<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Dept. of Van Gogh &#8211; More Bad News from Europe</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:17:50 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Neo</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29273</link>
		<dc:creator>Neo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29273</guid>
		<description>When I was in the Netherlands just a week ago, the folks there were quick to point out that Van Gogh wasn&#039;t disliked just for the movie about Muslim&#039;s treatment of women.

Van Gogh was compared with Michael Moore as a general pain-in-the-ass as they thought he had managed, through his many odd remarks etc.,  to acquire more enemies than just the Muslims.

While they thought murder was an extreme reaction, they didn&#039;t seem suprised that Van Gogh was targeted.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was in the Netherlands just a week ago, the folks there were quick to point out that Van Gogh wasn&#8217;t disliked just for the movie about Muslim&#8217;s treatment of women.</p>
<p>Van Gogh was compared with Michael Moore as a general pain-in-the-ass as they thought he had managed, through his many odd remarks etc.,  to acquire more enemies than just the Muslims.</p>
<p>While they thought murder was an extreme reaction, they didn&#8217;t seem suprised that Van Gogh was targeted.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael B</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29272</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29272</guid>
		<description>Recalling the line from &lt;i&gt;Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid&lt;/i&gt; I want to say of Spengler, &quot;Who is that guy?&quot;



Some are reading him &lt;i&gt;far&lt;/i&gt; too literally.  Spengler is a provocative and probative analyst in this piece who deserves nothing but applause.  His most elemental themes are nothing less than human nature and civilization and he&#039;s advancing along Socratic/realist lines, not by virtue of any facile presumption or insinuation.  When he employs some fairly caustic irony it&#039;s to achieve penetrating effect, to further ask all the right questions.  Spengler is not formulating anti-Western dogma or cant, not even anti-Christian or anti-religious themes.  Instead, Socratically, he&#039;s asking all the right questions.  He&#039;s employing not a bludgeon, but a scalpel, and he&#039;s expertly cutting to precisely the right depth.  More than applause, an ovation is his due.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recalling the line from <i>Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid</i> I want to say of Spengler, &#8220;Who is that guy?&#8221;</p>
<p>Some are reading him <i>far</i> too literally.  Spengler is a provocative and probative analyst in this piece who deserves nothing but applause.  His most elemental themes are nothing less than human nature and civilization and he&#8217;s advancing along Socratic/realist lines, not by virtue of any facile presumption or insinuation.  When he employs some fairly caustic irony it&#8217;s to achieve penetrating effect, to further ask all the right questions.  Spengler is not formulating anti-Western dogma or cant, not even anti-Christian or anti-religious themes.  Instead, Socratically, he&#8217;s asking all the right questions.  He&#8217;s employing not a bludgeon, but a scalpel, and he&#8217;s expertly cutting to precisely the right depth.  More than applause, an ovation is his due.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ArtD0dger</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29271</link>
		<dc:creator>ArtD0dger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29271</guid>
		<description>Jeez Roger, your intro hardly prepared us for that article.



This Spengler inhabits the darkest of all possible worlds. His bitterly anti-western opening is typical enough in this day, but he follows it with anti-christian, anti-jewish, and anti-islamic tracts that are equally disparaging. All the parties, it seems, are irrevocably committed to primitive, inflexible worldviews that condemn them to a great train-wreck of civilizations. The scary part is that he actually makes his case quite forcefully.



But I do not believe it has come to that quite yet.



Hey, wasn&#039;t this guy a ghost-buster or something?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeez Roger, your intro hardly prepared us for that article.</p>
<p>This Spengler inhabits the darkest of all possible worlds. His bitterly anti-western opening is typical enough in this day, but he follows it with anti-christian, anti-jewish, and anti-islamic tracts that are equally disparaging. All the parties, it seems, are irrevocably committed to primitive, inflexible worldviews that condemn them to a great train-wreck of civilizations. The scary part is that he actually makes his case quite forcefully.</p>
<p>But I do not believe it has come to that quite yet.</p>
<p>Hey, wasn&#8217;t this guy a ghost-buster or something?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin P</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29270</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29270</guid>
		<description>Roger:



In the runup and  aftermath of this election there have been many hysterical comparisons between Christian and Muslim orthodoxy. The Van Gogh murder is a good teaching lesson. When the various artistic experiments in religous icons and fecal material was taking place(piss christ etc.) There were many calls of blasphemey and calls for action. The Christian community did respond, with a call to end  federal tax support. The difference between getting your tax supported money pulled and getting buthchered in the street should explain the difference between the two religous communities.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger:</p>
<p>In the runup and  aftermath of this election there have been many hysterical comparisons between Christian and Muslim orthodoxy. The Van Gogh murder is a good teaching lesson. When the various artistic experiments in religous icons and fecal material was taking place(piss christ etc.) There were many calls of blasphemey and calls for action. The Christian community did respond, with a call to end  federal tax support. The difference between getting your tax supported money pulled and getting buthchered in the street should explain the difference between the two religous communities.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ariana</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29269</link>
		<dc:creator>Ariana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29269</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t let van Gogh&#039;s murder silence his statement.





One fitting response to van Gogh&#039;s murderers would be an international audience for his film.

Are there plans to release the film Submission in the United States?



At the very least, many people will be interested in purchasing his film through the usual online video/dvd sources, including English subtitles.




</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t let van Gogh&#8217;s murder silence his statement.</p>
<p>One fitting response to van Gogh&#8217;s murderers would be an international audience for his film.</p>
<p>Are there plans to release the film Submission in the United States?</p>
<p>At the very least, many people will be interested in purchasing his film through the usual online video/dvd sources, including English subtitles.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chuck</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29268</link>
		<dc:creator>chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29268</guid>
		<description>pdq332:



I feel that your analysis is perhaps a bit too blue state. Religion is not just another opinion if you truly believe that you serve God, the creator of the universe and man. Think about it, think about it as if such a God existed. Now if such a God revealed his desires to Mohammed and they are written down in the Koran, how should one act? You are asking that these folks become skeptics or non-believers, as most Europeans these days seem to be. This is not easy, especially when the religion is winning new converts simply because it offers something solid in the spongy morass of current European identity and morality.



The great achievement in this country is that sincere belief in God does not in general lead to violent action against non-believers or heretical sects. There have been exceptions, of course. John Brown was one such. But in general we have benefited from the hard earned tolerance that eventually followed on the English civil war and the Revolution of 1688. It also helps when there can be latter day prophets, such as George Fox or Joseph Smith. This allows for some change, whether or not we personally believe in their revelations. There have been such movements in Islam, the Sufis for one. Let us hope that the Salifists fail in their attempt to become the one true Islam and that something closer to the Sufi tradition flourishes in its stead.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pdq332:</p>
<p>I feel that your analysis is perhaps a bit too blue state. Religion is not just another opinion if you truly believe that you serve God, the creator of the universe and man. Think about it, think about it as if such a God existed. Now if such a God revealed his desires to Mohammed and they are written down in the Koran, how should one act? You are asking that these folks become skeptics or non-believers, as most Europeans these days seem to be. This is not easy, especially when the religion is winning new converts simply because it offers something solid in the spongy morass of current European identity and morality.</p>
<p>The great achievement in this country is that sincere belief in God does not in general lead to violent action against non-believers or heretical sects. There have been exceptions, of course. John Brown was one such. But in general we have benefited from the hard earned tolerance that eventually followed on the English civil war and the Revolution of 1688. It also helps when there can be latter day prophets, such as George Fox or Joseph Smith. This allows for some change, whether or not we personally believe in their revelations. There have been such movements in Islam, the Sufis for one. Let us hope that the Salifists fail in their attempt to become the one true Islam and that something closer to the Sufi tradition flourishes in its stead.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: pdq332</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29267</link>
		<dc:creator>pdq332</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 02:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29267</guid>
		<description>The thing that strikes me the most is how childish is the Muslim position at the root of it.  Every six year old learns on the playground the difference between an giving insult and being insulted: being that the latter is under your control.  So they have institutionalized a six year old&#039;s emotional response to insults in their blasphemy laws.  Brilliant.






</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing that strikes me the most is how childish is the Muslim position at the root of it.  Every six year old learns on the playground the difference between an giving insult and being insulted: being that the latter is under your control.  So they have institutionalized a six year old&#8217;s emotional response to insults in their blasphemy laws.  Brilliant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: PeterUK</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29266</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29266</guid>
		<description>What you are seeing here is the European political system at work.

1 Create a problem

2 Brush any visible mess from the problem under the carpet.

3 Howl down anyone who suggests there might be a problem.

4 Deny there is a problem.

5 Legislate against those who bear the brunt of the problem.

6 Suddenly notice that everything has gone shit shaped and there is an enormous problem.

7 Panic and bring in ill thought out draconian legislation.

8 Start again on a new problem,which has arisen from the legislation brought in to solve the old problem

9 Repeat until it is time to retire in glory on the public purse,showered with honours and regarded as a wise elder statesman.

10 Lose no opportunity in advising &quot;younger&quot; countries how to manage their affairs and show respect to a statesman of your illustrious standing.

11 Preferably be French.

Please note that this is equal opportunity incompetence and the use of the word statesman is non gender specific,nor does it etc etc etc.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you are seeing here is the European political system at work.</p>
<p>1 Create a problem</p>
<p>2 Brush any visible mess from the problem under the carpet.</p>
<p>3 Howl down anyone who suggests there might be a problem.</p>
<p>4 Deny there is a problem.</p>
<p>5 Legislate against those who bear the brunt of the problem.</p>
<p>6 Suddenly notice that everything has gone shit shaped and there is an enormous problem.</p>
<p>7 Panic and bring in ill thought out draconian legislation.</p>
<p>8 Start again on a new problem,which has arisen from the legislation brought in to solve the old problem</p>
<p>9 Repeat until it is time to retire in glory on the public purse,showered with honours and regarded as a wise elder statesman.</p>
<p>10 Lose no opportunity in advising &#8220;younger&#8221; countries how to manage their affairs and show respect to a statesman of your illustrious standing.</p>
<p>11 Preferably be French.</p>
<p>Please note that this is equal opportunity incompetence and the use of the word statesman is non gender specific,nor does it etc etc etc.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: thibaud</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29265</link>
		<dc:creator>thibaud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29265</guid>
		<description>Re. &quot;red&quot; and &quot;blue,&quot; stereotypes are deceiving. Anyone who&#039;s spent a lot of time in the great northern cities and the southern US knows that race relations are far worse in those supposed bastions of progressivism, New York and Boston, than anywhere in the south.



Over the last 20 years, the worst big-city race riots in this country have all occurred in three cities, each of whic voted for Kerry by more than two to one: NYC, Boston, and LA.



Be likewise skeptical of Europe&#039;s veneer of &quot;progressive&quot; tolerance. I&#039;m betting the next Holland-style outbreak of violence and retribution will occur in Denmark or Sweden.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re. &#8220;red&#8221; and &#8220;blue,&#8221; stereotypes are deceiving. Anyone who&#8217;s spent a lot of time in the great northern cities and the southern US knows that race relations are far worse in those supposed bastions of progressivism, New York and Boston, than anywhere in the south.</p>
<p>Over the last 20 years, the worst big-city race riots in this country have all occurred in three cities, each of whic voted for Kerry by more than two to one: NYC, Boston, and LA.</p>
<p>Be likewise skeptical of Europe&#8217;s veneer of &#8220;progressive&#8221; tolerance. I&#8217;m betting the next Holland-style outbreak of violence and retribution will occur in Denmark or Sweden.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bkochba</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29264</link>
		<dc:creator>bkochba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2004/11/22/dept-of-van-gogh-more-bad-news-from-europe/#comment-29264</guid>
		<description>This is incredible:



&quot;It is not clear where the present crisis will lead. A few European politicians are demanding harsh measures to suppress Islamist radicalism. The German state of Baden-Wuerttemberg&#039;s cultural minister, Annette Schavan, proposes that a law to compel Muslim clergy to preach exclusively in German, while the interior minister of Brandenburg, Joerg Schoenbohm, wants to take away the citizenship of &quot;hate preachers&quot;.&quot;



Nothing ever changes in Europe, does it?



They keep lecturing Americans on how easy it was for the Nazis to take power, how we don&#039;t realize how easily civil liberties are eroded, but when it comes to it, who doesn&#039;t remember, who comes up with the same nationalistic measures every time?










</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is incredible:</p>
<p>&#8220;It is not clear where the present crisis will lead. A few European politicians are demanding harsh measures to suppress Islamist radicalism. The German state of Baden-Wuerttemberg&#8217;s cultural minister, Annette Schavan, proposes that a law to compel Muslim clergy to preach exclusively in German, while the interior minister of Brandenburg, Joerg Schoenbohm, wants to take away the citizenship of &#8220;hate preachers&#8221;.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nothing ever changes in Europe, does it?</p>
<p>They keep lecturing Americans on how easy it was for the Nazis to take power, how we don&#8217;t realize how easily civil liberties are eroded, but when it comes to it, who doesn&#8217;t remember, who comes up with the same nationalistic measures every time?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
