131 Comments

1. scaramouoche:

I think you’re on to something when you call it psychotic. My oft-stated theory is that America-hatred, like Jew-hatred (its much-older sibling), corrodes the brain.

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:01 am 2. Baron Bodissey:

Slightly OT — but maybe Amnesty International should take a look at this one, a cross between the Manolo and Koran-gate:

Picture These Shoes.

The Hindus are rioting in the streets, torching buildings and overturning cars… NOT.

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:11 am 3. neo-neocon:

That’s an excellent question. I’m going to have to think about it long and hard.

But my gut response is that it has to do with the whole idea of relativistic truth. Words have become stripped of their meaning, because “truth” is only that, in the eyes of so many–a word that is always in scare quotes (whether the actual quotes are put in there or not) because it is always seen as suspect and arbitrary. Therefore a word such as “gulag” is only used for its emotional import, to mean in some general and amorphous way “a prison environment where people are sent by a government, for political reasons rather than something like theft, and where bad things happen to them.” To know (and care) what the actual Gulag was, how many people if affected, who they were, and why it has no relevance whatsoever to Gitmo, would be to learn something about history and facts.

It is no accident, no accident at all, that the metaphors used by Bush’s critics on the left are either Nazi or Communist comparisons. This has another function, which is to say: “see, they think they are better than we are, but really, they are the same or worse.” If parts of Old Europe might feel a bit guilty about the Nazis or the Holocaust, well then, what better revenge than to say Bush is like Hitler? And if leftists might feel a tad remorseful about the excesses of Communism such as the Gulag, what better way to expunge their feelings than to say Bush is running his own Gulag?

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:20 am 4. c:

Of course, it’s clinically mental that Progressives and Leftists like to insult this Republican President, his administration and policies with terms like “Hitler”, “Nazi”, “Satan”, “war criminal” and now “Soviet gulag”. Still, we can all hope that if all goes well the next few decades, the same people will be using epithets against a future Repub Prez, like “Saddam”, “Mugabe”, “Janjaweed”, “Taliban”, “al Qaeda”, “NoKo re-education camp”, “Chirac”, “UN kleptocrat” and “Amnesty International type”.

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:21 am 5. Cynic:

“It borders on the psychotic”

Yes it does and now many Americans should know what Israelis feel, and felt, when organs like the BBC produced programs (Panorama) saying that Israel was GASSING Palestinians (twice within a year they aired it).

The outrageous accusations continue and the unfortunate thing is that many in the world believe it.

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:22 am 6. David Thomson:

I think itís a sign of desperation. William Schultz reminds me somewhat of a spoiled child looking for attention. The utopian Left rightfully suspect that they are losing prestige and influence. America is becoming more conservative. They look around and see that the Republicans hold the majority power in Washington, DC. The MSM and their academic partners are being marginalized. Life is getting very cruel. Will some of these people turn violent? That unfortunately is a real possibility.

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:29 am 7. Dymphna:

“Why are some people, in this case an important human rights organization, incapable of rational discourse? The answers are depressing, I think, and lie at the intersection of psychoanalysis and greed.”

Do you mean psychosis and greed? That’s a reasonable argument, Mr. Simon, but I think it has more to do with power and self-aggrandizement than it has to do with greed. Though greed plays a part since people like Soros will continue to pour in money if the message stays on track.

In this post-modern (PoMo?) 21st century, we have run from the concept of evil, labeling it as an antediluvian notion that has no place in our oh-so rational world. We leave no room to consider the experience of betrayal — or Betrayal, depending on the context. And betrayals, big and small, are evil. They shred the fabric of trust and civil discourse.

Think about it: our lives are full of betrayals, the ones we perpetrate ourselves (harder to see) and the ones so casually done to us. In your business,particularly, it must be a professional hazard that you likely deal with on a weekly basis.

Animosity International and the ACLU (which has recently opened a London branch)are cut from the same sulfurous cloth. As a former member of the ACLU, it saddens me to have seen it travel down that same road.

Here’s the hopeful part: there are organizations gearing up to fight both of these evil anachronisms and to replace them with something more humane and — for lack of a better word — righteous (righteous in the way the word is used in Psalm 23…not the word as it has become to be associated with SELF-righteous).

If you like, I can give you information on them.

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:31 am 8. PeterUK:

It is all part and parcel of this – http://www.mererhetoric.com/archives/11271417.html -If it were a race it would be called nobbling one of the horses.

In all areas the bar is being lowered to restrict America’s room to manoeuvere.From unilateralism through depleted uranium to interrogation,anything that helps you win will be outlawed.

Only the through purification of losing bitterly will the US be deemed chastened enough to follow the path of righteousness.

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:35 am 9. Charlie (Colorado):

Moral cretins?

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:39 am 10. Jim Mc:

Roger, you said “What America has tried to do in Afghanistan and Iraq provokes rage in many people because they feel their own personas threatened.”

Something about that struck me as fundamentally right, but I’m not sure what. Can you say more what you meant about that?

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:46 am 11. jedrury:

Once these organizations achieve media credibility, their leaders step before the battery of microphones, they get full of themselves, actually thinking their statements can change the world and policy. With no checks on their tongues and the need to feed donations from the Soroses of the world, they exaggerate and posture and see themselves on the networks and think “we have arrived.” This is followed by an invitation to Hillary’s Capitol Hill office, a dinner with Chris Dodd, an interview with Katie and the BBC, all in a week. And, the cycle begins again.

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:47 am 12. Fresh Air:

Neo-Neo–

I can’t give Amnesty International a pass on the basis of semantics and Derridan relativism. That’s far too generous. They knew exactly what they were saying.

We can argue about what constitutes a gulag, but unless AI is proposing a new definition, the operative one is as Roger describes above–a Soviet encampment of extreme deprivation and hardship specifically designed and used to kill political prisoners. The means varied, from torture to forced labor to starvation to frostbite, but the ends were the same.

Nothing of the kind goes on at Guantanamo Bay or anywhere in the United States, and they know it full well.

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:48 am 13. uranari:

I think neo-neocon, and others, are onto something. It is important to remember that after WW2 the intellectuals on the continent spared no effort in erasing the meaning of words and arguing that America is as evil, or more evil than, Hitler or Stalin. Though in a subtle way, a way only the very intelligent can understand. A way of saving face, to use a term often associated with my part of the world, if you will. As one great thinker put it, if I do remember correctly, the continental intellectual traditions, which had been something to revere during earlier times, thus devolved into nothing more than “fanatical obscurantism.” Where the continent goes American intellectuals follow. This is where we are. Bush is Hitler. Guantanimo is the Gulag. Thankfully, the academy’s and the media’s reach is only so far. Thank goodness for intelligent anti-intellectuals who still answer two plus two with five, and understand what gulag and fascism really mean.

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:49 am 14. uranari:

Of course, I meant “two plus two with four”

(talk about messing up your argument, jeez)

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:51 am 15. c:

Well, you did say “anti-intellectual”, uranari!

Jun 1, 2005 - 10:59 am 16. Gerry:

Roger,

This Althouse post also seems relevant to me, in a dated manner. Back in 1972, Richard Nixon managed to knock Adolf Hitler off “The Most Hated and Feared Persons In History” list.

Dementia has been around for a long time.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:00 am 17. chuck:

This is hardly a new development. I recall having arguments about eastern europe with leftist folks back in the 70’s and their argument then was, well, the situation there was no worse than here because we also had political prisoners. I am not clear who our political prisoners supposedly *were* at the time, but this simple sort of equivalence that ignores both quantity and quality is a traditional.

I gave up arguing with the left long ago, there has never been anything rational about their views and to complain of this now is silly. Might as well complain about cats catching mice, although cats at least do something useful.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:01 am 18. uranari:

c,

“intelligent anti-intellectual,” i.e. someone who knows 2+2=4

modern, continental intellectual: 2+2=5, or whatever

me= prone to mistakes, but hearts in the right place

p.s. thank for giving me a laugh.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:07 am 19. Rick Ballard:

Was there some Golden Age of Amnesty International that I missed? A time when they presented the United States as a bastion of freedom and esemplar for all nations? As far back as I can remember AI has always spent twenty times the effort examining the motes in the US eye while ignoring the beams in the eyes of dictators.

One Worlder front organizations getting more hysterical as the potential for success of their hidden agendas recede is rather more normal rather than extraordinary. OTOH perhaps the SBL Ltd. group or the Saudis refused to continue heavy funding if AI did not become more strident.

Gotta keep the production of ko$fodder up or we’ll be seeing some truly extraordinary pyschosis.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:08 am 20. uranari:

that would be “thanks”

Time for bed. Oyasumi.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:08 am 21. Silicon valley Jim:

Michelle Malkin, not surprisingly, has a couple of posts relevant to this:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin060105.php3

http://michellemalkin.com/mt/mt-tb.cgi/2042

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:09 am 22. c:

uranari,

The point in your post was excellent. And, just so you know, your small typo lapses are nothing like mine. I won’t even sign my name, anymore! Ja matta ne! (Phonetics are all wrong, just to make you fell better!!)

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:14 am 23. truepeers:

Dymphna, I would love info on the organizations you mention, on list or reach me @gmail.com

The left is struggling right now with the fact that the conspiracy models of power are playing themselves out and they have nothing to put in their place, nothing that realistically balances the calls of freedom and equality, love and resentment. Hence while the old models did reach something of intellectual heights in the age of Foucault and Derrida – even if you disagree with conspiracy theories, you have to admit that they are the creme de la creme – and now there remains only the degeneration into silliness for the sake of pride, and a desperate desire for a sign that all of one’s life’s real and often genuine concern for the oppressed was not misconstrued self-righteousness: IOW, vain saving face as Uranari puts it. The alternative would be some kind of Christian conversion, and that is what is feared most of all. Hence Bushitler.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:15 am 24. uranari:

c,

Japanese. I’m impressed. (I really am heading to bed, er, futon.)

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:16 am 25. Kyda Sylvester:

It’s partly due to the irrational hatred of all things Bush and partly due to button pushing the AI donor class which leads directly back to the irrational hatred of all things Bush.

I have very little regard for most NGO’s as they are run by the same types that populate the worlds of academe, journalism and diplomacy. Case in point, William Shulz, Director AIUSA. Go here to listen to Shulz’s remarks at the press conference announcing the 2005 report at which he directed foreign governments to begin investigating American government officials and, if necessary, arrest them on foreign soil for persecution, er, prosecution in international court. It’s quite a performance.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:21 am 26. jerry:

I have had the following Socratic discourse with a typical AI bureaucrat:

Me: AI supports the right of women to choose their own path without fear of physical intimidation.

AI: Yes

Me: Where is this right respected Israel or Palestinian controlled territory?

AI: Israel

Me: AI supports the right of Gay people to live their lives without fear, intimidation and physical assaults.

AI: Yes

Me: Where is this right respected Israel or Palestinian controlled territory?

AI: Israel

Me: Many people in AI believe that women should unfettered access to Abortion.

AI: Yes

Me: Where is this right respected Israel or Palestinian controlled territory?

AI: Israel

Me: Since it is clear that you believe that essential rights are respected in Israel and denied in the Palestinian Territories why do you claim that Israel is one of the most egregious violators of Human rights?

AI: Because we hate Jews [and America] more then we love gays and women.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:34 am 27. Kevin P:

Roger:

AI has left the noble idea of looking at all human rights violations and just presenting the facts without joining any political or social faction and has drifted into decided what to focus their attention on in lockstep with politcal and social parties.It is one thing for a political party to propagandize for their party because the fact that they are pushing for their political goals is transparent and the people reading their material know that there is a political goal behind it.

AI likes to claim a purity of intentions and a George Washington like loathing of factions. AI has decided that they must join the left leaning view of the world,America and Israel are the greatest threat to world peace so they must be brought low, and if we have to bend rhetorical truth to achieve that goal the ends justify the means. I am sure if anyone asked them if they have political motives behind their reports they would claim that they are political virgins and that they are chaste seekers of the truth.

The absurd comparison of Gitmo to the Gulag is so over the top that any unbiased study of the two systems would quickly prove that the accusation is laughable. Historians, except for the ideological crusaders, may critique some of the details of Gitmo but none of them will make that Gitmo-Gulag link. By that logic the detention of the Japanese in WWII would also be a gulag. But of course I do not think there will be any Roosevelt-Stalin comparisons will be appearing in the press any time soon.

AI has the right to join any political party that they want to join. But they can’t sleep around and then claim political virginity at the same time.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:41 am 28. Bruce W.:

Jim mc: I think Roger was saying that the conservatives have given the walk to the liberals’talk. Promoting freedom in the darkest corners of the world was a fine slogan to cheer for until the other team actually started doing it.

They feel cheated of their own cause, when they should be glad that some things are finally changing for the better.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:44 am 29. chuck:

By the way,

Haven’t the founders of both AI and Greenpeace abandoned their organizations and now speak out against them? Anyone know? It reminds me in some ways of why labor unions got the communists out: seems they felt the communists were just piggybacking on the unions and not truly concerned with labor issues. IIRC, it was also said that the communists were untrustworthy and given to lying (who woulda thought).

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:55 am 30. Kyda Sylvester:

PeterUK–As a former long time Orange County resident, I was interested to note that CNN’s election map shows the county more pink than red these days (although it did go for Bush by 60%). We have a number of UCIrvine graduates in our family and it’s disappointing that Irvine increasingly has become one of the more illiberal campuses in the system (and that’s saying something). I for one should enjoy the opportunity to explore the lessons of the war in Vietnam in a small group (about 15) and to apply those lessons to the challenges of the modern era with this professor as I doubt we learned the same lessons.

Jun 1, 2005 - 11:55 am 31. Buddy Larsen:

Same lessons, Kyda; different sides tho.

Jun 1, 2005 - 12:18 pm 32. Syl:

Well, seems to me Roger is correct about the fear of their irrelevance. What Bush hath wrought since 9/11 has blasted the manhole covers off the sewers for a peek inside. NGOs, the UN, Arafat, OFF, the MSM, and more, being viewed clearly has its consequences. Not the least of which was Bush’s re-election.

Ouch.

Before 9/11 and Bush (Bush meant little to me before that date) I felt caught up in a swiftly moving and very deep river of societal and cultural changes that even affected the way I thought. I sensed a direction to it, but the destination I didn’t understand.

The feeling of inevitability of these changes ended on 9/11 and Bush’s policies have sealed the deal for me. The dam’s in place. If I, just an ordinary American who wasn’t terribly ideological, felt the flow, then felt its disruption, I can imagine the fear and hatred oozing from those further left. Especially those who know they no longer have control.

Well, we say, they should be loathing the jihadi terrorists instead of Bush and America. Well, being narcissists I swear, they haven’t been able to see beyond the personal impact this situation has on them and them alone.

More anti-Americanism, makes it harder for them abroad. They are constrained in various areas because of America’s military activities. More religion talk simply drives them insane. Their sacred cows are being ridiculed. Louder and louder. And American troops and Australia beat them all to the punch after the tsunami.

Oy.

They’ve become shrill. They scream. If that doesn’t work, they screech louder. It doesn’t matter what they say, they’re enraged and any words will do.

Rope-a-dope. Bush just keeps keepin’ on. Though I’m not one, I’m glad Bush is a religious conservative. It’s driving the left even more insane! Bush is solid. They can’t break him.

I don’t know how long until they totally lose control, lose their minds, or get physically hurt with their new alliances. I wonder if Galloway has a death wish. If there’s going to be a flash point with him. Or if something will figuratively explode at a university in CA.

And they swam and they swam right over the dam!

I just remembered something I saw on BookTV a few years ago. An old, long retired pilot, had written a book on aviation or something. I remember neither author nor book title. But he told a story about hunting/fishing in a valley he had visited many times. He knew the wind currents locally and knew exactly what was coming…

There was a flock of geese flying high across the valley. Nice ordered V shape. The lead goose does most of the work, the one behind less because he rides on the wake? of the one in front, and so on to the end of the two lines. Periodically a goose towards the front will drop back further in line to get a rest. All orderly and predictable.

Anyway these geese were happily flying along…until they hit that wild turbulence that this pilot knew was there.

Squawk!! Honk!! Honk!! Squawk!! and the geese fell tumbling out of the sky, until each was able to recover and start flapping again. Took a while before the V resumed its perfect formation.

Well, the lefties hit that turbulence. Let’s make it very difficult for them to recover, shall we?

Damn. Long winded today.

Jun 1, 2005 - 12:19 pm 33. PeterUK:

Kyda,

I was particularly take by this stunning extrapolation of logic.

“As horrific as is the beheading of an American truck driver in Iraq who was only doing his job and turned the wrong way, this action can be understood in the framework of American unilateralism”.

Presumably by this thesis, Multilateral Infidels would not be butchered,unless of course,some of the Jihadis have skipped anger management counselling.

It is entirely possible that the word unilateral translates in to a dire insult in arabic and should therefore be treated in a sensitive manner,it would never do for the guards at the Guantanamo Detention Centre to be using such unfelicitous language.

A UN committee should be set up to examine why a hitherto obscure and unused word seems to have inflame the sensitivities of so many.

Jun 1, 2005 - 12:40 pm 34. Kyda Sylvester:

Great metaphor, Syl. Agreed; let’s make it as difficult as humanly possible.

Jun 1, 2005 - 12:48 pm 35. Buddy Larsen:

Long wind but a gooood wind. Might add to Syl’s description of the turbulence, that it would be a miracle if the hard-left command echelon, hadn’t seen the pre-OIF world as conforming to all their theories and moving along nicely.

Had UN and Old Europe prevented OIF (or any western invasion of the enemy heartland), as they had every reason to expect it would, well, 911 would still have been a net victory in their camps. As is, the war is the post WWII world-historical political direction change that is the one thing they cannot let stand.

Globalization–meaning the spread of market-economics, and the deepening financial markets world-wide–has twinned with OIF to raise world living standards to a point that cannot be hidden from the formerly easily-controlled proles. It is the left’s other flank being turned.

The insane cacaphony of Bush hatred, too, is the ‘tell’ that they never realized they were showing; the ‘tell’ that proves what they’ve really been all about all along.

Jun 1, 2005 - 12:49 pm 36. Syl:

Buddy…”The insane cacaphony of Bush hatred, too, is the ‘tell’ that they never realized they were showing; the ‘tell’ that proves what they’ve really been all about all along.”

Bingo! The rest too!

Jerry…”Me: Since it is clear that you believe that essential rights are respected in Israel and denied in the Palestinian Territories why do you claim that Israel is one of the most egregious violators of Human rights?

AI: Because we hate Jews [and America] more then we love gays and women.”

Heh.

I actually read a quote or paraphrase of a european leftist when confronted with similar reasoning. Her answer was that first you have to deal with poverty and oppression and racism. When that’s all taken care of, the rest (women’s rights, for example) will work itself out.

Sheesh.

You see, capitalism and individual rights are the problem because they subsume the rights of the special classes. That’s their story and they’re sticking to it. Besides, capitalists like to buy stuff and that is soooo oppressive.

Okay, then, if it’s the classes they worry about then an individual woman’s plight does not concern them. But an individual prisoner’s alleged abuse does? I’m sure they’ve worked out an equally silly answer to that one.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:01 pm 37. Terrye:

Just who the hell do these people think they are? Who made them judge jury and executioner of our foreign policy? This is the kind of crazy talk that drove me right.

So Shulz wants governemnts to arrest our people and try them for war crimes? That is a laugh… on whose authority? and what crimes? I mean if Arafat’s stealing from the Palestians for years is not a crime, what is? If two million girls dying from bllod loss or sepsis due to genital mutilation in African Muslim nations is not a crime what is?

The list goes on. Shulz and the rest of them can just kiss my Okie ass.

The truth is they are doing themselves great damage by comparing Gitmo to the Gulag because it might actually make people wonder just what the Gulag was and that might create a sense of proportion and perspective. And that is the greatest threat to people who can not talk about facts. That silly woman Kahn said the people at Gitmo had no recourse…bullshit. They have the red cross, they have lawyers, they have NGO’s, they have the press, they have George Galloway. Who the hell do the political prisoners in Cuba, North Korea, China and Iran have? Who gives a rat’s ass about them? I bet they wish to God the only torture they had to deal with was a Koran touched by an infidel or a woman in thong underwear tempting their starving asses. silly silly people.

That is why they cling to the notion of outrageous casualty figures in Iraq and why Galloway can call himself a progressive even as he snuggless up to fascists…reality is secondary to their propaganda. They do not live in the real world. They would not know it if it bit them on the ass.

BTW if foreign governments were to hop to it and obey Shulz’s orders that our people be arrested, what makes him think we would not just haul everyone home? We could always shut down the UN and tell the Amnesty people to move their frigging offices to North Korea. Now there is a place they might find more to their liking.

freaking fools.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:13 pm 38. PeterUK:

OT,Looks like the Dutch have painted the other finger purple,thats two finger for the EU. Pity they won’t let Britain vote,we could have made it

Hey,Non Nee No.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:14 pm 39. Buddy Larsen:

Syl, yes, the thing shows clearly in feminism. Empowering individuals–though half of ‘em ARE female–doesn’t count.

“Feminism’s” tepid, eye-rolling ‘oh, please’ reaction to the freeing of the Taliban women (freeing them from among other things execution by bullet, in crowded soccer stadiums, at hubby’s whim, for perceived adulterous-thought crimes) was explained as ‘well, yes, but now, they are mere consumers for greedy capitalists’.

Right, not a whole lot of improvement there, for the Taliban women.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:15 pm 40. chuck:

Syl,

Her answer was that first you have to deal with poverty and oppression and racism.

Standard reply. I recall a SWP fellow on campus, way back when, who, when asked to donate money for something, said no because “when the socialists come to power the problem will no longer exist”. This was a guy from a well off family, of course. I suspect for some folks the “cause” is just an excuse to be selfish.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:16 pm 41. Terrye:

And……. as for unilateralism being this awful thing, I have news for the left. It was not unilateralism that got us in this war. It was not unilateralism that brought war to Iraq.

It was a corrupt and incompetent United Nations and their willingness to make whores of themselves for the sake of making money off of Saddam. If not for their screwing around over there for years and years before Bush ever became the president this whole thing could have been resolved a decade ago.

If the first Bush had just told the socalled coalition to buzz off, he was going to take Saddam out then and there none of this would have happened. If Clinton had gone after the bastard when he killed his sons in law for ratting on his banned weapons program regime this would have been over years ago. But noooooo, we had to play with the UN and make a bad situation worse than it had to be.

freaking fools.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:25 pm 42. Bostonian:

Buddy L., before 9/11, I received multiple emails from activist feminists who called attention to the plight of Afghani women.

Since our removal of the Taliban, I haven’t heard one blessed word from any of these people.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:26 pm 43. Terrye:

And…..as for dealing with poverty first…how can you deal with poverty without dealing with the fact that half the population is illiterate because they are just women? Ignorance breeds poverty, that much is obvious.

The Saudis are not poverty stricken. Billions and billions of dollars have been poured into the Muslim world for years and who shines? The Israelis, and they don’t have oil.

The left are like enablers, buying their worthless brother a six pack to shut him up. Yeah, so he’s a drunk, but he gets mean when he doesn’t get what he wants.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:36 pm 44. Buddy Larsen:

Basically, freedom from hope is the freedom they offer. Makes sense, for the longest, freedom from hope kept things quiet for the Nomenklatura.

Those steadily-climbing alcoholism, suicide and divorce rates, along with the steadily-falling birthrates and life-spans, among the not-allowed-to-leave citizens of the Worker’s Paradise, were a little embarrassing tho.

But it was capitalism’s fault. It was the contrast that was demoralizing the proles. So, right, we da bad guys. And that’s where the greenies come in, the contrasts are explained by capitalism’s raping mother earth. Just raping the hell out of her. Rape, rape rape.

Socialism actually does harm the environment? Yes, but only because capitalism exists, and doesn’t. See?

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:37 pm 45. Buddy Larsen:

Actually, all these people problems wouldn’t exist if there were no people. So, again the left is morally superior, because it has no false-consciouseness sentimentality about the “value” of human life.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:39 pm 46. ShrinkWrapped:

Since Roger asked for a Psychoanalyst to comment, I thought I’d oblige. Part of what Psychoanalysts do is help the person/patient confront those unacceptable desires, thoughts, and feelings that they must remain unaware of. They do this by way of defences, among them rationalization, displacement, projection, etc. AI is closely aligned with much of the MSM in convincing themselves that Bush and the US Military are the greatest dangers to (utopian) peace in the world. This not only allows them to gratify their own narcissism by getting plaudits from like minded opinion makers, but also allows them to feel virtuous in opposing such great evil (and it is safe to oppose the US, something which cannot be said about opposing Islamic fundamentalist fascism). On an even more hidden level, they are able to hide and deny their own terror of the primitive head hunters of Islamofascism, people who would gladly kill them and their friends and allies wihtout a second thought. There are also those who fear losing their power and access, and those who are consciously anti-American. These are complicated structures and if I may humbly suggest, I have written about these things in greater detail on my own blog.

I would also caution us all to be careful of dismissing them as a dying force (which they may be). The MSM, NGO’s, academic left retain a great deal of power, and can cause a great deal of damage. The death of a thousand cuts, by way of the “torture” narrative, may not be able to slay us directly, but it accumulates and eventually destroys.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:47 pm 47. WichitaBoy:

I think a lot of the problem here has to do with what engineers call “dynamic range”, i.e., how big your scale is. Imagine a global scale for good and evil with, say, Hitler/Stalin at one end and Mother Theresa at the other (pick your own entities as appropriate). Now imagine that each person has his or her own “local” scale for good and evil, with say, the time he or she had his or her knuckles rapped by that *evil* 7th grade teacher at one end and–who knows–the time the person got his or her dream job at the other.

The point is that, for many of these people, the personal scales are much too small, in that they have never ever experienced real evil of any sort in their lives. Their experiences are simply too limited. They have nothing to map real evil onto. They cannot actually imagine what it would be like to have teenagers from the government show up with submachine guns and gouge out their eyes with their thumbs after raping their wives. For such people, Bush really is Hitler, in other words, he’s the end of the scale of evil as they know it. Guantanamo really is as bad as it can possibly get, based on their experience of life.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:51 pm 48. Terrye:

shrink:

Which is why they need to be challenged in the open, in the light of day.

I think they were pissed off about the fact that the US military did more good in tsunami ravaged Asia in a month than they could have done in a year.

clip boards and land rovers only get you so far.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:55 pm 49. Terrye:

Wichita Boy:

In other words they know as much about human suffering as Paris Hilton knows about balancing a check book.

At least she does not pretend she is an economist.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:58 pm 50. Buddy Larsen:

Shrink is right. Marginalizing the true-believers is only ‘enough’ if–contrary to the wisdom of the ages–a house-divided CAN stand.

But, to jump back to political expression, GWB stands for so many ‘little guy’ policies that the country-club right is angry. If a centrist like GWB cannot bring the left to a compromise, who can?

But I agree with Shrink that too much of this madness of the part will in the end demoralize the whole. Just dunno what to do about it. Maybe this, talking about it on Roger’s place, is doing some good.

Jun 1, 2005 - 1:58 pm 51. PeterUK:

Shrink Wrapped,

The “liberal left” for want of a better description also seem to have a fascination for murderous despots,they may be terrified by the “primitive headhunters of Islamofascism”,but there also seems a kind of admiration.Having seen several leftists,Galloway and Benn for example fawning on Saddam Hussein,it appears to be a form of schoolgirl crush.What is it that so affects these tribunes of the people?

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:07 pm 52. Kevin P:

Roger:

If anyone ever suggests that we need to join the World Court the actions of AI with their request to put President Bush behind bars is the perfect example of how absurd that notion is.

AI’s and Human Rights watch records have shown that for years Cuba has been one of the leading human rights violaters in the world.Political arrests, inhuman prison conditions, executions after 1 day trials, denial of every human rights that these organizations hold dear.A legal system that is run by the Governmnet with no real legal rights for the accussed. Arrests for artists who have not toed the political line. Has any leader of AI, even though their own files record many gross violations of human rights, ever called for the arrest and prosecution of Castro? Have they called for the arrest and posecution Of Kim from North Korea, where an actual Gulag excists? No, of course not. Some enterprising journalist should ask the noble leader of AI why there seems to be such a double standard. It would be interesting to see them explain away their own reports.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:12 pm 53. Buddy Larsen:

Jeez, Peter, look at Castro-love. Look at Jimmy Carter’s reliable help for the worst dictators. It’s insane, alright. Libs (”liberals!”) just do not want to hear about Castro’s abuses of human BEING’s rights. Nuts! It’s just plain nuts.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:12 pm 54. PeterUK:

Kevin P

“Some enterprising journalist should ask the noble leader of AI why there seems to be such a double standard. It would be interesting to see them explain away their own reports”.

That of course is the nub of the problem,no journalist ever will.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:18 pm 55. The Truth:

Mr. Simon:

AI’s report said that Guantanamo was the “Gulag of our time.” That is a very different thing from saying Guantanamo is identical to a Gulag, the specious claim you are making in this post.

As a discerning reader, I would argue that AI is saying that in the modern world, a world where, thankfully, the cruelty of the Soviet Gulag are extinct — a less barbaric world, if you will — Guantanamo is symbolic of the excesses of a nation ostensibly trying to protect its security. American actions there are all the more reprehensible since, unlike the Soviets, we claim to be a beacon of human rights to the world.

As a writer, you are aware of the different meanings sentence syntax can give to an analogy. You were being deliberately obtuse when writing this post.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:26 pm 56. flenser:

Thats the left we know and loathe; pretentious AND stupid.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:32 pm 57. Morgan:

Mr. Truth:

Ah, so it was exaggeration for comic effect, like saying that the longbow was the nuclear weapon of its time. As a minion of Sardon, I’m usually quicker to pick up.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:33 pm 58. uranari:

Rubbish. Ever been to North Korea? Hundreds of thousands are wasting away in real gulags. Now. Today. Such cruely isn’t extinct. A gulag is a gulag is a gulag. Gulag isn’t some archaic term that can be played with. “Discerning reader,” “The Truth,” to use a French word, my derriere.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:35 pm 59. Rick Ballard:

Shrink,

Very good point about the cumulative negative effect. The Fabians and Gramscians have been busy little termites for 121 years now and the extent of the damage done is considerable. Given that level of endurance it is difficult to see how the descent into madness of one of the multitude of organizations dedicated to the imposition of the serfs collar on all of mankind is a significant event.

I take some comfort from the fact that there now exists a network of media that opposes rather than sustains the illusory utopian future envisioned by those encumbered by a superabundance of empathy unmarked by even a smidgen of common sense. Had the brainless twits disguised as propagandists at AI made this type of stupid error thirty years ago it would have been brushed aside or buried by a sympathetic MSM. Today it is held to the light and justly ridiculed.

The willing collaboration of the Gramscians within old media just doesn’t have the weight necessary to delude a sufficient percentage of the population anymore. There’s no Comrade Uncle Walty to cap off his broadcast with “and that’s the way it is” and be greeted with anything but laughter. Today we have Dan the Dim laughed out of his job for incompetence and now – the inestimable Ms. Khan headed for the same probable fate.

We are not at the end, nor even at the beginning of the end but certainly we are past the end of the beginning.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:38 pm 60. PeterUK:

Truth?

“I would argue that AI is saying that in the modern world, a world where, thankfully, the cruelty of the Soviet Gulag are extinct — a less barbaric world, if you will — Guantanamo is symbolic of the excesses of a nation ostensibly trying to protect its security.”

NO,what they said was the Guantanamo was the “Gulag of our time”,that is perfectly clear on both an implicit and explicit level.

If AI meant otherwise they should have said so.By the way Derrida is dead.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:40 pm 61. Buddy Larsen:

Truth, the word “gulag”, like the word “holocaust”, carry valuable information about the state of mankind.

To fuzz the definitions, whether by screaming or splitting hairs, is to fuzz the thinking. Words organize ideas.

Gitmo as shorthand for failure of a metaphorical beacon to shine to some certain luminescence is to ignore that those detainees will likely kill people if released.

And, not as members of a uniformed army under central command, but rather just ad-hoc and opportunistically. This is their record.

Gitmo is an expression of common-sense, whether or not it dims the beacon of freedom. Take a look at historical wartime exigencies. Lincoln suspended Habias Corpus, and arrested wholesale southern-sympathizing state legislators and media people. The Civil War had some stakes that have made history judge him to have been our greatest president. If he had lost the war on some technicality, where would you be now?

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:41 pm 62. ShrinkWrapped:

PeterUK,

The left has indeed had a longstanding fascination with political violence. I think a good part of their admiration has to do with the fact that most left wing intellectuals have significant issues around dependency and passivity. The core of socialism, after all, is to have an all powerful parent (the state) feed and protect you and make your decisions for you. They end up feeling weak and helpless in their dependency. They wish they could be “men of action” and to them, the most admirable man of action is the revolutionary who uses violence, something they can write about and which they can never do. They are also shamed by their cowardice and weakeness, and in their need to deny thier own weakness, turn it into hatred directed against a weaker other. This has been a traditional source of anti-Semitism and now that the Jews are not accepting their passive victimization, the hatred is externalized onto those whose scruples protect the haters, ie the USA and Israel.

Please note, I am speaking in gross generalities and each member of the left would have their own particular reasons, conscious, and mostly unconscous, for taking the positions they do.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:45 pm 63. chuck:

Who the Hell would have the gall to call themselves “The Truth,” capitalized, no less? Why is it that these someones, convinced of their Superior Understanding of The Truth, sound like sophomoric loons? Geez, throw em a whoopee cushion.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:46 pm 64. Buddy Larsen:

Yeah, why not just call yourself “God”?

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:50 pm 65. PeterUK:

Shrink Wrapped,

Thank you,this was one of the elements that fueled the 19th century Romantic Movement,which in turn was one of the midwives to socialism..Read you site very intersting.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:52 pm 66. Buddy Larsen:

A question (or three), do words have meanings? If so, why? What happens when words do not have meanings?

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:52 pm 67. Fresh Air:

PeterUK–

Obituary headline: Derrida “dies”

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:52 pm 68. flenser:

The worst are full of passionate intensity.

The left appear to revere passionate intensity in and of itself, and see the strength and validity of convictions as residing in the individuals id rather in the ego. Their admiration for those who are willing to die (and also for those who kill), in the name of their convictions, is probably best understood in those terms.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:53 pm 69. Buddy Larsen:

flenser quote Yeats, who warns of a rough beast slouching toward Bethlehem to be born.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:55 pm 70. PeterUK:

Or even Dog.

Jun 1, 2005 - 2:56 pm 71. PeterUK:

Shrink Wrapped,

I presume the issues of dependency and passivity are two of the things that paralyse the left in the face of Islamofascism.Add to that they have a common enemy in the Administration,looks like the West has a real problem on its hands.

Jun 1, 2005 - 3:08 pm 72. Silicon valley Jim:

Who the Hell would have the gall to call themselves “The Truth,” capitalized, no less?

My guess is that it’s Carl “The Truth” Williams, heavyweight contender in the 1980s. Thirty wins (twenty by knock-out), ten losses, including two in championship bouts.

Jun 1, 2005 - 3:12 pm 73. PeterUK:

Flenser,

What do you mean by “dies”? This obviously doesn’t mean the same thing to you as it does (did) to Jacques.

Jun 1, 2005 - 3:12 pm 74. jerry:

Shrinkwrapped:

I assume you are talking about modern leftists. The men [and women] who made the left were full blooded people of action. Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Luxenburg, Hitler and Mussolini were people who could do violence with the best of today’s Islamicists. The left today has degenerated into academic scribblers and upper east side socialites who get their kicks talking the talk but are cowards who cannot walk the walk. The thugs inspired by my rogues list of the left would eat these people alive.

Jun 1, 2005 - 3:27 pm 75. Frederick:

Silicon Valley Jim: “My guess is that it’s Carl ‘The Truth’ Williams, heavyweight contender in the 1980s….”

No. He’s a security guard in New York now, and wouldn’t post something silly like this. Our poster writes in a distinct style, that used by the slightly dim people of the MSE. They generate stuff like “As a discerning reader, I would argue that AI is saying…” What was the Bob Dylan line about the academic world? “… and the locusts sang.”

Jun 1, 2005 - 3:42 pm 76. Kevin P:

Roger;

Absurdity reigns. “The Truth”, and isn’t that moniker the first indication that you are going to be in for a rough ride, claims that accuracy or clarity is no longer needed. Since the Soviet Union is no longer that allows for new definitions of what Gulag means.Of course he is ignoring the fact that AI wanted to convey that what the Bush administration is doing is similar, in a “new” way, to the gulag. other wise why would you use that word. If I say Roger is the new Plato I am obviously intending high praise for him.

Let’s say someone is a witness to the Truth spanking his child. Of course spanking your child is now regarded by many as an outdated and barbaric form of child discipline. Because there is a new take on spanking the truth would have no problem with me saying that The truth is the new child molester of our day. Of course the Truth would sue for libel. And my defense would be that of course, everyone knew that when I called you a child molester I was using the new and improved definition, not the old antiquated one. Of course this logic allows anyone to say anything and then redefine the language to a point where there is no way to understand anyone.

To the Truth- Your post was brilliant, witty and completely accurate. You will need the Kevin P dictionary to understand what I really mean.

Jun 1, 2005 - 4:01 pm 77. Buddy Larsen:

Sorta what Peter meant by “Dog”, I’d guess. I feel sorry for all of us here, stuck in false consciousness, “oppressed” by traditional, historical, agreed-upon, useful, practical, meaningful word-meanings.

Jun 1, 2005 - 4:08 pm 78. PeterUK:

I would argue that discernment is a social construct dependent on the chronological socialisation and environmental situationality of the user.The hegemonic overtones are implicit in its usage, presuming a learned historical accumulation of pre-discovered knowledge inherent in the sociatal environment of the user.Thus confering upon the user an implied expertness of judgemental critical analysis.Which in this case is sod all.

Jun 1, 2005 - 4:20 pm 79. Knucklehead:

Thats the left we know and loathe; pretentious AND stupid.

Now, now, Flenser, can’t we take the Kinder and Gentler (TM) approach…

“The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant: It’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan

Jun 1, 2005 - 4:25 pm 80. John©:

You must remember that William Shultz is a (not so) stealth agent for the anti-Bush forces from the far left–i.e. he comes to AI directly from Norman Lear’s People for the American Way. Norman planted him–thanks to significant contributions (via All in the Family residuals)–at AI to increase his personal control of the meme machine aligned against Bush. One despairing note on the power and legitimacy of AI: my grammar school children were directed by their teachers to write letters and essays in support of AI as part of their assignments in social studies a couple years back. While most–drone-like–emulated their teachers agenda, my children balked at the lock-step leftism and googled AI’s hypocrisy. My daughter did her research and ended up writing a paper on AI as shameless apologists for Castro’s regime and the ‘human rights’ organization’s fascistic support for the jailing, persecution and exile of gays and AIDs victims to Cuban gulags. Expect more anti-Bush reports and equivalence analogies of Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib to German and Soviet death camps…it’s the least Norman can do to convince Americans that the creator of ‘Good Times’ is really a socio-political genius.

Jun 1, 2005 - 4:25 pm 81. thibaud:

My $0.02: it ain’t about values or postmodernism, it’s purely and simply about money. Market share. Sending a message that will resonate above all the noise cluttering the marketplace today.

What Trippi and Kos demonstrated to leftist organizations (and a few lefty pols like Barbie Boxer) is that over-the-top extremism will bring in millions of $$$ in small donations in very short order. These small contributors are not easy to find or reach or persuade. They don’t have lots of money, and many have never contributed a dime to any party or cause.

However, when they hear and see someone giving it to Chimpy Bushitler with both barrels, these people come out in droves – actually, in hundreds of thousands – with their pocketbooks open. Everyone on the left wants their money. Boxer. Pelosi. Howard DNC Chair Dean. And Amnesty and Greenpeace and Emily’s List and Oxfam Friends of the Earth NARAL Sierra Club and MikeyMaroon and Live8 and ….

Lotta competition for lefty wallet share out there. Ratchet up the noise, and the screech, if you want a piece of it.

Jun 1, 2005 - 4:51 pm 82. Buddy Larsen:

Schultz is I believe on the board of Planned Parenthood, too. Planned Parenthood has angered some people with the attitude promulgated to the very young that there are no ‘values’ inherent in sexual behavior.

Jun 1, 2005 - 4:53 pm 83. Fresh Air:

One other thing hit me about this “gulag” business. The gulag as it was known in Soviet Russia enslaved its own people, most of whom were political dissidents. The implication that AI was making is not merely one relativising evil, but one that seeks to contort who we are and what we are doing in the GWOT.

The clear implication is that we are holding large numbers of our own citizens in this so-called gulag, just as they are doing a few miles away under Castro, around the globe in North Korea and in a slew of other totalitarian states.

I am sure there are lots of lefties out there who believe this in the same sense they believed Dan Rather’s evidence about Bush’s National Guard service: fake, perhaps, but accurate.

Yet it simply is not true. I don’t suppose anyone knows the actual number, but there cannot be more than a handful of American citizens at Gitmo. Yet here is Amnesty International offering up its tu quoque ad hominem as if George Bush was Pol Pot or something. It really is a stunning simile on so many levels, and a disturbing window into the madness that is today’s modern left.

BTW, I’m waiting for some prominent liberals to follow the Washington Post’s lead and denounce this crap……. {sound of crickets}

Jun 1, 2005 - 4:55 pm 84. Jamie Irons:

Keven P., Buddy, PeterUK and others:

For hegemons, you guys are damn funny!

Jamie Irons

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:00 pm 85. Buddy Larsen:

Jamie, laugh or cry, those anti-anti-hegemon hegemons leave no middle ground for us mere anti-hegemon hegemons.

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:10 pm 86. Sandy P:

–As a discerning reader, I would argue that AI is saying that in the modern world, a world where, –

Or they just actually meant what they wrote. They knew exactly what they were doing.

No is never no, they’re like children.

I finally had to have my daughter look up the definition of “no.”

She’s 7.

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:13 pm 87. Rick Ballard:

Thibaud,

You make a good point but this could also be the “lamentations of their women” phase”. Sounds more like the shrieking of harpies but it has a losers ring to it.

Fortunately for us, Shiva/Loki can make a slight gesture from the shadows followed by the faintest of whispers and the coffers fill to overflowing within days.

As long as McCain keeps a sock in it. I wonder what Karl has in store for him.

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:15 pm 88. PeterUK:

Amnesty’s criteria for human rights is very intersting,Via Michelle Malkin.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/rivkin_casey200505270804.asp

It might be about money ,but what do they use the money for?

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:25 pm 89. chuck:

Buddy,

Planned Parenthood has gotten too political for me. I use to support them because they provided medical exams and education to folks I knew, many of whom were remarkably ignorant about sex and/or could not afford regular doctors. So it was a good thing overall. Now they are playing the partisan politics game and last fall sold “I had an abortion” tee-shirts near the Democratic convention. Whatever your position on abortion, that is just offensive. I’m sorry, but it looks like another organization turned to shit by the touch of the left. Or maybe we should make that the touch of Norman Lear. I was not surprised to learn that William Shultz was on the board.

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:29 pm 90. Jamie Irons:

Buddy,

All you really require is a narrative, as recounted in an overbearingly self-referential and satisfyingly obscure text, one parsimonious in its reference to the dominant patriarchal memes scattered about the landscape of a jejune and etiolated “West,” a narrative which, in its gesture toward the Oppressed Other, might limn a “space” for the mere anti-hegemon hegemon, who could then come to dominate and oppress again, whenever he encounters, say, some harmless, even pitiable Chomskyite gnawing the bones of an old New York Times “Politics” section…

Jamie Irons (known among friends as “The Tooth”)

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:29 pm 91. PeterUK:

Ah! But what do you mean by all?

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:33 pm 92. chuck:

Jamie,

I am beginning to wonder about your hidden past.

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:41 pm 93. Terrye:

Tonight I was watching Brit Hume and on his Grapevine segment he said that Schulz said that the president was being selective in his memory when he called AI absurd and left leaning because after all the US depended on Amnesty’s reports when we went after Saddam.

I do not know if Bush called Amnesty left leaning or not but it seems to me that this man is being pretty selective himself. After all Amnesty was critical of Saddam for years and said they wanted the world to help the Iraqi people. I guess they thought that if we sent Saddam a certified letter and threatened him with a restraining order if he did not stop putting people in mass graves that he would straighten up.

I would not be surprised if this does not come up at Saddam’s trial. I hope the prosecution does not use any evidence from Amnesty International. I can hear it now from Saddam’s lawyer, “Is this the same Amnesty that called Gitmo a gulag of our times?” I don’t think they realize what they ahve done to their credibility. The world knows what Saddam was. However, that does not mean that a compound with less than 600 prisoners who get regular visits from the Red Cross can be compared to a gulag where millions died hid away from the world. That is the disconnect.

And if Truth thinks this is acceptable why didn’t Amnesty make the comparison to countries where hundreds of thousands die in circimstances that might bear some resemblance to the Soviet death camps? But then again Amnesty International is expending so many resources trying to get Americans tried for war crimes for putting a hood on someone’s head that they can not be bothered with the people being starved and murdered and raped and tortured with real torture all over the freaking world. And they can not be bothered with confronting Islamofascism, a right leaning and rabid fanatical ideology that should be opposite of the beliefs of any self respecting liberal.

But then the whole point to this discussion is that liberals no longer have any self respect.

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:43 pm 94. Jamie Irons:

chuck:

>>>[Jamie] I am beginning to wonder about your hidden past…

Nothing to see here, folks.

Move along.

Jamie Irons

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:55 pm 95. Buddy Larsen:

LOL…Jamie and Peter laughingly lampoon, farcify, and satirize, and come up stuff that once made the young me nod oh so solemnly, burning at the injustice of the Man. For a semester or two, anyway. Those jazz marlboros help one decipher the prose style. As to what the perfessors who write it are on, ach, ya got me. Mein Kampf, maybe?

Jun 1, 2005 - 5:58 pm 96. PeterUK:

Buddy,

MeinKampf Lite with the new charcoal filter.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:01 pm 97. Jamie Irons:

Buddy,

If you keep up these kind words Ah’m gonna invite y’all, as we used to say in Tejas, to come on over to the spread an’ set a spell on the hedge Ah’m on…

Jamie Irons

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:03 pm 98. Buddy Larsen:

Well, hell, no way to topiary that, for sure.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:06 pm 99. PeterUK:

Can anyone be privet to these puns?

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:07 pm 100. Buddy Larsen:

(*groan*)

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:08 pm 101. Rick Ballard:

Simply a mazing.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:25 pm 102. Jamie Irons:

Looks like we’ve driven everyone away, even the trolls…

Jamie Irons

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:26 pm 103. Jamie Irons:

Oh, sorry, Rick, you came in just as I was writing.

I should say “writing.”

If we keep this sort of nonsense up, Roger’s going to have to set up a Paypal “hedge fund,” because his advertizers will desert him in droves.

Jamie Irons

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:29 pm 104. Rick Ballard:

Not everyone is prepared to jump into the thicket of it.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:30 pm 105. c:

A dogwood.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:33 pm 106. Morgan:

You guys should get your own blog.

Insta punned it.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:35 pm 107. Jamie Irons:

I should perhaps direct this query to PeterUK, but I’ve long wanted to know, if a couple of guys get into a fight in a shrubbery, does the latter then automatically qualify as a “hedgerow”?

Jamie Irons

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:35 pm 108. Jamie Irons:

OK, I’ll behave now…

Jamie Irons

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:36 pm 109. Buddy Larsen:

Sail over and ask him, Jamie–take the clipper.

(ok, me too, I’m done…maybe)

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:41 pm 110. Rick Ballard:

Only if they’re hedgehogs.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:42 pm 111. PeterUK:

Jamie,

I thicket might.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:43 pm 112. Bostonian:

Terrye nailed it.

I am averting my eyes from all the punning. Really, guys.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:45 pm 113. Rick Ballard:

OK – no mas.

Roger needs to post on OFF. Morale is slipping at the UN and they need a good flogging to lift spirits there.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:46 pm 114. Kyda Sylvester:

You guys are out of your gourds and making aster yourselves.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:47 pm 115. Jamie Irons:

Buddy,

I think we two, as right-thinking hegemons, should take a pledge never to descend again on Roger’s blog into this kind of silliness, at least not unless it’s the end of a really long and hard day at work, like today in my case.

Or unless there’s some other like, totally compelling and valid excuse, and all.

Even then we shouldn’t do it.

Hardly ever.

Jamie Irons

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:47 pm 116. c:

Right, everybody should get back on topic about how AI wants to cut Bush down to size

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:50 pm 117. Jamie Irons:

Rick,

What’s OFF?

Jamie Irons

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:51 pm 118. Rick Ballard:

Oil For Food

Roger has a new post up.

Jun 1, 2005 - 6:53 pm 119. Jim C.:

The psychological explanations are interesting, but I’m skeptical of them. You probably remember a few months ago two psychologists from Berkeley (?) analyzed conservatives and decided they all had psychological problems. That was rejected on the right, so I can’t unquestioningly accept similar arguments about the left.

I am utterly bewildered by the extremity of the left’s reactions. I could believe the psychological explanation applies to the leftist man-on-the-street, but how do you explain it in the top leftists like Al Gore or Ted Kennedy? Whatever else you say about them, they are very smart. I find it almost impossible to believe they are so un-self-aware to allow themselves to fall into a psychological dysfunction. The only alternative I can think of is that they’re doing this deliberately, simply cynically whipping people up and trying to cripple the US for political advantage. But as little as I think of them, I simply can’t believe they would do such a despicable thing.

Here’s some utterly paranoid speculation. You know the psychological theory of basic training: break the recruits down, then build them up. The top leftists are deliberately colluding to cause the left to fight in desparation, violating their basic (stated) principles of truth and justice. When this fails, this will drive the left into utter despair and break them. Then Hillary will be presented as a candidate and the left will seize on her like a drowning man seizes a life ring. She will be the savior of the Democratic Party AND the US AND the world, and she’ll be a shoo-in as the next president.

What’s the goal? Cui bono? Follow the money, or rather, the power?

Jun 1, 2005 - 7:09 pm 120. PeterUK:

bers of Congress by domestic advocacy groups. This is obvious from the reportís three fundamental measures of a good human-rights record, which are applied to every included state: (1) whether the death penalty has been retained; (2) whether the International Criminal Court treaty has been ratified; and (3) whether the U.N. Womenís Convention, and its Optional Protocol, has been ratified. All of these crite

It can bbe seen by the critera demanding a sigatory to the International Criminal court that is a political matter

Jun 1, 2005 - 7:12 pm 121. richard mcenroe:

Buddy Larsen ó The margins in this country all have water on them. We’ve got’em backed up to the surfline; we just have to push a little harder.

And can anyone tell me the difference between Amnesty International’s fundraising hyperbole and Oral Roberts telling his followers they have to pony up or God will kill him?

Jun 1, 2005 - 7:27 pm 122. c:

Richard,

The difference is that such hyperbole in the international arena will be used to jazz up a few more jihadists who will go after our troops and others. You’re right- the hype and money are similar, but there likely will be blood splattered on some of the checks that AI will get.

Jun 1, 2005 - 7:44 pm 123. Buddy Larsen:

Richard, if you think Oral Roberts is hard to listen to, you should hear his brother Anal.

Jun 1, 2005 - 7:51 pm 124. Kevin P:

Roger:

I enjoyed the pun-athon. I agree with the idea that we should stay away from physchanalysis.The idea’s are so stupid that we should direct ourselves to tearing their thoughts apart rather then explaining the origins of their moronic theories. Of course this is just another example of my hegomonic tendencies.

One tiny correction. Someone mentioned that Stalin’s Gulag was primarily for his political enemies. This is correct but it needs to be expanded. Stalins paranoia made virtually anyone a candidate for the political enemies list. Many of the victims shot in the bowels of Moscow prisons and who died in the meatgrinder of the gulag were enthusiatic supporters of Stalin and had no intention of trying to unseat him.Many died pleading to their guards to just call Stalin because they believed that if Stalin only knew this was happening the tragic mistake would corrected. District leaders were given specific numbers of wreckers to round up and their view of Stalin was not important because they had a quota to fill. Stalins famous statement that the Soviet Union did not have prisoners of war but only had traitors to the state meant that anyone who was captured by the Nazi’s and survived had the good fortune to recieve a tenner in the gulag for their service to the State.

There is so much more but even the tiny amount of facts that I have listed makes AI staements even more retarded. Yes, there could be some innocent people in Gitmo.But the majority of the 500 prisoners who are there were members of the Taliban or Al Queda and they were non uniformed soldiers fighting for a Islamo fascist organization and should not recieve the rewards of the Geneva convention because the way they fought the war and would have continued to fight the war would not qualify them to the benifits accorded a state combatant as defined in the Geneva convention. The one thing that the MSM never brings up is that the Geneva convention does give specific requirements on who is a real POW. These gents do not qualify.

Jun 1, 2005 - 7:56 pm 125. Buddy Larsen:

Capitalism, a short interregnum between the old kings and the new ones, eh?

Jun 1, 2005 - 8:55 pm 126. someone:

Gulag for idiots, an excellent post the ‘Truth’ moron ought to read. Though perhaps it’s this that needs more publicity.

Jun 1, 2005 - 9:04 pm 127. jerry:

Chuck:

Planned Parenthood has never been simply a health and education organization. Margaret Sanger was a Nazi sympathizer. She invited prominent Nazi eugenics proponents to write articles for her magazine. Today, Planned Parenthood is countries largest abortion provider. They make millions from abortion services.

Jun 2, 2005 - 5:19 am 128. Snippet:

Amnesty International, and virtually all groups that aspire to international influence have a natural and understandable tendency to resent those whose influence exceeds their own.

There are many groups, people, movements, etc… that kill, torture and intimidate on a scale that dwarfs the Quantanamo/Bagram/Abu Graib atrocities.

But those groups are not in Amnesty International’s way. They don’t steal the spotlight. They are not perceived by Amnesty International to be a threat to its mission, so they don’t irritate Amnesty International the way America does. Amnesty is simply trying to use hyperbole to knock the Giant down a few pegs.

Also, Amnesty International and like-minded groups believe that America is the primary reason that their vision of a peaceful world has not yet been successfully applied. This was even believed during the Cold War, when the Soviet Union was regularly perceived as responding to American provocation.

The burden of Hegemony.

Jun 2, 2005 - 10:56 am 129. Buddy Larsen:

Snippet, well put. The problem they always run into is in the delivery of the necessities of life to the populations. The political idea might sound pretty, but it precludes market economics, and thus must price thru bureaucracies, and so cannot compete with capitalism’s dynamism. That’s where the green/left comes in, to immoralize consumption, and neutralize–in theoretics–the economic problem.

Jun 2, 2005 - 11:50 am 130. Buddy Larsen:

But of course, the masses may other ideas about life, so the Utopians have always had, and always will have, the secret-police and the star chamber.

Jun 2, 2005 - 11:52 am 131. PeterUK:

Amnisty and political bias via LGF http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050602-120456-1031r.htm

Jun 2, 2005 - 12:19 pm

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