Blood continues to flow and riots abound across the Islamic world from an anonymously sourced article in Newsweek that makes your average blog read like a legal brief for a Constitutional amendment.
Let’s take a moment to review what the Newsweek reporters wrote in their article.
Investigators probing interrogation abuses at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay have confirmed some infractions alleged in internal FBI e-mails that surfaced late last year. Among the previously unreported cases, sources tell NEWSWEEK: interrogators, in an attempt to rattle suspects, flushed a Qur’an down a toilet and led a detainee around with a collar and dog leash.
Sources? Multiple? I’d like to see backing for that. And is that one source for the Qur’an story and another for the collar and leash episode or are they multiple (anonymous, of course) sources for the same story? Newsweek isn’t saying. In fact what is Newsweek’s policy about this? Inquiring (and moral) minds would like to know.
But never mind that. Even the simple mind would like to know how you flush a Qur’an down a toilet? It doesn’t take the late Johnny Cochran to see there is a problem here. (”If the Qur’an don’t fit, you must acquit!”) Of course, someone could have been doing this desecrating page by page, though it is unlikely, unless Guantanamo has some extraordinary plumbing, that he or she would have gotten very far.
In fact, if we are to believe the chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Richard Myers, whom I suspect would not risk his credibility on a monumental matter like this without having done at least some homework, the event was, if anything, the opposite of what Newsweek said. According to the Reuters article linked above, Myers said “the only incident recorded in the prison logs was of a detainee tearing pages from a Quran and using them in an attempt to block a toilet as a protest, and even that incident, he said, was unconfirmed.”
So what is going on at Newsweek? Has their ancient business model (the weekly newsmagazine) become so procrustean that they must resort to unsourced scoops on the Internet to call attention to themselves? This is something that bloggers are accused of. But of course they are worse than bloggers because they are not subject to our immediate feedback and editing, as I am just beneath this post. If I were to make a similar anonymously sourced accusation on here, I would be crucified by my readers and deservedly so. If my source proved to be lying or significantly embellishing on a matter of this gravity (and with such dire results), I would feel so ashamed I don’t believe I would continue this blog. If that happens to Newsweek, they and their reporters will have to deal with their own consciences.
PJM Home
Pajamas Media appreciates your comments that abide by the following guidelines:
1. Avoid profanities or foul language unless it is contained in a necessary quote or is relevant to the comment.
2. Stay on topic.
3. Disagree, but avoid ad hominem attacks.
4. Threats are treated seriously and reported to law enforcement.
5. Spam and advertising are not permitted in the comments area.
The clause regarding "hate speech" has been deleted because readers criticized it as being too loosely defined. We agreed.
These guidelines are very general and cannot cover every possible situation. Please don't assume that Pajamas Media management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment. We reserve the right to filter or delete comments or to deny posting privileges entirely at our discretion. If you feel your comment was filtered inappropriately, please email us at story@pajamasmedia.com.
36 Comments
1. chuck:I liked the USA today heading up in the left corner, IIRC: “Afghanis rally against the US”. Rally? Sounds like a game. Would that make Newsweek the cheerleader?
May 14, 2005 - 7:25 am 2. PamiC-USA:“If that happens to Newsweek, they and their reporters will have to deal with their own consciences.”
They have a conscience??? Since when??
May 14, 2005 - 7:51 am 3. PJ:To them, sitting in their air-conditioned offices in Manhattan, nothing matters except their pompous moralism, telling “truth to power.” If people get killed, hey, too bad–they’re only the messenger.
Every time I read an article like this, I get a picture in my head of 17th-century aristocrats mincing around their weekly salon, drinking champagne and gossiping away, oblivious to the angry mob growing outside the gates.
May 14, 2005 - 8:20 am 4. Jamie Irons:Roger,
I couldn’t agree more with what you write here.
And there is another aspect to this.
Now, no matter what happens with this story, even if it is shown to be entirely without any basis in fact, and perhaps especially if it is shown that it was the prisoner flushing the Q’uran down the loo, for the Islamic world, this one is never going to go away.
This story will live forever, because it fits the Islamic (or perhaps I should say “Islamist,” I am really not sure) narrative.
Jamie Irons
May 14, 2005 - 8:31 am 5. richard mcenroe:When advised of the result of the Newsweek article, sources report Managing Editor Evan Thomas said, “Yes! I still got it!”
May 14, 2005 - 8:45 am 6. Soldier's Dad:Newsweek News speak
Anonymous source – the guy standing next to you in the mens room
Knowledgeable source – the drunk at the end of the bar
Informed Source – Taxi Driver
Reliable Source – the Bar Tender
Influential Source – the Hotel Concierge
May 14, 2005 - 9:04 am 7. PeterArgus:Newsweek’s new (well actually plagiarized) slogan:
“We report, you commit the homicide.”
May 14, 2005 - 9:14 am 8. neo-neocon:To paraphrase the words of a hero of liberals and the left, Joe Welch, “Have they no shame?” The answer, unfortunately, appears to be, “No.”
May 14, 2005 - 9:44 am 9. Rick Ballard:Roger,
I certainly hope that neither you nor any of the bloggers constituting the PNS would actually quit blogging when you find you’ve been played by a source you have deemed reliable. I’ve always thought that assurances of confidentiality given to sources should be accompanied by an admonishment that if the information provided proves to be (in your opinion) intentionally false, then all promises are void and every detail will be revealed. You’re not omniscient and some of the slimeballs feeding information on OFF are very, very clever. There is also the longer political game in play here and I would say that there are elements involved who would nudge you off a cliff without even the pretence of pity. One error would never cause me to lose faith in your honesty.
Wrt al-Newsweek – the American people continue to vote by not purchasing or subscribing to publications dedicated to anti-Americanism. Al-Newsweek’s owners will eventually find that replacing a good portion of their editorial staff will be the only action that might save their currently execrable product. Not with me, ever, but new suckers come of age every day.
May 14, 2005 - 9:54 am 10. RBMN:I predict fewer heads will roll at Newsweek (metaphorically) over this profoundly reckless story, than the number of “infidel” heads that roll (actually) in the Muslim World over this story. Fewer probably equaling zero, in this case.
May 14, 2005 - 9:58 am 11. Cosmo:Roger:
An alleged insult to Islam should only be a “monumental matter” for Muslims and dhimmis. That such a thing has become “monumental” on this blog is a sign of how far we may have slipped into dhimmitude.
Since when is a murderous rampage the accepted or expected (appropriate?) response to an insult? Imagine Christians rioting over routine desecration of their religious symbols, like “Piss Christ,” or Americans rioting each time some hothead is shown buring the flag on the evening news. (Interesting how multi-culti pieties like respecting the sensibilities of others is always selectively applied.)
Forget blaming Newsweek’s malpractice or any actual ‘desecration’ of the Koran for the violence. Let’s call this for what it really is — a response all out of proportion to the alleged offense, like a lynching in response to ’sullied honor’ — behavior we wouldn’t tolerate from any other group, but given a pass by apologists who’ve become masters at playing the grievance game.
Like the Miss Universe riots a few years back, triggered by another alleged ‘insult’ to Muslims, we have allowed ourselves, once again, to be distracted by defensive arguments over ‘who caused it’ instead of being outraged by such inexcusable, over-the-top barbarity.
May 14, 2005 - 10:30 am 12. Roger:I take your point, Cosmo.
But I’m not sure concern about this makes us dhimmis. The insane overreaction to this of a segment of the Islamic world is indeed predictable and very sad. It is our duty both morally and pragmatically to help change this situation. I don’t think the people at Newsweek have figured that out yet.
May 14, 2005 - 11:27 am 13. Syl:I’m with Cosmo here. The MSM prints questionable ‘facts’ from questionable sources all the time. They should be criticized for doing it no matter the consequences they caused.
That the specific consequences of this Newsweek article has caused death is tragic, but those consequences would have occurred even if the story were true.
We’re outraged at the motives of Newsweek which was too eager to show America in a bad light and we’re using the reaction of muslims to bludgeon Newsweek. What if in the future Newsweek prints something we know to be true that is deemed an insult to Islam? Are we then to use the muslim reaction as a bludgeon against Newsweek for reporting something true?
America is not perfect but we have freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and yes that freedom allows us to make mistakes and commit errors of judgement. The reaction of the muslim world is a totally separate issue if we are going to maintain our freedoms.
IMHO the muslim world has to get used to things it doesn’t like without resorting to violence. Isn’t that what this war of civilization is all about?
May 14, 2005 - 11:59 am 14. chuck:Syl,
You and Cosmo have a point. Nevertheless, we are fighting a war and it is completely irresponsible of Newsweek to inflame opinion among both our potential allies and our enemies. When the stakes are high, responsible folks think twice before going it alone and telling everyone else to go to hell if they can’t take a joke. So until you wave the magic tolerance wand and turn everyone into right thinking modern Americans, I am going to maintain that Newsweek screwed up.
May 14, 2005 - 12:35 pm 15. Terrye:Syl:
I agree to a certain extent but we are dealing with a part of the world in which knifing your own sister for sullying the family honor is not only acceptable but in some circles required.
That is part of the problem. The other part is an irresponsible and out of control media that thinks they can say whatever they want without having to back it up. Once upon a time they were supposed to have at least two sources for a story like this.
I am sick of the media people like Newsweek printing anything they can come up with to cause trouble and I am also sick of the super senstive and completely intolerant Islamists who demand that the whole wide world sucks up to them while they kill and maim people all over the frigging planet.
I read that the most dangerous place to be a reporter is the Phillipines. Guess who is killing them?
So I know what you mean, but Newsweek wanted to make trouble. I am sure they knew better and just did not give a rat’s ass.
In fact I think the media has been pissy about the progress in Afghanistan and the low death toll and wanted to do their part to liven things up.
They do so love a good flag burning.
May 14, 2005 - 2:05 pm 16. chuck:Greyhawk has a good discussion of the article, as well as the immediate source. A contributor to Time magazine is also in the picture.
May 14, 2005 - 3:32 pm 17. Terrye:chuck:
I read that. I wonder how many people will die when Saar’s book is published.
A woman in thong underwear touching a man. oh the horror.
May 14, 2005 - 3:58 pm 18. Rick Ballard:I would take issue with Cosmo and Syl to a certain extent. Cosmo wrote “behavior we wouldn’t tolerate from any other group”, which is not quite true. Rev. Al incited a riot that caused several deaths without much in the way of repercussion. I’ll grant that the rioters were scum in both instances but I must reserve utter contempt for those who knowingly incite the riots. Newsweek has the same status with me as the howling mullahs in Palestine or Egypt who whip crowds to a frenzy on any given Friday with lies and distortions. The fact that the rioters engage in barbaric practice does not relieve the instigators of a higher level of responsibility. Imam Evans needs to wear this albatross ’til it stops stinking.
May 14, 2005 - 4:11 pm 19. Terrye:Rick:
They have a symbiotic relationship. The press feeds off the wackos and the wackos feed off the press. The result is mayhem.
May 14, 2005 - 4:37 pm 20. Terrye:Well I jsut saw that Karzai is demanding the guilty be punished.
that is just great.
What if it did not even happen?
Are they going to have to go find some fall guy to take the rap.
btw the punishment for desecration of the Koran is death.
May 14, 2005 - 5:08 pm 21. Syl:I concede. I concede. It was the ‘inciting to riot’ analogy that got to me. That is not protected speech.
It’s almost as if the MSM believes the Evangelicals and Islamists are equivalent. They’ve been insulting and baiting the Christians and happened to toss out an insult to muslims as an aside while putting down America vis a vis Guantanimo. Do they understand the difference in reactions between Christians and muslims and what it means?
Karzai has turned against us. Years of building up support for hearts and minds down the toilet with the Quran.
May 14, 2005 - 5:54 pm 22. Terrye:Syl:
I don’t think the media do see the difference. They have come to believe their own rhetoric. The Ten Commandments and the Koran are the same damn thing to them. freaking idiots.
They need to stop and look at this and realize that this is what religious extremism is. Singing Christmas carols at Christmas is not the same thing as going bezerk and having a riot.
I don’t think Karzai has turned on us; I think he is trying to put a dmaper on this. The sad thing is he feels the need to make such a statement and as far as that is concerned Condi Rice has promised that if there is truth to this the guilty will be punished. whatever that means.
One thing I do find interesting. The article I read in the Times said that two thousand people demonstrated in Kabul and hundreds turned out in Indonesia and Gaza.
Is that all? How many people are we really talking about here?
May 14, 2005 - 6:13 pm 23. richard mcenroe:Oh, c’mon, Terrye, of course they’re equivalent. Why, don’t you remember the mobs of berserk Catholics who tore the Pope’s body from the casket the way they did with the Khomeini Funeral in Tehran?
May 14, 2005 - 8:23 pm 24. Michael Babbitt:What Newsweek did here exhibits two noteworthy qualities: first, the willingness to use anonymous sourcing in a very questionable manner, as has been discussed. And secondly, an ignorance and or callousness of the consequences of their report. The second quality is especially vile considering the reality of the first. This might be a totally made up and manipulated story by others with a beef to pick with the US military and then to propagate this ‘information’ into the world arena without concern for its consequences is, in my mind, a deep moral crime. I will never buy Newsweek — or listen to its reporters anymore as if they had any credibility. To stand up for or rationalize this kind of garbage reflects on the whole organization and all of its participants.
May 14, 2005 - 8:28 pm 25. Terrye:I went to the newsweek site and sent them a letter.
I doubt it will matter.
May 14, 2005 - 9:22 pm 26. Kyda Sylvester:Rice said “Our military authorities are investigating these allegations fully. If they are proven true, we will take appropriate action. …” Which article of the Uniform Code of Military Justice addresses flushing the Koran and what’s the punishment?
May 14, 2005 - 10:09 pm 27. Terrye:Kyda:
Hell if I know.
I wonder how much of this is just politics. I hear that Karzai has been having some success with his reconciliation program and the hard core Taliban don’t like that.
This is just what they needed to mess up Karzai.
May 14, 2005 - 10:26 pm 28. Ripclawe:Now Newsweek has a followup and say their source is now unclear where he read. They are also showing shock about the rioting and deaths, trying to push the blame on westerners not seeing the resentment of the American presence before. Its a horrific CYA.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/
May 15, 2005 - 3:28 am 29. Terrye:Ripclawe:
I just read that . Unbelievable. So do they hate us for going after the poppies or for the Koran or being infidels or what?
The media is so irresponsible.
Just the other day I saw a story on the cnn news site about how the Afhgan poppy fields were a threat to world stability or some such over the top crap and now we hear the US is breeding resentment by trying to get rid of the poppies and by just in general being infidels in the “decrepit” land of the war lords. And so it is not Newsweek’s fault if the natives go bonkers.
The media resented the nominal successes the US had in Afghanistan and thought they would screw things up for the Bushies and feed the liberal base and things got out of hand.
way to go assholes.
I think someone should be held accountable for this. It is like screaming fire in a theatre.
And no doubt the detainees will come up with all kinds of stories when they are released and the media will be only to happy to spread them around. get some more people killed. screw things up for a backward nation and more importantly create problems for the hated neocons.
no wonder more and more people hate the media.
May 15, 2005 - 6:43 am 30. Luther McLeod:Terrye, you are oh so right.
A statement that has been so overused, but… we have seen the enemy and he is us…Pogo
May 15, 2005 - 7:05 am 31. jedrury:Lest we forget:
Newsweek’s last scoop, according to the Newsweek PR department, was the Monica story which occurred in January 1998. The truth was the article had been effectively pulled [even though Mike Isikoff had written the story] because Newsweek’s owner, the WashPo, thought it too hot. If it had not been for Drudge leaking the story on his website, Monica and Bubba’s cigar would have died on the editor’s floor. Once the leak, Newsweek was compelled to go ahead with its scoop and declare itself the avatar of the First Amendment. Its subsequent rewrite of its scoop, through Isikoff’s book, is a complete whitewash of its prostitution.
Time/Newsweek, mainly bought by dentists’ for their sitting rooms and college students for
the toilet, have no reason to exist except to put their columnists on chat shows. Their color filled tabloid formats are boring and uninformative except for those who are concerned about the exploits of Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore.
May 15, 2005 - 7:29 am 32. dougf:“I think someone should be held accountable for this. It is like screaming fire in a theatre”–Terrye
This is exactly the correct analogy.And the MSM does this ALL the time.ALL THE TIME.
They are perfidious beyond redemption,and many innocents will die because of their amoral and thoughtless actions.And they won’t care in the least unless you consider gloating over a ’successful’ story as a form of caring.
May 15, 2005 - 8:13 am 33. richard mcenroe:Here’s the latest on Evan Thomas, the Butcher of 57th Street .
But let’s be fair to Evan. It’s just a bunch of faceless brown wogs killing each other, how does that really stack up agains the chance to get another dig in at the Administration….?
May 15, 2005 - 8:50 am 34. Terrye:richard:
Well the clerics want the culprits, turn him over.
May 15, 2005 - 10:13 am 35. markus:The real outrage as far as I can tell is that Newsweek has been cowed into apologizing. The key fact is that they ran the story by the Pentagon before publishing it. No one gave a shit until blood started spilling in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Or so it would appear from reading the following paragraph in today’s Washington Post article:
“[Editor Mark Whitaker] said that a senior Pentagon official, for reasons that “are still a little mysterious to us,” had declined to comment after Newsweek correspondent John Barry showed him a draft before the item was published and asked, “Is this accurate or not?” Whitaker added that the magazine would have held off had military spokesmen made such a request. That official “lacked detailed knowledge” of the investigative report, Newsweek now says. Whitaker said Pentagon officials raised no objection to the story for 11 days after it was published, until it was translated by some Arab media outlets and led to the rioting.”
WHY DIDN’T THE SENIOR MILITARY OFFICIAL DO HIS JOB AND VERIFY THE ACCURACY OR INACCURACY OF THE REPORT?
May 16, 2005 - 10:44 am 36. hawkmoon1:RE:
WHY DIDN’T THE SENIOR MILITARY OFFICIAL DO HIS JOB AND VERIFY THE ACCURACY OR INACCURACY OF THE REPORT?
“Senior Pentagon Official?” – who was this Senior Pentagon official? If this was just another anonymous source I would assume that it was absolutely NOT their job to be able to verify the accuracy or inaccuracy of ANY report. Since they weren’t talking to an official pentagon spokesperson the official could probably only verify limited portions of the report of which they might have some personal knowledge. You can’t deny something you don’t know anything about. That’s the problem with talking to anonymous sources… These people can be passing incomplete facts or total gossip. And finally you find that in the end they can’t be held accountable for the accuracy or inaccuracy of their statements… as Newsweek is finding out with it’s sources.
May 16, 2005 - 4:20 pm