American political conventions have begun to resemble high-tech versions of medieval passion plays. As in those passion plays we know the conclusion before they start and all we have to do is judge the individual performances. Without suspense, this can get a bit dull and, again like many dramas of that nature, they can stand a little cutting. We need four days of this? By the time we come to the President or the nominee, we’re ready to go home.
But the film preamble is suddenly effecting. Fred Thompson has a great voice.
The speech itself, particularly the last part, was good. At the beginning I was more impressed by Bush’s relaxation than the content, but the demonstrators, whoever they prove to be, got loose and he seemed rattled. Who wouldn’t be? Given American history, we all know what can happen. Let’s all rejoice that it didn’t.
Of course, the baseball schtick is meant to make Kerry look bad, pitcher to pritcher, and it sure does. Also Bush’s people push the USA banners, not Bush banners. Smart. I’mm going to listen now. Bye.
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117 Comments
1. Jamie Irons:I prefer to vote for the guy that can throw the damn baseball, dammit!
Jamie Irons
Sep 2, 2004 - 7:55 pm 2. richard mcenroe:So, Kerry’s head on that pike outside Madison Square Garden ó live or Memorex?
Sep 2, 2004 - 8:06 pm 3. ambisinistral:Jamie,
Kerry can throw the ball. The problem is all his pitches turn into hanging curveballs.
Sep 2, 2004 - 8:26 pm 4. J_Crater:Is it unpatriotic if you can’t throw from the mound ?
I guess it’s a matter of your definition of “patriotism”
Sep 2, 2004 - 8:32 pm 5. Rick Ballard:I think Kerry throws very well, most Frenchmen don’t do nearly as well.
Sep 2, 2004 - 8:39 pm 6. Terrye:J Crater:
No, it is not unpatriotic but it does kinda let us know if you are [in the words of Arnold} a girly man.
It seems to me that certain people have a habit of assuming that other people are questioning their patriotism when in fact they are simply saying the guy is an asshole..
For instance Kerry is giving a midnight rally tonight. Something civilized people don’t do. But just because the Republicans let the Dems have their convention is no reason to think the Dems would be courteous enough to return the favor.
Sep 2, 2004 - 8:44 pm 7. Syl:Mort Kondrake who has a preview of what Kerry will say tonite said that what Kerry will say is quite petty.
Especially compared to Bush’s speech.
Petty is the right word for the entire Kerry campaign come to think of it.
Sep 2, 2004 - 8:49 pm 8. Terrye:Syl:
What did you think of Bush’s speech? I thought it was good. This was the first time I ever watched a whole convention.
I thought Bush was going to cry.
And the protestors were a pain. Maybe some Bushies oughta show up at Kerry’s rally and scream flip flop.
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:03 pm 9. Rick Ballard:I thought it was a “kitchen sink” speech without sufficient delineation. Too long by about 20% which interfered greatly with effective delivery. Very few memorable lines. I thought Bush’s delivery was more than adequate for such a long speech. No damage was done but it was not a speech that will change minds. Overall the convention will result in a total bounce of 6-7 points by Saturday from the Aug. 27 numbers.
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:12 pm 10. Syl:Terrye
I thought the speech was excellent. I don’t think I was as moved as I’ve been by other speeches of his but I think that’s because I knew everything in it. But to those who haven’t been following as closely I think it was re-assuring and inspirational.
As he says, will history look back on us as having the courage to see this through. I certainly pray and hope so. The alternative is too horrible to contemplate.
Not only are we at war with Islamist ideology, we’re also at war with the ‘Left’ who refuse to confront reality. Can America survive them both?
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:14 pm 11. Solomon:I found it inspiring, frankly.
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:23 pm 12. Jamie Irons:Rick
I thought the last ten minutes of the speech were rhetorically masterful.
Bush’s emotion in talking about the burden of sending soldiers off to die moved me profoundly.
I hated this guy in September, 2000. That he can move me like this now I find surprising and somehow reassuring. As imperfect as he is, he now seems to me more than adequate to the task at hand.
Jamie Irons
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:23 pm 13. DennisThePeasant:Just got done watching as much of Kerry’s midnight rally in Springfield as I could stomach. And as an Ohioan, I have to ask: why in the hell Springfield? Was that the only place they could rent a hall in the whole damn state? Sure it beats a cow pasture in Obetz, but not by very much.
It’s worse than Kondracke said it was.
The bottom line is that Kerry’s fixation with his Viet Nam service is starting to come across as really strange. It is one thing to be proud of it, it is another to be completely obsessed by it. His answer to a whole week’s worth of criticism on his lack of a serious defense and foreign policy is to huff and puff about his patriotism and then go on about Dick Cheney’s five deferments to his two tours.
John, everybody’s talking about Zell Miller…not Dick Cheney.
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:25 pm 14. Terrye:Syl:
I honestly don’t know. I just heard Kerry say that Iraq is a mess and the world is not with us blah blah blah. So I got up and went in the front room and turned off the TV.
Enough.
The left is obsessed with comfort and popularity. Like the cheerleaders in highschool.
Bush is trying to fight an enemy that wants to kill us all.
The Dems think that such a comment is evidence that I have fallen for the propaganda of a fascist oil man.
I used to wonder how the Nazis could end up dragging Europe into that war. I wondered how decent people could stand back and allow Hitler to very nearly wipe the Jews off the face of the earth. I listen to Kerry and I understand. People don’t want to hear the truth, they prefer the bullshit. Problem is the kind of people that took those kids hostage in Russia are all over the world, they are fanatics and they want to kill us.
The Dems just can’t see beyond their own self interest.
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:26 pm 15. Rick Ballard:Jamie,
I guess I just had my hopes too hign or wasn’t attentive enough. More of a technical analysis than anything else. I’d rate it as his fourth or fifth best and was hoping for a first or second.
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:27 pm 16. ambisinistral:I just listened to as much of Kerry’s rambling speech as the broadcast. Apparently, since he never mentioned it, 9/11 never happened in Johnny’s world — but he was in Vietnam in case you haven’t heard.
I’m also beginning to think his domestic plan is as double top secret as his foreign policy plans, since as specific as got got was saying he was going to do it even better.
And Haliburten is Eeeevil.
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:31 pm 17. thedragonflies:The speech was about the war, the convention was about the war, the election is about the war, the world is about the war. This war, today’s war.
It is not about Viet Nam.
The best thing about this election is it is finally going to put the post-Viet Nam era to bed. The post-Viet Nam syndrome is dying, and the funeral will be the re-election of President Bush.
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:33 pm 18. Terrye:ambi:
This whole thing with Haliburton is getting silly. They either need to take the contracts away from them or leave them alone and let them do the work, but to harp on it month after month is geting stupid.
Sep 2, 2004 - 9:39 pm 19. DennisThePeasant:thedragonflies-
We can always hope, can’t we?
Sep 2, 2004 - 10:03 pm 20. MeTooThen:Jamie,
You could not have hated Bush more than my mother in 2000.
After the election, she continually referred to him as the “phony President.”
After 9/11 and the speech he gave to Congress, shortly thereafter, she first began to at least respect him, but still disliked him.
In my extended and fully Democratic family, I have been the only Bush supporter. In fact, I am the only member of my family to have ever voted for any Republican for any office (I voted for Reagan, and then, 41 the first time only.)
Each night of the two conventions, our family would talk about what we thought was good/bad, etc.
When my sister called after Bush’s speech, I was shocked, shocked, really, to hear that she and my mother were intending to vote for Bush.
And I quote, “He seems like he understands what he is doing, he understands what it is to be the President.”
‘Nuff said.
Sep 2, 2004 - 10:14 pm 21. penwil:I thought it was a pretty darn good speech, especially toward the end when he talked about his vision to end Islamic terror by bringing freedom to that part of the world (and in truth if there is any hope at all of avoiding a very ugly, very long world war, then that is our only chance), and his line about “here buildings fell, here a nation rose” brought tears to my eyes. (I also got all chocked up during that video, which produced some rolled eyeballs from my husband that I would fall for it, but, hey, it was effective and that’s what you want.)
Also, while not as inspiring as the WOT stuff, I can understand the need for him to list his accomplishments and his plans for the next four years. It’s what people expect of the incumbent. And if he ends up actually putting through tort reform, simplifying the tax code, and fixing social security, he’ll be miracle worker. Funnily enough though since he said he’d do it, I do believe he will actually try. Whereas in the past I’ve always just written off all campaign promises as just so much vote pandering.
And most importanly, I think, he had a nice, relaxed slow delivery and the speech itself was comprised of short, simple declarative sentences that ventured in just the right places into the poetic.
I think he sold it.
Sep 2, 2004 - 10:16 pm 22. richard mcenroe:Jay Leno is making Kerry Purple Heart jokes.
Rob Fukuzaki, a freaking sportscaster on the Monday Night Football postgame show, is making Kerry Purple Heart jokes.
It doesn’t matter what defense Kerry offers of his service anymore.
He’s done.
Sep 2, 2004 - 10:21 pm 23. Fresh Air:The Corner just reported on Kerry’s “midnight” rally. Kerry apparently claimed Cheney said he was “unfit” this week. He followed this comment up with a jab about “five deferments.”
Now, I’m pretty sure Cheney does happen to think he’s unfit, but I’m equally sure, because I happened to read them, that his remarks were very respectful towards Kerry’s service.
Kerry needs to dig out his copy of Hamlet. Methinks he doth protest too much.
Sep 2, 2004 - 10:47 pm 24. insatty:Terrye’s 9:26 post is the best encapsulation of this race that I have read. Well done!
The Halliburton demagoguery is so stupid and it’s even stupider that the MSM never condemns it. Halliburton’s in-country subsidiary is KBR, and its employees are dying and risking lives every day by transporting building materials all over Iraq. KBR is losing money there. The left is lying about a patriotic corporation and its patriotic employees to spin a yarn about corrupt Republicans that mislead us into war to profit their corporate fatcat friends, yada, yada, yada. The left should be discredited by this bilge, but it’s exalted by the leftist press. The whole scenario is sadly surreal. Just as the Gore-really-won-Florida fiction, the Halliburton fiction is dogma for the religious left.
Sep 2, 2004 - 10:47 pm 25. Steve_in_Corona:Dennis,
Since you are in Ohio, tell me how interested the folks there are in the Red Sox pennant race.
Especially with two historic teams of their own – the Indians and Reds – who both were in the wildcard hunt until recent weeks.
And for the love of Pete, Kerry even screwed up the standings. The Sox are STILL 3 1/2 games out since the Yankees won tonight. Its been that for a couple days now.
Lambert field..now this. Sports references should be banned along with Vietnam references.
Sep 2, 2004 - 11:11 pm 26. Vexorg:ambisinistral:
Kind of hard to throw a curve when you can’t even keep from putting it into the dirt in front of the plate.
Sep 3, 2004 - 12:11 am 27. devildog:If anyone is still wondering exactly how morally and intellectually bankrupt the left has become, look no farther than Max Cleland’s latest statement quoted here from a story by Charles Hurt of the Washington Times dealing with Kerry’s American Legion speech, this paragraph:
Former Georgia Sen. Max Cleland, who joined Mr. Kerry in demanding Mr. Rove’s resignation on behalf of the campaign, said the veterans attacking Mr. Kerry’s war record have contributed to a spike in suicides, which, he says, has occurred among veterans.
Ah, okay you sick b*stard.
Sep 3, 2004 - 12:36 am 28. John Moore ( Useful Fools ):That is really low. And it ties to the mythology of the “psychologically damaged veteran” which is one of the things we hold against Kerry – especially those vets who had trouble getting jobs because of it.
And, of course, Rove has nothing to do with the Swifties, and he has no way of shutting them down.
And there is more to come. Vietnam Vets for the Truth is holding a rally Sept 12. Other vets are popping out of the woodwork.
If Kerry had been anyone else, Vietnam would not have re-appeared. But when the presidential candidate is a war record fabulizer, got out of combat early by fraud, and worked with the communists to smear America afterwards, Vietnam comes back full force – At least for Vietnam Vets. We want the SOB to be defeated. As one veteran said, a Kerry loss would be the coming home march none of us had.
It absolutely amazes me that this is the best the Democrats can do. Kerry is a zero. He is a negative, if you include his treasonous post-war activities (we now know he met with the communist Vietnamese 3 times, and apparently took part in a shakedown racket where POW families were promised some communication with their POW if they agreed to denounce the war.) Is there anyone who doesn’t consider that a subhuman activity – one which could only be carried out with the cooperation of the North Vietnamese?
He’s never done a damn thing in his life. He sat in the Senate for 20 years, voting against everything military
Sep 3, 2004 - 12:58 am 29. devildog:All excellent points John. Kerry will be thrashed for reopening the wounds of Vietnam. I don’t remember where I read this today, but if you extrapolate Kerry’s record of ‘earning’ medals over a normal tour he would have earned 21 purple hearts, 10 Silver Stars and 10 Bronze Stars.
Ah…okay, sure…
Sep 3, 2004 - 1:38 am 30. devildog:My God, I’m watching Kerry speak from an obscure part of Ohio and my, oh my, has he sunk to a new low. Even Edwards’ face shows an understanding of how desperate the overly ambitious can become. Kerry is so far beyond his depth it’s sad to watch…
Sep 3, 2004 - 2:20 am 31. Lola:I loved his speech. I feel that it personified him, and I liked how he poked fun at himself. Damn that protester for breaking concentration. They sure have lousy timing. To think that in 2000 I detested Bush . . . yep, if someone told me that I’d be voting for him I would have thought they were crazy. Yes, it was 911 that changed it all for me.
Sep 3, 2004 - 2:49 am 32. David Thomson:ìJay Leno is making Kerry Purple Heart jokes.
Rob Fukuzaki, a freaking sportscaster on the Monday Night Football postgame show, is making Kerry Purple Heart jokes.î
Yup, this is a sure sign that the John Kerry campaign is in very deep trouble. They are not laughing with the candidate—but at him! Heís now the butt of their jokes. Nonetheless, I prefer not to take anything for granted. Kerry still has his friends in the major media. There should be no relaxing until this election is officially decided.
Sep 3, 2004 - 2:49 am 33. Syl:Oh my. Get a gander of this by Susan Estrich. I don’t like her anymore. No way. I can understand her anger, but she’s too partisan to even weigh the possibility the Swiftvets have a legitimate gripe and are doing this on their own. She swallows the tales of the MSM as having discredited them. And look at her threats. The bitch.
Sep 3, 2004 - 3:33 am 34. Syl:
Messed up the link…Mad As Hell
Sep 3, 2004 - 3:34 am 35. Syl:Once more with feeling…sigh
Mad As Hell
Sep 3, 2004 - 3:36 am 36. Warthog:What the heck is going on? Is half the population living a different reality in the same dimension? Are there any adults at all on the Kerry Team?
Cheney was Secretary of Defense during the biggest land battle since WWII. He was VP for two of the most stunning military victories in modern history. The guy pitches 3 shut outs in the World Series and Kerry makes an issue out of his lousy ERA in the Little League?
The spectacular incompetence and pettiness of the Democratic Party is alarming. This is a two party democracy and to see one of them devolve into a band of ranting juveniles is not a good thing. What if Kerry won? What are the implications of having a bunch of people run the country who use Michael Moore movies as a life template?
Sep 3, 2004 - 4:11 am 37. Catherine:Richard M
Jay Leno is making Kerry Purple Heart jokes.
Thanks for including this. I’d been wanting to know whether late night was joking about Kerry yet, because I assume that’s a bad sign.
After the 3-week portion of the Iraq war France sent its ambassador on a bridge-mending tour (I think my husband saw him twice, at two different events, in a short period of time). He met with editorial boards at all the major newspapers, and the WSJ wrote about it afterward.
They told him, paraphrasing, ‘France doesn’t have a problem with the press. France has a problem with Letterman.’
Rick Ballard
I’m with you on the speech.
Though I had a “balls-out” reaction to the Clintonian first half, which is probably good for Bush. I was thinking, Wow. These guys are just going to go for it. War everywhere on earth and cheap health insurance for small businesses and a community health center in every county and social security reform for the young ‘uns AND AN OWNERSHIP SOCIETY AND THAT’S NOT ALL, FOLKS—-!!!
(I was also thinking, Things are gonna be hopping at The Corner tomorrow. Your true blue NRO conservative is going to be thrilled to hear a Republican president in a time of war promising a health center in every county.)
Lordy.
I loved “here buildings fell and here a nation rose,” and I cried every single time anything whatsoever having to do with 9-11 came on screen. Apparently that’s what I’m going to be doing for the rest of my life.
I didn’t care for the soaring liberty rhetoric, because I have now read enough to conclude that Iraq is a mess, and I’d like to know how it’s going to not be a mess any time soon. (The FOREIGN AFFAIRS article was the tipping point for me, link below if you’re interested.)
I loved the baseball metaphor, which I don’t see as a dig at Kerry, or not primarily. What’s up with Kerry & his pitch? I heard he got booed—did he screw up the pitch?
I’ve mentioned that I’ve been reading a little (very little) about civil religion, and my husband pointed out a couple of weekends ago, after we’d gone to a Mets game one Sunday, that baseball is the church of American civil religion. Ritual, the flag, standing and singing the anthem in the 7th inning—–it’s amazing, when you first see it that way. I felt like I’d spent the whole day at church!
Also, my husband said that foreigners almost never understand baseball. The French don’t get it at all. It’s a unique sport, because you don’t have a team moving a ball down a court; you have two individuals squaring off against each other, as in a fight or a battle, but they win or lose because of the team. (I realize this is not news to anyone here, but I hadn’t understood how unusual this is. Like all Americans, I see baseball as obvious and natural even though I’ve never been a fan. Baseball is in my DNA.)
The Bushies were smart and savvy to make pitching from the mound in the Yankees Stadium after 9-11 the metaphor for his presidency–and they were right to use a metaphor, rather than an image from the day of 9-11 itself. That moment promises strength, sanity, decency, and, yes, normalcy (hello, Mickey Kaus!). Democrat or Republican, dove or hawk, everyone loves baseball.
Ultimately, watching the speech, I found that I simply like the guy. I’m pretty tired of his presidency, mainly because I’m tired of getting beat-up for supporting him, but also because I think they may have run out of ideas on Iraq, and after 4 years in office they still don’t seem to have come up with any ideas on Iran.
But I like the guy, and I trust him to do his best, which won’t be worse than anyone else could do under the circumstances and IMO will certainly be better than anything Kerry would do.
Kerry is out of the question in any case.
Character counts.
What Went Wrong in Iraq By Larry Diamond
Sep 3, 2004 - 4:41 am 38. Catherine:devildog
Kerry will be thrashed for reopening the wounds of Vietnam
Absolutely.
I said this FROM THE BEGINNING.
I try not to make statements this blunt, but Kerry is too stupid to be president.
Pop quiz:
Which image will attract more voters?
A) The candidate serving in Vietnam.
B) The candidate throwing a baseball from the mound at Yankee Stadium one month after 9-11.
Explain.
Sep 3, 2004 - 4:45 am 39. Catherine:devildog
He’ll be thrashed not only for reopening those wounds, but for enlarging them.
Look at what’s happened.
Vietnam veterans who did not want to be drawn into the fray, men whose personal policy was to dislike John Kerry in private but speak no ill of him in public, have been pulled in by John Kerry & his team.
First Brinkley’s biography insulted superior officers who had kept their own counsel for many, many years. (Apparently the bio pulled Hoffman into the Swift Boat campaign.)
Then Kerry’s reaction to the campaign pulled in even more men who had planned to stay out of it, up to and including Bob Dole, for God’s sake.
This is definitely not a guy you want making decisions about war & peace.
Sep 3, 2004 - 4:52 am 40. Catherine:Syl
I’m disappointed in Susan Estrich.
My Democratic friends are mad as hell, and they aren’t going to take it any more.
She is refighting the last war.
I have no idea how mainstream Democrats feel, but I’m sure not hearing this from the “real people” Democrats around me.
My husband’s first reaction to the TIMES story on the Swifties was Estrich’s: Democrats Nice, Republicans Mean.
That’s gone now.
(If someone wants to tell me how to post in tiny letters the way Syl did, I’d be grateful!)
Sep 3, 2004 - 4:59 am 41. Catherine:one more thing
I forgot to mention that I loved the “production values” of the convention. The rippling flag graphic behind the podium was incredible (thought the first-night elephant with the huge trunk was dreadful as a back-drop in speaker close-ups).
The president-in-the-round idea was perfect, and the “paper fireworks” shot from the floor were amazing!
Sep 3, 2004 - 5:07 am 42. ambisinistral:“The vice president called me unfit for office (Wednesday) night. I guess Iíll leave it up to the voters whether five deferments make someone more qualified to defend this nation than two tours of duty.”
The above quote got a lot of play. Even wierder then running a campaign about a tour of duty in Vietnam is running against the Vice President.
Sep 3, 2004 - 5:12 am 43. Mike_Nargizian:COMMENTER SAYS DEMS NOT FIGHTING HARD ENOUGH
I was listening to either CNN or MSNBC and they had on a commentator among a group (a plain speaking black guy?) he was pissed bcs he said the Dems don’t get it. He said this is a doggy dog game and you go for the kill you go for the win whatever it takes and they don’t get that.
DOWD AGREES
Maureen O’Dowd (take it for what its worth) says on Larry King that the Republican Convention was brilliant and that noone should be surprised that they were going to rip Kerry’s face off….
MIDNIGHT BARNSTORMING BY KERRY/EDWARDS
Ironically, after the President’s speech CNN and MSNBC IMMEDIATELY went to John Edwards and John Kerry speaking to an audience last night at 11-Midnight……
I think the Kerry campaign is worried about the momentum shift and decided that they weren’t going to let it sit… so they did something that no candidate ever does considered ‘bad taste’ hold a rally the night of the other candidate’s convention.
I don’t know if Kerry scored anything but he did get his face and voice on the television the night the President did…..
I thought it was cheesey, pathetic and desperate but I’m leaning towards W and can’t stand Kerry.
For independents just seeing his face could help mitigate some momentum….
It will be interesting to see the ratings for the networks last night and if and how much of a BUMP the Republicans got.
Mike
PS How bout them Red Sox eh? Is this a reverse of 1978? 10 1/2 now 3 1/2 games http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings out in a few weeks. http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:9wr_r8_4TssJ:hnn.us/articles/1615.html+1978+red+sox+yankees&hl=en
Sep 3, 2004 - 5:17 am 44. kellymo:Steve in Corona – virtually no one cares about the American League south of Columbus. Real baseball teams don’t have pinch hitters.
In any case, last night’s crowd in Springfield wouldn’t have any warm fuzzies for the Sox. The comment was as tone-deaf as the pro-OSU comment he made in Michigan earlier this summer. Heck, that one was nearly suicidal.
Sep 3, 2004 - 5:18 am 45. Jamie Irons:Catherine,
I don’t agree that Iraq “is a mess.”
Read, for example, the daily reports on the situation at “Strategy Page.”
Read the Iraqi bloggers.
The situation is very messy, but not “a mess.”
Jamie Irons
Sep 3, 2004 - 5:53 am 46. Connecticut Yankee:Unhappily for Kerry, the latest jobs report is good news for W:
“U.S job growth snapped back in August after two disappointing months, rising an as-expected 144,000, the Labor Department estimated Friday. The unemployment rate fell by a tenth percentage point to 5.4 percent, the lowest since October 2001.”
http://www.blogsforbush.com/index.shtml
Sep 3, 2004 - 6:14 am 47. TmjUtah:For what it is worth:
Last thing I did last night (after corralling the three new kittens we are fostering) was trot over ot a randomly selected left-of-center blog (Lefttalk) I saw mentioned on Allah.
I posted “See you in 2008. Next time elect a candidate.” on their Bush speech thread.
There are 18 replies this morning, opening with “TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL….” and going much, much further downhill from there. I even got a cut-and-paste Chomsky essay!
What planet are these people from?
Pray for Russia’s children. It could well be us tomorrow.
Sep 3, 2004 - 6:17 am 48. jerry:I have been giving some thought to the both Kerry’s and the mainstream Democratic party’s patriotism. I have come to conclusion that although the Bush campaign steadfastly refuses to get into that line or argument, that in fact Kerry and most of his supporters are in fact not patriotic either in their intentions or effect. It may surprise some of you but I was a fairly liberal Democrat until my senior year of college. I worked for McCarthy (and always get teased by comments like “I didn’t know you were old enough to work for Joe.”), which gives me some perspective on patriotic dissent. Gene McCarthy never criticized the troops, met with the enemy or exercised his dissent outside the American political process. When I was paying a visit to the University of Minnesota in the spring of 1970, the students at an anti-war rally booed him because he defended the troops. His is an example of true patriotic descent. Kerry, and his ilk, have consistently worked with foreign opponents of the United States, to frustrate and harm US interests. That may not be treason, but it certainly is unpatriotic. I also think undermining a sitting President’s ability to safeguard America in wartime for mere base political reasons is also unpatriotic. I think the reason that the Bush campaign does not bother raising the issue is that Kerry does it for him. Every time, some Democrat whines about the issue is a “the lady dost protest too much” moment for the electorate.
Bottom line: Kerry’s dissent is not patriotic dissent because it is either part of a narrow-minded political posture or an actual desire to see the US suffer harm.
I didn’t ever thing the Bill Clinton would provide a positive example for anything but I think Kerry could learn a lot from BC on dissent. Clinton has supported most of Bush’s wartime decisions even as he tries to make a case that Democrats could do a better job. As much as Kerry pretends to do this the old leftwing, pro-communist persona bleeds through.
Sep 3, 2004 - 6:18 am 49. Knucklehead:OK, since baseball has already been brought into the thread, I’ll bring up this possibly petty little item that sticks in my head from last night.
I stayed up to watch Kerry’s Midnight Madness Speech. I had to force myself off the ledge to watch the Junior Senator from MA speak, but I did that as well as I am able to last night. It was late, I was weary, it wasn’t a herculean effort, and I managed it fine.
So there I am, waiting, as calm as I can be wrt this, and Kerry got off to a good start.
He started (all this is paraphrasing) with, “Something very important happened tonight.” which got my attention and had me listening carefully – good technique.
He continued with, “The Boston Red Sox pulled to within…”. This really focused my attention because I’m one of lunatics who actually cares about this. It also accomplished something Kerry has never managed to do for me before. It peeled away the hostility I feel for the man because I’ve been involved in this sort of give and take with my Bahston Buddies for many years. Its fun for those of us who can manage not to foam up about it.
So there I sat, listening carefully, my inherent dislike for the man momentarily stripped away, and he’s in the middle of saying something I can relate to fully, completely. So how does he finish this?
“…two and a half games of the New York Yankees!. Yeah, so what. Well, I gotta tell those of you who are not part of The Greatest Rivalry in Sports that anyone who is following The Greatest Rivalry in Sports knew, well before midnight last night, that both teams has won their respective games and that the margin between them was unchanged and remained at three and a half games.
I know this may seem an insanely petty point to those who don’t give a rat’s patoot, but I sat there dumbfounded that this idiot who was starting his Big Counterattack with this particular item coudl get the simplest fact of it wrong. He is a Loon and a Dolt and his campaign staff is incompetent.
Further comments… Those who know far more about campaigns and presenting images to the potential voting citizenry or the faithful base can educate me if I’ve got this all wrong, but Kerry’s whole package last night struck me as ill-conceived. It just looked disheveled to me – especially Edwards. I don’t see how that was a good thing to do immediately following the high-sheen production of the other guy’s national convention. I know I’m biased negatively about the Dems in general and both halfs of their ticket in particular, but I would have been disappointed in the Bush campaign if they’d followed up the DNC so closely with anything that looked tired or slapped together. And the Ambulance Chaser looked wrung out last night.
Bush seemed to speak about as well as he is capable last evening. I can’t comment on whether or not he violated CW by making the speech too SOTU or whatever, or too detailed or not detailed enough. I liked it fine, it didn’t leave me standing and pumping my fist in the air (that’s unlikely to happen no matter what, but Zell Miller accomplished it so it is possible). It was fine with me, but the guy had my vote wrapped up a long time ago.
Sep 3, 2004 - 6:21 am 50. Knucklehead:Yo, Kellymo! (sorry, but I can’t resist…) Only girlie-folks mired in the past enjoy watching pitchers “hit”. And if there is anything in this world that is over-hyped, it is the idea that the use of the double-switch requires managerial brilliance. BTW, the DH is used in almost all levels and variants of baseball other than the falsely “traditional” NL (I apologize, but I just couldn’t resist ringing that bell ;>)
Sep 3, 2004 - 6:42 am 51. Charlie (Colorado):It seems to me that certain people have a habit of assuming that other people are questioning their patriotism when in fact they are simply saying the guy is an asshole.
Awe and admiration.
Sep 3, 2004 - 6:58 am 52. Charlie (Colorado):(we now know he met with the communist Vietnamese 3 times, and apparently took part in a shakedown racket where POW families were promised some communication with their POW if they agreed to denounce the war.)
Whoo hoo! John, have you got documentation?
I remember hearing rumors about this back in the day, but I always thought it was John Birch tinfoil-hattery.
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:03 am 53. penwil:So the Dems are mad and they’re going to get nasty, are they? Here’s an idea: how about, Bush lied, people died! Bush was AWOL! Bush = Hitler? Bush orchestrated/knew about 9/11?
Oh, wait, they’ve done that already.
The Dems shot their wad on that stuff this past summer, and since they had the assistance of the MSM to beat on the man month after the month, the result is now that they’ve pretty much innoculated Bush against anything more. I mean, what could possibly be left? Anyone stupid enough to drink the kool aid has done it already,
I think we need to see Kerry’s medical records. Only an extreme narcissist would think it a good idea to follow up your opponant’s polished oration, one that was full hope and pride and the occasional inspiring words, with a hastily cobbled together defensive/attack speech of your own. Only a narcissist could not see that he was only going to suffer by comparison, and come off looking both desperate and rude.
And Kerry really, really needs to shut up about baseball already. He throws like a girl. Enough said.
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:06 am 54. Knucklehead:I’d forgotten to mention another point in Kerry’s Midnight Madness Speech that left me dumbfounded at the sheer tone deafness of Kerry and his campaign.
I was nearly recovered from the idiotic gaffe about the Yanks-Bosox margin when he stood there, paused, and described George W. Bush, the President of the United States of America, as Big Hat, No Cattle. It left me slack-jawed and thinking, “Good God, you moron. Some portion of voting public of the US is developing this unease about you but may lack some defining phrase to net it out for themselves, and you stand there and give them the bumper sticker phrase that describes yourself perfectly! What a dope!”
OK, maybe a better phrase wrt to John Kerry is All Wind, No Sail, but its the same point.
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:07 am 55. Charlie (Colorado):Catharine:
By typing it this way:
<blockquote>
You get this.
</blockquote>
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:09 am 56. TmjUtah:Hey -
Why is Kerry’s speech from last night striking such a discordant note?
Here’s why: He declined to lay back and let the Times, Post, CNN, et al set the meme for a few days before he acted.
This is a first. And I venture it may turn out to be a last.
There’s no there there.
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:12 am 57. Charlie (Colorado):I’ve got to admit that while I caught the reference to the Big Rivalry — and actually thought it was both funny and effective — I didn’t catch the mistake in the standings.
(Hey, I follow the Rockies, and before that the Mets and the Astros. When you live in the basement, the penthouse and the floor below aren’t that different.)
I can’t decide — on the one hand, if I didn’t get it I can’t get too excited that Kerry didn’t. On the other hand, when I think about it, it seems very much like some speechwriter wrote it for him and it’s just another bit of posturing.
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:18 am 58. Lola:Knucklehead
Oh, you’re so right about this. I thought it was really odd that he would choose midnight to have this rally. Like anyone is going to be staying up to watch it on the news. Big whoppee. Some of us folks have got to get up bright and early to go to work, ya know. Kinda goes to show how much in touch with real world Kerry is. Contrast that with Bush, who goes to bed early and gets up early. Many of us working folks with daytime jobs do that as well.
And who was it that gave Kerry the baseball statistics??? Anyone even halfway intelligent on the staff?
Charlie (Colorado)
Ahem . . . SWVTs Forum . . . lots of good info and insights to wade through.
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:26 am 59. penwil:” . . . described George W. Bush, the President of the United States of America, as Big Hat, No Cattle.
Oh, good God. He couldn’t even get that right. The expression, as anyone born and raised out West can tell you, is, “He’s ALL hat and no cattle.”
What a snooty, effiminate, prep school phony.
And contrast that to Bush making fun of both himself and his critics re his swagger . . . “In Texas we call that walking.”
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:40 am 60. Knucklehead:Penwil,
I am the one who probably got the “Big” confused with “All”. To the TX purists the phrase may be “All Hat, No Cattle” and that may, indeed, have been how Kerry said it. To those of us who aren’t from TX, there is no meaningful difference between “All Hat, No Cattle” and “Big Hat, No Cattle”. Texans wear Big Hats, not All Hats
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:50 am 61. Knucklehead:Hey, Penwil, I gotta axe… what’s the corresponding phrase when applied to TX women: All Hair, No Nails or Big Hair, No Nails?
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:52 am 62. richard mcenroe:Charlie(Colorado) The VVAW approached the families of American POW’s and told them they could send and receive mail to their imprisoned loved ones through the VVAW, but only if they agreed to publicly denounce the war…
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:57 am 63. Fresh Air:Knuckle–
I agree there is nothing magic about the double-switch, though it does add another element to the game to keep it interesting.
But what’s wrong with having a pitcher who isn’t afraid to expose his frame to incoming from the other team’s pitcher? Hitting is a core competency of baseball. Would you go to a mechanic who couldn’t change a tire?
The D.H. is for girlie men.
Sep 3, 2004 - 7:59 am 64. penwil:Knucklehead,
Ah, you see, it’s a subtle difference, but an important one. In Texas everyone wears a big hat, so there’s nothing wrong with having a big hat. In fact big hats are good, they keep the rain and sun off your head and the brambles from scratching your face when riding through brush. And if you can afford the dough for an expensive genuine Stetson with a rattlesnake skin band from a rattlesnake that you shot yourself, then there’s nothing wrong with that either, because if it’s true then it ain’t bragging. Where the insult comes in is when it is implied that your big hat is all you got.
Hence: He’s all hat and no cattle.
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:01 am 65. Knucklehead:Penwil,
Thanks for ’splainin the nuances of cultural references
. Now I got it and I won’t make the mistake again.
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:04 am 66. Erik:The “All Hat, No Cattle” doesn’t really appear to be that original in this election…
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/browse/No-1_Nao-1_Ntk-All_pp-2_pv-bush~04.10362113_N-0_Ntt-no+cattle
And it seems to be an equal opportunity joke:
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/browse/No-1_Nao-1_Ntk-All_pv-irregulargoods.6971849_N-0_Ntt-no+cattle
I tried googling for what Kerry actually said, but couldn’t find it.
Wouldn’t surprise me if he got that wrong, this is after all the guy that claimed he loved to stalk deer with a shotgun…
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:07 am 67. Percy Dovetonsils:Just a quick reality check regarding the Halliburton bogeyman:
Halliburton posted annual profits in 1999, 2000, and 2001. They have lost well over $2.55 billion (that’s with a B) since the start of 2002. Doesn’t war profiteering require actually making freakin’ profits???
I realize trying to explain business concepts as income statements to the Left is a lost cause, but… I’m so goddamn tired of hearing some bushy haired bicycle messenger regurgitating warmed-over Chomskyisms… and then I turn on my TV to see the carnage at that Russian school.
No one’s making a profit on this g*ddamn war. No one wants this g*ddamn war.
Sorry for the language. I’ve just had it up to here with these people.
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:07 am 68. penwil:“Hey, Penwil, I gotta axe… what’s the corresponding phrase when applied to TX women: All Hair, No Nails or Big Hair, No Nails?”
Knuck, it just goes against the laws of nature to have the big hair without the nails, so you’ll never see it. Never.
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:08 am 69. Percy Dovetonsils:But on a lighter note…
Knucklehead, nothin’ but love for ya, babe, but the DH was forged in the fiery pits of Hades itself.
Get thee to a monastery and repent, blasphemer!
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:10 am 70. Knucklehead:Fresh Air,
That’s like suggesting to a Marine that sniping is for girlie-men since the shooter doesn’t expose himself to return fire
.
I was just funnin’ wit Kellymo and REALLY don’t want to go down the DH rathole. Its a purists sort of argument. I will point out, however, that pitchers having to face up to getting buzzed in response to buzzing is a relatively low-frequency occurrence whereas suffering through the nearly automatic and intensely boring out in the lineup is a painfully predictable occurrence.
But since I can never shut up about anything, I will point out that if one looks at, for example, the top ten team pitching staff HBP numbers we have five teams from each league so it doesn’t seem that having the pitcher hit reduces HBP.
BTW, have a look at the which teams are two of the top three for HBP/Headhunting – think we’re gonna have some Old-fashioned Country Hardball now through Nov?
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:25 am 71. Mr Vee:Trudeau pounded the “All hat, no cattle” meme back in 2000 in Doonesbury, which of course is where the representation of “W” as a disembodied Cowboy Hat in his cartoon comes from.
It does beg the question what kind of shape Kerry is in when he’s recycling attack lines from 2000 against Bush after four days of taking roundhouses to the jaw at the GOP convention AND this coming after two weeks haymakers delivered by the SBVFT?
I’m sorry, John, but after Zell Miller stopped just short of beseeching the almighty to descend from the heavans to smite your execrable visage, stealing 4 year old jokes from a hippie cartoonist won’t get the job done.
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:30 am 72. Mike_Nargizian:Charlie
I’m more interested in how you got blockquote with the brackets around it to show up in the text without creating a blockquote as you try and explain it.
I just tried 3 times to have it show up using ” and ‘ inside and outside the brackets and each time I previewed it, it was invisible creating an indent!
LOL!!
Now that’s a neat trick.
Mike
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:31 am 73. ambisinistral:Upon reflection, a few things struck me about last night’s Kerry speech.
First, by now it is clear that Kerry’s stand on most any position is a nuanced spectrum rather than a clear and comprehensible statement. With that in mind, when he did mention Iraq, the position he took was closer to the Cut-and-Run from the Quagmire end of his opinion spectrum than his Stand Fast and Do It Better stance.
In all, I thought he had moved farther to the left in his speech last night. I think he must feel he has to fortify his base at this late stage of the campaign. While Bush’s campaign reaches for the center Kerry’s ineptitude has caused him to slide away from the center. Bad timing on his part yet again.
The Republicans had just spent four days attacking, not his Vietnam service, but his Senate voting record. Kerry started his speech by dragging the debate back to the Vietnam war. The fact that he has avoided reporters’ interviews for the month of SBVT charges shows just how confident he is of being able to handle questions about his tour of duty. Yet, given the opportunity to move on and change the nature of the debate, he is completely unable to grasp the exit presented.
He is the one keeping the Vietnam debate alive. Facing a soft ball interview on the Comedy Channel he can’t answer the Cambodia question. How long does he think he can avoid giving an interview where that question has to be answered?
When he did move onto domestic issues it was a litany of Bush failures. A fairly predictable strategy, but what was noticably absent was any mention of 9/11 and its impact on the U.S. economy. One might expect him to criticize Bush’s handling of the recovery from 9/11, but — by scrubbing 9/11’s wide ranging effects from any of his calculations — Kerry tried to give the impression that the economy had been mishandled by Bush and Bush alone.
Perhaps that reflects an inclination to relegate the 9/11 attacks to police rather then military territory. To further seperate Iraq from the WoT. However to me it just seemed to be another example of the fundamental dishonesty that seems to be at the core of John Kerry. Just as he reordered reality in his story of being inside Cambodia on Christmas Eve for the turning point of his young adulthood, last night he factored out 9/11 because it complicated his charges of economic mismanagement.
How did he ever get the Democratic nomination?
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:32 am 74. Knucklehead:Percy,
Get thee to a monastery and repent, blasphemer!
Never! I’m Walkin on the Wild Side!
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:38 am 75. Lola:ambisinistral
Beats me. He was set up?
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:43 am 76. Rick Ballard:How did he ever get the Democratic nomination?
He purchased it with his wife’s money. He’s never gotten anything in the last thirty years that wasn’t acquired in the same way.
BTW – Where did Teresa go? Her negatives must be higher than his. I wonder if they’ve got her locked in a closet somewhere.
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:44 am 77. RogerA:Is the Kerry campaign so inept as to have a midnite rally that criticizes the vice president? No one could be that stupid!
OT but interesting–the democratic meme has been the number of jobs lost–Polipundit has a blogger that can wade through the morass of labor statistics. You wont find these mentioned by the MSM: http://polipundit.com/2004_08_29_polipundit_archive.html#109422123676422000
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:47 am 78. RogerA:Rick Ballard: I understand Terayzah is antagonizing the voters in Iowa.
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:50 am 79. Fresh Air:One thing I will say for Kerry in Vietnam v1.0 is he had a much better haircut back then. Now he looks like he goes to a barber who blow dries poodles. Maybe he should get a Flowbee.
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:50 am 80. Knucklehead:Erik,
Its a minor point, but there are places in the US where one is not permitted to hunt with a rifle – too crowded and rifles have too much range. So there are plenty of people who hunt deer with shotgun. I suppose few of those actually stalk rather than using blinds or working with drivers, but since some bow hunters seem to stalk its not impossible that some shotgunners stalk. All that said, nobody hunts deer with shotgun unless they have to and since the reason they have to is way too many amateurs and way too little space stalking during shotgun season might not be all that bright since there is way too much risk of some moron being nearby who will shoot at any snapping twig or rustling leaves.
Still, Kerry strikes me as the sort of guy who hunts deer every ten years whether he needs to or not and will be outfitted like Teddy Roosevelt on Safari each and every time.
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:54 am 81. ricpic:The Democrats Respond:
Bush is *#+&X*+#!*+!
Cheney is *#+X!*#+&!
And that ladies and gentlemen is the sum and substance of what we have to say.
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:57 am 82. Knucklehead:RogerA,
They are recycling back around to the memes of old, aren’t they. Last night Kerry hit on the “Only President Since Hoover to have a net job loss” idiocy. Of course, at least they’ve backed off the Great Depression Times Ten lunacy.
They will never use anything but the payroll numbers, however. For one thing those are the only numbers they can point to that are in their favor. For another that’s all Big Labor cares about. For another all those nasty little self-employed and under-capitalized firms that don’t show up on the payroll numbers are sand in the gears of the Dems Federal Government Sponsored Corporatist Welfare State wetdream. And last, but perhaps not least, a good portion of the Buchananite Right is fully convinced that the only “good” job is a “payroll” job – everything else is flipping burgers.
I don’t know if the relentless pounding of drums on these old memes is a sign that they are totally incompetent or have no other drums to pound on or that they actually believe this stuff or think everyone else is stupid enough to focus on nothing but the same tired old tripe or, perhaps, their base is dissolving and they’ve got to do something to shore it up. All in all, I take it as yet more evidence that the Dem Party is Moonbat Central.
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:08 am 83. Knucklehead:Oh, BTW, RogerA! The numbers PoliPundit puts up have shows the starting point as Dec. 2000. Bush took office in late Jan. 2001. It might be “more fair” to have a starting point of Feb. 2001 or, at least, Jan 2001. For the life of me I can’t find the BLS statistics again, but I went down this bunny trail a few weeks ago and, IIRC, even the payroll numbers from Jan or Feb 2001 till Aug 2004 show a net gain – small, but not a loss.
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:19 am 84. Sandy P:as Big Hat, No Cattle
JFK – Big HAIR, No cattle
BUBBA’s Had a quadruple bypass – I want to know was he on top or bottom?
Wait – do I really want to know?????
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:26 am 85. Jamie Irons:Knucklehead:
I grant your points about the shotgun hunting of deer, but who does it crawling on his belly?
***
On a different note…
I was wondering about this
myself, when I had a fleeting vision of Karl Rove, on hearing about Kerry’s midnight Geschrei, scratching his head and muttering, “Every time I think of a trick to bait this guy into doing something self-destructive, he beats me to the punch…”
Kerry is one of the few people I have ever seen who can sucker punch himself!
Jamie Irons
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:26 am 86. John Lynch:Knuck
I hate to ask.
I was in what passes for political conversation with a leftie the other day. The jobs issue came up. I remembered some of the stats you had relayed here, but couldn’t recall them well enough, or source them. I didn’t use them in the conversation.
Do you recall the post, and the source, and/or the stats?
In case it comes up again.
Thanks in advance.
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:28 am 87. DennisThePeasant:Steve In Corona-
What kellymo said. What was even more pathetic about the Bosox reference is that the Columbus Clippers are the Yankee’s AAA affiliate. Central Ohio, to the extent it doesn’t root for the Indians or Reds, roots for the Yankees. I would also note that if there is one word to characterize the Bosox amongst non-Bosox baseball fans, it’s “losers”…didn’t the press spend all last year rehashing the ‘curse of the Bambino’? Just what John needs to do…align himself with a baseball team famed for its’ inability to win the big one. More fine staff work by the Kerry Campaign and another example of John’s unerring instinct for hitting the wrong note.
Ambi-
I got the same sense of Leftward movement from Kerry’s speech. I think this is the combined result of frustration and panic.
To me at least, it has been very clear that one of the key components of Kerry’s strategy was to claim he could ‘manage’ Iraq, the WoT and foreign policy better than Bush. In other words, claiming his differences with Bush were more in the area of proper execution of policies they fundamentally agreed upon. To Kerry’s advisors, this must have appeared to be the best of both worlds, they could more towards the center (where the voters were) and still keep the Hard Left relatively happy.
Unfortunately, this can only work if you can project an aura of competence to the electorate regarding Iraq, the WoT and foreign policy, and it is very clear that Kerry and his team have been unable to do this. Because Kerry has been unwilling or unable to lay out a set of comprehensive, sophisticated and detailed policy positions, he has allowed the RNC, the Bush Administration, the SBVFT and now Zell Miller to frame the public’s perception of John Kerry’s foreign policy.
That Kerry would now veer Left rather than lay out Centerist policy positions tells me that neither Kerry nor his staff have the horsepower to actually put together the position papers and speechs necessary to make a continuance of the Centerist strategy actually work. To be bald about it, it is becoming clear that Kerry’s heart was with the Anti-War Left from the beginning, and the rest was simply bullshit coobled together to try to win the election. I am also betting that Kerry’s decline in the polls has strengthened the hand of those in his organization that want to come out Anti-War for the rest of the campaign.
On Estrich-
Susan Estrich does have a proven record of complete incompetence, but we really shouldn’t be too hard on her. The reason she sounds like a complete idiot, other than the fact that she is an idiot, is that the Kerry campaign has been unable to supply people like her with either usable themes or talking points for the entirety of the Republican convention. Same with Chris Matthews and Mark Shields. They are foundering because they have not been given any direction by the Kerry people as to what to say and why. So, when that happens, people like Susan Estrich simply have to fall back on whatever they can think of themselves…which is never pretty. Look at Andrew Sullivan on Zell Miller: ‘I agree with Zell on Kerry’s foreign policy, but he’s scary and for Bush so I’ll call him a liar’…hey, now there’s an argument with teeth!
Similarly, this whole new theme of ‘angry Democrats’ that started emerging last night simply highlights the fact that Kerry is absolutely helpless…he and his people simply cannot for the lives of them figure out how to counter the Republicans in any meaningful way. It’s like being Al Franken…if you are too stupid to argue the positions, get pissed off and challenge someone to a fight! We know you’re mad Al, what we don’t know Al, is when placed next to a rock, whether you or the rock wins an I.Q. test. And in this case the test is more important than the fight.
I also would bet that Kerry’s internal polling told them that Zell Miller’s anger played well with potential voters…and being clueless the Kerry people jumped up and yelled “We’ll be angry to, then!” Morons.
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:32 am 88. Charlie (Colorado):Hey, Penwil, I gotta axe… what’s the corresponding phrase when applied to TX women: All Hair, No Nails or Big Hair, No Nails?
Normal.
(Sorry, I don’t even believe it, but how could anyone miss that straight line?)
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:34 am 89. Knucklehead:Jamie,
I grant your points about the shotgun hunting of deer, but who does it crawling on his belly?
Only the most dedicated and determined hunter who recently happened to nearly get his head blowed off by the newest member of the City Slickers Slot Cars and Hunting Club. You wouldn’t believe what goes on during hunting season in where the population is most dense
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:35 am 90. Knucklehead:John Lynch,
I know I tracked down the numbers and I’m pretty sure I used BLS in a post not all that long ago. How does one search the filing cabinets here at Roger’s Place.
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:37 am 91. RogerA:John Lynch: Go to the 8:47 post above and follow the link–it will ultimately take you back to BLS data–as Knuck points out there are W2 jobs and then all jobs including self employment.
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:38 am 92. Charlie (Colorado):‘m more interested in how you got blockquote with the brackets around it to show up in the text without creating a blockquote as you try and explain it.
I just tried 3 times to have it show up using ” and ‘ inside and outside the brackets and each time I previewed it, it was invisible creating an indent!
I guess that’s why I’m a guru and you’re not.
Seriously, it’s easy, albeit a little subtle.
The “less than” sign < is typed “ampersand l t semicolon” — that is <. The corresponding greater than > is >. And you can force an ampersand & by typing &. So <blockquote> is <blockquote> — and remember, preview is your friend.
Pop quiz — how’d I type that last graf?
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:42 am 93. Syl:re ‘All hat, no cattle’ a blogger (one of the zillions of links I followed from Vodkapundit last night and don’t remember who) put it this way:
All hat, no Cambodia!
LOL
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:51 am 94. penwil:NRO’s The Corner has this interesting bit this morning:
“KERRY LAST NIGHT [KJL]
A experience drinker insists: “he was drunk (or was at least under the influence of a few cocktails) … it seemed very evident to my trained eye.”
I have no idea. And don’t mean to spread a rumor–but there was something up last night involving a severe lack of judgment or utter desperation. Jim Geraghty called it the Kerry camp’s implosion moment.”
A couple of people on LGF last night also thought he seemed drunk.
Now, I didn’t watch Kerry last night, so I can’t comment on him specifically, but just speaking in general here, as the child of an alcoholic, I do know that those of us who have been exposed to alcoholism become so sensitized to the signs of inebriation that you can spot them long before the less well-trained eye can. Also, there are two major things that will send someone with a drinking problem off the wagon: external pressure and internal feelings of inadequacy. And, no matter how hard you try to keep the bottle out of that person’s hand, they will always find a way to get a drink. And, finally, if there is a drinking problem, then it is going to come out, and when it does it come out will be in the most disastrous, humiliating way possible. It literally will be like a train wreck.
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:53 am 95. Fresh Air:John Lynch–
Also there has been a huge increase in LLC formation over the past two years (up 40% in Illinois in 2003, for example.) While the data is only tracked by a couple of intrepid economists, it is strong evidence that start-ups are off and running again. (Sorry, I don’t have any links.)
Kerry, of course, is the kind of guy who would have pooh-poohed Microsoft back in 1992. Not the kind of guy you want managing your money.
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:54 am 96. John Lynch:Knuck, RogerA
Thanks. I’ll dig through them (again.) They seem useful to have around right now.
I think things will get hotter with my Dem friends here in the next few weeks.
Always good to carry live ammo. (Facts.)
Sep 3, 2004 - 10:02 am 97. Sandy P:Bill Hobbs has LLC info from most of the country.
Sep 3, 2004 - 10:09 am 98. devildog:Kerry and his spinmeisters are nothing more than ambition in search of a point of view in order to exercise that ambition.
Let’s hope this is the November 3rd edition of The Washington Post.
Sep 3, 2004 - 10:13 am 99. Jamie Irons:penwil
Could the tag line for the Kerry meltdown be (borrowing from William Jefferson Clinton (”I did not have sex with that woman,”) and Richard M. Nixon (”I am not a crook.”):
I was not drunk!
Jamie Irons
Sep 3, 2004 - 10:32 am 100. Erik:Knucklehead,
As a licensed hunter (allthough not active) in my part of the world, I’m calling BS on Kerry statement. He’s never ever done what he calls “his favorite hunting”, not once, and I’ll bet my hunting license on it.
Here’s why:
* You cant shoot an animal as big as a deer with a shotgun, unless you use special ammunition. (The deer we hunt here are smaller) You would need pellets big enough to penetrate, or you will need to use slugs.
* It’s extremelly hard to sneak up close enough on a deer. Sure, it’s possible, but you need to be a *very* good stalker to do it, a real woodsman that has spent years doing it.
* You will not do it crawling on your stomach. A human might fall for that, since we mainly rely on our eyes, but a deer rely on sound.
* You will not hunt *anything* crawling on your belly with a shotgun. Except possibly a doctor afterwards. Get debris in the barrel and it might very well blow up in your face when you fire. (A shutgun has a wide barrel, easy to get debris in it) And the safety on any shotgun I have ever heard of is not “safe”, bump the gun against something and it goes off. I’ve seen that demonstrated in a classroom. Really scared the ladies learning knitting in the next room…
Allthough you can argue that stalking deer with a shotgun is “possible”, the last one is what really makes the case.
Crawling around on your belly is a stupid way to stalk deer, and doing it with a shotgun is more dangerous to the shooter than the deer. (Here it would also very well cost you your licenses and weapons.)
I’ll give you an example of how stupid Kerrys “favorite hunt” sounds: My mother grew up around hunters, in the country. Her father was one of the best known hunters around, he even tracked down a wounded moose for the King once. I recently learned she hoped for Kerry to win (which is to be expected with the media coverage we get here). So I mentioned to her what Kerry had said about hunting deer. It was a long time since I heard my mother laugh so much…
All that makes me claim that Kerry’s never stalked deer on his stomach with a shotgun. And telling such a stupid story in front of *hunters* not only questions his judgement, but the fact that he tells a story like that when he could just be honest really shots down his credibility, at least in my eyes.
Another thing, did you hear that Kerry once claimed his favorite baseball player is Eddie “the Walking Man” Yost? Baseball fans I’ve heard comment on that said that Yost never played for the Red Sox, and that he is a very strange choice for a favorite player… (as the leader in “walks”)
To me it seems Kerry will say and do anything to try and look like “one of the boys” when he makes smalltalk. I find that character trait fake, and possibly dangerous…
Sep 3, 2004 - 10:48 am 101. Knucklehead:Erik,
I’m not trying to be contrary or argumentative here. Folks who come in from Sverige are frequently amazed by the amount of “wildlife” we have running around here. Squirrels are thicker than pigeons. They’re everywhere. The deer population is a real problem. I don’t live in a a rural area and if you come to visit we’ll have no problem showing you groundhogs galore, opossum, raccoon, even saw a fox a few weeks ago…
We call the “special ammunition” buckshot. Its perfectly common here. IIRC we even have several grades of busckshot, but its been a long time, so I could be wrong about that. Slugs are not normally legal for hunting, IIRC, because they sort of marginally give a shotgun rifle like characteristics.
BTW, I have shot a LARGE (approx 90-100 kilo) white tail male) using a shotgun and buckshot. But we didn’t stalk, we hid and waited in a place where deer were likely to come strolling by. In general, we call this using a “blind” or a “sit”, but it doesn’t require any particular hiding place. Building a small platform in a tree is fairly common for this.
I don’t hunt anymore and that was MANY years ago, but believe me, 3 in. magnum 12-guage buckshot will bring down a large deer if you’re close enough (25 – 30 meters).
In general, Erik, this is true. That’s why few people actually “stalk” (try to sneak up on) deer while using a shotgun – you need to get too close. The very craftiest hunters do this, but most of those use a bow rather than a shotgun.
Now, there is a reason why your statement isn’t completely true in all circumstances. Here in NJ, for example, white-tail deer are insanely overpopulated. I get within shotgun range of deer several times per week while out walking my dog, and that is in a local park in a pretty darned crowded suburban area with other dogs and people all over the place. Deer have lost a great deal of their fear of humans around here. Walking up to within 10 meters of a doe (female deer), even a doe with her fawns, is child’s play.
For the most part deer hunting is for males and males are much harder to find and get close to, but even they are not wildly difficult in, for example, my neck of the woods. But we have so many deer that we have doe season also.
This is absolutely true. Nobody does their deer hunting using an army crawl. I don’t know of any sort of hunting that does. My comment above regarding this was a joke based upon local conditions. A lot of people who really shouldn’t be handling shotguns let alone running around the woods during hunting season are suddenly running around the woods with shotguns during deer season. They fancy themselves hunters, but are basically over their heads. It is not uncommon for these sorts of idiots to shoot at or near one another. Nearly every year, during deer season, somebody’s dog or horse or cow or somesuch winds up getting shot by some idiot who has no clue what he’s doing or should have waited till he went home to drink his beers. Its a problem. Its gotten better but its still bad.
While I fully agree with you that Kerry is full of BS, don’t confuse hunting as its done in Sweden with “popular” hunting in the US. You Swedes can’t even concieve of the gun and hunting situation over here – its outter space compared to Sweden.
Sep 3, 2004 - 11:24 am 102. devildog:Erik wrote:
To me it seems Kerry will say and do anything to try and look like “one of the boys” when he makes smalltalk. I find that character trait fake, and possibly dangerous…
Erik, in case you missed this on Allah Is In The House he has Kerry approaching two good-old boys in a bar with Kerry saying:
“Ah, Le proletariat Americain. At last we meet. Tell me, how shall I charm you, hm? Shall we banter about la femme? Shall we share un anecdote de sports? Or perhaps–”
Check out all the “Dean-o” series, they’re dated, but still hilarious.
Sep 3, 2004 - 11:29 am 103. Knucklehead:Erik,
Here’s a true “hunting” story for you that might help illustrate the enormous difference between Sweden and the US. My dad was from Alabama and when I was a kid we’d go down to visit nearly every summer. They have “flying squirrels” down south – perfectly common. We were visiting a cousin one day and I, just a kid mind you, mentioned that I didn’t believe there was any such thing as a “flying squirrel”. My cousin, a backwoods redneck of the first order, laughed at me, grabbed a pair of work gloves, and ran out in the woods. He came back in less than 30 minutes with a live flying squirrel for me to look at. Google ‘em up – their really cool
BTW, I have “hunted” for moose in Sweden. Not with a gun, just going out in the woods to see if I could find one up close and personal. We were visiting a farmor who lived in a rural area. She was showing me her vegetable garden which was surrounde by hedgerow that was at least 5 feet high and very thick. While I was looking around I noticed that some of her plants had been torn up and there were these enormous animal tracks. I was looking at the hedgerow and the size of the tracks and wondering how anything that big could get into the garden. So I asked her what sort of animal it was and how it got into the garden. She looked at me like I was stupid (astute woman) and told me that it was a moose and simply stepped over the hedgerow. That struck me as damned impressive and had to see one of those suckers in the wild. For several days I got up before dawn and did my best ninja sneaking around the woods but I never got so much as a wiff of a moose.
Sep 3, 2004 - 11:48 am 104. Knucklehead:Sigh… I do know the difference between there, their, and they’re but I just cannot get my fingers to recognize it. PIMF!!!!
Sep 3, 2004 - 12:04 pm 105. Erik:Knucklehead,
Thanks for the comments. I actually have some great photos I took of deer in Wyoming, from maybe 5 feet away.
Been around quite a few states, but never actually saw that much wildlife as you describe, even though I did see a few deer at Hollywood bowl once. Never heard it described that way either, from anyone I know in the US. I guess I learned something new.
(I’m not going to count the wildlife i Yellowstone, that was nuts! I was within 10ft from wild buffalo. I was really glad they decided to ignore me, they’re huge…)
Still, the main point I had was the danger of crawling around with a shotgun. I would never dream of it, no matter how much deer there was around. It’s just asking for a Darwin award. I guess there’s always some nutcase that would do it, but I dont see a US senator as being that kind of nut.
Oh, and you’re right about “buckshot”. I knew that, just couldn’t for the life of me remember the word…
We have them here too.
Moose is pretty fun, you never ever see one when you look for them, and when you’re not they’re everywhere… I had one almost swinging into my fishing lines once. A friend of mine from Germany had lived here for over 3 years, and never seen a moose though he kept trying. He couldn’t believe it when I told him there was 3-4 living in a park he passed all the time, and that it was a big attraction to go there to see them, it had even been in the paper. He went thru there every day, and never saw one.
If you ever go here again, try going in mating season and learn how to call for them. Then they’ll come to you…
Sep 3, 2004 - 12:28 pm 106. Syl:Knucklehead
“Crawling around on your belly is a stupid way to stalk deer, and doing it with a shotgun is more dangerous to the shooter than the deer.”
Um, sounds like a reasonable thing for Kerry to do. How do you think he got all those purple hearts for self-inflicted wounds?
Sep 3, 2004 - 12:31 pm 107. Erik:Knucklehead,
Sigh… I do know the difference between there, their, and they’re but I just cannot get my fingers to recognize it.
I know the feeling. I never did that back in school, then after I lived in the US for a short time I cant stop myself from doing it…
Same with two, to and too…
It’s annoying, those fingers have a will of their own…
Sep 3, 2004 - 12:32 pm 108. Knucklehead:Syl,
That was Erik who realizes it is stupid to crawl with a shotgun. I’m the knucklehead and just recently learned why cirular firing squads aren’t a good idea.
Sep 3, 2004 - 12:35 pm 109. Erik:Oh, just remembered a hunting story about moose and a special kind of hunters
Hunting moose here is very popular among hunters from another country. They go here, and pay huge amounts for it. It’s sort of a running joke here (true or not) that they cant even recognice a moose, and will gladly shoot a cow instead if it’s within range…
A while back, a group of hunters from that country got a license up north to shoot one moose. They walked around looking, but couldn’t find one, then they bumped into a herd of some animal they didn’t recognize… They discussed it, and decided that it wasn’t moose, but that the landowner would probably be happy about some extra meat, and proceeded shooting a dozen of them..
It turned ot to be the breeding stock of the landowners reindeer herd, and he was not happy about it…
Sep 3, 2004 - 1:24 pm 110. Knucklehead:Erik,
Thanks for the laugh! You reminded me of the time we took the whole family on the “Inland Tog” train trip (don’t know if it still runs or not). Up there in Samer country they told us how the Samers, if they needed cash, would push a few reindeer out in front of a train because if the trains hit any of their reindeer they’d have to pay for them. (For those who wonder WTF? Samers are sort of like Eskimos and they herd reindeer).
You also called to mind remarks I heard recently from a friend who loves to hunt. He has a remote cabin that he loves to go to to hunt. Hunting wild turkey is notoriously difficult – they are very crafty birds. Anyway, I knew the guy had been up at his cabin and I asked him how things were up there and the first thing he did was grumble about how all weekend there were turkeys all over his property and he couldn’t even frighten them away. The thing that got him angry about it was, as he put it, “I’ve been hunting turkey for thirty years and I’ve never even seen one while I’m hunting. When its not hunting season I can’t get rid of the stupid things!”
Sep 3, 2004 - 1:55 pm 111. RogerA:Another tangent to the wandering thread? I would like to hear your views on this election finally exorcising the ghost of Viet Nam. Does it matter who wins? My own view at this time is that the election, irrespective of the outcome, will not finish the Viet Nam debate. Of course, one reality is that the pool of us Viet Nam vets gets a bit smaller, and will eventually go the way of all demographic cohorts–but does the groups see a surcease of sorrows? or will the debate continue until the cohort finally disappears.
Sep 3, 2004 - 2:14 pm 112. Knucklehead:RogerA,
I have no crystal ball, but here’s my knuckleheaded take on this. If Bush wins there will be a point not far down the road where the MSM has to take a hard look at itself and start repairing itself. If that happens they’ll be about a decade of slow but sure repair of the general national “narrative” regarding Vietnam and, especially, those of you who served there.
If Kerry wins, especially if that is pulled off with the help of lunacy like Estrich is advocating and the MSM enables that idiocy, then the Moonbats will believe they’ve fully taken over and they’ll be no end to villifying anyone and everyone they believe they have a beef with.
Or, to put it another way, if Bush wins it will get ugly for a while but turn around and head in the right direction relatively soon. If Kerry wins we’ve got a whole lot more of the death spiral to suffer through.
I have that feeling about things that I got on the few occassions when a daughter would go bonkers about something. I’m the adult and I needed to behave like an adult but there was nothing that could be done about the shrieking childish tantrum except weather it and deal with it finally broke. The Dems are on the verge of throwing the Mother of All Adolescent Shrieking Hissey Fits and there isn’t anything the rest of us can do other than continue to act like adults until it breaks and then figure out how to properly administer whatever punishment is called for. I am hoping that somebody like a Lieberman teamed up with whatever shreds of sanity remains can talk some sense into the Lunatic Fringe they’ve inflamed. But stuff like MoveOn and DU and the like may be beyond the Dems ability to get back on a leash.
Sep 3, 2004 - 2:41 pm 113. lindenen:Anyone who would shoot reindeer deserves a beatdown.
Also, the squirrels in my vicinity are often seen carrying french fries. No, really. They love waffle fries.
Sep 3, 2004 - 4:23 pm 114. Knucklehead:Lindeman,
I assure you, reindeer are quite shootable. They are food and leather goods and such. Very similar to non-dairy cows. Squat, ugly little suckers who’s owners apparently have few qualms about tossing in front of of a train (Throw Rudolph From The Train)
Sep 3, 2004 - 8:35 pm 115. richard mcenroe:“All hair, no spine?”
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:10 pm 116. richard mcenroe:We’ve seen Kerry crash and burn on the bunny slopes: “that SOB knocked me down!”
We’ve seen Kerry try to throw a baseball. “That soldier missed the catch!”
We’ve seen Kerry get knocked on his butt in a high school football scrimmage (no soundtrack so write your own caption).
Does anyone believe Senator Lurch could creep up on a deer? “That possum spooked my deer!”
Sep 3, 2004 - 9:26 pm 117. Erik:True story about reindeers I heard from a paratrooper:
The paratroopers were up north for survival training above the treeline (”fjellen”). They managed to pick the coldest weeks for years, average temperature was -40C and they had no food with them, and survived on moss and whatever plants they could dig out. They were constantly cold and hungry, and hated it. The instructors loved it.
The troopers saw all these reindeers around everywhere, and asked the instructors why they couldn’t just shoot one of them, after all it was “survival training”.. The instructors said “no, that’s Same property” but after a lot more discussions, they said that they would see what could be done.
Hours later, the troopers see a snowmobile coming up to them. A Same steps of it, dressed in traditional clothes (think of an indian chief in an old western, and you get the impression it made on the troopers).
The Same has a small scrawny reindeer calf tied up on the snowmobile, he puts it on the ground in front of them, and says (this looses a lot in translation, he spoke with a very distinct Samish accent) “You want-a reindeerh? Here you got-a reindeerh!”
He reaches to his side, pulls a Luger pistol, shoots the reindeer, gets on the snowmobile and drives off without another word. The troopers just looks at him with open mouths.
The instructor looks at them and says: “So, any of you guys know how to fielddress a reindeer? If not, you better learn fast..”
Sep 4, 2004 - 5:30 am