71 Comments

1. Huan:

Stockholm syndrome?

Mar 6, 2005 - 9:11 am 2. Old Dad:

There’s clearly a great deal that we don’t know. Certainly, the Italian rescue team knew that attempting to speed through a check point was tantamount to suicide. And there is no evidence or motive to support the theory that the Italians were targeted.

Of course, a complete lack of knowledge never stopped the media before. Predictably, they are spinning this tragedy in the worst possible light.

Mar 6, 2005 - 9:13 am 3. Dick:

Roger,

Given what we know about this incident, yours is the second most likely scenario. The first would be the report of the American soldiers that the car sped at the checkpoint and didn’t respond to warnings.

It doesn’t really matter, because the people who want to believe that this was some planned hit on an anti-american journalist are going to believe that no matter what facts eventually come out. If someone for example produces video footage that corroborates the US account 100% the matter will just disappear from the news without explanation. For the public at large it will just be one more disturbing, unresolved incident.

Mar 6, 2005 - 9:13 am 4. simplecitydoc:

Your scenario is both original and plausible- good on ya!

Mar 6, 2005 - 9:23 am 5. Roger:

Of course, Dick, both those scenarios could co-exist. Vamos a ver.

Mar 6, 2005 - 9:23 am 6. foreign devil:

For anyone to even ‘imply’ the US would deliberately target her car, that’s even if they knew it was her (which I doubt they did–probably thought it was another suicider), is ludicrous. That is not America’s M.O.–to arbitrarily murder people. She knows it; you know it; I know it! To suggest otherwise is like someone using the word “Nazi” in a debate. Immediately the user becomes suspect. They have an agenda which is not being met and the level of rhetoric has just escalated to screaming pitch. That doesn’t, however, make anything being said true!

She’s a known Communist and a feminazi; one of a group of them at Il Manifesto. Her editor, another woman, was licking her chops at the prospect of forcing the US to grovel to her employee Sgrena, and as the BBC reporter reminded her, the prospect of an apology, to which she smirked “Of course!”

The evil spirits in the world abound to capitalize on any and every perceived flaw in the victors and change-makers, America and her allies. Right now those who hate these changes see a fissure in the armour of the allies, and one ally in particular, Italy, and they mean to hammer their chisels into the fissure as far as they can to see if they can crack support for what’s happening in the Middle East.

It matters but it won’t overall change much. There’s a momentum building that even the evil Hassan Nasrallah will find may overtake and crush him. This morning he announced Hezbollah is against the Syrian pullout from Lebanon and will oppose it. He announced that Hezbollah has allied with the Christian Phalange against the pullout of Syria from Lebanon. Sgrena’s shrillings are a nine-day wonder which will be supplanted next week by far more important issues.

Mar 6, 2005 - 9:46 am 7. Terrye:

Roger:

The first words I heard a spokesman for the Italain government say were that the vehicle had been caught in cross fire.

I think the lady is suspect, anyone who knows what she thinks of Americans would have to admit she is predisposed to blame them. In fact they would have to admit she fears them. She thinks they are capable of anything and has a lifetime of prejudice to back that up. Might as well ask a member of the KKK if he trusts a black man. She went to Iraq to dig up dirt on America. She was just sure we nuked Fallujah or something and then wham bam she is kidnapped by some nice young resistance fighters who were warning against the bad Americans when they weren’t busy threatening to chop off her head.

What if someone [the terrorists] shot at the car at the precise moment they were supposed to stop and the drive panicked?

It is odd and I don’t trust this woman at all.

Mar 6, 2005 - 9:48 am 8. Carol_Herman:

Good plotting, Roger! The injured, not dead, Italian communist mouthpiece “got out of jail,” not free. But at the cost of a million dollar bribe. And, some Italians are onto this, now. The Mafia, it seems has it’s chain-of-command. Such a cash and carry business, you have no idea.

Also, at the speed the car was traveling, what the Americans hit with bullets was the ENGINE BLOCK. Stopped the car. And, scrapnel flew. And, the Italian communist mouthpiece, because she’s alive, not dead, has had to admit the car was, in fact, traveling “at regular speed.” Anyone have any idea what Italians think is regular speed? I’ve heard of people who’ve visited Florence, that you can’t exactly cross streets, there. That pedestrians use sticks to hit moving car bumpers in order to slow down drivers enough … so that people can get from one side of the street to another.

Ya gotta love the Italians. It’s true they hate Americans. More so because so many of their brethren, who left Italy for America come back to visit. Telling all who listen such blissful stuff of life on our shores.

This is a good story! Nothing beats Italian scenery. And, the pleasures of their sunny villas. Roger, this is a MILLION DOLLAR STORY! Keep writing!

Mar 6, 2005 - 10:14 am 9. richard mcenroe:

Huan ó EuroCommunists call Stockholm Syndrome daily life…

Please. If the Americans wanted this woman dead, all it takes is one Javelin or Hellfire missile and sad explanations about an IED. No Americans in sight, no trackbacks, nothing.

This was either an accident or a set-up.

Mar 6, 2005 - 10:20 am 10. Carol_Herman:

Oh, yes, I have to add. We were once to believe a guy could enter a phone booth with glasses on; and when he left the phone booth he was Superman. But tell me this? A phone booth is stationary. It gives outsiders time to move their heads and look in. But a moving car? You recognize people in a moving car? Don’t lots of cars look alike? Hasn’t the Al-Quada used cars to “blend in?” Ya know, this story just gets better and better. I’m not one willing to accept their facts as Hoyle. Not when the MSM give us a story with so much meat on it. Heck,I’m tempted to say they must regret seeing what ordinary folk really do with their “news.” Once the Internet begins to chatter. It’s nice to know there’s something there, that happens to their stories, besides just resting their slanted news under the puppy’s tail, so to speak, don’t cha, think?

Mar 6, 2005 - 10:26 am 11. PeterUK:

Another scenario is that the driver had instructions not to stop,either from in the car or previously.

The idea that a check point would be used for an assassination attempt is too “Godfather” to be believed,a standard L shaped ambush using AK47s and RPGs on the road in would have muddied the waters sufficiently to be deniable.

Further,it is quite certain that in the implausible event that it was assassination attempt Sgrena would not have survived.

Eason’s words have sunk in somewhere.

Mar 6, 2005 - 10:29 am 12. Cynic:

It is, once again, interesting to see how the media can produce a story without context.

How easily they ignore the happenings of the past year.

Haven’t we seen this movie before?

Deliberately targetting reporters.

Your soldiers are as relaxed as someone at the beach.

They are not tense, adrenalin pumping, looking for an enemy reaction, peering into the darkness wondering who and what is approaching.

Nah! Just Domino trying to get the pizza delivered in 1/2 hour, with a bottle of coke/vinho.

When are people going to get it into their heads that war is not waged by Hollywoodian stereotypes and being at the wrong end of real weapons very different from hunting or playing with paint ball guns.

Mar 6, 2005 - 10:39 am 13. Stan:

Let’s use the advice of our old friend Occam and his razor:

I have it on good authority (a friend that did 9 months in Mosul as unit intelligence operative and and riding on patrol) they drive CRAZY there! They speed all the time, rules of the road are the merest of suggestion, including lane direction! If you can imagine they will drive up on the tail of US military column and then attemp to pass. Hand signals are used to get their attention but frequently have to resort to warning bursts of machinegun fire. If that avails not, then they take out the engine block.

The most plausible scenario then unfolds: driver approaches at “regular speed” (35 mph?), hand signals used, warning shots used, finally, take out the engine block with high potential for collateral effects. Why didn’t the driver just slow down? Fear?Panic? …certainly seems probable.

What is clearly not probable, in THAT war zone, after being fired upon is to attempt driving through an armed checkpoint without stopping and expect a safe outcome.

It seems all so simple, which, Occam proposed yields the likeliest correct answer.

Mar 6, 2005 - 10:51 am 14. PJ:

300-400 bullets??? By tomorrow, it’ll be nukes.

But I think you’re right, foreign devil, that she was kidnapped to weaken our alliance with Italy. They don’t have the power at the moment to bomb a train station like they did in Madrid.

PeterUK, I agree with you, too. Who was driving the car, anyway, a terrorist? Could be a suicide mission. The road to the airport is known to be dangerous and filled with coalition patrols. Why would he drive right through it?

Mar 6, 2005 - 11:15 am 15. Rick Ballard:

I’ve read the Corriere della Sera, La Stampa and La Repubblica and I don’t get a sense of anti-Americanism at all. Politicians who oppose Berlusconi are making their typical noises and the US is getting lambasted a bit for slowness in reporting the exact circumstances but there isn’t any grand chorus of anti-American sentiment.

Aside from Sgrena and Calipari there was the driver who is listed as “gravely wounded” and has not given (that I can find) his version of events.

I think I’ll stick with Occam’s toothbrush on this one. If we were trying to kill her, she’d be dead.

Mar 6, 2005 - 11:23 am 16. Mark Poling:

And of course, this whole thing happening after Eason Jordan’s pop-off is just coincidence, right?

Never, ever hand your enemy a weapon.

Unless he’s not your enemy, right?

Mar 6, 2005 - 11:31 am 17. Carol_Herman:

The Italian woman was expendable.

Eason Jordan, however, is still graced by the non-release of his remarks at Davos.

Insipid MSM. I’d bet the Americans were not informed the car was coming; and there were hopes this hostage would earn back the million dollars it took to get her “in the picture.” What a story!

Mar 6, 2005 - 11:39 am 18. John Anderson:

Reading what I have, especially Sgrena’s comments that the driver was shouting “We’re Italian” (in a presumably air-conditioned car?) and that they had passed through no previous checkpoints (I discount her claim that it was not a checkpoint, but a patrol – like she’d know), I can only conclude that the driver panicked when hit with a spotlight out of the darkness (it was 9PM locally) and hearing the initial warning gunfire.

Mar 6, 2005 - 11:39 am 19. Reg Jones:

Occam’s razor, again. The key quotes are below.

Likely scenario:

Italians and kidnappers negotiated a ransom. US policy strongly resisted any ransom thus US could not be allowed to interfere. To help in that regard kidnappers needed a compliant hostage who was told “not to signal her presence to anyone, because “the Americans might intervene.” To gain her compliance the kidnappers said “to be careful because the Americans don’t want you to return”.

Key AP Quotes:

1. Sgrena… did not rule out that she was targeted, saying the United States likely disapproved of Italy’s methods to secure her release, although she did not elaborate.

“The fact that the Americans don’t want negotiations to free the hostages is known…The fact that they do everything to prevent the adoption of this practice to save the lives of people held hostages, everybody knows that. So I don’t see why I should rule out that I could have been the target.”

Italian officials have not provided details about the negotiations leading to Sgrena’s release Friday after a month in captivity, but Agriculture Minister Giovanni Alemanno was quoted as saying it was “very likely” a ransom was paid. U.S. officials object to ransoms, saying it encourages further kidnappings.

2. Suddenly, she said, she remembered her captors’ words, when they warned her “to be careful because the Americans don’t want you to return.”

Sgrena wrote that her captors warned her as she was about to be released not to signal her presence to anyone, because “the Americans might intervene.”, She said her captors blindfolded her and drove her to a location where she was turned over to agents and they set off for the airport.

Mar 6, 2005 - 11:40 am 20. ed:

Hmmm.

1. Italian forces have been in Iraq for a couple years, at least. So they should know what they’re doing when dealing with US military checkpoints.

2. US armored vehicles universally mount .50 machineguns. If you’re trying to stop a vehicle it’s doubtful you’d use a smaller round when .50’s are available. For those who aren’t familiar with the .50 cal, the bullet alone is the size of your thumb.

3. The dead Italian intelligence agent, from some reports, had been shot in the *temple* and in an autopsy the bullet was extracted from his *head*. Frankly I find this hard to credit so it might just be someone pulling this out of his ass. Because if anybody shot at the car it would be with .50 cal machineguns. And a .50 bullet to the head, wouldn’t leave anything behind. So there would be nothing to extract.

…

Frankly there are just too many unanswered questions about this.

a. What caliber was the bullet that killed the intelligence agent?

b. Is it a caliber that is used by American forces?

c. Who were the other passengers and who was the driver? Was the driver new to Iraq?

d. Which unit was responsible for this checkpoint? Were they new to Iraq?

e. What is the actual condition of the journalist? The last video she participated in she claimed that her health was bad. Is it actually that way?

*shrug* frankly something smells about all this.

Mar 6, 2005 - 11:53 am 21. richard mcenroe:

Ed, it could conceivably have been a 7.62 NATO round (.308 Winchester), since many US vehicles do mount machine guns firing those. But that round would go straight through a human head as well. So your point is still worth considering.

Mar 6, 2005 - 12:02 pm 22. Cosmo:

If memory serves me, she’s not the first propagandist-posing-as-”journalist” who’s fallen into the hands of “kidnappers,” only to be “released” in an orgy of positive media attention for the “kidnappers” — attention which always seems to fade when details of the story start changing or tripping over facts.

Mar 6, 2005 - 12:04 pm 23. PeterUK:

A question has to be asked about the role of the Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari,who was tragically killed.Presumably Calipari had the knowledge and experience to know that speeding through an army checkpoint can be fatal,this surely is in all the text books based on evidence from Northern Ireland,Palestine and Iraq. “Stop the Car and let me handle this”, should have been the response.

Why wasn’t Calipari in control of the situation as a trained intelligence officer should be?

Mar 6, 2005 - 12:06 pm 24. Terrye:

Peter:

Well the Italian communist would say there was no check point and the Americans opened fire with the intent of killing the passengers.

So if the Italian government really believes this crap why don’t they declare war on us or soemthing?

I would say that if we deliberately tried to kill several Italian citizens to hide the fact that we used chemical weapons in Fallujah and this commie is apparently the only person in the world that knows the truth of this..it would follow that pulling their troops out would not be near enough. So when will Italy attack?

Mar 6, 2005 - 12:17 pm 25. ambisinistral:

This woman’s story will go the way of the tank deliberately targeting reporters in the Hotel during the capture of Bahgdad. It is too absurb for all but a zealot to buy into, but it will make a lot of noise for a week.

Mar 6, 2005 - 12:27 pm 26. pdq332:

Roger:

This was staged, but not by the insurgents.

Like elements within our own CIA that allegedly tried to stop the war in Iraq by touting a weak WMD case against Iraq (and subsequently tried to destroy that case with the help of Joe Wilson and the dubious appearance of forgeries), there are probably elements within the Italian spy agency that likewise are invested in the pre-911 makeup of the Middle East in general and the survival of Saddam Hussein in particular.

Let’s us remember that these agents were in Iraq in order to help fund the “insurgency” there with “ransom money.” It is no great leap to suppose that they intentionally tried to run the checkpoint (with Sgrenna’s knowledge or not) in order to generate even more pressure on Berlusconi to pull troops out of Iraq, ala Spain.

I do not believe that the insurgents would phone in a bomb threat or were involved in any way because to them, her value as an anti-US mouthpiece is too great, and there is no way that they could know she wouldn’t be killed.

Mar 6, 2005 - 12:33 pm 27. Jeff Harrell:

Regarding the question of megatonnage, I imagine that standard procedure in a case like this would be, rather than opening fire indiscriminately, putting a high-caliber round through the vehicle’s engine block. It’s entirely possible that such a round might spall, sending shrapnel through the vehicle’s firewall into the passenger compartment.

But the thing that really strikes me is that we just don’t know. We’ve heard reports that Sgrena was “wounded.” The wound hasn’t been described. We’ve heard that a security agent riding in the vehicle was killed; we don’t know how. We’ve heard that “300-400 rounds” were fired at the vehicle; there are no pictures of a bullet-riddled Suburban. The quality of the reporting on this story has just been crap.

If we’d had a blogger on the scene, we would have had a full account plus camera-phone pictures within minutes.

Mar 6, 2005 - 12:36 pm 28. dandragna:

As others above have noted, I don’t think there’s any call for cryptic analysis in any direction. (Entertaining as Roger’s plot would be.) The “untold story” here is probably just another massive intelligence screw up–this time of the Italian variety.

The Americans clearly weren’t “in the loop” regarding Operation Bagman–and probably would’ve frowned at the ransom funds involved if they had been. (The Americans are intimately familiar the sort of murderous materiel such pay-offs purchase, after all.)

So the Italian government tried to pull off its daring war-zone “rescue” in operational secrecy, and the results have been, er, mixed. And now Berlusconi is desperately trying to cover his formidable behind by pointing fingers everywhere but in the direction of his own inept intelligence services. (Don’t look for any mea culpas coming from that direction anytime soon.)

The useful fiction that the Trigger-Happy Minions of The Infernal Hegemon played more than a minor role in this unfortunate–but entirely foreseeable–melodrama is just more ideological spin from the usual suspects. Assisted in this case by some limber Italian government CYA.

(”Demanding answers from Washington”? Pul-lease.)

Mar 6, 2005 - 12:37 pm 29. Rick Ballard:

According to Italian press reports of the autopsy, Calpari was killed by a bullet that entered the right occiptal/parietal area and exited above the left ear. He was also grazed in the right calf – probably by a ricochet. No way was the round a .50. Sgrena was wounded in the shoulder by ’shrapnel’ (might also have been a ricochet). There were a total of 4 people in the car – the other two have not been identified or issued a statement. They are both described as being “seriously wounded”.

There are reports that Calpari had negotiated the payment of ransom in four other kidnappings in Iraq and that US policy is very firmly against the payment of any ransome. So, perhaps a little less coordination than imagined between the Italians and the Americans prior to this happening, no? Whose responsibility was it for the Americans to be informed that the Italians had successfully ransomed (contra policy) this journalist? As the left hand so famously said, “What right hand?”.

Mar 6, 2005 - 1:05 pm 30. Sonetka:

It’s probably more of a major screwup on all sides than some sort of deftly executed plot, but I have to say, I can’t see Sgrena’s captors giving much of a damn what happened to her after she was released. If she lived – great, she’ll spread the word about how “They let me go and the Americans tried to target me!” If she died, her propaganda value would lie in the fact that they – the saintly, reasonable insurgents! – had released her, whereupon she was gunned down by the eeevil Americans. That would stir up enough craziness even if she wasn’t alive to help.

As for deliberately targeting her? First, no way she’s important enough; I realize a lot of journalists tend to be blinded by reverence when they look in a mirror, but that doesn’t extend to outsiders who’d rather not be court-martialed, thanks. Second, what would be the *point*? Ooh, an anti-American journalist in Iraq. Not like you can’t get them by the bushel; what difference does subtracting one make? Quite apart from the moral, shall we say, insufficiency of it all.

So no, I don’t think Roger’s scenario is the most likely, but it certainly hangs together far better than what the lady herself seems to be pushing.

Mar 6, 2005 - 1:45 pm 31. Korla Pundit:

I found out that the intelligence agent, Nicola Calipari, was the same person who “freed” Simona Torretta and another Italian woman under similarly mysterious circumstances last year.

You remember: these were the two “aid workers” (aka human shields) who ran the pro-Saddam anti-sanctions NGO, A Bridge to Baghdad, who were also “kidnapped” under fishy and shadowy circumstances. And when they were released to Calipari, also allegedly for a million dollars ransom, they also praised their “captors,” justified terrorism, and condemned the U.S. and the Italian government that went along with it.

My own pet theory based on nothing: the whole thing was a scam to get a million dollars. Again. And for the communists, a chance to make America look bad.

And why try to run through the checkpoint? Perhaps we will find out there was an unpaid million still in the car.

That sounds like a spy mystery novel, doesn’t it?

Mar 6, 2005 - 1:47 pm 32. Sandy P:

LGF has a pic of the car.

W/all that target practice our people have had, one would have hoped for a better job.

They need to go back to the shooting range. That’s just embarrassing.

Mar 6, 2005 - 1:52 pm 33. Dafydd ab Hugh:

Dear Roger;

As a fellow writer, I have to say the plot is shaky. It depends upon the “insurgents” being able to find someone the American soldiers at the checkpoint would trust enough simply to open fire on a car, when in fact SOP would dictate they attempt to stop and search it. The soldiers already have a lot of experience with disgruntled Iraqis fingering their enemies as terrorists, trying to get the Americans to do their dirty work for them.

It’s a bit of an “idiot plot,” relying on the American soldiers being awfully foolish.

A much more plausible plot would have the terrorists corrupt one man: the driver. They offer him a lot of money to speed towards the checkpoint — risking his life, to be sure, but not committing suicide; in fact, he survived.

You have to set it up a bit first: Sgrena is already predisposed to hate the Americans. She could easily have cooked up the whole “hostage” thing (like those Japanese Communists a few months ago) just to make the terrorists look good when they release her (she gets a story, they get good press coverage). You have the terrorists frightening her during the voluntary “captivity” by lurid tales of botched American rescues where the hostages are all killed… they can simply tell the story of the Russian hostage rescue, substituting “Americans” for “Russians;” she’s a Communist, she’ll believe it!

Just before they depart, they tell her, through her translator, that the Americans don’t want her back and may well fire on her car. Then, as the driver approaches, when the Americans fire warning shots, the driver screams “the Americans are shooting at us!” and he guns the engine towards the checkpoint, drawing the actual fire. He ducks down so he won’t get hit, letting the car crash into a barricade or somesuch.

I think this is a much more workable plot device; for one thing, nobody has to be stupid: everybody is acting rationally in furtherance of his own political goals. Sgrena hates Americans and the war, she’s been primed that they’re going to try to kill her, she hears gunfire, and the driver says the Americans are shooting; she 100% believes it was an assassination attempt (since she’s so important that of course the Americans want to kill her).

The driver gets paid and lives to collect his money. The translator was probably also a Communist; he knows nothing about the plot, and he’s slain. The Americans are acting in perfectly good faith, shooting at a car that is, in fact, running the blockade at the checkpoint.

That’s the way I would write it, at least!

Dafydd ab Hugh

Mar 6, 2005 - 1:59 pm 34. Carol_Herman:

Okay. Calpari got shot inside the car. OR, he got shot on the plane taking this stooge, Sgrena, home on her milion dollar ticket.

Just like the Italians to produce a story so full of holes it maes you wonder what the truth is?

Anyway, stories full of holes are like buckets full of holes, they just keep leaking until they’re empty.

Now, I have other questions? What did Eason Jordan know and when did he know it? And, what does SSgrena keep as a momento from her trip to Iraq? “All I got was this lousy tee-shirt from Eason Jordan’s closet?”

How long before the ruse of Jennin got uncovered? And, isn’t the blood libel story out of the French 2 coverage of that faked shooting of a kid in Palestine still running loose still on-going?

This Hall of Mirrors will eventually make a great motion picture comedy. Unlike the Italian “intelligence officer,” now dead … What does that do to the spirit of the men left standing, working for that same Italian agency? We have the Soprano’s. But in Italy they grow the real thing!

Mar 6, 2005 - 2:07 pm 35. Silicon valley Jim:

If I were in charge of our checkpoints in Iraq, my orders to the troops would now escalate – not to “shoot to kill”, but, rather to “shoot to vaporize”. It’s clear that major “news” organizations are cooperating with the terrorists in the creation of stories that are, at best, misleading, and possibly nearly complete lies.

Mar 6, 2005 - 2:17 pm 36. Terrye:

Carol:

hey I can be just as conspiratorial as any leftie…that timing on Eason Jordan’s remarks were really coincidental weren’t they?

Almost as if he knew what was coming.

If the Americans wanted to silence this all important person, why didn’t they do it before she was abducted? A car bomb while she is interviewing victims of American bombing raids on orphanages could have been arranged.

After all they had no way of knowing she would be taken, unless they had something to do with it in which case why not kill her then?

Mar 6, 2005 - 2:26 pm 37. Carol_Herman:

Well, Terrye, whatever works. Stand next to a leaky bucket long enough, and it floats your boat, besides getting your socks wet. I haven’t had this much fun sitting on the sidelines, hoping Roger really does write a book! Which was my purpose of commenting on this threat, in the first place.

And, for no purpose at all, but did you know Conan Doyle used Oscar Wilde as his model for Sherlock Holmes? New MODEL material may be available right here? !!!

So? Not everything in fiction stays in fiction. I really want the doors ripped off on this story! Such hokum. And, not only did our president have to apologize to Italian president; the poor guys on duty in Iraq now get to have their lives put through wringers by legal yokels. What? It can be made into a movie? Hmm. Maybe, the suffering, ahead, can be mitigated, then. Dear Roger, what does it take to get you truly inspired?

Mar 6, 2005 - 2:35 pm 38. richard mcenroe:

No, Roger, you want to sell this to a modern studio, right?

Matt! Damon! plays a crusading CNN reporter who is covering a Ba’athist underground soup kitchen whose Syrian volunteers are selflessly feeding the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi orphans left by the US occupation when he rescues a beautiful Italian reporter (played by Monica Bellucci) from a US assassination attempt. Monica is the only witness to a covert US program, headed up by the villainous General played by Michael Ironside to drive the patriotic Sunnis off their native land so Evil Corporations can build a secret oil pipeline between the corrupt and Westernized Kurds to the north and the brutish Shi’ites to the South. But rather than simply put it out on the air, because the CIA can track the satellite transmission, he and Monica embark on a desperate and photogenic cross-country chase to reach an major international editor’s conference in Europe before the General can catch up with them and have them liquidated…

Mar 6, 2005 - 2:37 pm 39. PeterUK:

Terrye,

It is obvious that Eason Jordan’s speech was a coded message to all the hostages to get shot at.

In general though,why did the driver panic and drive towards the guns? Even pheasants are not that stupid unless the beaters drive them.

Mar 6, 2005 - 2:40 pm 40. firetide:

This article from Bloomberg contains another indication that Sgrena may indeed have been set up by her kidnappers:

http://tinyurl.com/68qel

The Bloomberg article also notes, as Mr. Simon did, that it was the kidnappers who told Sgrena that the Americans wanted her dead, then goes on to state: “ÔøΩ The U.S. wasn’t informed of the last phases of Italy’s negotiations with the kidnappers, as it opposed any ransom being paid for Sgrena, said Il Sole/24 Ore. A ransom of “several million dollars” was paid in another Arab country at about the time of her release, the daily newspaper said today.ÔøΩ

There seems to be enough here to suggest that the coming investigation should deal very completely with three questions of fact:

1. ÔøΩDid the Italian security service negotiators inform U.S. military authorities at _any_ point that Ms. Sgrena had been released, that she was enroute to Baghdad airport, the route her convoy was taking, or the appearance of the vehicles?

2. ÔøΩDid the captors insist, as a condition of Ms. SgrenaÔøΩs release that U.S. military authorities not be informed?

3. ÔøΩDid some Iraqi informant advise U.S. military authorities that there would be an attempted suicide carbombing along the Baghdad airport road that evening?

A further question: Just who did the kidnappers want dead? Was it Sgrena, the sympathetic journalist or the Italian security operatives who, having obtained information on the terrorists and their links to a third country during negotiations, would be in a position to share it with the Americans or the Iraqi government?

Mar 6, 2005 - 2:47 pm 41. richard mcenroe:

Go look at the picture of Sgrena’s car on LGF. She has been caught in one bare faced lie already.

She wasn’t set up. She was in on it.

Mar 6, 2005 - 2:59 pm 42. PeterUK:

Since there were reprtedly four people in the car and Calipari was sat in the back next to Sgrena,

“Sgrena said the driver began shouting that they were Italian, then “Nicola Calipari dove on top of me to protect me and immediately, and I mean immediately, I felt his last breath as he died on me.” Powerline

It is plausible that the “interpreter” shot Calipari and put a gun to the drivers head and said “Drive”

Mar 6, 2005 - 3:02 pm 43. Charlie Quidnunc:

Roger,

I read this post in my Podcast today. Give it a listen if you get a minute. I summarize those of Michelle Malkin, Charles Johnson, and yours, looking for what the truth is. Hard to find, with dueling agendas.

Charlie Quidnunc

Mar 6, 2005 - 3:06 pm 44. lindenen:

Here is some more input on checkpoints in Iraq.

You really have to read it. It fills in the blanks as to why Iraqis would speed up at the checkpoints.

Afterall this time, wouldn’t they have bothered to clearly mark the checkpoints and put up a sign that says “STOP! US Military!” If so, this level of pure incompetence (not clearly marking a checkpoint) doesn’t make sense to me.

If that is the car involved in the altercation and there really are no bulletholes in the car, then things just got very interesting.

Mar 6, 2005 - 3:09 pm 45. lindenen:

Even weirder.

“ó When The Associated Press in Baghdad asked the U.S. military to see the vehicle on Saturday, the military said it didn’t know where it was.”

So what car is that? Why did they film a random car?

Mar 6, 2005 - 3:26 pm 46. firetide:

To Richard Mcenroe: If the car shown on Little Green Footballs and in the Yahoo! news video is in fact the car in which Ms. Sgrena was traveling, it appears to have been hit only by two rounds, which penetrated the engine compartment at an oblique angle on the passenger side. In order to strike Ms. Sgrena or Mr. Calipari, those rounds would have had to have penetrated the engine and the front seat. Except for the possibility of a ricochet from the engine block, I would think that Mr. Calipari could only have been struck in the head or upper body if he had pulled Ms. Sgrena to the floor.

The autopsy report on Mr. Calipari and the medical description of Ms. Sgrena’s wound should make very interesting reading.

Mar 6, 2005 - 3:26 pm 47. lindenen:

Ha. Posting again. It’s the car she was kidnapped from. The military MUST know where the other car is they’re just not releasing it for pictures.

Mar 6, 2005 - 3:29 pm 48. richard mcenroe:

Lindenen ó There are some questions being raised as to whether that is the car from the shooting or the original kidnapping. AP is id’ing it as the shooting car, Reuters as the kidnapping car.

Mar 6, 2005 - 3:31 pm 49. Carol_Herman:

VIEW THE CAR! Lucianne’s posted! Little Green Footballs has a still from the actual video. See this! Even if the photo doesn’t paste, here. Sgrena’s a LIAR. Okay. We all knew that! Their newspaper,The Guardian said 300 to 400 rounds went off. Where’s the Swiss Cheese? GO LOOK. DON’T MISS THIS! How did she count 300 to 400 rounds? If her head was buried under the body of the driver? Ask questions. That’s our job. It sure goes a long way to help our troops whom the media thinks will be turned into dog meat to please the MSM.

3/6/2005: Maybe All 400 Bullets Missed?

LGF reader Thor pointed out that the Associated Press has video of Giuliana Sgrenaís car; I found the video at The FeedRoom.

Sgrena claims that US troops fired between 300 and 400 rounds at the car from ìan armored vehicle.î

Giuliana Sgrena is a liar. Here is the image of her car from the video:

UPDATE at 3/6/05 1:54:30 pm:

Mar 6, 2005 - 3:38 pm 50. richard mcenroe:

Do we have any information on how many US troops were allegedly invololved in firing on the car? I’ve heard one Bradley. If so, it would take almost 30 seconds to fire 300-400 machine gun bullets from its M240C machine gun and I’m not even sure a Bradley carries that many ready-rounds in 25mm. Even if it did, 300 25mm shells would dissolve a car.

Mar 6, 2005 - 3:41 pm 51. richard mcenroe:

Carol ó It’s the wrong car; AP put up video of the kidnapping video. Charles Johnson has retracted.

Mar 6, 2005 - 3:48 pm 52. Carol_Herman:

Yes, Richard, I saw. But the blogs are swarming all over this. The MSM no longer have a clear shot at maligning our troops. And, the more Sgrena talks, the less bullet proof her story is.

How many yesterdays go by before we see Italy admitting to the million dollar payoff?

“Communists in Italy” sounds like such an Oxymoron to me. I’m sure a majority of Italians love the Pope. And, are proud of the Vatican.

I think there are more good people on our side; than theirs. And, I think there are more holes in this story, now, than Berlusconi can handle with a straight face. How soon before he breaks out the Chianti and smiles? THE BLOGS ARE ALL OVER THIS! Weekend warriors to the rescue, don’t cha think?

Mar 6, 2005 - 4:00 pm 53. Terrye:

Some of the checkpoints are permanent and some are not. Sometimes a patrol will set up a checkpoint. The idea is to maintain an element of surprise so that they can catch more bad guys. At least that is what I heard a soldier say.

OK, so if the soldiers did not know she was in the car then they shot at her because they are trigger happy. And if they did know then they shot at her meaning to kill her. handy.

You know so many innocent people have died in that country and somehow when a reporter gets killed it matters. I mean did the Italian communist party get all upset when the socalled resistance killed 125 people in Hilla?

No, but one of them gets hurt and it is an international incident and big ass conspiracy.

Mar 6, 2005 - 4:22 pm 54. Hektor:

The media spin is in full swing (just cruise to some of the other sites). Naturally, in the conspiracy stew that passes for logical dialogue in the international MSM, US troops are being accused of everything but the extinction of the dinosaurs. As I see it, the following are the facts we can deal with at this moment, and we should give our countrymen the benefit of the doubt until more is known:

1. It was night there on the road to Baghdad International (i.e., dark).

2. Terrorists in Baghdad (and other Iraqi cities) often block roads with their own checkpoints, where they stop cars and rob/kidnap vehicle occupanst (don’t take my word for it…there’s plenty of CNN and al-Jazirah footage that shows insurgents doing this). These terrorists are armed and often fire rounds in the air to make sure you stop. I think Ms. Sgrena was originally captured in this fashion.

3. No word has been released yet on whether or not the Italian intelligence service officers had come to Iraq directly from Italy. If so, they may not have been as familiar with the dangers of approaching a Coalition checkpoint at high speed. Also, we don’t know if the Italian government had even told the Coalition authorities that they were going to be bringing Ms. Sgrena out. If they didn’t coordinate with the Coalition, then there was no way they could know who was in the vehicle.

4. The vehicle driver was approaching a poorly-lit area, in the dark, and all he sees is someone with a rifle waving a flashlight at him, indicating he should stop. He may not be able to see WHO is motioning him to stop; however, the silhouette of his rifle is probably visible. If not, the muzzle flash probably was. From the perspective of the troops manning the checkpoint, all they see is a fast-approaching car (probably with its interior lights off) that’s ignoring their frantic signals. A non-hostile driver who’s been living and working there would NOT have done what this car was doing; however, that’s exactly what the car bombers do.

5. Ms. Sgrena is in the car, vividly recalls the circumstances of her abduction, and is quite likely very upset at the thought that she may be on the verge of being abducted again. She may be very distracted (and distracting) at this point.

6. Cars that approach checkpoints too fast, in the dark, often have bad intentions…this is a statistical fact. Many US servicemen have died in situations like this, simply because they didn’t do what’s necessary to protect themselves.

I don’t know what the facts will show, but US soldiers don’t lounge around checkpoints looking for someone to shoot. It’s possible the Italians thought they were encountering some terrorists–if they were unfamiliar with the area and the procedures, they could easily make a mistake. And it’s equally possible the Italians were taking evasive action to protect their passenger (they are trained to do this). Evasive action to avoid fire is the same, whether you’re a good guy or a bad guy. These troops had split seconds to act, or they might all die, along with a lot of other people who may have been stopped already.

How many of us would allow ourselves to be stopped by unidentified persons on a dark night in some of the rougher areas of US cities? And, if shots are fired, would that make us stop, or speed up? Let’s remember that these soldiers come from the same army that, during the invasion of Iraq, witnessed three of its own risk their lives on a shot-swept bridge in Karbala, simply to pull an elderly Iraqi woman out of the line of fire. I’ll take the word of men and women like that over the testimony of a known anti-American journalist anytime.

Hektor

Mar 6, 2005 - 5:16 pm 55. richard mcenroe:

Sgrena’s story is changing faster than Faye Dunaway’s in Chinatown

Now she says her car was fired on by tanks. Plural.

Hektor, there’s no way you miss tanks blocking a road unless you’re running without lights. And there’s no way you try to force your way past a tank roadblock… or try to outrun tank guns. Besides, now she says they weren’t fired at a checkpoint ó or they wereó without any lights ó or they were lit up ó

Mar 6, 2005 - 7:45 pm 56. ed:

Hmmm.

1. “‘No word has been released yet on whether or not the Italian intelligence service officers had come to Iraq directly from Italy.”

Supposedly the senior agent, the one in back with the journalist, had been involved in the release of a few other kidnapped Italians. Frankly it wouldn’t make any sense to send someone who is completely and totally uninformed with how things work in Iraq. The Italians have had troops in Iraq for quite some time now, there must be a decent sized pool of available intelligence agents to pick from.

2. “How many of us would allow ourselves to be stopped by unidentified persons on a dark night in some of the rougher areas of US cities?”

If they’re heavily armed and in uniform and giving you hand and arm gestures, shining very bright lights onto the road, using armored vehicles (most likely Bradleys or Strykers) and firing warning shots, then I’d imagine I’d stop the car pretty damn quick. I figure it’s probably pretty hard for kidnappers to wrangle up a patrol of armored vehicles so if you see a checkpoint with armored vehicles, then the most likely explanation is that it’s a US military checkpoint.

Probably the most telling sign that you’re at a US military checkpoint is when they shoot out the engine block. I can’t imagine all that many people, aside from American soldiers, in the Middle East having any particular skill at doing that. I can’t imagine anyone really having a need for it as the most common solution seems to be shooting the passenger compartment.

3. “The vehicle driver was approaching a poorly-lit area, in the dark, and all he sees is someone with a rifle waving a flashlight at him, indicating he should stop.”

Now you’re making some serious assumptions that doesn’t have anything to back them. On what grounds are you making the assumption that these soldiers were using nothing more than “flashlights”?

The US military does use flashlights to direct traffic in nighttime operations. This was a common procedure even when I was a Marine infantryman. But the US military does not rely on mere flashlights and instead either uses vehicle mounted arclights or a towed trailer mounting arclights when conducting security based operations.

…

Frankly there is just not enough information at this time to really discuss this. But I’m willing to give the soldiers the benefit of the doubt on this primarily because a road checkpoint is something that probably all soldiers do or have done in Iraq.

Mar 6, 2005 - 7:56 pm 57. Carol_Herman:

You know what is even more surprising? Go back to WWW2. American and British troops, fighting Rommel, were in Africa. We didn’t come to the Continent of Europe, until the Big Red One entered Sicily … You know the area on the map. The bottom of the boot. And, that’s how the Allies began moving the German’s out. But, I’m talking about a time, ten months, or so, before D-Day. June 6, 1944. And, IF Americans were known as loose on the trigger … how come Italians threw roses at our troops? How come Italians knew it was safe to come out in the streets of Italy TO GREET AMERICAN TROOPS? Allied troops. English speakers. Without fear.

And, now an Italian communist says we “shoot like maniacs?” Maybe, the MSM can sell this crap to the arabs (and even though I think they’re having problems at home in being believed.) But Italian minds can be so twisted that no one remembers the thrill of seeing the Americans FINALLY arriving!

Oh, this story has blow-back.

Italians also know every other driver in their country is a speeding lunatic, who could care less which way the traffic is supposed to flow.

Wait until the Italians figure out that MONEY, and millions of it, got this woman out! That she probably wasn’t even a hostage in the first place. They may ask why her head is still attached, if she’s claiming she was abducted by terrorists. Why did money change hands? AND, WHY DID THE ITALIAN GOVERMENT REFUSE TO TELL THE AMERICANS THEY PAID THIS RANSOM? Instead, they told the Americans NOTHING. Set up? Wait till Act Two.

Mar 6, 2005 - 10:19 pm 58. Hermie:

Roger:

This is why she writes for a communist rag instead of Hollywood. Even they would have real problems selling this one.

Her ‘facts’ keep changing and become even more impossible each time.

Hundreds of rounds supposedly were fired and yet, she managed to make it out alive.

Either she was lying, or our troops are incredibly poor shots. Seeing how our troops pulverized the Iraqi army in days, I think Sgrena should be more aptly named Pinnochio.

Mar 7, 2005 - 5:32 am 59. Lola:

My gut feeling is that she was in on this whole thing from the beginning. The sequence of the events, from what I’ve seen here and on LGF, is just too strange. And now I’m seeing on LGF that the Italians paid $10 million in ransom. I want to know – who paid the ransom? Where did the money go? Does this reporter have a secret bank account? Was the government in the know?

Mar 7, 2005 - 6:15 am 60. charlotte:

“So what did this security agent do when he heard the firing?

When the driver said ?they?re attacking us?, one of the [agents] tried to say we?re Italians but it was impossible to get out of the car because the car was under this rain of fire.”

Why would they try to shout out that they were Italians, unless they knew this was a US checkpoint? Terrorists kidnap foreigners, as well they know.

Lola, You just beat me to it! This entire kidnapping episode down to the allegedly huge ransom paid to her “religious” captors toward whom Sgrena is sympathetic and, oh by the way she makes a living from writing and from her notorious activism, is REALLY foul. Another liar for the cause. More American troops and Iraqis will be killed with her blood money.

Mar 7, 2005 - 6:19 am 61. richard mcenroe:

MEMO TO: Roger L. Simon

FROM: Ashton Kutcher, VP of Development, Consensus Media

re: The Sgrena project.

We’re getting a little concerned about meeting our distribution date here. This latest draft of the script still lacks a coherent narrative. My coverage people say they can’t figure out who’s supposed to be doing what to who, or when, or why, and I have to say I’m finding it a bit hard to follow, myself. I know Oliver can fix the continuity problems in the edit but I’d still like to see a cleaner narrative arc before we start production.

C’mon Roger, I know you can do it! You got around that whole machine gun/car alarm thing in The Big Fix so I know you can make sense of this story, even if they keep changing the outline on you as they go along (latest note: Susan wants to appear more sympathetic, so can you downplay the ransom angle a little)!

Looking forward to having draft seven read.

ó A.

Mar 7, 2005 - 6:59 am 62. Carol_Herman:

Unlike most journalists who stay in hotels when real solders are outside doing battle; the “floozy” found a dead body on top of her. She still has to live with this. Even if the Italian government is working both sides of the street. Supplying “special agents” to bring millions into terrorist hands; the guy who did this is DEAD. REALLY DEAD. Wrong dead person. If Eason Jordan was hoping to create, an on the ground scenario, to show the world that American’s kill journalists … The lady ain’t dead.

And, she’s got a lot of “splaining” to do. In Italy. Where it wasn’t so long ago that American troops were in the streets (1943), and the women came out and through flowers on our soldiers. Took our soldiers to bed. Made love to our soldiers. And, everyone was so pleased to see them, no one was shooting on our troops from hidden positions in alleyways.

Her story stinks. It has enemies to ponder. And, writing opportunities, galore. Because there’s a DEAD BODY DROPPING RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING. What was going on?

Mar 7, 2005 - 9:43 am 63. jukeboxgrad:

Some people are claiming the US didn’t know she was on her way to the airport, even though there’s a variety of evidence contrary to that.

This Washington Times report is trying to argue that the US was in the dark, but, ironically enough, it includes substantive information that indicates otherwise:

“Mr. Calipari and another senior SISMI operative concluded the deal for her release on Friday in Abu Dhabi and then flew to Baghdad aboard a secret service Falcon executive jet to collect her, La Stampa said. At the airport, they met an Italian military liaison officer and U.S. military authorities issued them passes allowing them to travel around Baghdad carrying weapons, the newspaper said citing SISMI sources. The sources said the Italians explained ‘the terms of the mission’ and ‘the exact nature of the operation’ to U.S. officials at the airport. Sources also said an American officer was instructed to wait at the airport for Mr. Calipari and the freed hostage.” Several reports described this American officer as a colonel.

In other words, Calipari had been at the airport just a few hours earlier. Waiting at the airport was an Italian jet and an American officer. And we’re supposed to believe that troops patrolling the airport road weren’t told to be on the lookout for a car carrying certain important people? And to be careful about opening fire on our allies? At best, that seems like gross negligence and incompetence.

Another indication that the US knew about Sgrena’s release is that it was public information. This Reuters story (announcing Sgrena’s release) was filed at 8:48 PM, local time. According to the US, the attack took place at 8:55. In other words, the fact of Sgrena’s release was public information at least seven minutes before the attack took place. This is another indication that her approach to the airport was not exactly a closely guarded secret. To put this differently, it’s not a good sign if Reuters knows more about important events on the ground in Iraq than the US military does.

Note that our government doesn’t seem to mind lying about this: “U.S. officials said the Italians failed to inform military or diplomatic officials that Sgrena was on her way to the airport.” Given that an Italian jet had arrived that day at the airport, how can we claim we didn’t know what was happening?

More dissembling from our government: “At the White House, a spokesman said the origin of the incident lay in ‘a lack of co-ordination’ between the Italians and the Americans. It was said that the Americans were not informed about the progress of negotiations with the hostage-takers, and were not aware that Ms Sgrena had been freed.”

Right. An American officer and an Italian jet were waiting at the airport for Sgrena. Reuters had the news that she had been freed. But the Americans “were not aware.”

There is also an interesting common-sense perspective on the question of checkpoints. According to Sgrena, the attack occurred when she was only 700 meters from the civilian entrance to the airport. (700 meters is 766 yards or 0.43 miles.) I’ve seen no one claim otherwise. The road to the airport is approximately 6 miles long. In other words (if Sgrena is correct about the location, and no one has claimed she’s not), Sgrena had already safely traveled over about 93% of this road, before she was attacked. And undoubtedly the first five-and-a-half miles of this road, over which she travelled safely, were guarded by any number of US troops who were well-aware of her car going by and (by all accounts) made no effort to impede her travel in any way.

In other words, if for any reason it was felt to be important to stop and check her car, surely this would have been done before she got within less than half-a-mile of the airport. Conversely, the occupants of the car would surely not expect that they would suddenly be blocked just 700 meters from the airport, given that there had apparently been no effort whatsover to stop them in their first 5.6 miles of travel on this road.

An interesting personal perspective on this can be found in a freeper post, by someone who surely is no friend of Sgrena’s, and also claims to be familiar with this road. The post says “once its inside the checkpoint, no American unit is going to fire on anyone else without getting fired on first…I know because we used to fly down the roads to the airport virtually every single day … I would bet it was a static checkpoint but the distance is more than 1000 yards from the entrance to the civilian side of the airport.”

This person seems to be claiming that once you’re within 1000 yards of the airport, you’ve passed any potential checkpoints. This person also seems to be claiming that it would be very unusual to open fire without very clear provocation.

This WSJ article offers helpful information about the airport road, and also indicates that “exceedingly strict rules of engagement” are the norm. The article quotes an named officer who states “even if you’re hit with an IED or an ambush, you need to see someone holding a weapon or a triggering device before you engage.”

Also, it’s helpful to understand that Calipari was no idiot. He was the top Italian intelligence agent in Iraq. He had two other men

in the car with him. He had been instrumental in other hostage extractions in the past. It’s simply not plausible to suggest that these three men would not have known how to recognize a clearly-marked checkpoint, or would have been ignorant with regard to how to safely approach a clearly-marked checkpoint.

At the very least, it appears that there was a very major failure of communications and discipline. Recall that we’re supposed to be there, in part, to protect Iraqis. How can they feel safe if we’re shooting our allies?

Very few media reports are mentioning that there was apparently another deadly friendly-fire incident on Friday night.

This article is very helpful background on the nature of checkpoints.

More background on the airport road here.

Mar 7, 2005 - 10:30 am 64. Dafydd ab Hugh:

Jukeboxgrad is working his way up to charging that there was indeed a diabolical murder attempt by the thuggish and demonic (yet clumsy and incompetent) American assassins to silence the sweet voice of Communist reason that would surely have brought down the Bush administration, had it only been allowed to speak.

Whoops, it was allowed to speak! So what does it have to say? What is the terrible secret that Sgrena will reveal that will cause incalculable damage to the Bushitler wehrmacht? Tune in tomorrow for the next exciting episode of As the Conspiracy Turns!

Dafydd

Mar 7, 2005 - 1:52 pm 65. Carol_Herman:

Calipari is now a DARWIN AWARD CANDIDATE.

Italian opera lovers add soap when they hear a story that a women “screaming I AM AN ITALIANO” at the top of her lungs, can really be heard on stage, as background noises fill with shots of massive ordnannce flying around.

Am I missing something? Hasn’t the MSM suffered another blow to their own “talking heads.” Their heads just keep bobbing along.

And, in Iraq, when a good movie opens, we will see Baghdad Bob commenting on how “there are no American troops in the streets of Baghdad.”

And, when story interest heats up, we will get this Italian floozy, and her bagman dropping dead right on top of her. WHere in Journalism school is it taught “you carry in $6 million, and the terrorists who take your money set you up for some sort of target practice?

Let alone to the hits Italian drivers are now taking. WAIT. WAIT. NASCAR’S COMING! We can show those dirty Italians a trick or two when real drivers are behind the wheel.

Or we can watch the MSM continue to try and blame everything, including the weather, on Bush.

I LOVE MY PRESIDENT. And, I think the bloggers have scored another victory. While Eason Jordan still hasn’t told us, by releasing the Davos tape, just what he did say about our wonderful soldiers.

SOON THE STORY COMES TO A THEATER NEAR YOU. Will it be like a Mel Gibson film? Earning hundreds of millions, but passed on by starving studios? Or will we finally see Academy Award performances setting the moving going public on fire with a real desire to see this on film? Otherwise, the Candidate of the Year DARWIN AWARD WINNER should be Calipari.

Folks, we’ve won this round. What color polish rounds out our nails?

Mar 7, 2005 - 2:26 pm 66. jukeboxgrad:

I notice you’d rather hide behind sarcasm, as compared with attempting to say anything remotely substantive regarding where you disagree with my facts.

Speaking of avoiding facts, it’s not a good sign for your argument that the best you can do is hyperbole and ridicule, which I notice comes to you quite easily even though the subject matter is deadly serious.

And speaking of making light of things that aren’t funny, I notice you throw around the idea of fascism as if it’s some kind of a joke. You should have a talk with the raving moonbats over at a magazine called The American Conservative. They’re not laughing. Likewise for the well-known pinko subversive Lew Rockwell. You should let them in on what’s tickling your funnybone.

“What is the terrible secret that Sgrena will reveal”

Maybe more of what she’s already revealed. Some people give her credit for being “one of the first journalists to collect evidence of rape among women detainees at Abu Ghraib.” It’s also possible she has done further investigation regarding her charges of napalm use in Fallujah.

Speaking of rape, note that it’s very recently been revealed that soldiers in a unit of the 3rd Infantry Division were under investigation for rape (and variety of other abuses) a while back. The soldiers who attacked Sgrena were also apparently “with the 3rd Infantry.”

Speaking of interesting coincidences, the attack on Sgrena happened at virtually the same moment that the Army released a large new batch of FOIA documents, including documents regarding the aforementioned investigation of a unit of the 3rd Infantry.

Note that only three countries (US, UK and S. Korea) have more foreign troops in Iraq than Italy does. And in Italy domestic support for the war has been very shaky. By the way, Sgrena is read widely in Europe, not just in her own paper, but in other major papers such as Die Zeit. And it seems that unlike certain folks here (like you, perhaps), there are lots of folks in Europe who are just the sort of girlie-men to actually feel concern when they read about rape and other forms of abuse.

Anyway, nice job trying to argue that no one in our angelic government or military could possibly have a reason to silence or intimidate her.

“yet clumsy and incompetent”

It wouldn’t exactly be the first time we executed a plan and it didn’t turn out quite the way we expected. Maybe a hasty and opportunistic decision was made, at the expense of ignoring basic flaws in the plan. “As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.”

Mar 8, 2005 - 8:35 am 67. zeeman:

The Bahgdad airport road is one of the most dangerous in Iraq. Tom Apfel of NBC News reported from Bahgdad that the road is closed to traffic from 8 PM until 6 AM. Anyone using it then is required to make prior notification of their intent to the military. Apparently these three yo-yos did not do this, or perhaps did not even know of the requirement. In this case the term Italian Intelligence is an oxymoron.

Mar 8, 2005 - 11:26 am 68. M. Simon:

juke,

Lew Rockwell is a man who claims to stand for principle.

He admits that the rights of free association and contract are greater than states rights. Yet he thinks slavery was Okey Doke. I wouldn’t take him too seriously. Unless you are a secret slaver.

BTW the vaunted American military in a hail of 400 (according to the authoress) bullets from some type of armored vehicle that left numerous spent bullets on the seat of the vehicle managed to kill only one person. I’d call that a failure of gun control. The guns were not under enough control to hit the target. Or perhaps the only target was the driver of a vehicle that refused to stop when ordered. In that case I’d say the gun control was excellet.

I still like Roger’s idea. A double cross.

Mar 8, 2005 - 12:09 pm 69. jukeboxgrad:

“Anyone using it [the airport road] then is required to make prior notification of their intent to the military. Apparently these three yo-yos did not do this”

Nice job sticking to the party line that the US was in the dark about the whole thing. Don’t bother explaining how this is possible, since an Italian jet and an American officer were waiting for Sgrena at the airport. Also, don’t bother explaining how it is that prior to the attack, Reuters had already announced her release, but we somehow didn’t know about it. (I guess it’s comforting to know that Reuters has more up-to-date information about important events on the ground in Iraq, compared with our military.)

Also, don’t bother explaining why three experienced intelligence agents would take the very ignorant and suicidal step of ignoring a clearly-marked US checkpoint (unless there was no checkpoint).

Also don’t bother explaining why, according to all acounts I’ve seen, they had already traveled over five miles on this heavily-patrolled airport road and no attempt had previously been made to stop them or check them.

By the way, today the Italian Foreign Minister (Fini) told the Italian House of Representatives that the US account doesn’t add up. According to Fini:

1) The officer at the wheel knew Baghdad very well.

2) The car was traveling at less than 17 MPH at the time the attack occurred.

3) There was no checkpoint.

4) The attack occurred as the car was moving slowly around a sharp turn. (In my opinion, this is consistent with the design of an ambush, and not consistent with the design of a checkpoint.)

5) Shooting started with virtually no warning, immediately after the car was illuminated by a floodlight.

6) The driver could see from tracer rounds that fire was being directed at the occupants’ chest and legs.

7) Several automatic weapons were fired for about 15 seconds.

Audio of Fini’s statement (in Italian) can be found here. An unofficial translation of it can be found here. By the way, Fini is hardly a leftist. He’s a leading figure in a government that has been very friendly to Bush.

“managed to kill only one person”

One dead, one seriously injured, one moderately injured (Sgrena apparently suffered a bone fracture and a bruised lung), one uninjured.

According to Fini, the fire came from a shoulder to the side of the vehicle. My guess is that the two people sitting on that side of the vehicle were the ones who were killed and seriously injured (respectively).

“some type of armored vehicle”

There’s good reason to wonder what kind of vehicle(s) were involved, if any. It’s true that Sgrena is reported to have said something about a “tank” or “tanks.” Keep in mind, however, this is probably some kind of translation from Italian. Also keep in mind it was nighttime, it was raining, and a moment before the fire started a bright floodlight was pointed at her vehicle. And then she was dealing with bullets flying and a man dying in her arms. So it’s understandable if she had a hard time seeing clearly what kind of vehicle(s) were used in the attack.

Also, some reports indicate she was kept at the scene for some time after the attack, so it’s possible she was making a statement about vehicles she saw during that time.

I think examining the car will reveal a lot. I think it’s interesting that at least one early report creates the impression that the military did not want reporters to see the car. I saw a more recent report indicating the car is on its way to Italy.

“I wouldn’t take [Rockwell] too seriously. Unless you are a secret slaver.”

Exactly. Thanks for helping me make my point. Rockwell is no leftist, and yet he’s not shy about raising a warning about fascism.

Mar 8, 2005 - 2:04 pm 70. M. Simon:

juke,

Lew Rockwell thinks Lincoln was a fascist.

Are you down with that? As I said Lew’s opinions are not too reliable when he spouts one principle and supports another.

Who knows what he means by fascism? Colored folks allowed to vote? That would be my take based on numerous conversations I had with Lew before the war.

In any case Lew like most of what is left of “official” Libertarians today spouts the communist party line on “American imperialism”. I left the communists in my youth and joined the Libs to avoid that sort of world view. I find it interesting that these days the Libs have so much in common with the communists.

So you can call me a neocon because there was a time when I was a Democrat. And I’m Jewish to boot.

In any case it is no surprise to me that Lew supports the leftist position. Lew was always against American intervention and liberation of the subjugated. Starting with 1861. At least.

He thought FDR was a fascist too.

Wilson as well. And that other Roosevelt – Teddy.

In fact I think if you check with Lew personally he will be unable to name a non-fascist American President since 1900 or perhaps before. In any case he would definitely put Lincoln in that category.

I’m still trying to figure out why with hundreds of bullets shot the car is in such good condition. And why Segregina is still alive.

Her story does not fit the evidence.

Neither does yours.

Mar 9, 2005 - 4:58 am 71. Carol_Herman:

The car was hydroplaning on puddles. Sgrena, herself, says they broke in laughter; thinking if the car crashed (because the driver lost control), they’d get an exit they hadn’t bargained for.

Estimates now say the car was traveling at 100 mph. But aren’t roads marked in kilometers?

Anyway, if I called this story A DOUBLE WHOPPER, whould that be considered a slur?

Mar 9, 2005 - 6:00 pm

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