27 Comments

1. Terrye:

Roger:

I live in a small town so our library is easy to get to.

It is a two story brick building in two styles, the first portion is typical of the Carnegie libraries at the turn of the 20th century and the most recent addition has more limestone and larger windows.

I go there often. I like the internet but there are some things I prefer a library for.

In fact when the state approved Hwy 169, corridor C through southern Indiana I went to the library and was able to get topographic maps for the highway.

In some ways small towns are nice.

Jan 1, 2005 - 12:23 pm 2. Maggie:

I live in a small town also, about 6000 people, and I have the absolutely good fortune to work in our library. It’s my dream job. I absolutely love it. It’s one of the oldest libraries in the state(az). We get a log of tourists here, and they all ooh and ahhh when they come in. You can check it out here:

http://cochise.lib.az.us/bisbee/history.htm

A picture of the outside is on the second page. We’re on the second and third floors, with the post office on the first.

Jan 1, 2005 - 1:17 pm 3. Patrick Tyson:

I like the architecture and art at the downtown (Los Angeles) library.

http://www.lapl.org/central/art_architecture.html

Happy New Year, folks.

Jan 1, 2005 - 1:23 pm 4. chuck:

Here is the library I grew up with in Lincoln, MA: link.

Jan 1, 2005 - 2:03 pm 5. Lola:

Looking at the Orozco murals, I have to say, what was he thinking, bemoaning the destruction of a civilization which was centered around human sacrifice which glorified killing of children whose hearts were torn out by priests trying to appease their bloodthirsty gods. Anyone ever wonder where these human sacrifices came from? And does anyone ever wonder how upset their relatives were, and that they might have been desperate for anything that would save them from becoming victims? There’s a reason why Cortez’ conquest was so swift – he very likely had assistance from these victims’ relatives.

Jan 1, 2005 - 2:31 pm 6. chuck:

Lola:

…ever wonder where these human sacrifices came from?

Mostly captives taken in war, I believe. The Aztecs were not well liked in the neighborhood. Perhaps someone here can speak to this?

Jan 1, 2005 - 2:37 pm 7. photoncourier.blogspot.com:

Discouraging kids from using the library is just plain irresponsible. One of the worst things about “educators” in our society is the extent to which they act as amplifiers of whatever is fashionable, rather than attempting to take a long-term perspective and dampen out the mood swings.

Jan 1, 2005 - 2:39 pm 8. Skookumchuk:

Although I still love the colors, I am not sure I would want to do much research there and I doubt I would want to work there.

Why are these prestigious public spaces so different than our private spaces? I’ve pondered this since I’ve been doodling ideas for a vacation – retirement getaway cabin someplace in Eastern Washington or elsewhere in the inland West. Who knows if or when it would be built, but hey, why not. And all my plans end up looking like a board and batten miner’s shack made into a rambler (with a pool) or a Frank Lloyd Wrightish low desert house (with a pool). Not very Koolhassian. Very few of us live in anything remotely Koolhaasian, regardless of our income or education levels. I’m no architectural historian, buy – why don’t we have subdivisions full of Koolhaas houses? It has been interesting on those few times when I’ve visited a person who lives in some architectural “statement” house. Some Richard Neutra creation in West LA or someplace. Can you really – really – keep a living room with three Barcelona chairs and a glass coffee table and nothing else in it for fifty years? Answer: No. There is always a considerable distance between the public space and the private space in any culture I suppose, but in our case it appears to have increased in the past century. So why do we put them up if we can’t imagine working in them?

Jan 1, 2005 - 4:16 pm 9. Terrye:

chuck:

I took a course in primitive cultures years ago and the Aztecs were a city state, but their capitol and larger than Madrid and had control over millions.

It is said the Conquistadors were almost overcome with the smell of old blood and were convinced they were dealing with evil. In fact the last king of the Aztecs was hanged by the Spanish.

Jan 1, 2005 - 4:16 pm 10. Skookumchuk:

The whole glorification of Aztec culture has been a deep tragedy for Mexico. As Mexico grew in the 19th Century, Spain was lost in civil war and decline. No Scottish Enlightenment there. The Aztec myth was a creation of the 30s, when Mexican intellectuals admired any of several European thugs – Lenin, Mussolini – and tried to build a socialist and nationalist society that swept the horrors of the Aztecs under the rug. Sometimes the parallels to Egypt, Greece and Rome got a bit fantastical. I once got in an argument with the wife of a Latin American diplomat over this whole tendency. “But the people need it” she said with a smile. It explains a lot.

Jan 1, 2005 - 4:35 pm 11. Rick Ballard:

Skookumchuk,

There may come a day when when enough laughter is generated by these architectural spoofs to drive them from existence but we aren’t there yet. Vexorg did a nice function critique (see first thread) that led to a good serie of photos. After looking at Roger’s pictures and then those, I decided to refrain from commenting as a courtesy to Roger. Now that Roger has reevaluated his initial position I feel free to say that if this farce isn’t the largest architectural fraud perpetuated lately it is certainly in the running.

I am particularly drawn to the use of the concept of an outsourced Bangalore customer service center that was used for the computer access area.

Do you think that the owner’s have any idea that they’ve been fleeced?

Jan 1, 2005 - 5:18 pm 12. Frederick:

A great thread. The Linonia & Brothers reading room. Old chairs with cracked green leather, one of the world’s most perfect places to nap. The Sterling Library. Janitors’ closets with paneled oak doors and above, carved in stone, coats of arms with crossed brooms and mops. I can’t imagine how anyone could be relaxed enough in the Seattle library to nod off. Or see anything that would soothe or amuse, rather than merely impress. But I certainly could sleep or smile in the Bizbee or Lincoln libraries. Great links. Doubtless in Terrye’s Indiana library too. The Seattle library people might want to check out Maggie’s library site for a potentially useful tip on preparing for the inevitable costs of repair. Koolhaas’s high, empty spaces might turn to be a blessing in disguise. The Bizbee library was able to defray some of its renovation costs by selling guano from bats in the attic.

Jan 1, 2005 - 6:11 pm 13. chuck:

Not very Koolhassian. Very few of us live in anything remotely Koolhaasian

That reminds me that I grew up in the town where Walter Gropius lived. His house didn’t look particularly strange from the outside — the school bus drove past it every day — but I was never inside. The last time I saw it, it looked a bit rundown and smaller than I remembered. I think tours are available now, so next time I am back that way I think I shall have a look and see what he chose as a living space.

P.S. One of Freud’s granddaughters lived up the street. The town, small and rural as it was, contained a surprising number of refugees. For you physicists, Debye’s granddaugters attended my highschool. Likewise decendents of Samuel Adams, but they kept a low profile and I only recall one, speaking eloquently in favor of continued funding of the town fourth of July fireworks (~$12,000) during a town meeting in a fever time of tax cutting.

Jan 1, 2005 - 6:13 pm 14. richard mcenroe:

Chuck ó they were called “flower battles”… every year the Aztecs would make war on their neighbors who didn’t already pay them a tribute of lives to capture sacrifices. They had special champions who were trained to dash out and cripple opponents, leaving them to be taken prisoner by the troops behind.

Jan 1, 2005 - 6:34 pm 15. chuck:

Sounds just lovely, Richard. Do you know if any of these good neighbors joined with the Spanish against the Aztecs?

Jan 1, 2005 - 6:40 pm 16. Skookumchuk:

chuck, richard:

Cortez had plenty of help in several tens of thousands of Tlaxcalan Indians who were kinda tired of being made human sacrifices. I’ve got a book I can’t find at the moment or find on Amazon either – “Five Letters to the King of Spain” by Cortez. The interesting thing is that the battle was really between tens of thousands of Aztecs and an equal or greater number of Tlaxcalans. Most combatants probably never saw a Spaniard at all. There must have been a whole series of battles planned and won by the Tlaxcalans that have been lost to history. Cortez and his 500 soldiers may have been taking advantage of the confusion more than anything.

And back on thread, I wonder if Le Corbusier ever lived in one of his “machines for living” or if he had a nice charming little whitewashed villa someplace.

Jan 1, 2005 - 7:02 pm 17. chuck:

Skookumchuk:

Here’s the home Corbusier built for his parents (if I read the french correctly), La “petite maison” de Le Corbusier ‡ Corseaux. Doesn’t look too awful, if a bit spare and rundown, perhaps a bit cheap: maybe there wasn’t much money. Then again, maybe he was cheap. Some whitewash and a bit of color would help a lot. I think I would take any of a number of Italian villas over this one.

Jan 1, 2005 - 7:45 pm 18. Skookumchuk:

chuck:

Thanks. I tried Googling to find photos in various places, but wading through the prose of the architectural academicians was akin to reading IRS forms or the fine print on an insurance policy, so I just gave up.

Jan 1, 2005 - 7:53 pm 19. Bostonian:

Lola: I saw an exhibit of Aztec artifacts many years ago, and everything seemed to revolve around human sacrifice.

My reaction was to think, “Well, I’m glad *they* are dead.”

Chuck: Cortez did indeed recruit from local enemies of the Aztec. There’s a bit about this in VDH’s book _Carnage and Culture_.

Jan 1, 2005 - 8:19 pm 20. Skookumchuk:

Well, I trashed the house (”Honey, what are you doing?”) and found the book:

Five Letters from Mexico, Collectors Reprints, Inc., Princeton, 1998.

Jan 1, 2005 - 8:25 pm 21. chuck:

OK,

I’ve spent more time looking at the pictures of Corbusier’s house and my opinion is going down. There are a few nice spaces, but with the exposed plumbing, sinks in closets, industrial looking washroom, cabinets pushed up against the walls, and the spaces between the inner walls and outer walls, I get a feeling of deja vu: it’s a slum dwelling by design.

Jan 1, 2005 - 8:29 pm 22. Skookumchuk:

Yeah, from there to Stalinist apartment blocks to Pruitt-Igoe seems just a few short steps.

Jan 1, 2005 - 8:41 pm 23. Michael Babbitt:

Welcome to the Seattle area Roger.I have live here 20 years now. It is a great area in many ways — forget politics, if you know what I mean.

I too was first impressed by the novelty of the Downtown Seattle Public Library but I felt a lingering coldness to it. It is too steely and glassy and the grayness of the interior was not inspiring to me or other friends of mine who deal with Seattle grayness all of the time. It just wasn’t fireplace homey and inviting. There are many bookstores that are better designed for book and research lovers. Too bad the term ‘modern’ now means some version of weird or unsettling.

Jan 1, 2005 - 10:58 pm 24. Tagore:

I’m doing research for a projected novel right now. The premise is fantastic, but based upon earthly history, and some well known historical actors. The internet is a great jumping off point, but I’m afraid that it still lacks the detail I need.

I am within subway distance of all the branches of the NYC library system, though. I would live in an agony of suspense if I had to rely on interlibrary loan- as I have had to in the past, researching other things, in less populated areas.

So I’m all for making the world’s libraries available online (tho I wonder how writers will make a living in that world). But until I can get the same stuff online that I can get in print, I will continue to rely on the magnificent library at Grand Army Plaza, just a hop, skip, and jump up the 2 and the 3 (so that’s why I pay the exorbitant rents here- I knew there was a reason), and on the main branch at fifth ave.

Jan 2, 2005 - 2:54 am 25. Fausta:

La “petite maison” de Le Corbusier ‡ Corseaux reminds me of this.

Here in Princeton the local public library building (a “modern style landmark”) was torn down and rebuilt at huge expense, and now the interior vaguely reminds you of Borders Bookstore. Services remain equally mediocre. If you want a good local library, you must pay $400/yr for membership at PU (unless you work/study at PU).

Jan 2, 2005 - 5:31 am 26. Vexorg:

Thanks for the plug Rick. I’ve linked the article again below for those who missed it. That said, it was written six months ago, although I do have to say that my opinion still stands. I had an overall favorable impression of the structure as a whole, but the “Spiral” in which the majority of the collection is kept had a very sterile, warehouse-like feel to it, mainly because of the exposed concrete floors. The clear bookshelves (which are supposed to be a distinctive feature) don’t do anything

That said, I really don’t spend much time in libraries around here these days. The King County Library system is very much an extension of the liberal establishment, constantly putting levies on the ballot for one frivolous thing or another (I don’t think I’ve ever seen a school or library levy not pass with at least 65% of the vote,) emphasizing multiculturalism to the point that some branches have larger foreign language collections than English, and in one case using library funds for the defense of someone suspected of using their facilities to distribute child pornography, as if it was a right of theirs to do so.

Jan 2, 2005 - 11:14 am 27. miriam's ideas:

For me it was the main library in Columbus, OH. I was 5 and I waas gobsmacked because the books were FREE. I still am–what a deal!

The first book I took out was the Wizard of Oz.

I never go anywhere without checking out all the local libraries. And yes, I’m a librarian.

The columbus llibrary re-entered my life when my mother lay near death in a hospital across the street. It provided me with respite and restored my soul.

Miriam

Jan 2, 2005 - 2:25 pm

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