47 Comments

1. Terrye:

Well I will be danged. If Richardson is saying this whatever will Ted Kennedy do?

Mar 7, 2005 - 9:13 am 2. Richard Nieporent:

Will Howard Dean be far behind?

Yes!

Mar 7, 2005 - 9:19 am 3. neo-neocon:

Ever more proof of the correctness of the domino effect–this time, in the liberal press. Where one goes, the others tend to follow–down, down that slippery slope (hmmm, is that a mixed metaphor?) If they don’t watch out, next they’ll turn into neocons ( neo-neocons, that is)!

Mar 7, 2005 - 9:20 am 4. Wallace:

I pay a lot of property taxes in New Mexico…..glad to see I’m finally getting my monies worth. I’ll have to stop by and say thanks Governor Bill next time I’m in Santa Fe.

Mar 7, 2005 - 9:23 am 5. alcibiades:

How strange it must be for these liberals to have to face the fact that they were not liberal after all.

I don’t think they faced that at all. Richardson, I noted, suggested that the positive fallout from the Bush policy “may be accidental”. Snort! This will no doubt become the rallying cry of the liberals. Along with, “it was going to happen anyway. Bush is just claiming credit.”

That, after all, is exactly what happened with the fall of the Berlin Wall. To this day many liberals swear it had nothing to do with Reagan.

Besides. they’ll probably tell themselves that without their constant criticisms, Iraq would have been all about Halliburton.

To paraphrase that French guy:

They learn nothing and they remember nothing.

Mar 7, 2005 - 9:29 am 6. Keith_Indy:

Looks like they’ve all aligned and “recalibrated” their talking points…

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2005/03/07/changes_in_mideast_blunt_bushs_critics/

Senator Edward M. Kennedy, one of the most strident opponents of the administration, said yesterday that President Bush deserved credit for what seems to be a tentative awakening of democracy in the region.

”What’s taken place in a number of those countries is enormously constructive,” the Massachusetts Democrat said on the ABC news program ”This Week.”

”It’s a reflection the president has been involved.”

As recently as six weeks ago, in a speech at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies, Kennedy was far more confrontational.

”We have reached the point that a prolonged American military presence in Iraq is no longer productive for either Iraq or the United States,” he said, calling for a phased US withdrawal and comparing the ongoing involvement in Iraq with the quagmire the United States found itself in a generation ago in Vietnam.

But yesterday, Kennedy’s comments, in both tone and content, amounted to a striking recalibration of his earlier stance.

While Kennedy reiterated his earlier call for an eventual US troop pullout, his language was milder and less urgent. He emphasized that any timetable for withdrawal needed first to be agreed upon with the Iraq’s new government.

”That’s the direction we want to go,” Kennedy said. ”It does seem to me that we want the Iraqis to know it is their country. They’ve demonstrated that with the election.”

Mar 7, 2005 - 9:33 am 7. Keith_Indy:

Isn’t it nice that the Democrats can see the writting on the wall in their rearview mirror…

Mar 7, 2005 - 9:34 am 8. yama-arashi:

“Will Howard Dean be far behind? Yes!” Yes , but maybe not “Yes!” I’m glad to see Democrats taking this line. But the question has to be what the Democrats would have done if they had been in power. Or, what they will do the next time they are in power (–let it not be so). These are merely strategic, rhetorical flourishes; the Dems with regards to foreign policy remain the Dems. If given the keys the Albrights and Soderbergs and their ilk are eating late-night pizzas in the White House.

Mar 7, 2005 - 10:26 am 9. ahem:

Boy, you know you’re on to a hot idea when it penetrates the several thicknesses of Kennedy’s skull. I guess that leaves Howard with the entire fringe Left all to himself. It also demonstrates what a powerful role conformity plays in the Dems’ thinking. Since their whole raison d’etre is the emotion of moral righteousness, they actually require only one person to do the thinking for them in order for them to change direction, much like a school of fish. In this case, it was the editorial in the New York Times.

Mar 7, 2005 - 10:33 am 10. Richard Nieporent:

Point well taken yama-arashi.

My challenge to the U.N. and Europe is simple: if you don’t like American diplomacy under George Bush, then do something to show those of us in opposition here in the U.S. that you can behave in such a way that unilateralism is not necessary.

However, it appears that Dean will not go down without a fight. He understands how craven the UN is and he still is not willing to admit he was wrong.

Mar 7, 2005 - 10:41 am 11. Knucklehead:

Wow, Ted Kennedy somehow, someway, spent a sober moment and said something other than, “Get me a drink!” Wonders never cease.

Mar 7, 2005 - 10:49 am 12. erp:

Richardson is a wholly owned subsidiary of Senator Clinton and what he’s doing is some very early advance work for her presidential campaign of 2008. I’ve been predicting all along that Richardson would be Hillary’s running mate. He’s alleged Hispanic and a very loyal lap dog.

Mar 7, 2005 - 10:52 am 13. Barry Dauphin:

Somewhat OT. Reuters-Via LGF, apparently the Taliban have pooped out for the moment. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20050307/wl_nm/afghan_omar_dc

But my favorite line from the article is: “Taliban spokesmen have said attacks will resume once the harsh Afghan winter is over.” I thought we were the ones who were going to have problems with the harsh Afghan winter. ‘Tis the winter of discontent of the Dean-Gore crowd.

Mar 7, 2005 - 11:05 am 14. yama-arashi:

I couldn’t agree with you more Richard. This has nothing to do with anything intrinsic. But someone is giving them advice, and some of them are listening. Perhaps they think they are throwing crumbs to Roger and the rest like him (not to imply anyone is comparable to Roger, but you get the drift). But it will backfire. In a way it adds insult to injury. The last election was more than anything else, in my humble opinion, about the millions of Rogers (again, no offense meant) who abandoned the Dems. The problem is that folks like that are not easily deceived (again?). Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. On the other hand most Americans aren’t born elephants, and their memories may be short. Again, what will the Dems. do if given power? Nothing being said leads me to believe the Soderbergs of the world won’t be running things. Give me Bolton and Condi any day.

Mar 7, 2005 - 11:14 am 15. Sandy P:

–”That’s the direction we want to go,” Kennedy said. ”It does seem to me that we want the Iraqis-(Germans-Sorks-Italians) to know it is their country. They’ve demonstrated that with the election(s).”

Mar 7, 2005 - 11:15 am 16. Sandy P:

Richardson has to come back from running the Dept of Energy(?).

Remember that?

Any chance of 2000 VP was out the window.

Mar 7, 2005 - 11:16 am 17. Catherine:

Wow.

I have to get to the after-school program, so haven’t got time to read the comments here, but I find this almost unfathomable.

After reading Beinart’s weekend op-ed in the POST, as well as the discussion amongst Beinart, Tomasky & Vanden Heuvel in the TIMES Book Review, I sure wasn’t expecting anything like this.

The Book Review roundtable was especially startling in that there was no mention of the Iraqi elections at all.

It was as if the election had never happened.

Mar 7, 2005 - 12:12 pm 18. kynna:

I don’t think the ‘Times’ or anyone else is changing. I feel the same way about these political hacks as my post about Jumblatt and his “change of heart.” Opportunists all of them, which would be fine if they wanted to take the opportunity to protect America or make a better future for the world. But if their past behavior is any indication, they want the opportunity to get back in power so they can give us more of the same garbage they gave us for so long.

Sorry, not buying it.

Mar 7, 2005 - 12:30 pm 19. Mr. Davis:

The Democrats must have gotten some very disturbing polling results las Friday.

Mar 7, 2005 - 12:32 pm 20. Carol_Herman:

Roger – Brag! Brag! We got on the train before it left the station. Ah. My clichÈ for the day.

Mar 7, 2005 - 12:55 pm 21. yama-arashi:

Carol,

And you’re sitting in first class. (oops, class warfare.)

Mar 7, 2005 - 1:06 pm 22. neo-neocon:

So Ted Kennedy has recanted. By implication, anyway. Before I saw this, I was going to make some sort of joke like, “Who’s next, Ted Kennedy?” Now I guess I’ll have to change it to “Who’s next, Ted Rall?”

But what the Democrats don’t realize (and I speak as a lifelong member of the Democratic party who has only left the fold in the last two years or so) is how this sudden turnabout looks to those of us who have followed their pronouncements and prognostications on Iraq for the past couple of years. It makes them look like hypocritical weathervanes who lack any ability to make independent, reasoned judgments, predictions, and evaluations–except retrospectively, and even then they seem rather slow to get the point.

Mar 7, 2005 - 1:37 pm 23. Rick Ballard:

Yama,

I keep wondering why the guy walking behind the elephants with shovel and wheelbarrow calls himself a drum major. Even stranger are the people who appear to believe that he’s a drum major. A matter of grave indifference to the vast majority, but odd nevertheless.

Mar 7, 2005 - 1:39 pm 24. yama-arashi:

Rick,

I’m not quite sure what you are saying and feel guilty having alluded to elephants in my comment above. These two kinds of people, names names, or at least open up the door to your esotericism an inch or two more. I’m slow on the uptake. And don’t forget the delicious part about the “grave indifference to the vast majority.” Scratch that, it really isn’t your job to spell out what I should have figured out for myself. Now having made a fool of myself, like the only one who doesn’t get a perfectly good joke, I think I’ll cry.

Mar 7, 2005 - 2:18 pm 25. Carol_Herman:

The guy behind the elephant had a job title?

Mar 7, 2005 - 2:34 pm 26. Carol_Herman:

OT ALERT! Recently Beldar mentioned his love for the Noah routine that Bill Cosby did. In the days when you bought this stuff on vinyl. He called it “RIIGHT.” I love Beldar. So I put this old track on my player. To hear about how God called down to Noah. To tell him to build an ark. “What’s an ark?” And, the instructions continued with cubits. What’s a cubit? Ah, what pleasure … the routine goes on … showing you that you can do comedy in an envirnment where kids can be present. And, towards the end … where all the questions answers from God are met with “RIIGHT” … There’s this pregnant, elephant on the ramp, see? Going is as “one” but plopping out a 2. Confusing Noah. And, getting Noah to cry out he should’a been warned. RIIGHT.

Mar 7, 2005 - 2:38 pm 27. Rick Ballard:

Yama,

I was referring to your reply to Carol’s cliche. Upon re-reading I realize that the non-certifiable may have some problems following my train of thought (lack of tracks and all).

Within six months the Times and various and sundry Dems will be declaring that they always supported OIF and worked assiduously towards its positive outcome. In five years the same parties will claim to have led the effort (vide Clinton, balanced budget). I was simply (and poorly) pointing out that the usual suspects are preparing the ground for another sprint to the front of the parade. Remember, we’ve always been at war with Oceania – anyone who pays attention to the Times can tell you that.

I have to stop now as I am well into Wednesday’s quota of cliches. My apologies.

Mar 7, 2005 - 2:46 pm 28. Skookumchuk:

And another thing.

Karie Couric makes a lot more money than I do and according to Roger she is “reified”. Is this the reason?

So how can I get “reified”? Can I take night classes at my local community college?

Mar 7, 2005 - 2:49 pm 29. Yehudit:

Paul Wolfowitz can have the last laugh any time, as far as I care. I have an enormous crush on that man. Aside from his intellect and menslichayt, he is exactly my type physically.

Mar 7, 2005 - 2:51 pm 30. Rick Ballard:

Skoocumchuk,

I think reification can only be achieved through action of the College of Reactionaries. Brain death is a prerequisite so I wouldn’t be in a hurry. And then again, there are so very many candidates currently under examination that rising above the crowd requires an act of transcendant stupidity. Katie just makes it look easy (like Dan and Ward).

Mar 7, 2005 - 3:11 pm 31. Rick Ballard:

Skookumchuk.

Priveew hides again.

Mar 7, 2005 - 3:13 pm 32. Skookumchuk:

Even though it’s prolly ’bout the seventh time you’ve done that, you’re still OK, Rick.

And I thought you were automatically reified with a BA from UC Santa Barbara.

Mar 7, 2005 - 3:20 pm 33. yama-arashi:

Rick,

No apologies necessary. All my fault. Having mentioned an elephant in my comment and then having gotten an elephant in your reply I thought we were speaking in code. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. I then started deciphering your message, but all I got was: ” Licorice and shoe polish.” I called Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Headquarters but all the lines were busy, hence the “vast.” Anyway, to make a long story short, it was just a simple mistake on my part.

Mar 7, 2005 - 3:23 pm 34. yama-arashi:

Mr. Davis,

I think you are right.

Mar 7, 2005 - 3:26 pm 35. Catherine:

Mr. Davis

The Democrats must have gotten some very disturbing polling results las Friday.

LOL!

I’ll say.

I also wonder whether we’re seeing a distinction between ‘media elites’ and ‘pundit elites.’

People like Katie Couris, Jon Stewart, Tina Brown, Bill Maher (remember his line about the election being ‘Hands Across Iraq’?) are in the business of appealing to huge numbers of people at the same time. Otherwise they’re out of business.

People like Beinart, Tomasky & Vanden Heuvel don’t write for a mass audience.

I think I’ve been noticing that the Jon Stewart types have had fairly instantaneous recognition of the sea change Roger has talked about—–or at the very least they’ve perceived a sea change in the perceptions of the American people.

Fascinating that Ted Kennedy is taking this line.

Mar 7, 2005 - 3:46 pm 36. Catherine:

That’s Katie Couric.

Mar 7, 2005 - 3:47 pm 37. Rick Ballard:

And I thought you were automatically reified with a BA from UC Santa Barbara.

Only if one joins the corps diplomatique upon graduation.

Mar 7, 2005 - 3:49 pm 38. Terrye:

Ted Kennedy?? Will wonders never cease?

However, he is still supporting John Kerry in 08. One can only ask so much.

Mar 7, 2005 - 4:23 pm 39. Kevin P:

Roger:

I agree with many of the previous post’s that the left is beginning the process of creating the myth that Bush had little or nothing to do with the flowering of democracy in the ME. After the Iraqi election I saw a democratic flack claiming that Sistani forced Bush into holding the election. It is true that Bush was going to delay the elections by a couple months. But the very side that was praisng Sistani didn’t want the election held at all. It was the conventional wisdom of the bulk of the Democrats and the majority of the op-ed sections of the MSM that the creation of the interim government was premature, Then when Bush was holding fast to a January election most of them howled that Bush was being stubborn and he was refusing to see what the majority of the left and the UN considered reality that the elections could not be held with the security situation as it was. MSM and the Dems to Bush. The interim government is a US stooge operation and will not willingly give up power. The january elections are a pipe dream and will be a failure. Bush is stubborn and refuses to face the truth. Iraqi elections are a smashing success. Well things are not as rosy as they appear and Bush deserves no credit for ignoring our foolish advice and we really supported the elections anyway. Reactionaries never let facts get in they way of their rhetoric.

P.S.- Chris Matthews has breaking news. Al Gore will not run in 2008. Congratulations on being two years behind the blogs on political news Chris!

Mar 7, 2005 - 4:51 pm 40. richard mcenroe:

“The guy behind the elephant had a job title?”

Hey, don’t be dissin’ great-granpa. Work was hard to come straight off the boat…

And the Democrats are coming around?

Too late.

Isn’t there an old Democratic slogan: “Who was with me before Chicago?”

When they could have stood with the Administration and troops, when it counted, before the world, they were frothing at the mouth with Ted or sniveling about how we could have brought that statue down for a lot less money with Nancy *stare* Pelosi.

My votes in ‘06 and ‘08 will be votes to hold the Democratic party accountable.

Mar 7, 2005 - 6:12 pm 41. chuck:

…they actually require only one person to do the thinking for them in order for them to change direction, much like a school of fish.

I strongly disagree. The behavior of schools of fish is actually pretty interesting…

Mar 7, 2005 - 6:13 pm 42. Kyda Sylvester:

Is it a sincere (sea) change of heart and mind or mere political contrivance (the turnabout by Ted Kennedy is just a little too stark)? This jury is still out. I want to see somebody walk the walk.

Mar 7, 2005 - 6:52 pm 43. Kyda Sylvester:

I should add, even if it is sincere, I’m with richard mcenroe.

Mar 7, 2005 - 7:05 pm 44. bkochba:

He’s positioning himself for a run.

I hate to be a grump, but this is VERY careful:

” Well, it is working. Whether by design, or by accident, it is working. The fact that the President has spoken out, where in the past the US policy has winked at Saudi Arabia, or Egypt, because of their massive security, and we have energy interests there, we have military bases, we kind of said, “OK, it’s alright not to be democratic. The President, in talking about freedom and democracy, is sparking a wave of very positive democratic sentiment that might help us override both Islamic fundamentalism that has formed in that region, and also some of the hatred for our policies of invading Iraq.”

He is NOT crediting the invasion of Iraq – just Bush “speaking out” about democracy. As a matter of fact, this speaking out is doing a great deal to relieve the “hatred for our policies of invading Iraq.” It’s not, say, that invading Iraq and having free elections there convinced people that Islamic fundamentalism might be overriden and that our policy of invading Iraq was well intentioned. It’s all in the “speaking out.”

Mar 7, 2005 - 8:03 pm 45. Abe of Lincoln:

From the Kennedy article:

“A dramatic string of positive developments in the Middle East in recent weeks seems to have deflated fierce criticism of the Bush administration’s conduct of the war in Iraq.”

Translation:

“A dramatic string of positive developments in the Middle East in recent weeks seems to have ruined the coverage of the Bush administration’s conduct of the war in Iraq.”

Mar 7, 2005 - 10:36 pm 46. 2468:

I for one am pleased to see the Democrats are finally getting on the foreign policy bandwagon. If they can co-opt that issue, it forces the Republicans to run a moderate like Arnold (if possible) or Condi, rather than a Santorum-like figure. That is… if they want to win instead of maintaining ideological purity.

I would believe the Democrat change of heart a lot more if they would actually sponsor some aggressive foreign policy bills. For instance, somehow attempting to reign in Saudi funding of (Wahhabist) madrassas worldwide, and especially in America.

But I don’t put it past the Democrats to return to the centre. It is notable that Truman was furious at Churchill following the Iron Curtain speech, but within a year or two had enunciated the Truman doctrine. Which was followed for decades later by virtually every American president, repub or dem. Much as the democrats are co-opting the Bush doctrine.

If someone like Hillary runs for pres, it’s going to be a tight race. The republicans would be forced to run a centrist or lose. Such a result can only be good for democracy, and it would be a strong rap on the knuckles for Christians who think it was “moral values” that turned the election to Bush, and that they can erode the church/state separation.

Mar 7, 2005 - 11:45 pm 47. Percy Dovetonsils:

Paul Wolfowitz can have the last laugh any time, as far as I care.

I’m hoping he gets some vindication, too. The alumni magazine from the U. of Chicago ran an article on Wolfowitz recently. In more recent issues, the magazine printed a series of letters to the editors that criticized the article and vilified the man. I remember one letter in particularly comparing Wolfowitz to a gangster and the administration to la Cosa Nostra. It was just a parade of vicious attacks on the guy.

So, yes, I hope he does get some vindication in his lifetime.

Mar 8, 2005 - 7:33 am

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