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	<title>Comments on: Strong Stuff</title>
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		<title>By: Knucklehead</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14756</link>
		<dc:creator>Knucklehead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14756</guid>
		<description>Sandy P.



I&#039;m picking nits here, but I don&#039;t think my wife&#039;s comment was intended as any sort of historical judgement of the long-term effects.  There isn&#039;t much doubt that the bombs are what finally forced Japan to surrender.  Arguments by historians about whether or not that saved Japanese culture or whatever are worthy and interesting, but far beyond the context or intent of her statement.



Couple interesting things from &lt;i&gt;Conversations with the Better Two-Thirds&lt;/i&gt; this AM.  She repeated her nuke &#039;em comment.  Just pull back from Najaf or wherever and nuke it to demonstrate how bad things can get.  Interesting.  I don&#039;t know precisely where this shift is coming from and its probably just temporary frustration with the new escalations of violence over there.  It will bear investigating if it continues.



She also surprised me by putting her finger on the difference in the service issue for each candidate.  I&#039;m paraphrasing but I was surprised when she started down this road so I listened pretty carefully.  What I came away with is that she understands, and can articulate, something the Kerry campaign and Dems in general seem unable to understand.  Keep in mind that she did not grow up in the US although she has been here a long time now.  And although we met while I was serving and wed before I got out, we were not a military couple for very long.



So here goes, paraphrasing the Misses...  To Americans in general the military holds a special place and level of respect. &lt;i&gt;(I find this an interesting analysis.  I was in the service post-Vietnam and one, among many, reasons I chose to get out was that I really had no desire to hold a job that seemed to be so disdained by My Fellow Citizens - it was perfectly clear to me that Americans in general thougth anyone serving must be an idiot or was somehow duped or shanghaid into serving.  So perhaps this has changed and Americans have renewed respect for servicemen and women.  I&#039;m unqualified to answer that since I decided when I left the service that I would never treat service people the way I&#039;d been treated.  Anyway...)&lt;/i&gt;



In addition to this generalized sense of respect and honor bestowed upon the military by the citizenry as a whole, those who served see themselves as an extended family and have a sense of mutual responsibiity to one another.  In the case of Bush it doesn&#039;t matter a great deal to this extended family whether or not he served in combat or avoided Vietnam or even whether or not he served particularly well.  Family members know full well that not everyone in the family is perfect or pure.  What is important is that he treats the military in ways that demonstrate he understands and cares and accepts his family responsibilities.



Kerry, on the other hand, betrayed his family responsibilities (somehow she recently saw some of the Winter Soldier congressional testimony).  He ran around town badmouthing his family and made their lives miserable and they&#039;ve disowned him and now want to discredit him for his betrayal.



Her whole tone as she went through this made it clear that she placed the &quot;blame&quot; squarely with Kerry and had did not seem to think that the military or vets were out of line in either their disdain or attacks against him.



I have long understood the things she was articulating this AM.  But I&#039;ve also long ago realized that this isn&#039;t something easily explained or easily accepted by those who don&#039;t get it for themselves.  It&#039;s and eye-roller thing for people who don&#039;t understand.  The Dems clearly don&#039;t understand.  They are going to keep attacking Bush on the ANG stuff and for most people with military experience, even just family of military, it will look like just more of the same family-bashing from Kerry.  Bush may have been a wayward brother or whatever, but he&#039;s hasn&#039;t dishonored or betrayed the family and the Traitorous Wretch just keeps on trashing away as if he can gain forgiveness and an invite to the next reunion if only he finds some way to destroy a family member.



He really should have dropped the whole Vietnam and ANG thing a long time ago.  What a Loon.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandy P.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m picking nits here, but I don&#8217;t think my wife&#8217;s comment was intended as any sort of historical judgement of the long-term effects.  There isn&#8217;t much doubt that the bombs are what finally forced Japan to surrender.  Arguments by historians about whether or not that saved Japanese culture or whatever are worthy and interesting, but far beyond the context or intent of her statement.</p>
<p>Couple interesting things from <i>Conversations with the Better Two-Thirds</i> this AM.  She repeated her nuke &#8216;em comment.  Just pull back from Najaf or wherever and nuke it to demonstrate how bad things can get.  Interesting.  I don&#8217;t know precisely where this shift is coming from and its probably just temporary frustration with the new escalations of violence over there.  It will bear investigating if it continues.</p>
<p>She also surprised me by putting her finger on the difference in the service issue for each candidate.  I&#8217;m paraphrasing but I was surprised when she started down this road so I listened pretty carefully.  What I came away with is that she understands, and can articulate, something the Kerry campaign and Dems in general seem unable to understand.  Keep in mind that she did not grow up in the US although she has been here a long time now.  And although we met while I was serving and wed before I got out, we were not a military couple for very long.</p>
<p>So here goes, paraphrasing the Misses&#8230;  To Americans in general the military holds a special place and level of respect. <i>(I find this an interesting analysis.  I was in the service post-Vietnam and one, among many, reasons I chose to get out was that I really had no desire to hold a job that seemed to be so disdained by My Fellow Citizens &#8211; it was perfectly clear to me that Americans in general thougth anyone serving must be an idiot or was somehow duped or shanghaid into serving.  So perhaps this has changed and Americans have renewed respect for servicemen and women.  I&#8217;m unqualified to answer that since I decided when I left the service that I would never treat service people the way I&#8217;d been treated.  Anyway&#8230;)</i></p>
<p>In addition to this generalized sense of respect and honor bestowed upon the military by the citizenry as a whole, those who served see themselves as an extended family and have a sense of mutual responsibiity to one another.  In the case of Bush it doesn&#8217;t matter a great deal to this extended family whether or not he served in combat or avoided Vietnam or even whether or not he served particularly well.  Family members know full well that not everyone in the family is perfect or pure.  What is important is that he treats the military in ways that demonstrate he understands and cares and accepts his family responsibilities.</p>
<p>Kerry, on the other hand, betrayed his family responsibilities (somehow she recently saw some of the Winter Soldier congressional testimony).  He ran around town badmouthing his family and made their lives miserable and they&#8217;ve disowned him and now want to discredit him for his betrayal.</p>
<p>Her whole tone as she went through this made it clear that she placed the &#8220;blame&#8221; squarely with Kerry and had did not seem to think that the military or vets were out of line in either their disdain or attacks against him.</p>
<p>I have long understood the things she was articulating this AM.  But I&#8217;ve also long ago realized that this isn&#8217;t something easily explained or easily accepted by those who don&#8217;t get it for themselves.  It&#8217;s and eye-roller thing for people who don&#8217;t understand.  The Dems clearly don&#8217;t understand.  They are going to keep attacking Bush on the ANG stuff and for most people with military experience, even just family of military, it will look like just more of the same family-bashing from Kerry.  Bush may have been a wayward brother or whatever, but he&#8217;s hasn&#8217;t dishonored or betrayed the family and the Traitorous Wretch just keeps on trashing away as if he can gain forgiveness and an invite to the next reunion if only he finds some way to destroy a family member.</p>
<p>He really should have dropped the whole Vietnam and ANG thing a long time ago.  What a Loon.</p>
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		<title>By: Goof¬Æ</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14755</link>
		<dc:creator>Goof¬Æ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14755</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Sandy P&lt;/b&gt;



Well, for the most of the denizens of this address, it will be an &quot;October Surprise&quot; if I turn out to be right.



These days I&#039;m often reminded of a fantasy novel I read many years ago.  A character who was confident regarding an outcome, when asked about it, responded &quot;I&#039;m in the cards.&quot;  Do you feel lucky?



&lt;b&gt;Terrye&lt;/b&gt;



Being &quot;undeserving&quot; has never been an impediment to getting elected.



49 days to go.




</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Sandy P</b></p>
<p>Well, for the most of the denizens of this address, it will be an &#8220;October Surprise&#8221; if I turn out to be right.</p>
<p>These days I&#8217;m often reminded of a fantasy novel I read many years ago.  A character who was confident regarding an outcome, when asked about it, responded &#8220;I&#8217;m in the cards.&#8221;  Do you feel lucky?</p>
<p><b>Terrye</b></p>
<p>Being &#8220;undeserving&#8221; has never been an impediment to getting elected.</p>
<p>49 days to go.</p>
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		<title>By: richard mcenroe</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14754</link>
		<dc:creator>richard mcenroe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14754</guid>
		<description>Catherine, DtP ó &quot;Shipwrecked with Hillary Clinton&quot;?



I can see the movie now:



&quot;Swept Away by A Republican Mandate from the Blue States of November...&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catherine, DtP ó &#8220;Shipwrecked with Hillary Clinton&#8221;?</p>
<p>I can see the movie now:</p>
<p>&#8220;Swept Away by A Republican Mandate from the Blue States of November&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sandy P</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14753</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14753</guid>
		<description>HEY!



There was the word ahem before conversion  - put the carrot thingys in and it went bye-bye!



---



Ahh, Goof, can you give us an inkling of what the October Surprise might be?





---



OK here&#039;s a question for all, W gets incapactiated/assassinated, Cheney or Kerry?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HEY!</p>
<p>There was the word ahem before conversion  &#8211; put the carrot thingys in and it went bye-bye!</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>Ahh, Goof, can you give us an inkling of what the October Surprise might be?</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>OK here&#8217;s a question for all, W gets incapactiated/assassinated, Cheney or Kerry?</p>
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		<title>By: Sandy P</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14752</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14752</guid>
		<description>Knucklehead-- should have added her secondary comment which was something similar to, &quot;It wasn&#039;t good for the Japanese but it ended WWII.&quot;--



Don&#039;t be too sure.  I&#039;ve been poking around the blogosphere since 2000, and I&#039;ve read more than once that while America is looking back on the bomb and we didn&#039;t need to do it, some Japanese AND some of their historians feel it saved their culture. Probably a very tough sell to the people, but a very honest look at that time in their history.



And my daddy did say that we did save the Germans from their worst instincts.





-----------------



The longish post about organizing the Jewish community in Michigan was written by  of Occam&#039;s Toothbrush.  I just posted that cos I thought Samuel, with his background of politics and  conversion could help Moe out.





</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Knucklehead&#8211; should have added her secondary comment which was something similar to, &#8220;It wasn&#8217;t good for the Japanese but it ended WWII.&#8221;&#8211;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be too sure.  I&#8217;ve been poking around the blogosphere since 2000, and I&#8217;ve read more than once that while America is looking back on the bomb and we didn&#8217;t need to do it, some Japanese AND some of their historians feel it saved their culture. Probably a very tough sell to the people, but a very honest look at that time in their history.</p>
<p>And my daddy did say that we did save the Germans from their worst instincts.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>The longish post about organizing the Jewish community in Michigan was written by  of Occam&#8217;s Toothbrush.  I just posted that cos I thought Samuel, with his background of politics and  conversion could help Moe out.</p>
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		<title>By: BigFire</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14751</link>
		<dc:creator>BigFire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14751</guid>
		<description>I just realized that a logical sequel to Michale Mann&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0140352/combined&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Insider&lt;/a&gt; can be made from this story.  As an inversion to the original, the propose title should be: Bloggers: The Outsiders.  Bill at INDCJournal already stated that he wants &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000848.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Rock playing him in the movie&lt;/a&gt;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just realized that a logical sequel to Michale Mann&#8217;s <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0140352/combined" rel="nofollow">The Insider</a> can be made from this story.  As an inversion to the original, the propose title should be: Bloggers: The Outsiders.  Bill at INDCJournal already stated that he wants <a href="http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000848.php" rel="nofollow">The Rock playing him in the movie</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: insatty</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14750</link>
		<dc:creator>insatty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 04:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14750</guid>
		<description>Bush&#039;s National Guard roommate and supervisor were on Hannity &amp; Colmes tonight totally discrediting CBS&#039;s story on the memos and on the merits.  No less a Clinton Kool-Aid drinker than Howard Fineman on Scarburough disclosing that even Eleanor Rodham Clift&#039;s Newsweek will report that the memos are forged and Rather should &#039;fess up.



I hate to be optimistic, but maybe this entire CBS fraud will backfire on the MSM and the Liberals.  A great man-bites-dog story to be sure.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush&#8217;s National Guard roommate and supervisor were on Hannity &amp; Colmes tonight totally discrediting CBS&#8217;s story on the memos and on the merits.  No less a Clinton Kool-Aid drinker than Howard Fineman on Scarburough disclosing that even Eleanor Rodham Clift&#8217;s Newsweek will report that the memos are forged and Rather should &#8216;fess up.</p>
<p>I hate to be optimistic, but maybe this entire CBS fraud will backfire on the MSM and the Liberals.  A great man-bites-dog story to be sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie (Colorado)</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14749</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie (Colorado)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14749</guid>
		<description>That next to last graf should be:



(1) The documents were typed recently using Microsoft Word, which produces documents that are

exact copies of the CBS documents.



I dunno.  Computers.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That next to last graf should be:</p>
<p>(1) The documents were typed recently using Microsoft Word, which produces documents that are</p>
<p>exact copies of the CBS documents.</p>
<p>I dunno.  Computers.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie (Colorado)</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14748</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie (Colorado)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14748</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/617fgqgo.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I love this&lt;/a&gt;:



To accept CBS&#039;s insistence the four documents from the early 1970s are authentic, you would have to believe the following:



(1) That the late Jerry Killian, Bush&#039;s commanding officer, typed the documents--though his wife says &quot;he wasn&#039;t a typist.&quot;



(2) That Killian kept the documents in his personal files--though his family says he didn&#039;t keep files.



(3) That the disputed documents reflect his true (negative) feelings about Bush and a contemporaneous official document he wrote lauding Bush did not.



(4) That he typed the documents on a technically advanced typewriter, an IBM Selectric Composer--though that model has been tested and failed to produce an exact copy of the documents.



(5) That this advanced typewriter, which would have cost $15,000 or so in today&#039;s dollars, was used by the Texas National Guard and that Killian had gained the significant expertise needed to operate it.



(6) That Killian was under pressure to whitewash Bush&#039;s record from a general who had retired 18 months earlier.



(7) That Killian&#039;s superior, Maj. Gen. Bobby Hodges, was right when, sight unseen, he supposedly said the documents were authentic, but wrong when, having actually viewed the documents, he declared them fraudulent.



Now if you can&#039;t accept all that, there&#039;s another side. To believe the documents are forgeries, you have to believe this:



(1) The documents were typed recently using Microsoft Word, which produces documents that are

Share anything with your friends and family

exact copies of the CBS documents.



(2) There&#039;s no number 2. All you have to believe is number 1.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/617fgqgo.asp" rel="nofollow">I love this</a>:</p>
<p>To accept CBS&#8217;s insistence the four documents from the early 1970s are authentic, you would have to believe the following:</p>
<p>(1) That the late Jerry Killian, Bush&#8217;s commanding officer, typed the documents&#8211;though his wife says &#8220;he wasn&#8217;t a typist.&#8221;</p>
<p>(2) That Killian kept the documents in his personal files&#8211;though his family says he didn&#8217;t keep files.</p>
<p>(3) That the disputed documents reflect his true (negative) feelings about Bush and a contemporaneous official document he wrote lauding Bush did not.</p>
<p>(4) That he typed the documents on a technically advanced typewriter, an IBM Selectric Composer&#8211;though that model has been tested and failed to produce an exact copy of the documents.</p>
<p>(5) That this advanced typewriter, which would have cost $15,000 or so in today&#8217;s dollars, was used by the Texas National Guard and that Killian had gained the significant expertise needed to operate it.</p>
<p>(6) That Killian was under pressure to whitewash Bush&#8217;s record from a general who had retired 18 months earlier.</p>
<p>(7) That Killian&#8217;s superior, Maj. Gen. Bobby Hodges, was right when, sight unseen, he supposedly said the documents were authentic, but wrong when, having actually viewed the documents, he declared them fraudulent.</p>
<p>Now if you can&#8217;t accept all that, there&#8217;s another side. To believe the documents are forgeries, you have to believe this:</p>
<p>(1) The documents were typed recently using Microsoft Word, which produces documents that are</p>
<p>Share anything with your friends and family</p>
<p>exact copies of the CBS documents.</p>
<p>(2) There&#8217;s no number 2. All you have to believe is number 1.</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14747</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2004 02:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/09/13/strong-stuff/#comment-14747</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Terrye&lt;/b&gt;



Amen!  But it doesn&#039;t matter because something of historic proportions needs to happen for Kerry to win.



Now when I say historic I mean something like Bush proven to have used cigars in unconventional ways, and then the public realizing that Democrats really cared about such things all along.



Or perhaps a terrorist attack, not just any attack, but one that comes with a memo saying... Bush knew and he lied!  Only this time the memo would be dated within the year 2004, but will have been typed on a 1971 IBM typewriter to prove its authenticity.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Terrye</b></p>
<p>Amen!  But it doesn&#8217;t matter because something of historic proportions needs to happen for Kerry to win.</p>
<p>Now when I say historic I mean something like Bush proven to have used cigars in unconventional ways, and then the public realizing that Democrats really cared about such things all along.</p>
<p>Or perhaps a terrorist attack, not just any attack, but one that comes with a memo saying&#8230; Bush knew and he lied!  Only this time the memo would be dated within the year 2004, but will have been typed on a 1971 IBM typewriter to prove its authenticity.</p>
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