Dennis Ross–the man who has devoted his life to Israeli/Palestinian peace–sees cause for optimism in this WaPo oped this morning. Ross recently journeyed to Gaza where he spoke in front of the leadership. For the first time, he saw Palestinians publicly taking responsibility for their actions.
As someone who probably dealt with Yasser Arafat more than any non-Palestinian, I can safely say that Palestinian responsibility was never on his agenda. Arafat made being a victim a strategy, not just a condition, and thus Palestinians were entitled, never responsible. Yet, here in Gaza, no one challenged those Palestinians who raised questions about their responsibilities. And while most of the comments directed to me were about America’s responsibility to right the wrongs done to the Palestinians, some in the audience picked up my challenge to recognize that the United States could help the Palestinians only if they were prepared to fulfill their obligations, particularly on security. Indeed, when I declared that there would be no Palestinian state born of violence — with the leading proponents of that violence sitting there — several Palestinians responded by saying that violence was a mistake and nothing would be achieved by it.
What struck me about these comments was that there was no hesitancy to make them. With the opposition sitting there, with the entire conference being conducted in Arabic and televised throughout the Middle East, declaring that violence against the Israelis was wrong bore no stigma and apparently little risk. Declaring that Palestinians had responsibilities to fulfill was also treated as legitimate, not sacrilegious.
Some day someone should do a study of politicians who “play the victim.” I think it will be shown to be about as fruitful as family members who do the same. Meanwhile, let’s hope Ross is not just being optimistic.
UPDATE: The Big Trunk is more wary of Ross’s article than I am. It’s easy to see BT’s point, but then Ross is a diplomat. It’s his job to move things forward. It’s our job to make sure Ross’s optimism is more than self-delusion. In any case, Ross does conclude in this manner:
Palestinians who believe in ending violence and in coexistence failed to deliver in the summer of 2003, when Abbas was prime minister. He and the reformers will shortly have a second chance. If they fail this time, they won’t get a third.
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20 Comments
1. chuck:Some day someone should do a study of politicians who “play the victim.”
VRWC, anyone. One of the things that has struck me about Bush is that he doesn’t complain or even bitch much. We here do our share of bitching, but I don’t think we seek the sympathy due poor little victims. On the other hand, the Democratic party seems to have passed beyond bitching into the sorry land of victimhood: all that stuff about stolen elections. They feel sorry for themselves, everyone has been so mean and just so, so, stupid. Boo Hoo. It’s pathetic.
Jan 2, 2005 - 8:59 am 2. David Thomson:I am very optimistic about peace between Israel and the Palestinians. This is merely another domino falling. Yasser Arafat was perhaps the number one reason why the violence persisted for so long. He is now dead and thereís nobody anywhere near as ìcharismaticî to replace him. Secondly, John Kerry failed to be elected president of the United States. We would be facing a horrible situation had he become our commander-in-chief. Kerry ran the most not so subtle anti-Israel campaign perhaps in American history.
Israel must continue putting up the wall—and killing the militants. Little can be accomplished as long as the Palestinian thugs continue to intimidate the moderates. Lastly, we are best to ignore silly people like Dennis Ross. He is part of the problem, and offers little in the way of a solution. Ross and his elitist buddies just love their long winded discussions and useless written agreements. We have better things to do.
Jan 2, 2005 - 9:06 am 3. Cynic:Then there is this from LGF
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=14168_Abu_Mazen-_No_Crackdown_on_Terror#comments
and this
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=14171_Unclear_on_the_Concept_of_Peace
A pity Dennis Ross doesn’t watch Israel’s TV channels 10 and 22 for real live action and words from the “horses mouth”.
Someone should have been watching Mazen’s visit to Jenin and Zubeidi’s show of force which even intimidated Mazen’s security guys.
Also interesting to know who was translating for Ross.
Jan 2, 2005 - 9:58 am 4. TmjUtah:I think that it’s possible either Syria or Iraq or possibly both will undergo regime change before June.
Whichever thug floats to the top of the current Pal power struggle will not have the cult following that allowed Arafat to prosper in failure. We’re going to see a gang war over dwindling resources that will lead to the collapse of any pretence of organized political structure in Gaza and the West Bank. Pal socieity is so dysfunctional I have no clue what steps will lead to stability.
Think of the anecdotes about what happened here when cities tried to get out of the public housing projects disaster by signing ownership over to the tenants; there were transition classes that included topics such as “don’t throw your used diapers over the balcony railing” and “If you drop cinderblocks on the police they’ll stop coming to calls”. The Pals have been living in The Projects for about four generations now.
Many of the worst projects were simply demolished in the end. Better to scrape the ground clean and start over than to continue reinforcing failure. That’s not an option here.
I think the Fence was a damned good idea.
Jan 2, 2005 - 10:24 am 5. Richard Nieporent:I have reposted this on the correct thread.
And while most of the comments directed to me were about America’s responsibility to right the wrongs done to the Palestinians, some in the audience picked up my challenge to recognize that the United States could help the Palestinians only if they were prepared to fulfill their obligations, particularly on security. Indeed, when I declared that there would be no Palestinian state born of violence — with the leading proponents of that violence sitting there — several Palestinians responded by saying that violence was a mistake and nothing would be achieved by it.
You are grasping at straws. Just because a few people are willing to not be totally deluded, doesn’t mean that the Palestinians understand that violence is not the answer to their problem. Also, just remember who Dennis Ross worked for. Did he accomplish anything positive in all the time he was the US Middle East envoy?
Jan 2, 2005 - 11:06 am 6. David Thomson:ìAlso, just remember who Dennis Ross worked for. Did he accomplish anything positive in all the time he was the US Middle East envoy?î
It is fair to describe Dennis Ross as a man who made things far worse. The not so subtle message sent to the self pitying and whiny Palestinians was that they are victims of Western imperialism. How can you blame them? In some ways, terrorist acts are justified. Ross and his cohorts listened to quasi-Marxists like Edward Said and ignored the wisdom of Bernard Lewis.
Jan 2, 2005 - 11:23 am 7. Terrye:I have my doubts but one can always hope.
I do think that all things come to an end and this situation between the Pals and the Israelis may have played itself out…but does that mean the future will be better or worse?
I would feel better if the Pals had a desire to build a better life for themselves and their families, it seems that all they care about is killing Jews.
Ain’t much future in that.
Jan 2, 2005 - 12:04 pm 8. Charlie (Colorado):Aw, jeez, folks, is everyone still hung over from New Year’s or something?
First off, for the people who think Dennis Ross was a willing participant in the debacle that followed Oslo, listen to him talk about it some time. Within the limits of dimplomatic reserve, he’s still just seething at Arafat for the double-cross he pulled on everyone. Yes, he might have guessed that Arafat would deal from the bottom, but it would take a special kind of perfidy to double-cross someone who just got you as good a deal as Oslo was. (Unfortunately, Arafat had a special talent for perfidy.) But long before the SOB finally died, Ross was being real clear that he didn’t think any deal with Arafat could work, and he always said that security for Israel was the one certain thing any deal had to provide.
Second, abu Masen has to deal with the Hamas and al Fatah nutcases, just as any Democrat president would have to deal somehow with Michael Moore and the DU nutcases. But abu Masen and most everyone else in Palestinian politics has said — in TV and newspaper ads, under their own names — that the Intifada is not in the Palestinians’ best interests. Yes, he’s still arguing for the “right of return” and sole control of Jerusalem, but he is saying ’stop the bombings’ and having some effect. (The only big violence I’ve heard of recently was in Gaza, which the PLA doesn’t really much control, and it’s all been of a more or less ‘military’ kind.)
Add a PA that doesn’t distribute big checks to exploding Palestinians to the fence, and we could have a way to get along for a good while.
And third, Yasser Arafat is still dead.
There’s plenty of cause for optimism.
Jan 2, 2005 - 12:55 pm 9. Cynic:Another thought is whether Dennis Ross is optimistic about the religious side in the Palestinian equation.
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/oct04/marcus.htm
“Twice in three days, PA religious leaders have openly called for the genocide of Jews. Broadcast on official PA TV, both called for the murder of Jews until the Jewish people are annihilated. Both presented the killing of Jews not merely as the will of Allah, but also as a necessary stage in history that should be carried out now. To support these mandatory killings, both cited the same Hadith – Islamic tradition attributed to Mohammed – expressing Allah’s will that Muslims will kill Jews, before the “Hour” of Resurrection.”
This was recorded at the end of September 2004; but every Friday the same songs are sung.
The responsibilty that some Palestinians are admitting to does not overide their “responsibilty” to fullfilling Allah’s will!
The reality in Gaza changes when Ross leaves the scene and the thugs return.
Jan 2, 2005 - 12:59 pm 10. David Thomson:ìFirst off, for the people who think Dennis Ross was a willing participant in the debacle that followed Oslo, listen to him talk about it some time.î
I have repeatedly listened to Dennis Ross—and thatís why I speak about him in such a harsh manner. My remarks are not flippant. The bottom line is this: the Palestinians indulge in self pitying, Marxist ìvictimî rhetoric. Their arguments against Israel are mostly nonsensical and border on the ludicrous. Ross, and I think he did this subconsciously, bought into the myth that the Israelis are just as guilty for the violence as the Palestinians. A subtle moral equivalency entered into the negotiating process. This resulted in a disaster.
“And third, Yasser Arafat is still dead.
There’s plenty of cause for optimism.”
Agreed. Nobody else is as famous or charasmatic as Arafat. This evil man almost single handedly prevented peace in the region. I now expect the situation between the Israeli and the Palestinians to greatly improve.
Jan 2, 2005 - 1:21 pm 11. Ron Wrght:Roger and All:
HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!
FREEDOM FREEDOM FREEDOM
This is the answer in this war of ideologies. Just posted this to the HSPIG Forums Section.
*****
[...]
here’s a piece that cuts to the central core of why Islamofascism is a failed ideology. This is the key to ultimately winning this war. After all this is a war of ideologies, ideas, culture, religion, and the free will and universal rights (inalienable) of men and women.
*****
January 02, 2005
American Pie – America’s war against aggressive fundamentalist Islam
Osama’s Second Worst Nightmare
Finally-a column from Ralph Peters that doesn’t repeat things he’s already said over and over. I was beginning to despair of reading any new analysis from him.
December 29, 2004 — MONDAY’S message from Osama bin Laden told us what he fears: a vote.
Condemning any Iraqi who goes to the polls as an infidel, the terror master hopes to derail the elections. He knows that every ballot cast is a defeat.
Anyone who dismisses the importance of the upcoming Iraqi elections need only listen to Monsieur bin Laden’s urgent plea for a boycott. Osama praised the atrocities of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a hands-on executioner, and welcomed his collaboration in efforts to block the balloting.
Islamic terrorists distrust the common people. They dread the strength of those who might think for themselves. Convinced that men and women must be governed fiercely from above, the terrorists are the gory religious incarnation of thousands of years of tyranny. Their god is a savage dictator in the clouds.
[...]
Read More
*****
Off thread – but related to this convenant by the people with those who they choose to govern and the MSM responsibility to function as a watchdog so the people can hold acccountable those who they choose to govern.
For those interested in the detective medical mystery thriller that isn’t fictional that I teased here several days ago, here’s more.
What was the causal factor of Gulf War Syndrome? Entrenched gov’t DOD bureaurcrats may not be telling the, “Whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth.”
Follow the discussion on Gary Matsumoto’s new book, “Vaccine-A,” over at the Winds of Change Blog.
Link Here
Jan 2, 2005 - 1:27 pm 12. Ron Wrght:Sorry for all the bolding. My coding screwed up when I tried tto put in the WOC Link.
Here’s the link to the WOC discussion.
Link Here
Ron Wright
Jan 2, 2005 - 1:32 pm 13. WichitaBoy:The great irony of human progress is that the better we make the world the less capable we ourselves become. Students who grow up with calculators have weaker math skills than those who lack them. People who ride their bikes to work have better physiques than those who drive.
So in the moral arena. For those of us born in the West post-WWII, growing up with the Beach Boys and the Beatles, the word “genocide” is entirely beyond our personal ken. It refers to nothing in our experience, a reference without a referent. The concept of one group virulently hating another and using that hatred as their raison d’etre–is inconceivable. The mind boggles. This is why “Bush = Hitler”: absolutely the worst thing the modern mind can imagine is a political leader who doesn’t agree with us, who does not intend to immediately implement our own personal agenda. Since everyone knows Hitler was as bad as it gets, this must be the same thing. The same mental saturation occurs in both cases.
However, the necessity of survival dictates a certain adherence to reality, even an incomprehensible reality. Many of the Palestinians, perhaps most, and many Arabs and even Muslims as far away as Malaysia, want to kill all the Jews and all the Americans. Or they think they do, which amounts to the same thing in the end. We ignore this at our mortal peril.
Jan 2, 2005 - 2:30 pm 14. thedragonflies:“Arafat made being a victim a strategy, not just a condition, and thus Palestinians were entitled, never responsible.î
This is the heart of the whole enchilada, isn’t it? Nothing improves in Palestine until the Palestinians take responsibility and stop pretending to be victims, and stop using victimhood to claim special entitlement status.
Gee, doesn’t this sound familiar to American ears? Political strategy of being a victim and using victimhoos to claim entitlements? Sounds suspiciously like one of the major political parties in the U.S. How is it working out for them, I wonder? Winning big elections anywhere lately?
Jan 2, 2005 - 2:41 pm 15. Terrye:Wichita Boy:
I agree. So many of the people who indulge in the hysteria about Bush are obviously unaware of the fact that if Bush were indeed Hitler they would be lampshades. And by the same token the fact that the jihadis can not take over the world will not stop them from trying…like their fellow travellers on the left they see only what their hatred and prejudice has programmed them to see.
I do think that the sight of fellow Musims being murdered in Iraq has had some impact. When the dead were all Jews or infidels it was not so bad, but this…..is something different.
And you know as time passes I think many ordinary people wonder if they really want to die for the likes of Osama or Zarqawi.
But it only takes a few to really screw things up. And as for the evil taught in the schools and fostered in the culture, that will never be overcome until people are prepared to leave it behind. And it seems to me that Islam is not conducive to change.
Jan 2, 2005 - 3:54 pm 16. Promethea:Wishful thinking? Deja vue all over again? A lot will have to change before I expect to see much progress in Israel and “Palestine.” In the 1990s, I was a hopeful believer in the power of kindness and human contacts. Since that time I’ve learned much about taqiyya, hudna, the Treaty of Hudibayyah, and other Arab/Islamic stuff. Therefore, I believe NOTHING the Palestinians say about anything.
Jan 2, 2005 - 4:09 pm 17. Jim Rockford:I am not optimistic, myself.
While Arafat was a *bad* leader, in one sense you can’t blame him for not wanting to be Michael Collins. No major political force inside the PA or the Palestinian community was willing to make the Collins half-a-loaf deal; and Arafat was not willing to risk death to make that argument.
PA TV, radio, and newspapers all spew the very worst sorts of anti-Semitic filth, suicide bombers are praised, and Abu Mazen and other candidates have all embraced continuous terrorism as a means to victory, which is defined as a single Palestinian state replacing the Israeli one.
Unless and until the Palestinian people themselves and their political organizations embrace a two state solution, the best that can hoped for is a cold truce ala Egypt and Israel. Arafat no longer standing the way makes at least a cold truce possible, but there is not the neccessary conditions for a real peace deal.
Sadly, the Palestinians probably need a clear and catastrophic military defeat of massive proportions to dispel the fantasy that “just more terror” will make the nation of Israel just up and move to the US or Europe, which seems to be the major political calculation of all Palestinian organizations and society itself.
Jan 2, 2005 - 5:00 pm 18. Kevin P:Roger:
I would love to be optimistic but recent history has made me wary. The fact that Arafat is dead and their has been some positive noise coming from the rump PLO I can never forget that Arafat promised the end of violence as a solution and we know what a lie that was.
This does not mean we should not try to heal the open wound that is the Palestinian- Israeli conflict but we must do it realistically. We must let Israel defend itself and not listen to the “honest broker ” garbage from the American left. Israel is not perfect but until Palestinian actions match the occasional good words we must hold fast. Just as Kerry was both for the security fence and against it the Palestinians have shown an amazing ability to conduct war and peace at the same time and speak peace in English and war in Arabic at the same time.
Jan 2, 2005 - 6:13 pm 19. Terrye:I just think the young men with ski masks and guns would rather terrorize people than work. Work is boring and such a drag.
Jan 2, 2005 - 6:22 pm 20. Mike_Nargizian:The Big Trunk link goes to Ross’s article as well. Please fix that link I’d like to read his analysis.
Thanks.
Jan 3, 2005 - 11:21 am