51 Comments

1. blogaddict:

Ah, Roger, don’t you understand? Journalism as we knew it is dead; long live the new journalism (not)!!!

The new journalism is simply a game of gossip, played to a wide audience, a game in which the journalists root around till they find an anonymous source willing to state whatever dire news it is that they are looking for. And they can always find it–or, if not, I suspect they are more than willing to make it up, because truth is relative and all that.

Seymour Hersch is the best example of the gossip style of journalism, and Dan Rather and CBS are not far behind. But there are many who exemplify the genre.

Newspapers in particular do not rely on fact-checkers, but expect their reporters to regulate themselves http://slate.msn.com/id/2083529/ . I’m not sure such a system ever worked, but it certainly isn’t working any more.

Dec 6, 2004 - 8:19 pm 2. ambisinistral:

Sounds famliar. Maybe to save time they just grabbed an old article and did a global search and replace of Afghanistan with Iraq.

Waste not, want not.

Dec 6, 2004 - 8:21 pm 3. chuck:

Bit down on the Times today, are we. I wonder how Charlie(C)’s rule works in this case: whose/what ineterest is served by the leak?

That said, Hammorabi is in a desperate mood, so I would hazard that things are a bit hairy at the moment, especially in parts of Baghdad and heading north to Mosul. I also admit to being worried about HealingIraq, who is not in the safest part of Baghdad and hasn’t posted recently.

However, things do seem to be improving overall, if slowly. Najaf and Sadr City seem much better, for instance. We shall see. I do wish there was a paper I could trust for a balanced assessment of the situation.

Dec 6, 2004 - 8:27 pm 4. Kevin P:

Roger:

The Times knows it only has weeks to try to paint as horrific picture of the war in Iraq as possible and to try to set up the manufactured scenario of chaos so they can paint the January elections as a failure before they even happen. Of course the “insurgents” are going to throw as many bombs and kill as many Iraqi’s as possible because they are terrified that if the elections happen and a Iraqi government is elected their reign of terror will lose some of its biggest propaganda points when the people of Iraq see that the US is serious about handing over power to an elected Iraqi government.

Of course putting a democracy in Iraq will be difficult. Of course the former fascist government of Saddam and it’s henchmen are going to fight it tooth and nail. Of course the Sunni muslims that tortured the majority shiite population is in mortal fear of a democratic government being put in that will expose their criminal activity. Of course the other dictators in the middle east do not want the example of a democratic Iraq and Afghanistan to give their own imprisoned people the wrong idea and they will do what they can to topple our efforts there.

The craveness of the Times is complete. For years the Times ripped American governments for backing dictatorships in the middle east and they used this fact to rationalize some of the terrorism that sprung from this region. President Bush finnally attempts to bring democracy to this region and the Times has done everything in it’s power to destroy this effort. They say that he is not doing it in the proper fashion but offer no alternitive to the Bush plan. The UN had neither the power or the will do get rid of the Taliban or Saddam. They would issue resolutions that those governments laughed at because they knew that they were only paper and that in the long run the UN would accept the status qou and do nothing to bring about regime change. If Bush had listened to the Times both the Taliban and Saddam would still be in power and the oil for food program has shown that Europe was perfectly willing to continue to do business with fascist governments and that they have no problem leaving all of the Middle East under totalitarian regimes.The Times likes to pretend that it is a crusading paper but it is just a reactionary rag that talks a good game but in the end wants to talk about the misery of the non democratic world at the cocktail party circuit but do nothing real to change the situation that excists. They would rather accomplish nothing but do it non violently then to do the hard work that sometimes requires the sacrifice of life to achieve real change.

Dec 6, 2004 - 8:47 pm 5. Wallace:

This is not for publication on the Internet:

I have close friend, Bxll, who is a Senior Attxche with the Stxte Dept. [obfuscated to protect his identity] in Afghanistan. He tells me that with the installation of the new President today things will either change or they won’t.

You heard it hear first.

Dec 6, 2004 - 8:53 pm 6. Jeff Harrell:

My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with a girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night.

Guess it’s pretty serious.

Dec 6, 2004 - 9:03 pm 7. richard mcenroe:

For those of you with small children, or nieces and nephews… have you ever caught one of them with something they shouldn’t have? Have they even then told you, “Somebody said I could have this?”

Little Pinch Sulzberger started that…

Dec 6, 2004 - 9:14 pm 8. Calico Jack:

One of the things that I think has changed in the last several weeks is that “insurgents” (i.e. fascist jihadis) are directly attacking Shiite establishments. This will probably help ensure that this 60% or so will not support the “insurgency” as in its current form (this might explain the lack of news from Najaf and Sadr City, as mentioned above by chuck).

However, it obviously isn’t good if there is an explicit Shiite/Sunni divide in the country of this magnitude. Also, if no Sunnis turnout for the elections, will the results be considered invalid?

One thing for sure, however, is that no meaningful insight whatsoever is to be gained from reading NYT hack pieces such as the one above…

Dec 6, 2004 - 9:24 pm 9. John Moore ( Useful Fools ):

The News York Times is a parochial local paper of a large city that itself is barely attached to America. The paying customers come from a non-representative liberal elite. The NYT has the pretense of being the leading news source for the nation, but technology and the variety of news sources have blown its cover - it’s really a jaded organization pandering to its jaded euro-American leftist customers.

If the rest of the eastern media didn’t use the Times for its story ideas, we wouldn’t give a damn what the Times prints or its blue-state readers think.

Dec 6, 2004 - 9:37 pm 10. Ramrod:

For a couple of years now we’ve been hearing the NYTimes tell us how how our intelligence [an oxymoron] has been unable to spot a bad guy from an elephant. Now, suddenly, an operative, who is about to get fired, is to be believed as gospel. Is that a great paper, or what!

Dec 6, 2004 - 9:40 pm 11. richard mcenroe:

Is Lewis Carroll Alive and Secretly Working for the New York Times?

No. “Jabberwocky” has meter and rhythm. This is just gibberish.

Dec 6, 2004 - 9:49 pm 12. Fresh Air:

Richard Mac–

Little Pinch Sulzberger “did gyre and gimbal in the wabe.”

I like that.

Calico Jack–

If the South could get used to remaining in a country in which they were forced to sit out an election, I think the Sunnis can too. As VDH eloquently put it:

We have come too far and too many have died to cease or even pause. In the name of the dead Americans, those lost of the Coalition, and the resolute Iraqis who were butchered by both Saddam and then by the Islamic fascists, let the January election proceed as promised. If Bill Clinton could run America with 43 percent of the popular vote in 1992, if Lincoln could conduct a war after receiving 40 percent in 1860, and if the Supreme Court could adjudicate the electoral mess of 2000, so then the Kurds and the Shiites, if need be, can hold elections in Iraq with participation of 70 percent of the people. As for the Muslim clerics, Saddamites, and al Qaedists of the Sunni triangle, rest assured that there will be elections and you shall all end up on the wrong side of history. How absurd it is that the Sunni Triangle is the heart of an insurrection that feeds off either subsidy, appeasement, or the indifference of its citizenry, only then to plead that its own malfeasance should earn special dispensation from others who chose hard work and sacrifice and the chance for democratic law. Let them participate in history or watch it steamroll by from the sidelines–but let them not stop it.

Dec 6, 2004 - 10:19 pm 13. David Thomson:

Why is a supposedly confidential memo in the hands of the NY Times? Isnít the CIA a secret government agency? Also, why are the insights of a CIA professional all that important? Since when did this agency possess a record of consistent insightful analysis? Shouldnít our initial reaction be one of: ìWho gives a crap?î

The American liberal establishment wants us to fail in Iraq. They will do their best to discourage our efforts. It is also accurate to declare that ìIf the rest of the eastern media didn’t use the Times for its story ideas, we wouldn’t give a damn what the Times prints or its blue-state readers think.î Thatís absolutely correct. The lazy journalists of many newspapers merely regurgitate whatever is printed on the front page of the NY Times. This is the central reason why this paper is able to be so destructive.

Dec 7, 2004 - 1:24 am 14. Peter Boston:

One other shining example of NYT journalistic “integrity” I haven’t seen for a while is using a column headline to report an internal poll result as a factual news item. “90% of Americans Hate Bush” ad nauseum. Maybe Sulzberger saves that gambit for election years.

The advantage of getting news online is that you can assemble your own more-trustworthy newspaper reporting staff by picking and choosing the best columnists from among the hundreds of newspapers with websites. Propagandists like Dehl who deserve no respect get tossed in the trashcan and never read.

Dec 7, 2004 - 1:39 am 15. Ron Hardin:

My own favorite news genre is viewing with concern, followed by questions having been raised.

Dec 7, 2004 - 3:04 am 16. Duke:

OK, OK—isn’t anybody considering the possibility that the story is true? Classified docs “revealed” is standard proceedure these days.

Dec 7, 2004 - 3:22 am 17. ambisinistral:

Duke,

Well, of course it is true. You need a “classified” memo to know the tempo of attacks are going to escalate in the near future? Do you also doubt that quotes were cherry-picked out of any memo they might actually have?

It is the lack of balance and context that are being mocked in this thread.

Dec 7, 2004 - 4:19 am 18. syn:

I met Omar and Mohammed Ali through Spirit of America last night, they have a very different perspective about the elections than Western journalists.

Roger, wait until you meet these fine heros for they do indeed inspire with their words and they truly believe in building a free and representitive government in Iraq, it’s in their soul.

I was so humbled to be in the presence of history. Mohammmed spoke in such a way as to remind me that Democracy is a never ending persuit and that I would myself die on behalf defending freedom. The brothers reminded me why it is worth my blood.

They feel MORE SECURE today, even with all the bombings and such, than they ever felt under Saddam. No longer forced to live a “double-think” life of fear! These men are an inspiration to all!

Roger, meeting these real freedom fighters is a treat of a lifetime.

I encourage everyone to donate to Roger’s Spirit of America challenge, worth every penny to be a part of this historic event.

Dec 7, 2004 - 4:54 am 19. D Anghelone:

So I ask you, should the three strikes and you’re out law be expanded to unnamed sources? Three unnamed sources and the article goes in the waste basket.

No, you can still get on base on sheer balls.

Dec 7, 2004 - 5:02 am 20. TmjUtah:

Afghanistan has elected a president.

The Times will do its best to see that Iraq doesn’t, but they’ll fail, just like the Sunnis and Iran will, too.

Dec 7, 2004 - 6:37 am 21. Cynic:

Who sent the “classified cable”? Michael Scheuer?

Dec 7, 2004 - 7:01 am 22. Nomorelies:

Yeah right. A cable faxed from a Kinko’s in Abilene to Kitty Kelly to the NY Times.

How does the NYTimes always end up on the receiving end of “leaks” from top-secret sources that would land the sender in the klinker for years? Do they just happen to have a clever little liberal college jockey sitting in the back room dreaming this stuff up? Do they pay by the article, the word or the lie?

Dec 7, 2004 - 7:18 am 23. Fausta:

Is Lewis Carroll Alive and Secretly Working for the New York Times?

No. “Jabberwocky” has meter and rhythm. This is just gibberish.

Richard Mcenroe, your reply reminded me of Mad Magazine, when I was a kid (a.k.a. olden days) when they did an ad for a book, quoting splendidly favorable comments — usually only one word or two — from really really bad reviews.

NYT = the new Mad.

Dec 7, 2004 - 7:26 am 24. Terrye:

So much for classified. I think yet another government employee needs to be looking for a new job.

I don’t doubt that there will be mayhem in Iraq in the near future. I think that going into Fallujah was necessary but it also had the effect of taking a broom to a hornet’s nest. They are pissed and they are everywhere. For now. However, it will be difficult to for them to ever get that comfy again. They are running and hiding and killing.

I think the Times is fighting history. If they are going to use classified material they might as well name the sources and then publish both reports in their entirety so that we can decide for ourselves what is worthy of mention.

And it should also be remembered that what is going to happen will happen whether the Times likes it or not. The NYT may have delusions of grandeur but they don’t dictate history, fate does.

Dec 7, 2004 - 7:32 am 25. flenser:

A cable? Really? What is this, 1950?

It’s laughable to think that the CIA transmits sensitive correspondence by “cable”. I rather suspect they use encrypted email sent via secure channels. This story has as much credibility as an Elvis sighting in “News of the World”.

But then, consider the source.

Dec 7, 2004 - 7:59 am 26. jerry:

Flenser:

I don’t have time to add something write now but just wanted to let you know that the term “Cable” is used like my patents used ice box for refrigertor. However, I think the State Department may still uses actual cables.

Dec 7, 2004 - 8:12 am 27. Silicon valley Jim:

Wallace’s post and the last paragraph quoted from the NYT remind me of an incident about thirty years ago in which an economist (perhaps John Kenneth Galbraith) said “almost anything could happen with the economy”, or words to that effect.

If memory serves, Mike Royko had a field day with this, observing later that the economist had been absolutely correct - almost anything did happen.

Dec 7, 2004 - 8:25 am 28. PeterArgus:

They said it warned that the security situation was likely to get worse,

including more violence and sectarian clashes, unless there were marked improvements

soon on the part of the Iraqi government, in terms of its ability to assert

authority and to build the economy.

I know Roger already said this but it bears repeating: Isn’t this what the

adminstration has been saying for months now? As the elections approach things

are likely to get worse. Now those sources are unclassified and even

give their names. I think the NYT and their "bug" inside the CIA think

that by portraying this as a leak it adds the taint of cover-up and if there

is one thing the MSM loves to follow its a cover-up (well unless it involves

the UN, DNC, etc.)

The other interesting thing about this leak is that the cable apparently was

sent "late last month". It would be nice to know exactly when that

was. The Fallujah offensive was pretty much over before Thanksgiving but many

counterstrikes by insurgents and new offensives by coalition forces were (and

still are) underway as the insurgents were scattering like cockroaches from

a nest that has been fumigated. Thus the assessment might besomewhat dated.

At any rate, one could assume that the Iraqi government is continuing to do

just what the cable advised: "assert its authority".

Dec 7, 2004 - 8:55 am 29. flenser:

jerry

Cables, huh? Sounds like a candidate for a spoof by iowahawk.

pocketa-pocketa-queep.

The cable machine suddenly burst into life, spitting out yards of paper. Captain Clark tore it off and scanned it quickly.

“Jumpin’ Jimminy, it’s a cable from our CIA station chief, Plume! It looks like we’re losing the war to the dastardly insurgents. Quick, alert the New York Times!

Suffice it to say I don’t believe a word of this. A rule that’s always worked well for me is, if it appears in the NYT and quotes some “anonymous source”, it’s more then likely a complete fabrication.

Dec 7, 2004 - 9:06 am 30. chuck:

I suppose that it is worth pointing out that, real or not, cherry-picked or not, it doesn’t matter. We are in this to the finish and the information that matters is that which provides grounds for action. The rest is just fluff.

The NY Times may disagree with my POV, but f**k em.

Dec 7, 2004 - 9:33 am 31. Kyda Sylvester:

No, What’s on second and I Dunno’s on third.

Dec 7, 2004 - 9:36 am 32. Fresh Air:

Flenser–

Another rule I’ve found handy is, when the NYT writes “Americans are_____________” followed by the usual predicate: “increasingly concerned about Iraq”; “troubled by the economy”; “worried about global warming,” etc., replace the word “Americans” and insert “members of the New York Times Editorial Board”.

Works wonders for clarity. Like taking Mr. Clean to a high school cafeteria floor.

Dec 7, 2004 - 9:37 am 33. KarenT:

So, an anonymous CIA official thinks that it will be necessary for the Iraqi government to ASSERT ITS AUTHORITY in order for the situation in Iraq to improve. Makes sense to me. I wonder if the NYT agrees?

Imagine how little authority the Iraqi government would have had if Kerry had won the election, after the efforts of his campaign managers Joe Lockhart and Mike McCurry to undercut the authority of the Interim President of Iraq. Maybe under Kerry’s secret plan for winning the war in Iraq, the Iraqi government wouldn’t have needed any authority.

Dec 7, 2004 - 10:01 am 34. charlotte:

There is no secret here- this is all a big mistake. The CIA station chief in Baghdad didn’t send a classified “cable” about failure in Iraq that got leaked; it was a classified ad for seeking employment, because the agency has failed in Iraq, before, during and since the war. In fact, we should be expecting to hear about a lot of “work wanted” classifieds from CIA entrenched henchmen careerists whose politics, posturings, and policies have failed us. Wasn’t this particular one sent on the heels of Bush’s re-election and the expectation that he would be cleaning house?

Certainly, the NYT should give their faithful intel sources a big break on the ad rates, such as they have given in their generous reviews of the agency’s bash-Bush books.

Dec 7, 2004 - 10:13 am 35. Cynic:

blogaddict

“Newspapers in particular do not rely on fact-checkers, but expect their reporters to regulate themselves…”

Here’s an example from Laurence Simon

“Reuters gets the wrong Barghouti”

http://www.isfullofcrap.com/oldcrap/014535.html#comments

“For a man serving five life sentences in an Israeli jail, he sure gets around, doesn’t he?”

Dec 7, 2004 - 10:40 am 36. Bruce W.:

Someone help me understand this.

I can understand, of course, concern about fraud in the handling of an election and the failure to have valid votes counted (whether fraudulent or simple screw up). But since when is an election result invalidated by the voluntary failure of the enfranchised to get their ignorant asses to the polling booths?

If a majority of, say, Irish-Americans sat it out this past November for whatever reason (for example, too pissed at Kerry when they finally realized he wasn’t as Irish as he let on, but couldn’t bring themselves to go Dubya or Nader), would any reasonable person seriously question the validity of the election?

I doubt it.

Dec 7, 2004 - 10:49 am 37. Bryan C:

Yeah right. A cable faxed from a Kinko’s in Abilene to Kitty Kelly to the NY Times.

Well, yeah, but in this case it’s supposed to have been leaked from the CIA which lately has operated under screen-door-on-submarine security protocols.

Dec 7, 2004 - 11:28 am 38. Terrye:

Well to hear Putin tell it there can not be a valid election in Iraq so long as it is occupied.

Yeah right Vladimer and we all know how important valid elections are to you.

Dec 7, 2004 - 11:38 am 39. jerry:

The CIA has developed a culture that allows the violation of an employee’s security commitments for the purposes of influencing executive branch policy or legislative initiative. Although these latest series of leaks has been aimed at President Bush, they became standard long before the election of a Republican President.

It will take drastic action to restore the commitment to personal integrity in the Agency. If there was only one such violation in Stalin’s NKVD, the punishment would have gone far and wide to insure that the survivors got the message. We don’t live in that kind society but there is something that Porter Goss has authority to do. CIA employees are excepted service. They have very limited appeal rights and a clearance is a precondition of employment. The DCI should immediately dismiss all the Senior Intelligence Service (SIS) level employees because these senior leaders as a group are not fulfilling their responsibilities. Yes, fire the lot of them and find people with the integrity to do the job.

Draconian and unfair? Perhaps it is. However, the piecemeal approach to tracking down leaks isn’t working and doesn’t deter anyone. Something has to be done to impress on CIA employees that they will be held to historic standards for employment in the intelligence services.

Dec 7, 2004 - 11:43 am 40. Fresh Air:

Questions:

Was the New York Times quoting the same CIA station chief who led George Tenet to say “slam dunk” on WMDs?

Also, just how long has this Baghdad “station” been in operation, and when was the last time Joe Wilson stopped by for sweet mint tea?

Dec 7, 2004 - 12:06 pm 41. Sandy P:

Along w/Terrye’s comment, it doesn’t help when we say for what, 10 days or more, we’re coming, we’re coming.

Of course they got out of Dodge.

Didn’t the Army ever learn “loose lips sink ships?”

Couldn’t we just have “appeared” one night????

I know, I know, civilian casualties.

There had to be a better way.

Dec 7, 2004 - 12:10 pm 42. Bruce W.:

Sandy P

If you believe Debka (and in this instance I do), much of the planning of the Falluja offensive was actually focused on carefully (and rather secretly) narrowing the possible escape routes to force/funnel the fleeing Islanimals (or a decent percentage of them) to particular locations in nearby cities. I was glad to read this because I was also becoming infuriated at the amount of time spent on the “the red (white and blue) shirts are coming!”

Bottom line though is that as long as we’re dealing with life or death maneouvers, we will never be given a full picture of our troops’ plans (as it should be), and I, for one, would understand and condone it if a fair portion of what we do get is intentional misinformation.

BTW, A REQUEST: Can someone e-mail me with info on how to suggest topics to Roger without having to go off topic in a comment string? I’m at bruce_wechsler@adp.com . Much obliged.

Dec 7, 2004 - 1:16 pm 43. PeterUK:

Reminds me of the lyrics tp the old somg,

“I’ve danced with a man who danced with a girl who danced with the Prince of Wales”

Dec 7, 2004 - 2:32 pm 44. PeterArgus:

Well this slightly OT but since it is about Iraq and today is Dec. 7 I think it is a good antidote to the usual NYT doom-and-gloom. An absolutely incredible Vet Day 2004 picture of a an Iraqi war vet and a Pearl Harbor vet embracing. It is in the San Antonio Express-News. Here’s the link.

Sgt Graunke, the Marine in the picture, was a recipient of a Fallen Patriot grant and has been very active with the Fallen Patriot Fund as their web site shows.

I also found this moving story about the Sgt. Graunke’s mother.

Its funny how many of these stories do get reported but mostly in local newspapers rather than national papers like the NYT.

Dec 7, 2004 - 2:45 pm 45. chuck:

PeterArgus,

Its funny how many of these stories do get reported but mostly in local newspapers rather than national papers like the NYT.

I’ve noticed that too. In someways the local papers contain more news than the big city papers. They are closer to the ground and more likely to interview actual participants at length. The big papers seem to be above it all or conduct kiss and run quickie interviews.

Dec 7, 2004 - 3:05 pm 46. Terrye:

Sandy:

I am sure there is more method to the assault than we know. They may well have been watching the terrorists just see where they would go.

One thing is for sure the terrorists do not seem to want to mess with the American military, it is far more vulnerable Iraqis they go after now. That does not strike me as the way to win friends or support.

And I am with Jerry, fire the bastards. Maybe then they will shut the hell up.

Dec 7, 2004 - 4:14 pm 47. PeterUK:

I believe the KGB had more direct methods of downsizing,but they did have their uses.

http://www.acmi.fsbusiness.co.uk/html/ahmr0242.htm

Dec 7, 2004 - 4:31 pm 48. Nomorelies:

WHY DOES THE NYTIMES HATE AMERICA?

Actually, the more I ponder this the angrier I get. Just what the heck am I (a taxpaying citizen) paying for here? A CIA blabbermouth with buddies at the Al Jazerra network in print? Come to think of it, why do we have to put up with this kind of garbage another minute? When our security is jeopardized by a yahoo who thinks he/she is smarter than the government that I believe I have a dog in this hunt. I say the government should shackle that station chief in Baghdad and arrest the NYTimes reporter. Actually, freedom of the press does not include the right not to reveal sources and the sooner that little argument goes to the supreme court the better. I don’t believe in anonymous sources when that source is a federal employee whocan jeopardize my families security. Perhaps a few dozen of these reports should spend a few months in solitary pondering their treasonous behavior. I say hang ‘em. The NY Times disgusts me.

Dec 7, 2004 - 4:36 pm 49. John Moore ( Useful Fools ):

Regarding Fallujah

The MSM was recently grousing that an Army (I think) officer at Fallujah told them that the invasion of the town would start that day. It actually started a week later.

Reasonable sources (don’t remember which) reported that this was part of a disinformation effort aimed at the enemy.

Sometimes, even the MSM have value - for spreading disinformation to the enemy.

More often, they are spreading it to us.

————————-

The military is capable of amazing screw ups, which probably is one reason the most creative new curse words and phrases, not to mention the time worn ones, come from there.

But I would be surprised if this time they didn’t have very specific plans regarding people leaving Fallujah.

I suspect that a lot of sensor activity was focused on the area for quite a while before the attack. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are people still analyzing the resulting imagery, RF intercepts and whatever from that time to see who went where. And I wouldn’t be surprised if a few “who’s” had some consequent very unpleasant experiences.

I remember the conspiracy theories about the KAL shootdown by the Soviets. The conspiracists said the fact that we had signals intelligence from the fighter meant that we were specifically targetting that flight to listen in, because yada yada yada.

What they didn’t know, even though it’s obvious in retrospect, is that certain agencies record almost the entire electromagnetic spectrum in all sorts of places, and can then play it back if an interesting event happened.

Another example: a radio operator in my squadron broadcast a false MAYDAY (a very bad thing to do). The next day he was in cuffs. He hadn’t told anyone. I suspect someone played back some sensor data and did a signature analysis (the undercover ONI agent in our squadron was busy looking for druggies and wasn’t involved in this).

Dec 7, 2004 - 5:05 pm 50. Terrye:

John:

Didn’t the allies leak wrong information before DDay to throw the Germans off? LIi to the press so that they can lie to the enemy.

And I agree with you here. I think the military is up to alot we don’t know about and I don’t for one minute believe they just sit back and let those people go without a plan.

I just wish it would settle down over there.

But the press has a lot vested in Iraqi disaster so until and unless it is Paris on the Euphrates in Baghdad they are not going to let up.

Dec 7, 2004 - 6:21 pm 51. thibaud:

Remember, Pinch’s Gray Lady is just a lifestyle guide– no more, no less.

If you want info and insight on Iraq, skip Doug Jehl and go to Command Post or belmontclub.blogspot.com or rantburg.com.

Dec 8, 2004 - 9:39 am

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