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	<title>Comments on: Spin Doctors of Times Square</title>
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		<title>By: foreign devil</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8052</link>
		<dc:creator>foreign devil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2004 23:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8052</guid>
		<description>Really....what a lot of verbiage to wade through (5 pages) to get to the only paragrapph at the end which dealt at all with the issues raised in the Swift Boat ad and to acknowledge (barely) that there might be something to it.  I have come to the conclusion that now that I have a computer (I was a late bloomer folks--long story) I won&#039;t ever buy another newspaper again.  Why waste money for something I know is going to tell me lies.  God Bless the Blogosphere!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really&#8230;.what a lot of verbiage to wade through (5 pages) to get to the only paragrapph at the end which dealt at all with the issues raised in the Swift Boat ad and to acknowledge (barely) that there might be something to it.  I have come to the conclusion that now that I have a computer (I was a late bloomer folks&#8211;long story) I won&#8217;t ever buy another newspaper again.  Why waste money for something I know is going to tell me lies.  God Bless the Blogosphere!</p>
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		<title>By: doublecola</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8051</link>
		<dc:creator>doublecola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2004 22:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8051</guid>
		<description>Roberts,



I&#039;m sorry. I should know better than to post facts.



DC
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roberts,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry. I should know better than to post facts.</p>
<p>DC</p>
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		<title>By: Roberts</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8050</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8050</guid>
		<description>Amusing how we are now seeing the Kerry shills repeat the same already discredited &quot;responses&quot; ... must be missing a fax from Kerry HQ.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amusing how we are now seeing the Kerry shills repeat the same already discredited &#8220;responses&#8221; &#8230; must be missing a fax from Kerry HQ.</p>
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		<title>By: penwil</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8049</link>
		<dc:creator>penwil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8049</guid>
		<description>doublecola:



You might want to take a look at the new swiftboat vet ad.  It&#039;s got Kerry&#039;s war crimes testimony in his very own voice (no way to wriggle, waffle, or deny there), followed up by POWs saying that they were TORTURED because they wouldn&#039;t say what Kerry gave away for free.    So what&#039;s your man going to do now--attack a POW who was tortured in a North Vietnamese prison as a Republican shill?



And think of the timing--the ad comes out on the very day that Kerry and the NYT just blasted the whole sorry mess out into the public consciousness.  Now people will be looking for the ad, and what are they going to see?  Tortured POWs blaming Kerry for their pain.



Disappear?  In your dreams . . .
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>doublecola:</p>
<p>You might want to take a look at the new swiftboat vet ad.  It&#8217;s got Kerry&#8217;s war crimes testimony in his very own voice (no way to wriggle, waffle, or deny there), followed up by POWs saying that they were TORTURED because they wouldn&#8217;t say what Kerry gave away for free.    So what&#8217;s your man going to do now&#8211;attack a POW who was tortured in a North Vietnamese prison as a Republican shill?</p>
<p>And think of the timing&#8211;the ad comes out on the very day that Kerry and the NYT just blasted the whole sorry mess out into the public consciousness.  Now people will be looking for the ad, and what are they going to see?  Tortured POWs blaming Kerry for their pain.</p>
<p>Disappear?  In your dreams . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8048</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8048</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;doublecola&lt;/b&gt;



&lt;i&gt;I think going after Kerry&#039;s medals, etc. could backfire. And if it does, the Cambodia issue may just disappear as well.&lt;/i&gt;



Just keep dreaming, you need to escape from that liberal matrix you are living in... it&#039;s just not real.



--



&lt;b&gt;bdog57&lt;/b&gt;



&lt;i&gt;Either you or someone else here has commented about how the MSM&#039;s &quot;Softball&quot; approach to Kerry has made him ill-prepared. Michelle&#039;s final paragraph discusses this well.&lt;/i&gt;



I have preached this from the beginning about Democrats in general.  They have the short term benefit of bearing less burden, but this leads to a political weak state by comparison as the Republican&#039;s are made to constantly jump over hurdles and score on goalposts that are moved regularly and all without warning.  Of course this is done while carrying weights and being subjected to one sided referrees.  No wonder they are politicaly stronger, they have had to be, it is all coming home to roost on the Dems.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>doublecola</b></p>
<p><i>I think going after Kerry&#8217;s medals, etc. could backfire. And if it does, the Cambodia issue may just disappear as well.</i></p>
<p>Just keep dreaming, you need to escape from that liberal matrix you are living in&#8230; it&#8217;s just not real.</p>
<p>&#8211;</p>
<p><b>bdog57</b></p>
<p><i>Either you or someone else here has commented about how the MSM&#8217;s &#8220;Softball&#8221; approach to Kerry has made him ill-prepared. Michelle&#8217;s final paragraph discusses this well.</i></p>
<p>I have preached this from the beginning about Democrats in general.  They have the short term benefit of bearing less burden, but this leads to a political weak state by comparison as the Republican&#8217;s are made to constantly jump over hurdles and score on goalposts that are moved regularly and all without warning.  Of course this is done while carrying weights and being subjected to one sided referrees.  No wonder they are politicaly stronger, they have had to be, it is all coming home to roost on the Dems.</p>
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		<title>By: doublecola</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8047</link>
		<dc:creator>doublecola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8047</guid>
		<description>

I donít know, you add these up and you have to ask some honest questions about what the truth in this matter really is.



Is John OíNeill a truthful man?:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408180004



http://mediamatters.org/items/200408130010



http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2004/08/06/kerry_smear/

-

Hoffmanís Allegations

http://mediamatters.org/items/200406020006



Elliottís conflicting statements:

Elliott had previously defended Kerry on that score when his record was questioned during his 1996 Senate campaign. At that time Elliott came to Boston and said Kerry acted properly and deserved the Silver Star. And as recently as June, 2003, Elliott called Kerry&#039;s Silver Star &quot;well deserved&quot; and his action &quot;courageous&quot; for beaching his boat in the face of an ambush:

Elliott (Boston Globe, June 2003): I ended up writing it up for a Silver Star, which is well deserved, and I have no regrets or second thoughts at all about that. . . . (It) was pretty courageous to turn into an ambush even though you usually find no more than two or three people there.

-

On Thurlow:

Thurlow&#039;s citation - which the Post said it obtained under the Freedom of Information Act - says that &quot;all units began receiving enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks&quot; after the first explosion. The citation describes Thurlow as leaping aboard the damaged PCF-3 and rendering aid &quot;while still under enemy fire,&quot; and adds: &quot;His actions and courage in the face of enemy fire . . .  were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.&quot;

A separate document that recommended Thurlow for that decoration states that all Thurlow&#039;s actions &quot;took place under constant enemy small arms fire.&quot; It was signed by Elliott.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html

-

And, along with todayís NYTimes article, this link provides a good overall summary:

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I donít know, you add these up and you have to ask some honest questions about what the truth in this matter really is.</p>
<p>Is John OíNeill a truthful man?:</p>
<p><a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200408180004" rel="nofollow">http://mediamatters.org/items/200408180004</a></p>
<p><a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200408130010" rel="nofollow">http://mediamatters.org/items/200408130010</a></p>
<p><a href="http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2004/08/06/kerry_smear/" rel="nofollow">http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2004/08/06/kerry_smear/</a></p>
<p>-</p>
<p>Hoffmanís Allegations</p>
<p><a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200406020006" rel="nofollow">http://mediamatters.org/items/200406020006</a></p>
<p>Elliottís conflicting statements:</p>
<p>Elliott had previously defended Kerry on that score when his record was questioned during his 1996 Senate campaign. At that time Elliott came to Boston and said Kerry acted properly and deserved the Silver Star. And as recently as June, 2003, Elliott called Kerry&#8217;s Silver Star &#8220;well deserved&#8221; and his action &#8220;courageous&#8221; for beaching his boat in the face of an ambush:</p>
<p>Elliott (Boston Globe, June 2003): I ended up writing it up for a Silver Star, which is well deserved, and I have no regrets or second thoughts at all about that. . . . (It) was pretty courageous to turn into an ambush even though you usually find no more than two or three people there.</p>
<p>-</p>
<p>On Thurlow:</p>
<p>Thurlow&#8217;s citation &#8211; which the Post said it obtained under the Freedom of Information Act &#8211; says that &#8220;all units began receiving enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks&#8221; after the first explosion. The citation describes Thurlow as leaping aboard the damaged PCF-3 and rendering aid &#8220;while still under enemy fire,&#8221; and adds: &#8220;His actions and courage in the face of enemy fire . . .  were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.&#8221;</p>
<p>A separate document that recommended Thurlow for that decoration states that all Thurlow&#8217;s actions &#8220;took place under constant enemy small arms fire.&#8221; It was signed by Elliott.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html</a></p>
<p>-</p>
<p>And, along with todayís NYTimes article, this link provides a good overall summary:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231" rel="nofollow">http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231</a></p>
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		<title>By: doublecola</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8046</link>
		<dc:creator>doublecola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2004 17:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8046</guid>
		<description>

there&#039;s an excellent--to me, anyway--analyis of the swiftboatvet ad here:

http://www.slate.com/id/2105353/



I think going after Kerry&#039;s medals, etc. could backfire. And if it does, the Cambodia issue may just disappear as well.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there&#8217;s an excellent&#8211;to me, anyway&#8211;analyis of the swiftboatvet ad here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2105353/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/id/2105353/</a></p>
<p>I think going after Kerry&#8217;s medals, etc. could backfire. And if it does, the Cambodia issue may just disappear as well.</p>
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		<title>By: RogerA</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8045</link>
		<dc:creator>RogerA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8045</guid>
		<description>bdog57:  I think Matthews and other members of the MSM are beinging to understand their grip on the media is slipping from their hands--and they are in the process of lashing out.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bdog57:  I think Matthews and other members of the MSM are beinging to understand their grip on the media is slipping from their hands&#8211;and they are in the process of lashing out.</p>
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		<title>By: bdog57</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8044</link>
		<dc:creator>bdog57</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8044</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;All&lt;/b&gt;,



Imagine you are DtP. Now: re-read &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rogerlsimon.com/mt-archives/2004/08/spin_doctors_of.php#c8050&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mork&#039;s post&lt;/a&gt; using heaps of sarcasm and directing those words to some DNC know-nothing. In this context, the post actually makes sense and is rather humorous as well.



&lt;b&gt;Swopa&lt;/b&gt;,



The book thing makes sense if you claim that the SBVT are making money off of this (hint: they&#039;re not...they&#039;re donating the money to some charity/organization).



&lt;b&gt;holdfast&lt;/b&gt;,



I actually saw part of that segment last night. Absolutely unbelievable. I almost started throwing things at my TV. Michelle comments about the experience &lt;a href=&quot;http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000418.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. She tells it how it was. Matthews was being wilfully obtuse and ill-mannered. BTW, she looks much better in person than her picture would suggest (interesting that Matthews would deride her on her youthful appearance...whatever).



&lt;b&gt;Samuel&lt;/b&gt;,



Either you or someone else here has commented about how the MSM&#039;s &quot;Softball&quot; approach to Kerry has made him ill-prepared. Michelle&#039;s final paragraph discusses this well.



Conversely, their &quot;Hardball&quot; approach has toughened Bush up. Chris Suellentrop&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://slate.msn.com/id/2104842&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; in Slate on Bush&#039;s stumping abilities (awesome), and the Larry King &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0408/12/lkl.00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;interview&lt;/a&gt; with GWB and Laura really attest to a tightened-up message. I&#039;d be really surprised if they can catch him flat-footed on anything from now until November. Not for lack of trying either.



&lt;b&gt;Quote of the Day&lt;/b&gt;



from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.polipundit.com/2004_08_15_polipundit_archive.html#109298847027786720&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Polipundit&lt;/a&gt;


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>All</b>,</p>
<p>Imagine you are DtP. Now: re-read <a href="http://www.rogerlsimon.com/mt-archives/2004/08/spin_doctors_of.php#c8050" rel="nofollow">Mork&#8217;s post</a> using heaps of sarcasm and directing those words to some DNC know-nothing. In this context, the post actually makes sense and is rather humorous as well.</p>
<p><b>Swopa</b>,</p>
<p>The book thing makes sense if you claim that the SBVT are making money off of this (hint: they&#8217;re not&#8230;they&#8217;re donating the money to some charity/organization).</p>
<p><b>holdfast</b>,</p>
<p>I actually saw part of that segment last night. Absolutely unbelievable. I almost started throwing things at my TV. Michelle comments about the experience <a href="http://michellemalkin.com/archives/000418.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a>. She tells it how it was. Matthews was being wilfully obtuse and ill-mannered. BTW, she looks much better in person than her picture would suggest (interesting that Matthews would deride her on her youthful appearance&#8230;whatever).</p>
<p><b>Samuel</b>,</p>
<p>Either you or someone else here has commented about how the MSM&#8217;s &#8220;Softball&#8221; approach to Kerry has made him ill-prepared. Michelle&#8217;s final paragraph discusses this well.</p>
<p>Conversely, their &#8220;Hardball&#8221; approach has toughened Bush up. Chris Suellentrop&#8217;s <a href="http://slate.msn.com/id/2104842" rel="nofollow">article</a> in Slate on Bush&#8217;s stumping abilities (awesome), and the Larry King <a href="http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0408/12/lkl.00.html" rel="nofollow">interview</a> with GWB and Laura really attest to a tightened-up message. I&#8217;d be really surprised if they can catch him flat-footed on anything from now until November. Not for lack of trying either.</p>
<p><b>Quote of the Day</b></p>
<p>from <a href="http://www.polipundit.com/2004_08_15_polipundit_archive.html#109298847027786720" rel="nofollow">Polipundit</a></p>
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		<title>By: Fresh Air</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8043</link>
		<dc:creator>Fresh Air</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/08/19/spin-doctors-of-times-square/#comment-8043</guid>
		<description>All--



Statement from &lt;b&gt;Van Odell&lt;/b&gt;, who was aboard one of the boats involved in the Bronze Star incident, regarding the smear of Larry Thurlow:



&lt;i&gt;The Kerry Campaign is attacking the truthfulness of this man and the Bronze Star he so richly deserves for his actions on March 13, 1969.  I was there.  I saw what happened.&lt;/i&gt;



&lt;i&gt;The mine&#039;s detonation lifted PCF-3 completely out of the water just yards ahead of me. All boats commenced suppression fire in case enemy small arms fire ensued. None did.&lt;/i&gt;



&lt;i&gt;All boats came to the aid of PCF-3, except one: John Kerry&#039;s boat. Kerry fled.&lt;/i&gt;



&lt;i&gt;Larry Thurlow piloted his boat straight toward the mine-damaged PCF-3 from which thick, black smoke billowed. He jumped aboard and personally led damage control operations that saved the boat and rescue operations that saved the lives of badly wounded men.  Larry&#039;s leadership was in the highest traditions of the naval service. His leadership allowed the other men and boats of the mission to exit the river safely.  This single act of meritorious service -- the chief requirement of the Bronze Star -- should be honored, not ridiculed, by the Kerry campaign and its allies in the mainstream media.&lt;/i&gt;



There is also a statement issued today by John O&#039;Neill in response to the Kerry campaign&#039;s complaints yesterday. Both are at swiftvets.com.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All&#8211;</p>
<p>Statement from <b>Van Odell</b>, who was aboard one of the boats involved in the Bronze Star incident, regarding the smear of Larry Thurlow:</p>
<p><i>The Kerry Campaign is attacking the truthfulness of this man and the Bronze Star he so richly deserves for his actions on March 13, 1969.  I was there.  I saw what happened.</i></p>
<p><i>The mine&#8217;s detonation lifted PCF-3 completely out of the water just yards ahead of me. All boats commenced suppression fire in case enemy small arms fire ensued. None did.</i></p>
<p><i>All boats came to the aid of PCF-3, except one: John Kerry&#8217;s boat. Kerry fled.</i></p>
<p><i>Larry Thurlow piloted his boat straight toward the mine-damaged PCF-3 from which thick, black smoke billowed. He jumped aboard and personally led damage control operations that saved the boat and rescue operations that saved the lives of badly wounded men.  Larry&#8217;s leadership was in the highest traditions of the naval service. His leadership allowed the other men and boats of the mission to exit the river safely.  This single act of meritorious service &#8212; the chief requirement of the Bronze Star &#8212; should be honored, not ridiculed, by the Kerry campaign and its allies in the mainstream media.</i></p>
<p>There is also a statement issued today by John O&#8217;Neill in response to the Kerry campaign&#8217;s complaints yesterday. Both are at swiftvets.com.</p>
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