38 Comments

1. jdwill:

Since the media will probably start asking tough questions about, and of, John Kerry only when the story has been handed to them by the blogosphere, I did some research today. I started out looking for Hanoi/Kerry connections, but, as I often do, got sidetracked. This time it was the ‘Dog Hunters’ or ‘Doghunters’.

Doghunter is a name taken from a James M. Shannon’s 1984 retort to John Kerry – “John, you know that dog won’t hunt.” It was an appropriate idiomatic reply to an ironic charge by Kerry – “You impugn the service of veterans in that war by saying they are somehow dopes or wrong for going.” – a charge Kerry should have made against himself. Thus, the sense of ‘Doghunter’ is a little goofy, but then so is the sense of John Kerry.

I found two good articles, in the past is prologue sense, that give off some possible connections to follow:

1. Echoes of a 1972 Loss Haunt a 2004 Campaign

[or less likely to go offline]

Echoes of a 1972 Loss Haunt a 2004 Campaign

But as 1971 wore on, Mr. Kerry, who had been raising most of the group’s money from celebrities like Jane Fonda and others, … …[1972] One of the books the Sun editorials attacked was “The New Soldier,” a long essay on the antiwar veterans’ movement by Mr. Kerry and his brother-in-law and Yale classmate David Thorne, with photographs by their friend George Butler.[ Kerry gets butt handed to him due to Vietnam]…[1984 Shannon attacks Kerry on Vietnam]…And so was born “the Doghunters,” a group of Vietnam veterans like Mr. Vallely who had known Mr. Kerry in the war or in his antiwar days or in his work with veterans. They helped turn the race around, and have been a part of every Kerry campaign since.

2. How Kerry Wins

[1996] … but David Warsh, then a columnist for the Boston Globe, wondered if Kerry’s actions in Vietnam had constituted a war crime. After all, the Vietnamese sniper whom Kerry turned his boat into shore to chase had been wounded. The Doghunters knew what to do. Kerry’s boat crew and retired Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, who had given Kerry his Silver Star, gathered at Boston’s Charlestown Navy Yard to defend Kerry and recall his bravery. Kerry’s crew members said the Vietnamese sniper had stopped and turned with a grenade launcher pointed at Kerry and his crew. Somebody had to do it, they said, and Kerry was in the lead….

Fast-forward to the fall of 2003. Kerry, the early front-runner, has fallen badly behind Howard Dean in Iowa and New Hampshire. He fires his campaign manager, reconnects with his Boston advisors, moves his campaign to Iowa, mortgages his Beacon Hill mansion for $6 million, and brings trusty Michael Whouley to Iowa to direct a strong organization built by John Norris. Once again, what turns Kerry and his campaign around emotionally are Vietnam veterans. Surrounded by the Doghunters at every stop, Kerry begins speaking more simply, more concretely, more humanely.

—-

Also see Joe Klein in 2002 THE LONG WAR OF JOHN KERRY which reads like a blinkered feasibility study for Kerry’s 2004 candidacy.

It has been a fixture in every Kerry campaign since. “After the 1984 election, the Doghunters had a black-tie dinner at my house, and the only thing we didn’t drink was the Aqua Velva,” John Marttila, a political consultant who has worked on every Kerry campaign, says. “They’ve had regular dinners ever since.” [it looks like Kerry has been team building for 30 years]

At least three things of interest jump at me:

1. Corroboration of a Jane Fonda connection

2. DogHunters to the rescue

3. Yet another sub-version of the Silver Star Tale

I pick door #2. The Doghunters (also google “Dog Hunters”). Who are these guys?

Some of the DH names I pick up in the above articles

Doug Clifford – Veterans for Peace, Chapter 9

John Marttila – not a vet, but interconnects a lot of people including Joe Biden’s(!) 1972 Senate run

John Hurley – VVAW Founder

Tom Vallely – no VVAW hits, but arrested in Lowell, Mass in 1972 with Kerry’s brother in what was probably a setup

Jim McDevitt – listed by dems2004 as Swift co-crew to Kerry, but NOT?

Chris Gregory – VVAW member

Paul Nace – Navy or Marine? This guy is hard get other facts on.

Chris Gregory – VVAW member

David Thorne – brother in law, VVAW, New Soldier co-author

Brian Willson – VVAW (found in 2nd tier search)

Doghunter?

As a former member of the 12 member Doghunter cadre, I believe that as long as JFK can Act Presidential, Make promises he rarely keeps and say that which the Public wants to hear he has more than just a good chance at winning….There were only 2 members of the Original Doghunters from Western Mass, Brian Willson and myselfEarl

Posted by: Earl Williams at April 22, 2004 09:35 PM

The same Earl that endorsed JFK here?

[Earl Williams may not be a real name - name of convict in movie Front Page] (link has email id),

but another Doghunter? writes to Kerry

It has been a long time since we have had contact. As you might remember, our very first meeting was at VVAW’s Dewey Canyon III, “A Limited Incursion Into the Country of Congress,” April 19-23, 1971, in Washington, D.C….

I’m sorry and terribly fearful for this state we are in. Your vote is terribly misguided, John. Now that veterans have reorganized throughout the nation as once again an important part of the growing movement, know that we shall work hard for your defeat, whether as a Presidential candidate or for another Senate term.

Sincerely,

S. Brian Willson, Arcata, CA

Apparently the skipper may have a potential mutiny here. Note that Doug Clifford writes here to challenge Willson but may provide many other branch topics related to Kerry in so doing.

So it will be of great interest to me to see if any media picks up this tantalizing thread:

1. Just who are the Doghunters?

2. Just how (see shadowing of Shannon) have they been so instrumental in Kerry’s campaigns?

3. Why their high level of association with VVAW and other such orgs?

4. How many [maybe two, Willson, ???] are now dissenters and against Kerry?

Sep 25, 2004 - 2:21 pm 2. David Thomson:

ìThey’ve got no interest in Iraq except insofar as they can use the issue to depress sufficient numbers of swing voters in Florida and Ohio.î

Mark Steyn is regretfully not engaging in hyperbole. This is literally the attitude of the MSM. Nothing else matters except the destruction of George W. Bush. Are they consciously aware of their own mindset? Not really. These elitist journalists delude themselves that they are dispassionately objective. A rational person supposedly should perceive President Bush as an unhinged cowboy threatening the peaceful stability of the world.

Sep 25, 2004 - 2:24 pm 3. Lapsed Randian:

I want Steyn and Christopher Hitchens to get married and have a child that graduates from Columbia’s J School.

Sep 25, 2004 - 3:30 pm 4. socalgal:

This particular theme in the media is one that I find truly incredible. This is the same media that knows, nay, even CLAIMS, that no one was “interested in” AIDS, homelessness, drugs, aparteid, road rage, flesh-eating bacteria, child abuse, child abduction, etc. etc. etc. until they took up the banner and decided to ‘educate’ us troglodytes about what was important in the world. So, if no one is “interested” in world events (an assertion that I wholeheartedly disagree with) isn’t it the big media’s JOB to MAKE us interested? Shouldn’t they be ‘framing’ international news so that it seems more relevant to the poor, ignorant proles?

No one is interested? Come on! What they MEAN is that a lot of the manufactured pet ‘issues’ that they push would seem like, well, the manufactured pet issues that they ARE if they gave the citizenry a daily dose of what REAL problems are like in the rest of the world. So, of course, no one in the MSM is interested in pushing international news – beyond the odd flood, or longest fingernails story. The more you pay attention to international news, the more scared you’re likely to be about the security of the world – and not just in a GWOT sense. That doesn’t encourage people to vote the Democrat ticket. The more you know, the more the left looks like Paris idiots. That doesn’t help the agenda of the media’s very liberal political view.

Sep 25, 2004 - 4:04 pm 5. Terrye:

What strikes me is the adversarial nature of the media in relation to the president. Some might say that is their job, but if that is so they could spread this attitude around a bit.

I am not a storm trooper or a brown shirt if I note the fact that Saddam and Zarqawi are the enemies, not George Bush.

I have read some of Ernie Pyle’s work in WW2 and I don’t ever remember the snotty, self righteous, accusatory gotcha tone that is always there in the press today.

That is why so many people don’t like them, and don’t trust them. And without trust what are they but preening blowhards trying to get their own point of view across rather than reporting the story?

Sep 25, 2004 - 4:46 pm 6. JacobR:

I would have asked Mr Allawi the following question:

“Mr Allawi, how many regiments of competent, loyal, combat ready Iraqi troops do you have under your orders ? How many such regiments are actually fighting the terrorist, in support of democracy ? ”

I feel that fielding some such regiments or divisions (financed and trained by the US, or by whatever other means) – would make his optimistic declarations more credible.

Sep 25, 2004 - 5:01 pm 7. heather:

I watched that ‘press conference’ on CSpan, and everything Steyn says is absolutely true: the questions asked by this ‘elite’ crowd were stupid, ignorant, and snotty.

However, thanks gracious for CSpan! And for the Internet! and for the Blogosphere!

I just sent a note of outrage to Associated Press (via a story at Powerline), and perhaps mine will be one of thousands. And within a couple of days, WalMart (Walmart!!) was forced to excise that dreadful book from its shelves.

These ‘journalists’ with their terrible educations and mediocre IQs have had a free ride for some 50 years – and it’s over now. We should break out the champagne!

Although, after reading David Warren’s piece on nukes and Israel and North Korea and Japan, and etc etc, (davidwarrenonline.com) perhaps we should drink the bottle quickly…

Sep 25, 2004 - 5:25 pm 8. Mike_Nargizian:

Roger,

Its Yom Kippur?

I know you’re an LA Jew but its Yom Kippur?

At least no blogging for one day of the year?

Btw, I saw the Iranian foreign minister on Charlie Rose the other night… What a pathetic show with Charlie Rose not challenging him ONCE not ONCE!! The guy says well we have differences of opinions that’s our democracy… and Rose just knods and begs for the correct terminonlogy on the Reformists (whom he says have been outflanked by the Conservatives) to which the foreign minister objects to his terminologies… LOL!!

Mike

Sep 25, 2004 - 5:29 pm 9. Carl in Atlanta:

Interlude on a lighter note..

WILD THING

by The Trogs

“Wild thing,

You make my heart sing

You make everything-

– groovey”….

Sorry Roger. Couldn’t help it. Every so often I read or hear the term “troglodyte”. It is one of my favorite words, though neither I nor anyone else seems to use it very much. It is so apt, especially these days. Whenever I hear or see it I think about that old band “The Trogs” and then I start racking my brain, “Now, what was that big song of theirs from way back when? 1965? 1966?”, and then I remember “Wild Thing” and begin hearing that strange, tuneless tune. And it stays in my head for days. Inexplicable, I know, and no doubt juvenille (like that great recent wind-surfing ad about Kerry), but there you are.

If you’re too young to remember “Wild Thing”, it was kind of a beatless, garage band, pre-grunge thing, with very,very simple,lyrics.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programing…

Sep 25, 2004 - 5:37 pm 10. PeterUK:

Carl,

There was a hilarious tape done at a Trogs session where Reg Presley the singer, in a wonderful hayseed accent, called the drummer a “f..king pranny”.MSM a bunch of f..king prannies.

Sep 25, 2004 - 5:54 pm 11. John Clayton:

I found this article by former Congressman Pete McCloskey, a Marine who was in the Korean War. He was very well respected by both parties when he was in Congress, and his opinion makes a lot of sense, whether you’re a Republican, Democrat, or independent. So when it comes to the mainstream media, the San Jose Mercury News is at least one source that is objective.

San Jose Mercury News

If you’re a true Republican, you’ll vote for Kerry

By Pete McCloskey

Although I’m a lifelong Republican, I will vote for John Kerry on Nov. 2. The choice seems simple under traditional principles of the Republican Party.

I first met John Kerry in the spring of 1971. Each of us was just back from Vietnam — he as a Navy officer and I as a member of Congress — and were appalled by what we had seen there. I found Kerry to be idealistic, courageous and, above all else, truthful to a fault. He demonstrated courage in Vietnam, but as Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. once said, the courage to speak against prevailing opinion in civil strife is often greater than that demanded on the battlefield.

During Kerry’s public career after his election to the Senate, he has clearly grown and matured. I believe he is incapable of deliberate deceit or dissembling. This alone represents a refreshing hope for a return of public faith in our government.

That Kerry has attained the solid support of former Secretary of Defense William Perry, with whom he has worked for years on issues of nuclear proliferation, confirms his ability to study, listen and reach sound judgments.

The primary issue in November will be who can best lead us in the bitter struggle against the Islamic fundamentalists who perpetrated 9/11 and are willing to die to kill Americans throughout the world. The Iraq occupation has caused thousands of new suicide bombers to join the jihad against us; with Kerry as president, the nation will properly refocus the battle away from Iraq and against the true enemy, Al-Qaida.

As Kerry has stated, we desperately need the cooperation of every country in the world, friend and enemy, where terrorist cells can germinate and operate.

We need to be more humble in asking for this assistance. A return to the “speak softly but carry a big stick” philosophy of Teddy Roosevelt should be far more effective than the bluster, bravado and “shock and awe” firepower of the neocon advisers who have commandeered White House foreign policy.

There are many other reasons to support John Kerry.

The incredible budget deficits projected to be $2.3 trillion or more in the next decade, disrespect for the United Nations, international law and Geneva Conventions, secrecy in government — all of these are positions Kerry would certainly reverse.

As a Catholic, Kerry is sure to maintain the constitutional separation between church and state, recognizing that while we are indeed a nation under God, everyone is free to choose his or her own faith in God.

He will also end the inordinate secrecy that has characterized this administration. It seems incredible that a matter as important as our national energy policy could be decided in secret by Vice President Dick Cheney’s energy task force — individuals whose very names have been withheld from the public.

Kerry’s record on environmental issues is superb, an area where the Bush administration has been a disaster.

Finally, there’s the matter of John Ashcroft and prospective judicial appointees who could undo Roe vs. Wade, a woman’s right of choice and many of the civil liberties we have earned over 225 years.

Each of the foregoing reasons for supporting Kerry is based on traditional Republican values of fiscal responsibility, limited governmental intrusion and the accountability of individuals.

In truth, John Kerry and John Edwards come far closer to the Republicanism of Teddy Roosevelt, Earl Warren, Barry Goldwater, George Bush the elder and, yes, even Richard Nixon, than does the present incumbent.

Ending secrecy and bringing truth and honesty back to the White House are reasons enough to elect Kerry and Edwards.

PETE MCCLOSKEY represented the San Francisco Peninsula in Congress from 1967 to 1983. He earned a Navy Cross, Silver Star and two Purple Hearts as a Marine rifle platoon leader during the Korean War. He wrote this column for the Mercury News.

Sep 25, 2004 - 6:09 pm 12. richard mcenroe:

Pete McCloskey, based on a very quick search:

Ran against Nixon for the Republican nomination. Got one delegate, dropped out of race before California primary.

Sole legislative achievement of note: Earth Day.

Longtime champion of Arabs in the US; filed a decade-long lawsuit against the ADL.

Continues to oppose US involvement with Israel, calling on US to refuse to show “solidarity with Sharon.”

Major proponent of the “chickenhawk” meme.

Sep 25, 2004 - 6:43 pm 13. chuck:

John Clayton,

The trolls always seem to come on here and post other peoples stuff. For G*ds sake, argument by citing authority is for juveniles. Do you have any thoughts of your own, or did you think the magic reference to military credentials would win over us militaristic dummies? I feel both dirtied and insulted. Kerry has medals. Kerry is a complete ass.

Sep 25, 2004 - 6:54 pm 14. richard mcenroe:

Chuck ó Memebots come with a “play” button, not a “think” button…

Sep 25, 2004 - 7:05 pm 15. jdwill:

Pete McCloskey may be a curmudgeon, but as I am a vet, and also I have spent the better part (all actually) of today reading 70’s Vietnam veteran history re Kerry, I will say that for a vet to go off on someone who is seen as besmirching other vets is not abnormal. The first instinct is that vets stick together against any outsiders. Quite a bit like the police tend to form an inner society. This does not make McCloskey right, and it does not make him a fool either.

A first hand story:

McCloskey vs CREEP???

Sep 25, 2004 - 7:10 pm 16. John Clayton:

The fact that Mr. McCloskey ran against Richard Nixon speaks well of him, considering that President Nixon was facing impeachment when he resigned in 1974. Since the race was in 1972 against an incumbent President, Mr. McCloskey must have been running to make a point, not win the nomination.

As for his medals or military service, I didn’t consider it to give him an aura of infallibility for any opinion he may express It’s just part of who he is. But being a Marine who fought in Korea in places like the Chosin Reservoir was an experience that would most likely make a veteran like Mr. McCloskey want to find every alternative to war before sending men into battle. I hope that any other veteran who has been in combat and saw buddies maimed or killed would feel the same way. If there are veterans reading this who weren’t in combat and didn’t have friends killed before their eyes and have to pick up their body parts for burial, then its possible they might not appreciate Mr. McCloskey’s point of view.

His comment about the budget mess was accurate, but he didn’t mention that the Democrats share the blame. The tax cut passed this week was not responsible legislating- it’s like sending your child to college with a credit card but not telling him that the money she spends will ever have to be paid back. If they were going to pass middle class tax relief, they should have told the country how they- we taxpayers- were going to pay for it.

Sep 25, 2004 - 7:31 pm 17. richard mcenroe:

JDwill ó “This does not make McCloskey right, and it does not make him a fool either.” ó Very true. But it also does not make him someone a conservative should uncritically accept as a source of unexamined information or opinion, either…

As a registered Democrat, I’m probably not carded to use the term, but McCloskey strikes me as the blueprint RINO (Republican in name only)…

… and now, to get this hijacked thread back on track, I’ll observed that this is a meme that’s started cropping up in the mainstream press lately. Just this week, Robert Scheer (?!) had a column in the LA Times in which he makes the exact same point ó that conservatives should vote for Kerry if they were true to their stated beliefs ó also without a single concrete example why.

Frankly, I find it kind of amusing that these people can’t even define their own candidate’s core beliefs but they’re willing to lay ours out for us…

Sep 25, 2004 - 7:34 pm 18. jdwill:

Richard,

Scheer? Isn’t he somewhere to the left of Noam Chomsky? I don’t waste my dwindling eyesight on extreme viewpoints. I shun thenation and commondreams equally with worldnetdaily and insightmag.

Anything he might have to say will almost certainly be dizzy-informatzia.

Amusing indeed.

Cheers

Sep 25, 2004 - 7:43 pm 19. John Lynch:

There have been many new posters showing up here since Roger’s place was publicized by the RNC convention and the Rathergate contretemps.

Welcome all.

On thread: The perception by the press on the public being trogs is long-standing. At the turn of the 19th century, yellow journalism pointed out the social ills of Tammany Hall (sp?,) the abusive City Hall and political machine of NYC. The exposed the abuses of Standard Oil. They created the concept of anti-trust.

All of this was done in the face of dummies in the public, not comprehending the realities of the time as expressed by the press.

The current day problem is the lack of diversity in press, legacy media, mainstream media, etc. Too many have gone activist in their thinking. Moreover, for too long have conservative values gone underground in any form of activism. Therefore, almost all activists are liberal. Almost all press, by training is activist. Almost all media are liberal activists.

Nothing specific against activists, but the ideas of small government, rights being a lack of incursion instead of entitlements, strong national defense, … these are not POV that the press propagate. These are views that over 50% of the public have resonance with. Result: the public (over 50%) disbelieve in the press.

Equal and opposite reaction: the press does not believe in the public.

Sep 25, 2004 - 8:03 pm 20. David Thomson:

ìSan Jose Mercury News

If you’re a true Republican, you’ll vote for Kerry

By Pete McCloskeyî

Did I hear someone mention the name of Pete McCloskey? And is he really supporting John Kerry? Are they on the same page? Well, isnít that interesting? How many people are aware that McCloskey is strongly anti-Israel? All one needs to do is Google McCloskeyís name and you will readily find links like this one:

http://www.mediamonitors.net/ramzy8.html

McCloskey is one step away from being an adamant anti-Semite. Is the same true for Senator Kerry?

Sep 25, 2004 - 8:10 pm 21. Rick Ballard:

Richard,

I’ll loan you my card and you can broadcast the RINO info to your hearts content.

Looks like we’re gonna have a real surfeit of Mikey’s memebots for a bit. Mikey’s started spewing about the polls being off in Ohio (where the moveon morons from the U at Columbus have made their biggest registration drive). What we’ve seen over the past few days is the beginning of the last desperate push before ignominous defeat. I’ll be gone for a few days but when I return I expect to skim threads and find a really large influx of thread thieves, memebots and garden trolls. I also expect a lot of the crap that the McCloskey suporter is spewing. They’re gonna drag out every dingdong with a medal and then do the “honored hero” bit.

There are many heros worthy of being honored and there are a few that are just as honorable as Cut’n Run Kerry.

I am sure that everyone will remember to point out to the memebots, thread thieves and trolls that John Kerry is a seditious liar who’s counting on the shedding of innocent Iraqi and American blood in order to advance his ambition.

Sep 25, 2004 - 8:29 pm 22. Terrye:

I do think that Kerry has gotten some good press. It seems to me that have gone easy on him.

It will be interesting to see how they handle him at the debates. I wonder if he will get a bunch of soft ball questions.

Debates make me nervous. All your guy has to do is get a headache and the whole thing can go south. It is like taking tests, some people do better at these tehings than other people. Too much pressure for not enough information.

If the press really did its job instead of spending all tis time digging up gossip and bad news maybe the debates would not be such a big deal.

BTW, I knew a Marine that was one of the Chosen Frozen from Korea. He was Republican, a Methodist minister. He became a minister because he survived, unlike most of his comrades who never came back. I ask him if he had made some promises in that place and he said yes , he had. He was keeping one of them when he became a minister.

Sep 25, 2004 - 8:30 pm 23. ambisinistral:

Regarding the debates. Softball of not (as if they’ll ask tough questions), I think both candidates get the same question.

Worse will be the spin they put on the victor. I read somewhere the other day that there was somewhat of a difference between voters who had heard the debate, as opposed the those that read about the debates last election. They had figures showing those who saw the debates had a somewhat more favorable opinion about Gore than those that read about them.

If so, and if the media is as biased as we think, expect the talkiong heads to have absorbed that lesson and downgrade Bush’s performance.

Well, unless Kerry completely screws up, which is more than a possibility with his wandering, er… I mean nuanced speaking style.

Sep 25, 2004 - 8:42 pm 24. chuck:

What we’ve seen over the past few days is the beginning of the last desperate push before ignominous defeat.

Well, let’s not get cocky. But an image of Michael Moore popped into my head. He was wore a dress and turned his tear stained face to the camera:

Home. I’ll go home, and I’ll think of some way to get them back! After all, tomorrow is another day!

Sep 25, 2004 - 9:38 pm 25. exguru:

–”…incapable of deliberate deceit or dissembling…” – McCloskey on Kerry

Pete McCloskey, indeed a lifelong Republican, Bay Area variety, must be looking forward to all those Republican judges Kerry will appoint… As for Kerry’s alleged lack of deceit and dissembling, McCloskey should curl up with “Unfit for Command” some night soon. And, since he probably knows former Navy Secretary John Lehman, he should check with him about his forged signature on Kerry’s award citation. Also about the improper V for valor.

Sep 25, 2004 - 11:25 pm 26. Syl:

jdwill

Interesting stuff you got there on Doghunters! Thanks for the links and all.

————

As for Pete McCloskey, this says it all:

—the nation will properly refocus the battle away from Iraq and against the true enemy, Al-Qaida—

Al Qaeda is only the symptom of the disease the true enemy is infected with. Hunting down Al Qaeda members and leadership (which we have been doing all along) is only an aspirin, a bandaid, an excision of obvious malignant cells that doesn’t rid the world of the cancer or the blood vessels that feed it.

And this ties in with Roger’s theme. The MSM assumption that the American people don’t care for anything beyond our shores may or may not have been valid before 9/11. It certainly is not valid now. And their refusal to document and inform us of the worldwide Islamist movement is negligence of the highest order.

It leads directly to the misperception that if we just concentrate on Al Qaeda, attrition will make the problem go away. That without Iraq, new terrorists would never emerge from the ether.

When in truth all Iraq has done is focus their rage, attention, and resources on a specific region.

Sep 26, 2004 - 12:44 am 27. klrfz1:

I didn’t get much out of either the doghunter or the McCloskey posts. Wasn’t it interesting that the appended McCloskey bio ended in 1983?

On the other hand when was the last time you read anyone give positive reasons to vote for John Kerry? Even mendacious ones? I read the DU and Atrios blogs occasionally and there is rarely anything positive posted about anything, ever.

Ann Coulter doesn’t have a lot of positive columns, either, but at least she is funny.

MSM? Turn them off. They can’t even get the weather report right.

The Trogs? Best band EVER!

Sep 26, 2004 - 5:42 am 28. Cap'n Billy:

Re: John Clayton at 06:09 PM Sept. 25

Roger can speak for himself, but I don’t believe he would appreciate his bandwidth being used up by some troll copying & pasting a long newspaper op-ed when he could simply post a link, the merits or lack thereof of the piece notwithstanding.

Sep 26, 2004 - 6:26 am 29. Terrye:

Syl:

This whole Iraq is a diversion thing is silly. If that is true all those Dems would not have voted for the war in the first place and unless Kerry has Osama hid under his bed he can’t promise to deliver.

Maybe John Kerry does not realize it but a nation that has bases all over the world can chew gum and walk at the same damn time. He has a fit over pulling some men off the DMZ after a half century but Iraq, a country that we have been flying sorties over for more than a decade is a distraction.

In 1998 Clinton made a point of calling for regime change in one country: Iraq, not Afghanistan. So if we are distracted it is a distraction and a problem that Bush inherited from Clinton and the Dems.

Sep 26, 2004 - 6:28 am 30. Syl:

Terrye

It is true that Iraq is not a diversion. It is also true that some resources are finite…like translators and Arabic speakers. However spreading that resource a little thin is no reason to have held off on Iraq.

In fact, if it’s Arab speakers we need, guess what Iraq has given us. ))))))))

Look at the pool of Arab allies we now have.

If wmd and Saddam weren’t enough reason to do Iraq, this is!

CIA: We don’t have enough Arab speakers and allies!

Bush: I’ve got a great idea!

Sep 26, 2004 - 7:18 am 31. shel:

A little OT:

Wow, Terrye, your comment about the Marine minister sounds just like my dad. He was one of the Chosun Few in Korea, made the same promises, came back (badly wounded) and became a Methodist minister!! And still is, at 74; this morning they are dedicating the stained glass windows at his little church. The only difference is that, although he has voted Republican, in his life he has leaned mostly Democrat. He’s on the fence about this election, I think because he watched only mainstream news and not even Fox. My brother and I are working on him.

suellen

Sep 26, 2004 - 9:34 am 32. Charlie (Colorado):

JacobR asks:

“Mr Allawi, how many regiments of competent, loyal, combat ready Iraqi troops do you have under your orders ? How many such regiments are actually fighting the terrorist, in support of democracy?”

… and Allawi would answer:

“The Iraqi government now commands almost 50,000 armed and combat- ready Iraqis.

By January it will be some 145,000. And by the end of next year, some 250,000 Iraqis.”

… which JacobR would know if he read the transcript of Allawi’s speech but would have a helluva time finding out from the troglodytes.

Sep 26, 2004 - 9:51 am 33. Charlie (Colorado):

Hey, Rick Ballard — Are you in Columbus OH? I’m flying there on business tonight and will be there until Wednesday. Drop me a note — my open email address is on my TypeKey profile.

Sep 26, 2004 - 10:19 am 34. Charlie (Colorado):

But an image of Michael Moore popped into my head. He was wore a dress and turned his tear stained face to the camera:

Wow. That’s an image I could have done without.

Sep 26, 2004 - 11:32 am 35. richard mcenroe:

An interesting piece of weaselwording on McCloskey’s part: Kerry “Öincapable of deliberate deceit or dissemblingÖ” Does that mean McCloskey thinks Kerry can’t tell the difference between truth and fantasy anymore, as when he falsely claimed this week that he attended the ‘91 Iraq ceasefire signing?

Sep 26, 2004 - 1:09 pm 36. richard mcenroe:

An interesting piece of weaselwording on McCloskey’s part: Kerry “Öincapable of deliberate deceit or dissemblingÖ” Does that mean McCloskey thinks Kerry can’t tell the difference between truth and fantasy anymore, as when he falsely claimed this week that he attended the ‘91 Iraq ceasefire signing?

Sep 26, 2004 - 1:10 pm 37. Terrye:

suellen:

The man I was referring to passed away recently. He could survive Korea, but not Parkinsons.

He was a very good man and I am sure your dad is also.

Sep 26, 2004 - 4:29 pm 38. Roberts:

I lived in California in the period that McClosky represented the Bay Area and I would emphatically state that McClosky was not respected in the GOP. McClosky was – as seems to be a tradition among representatives from the Bay Area – a nut.

Sep 26, 2004 - 8:41 pm

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