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	<title>Comments on: Before 9/11</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/</link>
	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: ikez78</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50021</link>
		<dc:creator>ikez78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Dec 2006 21:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>More on Saddam&#039;s links to al Qaeda are available at www.regimeofterror.com

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More on Saddam&#8217;s links to al Qaeda are available at <a href="http://www.regimeofterror.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.regimeofterror.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50020</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2005 04:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That it does, Cecil. Alas.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That it does, Cecil. Alas.</p>
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		<title>By: Cecil Turner</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50019</link>
		<dc:creator>Cecil Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2005 20:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;The airplane fragmentatation, as I understand, is such that tho no missile shoot-down could be proven, an airburst SAM fragment can&#039;t be totally disproven, either.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;



I saw pictures of the pieced-together airplane during the reconstruction--in the area of interest, there were large, relatively flat, unmarked pieces of fuselage.  Certainly not what you&#039;d expect from a proximity-fuzed missile warhead (which all large AAMs are).  Perhaps not totally disproven, but IMO vanishingly improbable.



I&#039;d certainly agree on the Times&#039; lack of investigative interest.  And for all the mea culpas over the war coverage (and whining from the left over Judith Miller&#039;s focus on irrelevancies like aluminum tubes), when the Times posted a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/ref/international/middleeast/20040526CRITIQUE.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sampling&lt;/a&gt; of their coverage, it almost entirely minimizes the evidence, not the other way &#039;round.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;The airplane fragmentatation, as I understand, is such that tho no missile shoot-down could be proven, an airburst SAM fragment can&#8217;t be totally disproven, either.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I saw pictures of the pieced-together airplane during the reconstruction&#8211;in the area of interest, there were large, relatively flat, unmarked pieces of fuselage.  Certainly not what you&#8217;d expect from a proximity-fuzed missile warhead (which all large AAMs are).  Perhaps not totally disproven, but IMO vanishingly improbable.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d certainly agree on the Times&#8217; lack of investigative interest.  And for all the mea culpas over the war coverage (and whining from the left over Judith Miller&#8217;s focus on irrelevancies like aluminum tubes), when the Times posted a <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/ref/international/middleeast/20040526CRITIQUE.html" rel="nofollow">sampling</a> of their coverage, it almost entirely minimizes the evidence, not the other way &#8217;round.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50018</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2005 16:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If not the whole article, try to scan to the paragraphs related to the Kuwaiti public info records robbery. It is the vital missing link.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If not the whole article, try to scan to the paragraphs related to the Kuwaiti public info records robbery. It is the vital missing link.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50017</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2005 16:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good points, both of yez. The airplane fragmentatation, as I understand, is such that tho no missile shoot-down could be proven, an airburst SAM fragment can&#039;t be totally disproven, either. And as far as Ramsi Yousef &amp; the &#039;93 WTC, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/283&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt;, from the well-connected Benador people, rounds up a pretty good Saddam/WTC connection coming two years after Gulf War I, when Saddam would&#039;ve needed to show some vengeance in order to maintain his warlord pecking-order. Inexplicably, such info as this was never picked up in the MSM, tho it seems like almost a duty for concerned investigative reporters for entities such as the NYTimes to&#039;ve done so.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, both of yez. The airplane fragmentatation, as I understand, is such that tho no missile shoot-down could be proven, an airburst SAM fragment can&#8217;t be totally disproven, either. And as far as Ramsi Yousef &amp; the &#8216;93 WTC, <a href="http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/283" rel="nofollow">this article</a>, from the well-connected Benador people, rounds up a pretty good Saddam/WTC connection coming two years after Gulf War I, when Saddam would&#8217;ve needed to show some vengeance in order to maintain his warlord pecking-order. Inexplicably, such info as this was never picked up in the MSM, tho it seems like almost a duty for concerned investigative reporters for entities such as the NYTimes to&#8217;ve done so.</p>
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		<title>By: Cecil Turner</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50016</link>
		<dc:creator>Cecil Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2005 15:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;A mechanical problem suddenly surfacing OOTB. What, thousands of flights per day for how many years with that mech configuration, one would think the problem would&#039;ve arisen far far back in the equipment&#039;s history.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;



It&#039;s not terribly farfetched if the problem requires several simultaneous conditions: an empty fuel cell; boost pumps left on and overheating; a malfunction in the pump; and an electrical short causing a spark.  The alternative theories are much harder to credit: a bomb would have left explosive residue (none was found); a missile would have left distinctive damage to the aircraft (pictures show none).  Similarly, the Philippine Nichols/Al Qaeda claims I&#039;ve seen are all dated and thinly sourced.  The Iraq/Al Qaeda (and even 9/11) connections are an entirely different order of probablility.



Besides, the Iraq connection is relatively important (both as an indication of the threat and a casus belli); the others might make us more inclined to pursue Al Qaeda (which we&#039;re already doing), but really aren&#039;t in the same league.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;A mechanical problem suddenly surfacing OOTB. What, thousands of flights per day for how many years with that mech configuration, one would think the problem would&#8217;ve arisen far far back in the equipment&#8217;s history.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s not terribly farfetched if the problem requires several simultaneous conditions: an empty fuel cell; boost pumps left on and overheating; a malfunction in the pump; and an electrical short causing a spark.  The alternative theories are much harder to credit: a bomb would have left explosive residue (none was found); a missile would have left distinctive damage to the aircraft (pictures show none).  Similarly, the Philippine Nichols/Al Qaeda claims I&#8217;ve seen are all dated and thinly sourced.  The Iraq/Al Qaeda (and even 9/11) connections are an entirely different order of probablility.</p>
<p>Besides, the Iraq connection is relatively important (both as an indication of the threat and a casus belli); the others might make us more inclined to pursue Al Qaeda (which we&#8217;re already doing), but really aren&#8217;t in the same league.</p>
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		<title>By: PeterUK</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50015</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2005 14:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Buddy,

The problem in casting the net too wide on this will  be that weak evidence or surmise will be included,this the obvious suspects will pick up on and in their usual fashion use this to discredit the whole.Don&#039;t forget this is the &quot;I smoked it but didn&#039;t inhale crowd&quot;.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buddy,</p>
<p>The problem in casting the net too wide on this will  be that weak evidence or surmise will be included,this the obvious suspects will pick up on and in their usual fashion use this to discredit the whole.Don&#8217;t forget this is the &#8220;I smoked it but didn&#8217;t inhale crowd&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50014</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2005 13:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50014</guid>
		<description>Cecil, tho I concur with the principle of sobriety on these things, there&#039;s a rather large problem with each investigation, related to the odds. A mechanical problem suddenly surfacing OOTB. What, thousands of flights per day for how many years with that mech configuration, one would think the problem would&#039;ve arisen far far back in the equipment&#039;s history. I know, that&#039;s tin-hat proof but it raises questions because of those odds. On the other, Ramsi Youssef of &#039;93 WTC and Terry Nichols the Kansas farmer being simultaneously at the same hotel in the Phillipines is rather amazing. What&#039;re the odds of two US Large-Building terror-bombers hitting the same way-the-hell-off-the-beaten-path spa at the same time? Big, big odds.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cecil, tho I concur with the principle of sobriety on these things, there&#8217;s a rather large problem with each investigation, related to the odds. A mechanical problem suddenly surfacing OOTB. What, thousands of flights per day for how many years with that mech configuration, one would think the problem would&#8217;ve arisen far far back in the equipment&#8217;s history. I know, that&#8217;s tin-hat proof but it raises questions because of those odds. On the other, Ramsi Youssef of &#8216;93 WTC and Terry Nichols the Kansas farmer being simultaneously at the same hotel in the Phillipines is rather amazing. What&#8217;re the odds of two US Large-Building terror-bombers hitting the same way-the-hell-off-the-beaten-path spa at the same time? Big, big odds.</p>
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		<title>By: Cecil Turner</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50013</link>
		<dc:creator>Cecil Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2005 13:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50013</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;We, the American public, &quot;don&#039;t know&quot; what really happened in Okla.  [. . .] Same thing with the investigation of TWA Flight 800 . . .&quot;&lt;/i&gt;



I&#039;d be careful equating these to Iraq&#039;s and 9/11.  There are some clear indications of links between the IIS and Al Qaeda, many detailed in the 9/11 Commission Report. (And the liberal tendency to misreport &quot;no evidence of a collaborative operational relationship&quot; as &quot;no links&quot; is fairly easily disproven.)  The same cannot be said for OK City, where the links are suggestive at best.



TWA 800 was almost certainly a mechanical, caused by an undetermined fault in a center tank fuel boost pump (turning off those pumps when the tanks are empty has been the subject of several technical directives since).  Lumping those in with Iraq and 9/11 tends to discredit the argument on the latter.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;We, the American public, &#8220;don&#8217;t know&#8221; what really happened in Okla.  [. . .] Same thing with the investigation of TWA Flight 800 . . .&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;d be careful equating these to Iraq&#8217;s and 9/11.  There are some clear indications of links between the IIS and Al Qaeda, many detailed in the 9/11 Commission Report. (And the liberal tendency to misreport &#8220;no evidence of a collaborative operational relationship&#8221; as &#8220;no links&#8221; is fairly easily disproven.)  The same cannot be said for OK City, where the links are suggestive at best.</p>
<p>TWA 800 was almost certainly a mechanical, caused by an undetermined fault in a center tank fuel boost pump (turning off those pumps when the tanks are empty has been the subject of several technical directives since).  Lumping those in with Iraq and 9/11 tends to discredit the argument on the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: Terrye</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50012</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 May 2005 10:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/05/24/before-911/#comment-50012</guid>
		<description>Jen:



My family still lives in Oklahoma [and even though my brother is that rarest of things, a moonbat in Oklahoma] I think most of the people down there really wonder about that bombing.



Out of nowhere comes an attack that kills all those people and then that is it. Before it and after it there are attacks on the World Trade Center.



odd.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jen:</p>
<p>My family still lives in Oklahoma [and even though my brother is that rarest of things, a moonbat in Oklahoma] I think most of the people down there really wonder about that bombing.</p>
<p>Out of nowhere comes an attack that kills all those people and then that is it. Before it and after it there are attacks on the World Trade Center.</p>
<p>odd.</p>
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