<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Dashiell Hammett would flunk&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:51:54 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Cal</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47175</link>
		<dc:creator>Cal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2005 16:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47175</guid>
		<description>You all are missing the point of the new writing section.



The College Board had an optional SAT II Writing test that any college could require a student take. Fewer than 100 colleges did. The University of California did require the writing test, so it already had the writing sample. For some reason, however, it required that the writing test and the math/reading test all be issued on the same day.



The College Board could have added an optional writing section to meet this requirement. Instead, it made the writing test mandatory.



Why? &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.footballfansfortruth.us/archives/000974.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;About $18 million&lt;/a&gt;. That&#039;s a year.



As for what the essay tests--it doesn&#039;t test writing skills at all. A poorly written essay that provides examples and states a position will receive a higher score than a beautifully written essay that relies on analysis. The test, for what it&#039;s worth, tests reasoning skills via written expression.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You all are missing the point of the new writing section.</p>
<p>The College Board had an optional SAT II Writing test that any college could require a student take. Fewer than 100 colleges did. The University of California did require the writing test, so it already had the writing sample. For some reason, however, it required that the writing test and the math/reading test all be issued on the same day.</p>
<p>The College Board could have added an optional writing section to meet this requirement. Instead, it made the writing test mandatory.</p>
<p>Why? <a href="http://www.footballfansfortruth.us/archives/000974.html" rel="nofollow">About $18 million</a>. That&#8217;s a year.</p>
<p>As for what the essay tests&#8211;it doesn&#8217;t test writing skills at all. A poorly written essay that provides examples and states a position will receive a higher score than a beautifully written essay that relies on analysis. The test, for what it&#8217;s worth, tests reasoning skills via written expression.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Half Sigma</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47174</link>
		<dc:creator>Half Sigma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2005 01:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47174</guid>
		<description>It would require a massive increase in the time it takes to grade essays if facts had to be checked. And that would not be fair to the test taker who doesn&#039;t have any reference materials available when writing the answer.



The essay is supposed to be a test of writing ability, not a test of knowledge about any topic other than English.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would require a massive increase in the time it takes to grade essays if facts had to be checked. And that would not be fair to the test taker who doesn&#8217;t have any reference materials available when writing the answer.</p>
<p>The essay is supposed to be a test of writing ability, not a test of knowledge about any topic other than English.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kyda Sylvester</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47173</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyda Sylvester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 00:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47173</guid>
		<description>In my day it &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; a Writing Sample and optional. Good luck, aviazn, and I&#039;m betting you&#039;ll do just fine.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my day it <i>was</i> a Writing Sample and optional. Good luck, aviazn, and I&#8217;m betting you&#8217;ll do just fine.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: aviazn</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47172</link>
		<dc:creator>aviazn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 22:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47172</guid>
		<description>The College Board would be far better off if they stopped calling it an essay and referred to it as a writing sample.  It may be written in the form of an essay, but it&#039;s purpose is not to judge the student&#039;s ability to research and craft a thorough essay, as that would indeed take far longer than 25 minutes.  Rather, its purpose is only to judge the student&#039;s ability to write in the broadest sense--that is, the ability to communicate effectively through the written language.  The contents of the essay aren&#039;t as important as the strength and quality of the composition, which will indeed be apparent in a sample of writing of any length.  And it&#039;s true that yes, at my age, the well-written essays will tend to be longer.  It&#039;s hard to BS your way through a high school essay assignment without it being immediately apparent that you don&#039;t have a clue what you&#039;re talking.  I say this as a high school senior preparing to take the College Board&#039;s Advanced Placement English Literature exam tomorrow morning, a test that, as it should, requires writing of greater depth.  It devotes a full two hours to writing three essays of literary analysis--essays in which the content, organization, and accuracy are most definitely critiqued by the graders.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The College Board would be far better off if they stopped calling it an essay and referred to it as a writing sample.  It may be written in the form of an essay, but it&#8217;s purpose is not to judge the student&#8217;s ability to research and craft a thorough essay, as that would indeed take far longer than 25 minutes.  Rather, its purpose is only to judge the student&#8217;s ability to write in the broadest sense&#8211;that is, the ability to communicate effectively through the written language.  The contents of the essay aren&#8217;t as important as the strength and quality of the composition, which will indeed be apparent in a sample of writing of any length.  And it&#8217;s true that yes, at my age, the well-written essays will tend to be longer.  It&#8217;s hard to BS your way through a high school essay assignment without it being immediately apparent that you don&#8217;t have a clue what you&#8217;re talking.  I say this as a high school senior preparing to take the College Board&#8217;s Advanced Placement English Literature exam tomorrow morning, a test that, as it should, requires writing of greater depth.  It devotes a full two hours to writing three essays of literary analysis&#8211;essays in which the content, organization, and accuracy are most definitely critiqued by the graders.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pat Curley</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47171</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Curley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 21:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47171</guid>
		<description>I suspect that in general, and especially at that age, the longer essays are better written, so this is not as surprising or disturbing a result as it might seem.  As for the &quot;dodgy on the facts&quot;, hey, maybe they&#039;re just preparing the students for a career in the MSM!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that in general, and especially at that age, the longer essays are better written, so this is not as surprising or disturbing a result as it might seem.  As for the &#8220;dodgy on the facts&#8221;, hey, maybe they&#8217;re just preparing the students for a career in the MSM!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Syl</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47170</link>
		<dc:creator>Syl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 19:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47170</guid>
		<description>I guess that



&#039;Do it on the radio&#039;



wouldn&#039;t pass.



:)



As the professor said to &#039;Rita&#039;, that is an argument, not an essay.



However, to write is to put thoughts on paper. If your thoughts are jumbled, so is your writing. Yet if your grammar is good, and the sentence structure easy to comprehend it does not follow that the thinking behind it is even adequate. It can &#039;sound&#039; right yet still be nonsense.



The question is really &#039;what are they testing?&#039; and the follow up question would be &#039;why?&#039;






</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess that</p>
<p>&#8216;Do it on the radio&#8217;</p>
<p>wouldn&#8217;t pass.</p>
<p> <img src='http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As the professor said to &#8216;Rita&#8217;, that is an argument, not an essay.</p>
<p>However, to write is to put thoughts on paper. If your thoughts are jumbled, so is your writing. Yet if your grammar is good, and the sentence structure easy to comprehend it does not follow that the thinking behind it is even adequate. It can &#8217;sound&#8217; right yet still be nonsense.</p>
<p>The question is really &#8216;what are they testing?&#8217; and the follow up question would be &#8216;why?&#8217;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cynic</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47169</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 18:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47169</guid>
		<description>From Instapundit&#039;s post



&quot;He was stunned by how complete the correlation was between length and score. &quot;I have never found a quantifiable predictor in 25 years of grading that was anywhere near as strong as this one,&quot; he said. &quot;If you just graded them based on length without ever reading them, you&#039;d be right over 90 percent of the time.&quot; The shortest essays, typically 100 words, got the lowest grade of one. The longest, about 400 words, got the top grade of six. In between, there was virtually a direct match between length and grade.



He was also struck by all the factual errors in even the top essays. . . .&quot;



I remember one of the tenured, at the place I studied, was said to have thrown the tests down the flight of stairs in the lecture theater. Those that slid all the way down to the front row got the highest marks.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Instapundit&#8217;s post</p>
<p>&#8220;He was stunned by how complete the correlation was between length and score. &#8220;I have never found a quantifiable predictor in 25 years of grading that was anywhere near as strong as this one,&#8221; he said. &#8220;If you just graded them based on length without ever reading them, you&#8217;d be right over 90 percent of the time.&#8221; The shortest essays, typically 100 words, got the lowest grade of one. The longest, about 400 words, got the top grade of six. In between, there was virtually a direct match between length and grade.</p>
<p>He was also struck by all the factual errors in even the top essays. . . .&#8221;</p>
<p>I remember one of the tenured, at the place I studied, was said to have thrown the tests down the flight of stairs in the lecture theater. Those that slid all the way down to the front row got the highest marks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: erp</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47168</link>
		<dc:creator>erp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 16:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47168</guid>
		<description>Fact checking?  Isn&#039;t that what editors are for?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fact checking?  Isn&#8217;t that what editors are for?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob_R</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47167</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob_R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 16:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47167</guid>
		<description>I think I&#039;d cut ETS some slack on the issue of &quot;facts.&quot;  The alternative is to rigorously fact check each essay.  (I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a good idea to mark off only for &quot;obvious&quot; mistakes.  The kids will be loading essays with esoteric BS.)  Maybe there is a better way to grade on sentence and paragraph structure and tools of rhetoric without considering facts ñ how about an ìalternate historyî assignment.



The issue of length is far more interesting.  Pearlman (whose MIT credential are flashed promiscuously) seems to have based his conclusions on 54 essays selected by ETS to be representative.  It may be true that ìeverything at MIT is backed by data,î but thatís just plain lousy data.  Iíd be interested to hear how Pearlman graded the essays (assuming he went by the ETS anti-Joe Friday rules).  In a 20 minute essay, there would certainly be a positive correlation between length and a studentís writing ability.  Iím sure that ETS will respond to this, and it will be interesting to see how.



Since it is in the NYT, we are taking a big chance in assuming that any of the article is accurate.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I&#8217;d cut ETS some slack on the issue of &#8220;facts.&#8221;  The alternative is to rigorously fact check each essay.  (I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a good idea to mark off only for &#8220;obvious&#8221; mistakes.  The kids will be loading essays with esoteric BS.)  Maybe there is a better way to grade on sentence and paragraph structure and tools of rhetoric without considering facts ñ how about an ìalternate historyî assignment.</p>
<p>The issue of length is far more interesting.  Pearlman (whose MIT credential are flashed promiscuously) seems to have based his conclusions on 54 essays selected by ETS to be representative.  It may be true that ìeverything at MIT is backed by data,î but thatís just plain lousy data.  Iíd be interested to hear how Pearlman graded the essays (assuming he went by the ETS anti-Joe Friday rules).  In a 20 minute essay, there would certainly be a positive correlation between length and a studentís writing ability.  Iím sure that ETS will respond to this, and it will be interesting to see how.</p>
<p>Since it is in the NYT, we are taking a big chance in assuming that any of the article is accurate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick Tyson</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47166</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Tyson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 16:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/04/dashiell-hammett-would-flunk/#comment-47166</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It cautions that a single, 25-minute writing test ignores the most basic lesson of writing - that good writing is rewriting.&lt;/i&gt;



Amen.



That being written, factual errors aren&#039;t an issue and volume is actually something that might lend this element of the test some meaning provided it is clear that what is being tested is the ability to write extemporaneously in a limited amount of time without any source/reference materials and the ability to rewrite.



The SAT is not a teaching tool; it&#039;s a testing tool.  Is what is being tested of any real importance?  Was it ever?  Will anyone look back on the test and remember anything but his or her score a few months later?  I didn&#039;t even remember that after a year or two at Cal.



Remembering what my writing  habits were like in high school, I think I would have done very well.  The classmates for whom I occaisionally wrote (financial remuneration being the reason) would not.  I once wrote a hundred-plus page essay inwhich I misspelt a single word over forty times.  I still got the highest grade in the class.  I did check facts (encyclopedia, almanac, etc.), but I didn&#039;t rewrite&#8212;and,  obviously, I wrote in a time when spell-checking meant looking in the dictionary and/or noticing how words were spelt while reading source material.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It cautions that a single, 25-minute writing test ignores the most basic lesson of writing &#8211; that good writing is rewriting.</i></p>
<p>Amen.</p>
<p>That being written, factual errors aren&#8217;t an issue and volume is actually something that might lend this element of the test some meaning provided it is clear that what is being tested is the ability to write extemporaneously in a limited amount of time without any source/reference materials and the ability to rewrite.</p>
<p>The SAT is not a teaching tool; it&#8217;s a testing tool.  Is what is being tested of any real importance?  Was it ever?  Will anyone look back on the test and remember anything but his or her score a few months later?  I didn&#8217;t even remember that after a year or two at Cal.</p>
<p>Remembering what my writing  habits were like in high school, I think I would have done very well.  The classmates for whom I occaisionally wrote (financial remuneration being the reason) would not.  I once wrote a hundred-plus page essay inwhich I misspelt a single word over forty times.  I still got the highest grade in the class.  I did check facts (encyclopedia, almanac, etc.), but I didn&#8217;t rewrite&mdash;and,  obviously, I wrote in a time when spell-checking meant looking in the dictionary and/or noticing how words were spelt while reading source material.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
