112 Comments

1. FriarsTale:

My dearest Roger,

You walked out, and I can surely understand why.

But are you certain the flake Arianna wasn’t put in her place afterward? Was she cheered or booed?

Could you have lead a boo?

But I do understand.

Thanks for listening, for your wonderful site, and for being there.

Joe

Apr 23, 2005 - 5:06 pm 2. AJ Kaufman:

Mr. Simon,

I attended your panel and enjoyed it thoroughly. I am a “9/11 Conservative” as well, and I respect you very much and enjoy your writing.

I left Dodd Hall and raced over to Royce to get in the stand-by line where a woman asked me who was speaking. My friend and I (two Jewish, Conservative, Public School Teachers in South Los Angeles) said, “Hugh Hewitt.” She responded arrogantly, “I don’t know him.” A guy in front of us said, “Huffington.” She said, “Oh, great!”

I was in the balcony of Royce Hall too, trying to clap for Hugh amidst the hissing and booing. My friend and I saw you leave. After you left,things deteriorated further.

An audience member asked, “Where is Eric Alderman of The Nation? This neo-Conservative, Pro Israel country won’t allow him to be here!” Many cheered that, and precious few booed. I presume many secular Jews were in the audience, too. A man near where you were sitting gave the Nazi sign and yelled some junk about Zionism. Truly sad.

Hugh made some more brilliant points about the LA Times’ Liberal bias, but no one listened and many couldn’t hear due to the interruptions. Alas, Hugh had to go moderate as he knew no one was going to listen to him here in Los Angeles. People only want to hear and read what they agree with he noted.

As I walked back to the car, through the poetry readings, and Whole Foods Markets, I picked up the Daily Bruin, some Muslim Student Newspaper, deeming America to be “on a Muslim witch hunt.” Quite a city and quite country, Aaron and I agreed.

Of course, I will be back tomorrow. Hope to see you there.

Ari J. Kaufman

http://ajkauf.blog-city.com

Apr 23, 2005 - 5:15 pm 3. richard mcenroe:

Glad your panel went well. Sorry I couldn’t be there.

But what possessed you to run towards the sound of Arianna Huffington?

Apr 23, 2005 - 5:51 pm 4. AJ Kaufman:

Yeah, Arianna was hard to follow and understand, but she was not as bad as Stone, nor the aggregate of the audience. When we clapped for Hugh, the lady next to us stared incredulously, then moved.

Roger, my buddy and I were two of the three claps in Dodd Hall when you said you favored the War on Terror.

Ari Kaufman

Apr 23, 2005 - 5:57 pm 5. Barry Dauphin:

Poor Arianna. Drinking from the Moveon.org well appears to have affected her memory or she just hates Bush without listening to him (maybe even more likely). Well, dear Arianna, if you temporarily grow a brain and read this blog, follow this link and eat crow: http://instapundit.com/archives/022447.php

Apr 23, 2005 - 6:10 pm 6. Terrye:

If these people did not know democracy was one of the reasons this war was fought they were not paying attention.

I remember Bush talking about it several times. Such as his address to the UN and his 2003 state of the Union address. But then I actually listened to what the man said.

Besides if they don’t like it they can always go to Iraq and join the resistance. Maybe they can blow up some civilians in a market place or drag some election workers out of a car and shoot them or execute some fishermen. It seems that the right to have every vote counted is just something for Americans, the people of Iraq are entitled to no such rights.

Apr 23, 2005 - 6:18 pm 7. Kyda Sylvester:

“two Jewish, Conservative, Public School Teachers in South Los Angeles”

Good grief–that must be the world’s smallest demographic.

“Of course, I will be back tomorrow. Hope to see you there.”

You are indeed made of stern stuff, sir.

Who the hell is Arianna Huffington anyway? Oh, I know she ran her husband for the Senate (question: Do you have to be gay to marry Arianna Huffington? answer: No, but it helps.), but where did she come from? When Arianna speaks, why does anyone listen? Why is she such a much?

Is the LAT Book Festival always this lively?

Apr 23, 2005 - 6:27 pm 8. Fresh Air:

Just in case Arriana was too busy preparing to run for the Senate back then, Bill Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act in October 1998.

Excerpt: “It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.”

The Congress urged the President “to call upon the United Nations to establish an international criminal tribunal for the purpose of indicting, prosecuting, and imprisoning Saddam Hussein and other Iraqi officials who are responsible for crimes against humanity, genocide, and other criminal violations of international law.”

People on the Left sure do have short memories.

Apr 23, 2005 - 6:33 pm 9. Marcos Villatoro:

Just to say that it was an honor to be on the same panel with Mr. Simon. I soaked up everything he said, especially regarding his craft as a writer. I look forward now to plunging into all his work. And by the way, this is the first time I ever blogged (is that the right word)? Puchica! All the best to you, Mr. Simon. Siempre, Marcos

Apr 23, 2005 - 6:37 pm 10. Rick Ballard:

Marcos,

Careful, it’s addictive. Ask Buddy.

Btw – Your link was a little off. This link goes to your very well done publicity site.

Apr 23, 2005 - 6:48 pm 11. goldsmith:

Listening to Huffington bray is like listening to a less intelligent Zsa Zsa Gabor guest speaking at a college Green party meeting. Why anyone takes her seriously would be a mystery but for the fact that people far worse than her are taken seriously as well. My first and last encounter with Ms Huffington’s work was when I plodded through her execrable “Picasso: Creator and Destroyer” in the early 1990s. It is, to put it mildly, a masterpiece of half-baked psycho-babble and flat-footed prose, written by someone who couldn’t come to terms with the sketchiest of Senor Picasso’s minotaurs if it crawled off the page and bit her in the butt. Picasso was, to be sure, a dreadful individual, but not for the reasons Ms (Stassinopoulos) Huffington rattles on about (her silly “Christ complex” accusations are hardly as troubling as his avid membership in the French Communist Party, for example).

As for the descriptions of the audience at this event, it simply makes me grateful that I, like Roger, woke up several years ago and sad (and somewhat frightened) that there are so many who are still sleepwalking. Of course, maybe it was we “9/11 conservatives” who were really awake all along.

Good luck with the rest of the fair.

Apr 23, 2005 - 7:09 pm 12. erp:

Sounds like everyone had a very entertaining day. I’d love to meet the two Jewish, Conservative, Public School Teachers in South Los Angeles who are alive to tell the tale. Simply stunning.

Have fun tomorrow everybody.

Apr 23, 2005 - 7:56 pm 13. AJ Kaufman:

Speaking for myself and my buddy (the two Jewish, Conservative, South LA teachers), it’s kind of a masochistic process. We also both went to UC schools (thankfully graduating just prior to 9/11), and I am spending the summer at the University of Vermont. Makes LA look Conservative, I hear.

The good thing is that we are getting out of teaching, in LA at least. (I’m moving to DC to get into Journalism and Politics, perhaps.)

The Unions wreck things for good, passionate teachers. I oftentimes hear, “you can’t be a Republican teacher.” One lady was furious that I had a ‘teachers for Bush and Cheney’ pin on in November. Stories of this genre abound.

Arnold’s Merit Pay will never go through. We are working on a Pro Merit Pay article for the LA Times (of all places). We’ll see if it “fits their slant.”

Check out my blog (ajkauf.blog-city.com) for more on politics, teaching and other musings.

Otherwise, we’ll be back for more at UCLA tomorrow. At least it makes for good writing.

AJ Kaufman

Apr 23, 2005 - 8:24 pm 14. charlotte:

Aryanna Huffandpuffington must be drinking from leaded crystal or something.

But Geoffrey Stone was perfectly right for the wrong reasons about how the media “enabled the war”. How could Saddam and Jacques not be convinced that Bush wouldn’t have support for a military intervention and that Iraq needn’t fully comply with UN resolutions or US demands to avoid it? Headlines and images, editorializing and video streaming of protests and opposition went ’round the world daily. It “helped”, too, that damning stories about the Butcher were muted and allegations of Zionist cabals and Republican/corporate war profiteering ramped up. Saddam must have thought his investment in pols, crats and journos was paying handsome returns.

What would Bush have done had Saddam rolled over and played just dead enough to undercut our reason for intervention, and then come back to life more hideous that ever? We should thank the agenda-driven media for undercutting both its anti-war/ anti-Bush mission and also its credibility so utterly well. (And we should thank mystery, screen and blog writers for setting the record straight.)

Apr 23, 2005 - 9:46 pm 15. Ed Poinsett:

What would Bush have done had Saddam rolled over and played just dead enough to undercut our reason for intervention, and then come back to life more hideous that ever?

Charlotte, that is exactly the question I’ve been asking myself for over two years now. It would have been simple for Saddam to chase Bush out of Kuwait with a plan like that. There was no way Bush could keep that many troops on the border for much longer. Saddam could have pulled the rug out from under him by just opening up the inspection process a little more. There would have been no invasion at that time and probably not ever under a Bush administration.

I don’t understand why Zarqawi doesn’t do the same thing. Call off his Jihad for a few months until the US starts bringing troops home in quantity. Then after his Hudna, really lay into the new Iraqi government. He could probably bring it down easier under those circumstances. Bush’s hands would be tied, no way he could go back barring a nuke in NYC.

Apr 23, 2005 - 10:48 pm 16. WichitaBoy:

Roger,

I’m beginning to want to make my way to the LA Book Festival one of these years.

Reading the tale of your travails with Arianna et cie., it occurred to me once again that your political stance must cause you immense difficulties in your chosen milieu. It must take a tremendous amount of bravery to maintain. I just want to say Thank You for your persistence in the pursuit of truth as you see it. You’re doing a helluva job helping to lead the rest of us out of the swamp. I hope you realize how valuable your efforts are, across the whole country.

Apr 23, 2005 - 10:50 pm 17. FutureTense:

You don’t want to go there, WitchitaBoy. It’s even worse than Roger’s description. I’ve been going to the Festival for years, but after last year’s weekend-long Bush bash, I vowed not to return. If you glance at the list of attending authors, you’ll count more than a dozen writers affiliated with the Nation or other far-left publications. along with at least another dozen or so leftist academics, etc. The only conservatives I could find on their entire roster were Hugh Hewitt, Max Boot — and Roger L. Simon. And Roger sat on a mystery writers’ panel, not a very political subject. (Interesting that the subject of the war on terror came up in a mystery conclave, though, isn’t it?) How many years will have to pass before the L.A. Times Book Fest finally seats you on a political panel, Roger?

But I suppose it’s for the best. As others have noted above, the manners of the left leave something to be desired. They won’t even give the other side a respectful hearing, instead they’d rather cover their ears and drown it out with boos and hisses. What a sad state that the once-great liberal cause has descended to.

Apr 23, 2005 - 11:24 pm 18. AJ Kaufman:

Yeah, The Nation and ACLU booths were overflowing with angry, unkempt folk.

Imagine teaching public school in LA as a Conservative. Then, when I tell them I despise the Union, well, my friends at work are scarce, but I seek them out quickly.

UCLA was a scary place today. Any gathering – such as today in Royce Hall – where 2,500 people deny there is a Liberal Bias in the LA Times? Well, wow.

A fellow teacher already told me today that my opinions are unfounded, based on anger, and a bunch of “lazy rants.” Ever hear of the expression, “pot calling the kettle black?” He also told me that after teaching only two years, I have “no right” to attack other teachers. VERY tolerant, indeed. A UC Santa Cruz graduate, he is. Okay.

Apr 23, 2005 - 11:42 pm 19. reel cobra:

I’m a 9/11 conservative and work in Hollywood. I bang into the “we brought this upon ourselves” ostrich-head-in-the-sand mindset every day.

As for the incivility of the left at public functions, the only surprising thing about the reaction to Hugh Hewitt was that he wasn’t hit with a pie.

“Any means necessary” is the liberal new code of operation now, and it’s our bad if we are continually surprised by that fact.

The tactic is to take an issue, pound it loudly and rudely, and then abandon it if you are proven wrong.

For example, consider the left’s LACK of response to the government’s now sucessful prosecution of Z Moussaoui. Remember the endless essays on Ashcroft and the Bush assault on freedom and free speech?

Where are these critics now?

http://reelcobra.blogspot.com/

Apr 24, 2005 - 7:07 am 20. Charlie (Colorado):

I don’t understand why Zarqawi doesn’t do the same thing. Call off his Jihad for a few months until the US starts bringing troops home in quantity. Then after his Hudna, really lay into the new Iraqi government.

I think the biggest reason is that after a few months of real quiet, Zarkawi and the six loyal guys he had left would have trouble finding anyone to do the work. As it is, they can’t sustain the effort — they’re having to turn to attacks against civilians, not even the civilian government but people at Friday services, and they’re having to pay $1500 a month to their foot soldiers as it is. The more civil order gets estabished, the more likely Ahmed, Muhammed, and Ali will be to be too busy selling groceries and building houses to spend much time blowing things up.

Apr 24, 2005 - 7:18 am 21. Steve J.:

“No one had been saying this war was about democracy before it was fought”

ìBut make no mistake ñ as I said earlier ñ we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about.î -Ari Fleischer Press Briefing 4/10/03

Apr 24, 2005 - 7:51 am 22. charlotte:

Did Ari say “exclusively”? That citation of yours is getting boring. You couldn’t possible believe that one line at a press conference trumps Bush’s pre-war speeches in which he clearly said the war was to be about stopping Saddam’s barbarity and sowing democracy in Iraq and the region, in addition to WMD.

Arianna’s excuse might be that she couldn’t hear Bush talking when so many voices fill her head. Just a guess, though.

Apr 24, 2005 - 8:07 am 23. Silicon valley Jim:

Royce Hall must be quite large if it could accommodate Arianna’s ego and an audience in addition.

Apr 24, 2005 - 8:20 am 24. Rick Ballard:

Charlotte,

The Soroturfer’s memebook/hymnal is very short. Given the limitations of the authors/intended audience I’m surprised that most of it has not been put to simple rhyme or simpler melody. Something to skip rope to or sing while playing hopscotch would probably work best.

Apr 24, 2005 - 8:31 am 25. chuck:

You couldn’t possible believe that one line at a press conference trumps Bush’s pre-war speeches..

Charlotte, you are far too kind But you knew that.

Apr 24, 2005 - 8:41 am 26. Steve J.:

CHARLOTTE:

Paul Wolfowitzís interview w/ Vanity Fair: Link

îThe truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason. There have always been three fundamental concerns. One is weapons of mass destruction, the second is support for terrorism, the third is the criminal treatment of the Iraqi people. Actually I guess you could say thereís a fourth overriding one which is the connection between the first two. The third one by itself, as I think I said earlier, is a reason to help the Iraqis but itís not a reason to put American kidsí lives at risk, certainly not on the scale we did it. That second issue about links to terrorism is the one about which thereís the most disagreement within the bureaucracy.î

Apr 24, 2005 - 8:46 am 27. Roger:

Reified “liberals” love that one quote from Wolfowitz, Steve J., as opposed to hundreds of others and many full-length essays, because it makes them feel better about themselves. Wolfie couldn’t possibly have been interested in democracy promotion, now could he? He must just have been drunk or lying from approximately 1985 to the present. (Wolfowitz, btw, is a social liberal with an Arab girlfriend. Bring us arguments on a more sophisticated level, please. We’re grown-ups here and know that democracy promotion was always part of the plan, like it or not.)

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:08 am 28. Cecil Turner:

Good job Steve. You’ve effectively debunked Huffington’s: “No one had been saying this war was about democracy before it was fought” statement. And, of course, Wolfowitz is and was correct about which reasons were primary.

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:10 am 29. marky48:

Aw Roger, you’re not that thin-skinned are you? I was down front and it was interesting that Hewitt was booed because of his, shall I say labeling the host of the festival. Ken Auletta denied the label wingnuts apply to everything that doesn’t move in perfect lockstep with their predispositions. I agree with him.

When it becomes the bloggers book festival and the paper is out of business then Hewitt can gloat. It ain’t happening in our lifetimes, nor should it. I interviewed for a flunky reporter gig at a sister paper here in LA. It required two stories a day. That’s a lot of original reporting. No blogger chases down 6-8 sources every day. All they are is opinion sites commenting on real reporters’ work. Yeah that’s a tough peanut gallery. The real work is something else.

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:22 am 30. marky48:

There was only one urgent, supposedly, reason as she said. Sure it’s easy to say afterward that we they had others, but which one was touted over and again? If anything the biggest failure was to fall for it, which the press and most of the people did. The rest is ad hoc plan B,C…Pitiful not to be able to admit that much.

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:27 am 31. gk:

Maybe we are expecting too much from some humans to climb down from an increasingly embarrassing personal revelation that Bush et. all might have been right all along? I recently ran into college age friends who I attended Kansas University in the mid 80’s with and I kidded them about how much virulent hatred they had for Reagan (coincedently they hate Bush as much if not more)Their reaction ranged from casual denial (who me???) to stubborn “Reagan had nothing to do with the end of the cold war”. Cripes this is 20 years ago and we have the proof stretching from Poland to the Ukraine for all to see. Maybe it will take another 20 years to get some people to admit they may, just may have been a little off about Bush and Iraq?

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:29 am 32. SMGalbraith:

Oh brother.

All we heard from the liberal/left opponents of the war – from Huffington to Matthews to Moore – during the runup was that the “neocons” had hijacked American foreign policy and were trying to establish democracy throughout the Middle East. That the idiot Bush was being misled by that neocon Cheney and that neocon Wolfowitz and that neocon Perle into believing that we could create democracy in a region that never experienced it.

Now the line is that creating democracy was never a rationale for the war? It’s a post hoc excuse for the failure to find WMDs?

Geezus.

SMG

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:45 am 33. reel cobra:

“I interviewed for a flunky reporter gig at a sister paper here in LA. It required two stories a day. That’s a lot of original reporting.”

Very funny Marky48. You’re a great proponent of the wacky left.

But I wouldn’t brag about not getting a job.

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:49 am 34. chuck:

The rest is ad hoc plan B,C…

Marky48,

So can I assume that you are now wholeheartedly behind the growth of democracy in the area? Lebanon, the new government in Iraq, you are out there lending your support? Somehow, I suspect not. I have the sense that you are just another bit of detritus being swept away in the flood of history.

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:49 am 35. Roger:

“Thin-skinned” marky48? Well, maybe. But you should see my email box. Actually the reason I left the panel early was a prior committment and, alas, boredom. I don’t have a long attention span. Not one of my better traits, as I’m sure my friends will tell you.

Apr 24, 2005 - 10:27 am 36. dday:

I was at the Hewitt panel, and have to disagree on a few things. There were TONS of boos after the anti-Semitic idiot in the audience screeched on about the Likudniks and the pro-Israel lobby taking us to war in Iraq. That guy was going from panel to panel asking the same question, and when he did in the Maureen Dowd/Eric Alterman panel, Alterman condemned him and suggested he was misinterpreting his work.

Also, you probably missed Hewitt’s attempts to swing the conversation around to blogs, wherein he wasn’t even able to properly pronounce Daily Kos (while attempting to praise it as the top-trafficked blog on the Web). When the author of Blog, the self-professed pre-eminent scholar on blogs in America, can’t even get the name right of the #1-trafficked blog on the Net, the bias expressed therein is extremely telling.

How about his comment that Fox News served the “center-right” community? Ridiculous.

Apr 24, 2005 - 10:45 am 37. Steve J.:

THE LEGAL “JUSTIFICATION” FOR THE IRAQ WAR CRIME:

Text of a Letter from the President to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate

March 18, 2003

Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:)

Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic and other peaceful means alone will neither (A) adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq nor (B) likely lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

Sincerely,

GEORGE W. BUSH

Apr 24, 2005 - 11:00 am 38. AJ Kaufman:

Hugh doesn’t have to pronounce “Daily Kos” correctly. Who has ever heard the word orally, anyway? And what is a “kos?” Give him credit for at least mentioning it as the most read blog in the nation. He also gave Arianna a compliment by saying her blog would be successful. I did not hear one pro-Hugh comment from the other panelists. Typical.

As for the whacko Islamo-phile, yes, there were boos. Not enough, but some. The crowd has to be 50% (liberal) Jews.

I am glad to see that Alderman condemned the anti-semitic jerk. There was a guy near us who cheered the comment, sadly.

FNC is Center-Right, just as much as CNN and NPR claim to Center-Left.

Apr 24, 2005 - 11:13 am 39. dday:

Kos is short for Markos (his name), and normally I would give someone the benefit of the doubt on that, but not the guy who writes an entire book about blogs and claims to be the leading source about the blogosphere in the whole country. I think someone who wants to be in that position does have to pronounce Daily Kos correctly.

I think Auletta was very evenhanded, actually, beating Hewitt to the punch by mentioning that Bush won the election where a lot of the purportedly “hidden” issues about Iraq et al. were discussed.

Nobody around me cheered the anti-Semitic idiot.

Apr 24, 2005 - 11:28 am 40. Cecil Turner:

“Text of a Letter from the President to the Speaker of the House . . . “

Steve, that’s the text of a boilerplate notification of determinations required by law prior to proceeding with military force. Three days later, he made the second boilerplate notification, with much the same verbiage:

“On March 18, 2003, I made available to you, consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force . . .

“I have reluctantly concluded, along with other coalition leaders, that only the use of armed force will accomplish these objectives and restore international peace and security in the area. I have also determined that the use of armed force against Iraq is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001. United States objectives also support a transition to democracy in Iraq, as contemplated by the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338).” [emphasis added]

Not sure what your point is, but this really doesn’t help make the “nobody was talking democracy” case.

Apr 24, 2005 - 11:43 am 41. goldsmith:

So now the ‘left’ is reduced to the role of the thin-lipped spinster grammarian? We can discount everything that Hewitt says because he didn’t pronounce (the non-word) “Kos” ‘correctly’. Well, what is the correct pronounciation of “Kos”?; I would like a cite from the OED if possible.

Honestly, if you’re reduced to nit-picking pronounciation, you know your arguments are really in trouble. But that’s fairly apparent. How many untold hours and pages have our heroic grammarians of the ‘left’ devoted to sniggering about President Bush’s gaffes?

Anyway, I’ll hang around awhile. Maybe SteveJ will thrill us with another quote from “Meet the Press” or a nugget from a daily briefing. So you opposed the war. Now what? Shall we reinstate Hussein, and perhaps have Bush crawl on his knees, as a pilgrim to Canterbury, to the UN building and prostrate himself before that bastion of moral leadership, Kofi Annan?

We have all heard, again and again and again, that you and your fellow travelers opposed the war, and that Bush and his scheming advisors lied us into the war, and that the ‘world says no to the Bush agenda’. Great. Thank you for your opinions. Now that Iraq is starting to function again (to say ‘function normally’ is a difficult judgment, since it has not functioned ‘normally’ for decades and decades), now that a clear majority of the Iraqi people risked their lives to vote, what now? Where do you stand? We all know what you are against (both what you say you are against and what you are really against). But what, at long last, are you for?

Apr 24, 2005 - 1:15 pm 42. charlotte:

Cecil and Goldsmith, Yes and thank you!

Rick, you speak of hymals and child’s games- church and young kids must factor into your rich life, yes? Hope you don’t mind that I saved your, Buddy’s and Truepeer’s moving comments on the Pope thread at Wretchard’s (lapsed but optimistic Presby here).

Chuck, will there be any reconciliation of parallel political/mental universes? Send hope, please

STEVE J., I’ve been installing a mint garden today and not able to respond sooner to your points, but in the break between planting the fruity and candy mints, a quick note:

To the extent the war was about WMD, we got to look around Iraq for ourselves when Saddam refused to fully cooperate with inspections. When we told him, “You can do this the easy way, or you can do this the hard way”, Saddam chose the stupid way. All complaints about our going to war lie squarely with him and his allies like Chirac and protestors who gave him the will to resist our responsible post-9/11 demands. How can war opponents now say they knew he had no WMD and that the war was fought for naught? Many of you were saying that he would use them were we to invade and none of you know whether he shipped them out across the border during the protracted build-up to hostilities. The fact is, nobody really knew, everything was a guess, and to this day we’re still not sure what the proven liar, cheat, sadist, terror sponsor, US sworn enemy and megalomaniac was up to.

As a result of the war, we’re that much safer with Saddam in custody, the Iraqi people have been freed from a tyrant and put in charge of their own future, and other Middle Easterners want some of that democracy thing you’re whining about. All of this has come at great cost, of course, but the costs of not dealing with Saddam and the region would have been proved more catastrophic. That was the calculus, at any rate. If you and other anti’s believe all would have been well without major interventions and their infusion of political hope and American security, you must have been prepared to doze off and then die. Waking up, apparently, is too painful for some of you

Apr 24, 2005 - 2:01 pm 43. gk:

I admire some of you here that still have the energy to respond to the DU/KOS/Michael Moore sophistry trolls. It has grown too wearying for me to recite Iraq facts, dates, history before G.W Bush took office. Why we are still debating whether the sun will come up tomorrow is beyond me. SteveJ will always selectively quote Bush speeches and pick just the phrases he wants to hear. Why bother? He has long since made up his mind while the world has passed him by.

Apr 24, 2005 - 2:07 pm 44. charlotte:

Please, someone, anyone:

How do we pronouce ‘Kos’?

Apr 24, 2005 - 2:18 pm 45. goldsmith:

charlotte,

I usually pronounce it as “Coose”, but that’s just to be derisive.

According to the Merriam-Webster Online (the OED is a subscription site, alas) “Kos” does have a definition and a pronunciation:

Kos /’k‰s, ‘kos/

1 island Greece in the Dodecanese area 111 square miles (289 square kilometers)

2 chief town on the island

So, accepting this as a representative of normative English pronunciation (even though it’s a Greek word), it rhymes with “floss”.

But, of course, since it’s apparently a shortened form of “Markos”, then it would rhyme with “goes”, which is not nearly as nice as the hard “K” sound in the other pronunciation, although the soft, weak, indistinctness of the “Coes” form might be more appropriate to the subject.

Maybe we could just bypass this silliness and call it “Daily Wingnut” or something. (I’ve never understood why the puerile left seem to have adopted that as a slur against conservatives, assuming that it’s short for “right wing nut”, since it could just as easily be short for “left wing nut”. Maybe it should be a multi-use word like “idiotarian” which can apply to the stupid of any political persuasion).

Apr 24, 2005 - 3:00 pm 46. charlotte:

Thank you, goldsmith- a font! I had always pronounced it as “cuss”, don’t know why…

Now, please tell how wing-nuts can be directional. All of the ones in my garage turn the same way–? (signed, clueless female)

Apr 24, 2005 - 3:06 pm 47. Steve J.:

CHARLOTTE:”How can war opponents now say they knew he had no WMD “

I personally didn’t know but Bush knew:

ìYes, I, too, believed there were weapons. I began to be skeptical when we went to sites that were given to us by U.S. intelligence and we found nothing. They said this is the best intelligence we have, and I said, if this is the best, what is the rest?î HANS BLIX, NYT, 3/30/04

Apr 24, 2005 - 3:24 pm 48. Steve J.:

ROGER:”Reified “liberals” love that one quote from Wolfowitz, Steve J., as opposed to hundreds of others “

But wait, there’s more

“In my time at Centcom, I watched the intelligence, and never — not once — did it say, ‘He has WMD.’ ì GEN. ZINNI, Wash. Post, 12/23/03

VICE PRES. CHENEY: There is–in the past, there have been some activities related to terrorism by Saddam Hussein. But at this stage, you know, the focus is over here on al-Qaida and the most recent events in New York. Saddam Hussein’s bottled up, at this point, but clearly, we continue to have a fairly tough policy where the Iraqis are concerned. http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/news-speeches/speeches/vp20010916.html

POWELL, 2/24/2001: ìHe has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighborsî http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2001/933.htm

ìHe [Saddam] does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt.î Rice, 7/29/01

ìThe Iraqi regime militarily remains fairly weak. It doesn’t have the capacity it had 10 or 12 years ago. It has been contained.î Powell, 5/15/01

Apr 24, 2005 - 3:28 pm 49. Steve J.:

CECIL:”Not sure what your point is”

My point is this: Bush lied and is a war criminal.

Apr 24, 2005 - 3:30 pm 50. Rick Ballard:

Charlotte,

I think the proper pronunciation is as follows:

K as in Knock

O as in look or book

S as in close – close the door

The closest phonetic is OOZ.

Yes, I taught SS to first graders for years. Except for the lesson on “Suffering fools gladly.” They always had a substitute for that one for some reason.

Steve J. – We really do understand that democracy in the ME was “Not Achieved In Your Name” nor would we impute the success to any other dimwitted leftist who shares your curious disbeliefs.

Apr 24, 2005 - 3:40 pm 51. gk:

Hey Steve-o, take a gander at these other “liar,war criminals”. Gee, I guess the only thing different is the party of the president in charge.

“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”

- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”

- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”

- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source

“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”

- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”

- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

Apr 24, 2005 - 3:45 pm 52. Cecil Turner:

“My point is this: Bush lied and is a war criminal.”

Which you’d prove by quoting verbiage from a required report drafted by Congressmen?

The problem is strategic incompetents who think “WMD” means a large shiny missile with sharp fins carrying a nuclear warhead. In fact, everyone knew at the outset Iraq had no nukes–and their missiles couldn’t reach France, let alone the U.S.–and were never a threat. The same goes for their apparently destroyed “stockpiles” of chemical rockets and artillery shells. They might affect the stability of the mideast, but they had no impact on US security. And the intelligence failures concerning them (which largely consisted of tallying previously admitted totals against known stockpiles destroyed) had no material effect other than a propaganda black eye.

Iraq’s forte has always been their relatively advanced Bio program, which we now know included secret labs that remained active until just before the invasion. And, just as Wolfowitz said, what we were worried about was them providing aid (in the form of advanced biological agents) to terror organizations. We still don’t have a good handle on the state of that program, or whether there are any materials adrift. But the fact that most people now believe the very real threat wasn’t there is by far the worst PR failure of the war.

Apr 24, 2005 - 3:47 pm 53. Rick Ballard:

Anyone wishing to indulge in idle amusement should grab a calendar showing moon phases and check the archives for the three day period surrounding the full moon. If we had the longitude of their location and a Solunar table we could predict the hours in which moonbats are most apt to appear with a decent degree of certitude. No smarter than trout or a largemouth. Toss out a ‘Bush’ spoon or a ‘WMD’ plastic worm and fill your creel in an hour maximum. ‘Course they’re only good for cat food or to bury under rose bushes.

Apr 24, 2005 - 3:57 pm 54. AJ Kaufman:

Steve, that “war criminal” line is so juvenile. Why don’t you just say that George is worse than Saddam and Osama? Many others have. Those liberal soundbytes are so overplayed.

Better question for the “War is NOT the answer” crowd is, “well, then what IS the answer?”

John Kerry had none, and no one else has.

Nice try, Steve. Your blog is quite amusing, though. Boy, those Hannity pictures are probably really keeping him up at night.

Apr 24, 2005 - 3:58 pm 55. goldsmith:

SteveJ, yes, yes, liar, lying liar, war criminal. We hear you. We’ve heard you. But I’ll repeat the end of my previous post:

We have all heard, again and again and again, that you and your fellow travelers opposed the war, and that Bush and his scheming advisors lied us into the war, and that the ‘world says no to the Bush agenda’ (and Bush is a WAR CRIMINAL). Great. Thank you for your opinions. Now that Iraq is starting to function again (to say ‘function normally’ is a difficult judgment, since it has not functioned ‘normally’ for decades and decades), now that a clear majority of the Iraqi people risked their lives to vote, what now? Where do you stand? We all know what you are against (both what you say you are against and what you are really against). But what, at long last, are you for?

What then, SteveJ?

Side note: Roger, your site sure has a short memory! I check the “Remember me: yes” box each time I post, yet I constantly have to sign in again.

Apr 24, 2005 - 4:09 pm 56. charlotte:

Rick,

I noticed the full(ish?) moon last night and had similar thoughts. But your fishing and arranging the lunatic fish parts ’round roses or in the cat bowl is inspired naturalism/environmentalism, though I sometimes wonder why it is that human vegans have no problem feeding canned meat to their pets

AJ Kaufman,

The answer is candlelight vigils and praying for peace at all costs. Unfortunately, there are times the costs of no war can be bloody and soul-extinguishing. Otherwise, a great idea.

Apr 24, 2005 - 4:15 pm 57. charlotte:

goldsmith,

I’m so sorry, you’re a fount and not a font. I can’t type and post at the same time. Since I clarified that, won’t you send along a hardware lesson on wingnuts? In my limited experience, the ones that work turn RIGHT and the loose ones are always turned left.

Still clueless

Apr 24, 2005 - 4:27 pm 58. PeterUK:

“Reified “liberals” love that one quote from Wolfowitz, Steve J., as opposed to hundreds of others and many full-length essays, because it makes them feel better about themselves.”

Roger, are liberals allowed to feel better about themselves? I thought that self denigration was part of the the psychopathy.

Will somebody please fly over Steve J’s island and tell him the war is over? It must be dispiriting boiling up his trainers for soup every day.

Apr 24, 2005 - 6:22 pm 59. Buddy Larsen:

Hey, Charlotte, you must live nearby, the moon is fullish here, too. I was just outside greasing the wood chipper. I’ve read Steve J’s remarks, and I’m convinced he’s right, so, just to be fair to my fellow human beings, first thing in the morning I’m gonna fire up the engine and hop in!

Steve Buscemi, here I come!

Apr 24, 2005 - 8:50 pm 60. marky48:

My views on the matter match Auletta’s fine commentary. The whack job questioners ruined the thing and they had to cut it off. As for my political views I have a high bar of evidenciary logic to follow. This bunch in charge have none.

Apr 24, 2005 - 8:54 pm 61. Buddy Larsen:

Marky48, those launch problems with your journalism career may be grammatical: “This bunch..’has’ (not ‘have’) none.”

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:18 pm 62. Steve J.:

CECIL:”But the fact that most people now believe the very real threat wasn’t there is by far the worst PR failure of the war.”

Not a PR problem, it’s the truth:

Excerpts from the Duelfer Report:

Saddam wanted to recreate Iraqís WMD capabilityówhich was essentially destroyed in 1991óafter sanctions were removed and Iraqís economy stabilized, but probably with a different mix of capabilities to that which previously existed.

In practical terms, with the destruction of the Al Hakam facility, Iraq abandoned its ambition to obtain advanced BW weapons quickly. ISG found no direct evidence that Iraq, after 1996, had plans for a new BW program or was conducting BW-specific work for military purposes. Indeed, from the mid-1990s, despite evidence of continuing interest in nuclear and chemical weapons, there appears to be a complete absence of discussion or even interest in BW at the Presidential level.

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:25 pm 63. Steve J.:

GOLDSMITH:”But what, at long last, are you for?”

The truth.

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:28 pm 64. Buddy Larsen:

And don’t forget, Bush rushed to war with no plan to win the peace! And “Halliburton!”

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:29 pm 65. Buddy Larsen:

If I didn’t have to put myself thru the wood chipper, I’d go stand on top of the mass graves and make windy speeches about Truth.

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:38 pm 66. SJ:

Steve J., my head is spinning. You say Bush is a liar and a war criminal and that he knew there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq but he used them as an excuse to go to war. So why exactly do you think he was so determined to go to war? What was in it for him, according to you?

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:41 pm 67. SJ:

If you can’t come up with anything besides that lame old oil bs, then don’t even bother to respond.

Apr 24, 2005 - 9:43 pm 68. goldsmith:

SteveJ:

You, obviously, can’t handle the truth.

Apr 24, 2005 - 11:45 pm 69. PeterUK:

Goldsmith,

It is on a level with a child when it finds out there is no Santa Claus,no Easter Bunny,no Tooth Fairy and the only Little White Hen was served with roast potatoes and green beans.

Apr 25, 2005 - 2:15 am 70. Cecil Turner:

“ISG found no direct evidence that Iraq, after 1996, had plans for a new BW program or was conducting BW-specific work for military purposes.”

Might want to read the rest of the report (and consider that any covert aid to terror organizations is going to be through intel channels, not the military):

ISG uncovered information that the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) maintained throughout 1991 to 2003 a set of undeclared covert laboratories to research and test various chemicals and poisons, primarily for intelligence operations. [. . .]

ISG judges that in 1991 and 1992, Iraq appears to have destroyed its undeclared stocks of BW weapons and probably destroyed remaining holdings of bulk BW agent. However ISG lacks evidence to document complete destruction. Iraq retained some BW-related seed stocks until their discovery after Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF).

Now ask yourself: “how much bio agent is needed for an effective terror attack”? (Hint: not much.)

Apr 25, 2005 - 6:34 am 71. charlotte:

Buddy,

(Hope I’m in time and that you don’t get up early.)

PLEASE don’t jump into the chipper! It would make us neighbors very sad-ish. Why don’t you just write a tract of atonement for your pro-America, pro-world security and pro-democracy views? Think Twain’s “War Prayer”, only the other way around. At what price “peace” cutting both ways

Apr 25, 2005 - 6:39 am 72. Buddy Larsen:

Charlotte, not to worry, now that I’m leftist-ish, I can just metaphorically jump into wood chippers.

This is much smarter for The Cause cause I can be a martyr again tomorrow (unlike all those family units in Iraq who ended up fish chum in the Tigris and You Fraidies)!

You should become a leftist, too! It’s reaaly cool!

I’ll check on that Mark Twain dude. What does he like “do”?

Apr 25, 2005 - 7:21 am 73. charlotte:

Guess I can dig it, Buddy, as long as we don’t actually have to live our new leftie convictions, like moving to Syria or giving up all cars, petro products, leather, electricity, affluence, and demo-capitalistic freedom. But it would be fun wearing those cute slogan tees, wouldn’t it?

IIRC, Twain measured water depth and scribbled a bit.

Apr 25, 2005 - 8:14 am 74. Rick Ballard:

What a relief, Buddy. I was getting really worried ’cause I wanted to borrow the chipper this weekend.

Apr 25, 2005 - 8:35 am 75. Buddy Larsen:

Charlotte, right, we’ll have to table the Syrian expansion until it’s safer and the people have some income. But we definitely should have an intial production run (I’m thinking “Down with America, Capitalism, and Bush!” in S, M, L, and a few X & XXL for the ex-secret police) ready to hit the market, as soon as the war criminals free the slaves.

Comrade Rick, welcome to the baric…the barra…those things in the road that you can’t drive over! But–pardon my snickers–you have a lot to learn! We don’t have to actually DO anything! We just touch our nose and wish it!

Apr 25, 2005 - 9:37 am 76. Buddy Larsen:

Yuo got to laern to use yuor Umagination!

Apr 25, 2005 - 9:43 am 77. marky48:

“”This bunch..’has’ (not ‘have’) none.”"

I wouldn’t read too much into an internet posting with no editing capacity. It’s a red herring to do so. You see, publications HAVE editors. And so do I on my blog where I repeatedly edit for misfires.

Apr 25, 2005 - 10:05 am 78. charlotte:

Moving right along

Buddy, the shirt sounds awesome. But I’m having a tough time truly converting and kinda want to add an “I’m” in front of that slogan. Think anybody’d notice?

Apr 25, 2005 - 10:18 am 79. PeterUK:

“It’s a red herring to do so”

It’s a red herring so to do!

Don’t they learn you nuthin’ at Scribblers School?

Apr 25, 2005 - 10:19 am 80. Buddy Larsen:

And Marky, remember, Peter IS English.

Apr 25, 2005 - 10:24 am 81. Buddy Larsen:

Brings up a disquieting thought…what if the English ever ask for it back? It would’t bother me in particular, as I speak Esperanto like a native.

Apr 25, 2005 - 10:30 am 82. charlotte:

I hear Esperanya is pretty this time of year.

Apr 25, 2005 - 10:38 am 83. Buddy Larsen:

Oh, but it’s just as pretty, year ’round!

Apr 25, 2005 - 11:31 am 84. illison:

If Simon hadn’t walked out, outraged that someone would dare to have an opinion on Iraq different from his, he might have learned that Geoffrey Stone is not “a historian,” but rather a Professor at the University of Chicago Law School who specializes in the subject of civil liberties during wartime. This must be that vaunted blogosphere self-correction.

Apr 25, 2005 - 4:57 pm 85. AJ Kaufman:

Re Geoff Stone:

Please. This guy might as well change his name to Oliver. I would put him in the class of Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. Check it out:

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/stone-g/ppw.html

This guy is Mr. ACLU to the core. And that is not a good thing in my view. HE is someone teaching our kids, and our aspiring lawyers. No wonder UCLA was overjoyed to invite him.

Can he please get over The Sedition Acts? Move on (but not .org)

Apr 25, 2005 - 5:45 pm 86. marky48:

Oh I know the Alien and Sedition Acts are so yesterday, except they keep returning, in WWI & II over and over again.

Apr 25, 2005 - 8:49 pm 87. marky48:

Who cares if he’s English. So were my ancestors.

Apr 25, 2005 - 8:52 pm 88. PeterUK:

You do not appear to have inherited very much Marky.Failing to get a job as a journalist hardly endows you with the qualifications to make free with one of the world’s great languages,no more than would the inability to jump qualify you for the Olympics.

Apr 26, 2005 - 5:08 am 89. marky48:

Who crowned you king? I inherited enough reasoning skills to work as a scientist and know you’re jerk. Cram it pal.

Apr 26, 2005 - 9:56 am 90. Buddy Larsen:

Peter, you could still qualify for the olympics if you have an editor. But be sure and hire one that jumps well, and also understands pronoun antecedents.

“Bob watched Bill jump while he was at the Olympics.”

Apr 26, 2005 - 9:58 am 91. Buddy Larsen:

Oh, he’s just kidding you, Marky. Don’t get so huffy. I thought it was humorous, getting an English lesson from one of those people with those funny accents.

Apr 26, 2005 - 10:28 am 92. PeterUK:

Marky,How fascinating,which branch of Jerk Science did you qualify in?

If you want to be a journalist and have a blog you must develop a much better style of invective and grow a thicker skin,the latter you have achieved in the cranial department.

Apr 26, 2005 - 10:41 am 93. Buddy Larsen:

Peter, what, “Cram it, pal!” doesn’t strike you as attractive wit?

Apr 26, 2005 - 10:54 am 94. PeterUK:

Buddy,

Whilst I admit the phrase has a certain adolescent spontaneity to it,there is a lack of that subtlety which is evinced by the great writers of the mother tongue.Still,it is probably easy to do with a spray can.

Apr 26, 2005 - 11:04 am 95. Buddy Larsen:

Well, really, King Peter, what more could a simple colonial ask of a political philosophy than that it be contained within spray-can limits?

You British with your suttleties!

Apr 26, 2005 - 11:38 am 96. PeterUK:

Buddy,

No need to stand on ceremony,Sire will do.

Glad you think the ties are subtle,so difficult nowadays finding one that doesn’t clash with the regalia.I’ll send you the address of my tailor

Apr 26, 2005 - 12:01 pm 97. Buddy Larsen:

Yes, my Liege, thank you, my Liege.

Apr 26, 2005 - 12:17 pm 98. PeterUK:

Liege? I’m not Belgian!…and stop grovelling man,I offered you a knighthood….you’ll probably never wear it.

Apr 26, 2005 - 12:42 pm 99. Buddy Larsen:

Heh heh…love to be a Knight of Olde, we’ve gone nowhere but down since the Round Table. But, word-wise, isn’t the higher rank in feudalism always “leige”?

Apr 26, 2005 - 1:59 pm 100. Buddy Larsen:

Maybe I was thinking “suzerain”?

Apr 26, 2005 - 2:09 pm 101. Buddy Larsen:

…always wondered how English survived after 1066…Duke William being such a tyrant, and a French-speaker, to boot.

Apr 26, 2005 - 2:11 pm 102. PeterUK:

All right slip some cash to NuLabor and Sir Buddye de Larsen it is,mind you if your lot had won at Stamford Bridge it would have saved you money.

Apr 26, 2005 - 2:21 pm 103. Buddy Larsen:

Them friggin’ HouseCarls with that 6′-long battleaxe kinda took us aback, you’re right. Question is how your guys fought that one, then marched 250 miles in just over a week straight into the Froggies, and damn near–within a lucky arrow-fall–beat them, too. You Brits are funny that way, just don’t like to lose wars, takes circumstances to do you guys in.

Apr 26, 2005 - 2:38 pm 104. m:

Illison:

Via Geoffrey Stone’s website:

Law professor Geoffrey R. Stone discusses his recent book, which recounts our nation’s long history of limiting free speech and civil liberties in times of crisis.

Historian.

Apr 26, 2005 - 3:47 pm 105. marky48:

Jerk science? Well you may be the expert there I don’t know but just blindly insulting people won’t get you very far. At least insult their ideas like other wingnuts do. I have a journalism and environmental biology degree and work for the US government. Working on my fourth book. Who the hell are you?

Apr 26, 2005 - 5:19 pm 106. PeterUK:

“Jerk science? Well you may be the expert there I don’t know but just blindly insulting people won’t get you very far.”

You are living proof of that!

“At least insult their ideas like other wingnuts do.”

You don’t have an idea outside your own self importance,in this case the messenger is the message.

“I have a journalism and environmental biology degree and work for the US government.”

A Journalism and environmental biology degree? Flunked Sociology Eh? US government,a Federal dog catcher? Not wise to brag about degrees on Rogers blog,the place is heaving with them.

“Working on my fourth book. Who the hell are you?”

First three didn’t sell then! Who am I? let us just say I’m one of those that did get the job.

This is farewell,I’m not wasting any more of Roger’s bandwidth on a troll shilling for comments for his site.

Apr 27, 2005 - 8:01 am 107. Buddy Larsen:

Working on your fourth book? Hell I’ve read SEVEN books.

Apr 27, 2005 - 8:24 am 108. marky48:

Got yourself a flunky job eh mate? Wonderful! Rich with detail. You must be a writer.

Apr 27, 2005 - 5:24 pm 109. Buddy Larsen:

Who me? No, I’m like you, wealthy, famous, possessed of vast numbers of degrees, published novels, important careers, beautiful women, piles of money, and an internet connection.

Apr 27, 2005 - 10:12 pm 110. marky48:

Maybe but mine can be checked by anyone. Can’t say that about you can we anony-mouse?

Apr 28, 2005 - 6:35 pm 111. Buddy Larsen:

But I’m not trying to prove anything, as you are, marky. I don’t know what your point is, exactly.

Haven’t you ever caught on that the harder you try to convince folks you’re sharp, the duller you get?

For example, your comment on the more current thread that you’re meeting with John Kerry this weekend…what a personality, that makes internet brags to strangers…and Kerry, for cryin’ out loud…what a set of losers for THAT little party. Two thoroughly unpleasant morons in the same room!

Oh well…I DO hope you get him another nomination.

Apr 29, 2005 - 5:38 am 112. Buddy Larsen:

And, what’s your name, Mr. Non-Anony-mouse “Marky48? Mine is Buddy Larsen, not Budsy48.

I live between Dripping Springs and Blanco, Texas…Flatcreek Ranch, way up Bluerock Trail, off hwy 165.

Now, where can someone find YOU, “marky”? …besides four feet up George Soros’ large intestine.

Apr 29, 2005 - 5:47 am

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