21 Comments

1. richard mcenroe:

Oh, I gotta disagree with Teachout. Hell, over at LGF they’ve got a whole thread trading Carson quotes.

Jan 23, 2005 - 5:44 pm 2. Charlie (Colorado):

Probably the celebrity death that makes me feel oldest, althogh it turns out that Carson was only six months younger than my own father. But I thought his monologues were the funniest thing ever when I was an insomniac 11 year old, and continued until he quit.

Both Letterman and Leno better hope his estate doesn’t sell the rights to rebroadcast the shows in the old time slot; a 25 year old Carson show would wipe them both out, even now.

Jan 23, 2005 - 5:47 pm 3. Brian O'Connell:

Teachout’s definitely missing something.

Jan 23, 2005 - 5:56 pm 4. PeterUK:

From what little I saw of Johnny Carson,he did exactly what a good host should do,he didn’t over power his guests.

Jan 23, 2005 - 5:56 pm 5. PSGInfinity:

Johnny definitely had that Greta Garbo thing going, in that when he walked away, he left stardom behind. A classy move from a classy guy.

Jan 23, 2005 - 6:26 pm 6. Patrick Tyson:

Johnny Carson did more to nurture and promote comedy and comedians than any other person, perhaps, in history…

…and he would have been great as the Waco Kid in Blazing Saddles. Would that Mel Brooks could have gotten him to do it.

I’ll always remember the grace with which he brought an end to his career in the spotlight and to his words to John Wayne at the end of the 1979 Academy Awards ceremony when Wayne, dying of cancer, presented the Best Picture Oscar to The Deer Hunter crowd (they ignored him): “Your friends would like to say hello” (or words to that effect.)

And, of course, there’s always:

I didn’t even know you were Jewish.

Jan 23, 2005 - 6:35 pm 7. richard mcenroe:

For more clueless reviewers, Ebert and Roeper just reviewed Assault on Precinct 13 without once mentioning it was a remake…

Jan 23, 2005 - 6:37 pm 8. mike:

The thing that Teachout misses about Carson is class, Johnny had lot of it and Teachout has none of it.

Jan 23, 2005 - 7:00 pm 9. Terrye:

I remember when Jimmy Stewart went on Johnny’s show and read his poem, a tribute to his dog.

Johnny was blinking back tears by the time he finished.

Jimmy Stewart and Johnny Carson. They really truly don’t make men like that anymore.

Jan 23, 2005 - 7:14 pm 10. richard mcenroe:

Johnny Carson and Jack Webb ó The Copper Clapper Caper

Jan 23, 2005 - 7:17 pm 11. Roberts:

I am very sorry Teachout felt the need to write that post. It was beneath him.

Today’s viewer doesn’t understand the strengths of Johnny Carson because modern “entertainment” has lost touch with many of the signal values of someone like Carson. Find a comedian from the era who won’t happily admit a debt to Carson in terms of Carson’s generosity with sharing his stage to new and upcoming talent.

In interviewing, few of today’s talk show hosts understand anything except using guests to do their own riffs. Johnny Carson had a way of making a guest, no matter how boring, seem like an interesting person. For an example of how a talk show host can make an interesting person seem boring, watch Larry King.

Johnny Carson had a unique comedic talent. Carson didn’t use the funniest material in the world, instead he had a skill to deliver less than stellar material and get an audience to laugh at it. Teachout makes contrasts Allen and Paar to Carson, but both Allen and Paar gave up the desk after only a fraction of the years that Carson held it. If Carson ran out of steam his last few years, it should have been Teachout’s place to be astounded at just how long Carson kept up the good work.

Jan 23, 2005 - 7:40 pm 12. Wallace:

It’s to bad that those who are of “a younger age” than those of us of a “certain age” can’t realize the power and influence that Carson had on us.

When I was a teenager in the mid 60’s there were only 3 TV channels in our area and what a thrill it was to be able to stay up late on Friday nights to watch Johnny…..urbane, witty and sophisticated in a way that we teenagers in West Texas aspired to be. What memories of watching with several of my closest friends. Thanks Johnny!

Jan 23, 2005 - 8:26 pm 13. Charlie (Colorado):

I’m watching the MSNBC highlights right now, and I like to hurt myself laughing. Again.

Jan 23, 2005 - 8:39 pm 14. TedN:

Rather mean spirited, or perhaps clueless, I thought. For a rather better appreciation, see Mark Evanier’s post at:

http://www.newsfromme.com/

To me, Carson was always funniest when a joke in the monologue died, and he was digging his way back out. My absolute favorite Carson moment,though, came from a segment where after reading a list of new laws, he ventured into those (fictional) new laws that hadn’t made the list. One was:

In the future, it will be illegal to say ‘Abe Lincoln could turn his head around like a big ol owl’

This was so totally unexpected and bizarre that my college roomate and I practically fell off our cots laughing. I think it may have been the only time I laughed until it really hurt. Why was it so funny? It’s hard to say just looking at it, but that was part of Carson’s talent.

Jan 23, 2005 - 8:42 pm 15. Brian:

That Teachout’s a real bonehead, even for a critic; how the blogosphere came to love him so is beyond me.

He pulled the same rubbish when Brando died - he wasn’t so great, really, just an actor after all.

Dip.

Note that his entire assessment of Carson is built around a bit of half-assed mind-wandering speculation he did while sitting in the audience at a play when he was supposed to be paying attention:

“I asked myself, How many people in this theater recognize the man on the screen? Not many, I fear.”

I wonder how many vacuous questions Terry Teachout has answered to his own satisfaction, while nevertheless getting it entirely wrong? A great many, I fear.

It’s almost Olive Garden-esque in its lack of seriousness.

Jan 23, 2005 - 11:04 pm 16. richard mcenroe:

Lileks on Carson Much more to the point.

Jan 24, 2005 - 7:55 am 17. Percy Dovetonsils:

I admire and enjoy reading Teachout for his calling out the NY theatre industry on their smug groupthink, but I agree that he’s missing the boat with this obituary.

Johnny Carson helped define comic timing for a couple of generations of Americans. I certainly know I learned how to tell a joke from him. While there are some specific lines that we’ll remember (I’ll always know what to do when I come to the famous “Slaussen cutoff”) what was really important was his overall ability to deliver a joke, whether as a part of a monologue or as a conversational aside. He really served as a role model for humor - hell, for panache - among American males of a certain age.

Plus, I’ll always respect the man for his retiring and staying retired. There’s nothing sadder than an old celeb (or athlete, for that matter) who just can’t go gracefully into the good night.

(Incidentally, the thought that there are kids in my office who really have no notion of how big Johnny Carson was just makes me feel so very, very old…)

Jan 24, 2005 - 8:51 am 18. Charlie (Colorado):

I wonder how many vacuous questions X has answered to his own satisfaction, while nevertheless getting it entirely wrong? A great many, I fear.

You know, that’s one of the things that has struck me for years, not about Teachout per se, but more generally about many pundits and politicians: they don’t seem to have an error-correction loop. “Does what I’m saying make sense? Does it fit with anything anyone else has thought? Is it at all consistent with other things I’ve said, and if not, what changed? Are my predictions borne out by later events?”

Jan 24, 2005 - 9:32 am 19. rastajenk:

I was wondering this morning who the future dead American “icons” will be. Individuals like Bob Hope, whose longevity connects vaudeville with early Hollywood with television; or Jimmy Stewart or John Wayne (movies) or Lucille Ball (tv); Elvis, of course (rocknroll) and Reagan (politics); and now Carson….they mainstreamed new technologies and are forever linked with their mediums or messages in ways that aren’t as available, seems to me, to current means of expression. Thirty or forty years or more hence, will the passing of Drudge or some other internet pioneer be noted thusly? Possible, but difficult to imagine. Will hiphop kings and grunge gods and American Idols be remembered long into the future? Doubt it. O’Reilly, or Rather, or Chris Matthews? Hah!

I’m not suggesting there aren’t great talents out there worth of icon-ness (Spielberg, Hanks, Robin Williams, Tiger Woods come to mind), but I’m not sure that just being on top of each one’s game for long periods of time is enough to elevate them into the American Hall of Fame. There needs to be a strong connection with something new, and new things seem to cycle too quickly for long-term stardom these days. The digital world is increasingly faceless.

Jan 24, 2005 - 10:52 am 20. Steve:

Roger -

I haven’t the energy, or the talent, to best some of the comments above. I was disappointed that you had nothing to say, being a showbiz guy yourself.

Did you know Mr. Carson? How would you place him within the show business establishment in terms of character and achievement? We know the public side of the man, but because you are behind the stage, so to speak, you might be able to offer some insight unavailable to us.

I think Johnny Carson was an important man in a way that other major celebrities, Katherine Hepburn, for example, are not. It has something to do with the comment that has been made to the effect that he was the Walter Cronkite of comedy. He provided a center, in terms of human behavoir, at least for many years of his program. I think this relates to the many comments about “class” that have been made about him.

Steve

Jan 24, 2005 - 1:44 pm 21. Eric Deamer:

I think Treachout had it about right. I was a little kid for most of the time Carson was on, but I never remember him saying anything particularly funny, either in monologues or interviews. I remember laughing at the silly little bits he did, like the Great Carnac, but maybe that was mostly because I was so young that the mostly simple-minded humor was up my alley. It seemed he was made to be a talk show host and no more than that. He was smooth, unflappable, likeable, and not particularly interesting.

Jan 24, 2005 - 11:17 pm

Write a Comment

Name:	(required, displayed)
Email:	(required, not publicized)
URL:	(optional, displayed) remember personal info?
Comments: