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	<title>Comments on: Speaking Out on Iran</title>
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		<title>By: WichitaBoy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29090</link>
		<dc:creator>WichitaBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29090</guid>
		<description>PeterArgus,



See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/20753/story.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.parapundit.com/archives/001248.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PeterArgus,</p>
<p>See <a href="http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/20753/story.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://www.parapundit.com/archives/001248.html" rel="nofollow">here</a></p>
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		<title>By: PeterArgus</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29089</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterArgus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29089</guid>
		<description>Having cleared my head after walking the Very Large Dog, I have some more ideas on containment. How about a Cuban Missile Crisis type solution: an U.S. engineered embargo of Iranian oil until they accede to international demands.



How? I am unclear on some of this but I think Iran is now surrounded by unfriendly neighbors. I remember reading we have developed some formal security arrangments with Caspian Sea countries. Countries to the west are Afghanistan and Iran. Countries to the east are Turkey and Iraq. To the south is the Persian Gulf. A naval blockade would work but I am not sure whether Iran exports via pipeline (through Turkey perhaps?) Obviously we have the opportunity to deal with that through diplomatic efforts.



What about the inevitable rise in oil prices - why would our &quot;allies&quot; go along with that? Iran exports 2.2 million barrels a day. We have a strategic oil reserve of 670 million and rising, enough to completely replace lost Iranian exports for a year if necessary.



What if Iran declares war? Iran&#039;s has no offensive capability. I suppose they could launch strikes against military assets in the Persian Gulf but our counterstrikes would take care of that pretty quickly. We can basically sit and watch the Iranian economy grind to a halt, create unrest in the streets.



Would the Iranians take to the streets to protest U.S. economic aggression or would they protest there own government&#039;s nuclear program? I don&#039;t know but I think the latter. Some have suggested that the Iranian people have a certain affection for their nuclear weapons program. I would like to see the evidence for that.  Also this provides a good opportunity for covert operations to funnel dissension in our direction. (God I hope those covert operatives exist by now...)



Finally there is the big Kahuna himself - GW. I think the man has a proven track record of not flinching from nasty solutions. The world might hate him but they shouldn&#039;t doubt his resolve and an oil embargo is a much more pleasant alternative than a military action.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having cleared my head after walking the Very Large Dog, I have some more ideas on containment. How about a Cuban Missile Crisis type solution: an U.S. engineered embargo of Iranian oil until they accede to international demands.</p>
<p>How? I am unclear on some of this but I think Iran is now surrounded by unfriendly neighbors. I remember reading we have developed some formal security arrangments with Caspian Sea countries. Countries to the west are Afghanistan and Iran. Countries to the east are Turkey and Iraq. To the south is the Persian Gulf. A naval blockade would work but I am not sure whether Iran exports via pipeline (through Turkey perhaps?) Obviously we have the opportunity to deal with that through diplomatic efforts.</p>
<p>What about the inevitable rise in oil prices &#8211; why would our &#8220;allies&#8221; go along with that? Iran exports 2.2 million barrels a day. We have a strategic oil reserve of 670 million and rising, enough to completely replace lost Iranian exports for a year if necessary.</p>
<p>What if Iran declares war? Iran&#8217;s has no offensive capability. I suppose they could launch strikes against military assets in the Persian Gulf but our counterstrikes would take care of that pretty quickly. We can basically sit and watch the Iranian economy grind to a halt, create unrest in the streets.</p>
<p>Would the Iranians take to the streets to protest U.S. economic aggression or would they protest there own government&#8217;s nuclear program? I don&#8217;t know but I think the latter. Some have suggested that the Iranian people have a certain affection for their nuclear weapons program. I would like to see the evidence for that.  Also this provides a good opportunity for covert operations to funnel dissension in our direction. (God I hope those covert operatives exist by now&#8230;)</p>
<p>Finally there is the big Kahuna himself &#8211; GW. I think the man has a proven track record of not flinching from nasty solutions. The world might hate him but they shouldn&#8217;t doubt his resolve and an oil embargo is a much more pleasant alternative than a military action.</p>
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		<title>By: PeterArgus</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29088</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterArgus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 14:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29088</guid>
		<description>Samuel Tai:



Good round-up of options and their serious short-comings.



As for containment: if Iran was your typical &quot;rational&quot; player we could assume that the cold-war type of containment (threaten massive nuclear retaliation for any attack by Iran) would work quite well. But we are not working with a rational player or at least we can&#039;t assume we are. The Iranian governments sponsorship of terrorism is well known. Of any state, including the NoKos, they are the most likely to sponsor and supply large scale, possibly nuclear, terrorist attacks in the U.S. Presumably they would use a lack of evidence to deny involvement. It seems possible that one approach might be to warn Iran that a nuclear attack on our soil would automatically trigger a disproportionate nuclear attack on Iran by the U.S. - shoot first ask questions later. I don&#039;t like this option either but maybe it is the least worst of all.



Meanwhile we can support the dissidents in Iran as Ledeen has very vocally advocated (not military action by the U.S.). But I think the Iranian secret police and affiliated thugs are much more powerful than most people think.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Samuel Tai:</p>
<p>Good round-up of options and their serious short-comings.</p>
<p>As for containment: if Iran was your typical &#8220;rational&#8221; player we could assume that the cold-war type of containment (threaten massive nuclear retaliation for any attack by Iran) would work quite well. But we are not working with a rational player or at least we can&#8217;t assume we are. The Iranian governments sponsorship of terrorism is well known. Of any state, including the NoKos, they are the most likely to sponsor and supply large scale, possibly nuclear, terrorist attacks in the U.S. Presumably they would use a lack of evidence to deny involvement. It seems possible that one approach might be to warn Iran that a nuclear attack on our soil would automatically trigger a disproportionate nuclear attack on Iran by the U.S. &#8211; shoot first ask questions later. I don&#8217;t like this option either but maybe it is the least worst of all.</p>
<p>Meanwhile we can support the dissidents in Iran as Ledeen has very vocally advocated (not military action by the U.S.). But I think the Iranian secret police and affiliated thugs are much more powerful than most people think.</p>
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		<title>By: Terrye</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29087</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree with David. The mullahs may not care about the people of Iran and are more than happy to sacrifice many of them. They may talk about the glories of martyrdom, but when it comes to themselves I don&#039;t see them with a ticket to Paradise in their back pockets rushing head first into death like the boys of Iran did in the human wave assaults.



The Ayatollah asks that of his subjects, not himself.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with David. The mullahs may not care about the people of Iran and are more than happy to sacrifice many of them. They may talk about the glories of martyrdom, but when it comes to themselves I don&#8217;t see them with a ticket to Paradise in their back pockets rushing head first into death like the boys of Iran did in the human wave assaults.</p>
<p>The Ayatollah asks that of his subjects, not himself.</p>
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		<title>By: David Thomson</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29086</link>
		<dc:creator>David Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mad mullahs?  Where is the evidence that they are suicidal?  We should make sure the Iranian leadership knows that it will be targeted for death.  A number of weapons will be pointed directly at their work areas and homes.   These religious thugs may be relatively indifferent concerning the lives of the typical Iranian---but they worry about their own.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mad mullahs?  Where is the evidence that they are suicidal?  We should make sure the Iranian leadership knows that it will be targeted for death.  A number of weapons will be pointed directly at their work areas and homes.   These religious thugs may be relatively indifferent concerning the lives of the typical Iranian&#8212;but they worry about their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Dishman</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29085</link>
		<dc:creator>Dishman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29085</guid>
		<description>Realistically, what do the Europeans have to lose?  It&#039;s not like Iran is going to nuke Paris.  This is one way for the French to get rid of that &quot;shitty little country&quot;.



Maybe that&#039;s their real objective.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Realistically, what do the Europeans have to lose?  It&#8217;s not like Iran is going to nuke Paris.  This is one way for the French to get rid of that &#8220;shitty little country&#8221;.</p>
<p>Maybe that&#8217;s their real objective.</p>
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		<title>By: M. Simon</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29084</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29084</guid>
		<description>I have a long and involved &lt;a href=&quot;http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2004/11/iran-is-asking-for-it.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post on this subject that includes chemistry, physics, and politics.&lt;/a&gt;



The short version?



Iran is next.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a long and involved <a href="http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2004/11/iran-is-asking-for-it.html" rel="nofollow">post on this subject that includes chemistry, physics, and politics.</a></p>
<p>The short version?</p>
<p>Iran is next.</p>
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		<title>By: Terrye</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29083</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29083</guid>
		<description>Jamie:



I think the mad mullahs used the phrase &quot;vomit the Zionist entity from the region&quot; for what they would do if they had a nuclear weapon.



And then they said they would get a bomb if they damn well felt like it. And then they said they would not.. would.. would not.. whatever.



There you have it.. they will or will not get the bomb and if they do they will nuke Israel but nobody has the right to interfere with them and diplomacy works when dealing with religious fanatics. usually.



make sense?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jamie:</p>
<p>I think the mad mullahs used the phrase &#8220;vomit the Zionist entity from the region&#8221; for what they would do if they had a nuclear weapon.</p>
<p>And then they said they would get a bomb if they damn well felt like it. And then they said they would not.. would.. would not.. whatever.</p>
<p>There you have it.. they will or will not get the bomb and if they do they will nuke Israel but nobody has the right to interfere with them and diplomacy works when dealing with religious fanatics. usually.</p>
<p>make sense?</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29082</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29082</guid>
		<description>&quot;My own personal take on it is that the administration is baffled. They don&#039;t have an answer to what to do about Iran any more than I do. There probably isn&#039;t any answer. I&#039;ve asked several times on this very blog what people want to do but I have never received much of an answer. What, exactly, does Michael Ledeen mean by &quot;faster, please&quot;? Is he advocating a direct war with Iran, or is he just hoping to back into it surreptitiously? And if we do indeed go to war with Iran, is it really feasible that we will be able to avoid the draft?&quot;



It&#039;s not only feasible, it&#039;s crucial - bringing back the draft is absolutely the best way I can think of for us to &lt;i&gt;lose&lt;/i&gt; the entire War on Terror.



If our fearless leaders had only raised the enlistment caps two years ago, we wouldn&#039;t be having this conversation.  But we can, and I believe we must, raise the caps in the &lt;i&gt;very&lt;/i&gt; near future.  And we&#039;ll need to retask some of the guys babysitting Iraq (which makes sense, since knocking over the mullahs will dry up the backing for some of the &quot;insurgents&quot;) and Europe.



Because something even worse than an attack on Israel is in the offing.  If the mullahs get nuclear invulnerability, they&#039;ll decide that they can stage repeated conventional terrorist attacks with impunity, right here in the Great Satan as well as in the lesser Satans.  And unless we&#039;re ready to lose a city, we won&#039;t really be able to do jack about it.  You can also kiss a free Iraq goodbye; the place will be flooded with &quot;insurgents&quot; faster than you can say &quot;North Vietnam&quot; and we (and they) will be completely screwed.



Time is running out.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My own personal take on it is that the administration is baffled. They don&#8217;t have an answer to what to do about Iran any more than I do. There probably isn&#8217;t any answer. I&#8217;ve asked several times on this very blog what people want to do but I have never received much of an answer. What, exactly, does Michael Ledeen mean by &#8220;faster, please&#8221;? Is he advocating a direct war with Iran, or is he just hoping to back into it surreptitiously? And if we do indeed go to war with Iran, is it really feasible that we will be able to avoid the draft?&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not only feasible, it&#8217;s crucial &#8211; bringing back the draft is absolutely the best way I can think of for us to <i>lose</i> the entire War on Terror.</p>
<p>If our fearless leaders had only raised the enlistment caps two years ago, we wouldn&#8217;t be having this conversation.  But we can, and I believe we must, raise the caps in the <i>very</i> near future.  And we&#8217;ll need to retask some of the guys babysitting Iraq (which makes sense, since knocking over the mullahs will dry up the backing for some of the &#8220;insurgents&#8221;) and Europe.</p>
<p>Because something even worse than an attack on Israel is in the offing.  If the mullahs get nuclear invulnerability, they&#8217;ll decide that they can stage repeated conventional terrorist attacks with impunity, right here in the Great Satan as well as in the lesser Satans.  And unless we&#8217;re ready to lose a city, we won&#8217;t really be able to do jack about it.  You can also kiss a free Iraq goodbye; the place will be flooded with &#8220;insurgents&#8221; faster than you can say &#8220;North Vietnam&#8221; and we (and they) will be completely screwed.</p>
<p>Time is running out.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Irons</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29081</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Irons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/20/speaking-out-on-iran/#comment-29081</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Somebody please educate me&lt;/b&gt; a bit on this issue.



To the best of my recollection, Iran has clearly, repeatedly, and publicly stated it will use its nuclear weapons, once obtained, to destroy Israel.



Every thinking person knows that Israel is, in effect, the front line in the &quot;War on Terror.&quot;



So either the Mad Mullahs are blowing smoke (in which case how does one take seriously any of their proclamations?), or they are quite serious.



If the latter, how can one possbly justify allowing them to attain nuclear status?



Do our options become any easier once they have the bomb?



Just asking.



Jamie Irons
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Somebody please educate me</b> a bit on this issue.</p>
<p>To the best of my recollection, Iran has clearly, repeatedly, and publicly stated it will use its nuclear weapons, once obtained, to destroy Israel.</p>
<p>Every thinking person knows that Israel is, in effect, the front line in the &#8220;War on Terror.&#8221;</p>
<p>So either the Mad Mullahs are blowing smoke (in which case how does one take seriously any of their proclamations?), or they are quite serious.</p>
<p>If the latter, how can one possbly justify allowing them to attain nuclear status?</p>
<p>Do our options become any easier once they have the bomb?</p>
<p>Just asking.</p>
<p>Jamie Irons</p>
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