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	<title>Comments on: The Electoral College Perplex</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: jj</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24158</link>
		<dc:creator>jj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24158</guid>
		<description>Here are some more links to FrankWarner posts on the EC:





http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/08/new_york_times_.html



http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/04/should_us_senat.html



http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2003/12/nader_an_indepe.html



http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/08/on_the_electora.html




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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some more links to FrankWarner posts on the EC:</p>
<p><a href="http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/08/new_york_times_.html" rel="nofollow">http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/08/new_york_times_.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/04/should_us_senat.html" rel="nofollow">http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/04/should_us_senat.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2003/12/nader_an_indepe.html" rel="nofollow">http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2003/12/nader_an_indepe.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/08/on_the_electora.html" rel="nofollow">http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2004/08/on_the_electora.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tom Grey</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24157</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Grey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24157</guid>
		<description>The biggest election influence was racist Wallace in 68, making Nixon win -- and making the Vietnam War a &quot;republican&quot; war.



Also got racist white Southern Dems to vote for somebody NOT a Dem -- so it was easier for them to go with Reagan; or back to Clinton Dem in 92.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest election influence was racist Wallace in 68, making Nixon win &#8212; and making the Vietnam War a &#8220;republican&#8221; war.</p>
<p>Also got racist white Southern Dems to vote for somebody NOT a Dem &#8212; so it was easier for them to go with Reagan; or back to Clinton Dem in 92.</p>
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		<title>By: Knucklehead</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24156</link>
		<dc:creator>Knucklehead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24156</guid>
		<description>For those interested, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fec.gov/pdf/eleccoll.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; is a reasonable, brief history of the EC.  JMO, but while the precise issues that brought it into being and influenced its evolution over the years have changed, the basic premise is still sound.



Oh, and here&#039;s the &lt;a href=&quot;http://people.howstuffworks.com/electoral-college.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How Stuff Works&lt;/a&gt; explanation of the EC.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those interested, <a href="http://www.fec.gov/pdf/eleccoll.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a> is a reasonable, brief history of the EC.  JMO, but while the precise issues that brought it into being and influenced its evolution over the years have changed, the basic premise is still sound.</p>
<p>Oh, and here&#8217;s the <a href="http://people.howstuffworks.com/electoral-college.htm" rel="nofollow">How Stuff Works</a> explanation of the EC.</p>
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		<title>By: Former CNN Watcher</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24155</link>
		<dc:creator>Former CNN Watcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24155</guid>
		<description>The insight Sandy P referes to may be found here at http://www.discover.com/web-exclusives/math-against-tyranny/



RTWT



&quot;Math Against Tyranny&quot;

By Will Hively  September 30, 2004

&quot;When you cast your vote this month, you&#039;re not directly electing the president, you&#039;re electing members of the electoral college.  They elect the president.  An archaic, unnecessary system?  Mathematics shows, says one concerned American, that by giving your vote to another, you&#039;re ensuring the future of our democracy.&quot;



This mathematician shows that the electoral college actually makes your vote MORE powerful rather than less because you have more possibility to influence the election.



An the famous metaphor is there:

&quot;In baseball&#039;s World Series, for example, the team that scores the most runs overall is like a  candidate who gets the most votes. But to become champion, that team must win the most games.

In 1960, during a World Series as nail-bitingly close as that year&#039;s presidential battle between Kennedy and Nixon, the New York Yankees,

with the awesome slugging combination of Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, and Bill &quot;Moose&quot; Skowron, scored more than twice as many total runs as the

Pittsburgh Pirates, 55 to 27. Yet the Yankees lost the series, four games to three. Even Natapoff, who grew up in the shadow of Yankee Stadium, conceded that Pittsburgh deserved to win. &quot;Nobody walked away saying it was unfair,&quot; he says.&quot;



&quot;Why worry how easily one vote can turn an election, so long as each voter has equal power? One person, one vote--that&#039;s all the math anyone

needs to know in a simple, direct election. Natapoff agrees that voters should have equal power. &quot;The idea,&quot; he says, &quot;is to give every voter the largest equal share of national voting power possible.&quot; Here&#039;s a classic example of equal voting power: under a tyranny, everyone&#039;s power

is equal to zero. Clearly, equality alone is not enough. In a democracy, individuals become less vulnerable to tyranny as their voting power

increases...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The insight Sandy P referes to may be found here at <a href="http://www.discover.com/web-exclusives/math-against-tyranny/" rel="nofollow">http://www.discover.com/web-exclusives/math-against-tyranny/</a></p>
<p>RTWT</p>
<p>&#8220;Math Against Tyranny&#8221;</p>
<p>By Will Hively  September 30, 2004</p>
<p>&#8220;When you cast your vote this month, you&#8217;re not directly electing the president, you&#8217;re electing members of the electoral college.  They elect the president.  An archaic, unnecessary system?  Mathematics shows, says one concerned American, that by giving your vote to another, you&#8217;re ensuring the future of our democracy.&#8221;</p>
<p>This mathematician shows that the electoral college actually makes your vote MORE powerful rather than less because you have more possibility to influence the election.</p>
<p>An the famous metaphor is there:</p>
<p>&#8220;In baseball&#8217;s World Series, for example, the team that scores the most runs overall is like a  candidate who gets the most votes. But to become champion, that team must win the most games.</p>
<p>In 1960, during a World Series as nail-bitingly close as that year&#8217;s presidential battle between Kennedy and Nixon, the New York Yankees,</p>
<p>with the awesome slugging combination of Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, and Bill &#8220;Moose&#8221; Skowron, scored more than twice as many total runs as the</p>
<p>Pittsburgh Pirates, 55 to 27. Yet the Yankees lost the series, four games to three. Even Natapoff, who grew up in the shadow of Yankee Stadium, conceded that Pittsburgh deserved to win. &#8220;Nobody walked away saying it was unfair,&#8221; he says.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Why worry how easily one vote can turn an election, so long as each voter has equal power? One person, one vote&#8211;that&#8217;s all the math anyone</p>
<p>needs to know in a simple, direct election. Natapoff agrees that voters should have equal power. &#8220;The idea,&#8221; he says, &#8220;is to give every voter the largest equal share of national voting power possible.&#8221; Here&#8217;s a classic example of equal voting power: under a tyranny, everyone&#8217;s power</p>
<p>is equal to zero. Clearly, equality alone is not enough. In a democracy, individuals become less vulnerable to tyranny as their voting power</p>
<p>increases&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: WichitaBoy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24154</link>
		<dc:creator>WichitaBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24154</guid>
		<description>I agree that Colorado&#039;s splitting its EC votes is bad for Colorado. It is good for the Democrats, though, who expect to be outvoted.



The underlying problem is that Colorado is filling up with people who do not identify themselves as Coloradoans. They have come here from elsewhere, didn&#039;t grow up here, don&#039;t vacation here, didn&#039;t go to school here, don&#039;t particularly have friends, family, or ties here. Having their vote swamped by the native vote feels unfair to them so they want to change the rules and break their vote out separately.



In Minnesota, by contrast, there is a tremendous amount of state pride; people in Minnesota have often lived there for generations, their families and friends are all there, and they are justifiably proud of what they are producing in their state. It makes sense to them to vote as a block because they think of themselves in those terms.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Colorado&#8217;s splitting its EC votes is bad for Colorado. It is good for the Democrats, though, who expect to be outvoted.</p>
<p>The underlying problem is that Colorado is filling up with people who do not identify themselves as Coloradoans. They have come here from elsewhere, didn&#8217;t grow up here, don&#8217;t vacation here, didn&#8217;t go to school here, don&#8217;t particularly have friends, family, or ties here. Having their vote swamped by the native vote feels unfair to them so they want to change the rules and break their vote out separately.</p>
<p>In Minnesota, by contrast, there is a tremendous amount of state pride; people in Minnesota have often lived there for generations, their families and friends are all there, and they are justifiably proud of what they are producing in their state. It makes sense to them to vote as a block because they think of themselves in those terms.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandy P</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24153</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24153</guid>
		<description>During the 2000 vote count, a professor wrote an article explaining how the EC works.  It is a perfect metaphor.



The EC is like the World Series.



Can you win the WS even if you don&#039;t score the most runs?



Yes you can.



It happened, the team which scored the most runs didn&#039;t win the most games.  They scored a tremendous amount of runs in the 3 games they won, but they lost the 4.



Would you want to change how the WS determines the winner?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During the 2000 vote count, a professor wrote an article explaining how the EC works.  It is a perfect metaphor.</p>
<p>The EC is like the World Series.</p>
<p>Can you win the WS even if you don&#8217;t score the most runs?</p>
<p>Yes you can.</p>
<p>It happened, the team which scored the most runs didn&#8217;t win the most games.  They scored a tremendous amount of runs in the 3 games they won, but they lost the 4.</p>
<p>Would you want to change how the WS determines the winner?</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Poinsett</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24152</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Poinsett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24152</guid>
		<description>Seems to me that what Colorado is trying to do is to subvert the Electoral College by apportioning the popular vote. It is really short sighted. Because of the EC, Colorado is in play this year, without it she is a bystander.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that what Colorado is trying to do is to subvert the Electoral College by apportioning the popular vote. It is really short sighted. Because of the EC, Colorado is in play this year, without it she is a bystander.</p>
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		<title>By: Terrye</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24151</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24151</guid>
		<description>In the early days of our country there was only the electoral college. We are a republic and as such are governed by representatives. It was the representatives in the electoral college and ultimately the Senate that chose the president and vice president. There was not a popular vote for president, nor was there a &quot;ticket&quot;. The vice president was the number two winner.



So the popular vote came in the 18th century but the electoral college remained to give all states a say. Even today the large urban areas with the large numbers of electoral votes get the most attention but without the electoral college even more of the country would go without representation.



There is a difference between mob rule and representative democracy.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the early days of our country there was only the electoral college. We are a republic and as such are governed by representatives. It was the representatives in the electoral college and ultimately the Senate that chose the president and vice president. There was not a popular vote for president, nor was there a &#8220;ticket&#8221;. The vice president was the number two winner.</p>
<p>So the popular vote came in the 18th century but the electoral college remained to give all states a say. Even today the large urban areas with the large numbers of electoral votes get the most attention but without the electoral college even more of the country would go without representation.</p>
<p>There is a difference between mob rule and representative democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: raf</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24150</link>
		<dc:creator>raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24150</guid>
		<description>To better understand how the &quot;small&quot; states felt at the founding, consider how you would like to be bound by United Nations votes on a proportional representation basis.  If China and India were able to cast votes for all their citizens and make them binding, the UN would never have formed.  If not for the disproportionate influence given to the smaller states under the constitution, the US would not have formed.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To better understand how the &#8220;small&#8221; states felt at the founding, consider how you would like to be bound by United Nations votes on a proportional representation basis.  If China and India were able to cast votes for all their citizens and make them binding, the UN would never have formed.  If not for the disproportionate influence given to the smaller states under the constitution, the US would not have formed.</p>
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		<title>By: jj</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24149</link>
		<dc:creator>jj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/10/27/the-electoral-college-perplex/#comment-24149</guid>
		<description>It is not the EC per se that has the moderating impact, but rather the winner-takes-all rule.  It was originally implemented by the separate states in order to maximize their own impact.  Colorado will be shooting itself in the foot by splitting its vote.





As a candidate looks at Colorado, the potential benefit from visiting Colorado and promoting Colorado-friendly policies is large.  Colorado&#039;s status as a swing state makes it very attractive to both candidates.  If it were to drop the winner-takes-all rule, no one would care about the potential gain or loss of a single EC vote.



If you wanted to maximize your own influence you should establish a group of like-minded centrists who sign a pact to vote as a bloc.  This kind of voterís union would multiply the impact of your vote, especially if it were a swing group with unpredictable decisions.  Local politicians would beat a path to your door.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not the EC per se that has the moderating impact, but rather the winner-takes-all rule.  It was originally implemented by the separate states in order to maximize their own impact.  Colorado will be shooting itself in the foot by splitting its vote.</p>
<p>As a candidate looks at Colorado, the potential benefit from visiting Colorado and promoting Colorado-friendly policies is large.  Colorado&#8217;s status as a swing state makes it very attractive to both candidates.  If it were to drop the winner-takes-all rule, no one would care about the potential gain or loss of a single EC vote.</p>
<p>If you wanted to maximize your own influence you should establish a group of like-minded centrists who sign a pact to vote as a bloc.  This kind of voterís union would multiply the impact of your vote, especially if it were a swing group with unpredictable decisions.  Local politicians would beat a path to your door.</p>
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