Comments on: The Sharm Four – An Extraordinary Post from Debka http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/ Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog Fri, 27 Nov 2009 04:06:23 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Otter http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37768 Otter Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:52:59 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37768 Ann: <i>I heard a lot of talk a couple of years ago about a Turkey-Israel alliance. I don't know where that stands, but if Turkey would join up to the 4, it would be great.</i> Turkey and Israel are still on pretty friendly terms -- the Islamist party now in power has cooled things off a bit, but more in terms of talk than in real-world actions. That said, Turkey isn't especially relevant here as 1) it's a long way away, 2) they have no major Palestinian connection and 3) they're not Arabs. Ann:

I heard a lot of talk a couple of years ago about a Turkey-Israel alliance. I don’t know where that stands, but if Turkey would join up to the 4, it would be great.

Turkey and Israel are still on pretty friendly terms — the Islamist party now in power has cooled things off a bit, but more in terms of talk than in real-world actions.

That said, Turkey isn’t especially relevant here as 1) it’s a long way away, 2) they have no major Palestinian connection and 3) they’re not Arabs.

]]> By: OJ http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37767 OJ Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:58:42 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37767 The idea of an alliance of sort between Israel, Jordan, Palestine and Egypt is at first sight implausible. Yet when you account for the shifting political tide in the region and consider that the opposing pact, Syria and Iran, do not make for good alternatives the thought seems less radical. Stranger alliances have emerged in Europe and former enemies with the US are now our staunchest supporters. This is probably not a relationship which will blossom in the next year or two. The work done now may, however, lay a foundation for extending military and intelligence as well as financial cooperation over the next decade. I would assume that Iraq will indeed be included. Should this emerge as pseudo-alliance, Kuwait will probably also join. Interesting topic! www.RightViews.com The idea of an alliance of sort between Israel, Jordan, Palestine and Egypt is at first sight implausible. Yet when you account for the shifting political tide in the region and consider that the opposing pact, Syria and Iran, do not make for good alternatives the thought seems less radical. Stranger alliances have emerged in Europe and former enemies with the US are now our staunchest supporters.

This is probably not a relationship which will blossom in the next year or two. The work done now may, however, lay a foundation for extending military and intelligence as well as financial cooperation over the next decade. I would assume that Iraq will indeed be included. Should this emerge as pseudo-alliance, Kuwait will probably also join.

Interesting topic!

http://www.RightViews.com

]]> By: Knucklehead http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37766 Knucklehead Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:51:50 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37766 Pat, Last we him he was headed off to chat with France2. I'm thinkin' DGSE here. Pat,

Last we him he was headed off to chat with France2. I’m thinkin’ DGSE here.

]]> By: Pat Curley http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37765 Pat Curley Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:31:20 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37765 Rog, no posts for the last two days? Hope you haven't been laid low by this doggone flu bug that has hit Hugh Hewitt, John Hinderaker and me? Rog, no posts for the last two days? Hope you haven’t been laid low by this doggone flu bug that has hit Hugh Hewitt, John Hinderaker and me?

]]> By: Matt Evans http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37764 Matt Evans Fri, 11 Feb 2005 11:28:39 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37764 The seeming lack of interest about this by posters indicates to me one thing- we don't trust the Arab world. We've heard the BS and the platitudes and the promises from the PLO, from Saudi Arabia, from Egypt, from Syria and what do we have to show for it ? What does Israel have to show for it ? Dead citizens and huge amounts of money spend to hunt down and confront radical islam, state sponsored or otherwise. The fact that over a billion tax dollars is paid to the egyptians to keep them friendly chafes my ass everytime I think about it. I heard yesterday we'll be donating 40 million dollars to the Palestinians- and for what ? So they won't kill Jews. The governments in the middle east care only for staying in power. Does anybody truly believe that any coalition of Arab nations will truly work for peace with Israel and the rest of the world ? The seeming lack of interest about this by posters indicates to me one thing- we don’t trust the Arab world. We’ve heard the BS and the platitudes and the promises from the PLO, from Saudi Arabia, from Egypt, from Syria and what do we have to show for it ? What does Israel have to show for it ? Dead citizens and huge amounts of money spend to hunt down and confront radical islam, state sponsored or otherwise.

The fact that over a billion tax dollars is paid to the egyptians to keep them friendly chafes my ass everytime I think about it. I heard yesterday we’ll be donating 40 million dollars to the Palestinians- and for what ? So they won’t kill Jews.

The governments in the middle east care only for staying in power. Does anybody truly believe that any coalition of Arab nations will truly work for peace with Israel and the rest of the world ?

]]> By: Bruce W. http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37763 Bruce W. Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:27:55 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37763 The most important thing was to get that first meeting done. It served a similar purpose as the surprise transfer of power from the CPA in Iraq last summer. Get it done, without incident, and move on from there. Handshakes are important, even more so when the world has not been taking odds for days before hand on whether the parties would dare do so or not. Although some level of U.S. involvement is key to long term success here, it's physical presence will hardly ever be. Setting aside for a moment that Arafat may never have been able to bring himslef to a peace deal, one of Clinton's big mistakes was thinking that his presence would make the feuding Semites "play nice." Sadat and Begin had much of their historic deal in place before their coming out party with Jimmy...that treaty being the result of private meetings between serious parties. While certainly not as super-private, I hope Tuesday's meeting was indeeed the beginning of seriousness. The most important thing was to get that first meeting done. It served a similar purpose as the surprise transfer of power from the CPA in Iraq last summer. Get it done, without incident, and move on from there. Handshakes are important, even more so when the world has not been taking odds for days before hand on whether the parties would dare do so or not.

Although some level of U.S. involvement is key to long term success here, it’s physical presence will hardly ever be. Setting aside for a moment that Arafat may never have been able to bring himslef to a peace deal, one of Clinton’s big mistakes was thinking that his presence would make the feuding Semites “play nice.”

Sadat and Begin had much of their historic deal in place before their coming out party with Jimmy…that treaty being the result of private meetings between serious parties. While certainly not as super-private, I hope Tuesday’s meeting was indeeed the beginning of seriousness.

]]> By: Kyda Sylvester http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37762 Kyda Sylvester Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:44:10 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37762 <i><blockquote>The key to this unique event was embodied in President George W. Bush's directive Thursday night, February 3, to secretary of state Condoleezza Rice, not to show up at the Middle East summit. The European Union followed her lead, as did Arab leaders who planned to attend...</blockquote></i> Is it just me or do the Bushies seem to have a real knack for this stuff? Doe anyone know when Mubarak extended the invitation to Sharon? Was it before or after the SOTU?
The key to this unique event was embodied in President George W. Bush’s directive Thursday night, February 3, to secretary of state Condoleezza Rice, not to show up at the Middle East summit. The European Union followed her lead, as did Arab leaders who planned to attend…

Is it just me or do the Bushies seem to have a real knack for this stuff?

Doe anyone know when Mubarak extended the invitation to Sharon? Was it before or after the SOTU?

]]> By: Kevin P http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37761 Kevin P Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:17:18 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37761 Roger: My thought on the whole ME situation is that anything is possible, both bad or good. There is no way to know the true intentions of the major players and whether these peace feelers are realistic or if they are just a temporary pause in the war. So I am hopefull but extremely cautious. I find it funny that all this is happening without a formal mega summit or a formal middle east envoy. We were told by most of the experts that President Bush was not paying attention to the problem and that he needed to try to copy the failed Camp David model. Whether peace breaks out is anyone's guess but I strongly feel that President Bush's refusal to bend to the MSM cries to copy the Clinton model and his steadfast refusal to deal with Arafat sent a strong message to the Palestinians that they could not count on playing the same double game of signing accords and using the American political system to avoid responsibilities for crushing Hamas. Bush set firm goals for peace and then had the self control to not intefere with the self defense operations of Israel. I think this sent a message to the Palestinians that they had to get off their butt or Bush was going to let them stew in their own misery. The game isn't over but it seems the pattern of big summit followed by big dissapointment is over. Roger:

My thought on the whole ME situation is that anything is possible, both bad or good. There is no way to know the true intentions of the major players and whether these peace feelers are realistic or if they are just a temporary pause in the war. So I am hopefull but extremely cautious.

I find it funny that all this is happening without a formal mega summit or a formal middle east envoy. We were told by most of the experts that President Bush was not paying attention to the problem and that he needed to try to copy the failed Camp David model. Whether peace breaks out is anyone’s guess but I strongly feel that President Bush’s refusal to bend to the MSM cries to copy the Clinton model and his steadfast refusal to deal with Arafat sent a strong message to the Palestinians that they could not count on playing the same double game of signing accords and using the American political system to avoid responsibilities for crushing Hamas. Bush set firm goals for peace and then had the self control to not intefere with the self defense operations of Israel. I think this sent a message to the Palestinians that they had to get off their butt or Bush was going to let them stew in their own misery. The game isn’t over but it seems the pattern of big summit followed by big dissapointment is over.

]]> By: Sandy P http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37760 Sandy P Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:16:17 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37760 Isn't there also a huge water shortage looming? Can't solve it w/o Israel and money. Maybe Hosni's also looking at what history will have to say about him. Isn’t there also a huge water shortage looming?

Can’t solve it w/o Israel and money. Maybe Hosni’s also looking at what history will have to say about him.

]]> By: PJ http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37759 PJ Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:08:39 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/02/09/the-sharm-four-an-extraordinary-post-from-debka/#comment-37759 From Bigpharoah, an Egyptian blog: "See, Mubarak's term will end this year and he is eyeing a sixth term. He wants to enter into his new term with as less fuss as possible. With the elections festival in Iraq and President Bush determination to push democracy in the region, Mubarak wants to decrease the pressure on him by turning himself into an Anwar Sadat." As for the PA, perhaps after Bush's total blackout on Arafat, they finally believe him: a lasting peace or you're on your own, buddy. With the US military "training" in Pali, Mazen has independent, non-Pali protection. From Bigpharoah, an Egyptian blog:

“See, Mubarak’s term will end this year and he is eyeing a sixth term. He wants to enter into his new term with as less fuss as possible. With the elections festival in Iraq and President Bush determination to push democracy in the region, Mubarak wants to decrease the pressure on him by turning himself into an Anwar Sadat.”

As for the PA, perhaps after Bush’s total blackout on Arafat, they finally believe him: a lasting peace or you’re on your own, buddy. With the US military “training” in Pali, Mazen has independent, non-Pali protection.

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