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	<title>Comments on: Bravo, Taiwan!</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Buddy Larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43504</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2005 05:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Eric, you&#039;re right about disproportionality...but most of the writing on that thread is by people who hope maybe somebody will notice and add that little extra to maybe un-snafu-ing that mess before the clock runs out and we&#039;re ALL stuck with bad results. No, the Taiwan demos are huge news, of course...but remote for the nonce.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, you&#8217;re right about disproportionality&#8230;but most of the writing on that thread is by people who hope maybe somebody will notice and add that little extra to maybe un-snafu-ing that mess before the clock runs out and we&#8217;re ALL stuck with bad results. No, the Taiwan demos are huge news, of course&#8230;but remote for the nonce.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Deamer</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43503</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Deamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2005 01:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Again, look at the number of comments for this post versus the Schiavo one. That&#039;s the sad story of blogs.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, look at the number of comments for this post versus the Schiavo one. That&#8217;s the sad story of blogs.</p>
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		<title>By: M. Simon</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43502</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 05:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think it is up to every loyal American to support the one China policy. It is official American Policy and is official Bejing policy.



I think that one China ought to be governed by the Taiwan Constitution with suitable modifications.



You see looked at correctly it is an excellent policy.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is up to every loyal American to support the one China policy. It is official American Policy and is official Bejing policy.</p>
<p>I think that one China ought to be governed by the Taiwan Constitution with suitable modifications.</p>
<p>You see looked at correctly it is an excellent policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Macker</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43501</link>
		<dc:creator>Macker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 03:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43501</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t it piss the ChiComs off to no end if, during Taiwan&#039;s demonstrations, those who favor democracy unveil a replica of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_Democracy&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Goddess of Democracy&lt;/a&gt;!?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it piss the ChiComs off to no end if, during Taiwan&#8217;s demonstrations, those who favor democracy unveil a replica of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess_of_Democracy" rel="nofollow">Goddess of Democracy</a>!?</p>
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		<title>By: Knucklehead</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43500</link>
		<dc:creator>Knucklehead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 02:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43500</guid>
		<description>There have been some 12,000 American casualties in Iraq of which ~1,500 have died.



What have they died and suffered such grievous wounds for?  To give hope (no, not hope - backbone) to MILLIONS who now may engage in the struggle to end the tyranny they suffer under.  &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;Not in Your Name?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There have been some 12,000 American casualties in Iraq of which ~1,500 have died.</p>
<p>What have they died and suffered such grievous wounds for?  To give hope (no, not hope &#8211; backbone) to MILLIONS who now may engage in the struggle to end the tyranny they suffer under.  <b><i>Not in Your Name?</i></b></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin P</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43499</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 02:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Roger:



As long as the current regime is in power on the mainland the government in Taiwan can&#039;t declare independence. That is the only reason China can legally invade. When we signed onto the One China idea we doomed Taiwans ability to officially declare independence. They can rule themselves for a indefinite period as long as they don&#039;t declare it openly. Taiwan can go to reconcilliation meetings and feign interest and keep the status qou.The absurdity of fact that Taiwan can only keep their freedom by not stating it publicly is too ironic to believe but that is the way it is. And as far as any economic or actual warfare with the US you can&#039;t forget that this is a country that has had millions of self inflicted deaths this century and is perfectly capable of of submitting it&#039;s populace to that fate again.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger:</p>
<p>As long as the current regime is in power on the mainland the government in Taiwan can&#8217;t declare independence. That is the only reason China can legally invade. When we signed onto the One China idea we doomed Taiwans ability to officially declare independence. They can rule themselves for a indefinite period as long as they don&#8217;t declare it openly. Taiwan can go to reconcilliation meetings and feign interest and keep the status qou.The absurdity of fact that Taiwan can only keep their freedom by not stating it publicly is too ironic to believe but that is the way it is. And as far as any economic or actual warfare with the US you can&#8217;t forget that this is a country that has had millions of self inflicted deaths this century and is perfectly capable of of submitting it&#8217;s populace to that fate again.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Dauphin</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43498</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Dauphin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 02:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, despite all the bellowing about stability, if people have half a chance they&#039;ll scream out for the &quot;instability&quot; of democracy and hope of relief from the stability of repression.  TV and the internet are omnipresent.  News of demonstrations in one place  now moves quickly elsewhere.  The Euros, unfortunately I fear, are probably peeing in their pants, since they worship at the altar of stability.  How much better and less risky it would be if all those who enjoy democracy would actually support the longings of others for some semblence of the same. Instead how many will march in Paris and Berlin in solidarity with Ukraine, Taiwan, Lebanon, etc.?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, despite all the bellowing about stability, if people have half a chance they&#8217;ll scream out for the &#8220;instability&#8221; of democracy and hope of relief from the stability of repression.  TV and the internet are omnipresent.  News of demonstrations in one place  now moves quickly elsewhere.  The Euros, unfortunately I fear, are probably peeing in their pants, since they worship at the altar of stability.  How much better and less risky it would be if all those who enjoy democracy would actually support the longings of others for some semblence of the same. Instead how many will march in Paris and Berlin in solidarity with Ukraine, Taiwan, Lebanon, etc.?</p>
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		<title>By: David Thomson</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43497</link>
		<dc:creator>David Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2005 00:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43497</guid>
		<description>ìIf Taiwan moves too close to independence, the Chinese &quot;leadership&quot; will have a big problem. Their reign over the mainland would be at risk, with pro-Democracy forces and pro-fascism forces both attacking them. Furthermore, they would potentially lose huge amounts of face - being the first leader in millenia to permanently lose a part of China (never mind reality here... stick with me) is not a good position to be in.î



I also share your concerns.  Red Chinaís leaders must save face.  They seem to be more than willing to allow the Taiwanese to be free in de facto sense. Itís the de jure aspect that causes all the friction.  I hope the citizens of Taiwan donít push the envelope too far.



One of the major reasons why war is unlikely between China and the United States is our economic interdependence.  We desire their competitively priced items---and the Chinese have an estimated 100 million people earning their living producing exports sent to the USA.  Nonetheless, I want everybody to take a chill pill.  I am well reminded of Norman Angellís naÔve ìThe Great Illusion,î published in 1913.  He advanced many economic reasons why the major powers would never go to war against each other.  We all, of course, are well aware of what happened a year later.  Take a look at the following link:



http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1914m/illusion.html


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ìIf Taiwan moves too close to independence, the Chinese &#8220;leadership&#8221; will have a big problem. Their reign over the mainland would be at risk, with pro-Democracy forces and pro-fascism forces both attacking them. Furthermore, they would potentially lose huge amounts of face &#8211; being the first leader in millenia to permanently lose a part of China (never mind reality here&#8230; stick with me) is not a good position to be in.î</p>
<p>I also share your concerns.  Red Chinaís leaders must save face.  They seem to be more than willing to allow the Taiwanese to be free in de facto sense. Itís the de jure aspect that causes all the friction.  I hope the citizens of Taiwan donít push the envelope too far.</p>
<p>One of the major reasons why war is unlikely between China and the United States is our economic interdependence.  We desire their competitively priced items&#8212;and the Chinese have an estimated 100 million people earning their living producing exports sent to the USA.  Nonetheless, I want everybody to take a chill pill.  I am well reminded of Norman Angellís naÔve ìThe Great Illusion,î published in 1913.  He advanced many economic reasons why the major powers would never go to war against each other.  We all, of course, are well aware of what happened a year later.  Take a look at the following link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1914m/illusion.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1914m/illusion.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Moore ( Useful Fools )</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43496</link>
		<dc:creator>John Moore ( Useful Fools )</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 23:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43496</guid>
		<description>Buddy,



I am certainly no expert, but I have read some Chinese history and they tend to be relatively irrational about issues of empire - the Yalu river and the 1978 invasion of Vietnam both show that China will not tolerate threats on its border (although it got whipped by Vietnam, so it is stuck with them). More recent Chinese actions towards North Korea show this same theme - they will not accept a unified Korea unless it is communist; not because they themselves are particularly communist, but because they want a malleable autocracy on their border for their own internal reasons.



The economic interties are indeed an important stablizing force, &lt;b&gt;we hope!&lt;/b&gt; But the fascistic leadership has justified its existence partly on hostility towards Taiwan and a promise to re-unite it. This has served to divert attention from its own  kleptocracy (and incompetent rule - wait until the Chinese banks are forced to become solvent!). But it has the proverbial tiger by the tail - creating a movement to take/hold Taiwan that threatens the leadership if they cannot satisfy it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buddy,</p>
<p>I am certainly no expert, but I have read some Chinese history and they tend to be relatively irrational about issues of empire &#8211; the Yalu river and the 1978 invasion of Vietnam both show that China will not tolerate threats on its border (although it got whipped by Vietnam, so it is stuck with them). More recent Chinese actions towards North Korea show this same theme &#8211; they will not accept a unified Korea unless it is communist; not because they themselves are particularly communist, but because they want a malleable autocracy on their border for their own internal reasons.</p>
<p>The economic interties are indeed an important stablizing force, <b>we hope!</b> But the fascistic leadership has justified its existence partly on hostility towards Taiwan and a promise to re-unite it. This has served to divert attention from its own  kleptocracy (and incompetent rule &#8211; wait until the Chinese banks are forced to become solvent!). But it has the proverbial tiger by the tail &#8211; creating a movement to take/hold Taiwan that threatens the leadership if they cannot satisfy it.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43495</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2005 22:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/03/26/bravo-taiwan/#comment-43495</guid>
		<description>John, a vital fact: the exports to USA directly &amp; indirectly employ a gigantic percentage of the PRC workforce, and an enormous amount of their surplus is USA debt. Two problems that weigh against the xenophobia. In addition, they now need their sea approaches for oil if nothing else. The WWI Brits and Germans were so loathe to fight their capital ships because they&#039;re just that, enormous repositories of wealth. At today&#039;s tech level, PRC must understand that devoting enormous resources to float a blue water navy just concentrates our ability to efficiently beggar them. But, you&#039;re right, anyone who has ever heard of the Yalu River will want to be extremely careful.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, a vital fact: the exports to USA directly &amp; indirectly employ a gigantic percentage of the PRC workforce, and an enormous amount of their surplus is USA debt. Two problems that weigh against the xenophobia. In addition, they now need their sea approaches for oil if nothing else. The WWI Brits and Germans were so loathe to fight their capital ships because they&#8217;re just that, enormous repositories of wealth. At today&#8217;s tech level, PRC must understand that devoting enormous resources to float a blue water navy just concentrates our ability to efficiently beggar them. But, you&#8217;re right, anyone who has ever heard of the Yalu River will want to be extremely careful.</p>
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