38 Comments

1. triticale:

I have no doubt that there are those in the U.S. who likewise believe Bush was behind those firings, altho probably not as many as would point to Karl Rove.

Feb 27, 2005 - 12:09 am 2. Kenneth Almquist:

The Newsweek report differs from the LA Times story about the same press conference. Somebody’s reporting isn’t very good.

Saying that Charles Johnson had more to do with the firing of CBS reporters than George Bush doesn’t exactly settle the issue. Johnson and Bush are on the same team, are they not?

Feb 27, 2005 - 12:44 am 3. nikita:

Roger – take a look at this: Khodorkovsky’s website

Feb 27, 2005 - 12:49 am 4. Lem:

If only Bush were not restrained by a constitution guided on the principle of the separation of powers so as to keep things in check?

A check against what again?

Bush has, by anybody standard, undergone a transformation since Sept 11. For someone familiar with what born again is purported to do, Bush was the right president at the right time. We can only imagine the agony to react of a Kerry or a Gore. The hesitation garnished in the collective experience of those two makes them eligible for UN ambassadors from Finland.

Someday someone will catalog the turns the Bush ship took in the days and months following September 11. Powell (an insider as an insider can get) still has not realized the forces unleashed by the attacks.

Could I, for example, of Dominican decent (African/Native American if you want to be scientific about it) be grateful for the expansion of Europe to the new world?

Could African Americans in this generation have anything to thank slavery for? (would black be here were it not?.. unpc to say) For how long should we remain under historic arrest? When should history be allowed to be used as a pretext for inaction?

The inevitability of time, its sheer constancy, says it’s irrelevant how I choose to interpret it. In the vain of ensuring a better life for ourselves, it’s sad that we are still reminded how it’s up to all of us not repeat a holocaust. Could memory reender us inactive, uncaring?

I just saw a CSPN Black American Forum. Nothing that Bill Cosby has been courageously talking about was talked about.

Bush seems to say I’m going to act as if what I could do will transform.

Clearly we can talk our way out of problems, if only we chose to. Powell admitted Bush gave him time to try Iraq diplomatically, France did him in. It’s clear; we don’t do things unless we have some arterial motive still, it seems we (as a world) we don’t know how yet to act for the preservation of a yet to be understood civilization.

The UN is an example of our magnificent calamitous ineptitude.

Meantime, I dream of a UN secretary making a pledge to successfully end one conflict per year during his service. Abruptly terminating short of that goal.

Attaching consequences to failure – Bush think.

Feb 27, 2005 - 12:52 am 5. Browning:

Saying that Charles Johnson had more to do with the firing of CBS reporters than George Bush doesn’t exactly settle the issue. Johnson and Bush are on the same team, are they not?

Jeezus. Apparently Putin isn’t the only person with a dim understanding of the American First Amendment.

Feb 27, 2005 - 3:49 am 6. 2468:

Roger, that’s one of the funniest things I have heard all day. Can you IMAGINE the hubbub on the blogosphere if Bush had somehow fired Rather? For one thing, Rather is ALIVE, not IN JAIL, and still has ONE job. The depths of cluelessness know no bounds.

Feb 27, 2005 - 4:42 am 7. PeterUK:

Sadly,the human race seems fated to judge others by themselves,it is an eternal source of misunderstanding and conflict.

Feb 27, 2005 - 5:35 am 8. Macker:

From what I understand of Russian history, I think their mindset goes back even further than the Tsars (Roger, didn’t Ivan have the Narodniki to sweep his opponents out of the way so to speak?)…

From the very moment the early Russians invited the Varangians to come and rule over them, they have had the mindset of having stronger people (their leaders) do their thinking for them. It’s going to take a LONG TIME for them to emerge from that way of thinking.

The Secretary of War at BMEWS has an excellent analysis as to Putin’s motives for cracking heads in Russia’s business and political world, go and read it here.

Feb 27, 2005 - 5:39 am 9. David Thomson:

Vladimir Putin appears bitter that Russia is no more than a third rate power—and it will be extremely unlikely that this former world giant will even become a second rate power within the next twenty years. America will continue to have rough relations with Russia until its leaders humbly embrace reality. Putin is similar to the quarterback of a minor league football team envious that he does not play in the major leagues. Does Russia even rate as the tenth most important country in the world? If it disappeared tomorrow morning, would we even notice?

Feb 27, 2005 - 6:59 am 10. Knucklehead:

David Thomson,

I’m beginning to wonder if the importance of Russia lies more in its weakness than its power over the next few decades. At the risk of seeming sympathetic to Putin (I’m not in the least), how can he be anything but paniced (assuming he cares about “Russia” as a nation).

How can Russia maintain itself as any sort of world power at all? It may not even be able to hold onto its own territory and people. The USSR collapsed and it is entirely possible that Russia is collapsing. From the west (both geographically and politically) she is economically second class and playing from a position of weakness. She has no real marketplace of her own and precious little industrial werewhithal. Her breadbasket is flying the coup.

From the east (both geographically and politically) she is demographically second class. If China really is making a move to gain control of Siberia how can Russia stop it short of bloody war she’s ill-equipped to fight?

And the soft underbelly of the Caucasus? Yuck! Their most valuable and fungible resource is right smack in the middle of that mess. Egads, Igor!

Russia may not be able to hold control of its own territory east of the Urals and south of the Volga. And it’s lost the Ukraine. What’s left to provide a basis for a major nation state?

Putin may be looking at having to try to recreate Russia as some sort of virtually landlocked non-player. The view from his palace cannot be very pretty these days.

Feb 27, 2005 - 7:52 am 11. Barry Dauphin:

“Bush’s aides have long feared that former KGB officers in Putin’s inner circle are painting a twisted picture of U.S. policy.”

The First Ammendment isn’t a speical, new policy of the Bush Administration. Sure the KGBers may twist information about Bush’s intentions toward Iran or North Korea or Europe, but the CBS stuff is different. If Putin said the bit about the reporters strictly for local consumption, playing up on the ignorance of the average Russian about the US Constitution and political processes, it’s sad. But if Putin actually believes what he said, then it’s dangerous because of the nuclear materials Russia has. And if he can’t see the difference when it’s explained to him, we are in for more “interesting” times.

Feb 27, 2005 - 7:55 am 12. Terrye:

The Russians have always been lead by people who are brutal and inept. It is like some kind of traditon or something. Even when they threw out the commies, they just invited in the mob. It is like they have no instincts for government at all.

They have a choice to make here: the Iranians [whose days may well be numbered] or a position in the World Trade Organization. The fact that they would risk losing the oppurtunity to be a part of the latter for an oppurtunity to snuggle up to the former is typical of the decision making process in the Kremlin. It is the political version of biting off your nose to spite your face.

Putin is pissed off about the Ukraine and he is getting even. He thinks Russia should still be calling the shots in Eastern Europe. But when it came to Breslan it was obvious that the Russians have no first responders that are even capable of dealing with a handful of terrorists in a school house much less running the world.

Feb 27, 2005 - 8:02 am 13. David Thomson:

ìThe USSR collapsed and it is entirely possible that Russia is collapsing.î

And thatís exactly what seems to be occurring. The Russia of the czars and communist masters is no more. It is now a minor league player. I was not being even slightly facetious when asking if we would notice if Russia totally disappeared. What direct impact would that have on our lives? George W. Bush is trying to let Vladimir Putin save face. The president is in many ways pretending in public that the Russian leader is his equal. This, of course, is utterly ridiculous.

Feb 27, 2005 - 8:05 am 14. Anthony (Los Angeles):

Roger, didn’t you hear? Putin is Rove’s puppet!

Feb 27, 2005 - 8:26 am 15. Knucklehead:

David,

What direct impact would that have on our lives?

Therein lies the rub! Grab hold of your nearest globe. Chances are its so badly out of date that you’d need a recently drawn world map to translate what is where and who is who. But there’s no point purchasing a new globe just yet ’cause it’ll be just as out of date by the mid 21st century.

The western side of the FSU is spinning off into some potentially decent nations that, as far as I can tell, really just wish they could finally get a crack at joining the modern world of the 20th century. Unfortunately for them its now the 21st century. They’ve got old Europe (the EU and the mother of all AARPs on one side) and Russia (the wheezing old former muscleman with the world’s nastiest, most toxic collection of stuff that infects or goes kabloom) on the other side.

The southern side of the FSU is infested with the Islamoid Lunacy Marching Band of Petroleum Based Splodeydopes.

And on the eastern side is the Inscrutable Middle Kingdom cum World’s Next Imperial Hyperhegemon.

That’s an imploding mess way too big to not have any effect on our daily lives. You and I may be enjoying the Eternal Dirt Nap by the time is matters to “daily life” but, heh, I got kids and maybe even someday grandkids. Ivan has fallen off the beanstalk and when he hits the gound its gonna be just like those old cartoons where everything around the crater gets sucked into the hole.

Feb 27, 2005 - 8:29 am 16. Roberts:

There seems to be the idea here that Putin’s remarks reflect his misunderstanding of American politics and institutions.

Not impossible, but more likely Putin’s remarks reflect what Putin wants his subjects to believe about America’s institutions.

Feb 27, 2005 - 8:39 am 17. David Thomson:

ìThat’s an imploding mess way too big to not have any effect on our daily lives.î

Youíre right. I was focussing too much on the positive contributionís of Russiaís economy. If China disappeared tomorrow morning, for instance, I would almost certainly pay substantially more for a lot of items. What does Russia mean to me? Our family’s dvd player and Mazda truck were not manufactured in the former Soviet Union! Are there even any oil fields in the country? But a rapidly disintegrating Russia does indeed pose a great risk. It is foolish for me to suggest otherwise. And this is why President Bush must go out of his way not to hurt Putinís feelings.

Feb 27, 2005 - 8:45 am 18. Terrye:

I agree with Roberts. Putin just wants the people of Russia to think there is not a big difference here. He is playing to the home crowd.

Feb 27, 2005 - 8:46 am 19. David Thomson:

“I was focussing too much on the positive contributionís of Russiaís economy.”

should read:

I was focussing too much on the positive contributions of Russiaís economy.

Feb 27, 2005 - 8:46 am 20. Syl:

Well, I don’t have many thoughts beyond ‘Gawd, Russian needs to learn another way of making money that doesn’t involve selling weapons or nuclear plants.’

Feb 27, 2005 - 9:32 am 21. Rick Ballard:

Too late Thomson, you’re in the penalty box for twenty minutes for misuse of the apostrophe.

Feb 27, 2005 - 9:35 am 22. Knucklehead:

Nuance, Dave, nuance. Russia can’t just disappear. Just ’cause the earthquake (oops, sorry Richard!) is half a world away doesn’t mean the tsunami won’t knock down your beach umbrella.

Feb 27, 2005 - 9:51 am 23. richard mcenroe:

Browning… but… but… Johnson! Bush! Rove! California! Texas! Johnson, Burkett and Rove all use Microsoft Word! Connect the dots! The truth is out there! What about the children! Won’t somebody please think about the children?!

Feb 27, 2005 - 9:56 am 24. Knucklehead:

Syl,

I’d settle for Russia figuring out that they can’t avoid their impending implosion through fire sales of nasty stuff. Unfortunately I don’t think that’s gonna happen. We shoulda elected Kerry ’cause he understood the problem of Russia’s nukular materials stockpiles and he woulda secured them, personally. Instead of silliness like promoting radical change in the ME he woulda taken those hundreds of billions to buy all that nasty Russian stuff from the highest sellers.

Feb 27, 2005 - 9:56 am 25. Knucklehead:

Oh, jeepers, I forgot the children. Gotta go! Loveya, bye.

Feb 27, 2005 - 9:57 am 26. mythusmage:

For a comprehensive look at the situation in Russia today take a look at the articles linked through this post at History’s End

This post at You Big Mouth, You deals with what the PRC may do about the situation. And what it could already be doing. Keep in mind that the Russian Far East has an official population of around 8 million. It’s population of illegal Chinese immigrants is estimated to be around 1 million, and growing. How long before Chinese nationals start calling for a referendum?

Feb 27, 2005 - 10:22 am 27. foreign devil:

The CBS gang of four got fired because they DIDN’T tell the truth, but that little nuance is probably lost on Putin.

Feb 27, 2005 - 11:13 am 28. Kevin P:

Roger:

Putin is reading blogs, just not the right ones. If he had Kos and DU on his favorites list he could come to no other conclusion that Bush/Rove/Hitler fired Rather.

Feb 27, 2005 - 11:17 am 29. someone:

Just think: What if Kerry had won? His view of things is not too different.

Feb 27, 2005 - 11:48 am 30. realwest:

Hi Roger – this is my first post at your site; when I have time I usually hang out at littlegreenfootballs. Charles (and some posters) frequently quote you (approvingly) so I decided to take a look and I’m sure glad I did!

BTW – how did the gallbladder surgery go? I had one over 20 years ago when they had to little cut open your stomach and was in a LOT of pain for a while. Hope you’re feeling better.

Feb 27, 2005 - 12:01 pm 31. Mark Poling:

“Johnson and Bush are on the same team, are they not?”

The Return of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy!

You will be assimilated…

Feb 27, 2005 - 12:34 pm 32. Macker:

“Too late Thomson, you’re in the penalty box for twenty minutes for misuse of the apostrophe.”

Sorry, misuse of apostrophe is only a 2-minute minor, not worthy of a 20-minute (much less 10) game misconduct.

Feb 27, 2005 - 1:40 pm 33. Acheron:

For historical perspective, may one recommend Jacques Barzun’s magisterial “Dawn to Decadence”, an overview of Western cultural evolution from Gutenberg in AD 1450 to the advent of network television c. 1950. From broadcast radio in 1920, developed countries have fostered a “mass commercial culture” unlike any previously known; since 1950, we in the West have experienced an era of “free-market abundance” that liberates economies while paradoxically constraining socio-cultural development. The illusion of “control”, more especially of “self-control”, has given way to “context-relative” environments where most people have little to say because on those terms there is very little we can say.

The Angry Left addresses polities by purposefully obscene rants not to make its points, not emphasize priorities, but to claim attention out-of-context, that is, outside civil contexts where –they’re right [no pun]– little of substance can be addressed. But by this token, discourse becomes immune to dialogue… by emulating “broadcasts” they become impervious to all response. It is not a healthy situation. If not terminal, curative measures for the disease are ill-defined.

May their silence become more accurate!

Feb 27, 2005 - 1:46 pm 34. Terrye:

If nothing else it should occur to the Russians [why do they always remind me of the wiley coyote?] that the Iranians support terror groups like Hezbellah and terror groups in turn support the Chechens who in turn blow Russian planes out of the sky and attack theatres in Moscow and kill Russian children, etc.

Now what if the guys in that theatre had a dirty bomb?

Feb 27, 2005 - 1:47 pm 35. Capt Trevett at the Commons:

This is a perfect example of mirror imaging. More details hers:

http://www.paulieworld.com/blog/archives/001966.html

Feb 27, 2005 - 4:18 pm 36. ed:

Hmmm.

1. I hate to sound like a whack-nut but is anyone else wierded out by this coalition between Russia and Iran? It’s like someone watched that tv movie about Nostradamus’s predictions and decided “hey, this is a plan.”. ugh.

2. Russia is more than a 3rd rate power, it’s a 3rd rate power quickly becoming a 4th rate power. The “reforms” Putin has instituted has cost Russia most of the foreign investors that had been keeping the economy growing. Then there’s the issue of incredibly adult male mortality in Russia due to men drinking themselves to death. Add to this mix the millions of ethnic Chinese now occupying Siberia and the probable annexation of that land by China.

This is not the picture of a vibrant healthy nation. The only thing that could possibly make it worse is if they joined the EU. And don’t think that’s not a possibility either. Putin seems to have the “EU Commissioner” mindset down pat.

3. Is anyone else completely unimpressed by Putin? This guy is supposed to be sophisticated. A former KGB agent and now the President of Russia. And yet this twit doesn’t have even the slightest grip on American politics? Not even a single clue as to how American media works?

UNimpressive.

Feb 27, 2005 - 8:14 pm 37. Knucklehead:

Ed,

Once again I run the odd risk of seeming sympathetic to Putin. Putin, it seems to me, is between a rock and a hard place in the middle of an avalanche.

Pull up the CIA World Factbook and start poking around at what that slice of the world between Russia and Iran looks like.

Russia already has its hands full just with Chechnya. Kazakhstan is predominately muslim. Uzbekistan is overwhelmingly muslim. Both are loaded with petro and other natural resources access to which is essential to any Russian hope of rebuilding their economy.

Russia has problems that dwarf their islamo terrorists problem. Putin is (according to my knuckleheaded speculation) trying to buy off Russia’s Islamic problem through influence with Iran. He’s got no end of problems and precious few tools to try to use to mitigate them, let alone solve them. Bribing the mullahs and gathering some cold, hard cash while doing so probably seems downright sensible to him. Who else but Iran represents any hope of keeping that wolf at bay for him?

He’s trying to keep that problem away from his throat with as few fingers as possible while his real fight is getting control of the internal situation in Russia so that, hopefully, he can the whole mess healthy enough to deal with China before its too late.

Not only that, but I once saw a report from some petro industry guru who made a convincing case that Russia’s most promising way to put its own oil on the market was through Iran. Maybe somebody who knows something about the realities of the oil situation in that part of the world can comment on that.

Feb 28, 2005 - 8:04 am 38. thibaud:

Roger,

Paranoia, alas, is buried deep in the Russian soul

I respectfully disagree. Paranoia certainly characterizes those Russians who work for the security services, which is to say Putin’s puppet-masters, and assorted dim bulbs among the populace who still think fondly of Stalin, but these folks don’t constitute more maybe 20% of the population, and nearly none of the under-50 population.

Russia’s big problem throughout its history has been intellectual isolation, the lack of access to ideas and information from the West. This is not a spiritual but a political condition: a deliberate consequence of government policy. Under the Soviets this isolation was total; under the tsars it was less rigorous in the decades after 1860 but still chilling.

After 1989, that isolation vanished, and with it ignorance and its stepchild, paranoia, also faded from Russian civic and social life. The stalinophiles are figures of ridicule, as are right-wing nationalist anti-semites. Zhirinovsky, the most notorious and prominent anti-semitic nationalist, is routinely referred to as syn advokata, or “son of a lawyer”, which was his response to a reporter’s bland observation that Zhirinovsky’s own father was jewish. As I say, what Hofstadter called “the paranoid tendency” in Russia as in America is more of a joke than anything else.

Nonetheless there are good reasons to loathe and mistrust the Russian government. Putin’s wretched regime commands no love or enduring support from the populace, but it is respected for the simple reason that Putin is trying to restore some semblance of organization and minimal effectiveness to a government that long ago ceased to govern. They see in Putin an alternative to the massive incompetence and grand larceny of Yeltsin’s regime.

Russians across the board are simply tired of chaos, kleptocracy and economic misery: of pensions not being paid, of a legislature that can’t pass laws and judges that can’t enforce them, of an extraordinarily corrupt and incompetent military that can’t protect borders or put down a mickey-mouse, bandit-led insurrection in Chechnya.

Even though it’s becoming obvious that Putin’s FSB handlers are themselves little more than another oligarchic gang– note the wonderfully mysterious entity, almost certainly an FSB front organization, that snapped up Yukos on behalf of state-dominated Gazprom– it’s not at all clear that ownership of nearly 40% of Russia’s economy by seven swindlers, incl Khodorkovsky, is preferable. Kohodrokovsky should have been thrown in prison in 1995 for his crimes. Or even in 1998, when his charade of a “bank” swindled thousands of ordinary Russian depositors out of their life savings.

Today’s Russians have the basis of a normal, healthy civic society. As is so often the case in other coutnries around the world, it’s the Russians’ miserably brutal, incompetent, kleptocratic leaders who are to blame for the mess.

best,

thibaud

Mar 1, 2005 - 8:38 am

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