57 Comments

1. Rick Ballard:

A bit OT –

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!’

He chortled in his joy.

The DNC has made their pick and

McCauliff’s still their boy.

Just heard on Fox. Way to go Terry, hope you’re smart enough to keep Shrum at your side. Hillary in ‘08!!

Nov 15, 2004 - 4:05 pm 2. Michael B:

Glad to hear it. She’s earned it and seems to have both the backbone and the diplomatic talent for the job ahead of his. Helpfully she can do some housecleaning at State. Too, this will raise her public profile considerably and help to make it clear whether or not she’d eventually be interested in the 2008 race or not.

Congrats to Rice.

Nov 15, 2004 - 4:06 pm 3. Kevin P:

Roger:

President Bush is signaling that he is taking control of his cabinent and that if State wants to try to set up a seperate foreign policy in opposition it will have the number one lady to deal with. Granted Condi will have entrenched life long bureucrats to deal with and will no doubt spend a lot of her time pulling the knives out of her back but I think she will be up to it. She will have to deal with an attack by leaks strategy but if she reacts strongly to the first attacks she might prevail. I am glad that President Bush acted quickly before the MSM could decide who he has to pick to satisfy their needs. The confirmation battle should be interesting.

Nov 15, 2004 - 4:08 pm 4. Michael B:

“… ahead of us. Hopefully …” sheesh

Nov 15, 2004 - 4:08 pm 5. wxjames:

Condi will do fine.

Say, since the pres’ party runs the show, and the State Dept. seem to have their own agenda, wouldn’t a budget cut be in order ? Say about 30%, or do I play too rough ?

Nov 15, 2004 - 4:17 pm 6. WichitaBoy:

I’m just too autistic to understand much of what occurs in politics. Hillary is everybody’s canonical choice of Presidential candidate for the Democrats. Apparently if you have enough social IQ it’s just obvious why, but I’m still scratching my knucklehead. The Presidency is one of the most important administrative posts in the world. Remind me again of what Hillary’s experience as an administrator or executive of any sort of organization consists of.

Nov 15, 2004 - 4:46 pm 7. richard mcenroe:

Bad news for Hillary. Now she’s actually got to establish a real record of her own.

And I say we take up a collection to send Condi a set of Mason jars so she can keep her collection of world leaders’ personals on the sideboard to impress visitors…and maybe a little magnifying glass for Chirac’s…

Nov 15, 2004 - 4:50 pm 8. Rick Ballard:

WB,

Shh!! Accomplishment is a mere bagatelle in the face of unstinting advocacy. Just think where we might be today had she been successful in her attempt to nationalize the medical system? Why she was able to generate over a 1,000 pages of proposed policy directives and regulations without once resorting to the nastiness of public hearing and debate. Is there anything which she could not accomplish by those “stroke of the pen, law of the land” Executive Orders? Where’s your faith, man? She’s always been Saul Alinsky’s girl and she always will be. Let’s all pray that she keeps Terry McAuliffe and Bob Schrum at her side as she leads her party to the same glorious victories that were accomplished in ‘94 after her triumphant management of the health care task force!!

Go for it Hillary, we know you want it more than oxygen and we all want to watch you try and get it. Why just standing by Bill in his hour of need should be enough to ensure every woman’s vote. It’s in the bag, you’ve got it nailed, just nod your head and the world is yours.

Nov 15, 2004 - 5:05 pm 9. Richard Nieporent:

Remind me again of what Hillary’s experience as an administrator or executive of any sort of organization consists of.

The Rose law firm’s billing records.

Nov 15, 2004 - 5:13 pm 10. Ed Poinsett:

Sorry, but no way Condi Rice is the nominee in 2008. She has never run for any elective office that I’ve heard of. POTUS is not a place for beginners. Now Guliani/Rice is a dream ticket, they will knock off Hillary and it will give Condi the campaign experience to go for it in 2016. We might have Republican presidents for the first 24 years of this century!

Nov 15, 2004 - 5:19 pm 11. mudmarine:

Ed Poinsett

Well Ed, you may have a point… but, I think four years at NSC and four years at state makes Condi a bit more than a beginner. I suspect that those are the most difficult areas for any President coming in from a governorship or congress. Her policies on the domestic side…who knows. I’m willing to forgo that as a priority for the forseeable future…we have to win this war…we have to attempt to bring freedom and a version of democracy to more of the world. She’ll get my vote… especially if the other choice is HRC.

Nov 15, 2004 - 5:31 pm 12. jedrury:

Roger probably threw a reference to HRC only to see how rabid the readership is this late in the day. The lions are very hungry and “O by the way hate her too.”

John Harris, a long time Clinton media ass kisser, writes another fawning piece in the

Post today about the opening of the Bubba library in Little Rock. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49992-2004Nov14.html

“You all come !!!” Now which of you is booking a flight on JetBubba as we communicate ?

Come on fess up !

But note - in the interests of arguable journalistic integrity - the chinks in the column’s armor here; universal red state disdain for Hillary and Bill.

Buckle on your ear muffs because by Thursday the Today Show will be treating this opening as akin “the Second Coming” of Christ. Unfortunately, pert little Katie Couric in all her telegenic fervor forgets the most memorable line from Yeats that ” . . . anarchy is loosed upon the world.” And that is precisely what we will get with the return of THEM !

Nov 15, 2004 - 5:40 pm 13. chuck:

OT,

Someone seems to be trying to send spoofed mail from my address to people on this blog. In particular, I get non-deliverable mail, that I didn’t send, addressed to kncklhead@netscape.net, which seems pretty close to the address kncklhead5@netscape.net of Knucklehead’s typekey registration. Anyone else have this problem?

Nov 15, 2004 - 5:48 pm 14. jerry:

Hillary versus Condi? No way. HRC is just a place holder for the 2008 Democratic nominee. I have a sense that her time has passed. Rice is unlikely to run for the Presidency next time either. If she runs for anything it will be the Senate and that is where political higher ambitions go to die. The real contenders for the Presidency will not emerge until after the 2006 election. Each party’s nominee will be determined by how the the GWOT unfolds in the next four years.

Nov 15, 2004 - 5:50 pm 15. Mark Poling:

Mudmarine, I agree that NSC and State are all the prep necessary for the Presidency. Rice and Bush apparently have a good working relationship, and she’s had to have picked up a thing or three about dealing with the Hill.

And seriously, a Rice candidacy would just about drive a nail in the old Democratic identity politics game. Hard to campaign against greedy white men when the greedy white man is a rags-to-gown honest-to-god intellectual black woman of ambiguous sexuality.

If God is a fan of irony, Condi v. Hillary is a sure bet.

Nov 15, 2004 - 5:58 pm 16. Rick Ballard:

Ms. Rice won’t top the ticket but I sure wouldn’t bet against her being in the VP slot. She has not incurred the political debts necessary to make a run at the top. I believe that the ‘08 primary is going to be one of the bloodiest in history for both parties. Cheney’s health makes him very doubtful, so we are very likely to have no incumbents (or past incumbents) in the race. Watch who starts visiting New Hampshire and Iowa begining in January. On the Dem side I’m rooting for Hillary, Kerry or Gore. With Shrum as advisor, of course.

Nov 15, 2004 - 6:01 pm 17. Doug:

Call me nuts but I prefer to speculate about what Rice’s appointment will do for the next four years and the war on terror and not think about the NEXT election. If we have learned anything, its that 4 years can be a lifetime. As for today’s events, I think this is win win. Powell has been a terrible secretary of state. He has failed in his primary mission, sell the president’s foreign policy to the nations of the world. He has not even sold it to the State Department and that’s the problem. Because, like the CIA, Foggy Bottom is a monster with loyalty to itself. Even with a great S of S it will be difficult to keep the Dept. in line. Powell is the master of the leak and the long knife. He is not a Bush man and his primary loyalty was to his own self. Condi Rice is completely and totally loyal to President Bush. She will do all she can to ensure State enacts the president’s policies. She will have an eye out for leakers and smearers. WHen you start to see a slew of resignations you will know she’s doing her job. The beuracrats are probably dreading her. She also has training in the nuances of diplomacy. She is a phd in this area. Powell, believe it or not, had no experience in diplomacy and made many many blunders. Finally, as good an S of S as I think she will make, she was a terrible National Security Advisor. She was not cut out for this job which entailed navigating the various interests and options and give the president cogent advice. Powell and Rumsfeld walked all over her. It is fortunate Cheney was around as a back up of sorts. I have heard Paul Wolfowitz might be up for NSA, this would be an EXCELLENT choice as this is just where his talents can be put to best use. I do not think he would be a good replacement for Rumsfeld as his talents do not lie in managing large beauracracies. All in all a good and exciting day.

Nov 15, 2004 - 6:01 pm 18. mudmarine:

Mark Poling

“If God is a fan of irony, Condi v. Hillary is a sure bet.”

Well, ‘jerry’ above may also have some good points, after all, four years is a long time from now. But I tell you what, just from a personal viewpoint, I would love to see the CR vs. HRC race, talk about dissonance (sp) on the left…woo hoo.

Nov 15, 2004 - 6:09 pm 19. jerry:

I don’t think Wolfewitz is going to the NSC. His position as DEPSECDEF is more powerful. I think it would be a step down. My sense is that the DoD team will remain intact.

Nov 15, 2004 - 6:14 pm 20. klrfz1:

The non-deliverable mail is probably sent by a worm trying to reproduce. As a webmaster I see a lot of them. Best to delete before reading.

Ah, Hillary! Whenever her possible presidential aspirations are discussed I have to wonder who will be her Perot. Bill Clinton would never have become president without Perot’s constant attacks on Bush and the votes he caused to stay home. In the election just concluded, a populist 3rd party candidate like Perot could easily have swung the election to Kerry. Hillary would certainly run a better campaign than John Kerry. But she will still need an edge. It worked before. Who could she get?

Nov 15, 2004 - 6:17 pm 21. Rick Ballard:

Doug,

Sec. Powell could have walked across the East River and he would not have convinced the purchased, entrenched EUnuch and UN Saddamist’s of the justness of the US cause. Any person who makes it to the JCS has had training and experience in the arts of diplomacy and politics that is historically unparalleled.

Nov 15, 2004 - 6:24 pm 22. richard mcenroe:

Mark Poling, mudmarine ó Don’t forget, to the “inclusive” “progressives” of the left people like Powell and Rice are not “real” African-Americans, anymore than Miguel Estrada was a “real” Hispanic, according to the Democrats during his confirmation hearing. At best, they are mocked as “house slaves” as Harry Belafonte put it, at worst they are referred to with such racist bile as to remind us the Democratic Party arose in the Old South…

Nov 15, 2004 - 7:26 pm 23. Doug:

Rick,

I was not referring to his efforts at the United Nations which were valiant but futile. I am referring to his overall responsibility to make the friendly nations of the world understand the reasons for the major shift in American foreign policy. SInce he apparently disagreed with the shifts himself, he had a hard time selling them. He also needed to explain to our enemies abroad, and I am including the French, the consequences of breaking with Washington in an outwardly transparent way. My feeling is that he did not succeed in these tasks. Of course he understands the formalities of diplomacy. But he lacks a deep understanding of the science of diplomacy, something I hope Rice will understand better. Truth be told, a look back at our recent history shows that State rarely contributes much to broad American policy and can only harm it. Most Presidents who have bucked conventional wisdom have marginalized State and relied on the NSA or the Defense Department or, as with FDR, their own White House assistants (Harry Hopkins) Powell’s refusal to purge disloyal elements within State actively harmed the Administration as the CIA also did a great deal of harm. So far, and it is early, GWB seems to be following the course I hoped he would when I decided to vote for him. He is on track to be a consequential president.

Nov 15, 2004 - 7:30 pm 24. Jonathan:

Colin Powell is/was the highest ranking African American government official in the history of the United States. Now Ms. Rice follows as #2 (and #2 as a female after Albright).

Does anyone know if the Democrats ever… well, what I mean is… I thought the Dems were supposed to be…

Heck, I guess I can tell which is the Progressive party.

Nov 15, 2004 - 7:31 pm 25. Rick Ballard:

Doug,

My apologies for misunderstanding the thrust of your post. I would lay most of the responsibility for lack of a purge at the feet of Armitage. It is my hope that he gets the bums rush prior to Dr. Rice’s ascension. It is not the responsibility of the Secretary of any agency to make necessary staff changes. That responsibility lays one step down. The Secretary’s responsibility is to do precisely what Porter Goss is doing at the CIA - set policy and back his subordinates.

I believe that history will judge Bush (and his appointeesa) by the economy of force used to achieve the goals set. A good historian would note the media forces arrayed against President Bush and the fact that every word uttered was not unlike every soldier exposed to IED’s. Increasing the number of words (or the number of soldiers) is only likely to increase the casualty count. If the press could be counted among the loyal rather than among the enemy, then I believe that we would see explanations that would merit fulsome praise.

Unfortunately, they have chosen the other side. Let the bastards die in their trenches.

MSM delenda est.

Nov 15, 2004 - 8:23 pm 26. Doug:

Rick,

Of course you are right it is the job of a subordinate. But the Secretary is the boss just as the president is also responsible for everything his subordiantes do. As for Armitage. He and Powell are like Frick and Frack. They are two of a kind and Armitage is sure to depart with his boss. It will be interesting to see who replaces him. Not only does this bode well for the survival of the Bush doctrine overall, but also for the survival of Bush’s Israel/Palestinian policy (contrary to the lying punditry he has one) and finally, if I were Iran I would be seriously worried right now. The man that called Iran a democracy, Rich Armitage is soon to be gone. Despite all the negative press the Neo-Cons seem to be winning. And the reason is because President Bush knows they are right and he is not willing to buckle under to public pressure. I really like this guy. Yet it’s a long way to tipperary.

Nov 15, 2004 - 8:40 pm 27. Gahrie:

I went on the record three months ago at work predicting a Condi V Hillary race in 2008.

And I also predicted that if Cheney dies/resigns that Condi will replace him.

Nov 15, 2004 - 9:00 pm 28. Silicon valley Jim:

I’m not ruling out a Presidential nomination in 2008 for Condoleezza Rice, but it would be a bit of a stretch. If memory serves, the last time that one of the two major parties nominated a Presidential candidate who had never held elective office was 1952, when the Republicans nominated Eisenhower. I’m a big fan of Condi’s, and have been since her days as Stanford’s provost, but I think that Eisenhower had a few things going for him that she doesn’t (war hero, experience coordinating a multi-national military force in a major declared war, thirty years of government service). Now, if she assembles a coalition of substantially more countries than have joined us in Iraq in a bigger war than we have now, that could change. I hope it won’t, though, because I don’t want a bigger war any more than anybody else does.

Nov 15, 2004 - 9:11 pm 29. lindenen:

“Now, if she assembles a coalition of substantially more countries than have joined us in Iraq in a bigger war than we have now, that could change.”

Speaking of which, I don’t think there’s much hope for rapprochement between France and the US till Chirac is iced or jailed or replaced with Sarkozy. Chirac is such a bitch.

Nov 15, 2004 - 9:21 pm 30. thedragonflies:

The good news is that Condi will be a S of S who really knows the foreign policy of the president and his Administration. So, when she speaks, she will be speaking for the president and the country, not some State Dept. hidden agenda.

The question is whether she can purge the Department of the Clinton/Carter/Arabist/preserve the stability of the existing tyrannies cadre that did all it could to undermine Bush in his first term.

Nov 15, 2004 - 9:22 pm 31. Rick Ballard:

If you don’t care for lice, you need nitpickers. Condi will do fine at the top job but I sure hope that we get some nitpickers of the quality that Goss brought with him to the CIA. This (once again) is not brain surgery. If Albright promoted them, send them on 3 year fact finding missions to Swaziland and Paraguay. This is a large bureacracy, no need to fire anyone, just align them with their future. Really, Togo and Bhutan deserve some attention, too. Long fact finding missions are very useful endeavors.

Nov 15, 2004 - 9:40 pm 32. SDN:

One wonders if we won’t see Powell as HRC’s VP candidate in 08.

Nov 15, 2004 - 10:10 pm 33. Rick Ballard:

Here is a look at <a href=”Here is a look at Powell from the inside. Doug seems to have a better case than I do at this point

Nov 15, 2004 - 10:11 pm 34. pjw:

A number of people have offered up the idea that Condi would make a good candidate (Sullivan, Reynolds, Roger). I think that is because at this point she is still pretty much a cipher. All anyone knows about her is she is smart and polite. I think under the intense spotlight the media focuses on a presidential candidate she might begin to look a bit wispy as far as presence goes. And as others have pointed out, she has never held elective office, kind of a big jump from that to president.

And yes, I think it’s an absolute certainty that Lady Macbeth, errr, Hillary, runs for president in 2008.

Nov 15, 2004 - 10:28 pm 35. Jon Lester:

This was predicted by William Safire a while back:

http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=26632

Nov 16, 2004 - 12:12 am 36. someone:

Note that WaPo reports further that Condi will be replaced by her deputy, Stephen Hadley.

I don’t know much about him, but I wish there’d been some new voice elevated.

Nov 16, 2004 - 12:25 am 37. Lola:

Remember . . . Condi can speak Russian fluently. And, remember how Putin seemed to show his implicit support for Bush during the election. My gut feeling is that we’re going to be teaming up with Russia somehow over GWOT.

Nov 16, 2004 - 2:31 am 38. Gahrie:

I agree that in most situations, it could be argued that Ms. Rice does not have the necessary experience to run for president. However in the specific case of running against Sen. Clinton, I think it can be seriously argued that Ms. Rice’s experiences at Stanford and in government have prepared her much more strongly for the presidency than Sen. Clinton’s experiences as first lady and senator.

I would envision Ms. Rice picking a solidly popular elected offical as VP, say Frist or Giuliani.

Nov 16, 2004 - 3:57 am 39. Matt Evans:

Rick- how much alcohol did the Dems consume prior to bringing back McCauliffe for another term ? Because drunkeness is the only thing I can think of that would explain it.

Though I suppose I’m just bitter that apparently we won’t get the Scream as DNC grand pooba.

Nov 16, 2004 - 5:11 am 40. Buddy Larsen:

Look, I’m stupid, but, is DNC chief an elected office? Isn’t there anywhere one single freaking democrat who realizes the need for an insurgency against this gang?

Nov 16, 2004 - 5:31 am 41. JJay:

Bush hasn’t even been inaugurated for his second term and already we’re looking four years down the road. An intermission would have been nice. I agree with people who are saying four years can change a lot of things. This little boomlet for Condi will fade like the flowers of spring and even with Terry Mac reinstalled as chairman of the DNC despite a record that resembles the skipper of the Titanic, does anyone seriously think ANOTHER northeastern liberal will be nominated even with the MSM and all the usual suspects solidly in her corner? That is to argue that the Democrats are not only dumb they’re stupid.

Nov 16, 2004 - 6:46 am 42. richard mcenroe:

Matt Evans ó I imagine the RNC felt about Terry McAuliff’s reappointment the way General Lee’s staff felt when they heard the Union put McClellan back in charge of the Army of the Potomac for a second campaign…

Nov 16, 2004 - 7:06 am 43. kynna:

I suspect George Allen might be seeing a higher profile in the coming years. I asked my mom, who lives in VA where he was Governor, about him and she said she thought he was going to start getting some attention. Lo and behold the next day I heard his name in connection with several different subjects in the news.

He’s got the cred. He’s from VA. His dad was coach of the Washington Redskins. He’s a slam dunk.

That being said, I’d crawl over broken glass to vote for Condi. For any office.

Nov 16, 2004 - 7:47 am 44. Mark Poling:

Those unflattering pictures the press keeps peddling be damned, does anyone else agree with me that Condoleezza Rice would be…

the hottest…

President….

EVER!

(I’m serious here, sort of…)

Nov 16, 2004 - 7:58 am 45. Silicon valley Jim:

And yes, I think it’s an absolute certainty that Lady Macbeth, errr, Hillary, runs for president in 2008.

A certainty? I don’t think so. I think that she’s the most likely candidate for the Democrats, but I’d give it about a 50% chance. My reasons for putting it that low are the following:

1. She’s fifty-seven years old. While I wouldn’t wish an early death or a serious illness on her, she’s now at an age where the probability of either of those is no longer trivial.

2. I don’t think that she’ll be nominated if she isn’t re-elected as Senator in 2006, and I don’t think that her re-election is a certainty. I remember early 1992 all too well, when nearly everybody thought that George H. Bush’s re-election was a certainty. Furthermore, I think that Rudy Giuliani would be a formidable Republican candidate for Senator should he choose to run against her.

3. She’s certainly been associated with several scandals (Whitewater, commodities investing, the vanishing billing files). There’s a probability that can’t be ignored that one more will crop up, and, as this year’s election proved, the MSM is no longer capable of protecting left-wing candidates.

Nov 16, 2004 - 7:59 am 46. Lola:

Speaking of which, saw the last paragraph in a Reuters news article about Condi . . .

“I must confess, it was hard for me to concentrate in the conversation with Condoleezza Rice because she has very nice legs,” Sharon was widely quoted as saying several years ago about his first meeting, in 2000, with then-presidential candidate Bush’s foreign policy adviser.

Certainly she’s going to be a lot bette sight than Albright . . .

You go, sista! And remember . . . never, ever, get an African American woman upset. I should know . . . mother certainly kept my sister and me in line with The Look.

Nov 16, 2004 - 8:07 am 47. Akira:

kynna - I’ve also wondered about Allen and have noticed him on the boob tube more often in the past couple of weeks. He has much more charisma than Frist and would be an easier sell to social conservatives than Rudy.

I still think HRC is the frontrunner for 08, but I agree that she needs to win in 06. Senators historically don’t fare well in presidential elections, but I’m sure they fare better than those recently booted out of office. If she loses NY to a Republican, they wouldn’t trust her winning the whole ball of wax in 08.

Nov 16, 2004 - 8:13 am 48. Riceman:

I’m glad Bush chose Condi. But I can’t see anyone changing State to a great degree. Just stopping the leaks would be amazing. State has always been against the President, since day one. Jefferson undermined Washington constantly, to such a degree they despised each other. His replacement Edmund Randolph was even worse that Washington had to fire him. His replacement, Timothy Pickering, was so obnoxious John Adams fired him, in an election year no less. State v. Prez is old, old news.

Nov 16, 2004 - 8:28 am 49. jerry:

Silicon Jim:

You have given voice to my vague feelings on HRC in ‘08. Hillary is a bogeyman to fearful Republicans and a nostalgia-based savior to desperate Democrats. However, all the political factors point to someone else. This fear and nostalgia are based on one myth and two conditions.

First, lets deal with the myth. Bill Clinton did not defeat Bush-41 in 1992. H. Ross Perot beat Bush while Clinton became President as an afterthought. [One should properly say that Bush beat Bush in 1992...read my lips...] In reality Bill Clinton did worse then Michael Dukakis. A two-way race would have been a Bush blow out.

Now lets talk about the two closely related conditions. Close cooperation between the Clinton campaign and the Iran-Contra special prosecutor over the Weinberger indictment tipped the plurality to Clinton during the last weekend of the campaign. The indictment would have been quashed because the statute of limitations had run out and the case was non-existent. It was a political indictment designed to damage Bush. If Bush had won I suspect there would have been an investigation of Walsh for misconduct. The Weinberger indictment was really a ploy to exploit the DNC/MSM connection. Without MSM support the charge would have had no legs. This is important. The MSM has been neutralized as an effect propaganda agent for the DNC. In the next election cycle the MSM will either have become neutral or operate as an open agent of the DNC. In either case, the MSM will have lost the ability to successfully manipulate the news to favor the Democrats.

Thatís the good news for HRC. Now lets look at the bad news. The country is undergoing a political ìred shift.î For the past two decades the Democrats have relied upon the minority rainbow to underpin their coalition. However, two thirds of the rainbow is either evenly split [Hispanics] or already Republican [Asians]. This leaves them with only the African-American block as reliably and safely Democratic. Given this fact the defection of just another 10% or so of the black vote to the Republicans probably turns California, Michigan and Pennsylvania into red states. California may shift red even without a substantial change in the black Republican vote if sufficient Hispanics shift red. The DNC rainbow will consists of African Americans, Jews and gays. When you throw in the Urban sophisticates New York is the only big state that is a guaranteed win.

HRC is the quintessential blue state candidate. By 2008 the only safe blue region will be New England and the Pacific Northwest. She is unelectable and by 2006 every political pro will know it. I suspect Hillary and Bill will know it too. She will enter the campaign because it is in her nature to try but somebody else is going to get the nomination.

Nov 16, 2004 - 9:55 am 50. Charlie (Colorado):

Diplomad has some interesting comments on Powell and Condi.

Nov 16, 2004 - 10:34 am 51. Michael B:

Re, 2008

I’d give Rice a good deal less than a 50/50 chance of being #1 on that ticket, a one in five chance at best, realistically, and that assumes she performs well at State. On the other hand the lack of political seasoning didn’t impede an Eisenhower. Obviously, that situation was different in many respects, still, it helps to show that the lack of political seasoning per se doesn’t need to be the impediment that some seem to be inferring. (Also agree that HRC is not more than a 50/50 possibility herself.) So at this early stage it’s little more than a bit of fun to consider a Condi Rice/HRC matchup - yet it has an instructive side nonetheless.

Condi is a rising star born of real world accomplishments, gravitas and capable of holding to a vision that combines a realism with sustainable ideals. I.e., a rising star reflecting substantial qualities.

HRC, by contrast, is a fading red dwarf whose shine always was more a result of able handlers, PR and a supporting cast of MSM friendlies. I.e., a PR-enhanced, status quo politico whose veneer and gloss belies backward looking ideological group-think and the crutch of old-school MSM/DNC collusions.

At this point a bit of provocative fun only to consider the matchup, but instructive nonetheless.

Nov 16, 2004 - 10:44 am 52. Matt Evans:

Was thinking about the whole Hillary 2008 thing yesterday and then Ballard’s Schrum comment set me off again- isn’t the dems fascination with Hillary mostly due to the fact that the Clintons represent the only real democratic victory in the last two decades? Any dem who thinks HIllary will have mainstream appeal is kidding themselves and don’t think that GOP voters are not going to remember her from Bill’s 2 terms- not to mention, if Bill’s actually up on the podium with her while she’s speaking. The GOP will never forgive Bill and Hillary for 8 years of interns and land deals and ignoring terrorism. And I can’t imagine moderates are going to feel any differently.

Schrum is what ? 0-7 now ?

Nov 16, 2004 - 10:50 am 53. Lola:

I think it’s 0-8 for Schrum.

Nov 16, 2004 - 10:57 am 54. Rick Ballard:

Really, Matt, Shrum needs to stick around. If you look at the press reports after the Mondale concession speech or the Dukakis concession speech or the Gore concession speech or the Kerry concession speech, you’ll note a striking similarity in the superlatives used to describe them. No one but Bob Shrum can turn out a concession speech like those. The Republicans don’t even try.

Ridge-Rice in ‘08

Rice-George P. in ‘16

Nov 16, 2004 - 11:23 am 55. Charlie (Colorado):

No one but Bob Shrum can turn out a concession speech like those. The Republicans don’t even try.

With Bob Shrum on the Democrat side, the Republicans don’t have to.

Nov 16, 2004 - 1:14 pm 56. Matt Ward:

These are the years in which anything can happen.

But I don’t think either Rice or Clinton will be their party’s nominees in 2008.

Hillary is fading, just as Bill Clinton is fading. Under the great sun that in George W. Bush, their legacy (doing nothing about terrorism or Social Security or taxes) is shriveling away.

Rice is building an impressive resume, but nominating an executive branch officer, other than VP, is unheard of.

By 2008, 4 of the past 5 men elected president will have been former or current Southern or Western governors. This is where the nominees will come from. They may be people we’ve hardly heard of now.

Nov 16, 2004 - 1:27 pm 57. RogerA:

I would not overlook Dr. Rice’s experience as Provost at Stanford. I am sure she is used to backstabbing, self serving bureaucrats from that milieu. As one academician remarked on this blog one time re academia: the battles are so fierce because the stakes are so small.

Nov 16, 2004 - 3:20 pm

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