts,
Sounds like you’re projecting your own fears.
Aug 9, 2004 - 8:12 am 135. richard mcenroe:Just a question for consideration: With all of this “charging to the sound of the guns” and “driving his boat into intense enemy fire,” how many of Kerry’s crew men were wounded or killed? One? Some? Any?
Aug 9, 2004 - 8:23 am 136. RiverRat:Medalgate!
If any of you are wondering why 5 of Kerryís ìBand of Brotherî are supporting him I offer the following:
Several days after the February 28, 1969 action, Vice Admiral Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr. flew to An Thoi, South Vietnam, where he pinned the Silver Star on Kerry’s chest. All records indicate the award ceremony took place on March 6th.
“In addition to Kerry’s Silver Star, PCF-94’s performance on February 28 also earned Bronze Stars for Tommy Belodeau and Mike Medeiros and Navy Commendation Medals with Combat V Devices for Del Sandusky, Fred Short, and Gene Thorson.” – Douglas Brinkley, Tour of Duty, page 294.
The entire crew got personal medals for valor! No wonder Kerry got a Silver Star! He probably put himself in for the Navy Cross and Zummie had to downgrade it. Kerry was given two days leave (vacation for civilians) in Saigon after 28 Feb 1969. No, Kerry was not hospitalized as has been rumored.
What’s funny is that Kerry was on the flight from Saigon with Zummie for the award ceremony. What was he doing in Saigon 2 days after the action? Pandering for medals? Methinks yes.
Kerry to the crew, “Hey, guys I’ll put you “all” in for medals if you’ll agree that this is what I did.” This was the most decorated Swift boat in the war for a single action and it was nothing more than a minor firefight.
If this is not the most outrageous piece of creative writing I will ever see….I’ll eat in my Black Beret!
It’s no wonder why they all support him now. They were kids bought with medals then and canít admit it now.
This is all supported by Brinkleyís reporting in ìTour of Dutyî. Only differenceÖ.objective analysis.
RiverRat
Aug 9, 2004 - 8:37 am 137. Roberts:Interesting contrast: Carlos Hathcock was a Marine in Vietnam who received the Silver Star for his actions when the APC he was riding was destroyed by an enemy mine and caught fire. Despite second and third degree burns over half his body, Hathcock returned repeatedly to the APC to pull seven fellow Marines from its burning interior.
Aug 9, 2004 - 1:30 pm 138. Ron:Read what it takes for someone not connected to receive a Silver Star. SGT. Carlos Hathcock USMC was a Wimbleton Winner [best rifle shot in the world] who was sent to Viet Nam. He personally killed 93 of the enemy as a sniper, these were confirmed kills. In a 5 day engagement he and his spotter wiped out an entire company of Viet Cong with rifle fire and artillery, these were not counted in the confirmed amount. I don’t remember that he even got a citation for the action against the VC Company of men; a company is usually about 200 soldiers. There is a book about his time in Viet Nam and can probably be had at Amazon books.
Aug 23, 2004 - 10:36 am 139. Vik Rubenfeld:Oddly enough, Kerry’s yacht is named “Scaramouche” — and Scaramouche is “A stock character in commedia dellÔøΩarte and pantomime, depicted as a boastful coward or buffoon” !
Sep 16, 2004 - 8:42 pm