29 Comments

1. jedrury:

Part of the offense to effectively assure “Never Again” is for a ready and willing press either in Jerusalem, in New York, on the internet or in the blogoshere to damn and denounce this outrageous activity before it reaches any official level or acceptance.

Aug 9, 2004 - 12:01 pm 2. Will Collier:

Oh, I can think of a few other words for it, Roger, but none of them are fit for a family website.

Aug 9, 2004 - 12:06 pm 3. Knucklehead:

Jedrury,

I think its too late. The Euros are just waiting for another demogague to lead them in another orgy of murder. They are beyond hope.

Aug 9, 2004 - 12:37 pm 4. Rick Ballard:

Knucklehead,

If they are beyond hope then we are right behind them. The moral relativism that is the precursor of this type of act is alive and well right here in the good old USA. What do you think would happen to a person wearing the Israeli flag as a shawl at Berkeley? What strange and frightening times.

Aug 9, 2004 - 1:09 pm 5. Knucklehead:

Rick,

We have our own problems here, but Berserkeley is not Auschwitz. The moral relativism idiots here are more than bad enough, but attacking Israelis at Auschwitz has got to be 2 or 3 steps beyond anything we have here. At least I hope so. Elitist acceptance of anti-semitism with anti-zionism as costume is bad enough here.

Aug 9, 2004 - 1:17 pm 6. Eric Akawie:

“Never again is what you swore the time before…”

Aug 9, 2004 - 1:42 pm 7. charlie eklund:

This is absolutely the worst, most disheartening story I’ve read of late…and there has been a lot of competition for that “honor”.

What is happening in Europe? I think, perhaps, that what we’re seeing is a return to normalcy. In the postwar era, the shock of massive physical destruction combined with the horror of so many dead quieted the worse demons of Europe’s nature.

Now, maybe, that shock has worn off and Europe is once again susceptible to the same impulses that brought about the burning of witches, the guillotine, the Red Terror and the horror of the Holocaust. I hope not.

I have been hopeful that this new anti-semitism was just a passing thing but that hope diminishes with every new report of a Jew assaulted on the streets here or of the desecration of yet another Jewish grave there. Now, with this terrible event at Auschwitz we see the desecration of the most notable of all Jewish graves. Will this be the act which awakens the people of Europe to the path they are on?

I wish I could be hopeful…but I no longer am.

Aug 9, 2004 - 1:50 pm 8. John Moore ( Useful Fools ):

This millenium is off to a bad start.

Aug 9, 2004 - 2:25 pm 9. Kevin P:

Roger:

These activities will continue to happen until the intellectual leadership on the left steps up and admits that in their efforts to appear “balanced” on the question of the middle east they have allowed the vile anti-semetic and anti- Israel poison that this act represents to be spread without condemnation.

Now of course they will say that they don’t support this act and they will make noises about how these activities must stop. But at the same time they embrace leaders like Arafat and the governments in Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia that openley spout this filth. They praise the UN even though that institution has become a illegitimate institution that will say that Zionism equals racism, and will vote to condemn any act that the Israeli government makes to defend itselfwhile ignoring the human nail bombs that many middle east governments openly promote. They ignore the activities of the palestinian terrorists yet they now seek to economically strangle the state of Israel with their plans to disinvest. If anyone would go to the MEMRI website once a week they would see the daily nazi like hate that is spread all over the Middle East yet they are suprised that there is a rise in Temple desecrations and attacks on any Jew that doesn’t hide his identity.

I rarely disagree with Knucklehead but Beserkley is becoming the kind of political petri dish were these open hatefull idea’s are fermenting. The fact that the mere sight of a symbol of Israel inspired these french gentleman to attack the group at Auschwitz is a sign that Europe has forgotten everything that happenned in the 30’s and the 40’s. If some jew had the guts to wear a article of clothing with a israeli flag on it in Berkley he would be shouted at, spit on. These acts would also be applauded by some of the faculty there. We may not be as far gone as Europe but it won’t take time to get there. The left in America shoulders much of the blame because they refuse to root out and remove the arabists who openely or silently approve of these bully tactics. It won’t take long before the verbal attacks that happen on many of the campuses in America are replaced with physical ones.

Aug 9, 2004 - 2:52 pm 10. Knucklehead:

Kevin P:

I’m pretty sure we agree on most everything. I am not in any way trying to excuse the loons at Berkeley and such places. Their “intellectual” brand of bigotry is, after all, bigotry. But it is still of the “sticks and stones” variety.

I rarely disagree with Knucklehead but Beserkley is becoming the kind of political petri dish were these open hatefull idea’s are fermenting.

I don’t think we have any disagreement about that statement. Berkeley has gone crazy (it has long been unaffectionately called Berserkeley for good reason). I find the idea that French tourists wandering the Ausschwitz museum, and particularly, the reproduction of the ovens, would attack Israeli students to be beyond even the lunacy at Berkeley.

We talked about this sort of thing a few threads ago. Berkeley itself seems just now going beyond the point of “stylized and intellectual bigotry” into real acts of bigotry. If their bigotries are not gotten control of they will begin being carried into the mainstream. That is what this event at Auschwitz shows us. That anti-semitism among the French is now so accepted and commonplace that even standing in the Auschwitz museum can no longer control it. That is a virulence that far suprasses what is happening on college campuses here in the US. But we may not be far behind.

Aug 9, 2004 - 3:06 pm 11. lindenen:

Is anyone else wondering whether or not these French tourists were ethnically French or ethnically Arab?

Aug 9, 2004 - 3:15 pm 12. holdfast:

‘”Violence was narrowly averted,” adds Laurence’

That is really too damn bad. I wish I had been there, because I guarantee that violence would not have been averted. Seems to me that the only thing that will improve these punks is a good boot-f*cking. I think that’s part of the problem in Eurabia – they can get away with this sh*t – it’s totally consequence free.

Aug 9, 2004 - 3:17 pm 13. Knucklehead:

Lindeman,

I’m wondering the French perps were there to see a museum the purpose of which is “never again” or, in their sick minds, a shrine to something they wish would happend again. Europe is sick and no part of Europe is sicker than France.

Aug 9, 2004 - 3:23 pm 14. Katherine:

I think I am going to be sick.

Aug 9, 2004 - 4:37 pm 15. Terrye:

I agree with holdfast here. If I had been there I can assure it would have escalated to violence.

Just what the hell did all those Americans die for all those years ago? Maybe this is the real reason our bases are in Europe, they need to be watched at all times or they will revert to type and it should be remembered that Europe is one of the most blood soaked continents on the planet. For the first time since Rome ruled, they have managed to go a half century without their usual genocidal mania and they think they have ascended to some superior spiritial state or something.

They blame Israel for everything but it seems to me that through out history the two most troublesome areas in all the world have always been the ME and Europe. Europeans created communism and fascism that spread through the world like a cancer leaving tens of millions of dead in their wake. There is a reason why the Nazis and the Arabs were allies in WW2, they had hatred for the Jews in common and that bond is far stronger to these kind of people than love or kindness or compassion can ever be.

Shame on them.

Aug 9, 2004 - 4:59 pm 16. Greg D:

I am disappointed in the “50 jews” who were there, and didn’t beat the _3_ thugs within an inch of their lives.

It will only really be “neer again” when everyone understands it is their duty to defeat such thugs themselves, not sit around and wait for “the government” to do it.

Aug 9, 2004 - 5:55 pm 17. HA:

Terrye,

Just what the hell did all those Americans die for all those years ago?

That’s the ultimate question, isn’t it? I’m beginning to feel that like WWII – just like WWI – didn’t settle anything. And, maybe it was fought in vain. Here we are not even 60 years after it ended and Europe is reverting to its 1930’s form. Ike must be rolling in his grave:

“General Dwight D. Eisenhower anticipated that future generations might find it hard to believe the horror that they found when Nazi Germany was liberated by the Allies. He ordered that both the Ohrdruf camp and the Buchenwald camp be preserved for several weeks in the state in which they were found and German civilians in nearby towns were forced to visit the camps to view the piles of rotting bodies. ”

WARNING – Link has gruesome concentration camp photos:

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/Introduction.html

Aug 9, 2004 - 6:42 pm 18. marek:

I think that the ‘never again’ will regain the proper meaning when there will be immediate grave consequences for the attackers. The fact that the thugs were not carried away on stretchers will encourage similar or worse attacks.

The fact that France and the rest of the world enact more rules and laws again anti-semitism means nothing as long as there is neither will nor power to enforce them.

And shame on the Jews in the group that let these thugs to get away unscathed.

Aug 9, 2004 - 6:55 pm 19. Terrye:

HA:

I read long ago that Eisenhower actually made Germans bury a lot of the bodies. He wanted to know just what had been done in their names.

People say that we need to change presidents so that our old allies will “respect” us. To hell with that what they need to worry about is the fact that so many of us no longer respect our old allies.

I don’t really give a rat’s ass if they like me or not.

Aug 9, 2004 - 7:10 pm 20. Assistant Village Idiot:

I read recently (can’t find the source) that when an American says “never again,” he means that we will not allow such things to occur again. When a European says the same words he means “never again will we allow ourselves leaders like that again.” They’ve come down in the world. In the 1960’s they used the phrase with the same meaning we did. See how easy it is to keep the husks of morality when the grain is gone?

Aug 9, 2004 - 7:33 pm 21. jedrury:

There was a point in the earlier discussion where Knucklehead or Rick Ballard targeted the moral relativism in the US and how it might foster a torrent of anti-Semitism. American institutions are highly effective in combating any overt and public utterances, that is, B’nai Brith, Anti Defamation League and yes the main stream media.

There may be the edgy fringe in Berkeley but surely they are shouted down and denounced,

are they not ? Doesn’t the Department of Justice and its Office of Civil Rights actively pursue the cross burnings and swastika fringe there ? Look how Farrakan and Jesse Jackson were roundly denounced when they made anti-Semitic remarks.

Am I naive back here on the East Coast. My point is that Americans of whatever political stripe will not, can not, shall not tolerate any outbreak of this outrage. Elsewhere, the response is different. I would like confident in this troubled age that America and its institutions are responsive to assuring that Never Again is a fact of life here.

Aug 9, 2004 - 7:52 pm 22. HA:

jedrury,

My point is that Americans of whatever political stripe will not, can not, shall not tolerate any outbreak of this outrage.

You don’t think so? How do you explain Al Sharpton’s participation in the Democratic debates and convention? Have you heard of Freddy’s Fashion Mart?

http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/nr_comment090701.shtml

Aug 9, 2004 - 7:56 pm 23. HA:

Terrye,

I don’t really give a rat’s ass if they like me or not.

Or to quote GWB “I don’t give a shit what the Europeans think.” You can even get this on a coffee mug:

http://www.cafeshops.com/angrypatriot.3214602

Aug 9, 2004 - 8:00 pm 24. Terrye:

Ha:

Thanks I might get some of those for Christmas stockings. Send them to the old Country.

Aug 9, 2004 - 8:36 pm 25. Syl:

“This was another reminder that in Western Europe there is sympathy for dead Jews; it’s just the live ones that they cannot tolerate.”

And not tolerating lives ones leads to dead ones. Europe is doing it again.

Aug 10, 2004 - 2:13 am 26. David Thomson:

ˇ˝ . . . w e r e v e r b a l l y a t t a c k e d b y a t h r e e Рm e m b e r g a n g o f F r e n c h m a l e t o u r i s t s .ˇ˝

T h e r e i s a v e r y g o o d p o s s i b i l i t y t h a t a t l e a s t o n e o f t h i s t h r e e – m e m b e r g a n g i s a J e w ! T h e J e w i s h c o m m u n i t y h a s y e t t o r e a l i z e t h a t m a n y o f i t s o w n m e m b e r s a r e e i t h e r s e l f h a t i n g o r s o t h o r o u g h l y g u i l t t r i p p e d t h a t t h e y a r e n o w f o r a l l p r a c t i c a l c o n s i d e r a t i o n a n t i – S e m i t i c . M o r e o v e r , t h e s i t u a t i o n w i l l g e t f a r w o r s e i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s i f J o h n K e r r y b e c o m e s p r e s i d e n t . O u r f a r l e f t i s c u r r e n t l y b e h a v i n g i t s e l f t o h e l p h i m t o g e t e l e c t e d . B u t t h e m o m e n t K e r r y t a k e s t h e o a t h o f o f f i c e – - – t h e y w i l l g o c r a z y . T h e a n t i – I s r a e l c o a l i t i o n w i t h i n t h e D e m o c r a t i c P a r t y w i l l b e c o m e f a r m o r e s t r i d e n t .

Aug 10, 2004 - 5:39 am 27. David Thomson:

Wow, let’s try this again:

“….were verbally attacked by a three-member gang of French male tourists.”

There is a very good possibility that at least one of this gang is a Jew! The Jewish community has yet to realize that many of its members are either self hating or throughly guilt tripped that they are now, for all practical purposes, anti-Semitic. Moreover, the situation will get far worse if John Kerry becomes president. Our far left is currently behaving itself to help him get elected.

But the moment Kerry takes the oath of office—they will go crazy. The anti-israel coalition within the Democratic Party will become far more strident.

Aug 10, 2004 - 5:50 am 28. Neighborhood Bully:

50 versus 3? I think there should have been a good old fashioned butt-kicking. If one of the miscreants was indeed Jewish, the butt-kicking would only be more deserved.

There really is right and wrong in this world and the wrong has to be confronted vigorously.

Aug 10, 2004 - 7:29 am 29. sweetness:

And what did we exactly DO about this incident, this situation? So if we mean “Never Again” I think we need to think about causing actions like this to have equivalent consequences.

Notice not all that many are interested in this OUTRAGE that happened. They would care if we meant business about “Never Again”. I think its way past time we mean business.

We didnt DO anything much the last time when this ’started up’. I wonder if we are going to make that same mistake once again. I suggest, we do NOT make that same mistake again. We dont have ANYMORE people to lose.

Just for a start. Id find out WHO it was that did this..and Id plaster their names all over the internet and whatever???happens….Ive about had ENOUGH of this..how about you?

Aug 15, 2004 - 6:10 pm

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