222 Comments

1. Luther McLeod:

Roger

You put it together so well. And though I have nothing particularly intelligent to say, I have to say something. This whole situation has become so ludicrous it is beyond my understanding and comprehension.

The AI report, the ‘piss’ koran report, the arianna report, the McGovern report that someone linked to below (and, shame, I voted for the man), and much else too numerous to relate. To my feeble mind, all of these individuals aided in the murder of Samir Kassir. They give hope to the terrorist bastards that would kill us all. What the hell are these people thinking?

Do they give no thought to the FACT that if America was not America, most of them would be in the gulag, in the camps or dead. Who in the world has sacrificed more for the cause of freedom than the US, the UK, the Aussies? Who do the oppressed look too for help in their dire situations? Where do the world’s emigrants want to move to? When you are shipwrecked, in your leaky little dingy and see a flag on the horizon, who’s flag will give you the most hope.

I know I’m saying nothing new nor significant here, I’m just getting so tired of the crap from the ‘other side.’ Sorry for the rant.

Jun 3, 2005 - 9:16 pm 2. Kyda Sylvester:

I don’t spend much time at liberal web sites, but in my experience topics such as this don’t get much play. And when they do, the discussion generally spins from the opposite direction: It’s not about Lebanon. It’s about Guantanamo.

The Southern Command report on Koran incidents is here (pdf). Mark Follman at Salon says But the classic White House tactic of burying the bad news just ahead of the weekend isn’t going to erase the fact, increasingly clear, that the allegations of abuse at Gitmo aren’t about one poorly sourced story, or the compromise of journalistic integrity. They are about compromised integrity of a different, and far graver kind.

Jun 3, 2005 - 9:28 pm 3. Wallace:

As Charles Krauthammer so ably points out, where was the media’s outrage at the “mishandling” of the Crucifix when immersed in urine. To them this was art.

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:03 pm 4. David Thomson:

ìI wish our own liberals would understand that.î

I wish that I might find a billion dollars in my back yard. I also wish that I had Michael Jordanís athletic talent and Pavarottiís voice. Sigh, the odds that my wishes might come true could be higher than waiting around for our utopian Liberals to wake up to reality. Moreover, what about violent acts? How can we forget the Weatherman of the 1960s? Todayís crazies may murder people and explode bombs, on a more regular basis, in the not too distant future.

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:24 pm 5. thibaud:

Are they just taking the piss, as PeterUK might say? ie just sh*ttin’ us?

Seriously, we’re reaching the point of parallel media universes when the pisskoran story is held to be more significant than the murder of a Lebanese journalist by Syrian goons.

I emailed the new Times ombudsman with the results of a quick search of the NYT’s archives for articles whose summaries included “abu ghraib” since Mar 1 2003. Result: 338, of which 16 concerned Saddam’s atrocities and 323 concerned US violations. For comparison’s sake, another search for articles whose summaries contained “zarqawi” turned up 19 articles in the same period.

AbuG:Zarqawi = 323:19.

Yep. That’s right, Abu Ghraib is 16 times more important than the fascist enemy’s leader, Al Qaeda’s de facto chief operating officer.

I know, I know: AbuG’s easier to cover. Send your guy over to Arlington for the press briefing, scare up a lawyer fresh from Gitmo, report on every leak and twist and turn in the investigation. But 16 times more articles than on Zarqawi?!

By this logic, the WWII Allies’ 1943 execution of a few hundred SS soldiers in North Africa, or the Red Army’s rapes of 1m+ German women, would have taken up 16x the ink and space as articles on Rommel and the German general staff?

This has gone far, far beyond good faith reporting on a human rights issue. We’re back in Howell Raines, “flood the zone” territory, under which Augusta National is another My Lai, and Gitmo another Auschwitz.

Bill Keller is a smart guy, a lot smarter than Raines. This obscene obsession can only be explained by pressure from the suits at the Times. Flood the zone, and cater to your core, Bill. Reader loyalty– that’s the metric that matters. Win back those lefty cynics. Show ‘em you’re not in Bush’s pocket. All AbuG, All the Time: better than the OJ trial.

Jun 4, 2005 - 1:40 am 6. marc:

Do a Google search using mosque bombings and you will find hundreds of articles on mosque bombings around the world – by Muslims.

Now, how many copies of their “my book is holier than thou’s” were blown up – by Muslims.

http://ussneverdock.blogspot.com/2005/06/islam-gitmo-grovel-enough-already.html

Here is a good round up of crimes against Christians – by Muslims.

http://ussneverdock.blogspot.com/2005/05/islam-muslim-crimes-against-christians.html

The next time some liberal or Muslim gets on his soap box, point these out to them.

Jun 4, 2005 - 2:30 am 7. thibaud:

We’re talking GULAG, man. Dude’s another Stalin. He’s a HitlerStalin and a half. The people have had it with ChimpyBusHitlerStalinGULAGmaster. It’s a tipping point, I’m tellin’ ya.

Al Jazeera’s got an inside scoop on how the White House transported Bush’s piss in a special vial on a CIA charter all the way to Gitmo just so ChimpyGulag-khozyain could personally piss on the most holy Q’u'r’a'n.

And the Times reports that Tom DeLay’s running an internet piss-hunting site that lets Cheney and ohter Halliburton execs remotely piss on the Q’u'r’a'n with a click of a mouse.

/flight from sanity

Jun 4, 2005 - 2:37 am 8. Terrye:

The world has gone mad.

I agree with Charles Krauthammer.

Don’t let them have the Koran. If it is not there no one can accidentally or on purpose dribble pee on it.

Now if one of the inmates wants to jack off and throw the results in the face of a female guard that is ok. After all the bad Americans should not have the bad females there to tempt the saintly terrorists who want nothing more than your blood. That is all, just murder and mayhem. Now is that so much to ask?

The Muslims of the world have to get used to this kind of thing. After all Jews have to get used to their religion being defiled. Christians had to over look urine in the holy water at the Church of the Nativity and Buddhists had to completely ignore the destruction of their ancient symbols in Afghanistan. Why do Muslims think their religion deserves more respect than others, especially when it seems its brings nothing but blood and despair?

Call me un PC, but when a journalist of this stature can be murdered in the open and Linda Foley does not feel the need to shoot off her mouth while at the same time the press seems oddly obsessed with kick the koran stories….I am flabbergasted.

What is wrong with these people?

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:27 am 9. Terrye:

BTW, how do we know these things even happened? Who cares? Who keeps track of people touching the Koran without gloves or accidentally dropping a Koran or dribbling or whatver..why is this even a subject for discussion in our miitary?

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:29 am 10. Buddy Larsen:

Let us be as sensitive to ourselves. A copy of a book is a mass-produced consumer object to us. Let us keep in mind the reason why we have a ‘Gitmo” to begin with. If those birds don’t want us to touch their book, then they COULD quit mass-murdering innocents all over the globe.

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:41 am 11. Terrye:

Buddy:

I think I will go to Amazon and check out what a used copy of the Koran is going for. If I order one, I might just put up an alter to the victims of 9/11 and sacrifice my copy of the Koran on said alter.

seems fitting.

If some idiot can put a crucifix in a bottle of his own urine and call it art, why can’t I express myself?

I want to see all the irreligious people out there consumed with anger over Christmas carols being sung at Christmas to step forward and say the Koran is just another holy book and deserves no more respect than other books like the bible.

come on guys, I dare you.

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:53 am 12. bill:

How many Qu’rans do you desecrate when a Muslim suicide bomber blows up a mosque? Do you get extra points for each Muslim killed in the blast? Two points if they were carrying their Qu’ran?

Just asking.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:17 am 13. Buddy Larsen:

Here, Terry, Scrappleface is on the same beam.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:25 am 14. ShrinkWrapped:

Terrye asked, “What is wrong with these people?”

First of all, they are not “liberals”. Maybe many of them used to be liberals, but the left has been, and remains, intensely illiberal.

When I meet a new patient, I purposely take a position of trusting naivity; in other words, I will accept the patient’s excuses and explanations, as well as their view of thier reality, until I am able to see and point out in a useful way the contradictions that cause them to question their own certainties. I have an advantage when it comes to patients because they come to me unhappy and want to change; despite that, true change is extraordinarily difficult to achieve.

The left wing in the West has held onto a Utopian vision of the world as it should be (if only they are listened to) in which they are the virtuous ones and those of us who insist reality does not comform to their fantasied, wished for, world are the cruel and evil ones; they are miserable at their growing irrelevance but not yet unhappy enough to question themselves. To now question their own views brings into question their history of enabling and supporting monsters (Stalin, Mao,Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, Khomeini, Hussein, et al) which would be worse than crushing to their sense of their own virtue. It is better, from their point of view, to make an equivalence between abu Graib and the Gulag, between mishandling a Koran and murdering innocents (actually, apparently, abu Graib and Koran flushing are far worse than mass murder by Saddam Hussein or the “insurgents” since the New York Times, the holy book of the left, has written many orders of magnitude more words about our abuses than the mass graves and the innocents killed by Saddam or Zarqawi). I am afraid that their own emotional need to maintain the image of themselves as better than us “fascists” will make it impossible for them to ever question themselves, which is the prerequisite for change. They are left with no choice but to beleive, despite all evidence to the contrary, that Bush lied, Americans are stupid and misled, and that the evil United States war machine must be stopped for the good of the entire world. Inevitably, this will lead them to oppose our country with all the means at thier disposal. If the New York Times has to write a thousand more abuse stories, it will; if the ACLU has to file hundreds more nuisance, nonsense suits, it will; eventually, the logic of their position dictates that some on the left will resort to violence (I know some have already, but expect it to ratchet up in the future, especially if the Dems lose ground in the 2006 elections.)

They will protest all day long about how patriotic they are and how concerned they are that our country do right, but in effect, in deed, and for too many, in fact, they are anti-American to the core.

Sadly, the more successful they are at undermining our efforts in Iraq, the more likely true disaster becomes.

PS Wretchard has added a fourth conjecture to his three; worth a read.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:56 am 15. Rick Ballard:

I think I’ll leave defiling other religions symbols to Muslims. They appear to have a definitive edge in expertise in the matter. Now, if someone wants to start a lottery for a chance to relieve yourself on a MSM journalist I’d be very interested in purchasing a ticket. The only problem with the latter is that no one could ever tell that the event had occurred.

With Woodward & Bernstein revealed as sock puppets manipulated by an FBI agent who had no respect for his oath as an agent or the law he was sworn to uphold, we see the hallowed “investigative journalist” fully revealed. Buzzards screeching for half rotted meat from any contaminated source with an agenda, to be partially digested and excreted onto the pages of the WaPo and NYT when it fits their editor’s template. Those pimping the A G/Gitmo story have even less integrity (as if that were possible) than Woodward & Bernstein. All the “research” involves in the koran story is pecking through government investigative reports like sparrows on horse droppings and then printing anything they believe to be inflammatory.

Do your part in the war effort – cancel a subscription today.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:01 am 16. Buddy Larsen:

Excellent posts. Might add to Shrink’s that the anti-Americanism of which he speaks–which would be questioned from the left with, “So, YOU get to say what ‘America’ is?”–is the violation of the core “will of the people” principle. As in, “Sure, the will of the people has put the three branches of gov’t in republican hands, but that’s merely because the people are stupid.”

It never hurts to remind that the will of the people is Constitutionally codified on the political basis (electoral college, etcetera), and not on some sort of litmus or IQ qualifying-formula.

The Constitution DOES define America. Extra-Constitutionally “improving” the legal and traditional definition of America is ipso-facto an anti-actual-American activity.

When I say extra-Constitutionally, I’m getting at the running of the ‘permanent campaign’ via automatically blocking–successfully or not–all presidential initiatives.

Even winning a just and legal war wherein the future of the nation, the people, and the generations yet unborn (which we were when earlier Americans sacrificed for us) are at stake.

IOW, so Amerca is stupid, fine, whatever, but that’s entirely beside the point of order. The point of order is that the recent permutations of left/liberal political behavior are in objective fact anti, or un, American.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:44 am 17. PeterUK:

The Koran abuse issue is a propaganda coup for the Islamists,they have forced the US government to accept the Islamists own valuation of themselves.They took advantage of the current PC climate to paint a highly devout ,almost monk like,picture of themselves.The MSM for reasons of their own have accepted this gratefully and use it to beat the Administration wirh. But why is this being accepted,there is ample evidence that the Islamists have the same weaknesses of the flesh,if not more than any other faith,anyone living in a country with a substantial Muslim population is aware of this.

The claims of sexual provocation are hilarious,they blow themselves up the get that.The young British boys will have gone to school with teenage girls who contrive to wear as little as possible,there are sexual images everywhere even in Luton,did none of them go into a Newspaper Shop?

This is an enormous con aided and abetted by the left for political reasons.

One thing that is intriguing where were the Korans printed and who personally handed them out.Why did the Islamists accept Government issue Korans?

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:46 am 18. Roxanne -:

It’s not about Guantanamo. It’s about Lebanon.

Can’t it be about both?

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:54 am 19. Buddy Larsen:

The Founders–flesh & blood only a few generations back–tried very hard to design for a ’strong-executive’ in foreign policy. The left is trying to undo the election, and in the undoing, insulting the efforts of those who madly, crazily, hopelessly, took on the King George and his superpower military, and at great loss, and at the risk of everything they had (including life), created what is now so frivolously pissed away by the blinded American left.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:56 am 20. Buddy Larsen:

Roxanne, what weighs more, an ounce of feathers or a ton of lead?

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:59 am 21. Syl:

I’m so sick and tired of the rants about corporatization of the media. Always mentioned in conjunction with Murdoch, of course.

It’s not corporatization, it’s monopoly. And the monopoly is the NYTimes. Every day editors from the major networks and papers all across the country get their news from the NYTimes and either use the stories as the basis for their talking points ala Katie and Dan or reprint them word for word in their own publications.

And now the FEC is attempting to shut down the voices that can compete with that monopoly.

McCain should be tarred and feathered and run out of office.

And the Democrats’ ‘Take Back America’ campaign? Do they think we’re idiots? ‘Take Back America to the Policies that Brought us 9/11′ is more like it.

The Iraqi’s are worried America will pull out too soon! We have a habit of doing idiotic things like that. Remember Vietnam? The NY Times does and wants it again. Luckily there are more of us now to see through their idiocy, their joy of being reminded by Feld how they took down a president once and they hope to do it again.

But Times They Are A Changin’ and the more the Times puffs itself up, the harder they’ll fall when their dreams don’t come true.

I don’t think I’m the only American who is sick to death of all the whining and complaining and obstruction and wringing of hands. Americans by nature are practical and have common sense. They want to win and get it over with it and dislike crybabies that can’t see beyond themselves.

As an American who wants to win this war, knows it’s not easy, and is willing to pay whatever it takes, I say to the New York Times:

Sit on it, assholes.

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:12 am 22. mrp:

OT-

The Fallaci trial has been set for June 12. Ms. Fallaci has apparently made it known that she will not attend.

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:10 am 23. Jamie Irons:

US: Urine splashed on Koran

Pentagon confirms report of intentional desecration and accidental incidents at Guantanamo Bay prison. [NYTimes]

The above is from the front page of today’s SF Chronicle web version, SF Gate.

I kid you not.

Below I quote the article verbatim, after one clicks the link to read the whole thing. Every word is from the NY Times story:

No, on second thought I don’t have the heart to quote this absurd article, but what it does say is that the implication or suggestion on the SF Gate front-page snippet that guards had deliberately urinated on the Q’u'r’a'n’ is not the case.

Austin Bay has a rather nice and fair-minded take on the whole silly affair.

Jamie Irons

P.S. At the top of today’s SF Gate front page, there is an article on Saddam’s Plunging Morale, below which is this snippet:

Optimism of the fallen Iraqi dictator wavers as the reality of war crime charges against him sinks in…

Again, I kid you not.

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:41 am 24. Jamie Irons:

Readers, please forgive me.

In my fury above I made a mistake.

My sensitivity momentarily failed me, and I forget to write correctly:

t’h'e h’o'l’y Q’u'r’a'n’

Jamie Irons

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:45 am 25. Jamie Irons:

Of course I meant to say “forgot to write…”

I am so angry right now I can hardly see straight.

Jamie Irons

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:47 am 26. David Thomson:

ì(I know some have already, but expect it to ratchet up in the future, especially if the Dems lose ground in the 2006 elections.)î

Weatherman style violence may escalate much sooner than that. President Bush should be successful in getting approved many of his judicial appointments—including even a few in the Supreme Court. This may be sufficient to nudge a number of utopian Liberals toward a more violent frame of mind.

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:52 am 27. Buddy Larsen:

“A thoughtful Lucifer, cast down from Heaven merely for having created “Evil”, ponders his drastic, no-appeal sentence.”

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:54 am 28. Jamie Irons:

Buddy:

You put me in mind of the first part of Paradise Lost.

Jamie Irons

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:06 am 29. dougf:

“This may be sufficient to nudge a number of utopian Liberals toward a more violent frame of mind.”—-DT

At this point,the ‘progressive left’ is mad(not angry,but MAD .)Might I propose that IF the left cannot get its collective head out of its collective a**.might it not be better in the long-run for it to go totally off the rails? Should they make the serious historical mistake of indulging a ” more violent frame of mind”,would this not finish them as any sort of relevant force?

And on a related note,would it not be better that they are,in fact, finished off sooner rather than later?

Just asking—-

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:10 am 30. Buddy Larsen:

Jamie, depending on the political breaks, you may be in the first part of a paradise lost.

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:12 am 31. Jamie Irons:

Buddy,

Are you that pessimistic?

Perhaps I am not understanding you.

Jamie Irons

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:16 am 32. Buddy Larsen:

I don’t think so, Doug…I think the urban riots of the 60s raised consciousness about the bad results to the rioters. Of course, the LA/Rodney King riot was much later. I don’t know. But the so-called ELF is mainly a collection of arsonists, arson is a skulker’s crime–not confrontational.

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:21 am 33. Buddy Larsen:

Oh, no, Jamie–not pessimistic at all. I was trying to contrast your SFGate article, its sympathy for Saddam. The ‘may BE in the first part of PL’ was just glib, as if we don’t all know that eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, etcetera.

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:26 am 34. Jamie Irons:

Buddy,

Thanks for the clarification.

My late father-in-law, Harry, told me once about an incident when he was stationed in China during WWII (they wouldn’t send him to Germany as he was a Jew), when the commanding officer had signs placed in every prominent location:

THERE WILL BE NO LOW MORALE ON THIS POST

So I was just checking.

Jamie Irons

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:33 am 35. Mark_Belt:

A death that hastens a liberal victory:

The terms liberal and conservative cannot be extrapolated to another political system. Do you remember when the Soviet Union was in its death throes and the MSM described the old hard-line Marxists as “conservative” while describing the reformers, some of whom had been inspired by Ronald Reagan, as “liberal”?

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:39 am 36. neo-neocon:

As I went to my computer today, and my home page came up (Yahoo news), and I saw that the lead story (AP, naturally) was headlined, “U.S.: Gitmo Quran Was Splashed With Urine,” I felt (and still feel) the strangest combination of weariness and anger.

I have become convinced that these stories will continue until the MSM gets what it wants. What it wants is the election of Democrats. What it may get is the undermining of Western civilization and the tradition of the Enlightenment, I kid you not.

Sorry to be so gloomy, but this story crossed some line I didn’t even know existed, with its absurd and self-destructive digging up and flaunting and trumpeting of anything–anything–that could get the US, Bush, and the military in trouple. Next it will be dust: “two US military personnel let dust blow on the Koran at Gitmo,” and thought crime, “Five Guantanamo guards lusted in their hearts about defecating on the Koran.” Lost in the whole thing (of course!) is the fact that these prisoners are given Korans in the first place

The Islamofascists can cut back on their budget for propaganda. The US press is doing the job far better than they ever could.

.

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:45 am 37. Rick Ballard:

Jamie,

There’s no reason for anyone to be pessimistic at all. Well, except for lefty/libs, but they were born on a rainy day anyway.

I’m quite cheered to see your posts this morning. You’re definitely not a crusty con and to read your forceful expression of the disdain for the press that I have felt for over thirty years really put a smile on my face.

The MSM and their ilk are in the same position that Kerry was two weeks after his convention. Bewildered, befuddled and convinced that turning up the volume will change peoples minds. They are on a slightly different trajectory so the impact point is a pit farther away than Kerry’s was but they’re picking up velocity very nicely and the crater should be an awesome sight.

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:45 am 38. Rick Ballard:

Boy, I’ve gone dyslexic on b’s and p’s. Stupid Preeviw.

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:56 am 39. Old Dad:

I think we may be reacting to the MSM echo chamber, a pretty small place after all. Sure, there’s a boat load of crap being fousted, but my guess is that most Americans aren’t terribly concerned.

I’m just speculating here on this gorgeous Saturday morning, but let’s day dream for a second. Imagine that you’re at your local diner or watering hole. There are four old boys at a table nursing their coffee or their Buds. You walk up and ask them wether or not they’ve heard the latest about Gitmo.

“Gitmo,” one says, “that’s where we keep the terrorists, right?”

“Alleged terorists,” you respond.

Eye brows raise at the table. They look at you like you are a child or an idiot.

You tell them that the New York Times is in a huff because a guard went outside a cell block to take a leak, and when he came back one of the “alleged” terrorists was in a tizzy because supposedly the wind blew a couple drops back through a vent that supposedly fell on the prisoner’s holy book.

The oldest of the gentlemen looks at you, now completely convinced that you are an idiot, and says, “Screw’em, son.”

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:12 am 40. PeterUK:

“Do not fear the enemy, for your enemy can only take your life. It is far better that you fear the media for they will steal your honor.” – Bobby McBride, Crew Chief, 128th Assault Helicopter Company, RVN 1969-1970 via Black Five

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:15 am 41. Morgan:

Old Dad:

But isn’t the point of the incessany insistance that we be sensitive to anyone who is “on the list” to ensure that we are quick to accept impossibly high (and often absurd) standards for our behavior, thereby providing ammunition to provoke guilt for the most minor indiscretions?

To the extent that the PC, multi-culti folks have succeeded in indoctrinating people, they will accept this as an important and shameful act.

Your good old boys just aren’t in the sensitivity-trained mainstream.

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:32 am 42. David Thomson:

ìShould they make the serious historical mistake of indulging a ” more violent frame of mind”,would this not finish them as any sort of relevant force?î

The utopian Liberals donít see the world the same way that you and I do. They instead perceive the Bush administration as successfully pulling off a con job on the American public. Noam Chomskyís ìmanufacturing consentî theme underpins their conspiratorial attitude. Armageddon is fast approaching and there is little time to turn things around. Desperate people often do desperate things—and these clowns are increasingly getting very desperate! Please understand that only a small handful of these folks will ever turn violent. Still, even .0001% of them can cause a lot of damage. The Weathermen of the 1960s probably never numbered over 200 individuals.

John Kerry apparently is trying to get President Bush impeached for allegedly lying to the American people about the true facts of Saddam’s threat to our nation. In other words, the Massachusetts senator is more than hinting that our current elected leader is something of a war criminal. There are far too many so-called mainstream politicians and media figures uttering similar idiotic nonsense. These rants add fuel to the fire.

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:36 am 43. Syl:

Old Dad

Thank you thank you thank you.

The MSM is itself pissing in the wind.

Here’s to the real mainstream America who simply roll their eyes.

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:39 am 44. Skookumchuk:

Remember also that Saddam’s trial is coming up, a trial where evidence of massive atrocities over decades will be in the news for weeks and months. In preparation for this unpleasantness, the MSM has to take the US down a peg or three.

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:42 am 45. Old Dad:

Morgan,

It’s true that my crowd isn’t very sensitive or PC, but we’re very multi-culti. My gang can swear in several languages.

I wonder how successful the PC priests have really been? How many of us truly see even a remote moral equivalence between a little accidental splatter on the Quran and killing a few thousand innocents?

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:44 am 46. Old Dad:

Syl,

You’re welcome. Let’s stay upwind.

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:47 am 47. someone:

Terrye: don’t pay for that Koran, get a free one from CAIR. Two birds, one stone.

neo-neocon: I had the same reaction, but in an even more pessimistic key. Have we lost? Is the country this stupid? Even if the populace isn’t, Bush seems deeply tangled in the nonsense himself.

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:54 am 48. Morgan:

Old Dad:

You really need more lessons in multi-culturalism. First, swearing in another language is only acceptably multicultural if you insist that the other culture has better curse words than English. Also, that has to be a result of their culture being better than yours. Also, you have to curse the US, Israel, or capitalism.

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:58 am 49. someone:

Is Gitmo optimally arranged to extract intelligence from the enemy combatants we have there? If not, why not? How many of us have to die before it is?

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:59 am 50. PeterUK:

The doctrine of Political Correctness is achieving exactly what it was designed to do,stiffle dissent across a broad cultural spectrum.It is an ingenious device for advancing an agenda without it being subject to debate,it is a way of obfuscating a problem until it becomes intractable.

If it succeeds it will be a Pyhhric victory for its devotees since it will also devour them.

Jun 4, 2005 - 11:04 am 51. mrp:

Two years after the 9/11 massacres, the Independent (UK) published an essay by one of its reporters, Andrew Gumbel (What Americans Know).

The piece offers insight into the mind (and rage) of a Left utterly convinced of its own intellectual superiority over a supine, ignorant American public.

Excerpt:

The President said 11 September happened because people who resented US freedoms wanted to prevent their spread around the world. And an unnerved country was inclined to believe him, because he cast America as a lone, heroic colossus whose sacrifices could be borne with forbearance, even joy. How much more reassuring than the possibility that the United States had in fact betrayed its own democratic principles by doing business with tyrants and monsters, and withheld from whole populations the very freedoms and elemental notions of justice it prized so much at home.

And now they’re abusing the holy book of Islam, too (but keep the Ten Commandments out of US courtrooms )!

It isn’t about Gitmo prisoners, or Muslims, or the War on Terror. For the Left, such issues are hardly more than useful levers to pry apart, to deconstruct, the real enemies: American political societies.

Fantasists, they promote ethereal concepts like “objective reality” as a replacements for twenty-five centuries of Western civilization. And for the cause, any lie or half-truth will do. An alliance with barbarians? Well, to be fair, even Franz von Papen, et al. thought they could pull Adolph Hitler’s strings.

Perhaps an argument can be made, however, that the US MSM is actually trying to foment a War of Religions, for it doesn’t take a great leap of logic for the average American citizen to relate the devotion of Gitmo prisoners to the holy Koran to the impulse that resulted in the incineration of more than 3,000 Americans on September 11, 2001. Let’s see how often the MSM reminds Americans as to exactly why those prisoners are in custody.

(Note: Mr. Gumbel uses the term “Team America” three times in his 9/2003 essay – coincidence?)

Jun 4, 2005 - 11:06 am 52. Old Dad:

Morgan,

I’ve got a lot to learn, but I’m almost certain that English includes more and better swear words than any other language, although I’ll admit that Italian expression seems to have better gestures and hand signs.

Jun 4, 2005 - 11:08 am 53. Rick Ballard:

Skookumchuk,

I’m betting that Saddam may swing before the deadline for the new constitution. There is no need for a long trial and his being hanged would be a nice “end of chapter” before the “new beginning”.

The next meme du jour is going to regard capital punishment and how the ‘new’ Iraq is no different than the ‘old’ Iraq.

Jun 4, 2005 - 11:17 am 54. Sandy P:

Team America, $*#K YEAH!

Bakalaka dirk dirk jihad, A$$h(*#!

Jun 4, 2005 - 11:19 am 55. Jamie Irons:

Rick (9:45 AM)

Thanks for what you said.

Jamie Irons

Jun 4, 2005 - 11:43 am 56. chuck:

Old Dad,

Hungarians claim to have the best language for swearing — including a whistled version that is good for distance. We olde Goddamns have got competition in the swearing department. Globalization, you know.

Jun 4, 2005 - 11:59 am 57. Kyda Sylvester:

I think I will go to Amazon and check out what a used copy of the Koran is going for. If I order one, I might just put up an alter to the victims of 9/11 and sacrifice my copy of the Koran on said alter.

Terrye, don’t forget to apply for an NEA grant–this is performance art, right?

Jun 4, 2005 - 12:35 pm 58. Kyda Sylvester:

The claims of sexual provocation are hilarious.

Peter, I remember when Abu Graib, the Iraqi branch of our Gulag, broke I had to take a minute to imagine American POWs being “abused” and “tortured” by scantily clad females acting provocatively. Oh, the horror.

Jun 4, 2005 - 12:49 pm 59. Skookumchuk:

Rick:

The MSM has to separately speak to the US audience and to the global audience. For the US audience, their tactic will be the same as always, namely that Iraqis are, in the words of Howard Dean, “worse off” than they were under Saddam. That probably won’t fly with any but the moonbattiest among us, but they’ll give it a go. For a global audience, especially a Middle Eastern audience, they have a somewhat easier task of writing a morality play featuring the Amerikkan Koran Abusers versus the Befuddled Old Tyrant. It will be fascinating to watch.

Jun 4, 2005 - 12:59 pm 60. PeterUK:

Kyda,

I am at the time of writing preparing the put on my kefiyah and head for the US Embassy,and I don’t want any old boot from ACLU or Amnesty turning up and spoiling my holiday.

Jun 4, 2005 - 1:01 pm 61. Buddy Larsen:

Ha! I spent the 15-25 decade doing hardly anything BUT trying to get cornered by genital-grasping females. They’ve got the ‘torture’ aspect not just wrong but exactly backwards!

Jun 4, 2005 - 1:03 pm 62. Kyda Sylvester:

Buddy–Just the 15-25 decade??

Jun 4, 2005 - 1:21 pm 63. PeterUK:

Buddy,

Only 25 eh? What a tragedy,nowadays of course,you can get hormone therapy.

Jun 4, 2005 - 1:24 pm 64. Terrye:

The thing aobut the left that is so funny, [ha ha funny], is that they do such a good job of trashing the country that many of them do not even bother to vote.

My brother thought F911 was kinda cool and he hates Cheney, but he does not actually bother to vote.

He also makes a living off the military. To us a lot of this is really serious, but to some of these people it is just recreation.

I was talking to a guy I know who runs a salvage yard. As you can imagine he meets a lot of regular people. Their attitude is that Bush is way too easy on these crazy bastards and they could give a rat’s ass about the holy koran.

So I think that some people wish the war had not happened because they are tired of hearing their crazy sister in law bitch, but most people know deep down inside that Saddam was a bad hombre and deserves his fate.

As for trying to impeach Bush, well they can try…but they will have to take down a bunch of Democrats to do it. Bush did not get to this place alone.

Jun 4, 2005 - 1:29 pm 65. Kyda Sylvester:

N-NC–Don’t be depressed. As someone who has been cognizant of being pitched about in the MSM cesspool of lies, exaggerations, misrepresentations and obfuscations for lo these many years, I can tell you that these are the days for optimism. This is the first time a forum has existed for speaking truth to media power. Don’t worry. Be happy.

Jun 4, 2005 - 1:37 pm 66. Kyda Sylvester:

Ooh, Buddy, a Brit, no less, is casting aspersions on your Texas sized manhood.

Jun 4, 2005 - 1:40 pm 67. Buddy Larsen:

Har har…try to make a little joke, and get cut to ribbons….;-(

Jun 4, 2005 - 2:07 pm 68. Buddy Larsen:

“We learned,” Kerry continued, “that the mainstream media, over the course of the last year, did a pretty good job of discerning. But there’s a subculture and a sub-media that talks and keeps things going for entertainment purposes rather than for the flow of information. And that has a profound impact and undermines what we call the mainstream media of the country. And so the decision-making ability of the American electorate has been profoundly impacted as a consequence of that. The question is, what are we going to do about it?“

Speaking of jokes.

Jun 4, 2005 - 2:11 pm 69. Buddy Larsen:

Sorry, more o/t, but, but, but, from higher up the PJ O’Rourke essay:

(Kerry) “…something has happened in the way in which we are talking to each other and who is arbitrating the truth in American politics.”

(O’Rourke) “American free speech needs to be submitted to arbitration because Americans aren’t smart enough to have a First Amendment, and you can tell this is so, because Americans weren’t smart enough to vote for John Kerry.”

Jun 4, 2005 - 2:26 pm 70. Kyda Sylvester:

Aw, Kerry’s just sore because Evan Thomas promised MSM would deliver 15 points (the really sad thing is they probably did).

We know what Kerry, what they all want to do about it. Argueably the greatest thing RR did to advance the conservative cause was abolish the Fairness Doctrine.

Lord dontcha love PJ O’Rourke!

As long as were liberal bashing, this brought a smile.

Jun 4, 2005 - 3:21 pm 71. Kevin P:

Roger;

P.J. is the best. Even when I disagree with him he still cracks me up. Erica Jong is a has been. Her speech didn’t have one original phrase,just overused cliches with some references to celebrities to give it an updated feel.Question Authority? Whats next, Love is the answer, expand your minds, never trust anyone over thirty,fight the power, what would ghandi do? The fact that she got paid to give a speech carped from Kos and DU slogans and updated sixties mantra’s is too funny.If she wanted to make it a political speech against Bush, thats ok with me. Just don’t give and old speech from the 70’s with the names changed to update it. I know why she doesn’t sell any books anymore.Why buy the new one when it isn’t any different then the old one.

Jun 4, 2005 - 3:57 pm 72. Buddy Larsen:

Well, she can’t say the angry students weren’t listening to her; she DID keep saying “I want you graduates to get mad when you’re deliberately lied to.”

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:05 pm 73. PeterUK:

Well at least she was honest about the techniques the left uses.

“Whoever controls the words is framing the debate,” Ms. Jong said. “You will be able to be framers of the debate rather than the people sitting there and listening to the conversation. Listen to what is said and question authority. I want you graduates to get mad when you’re deliberately lied to.”

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:14 pm 74. Buddy Larsen:

If she was really honest, she’d've said “I want you graduates to get lied to when I’m deliberately mad!”

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:24 pm 75. chuck:

I know why she doesn’t sell any books anymore.

Well, even the originals no longer appeal. I gave Fear of Flying to a gen-x gal because she didn’t know who Jong was, verdict on the book: *shrug*. Times have moved on, Erica is now the nutty Aunt who wanders thru the house startling the occasional visitor.

The hilarious thing is she wants folks to speak *her* truth to power. The other truths won’t do, their owners haven’t yet spent a life writing about dicks, cunts, fucking, and their own navel, so aren’t qualified.

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:50 pm 76. uranari:

That was close. Had to switch to another screen when the wife walked in. Didn’t want her to catch me reading that last post by chuck.

p.s. I totally agree. And well said. Plus the wife can’t even read English so I was only joking. Though a more rhetorically powerful post would’ve included pictures or at the very least a link.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:10 pm 77. Fresh Air:

Chuck–

I think you better erase your hard drive. I just heard Michael Powell headed this way…

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:14 pm 78. chuck:

Urinari,

Just trying to get Roger more google hits. Hmm…photos. Erica never published photos that I know of, but I bet they exist. Perhaps it would be best for all concerned to leave it to the imagination.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:18 pm 79. Kyda Sylvester:

Ah yes, the “zipless fuck”. How quaint.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:22 pm 80. uranari:

Of her?!? Watch it, I just finished breakfast here.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:24 pm 81. Rick Ballard:

Think Teresa Heinz without Botox.

Stop screaming.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:28 pm 82. PeterUK:

I just noticed this,is this an adult site?

You are not signed in. You need to be registered to comment on this site. Sign in

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:29 pm 83. Buddy Larsen:

Yep, the “40,000 feet Club” was it? See somebody ya like, do ‘em, right there, right now. How ro-friggin-mantic.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:30 pm 84. uranari:

Her book frightened me so much, I haven’t flown since.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:36 pm 85. Buddy Larsen:

Well, at least your arms won’t get tired.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:38 pm 86. PeterUK:

The lady writes poetry as well http://www.ericajong.com/poems/dearanne.htm

Strewf, the bint ain’t ‘arf ar’istic an’all,niver look a’ a pahnd a’stewin’steak the syme agen.

Eat yer art aht Larsen,n’yer liver n’yer lights.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:41 pm 87. Buddy Larsen:

Ha ha, the Roin in Spoin falls moinly on th’ Ploin!

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:50 pm 88. uranari:

Buddy,

I don’t know Buddy. Even I could’ve made that joke: you have a reputation to maintain. But by my calculations you’re still hitting above .950 for the week.

Sometimes a guy just wants to sit back, watch a movie, and get deep vein thrombosis. After that book flying became full of expectations, plain wore me out. Ruined it for me.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:54 pm 89. Kyda Sylvester:

And here we go again.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:55 pm 90. mrp:

I haven’t seen or heard such language since renting “Team America” this afternoon.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:59 pm 91. Terrye:

I just went to look at google news and there was a link to Arab News regarding Koran “abuse” with the first sentence something like Qurans splashed with urine and stepped on and kicked etc. You know, as if there were tons of them. Deliberately misleading.

I would say the Arab journalists are coming along nicely and pretty soon they will be as slick as the western ones.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:01 pm 92. Buddy Larsen:

I know, Uranari, cornY! Well, re Kyda’s link, that was yest. morning? I thought it was still being adjudicated @ close of biz yest. I hope pentagon redacts down to zero, and then says “So sue me.”

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:03 pm 93. Jamie Irons:

Somehow that last exchange between Peter and Buddy reminds me of the Blazing Saddles scene where there’s a town meeting, and one character says (something like):

I’d like to thank Gabby Johnson for that speech. Not only was it delivered in authentic frontier gibberish…”

Jamie Irons

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:05 pm 94. Jamie Irons:

Kyda (5:55 PM),

The MSM wants to destroy this country. It is very clear.

I think the “transparency” they keep talking about is fine. But to make it meaningful, they have to show the public, repeatedly, the video footage from 9/11, with those people jumping out of the Twin Towers to their deaths, and they have to show the jihadis’ tapes of their beheadings, and all the other horrors that our enemy has perpetrated.

But, no, we can’t have that. The American public would be upset by that.

Jamie Irons

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:12 pm 95. Rick Ballard:

The AP/al-WaPo report makes no mention of when the photos were taken (basic J101 error) nor does it mention that the investigations have resulted in X courts martial (basic J101 error). The intent of the article is to lead the incuriously stupid – basic requirement of membership in the MSM niche marketing group – to believe that this is “news” when its just more agitprop.

Intentional errors that might lead one to nominate this as Seditious Article of the Day.

The judge in question is a Clinton appointee. Wonder how much he’s contributed to the American Communist Lawyers Union over the years.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:17 pm 96. Kyda Sylvester:

The MSM wants to destroy this country. It is very clear.

And the ACLU is always pleased to assist.

(heads up–Larsen’s talking in shorthand now)

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:21 pm 97. PeterUK:

Buddy,

That’s Birmingham,I blame Hollywood.Yer orfenic Cockney pranahnces ai as a y,th as f,au as or,u as a.T is a glottal stop and g is silent and a is ar or ah, d is a t or glottal stop,ou as er.

Please remember this, it will be useful when we are snding coded messages from the Peoples Republic of Europe.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:25 pm 98. Fresh Air:

OT–

Massive underground bunker found by Marines near Fallujah.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:29 pm 99. Skookumchuk:

Jamie:

I don’t know if the US MSM as a whole really wants to destroy us. But what they unquestionably do want is to create an international Black Legend about America that will grow and grow in the telling. As an example, here is a headline from today’s English language Buenos Aires Herald (registration required):

Kicked, douzed (sic) in urine: Guant√°namo treatment for Koran

From an allegation of urine droplets through an air vent to this. In less than 24 hours.

The old isolationists thought that America was too good for the world. The new isolationists think that the world is too good for America.

This will be our real fight.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:35 pm 100. Buddy Larsen:

Geez, I’M talking shorthand? I knew Peter was cunning, but not that he was a linguist. But at least I got Birminham right–fits, since I was born near there, in Southern Alabama, at a very young age.;-)

I think I’ll contact FoxNews, and suggest they put together–and heavily promote–a retrospective of 911. This time show the several hundred jumpers, many of whom were on fire.

Jamie’s right, the 911 pix aren’t shown due to their ‘upsetting’ nature. Yet we will be privileged to wallow in Abu Graib again, cut & cropped for drama, no doubt, since “These images may be ugly and shocking … (but) the American public deserves to know what is being done in our name,” (said Anthony D. Romero, executive director of the ACLU).

Don’tcha just love this guy–using the editorial plural–speaking for you?

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:46 pm 101. Jamie Irons:

Skookumchuk:

Excellent post.

Somewhat OT: Let me call everybody’s attention to the always provocative and original David Warren, and his assessment of the Bush administration’s success in the war against Islamofascism, but neglect (according to him) of every other major foreign policy problem. Not sure I agree with him, but his take is interesting…

Jamie Irons

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:47 pm 102. PeterUK:

Fresh Air

Surprising tha the New York times didn’t splash it as “US Marines drive Iraqis from their home”

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:48 pm 103. Kyda Sylvester:

Dude, it’s a bummer when the Man uncovers your stash. Where do you suppose everybody was? First they were terrorists. Then insurgents. Now they’re rebels. Kinda like us back in ‘76. Isn’t that special.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:49 pm 104. Buddy Larsen:

“Freedom Fighters” just a kiss away, kiss away.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:52 pm 105. PeterUK:

Buddy If they had been home it might have been Freedom Fries.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:54 pm 106. Rick Ballard:

Two thirds the amount of office space in the Empire State Building? Surely the UNMOVIC crew knew of this cavern and had searched it thoroughly for WMD. They couldn’t have missed something this large just 60 miles from Baghdad. I’ll bet al Baradei and Scott Ritter helped Blix do an accurate map of the entire complex.

Skookumchuk,

What the Fantasy 500 editors envison for America might not be anything that you or I or Jamie would recognize. Remember, they start every morning with a group sing along of “We’d like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.” And those who don’t need reeducation – or elimination.

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:03 pm 107. Buddy Larsen:

Gosh those freedom-fry days seem so long ago…we’re wiser now. That Warren essay is very clean and short and hopeful. It’s not comic, but there’s a laugh line is his story of another’s fight from France to India, ‘from where the people strain to preserve a 35 hour work-week to where the people strain to achieve a 35 hour work-day.’

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:06 pm 108. Rick Ballard:

Whoops – one quarter the leasable area – actually, thinking of it as 11 3/4 acres may be easier.

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:09 pm 109. PeterUK:

Rick,

Just an oversight,there won’t be any more.Anyway just because you could put a shed load of missiles down there doesn’t means anything.I take the word of Hans “I see no Bombs” Blix.

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:17 pm 110. chuck:

Jamie,

I think Warren’s thoughts are interesting, but he is completely wrong when he tosses off:

This leaves us with other, and potentially worse problems elsewhere, on which it has done nothing at all, nor yet appears to have anything resembling a plan.

The US is moving to shore up relations with Japan, India, and Australia so that there is something solid in the region to deal with China. I think the WOT is winding down and diplomacy is moving to the Pacific. I recently saw an article to this effect that made a deeper analysis of the situation, but I can’t recall where it was to give you a link. Anyhoo, the broad assumption that this administration can’t see the obvious is a bit of a stretch. Now, if Warren were talking about Clinton or Carter, I am sure he would be completely correct in making a gross assumption of nigligence and incompetence.

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:21 pm 111. Rick Ballard:

Peter,

Depending on eave height, I could store between 1500 and 3000 truckloads in that amount of space.

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:35 pm 112. Kyda Sylvester:

Peter, you’re a funny man at 3 o’clock in the morning–whatever are you doing up?

Rick, I’ve kinda been wondering how we missed it before now.

Buddy, Birmingham eh? When I was driving cross country in the late 60’s, I met a cotton salesman in my Atlanta hotel bar (it’s the only time the line “would you like to go out to the parking garage and see my cotton” was tried on me) who advised that I remove my Jersey plates before I ventured into Alabama. US 10 didn’t bypass Birmingham back then (I’m assuming it does now) and led through what had to be the baddest part of town. I confess I actually was relieved to cross the line to Mississippi for gawds sake.

I trust we’re not neglecting India–its too important. The balance we have to strike with it and Pakistan, a crucial ally in the WOT, is very fine.

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:35 pm 113. chuck:

Kyda,

The US is working hard to help India and Pakistan settle their differences. We will just have to wait and see how the little dance over Kashmir goes off. IIRC, we have agreed to sell India advanced F-16’s and such.

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:41 pm 114. PeterUK:

Rick how many are there in he average Iraqi unit? Just wondering what size force could be stationed there.Could be a very nsty surprise if troops bypassed them thus having them in the rear.

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:58 pm 115. chuck:

PeterUK, what rear? I didn’t know there was one.

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:14 pm 116. richard mcenroe:

Rick, PeterUK ó They don’t seem to have put up much of a fight for this redoubt…

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:17 pm 117. Rick Ballard:

C’mon, Richard, I didn’t say it was a redoubt – I said it was large. It could be a smugglers distribution center given its location. Fallujah has been a nest of thieves and smugglers for a long time and even Saddam may not have known about it.

It’s not an American intelligence failure either. If it was rarely used it would have provided no “signature” for us to discover. There could be a hundred such sites undiscovered in Iraq and it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:22 pm 118. Kyda Sylvester:

Veering way OT–again–here’s a long, bitingly funny piece from Heather Mac Donald on Larry Summers 50M dollar mea culpa.

For connoisseurs of diversity claptrap, Harvard’s just released “Report of the Task Force on Women Faculty” is a thing of beauty, a peerless example of the destruction of higher learning by identity politics. Because the report will undoubtedly serve as the template for future diversity scams in colleges across the country, it’s worth studying.

Poor Summers. He tries sometimes, he really does, but always seems to end up a WBS (world’s biggest schmuck).

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:05 pm 119. richard mcenroe:

I dunno, for fifty mil, you could build a terrific Hooters on campus…

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:06 pm 120. chuck:

…for fifty mil, you could build a terrific Hooters on campus…

It would help recruiting for the football team and provide campus employment oportunities for indigent coeds. Great idea, Richard. Unh… would Harvard demand equal numbers of male waiters? Would the faculty faint away and be too weak to teach? On second though, maybe it’s not such a good idea after all. Too bad.

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:30 pm 121. Syl:

Damn..nobody will read this.

I’ve got to respond to the myth that Kerry and the democrats continue spouting re Americans believing that Saddam was connected with 9/11.

We’ve failed to do our jobs here and have allowed that myth to continue.

Yes, the WaPo poll often cited (the one from 6/03/2003) DOES show that 72% of Americans believed it likely that Saddam had something to do with 9/11..

BUT

A similar poll taken TWO DAYS AFTER 9/11 shows almost the same thing!!!!!! 78%!!!!!!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/vault/stories/data082303.htm

The Democrats blame Bush and Cheney whereas it was Clinton who informed the American public of how dangerous Saddam was! Otherwise HOW IN HELL did the American public suspect Saddam Hussein’s involvement at all…long before there was even a whisper about invading Iraq?!?!?!? Before Bush ever mentioned Saddam’s name????

And Dana Milbank’s article on September 6, 2003, re the Wapo’s 8/11/03 similar poll (also listed in the link above) is totally dishonest!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A32862-2003Sep5&notFound=true

Milbank quotes Bush to explain how people got the idea that Saddam was connected to 9/11 but NO mention at all by Milbank of the poll taken by WaPo on 9/13/01!!

That data indicate that FEWER people believed it in the fall of 2003 than after 9/11.

This is truly and utterly disgusting and lousy, dishonest journalism.

(Maybe I’ll save this post to post higher up in a thread at some point if not too off topic. This is a subject that really burns me.)

Jun 4, 2005 - 9:51 pm 122. Morgan:

I propose founding a university that explicitly adopts “White Male Standards of Excellence” (I don’t know exactly what that means, but don’t bother me with details) for faculty and students, billing that as a diversity in education issue, as all other universities have been forced to abandon the approach. Think of the inspiring gallery of portraits and busts you could have in such a place – not just white men, of course, but all those who have demonstrated excellence by the standards adopted.

Oh, you’d miss out on Cornell West and er… what was her name? Erica Jong? But still, it would be quite a lineup. Mathematicians from Pythagoras and Archimedes through Galois and Newton to Taniyama, Shimura, and Wiles. Engineers – why, anyone who insisted that the damn thing had to work before it was declared complete would qualify, as would any scientist who thought it was necessary to collect good data and rigorously test a theory before granting it credence.

Its minority graduates will go on to teach at Harvard, thereby rescuing the venerable institution from itself.

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:03 pm 123. Kyda Sylvester:

I hear you, Syl (and lots of folks will be back to this thread tomorrow, I should think, but by all means do bring it up again).

The “Bush said the Iraqi threat was imminent” thing drove me similarly crazy. Each time I would encounter it, I would shoot an email to either the writer of the piece or the editors (I had a standard letter with quotes and links on my word processor all set to go). If it was particularly egregious, I might send it to Brit Hume.

The answers I got, which were few, basically amounted to this: Bush may not have said it in so many words (it fact he said exactly the opposite), but it nontheless was the message he wanted to convey and he did so effectively (not bad for such a stoopid man).

Besides that and talking it up in forums like this, what other avenues are available?

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:36 pm 124. Sandy P:

If you want to take on the ACLU – here’s a way, via Rantburg:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44584

The ACLU, representing an atheist, is threatening five San Diego-area personalities with legal action over the proposed wording of a ballot initiative that will determine the fate of a historic cross on city land.

SNIP

McElroy claims that a number of their statements on the ballot, prepared for the July 26 city-wide vote, are “false and misleading.”

Some statements at issue include, “as in the case with Mount Soledad, wherever veterans are honored with the symbols of the fallen, an intolerant few will launch frivolous lawsuits that waste our tax dollars Ö .”

Another statement under challenge is, “in 2004, the president of the United States signed legislation designating the Mount Soledad site as a ‘National War Memorial,’ necessitating the land transfer.”

McElroy also objects to the sentence, “Vote Yes to transfer the land to the federal government and to permanently preserve Mount Soledad — as it is where it is.”

SNIP

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:55 pm 125. Syl:

“The answers I got, which were few, basically amounted to this: Bush may not have said it in so many words (it fact he said exactly the opposite), but it nontheless was the message he wanted to convey and he did so effectively (not bad for such a stoopid man).”

Typical

The REAL reason they started the Imminent Myth was the headline in the LA Times the day after Bush’s SOTU. It had NOTHING to do with what Bush wanted us to think and EVERYTHING to do with the MSM lying as well as the Democrats using it in all their speeches and soundbytes.

Ooooh. Looky what I found when I tried to Google the LA Times headline (Bush Calls Iraq Imminent Threat): A Brief History of the Imminent Threat Canard

http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/archives/001158.html

All we can do is point it out everytime we see or hear it.

Jun 4, 2005 - 10:59 pm 126. PeterUK:

Syl,

Email it to Roger,it deserves a thresd of its own which will get linked.

Jun 5, 2005 - 4:31 am 127. Buddy Larsen:

Syl, Dana Milbank ought to be sued for libel, alright. There’s a big diff between political ’slanting’ and plain old out-n-out objective & deliberate LYING about concrete facts.

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:19 am 128. Buddy Larsen:

Sandy P (your name always reminds me of beer & beach! …wrt Mount Soledad, San Diego itself offends me and I think it should be changed. It’s so illegal, derived from Santiago, or Saint James, the patron saint of (sniff) laborers. It violates my civil rights out the wazoo. I want it to have a simple alphonumerical designation, such as Cal3 or something.

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:37 am 129. Buddy Larsen:

The ACLU, and the entire anti-religion religion, is either astonishingly stupid or breathtakingly sneaky. If anyone at all should be able to recognize the power of reaction, it should be other reactionaries.

But maybe that’s the idea; to force religious folks to more and more organize politically and react back. Thus emphasizing the danger posed by diverse factions per se, to the state.

If ACLU were given the task of improving the Constitution, what would it look like afterwards?

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:57 am 130. Rick Ballard:

“If ACLU were given the task of improving the Constitution, what would it look like afterwards?”

Well, their working model has been around for a bit.

Jun 5, 2005 - 7:50 am 131. Jamie Irons:

Buddy:

If ACLU were given the task of improving the Constitution, what would it look like afterwards?

Of course, as you know, “improving the Constitution” is precisely what the ACLU crowd has in mind.

Remember, it’s a “living document.”

As in the sense of Young Frankenstein:

It’s alive!

Jamie Irons

Jun 5, 2005 - 7:54 am 132. Buddy Larsen:

Ha…I was just reading the 12 articles (Rick’s link) of chapter one of the USSR constitution, and came back here with the intent of asking how long it will be until pitchfork and torch-wielding religious fundies will storm the ACLU-type Bastilles, and there’s Jamie, having appeared with the perfect image. Synchronicity.

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:02 am 133. Buddy Larsen:

Per those 12 articles, it’s clear ‘The People’ owned everything in the USSR…but, where were ‘The People’s’ dachas? Hell, where were their washing machines? And toasters? At least there was plenty of free time, to socialize in the bread lines. How was the Nomenklatura any different from the Czar’s aristocracy? Just a different name on the same deed. I know I belabor the obvious, but the point is, the sh*t obviously don’t work–so the New Reds can’t possibly have purity of motive. Just shooting their way into power, with legal briefs instead of bullets.

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:10 am 134. Buddy Larsen:

..or ballots, either.

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:13 am 135. Buddy Larsen:

Team America is under a full-scale attack thru our own judicial system. We are being torturously harassed by NGOs. Are there no remedies? No legal remedies?

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:18 am 136. c:

The ACLU took our little neighborhood to court over a “restrictive” sign ordinance on behalf on a nearby condo complex whose sign was too large. Am told the upshot of the court case is that the ACLU sympathetic judge threw out the baby with the bathwater and ‘rethought’ the entire ordinance. Now, no resident is legally entitled to place holiday decorations, such as for Christmas, Halloween and the Fourth of July, within 15 feet of the right of way, even though it is private property and houses in our older section are close to the street. Also, no one is allowed to fly university or team flags, etc. on their homes, b/c the ACLU called that commercial speech disallowed by the ordinance.

Maybe I’ll get arrested in a month when I place little American flags on my property along the sidewalk for the Independence Day parade that goes by here, and be sent to an American gulag for my ACLU unapproved speech. Will petition AI to fight for my release

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:21 am 137. Terrye:

Syl:

There are a lot of people that think Saddam had something to do with the Federal building being blown up in OKC back in the 90’s too…but it has nothing to do with Bush.

Saddam tried to kill a president and there were ties between Iraq and the first attack on the WTC. It would seem to me that it would only be natural for people to wonder.

I think that is what the data really means. I think a lot of people think these bad guys are tied together like mafia kingpins. They might not all be guilty of everything, but they are guilty of something.

The truth is people can not be sure he did not have something to do with 911 either. Anyone who says different is lying.

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:26 am 138. Buddy Larsen:

What really bothers me is that the organization is so politicized now that, had we not stolen the last couple of presidential elections, and had crazy Al Gore, locked in his bedroom at the White House, as the ACLU’s moral force-multiplier, we could all be essentially done, defeated, on the the ideals of the radical American Revolution.

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:31 am 139. Rick Ballard:

It took me a bit, but if you want to see the nature of ACLU “proposed revisions” Cass Sunstein outlined some “positive rights” at a Yale Law School symposium.

“Positive rights” are those for which the productive will be taxed in order that they may be provided to the non-productive.

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:44 am 140. richard mcenroe:

Good news, everyone! A court has ruled that the Army must turn over ALL the Abu Ghraib videos and photographs to the ACLU for public release! Now we can all watch big tuff Arab men being sexually humiliated by skinny little white wimmen!

I say it becomes a DVD bestseller!

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:55 am 141. Buddy Larsen:

F**K YEAH!

Jun 5, 2005 - 9:13 am 142. PeterUK:

…and still they are at it.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050605/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/bolton_un_firing_11

Jun 5, 2005 - 9:31 am 143. Terrye:

Oh great.

I wonder how many Americans they will get killed if they release those pictures. Oh well, as long as it hurts Bush who gives a shit? Right? Isn’t that what the average Democrat thinks?

Someday this stuff will come back on Amnesty and the ACLU.

Americans have a right to know that the ACLU is trying to get American soldiers killed. The American people have a right to know that Amnesty wants a bunch of terrorists turned loose to go out and kill people.

And Americans have the right to see the beheadings, the people jumping from the WTC. We have a right to hear the dying screams of the people in Flight 93. We have a right to see what was left Margaret Hassan.

We have a right to see the soldiers building schools and providing food and medicine to the Iraqi people.

We have a right to see up close what the suicide bombers do to people. Those brave resistance fighters.

This kind of thing can backfire on these guys. It really can.

Jun 5, 2005 - 9:40 am 144. Rick Ballard:

In other news:

There are indications that the SBL, Ltd. acquisition of the DNC is running into some problems.

Dean is such a gift. Top Dem Senators saying “the DNC doesn’t speak for me”. What a party.

Jun 5, 2005 - 9:56 am 145. Buddy Larsen:

Rick, this post doesn’t speak for me, neither does my mouth, but I thought Terrye might feel better clicking here and being sure to read in addition to the post & pix, the comment from ‘bunkerbuster’(ht instapundit).

Jun 5, 2005 - 10:11 am 146. Buddy Larsen:

BTW, the link to the Yale conference is absolutely astounding, the newspeak is hair-raising–this is under the auspices of one of our top universities? Not that a coup against our system of government is being advocated, but that the conferees do not even seem to notice what they’re saying. They’re thoroughly brainwashed, and they’re our legal-theory intellectual elite. Old grumpy David Horowitz says the academy entirely needs complete audit, starting with a blue-chip accounting firm to chart the accounts.

Jun 5, 2005 - 10:19 am 147. Syl:

Terrye, when you’re good you’re good, but when you’re pissed off you’re even better.

These groups are all part of the progressive movement that puts itself above the sovereignty of all nations. That’s how even the ACLU can be so freaking anti-American. Damn. Our civil liberties are not absolute, they are limited by the ability and will of our own society to protect itself and to maintain internal order.

And what was that judge thinking? There is no right to know in the constitution!

Jun 5, 2005 - 10:54 am 148. PeterUK:

ACLU want’s the pictures because it is establishing precedent,what ever they want next will be easier to obtain.What this is is the thin end of the wedge in establishing external legal control over the military.ACLU has already taken a bite out of religion.

Jun 5, 2005 - 11:09 am 149. Occam's Beard:

Semi OT:

I have a question relating to the Mount Soledad cross “controversy” and Koran “desecration”; why the hell isn’t the ACLU throwing a conniption fit about the US Government providing those clowns with Korans in the first place?

Instead of (or at least, in addition to) worrying about the cross, why don’t they file suit to block the Government from providing religious articles at taxpayers’ expense?

I fully support separation of church and state, and would oppose providing Bibles OR Korans to anyone at taxpayers’ expense. So…ACLU, over to you. Do the voodoo, that you do, so well. And for once, do something productive. Always good to try new things.

Jun 5, 2005 - 11:10 am 150. Kyda Sylvester:

Peter, there’s that Bolton advocating for the US again. This shall not stand.

Jun 5, 2005 - 11:35 am 151. Buddy Larsen:

Take a look at the Bolton pic, that AP selected for the article (Peter’s link). Hey, that’s the Herr Schicklegruber pose! The moustach must’ve been irresistable to the Associated Pricks.

Jun 5, 2005 - 11:47 am 152. Terrye:

Syl:

I am going to call the Indiana branch {ACLU} and raise hell.

If you think I am good in print, I am even better in person.

Like my ex used to say, you are a mean little shit aren’t you?

I am going to ask them why they don’t raise hell about the military providing people with Korans. I mean isn’t that a violation of the seperation of church and state or some such?

I am also going to ask them who died and made them king. or something like that.. self appointed, self serving, self anointed, self obsessed, self serving little shits. If this gets people killed I guess as long as that is the big bad military that is ok. for them anyway.

I tell you what, I bet more Americans know someone in the military than some freaking liberal ass lawyer from the freaking ACLU.

Who gets to decide what it is our right to know?

It sure as hell should not be the effing ACLU.

What happens to these groups?

When did they get so political? The NAACP, the ACLU and even Amnesty do not bear a passing resemblance to the groups I remember them being years ago. They sold out.

Jun 5, 2005 - 11:51 am 153. Kyda Sylvester:

C–My jaw is hanging open–literally. When we finally lose our property rights, it’s all over.

Rick–If you ever have a few hours you want to kill and need your hackles got up, go read all the posts at the Constitution 2020 Blogspot. I promise you won’t be disappointed.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:03 pm 154. Buddy Larsen:

Go get, Terrye. But to answer your 5W question, I think that it all started when the USSR began targeting USA in the 30s. KGB has admitted as much, that their efforts to buy and sell influence under the radar succeeded beyond their dreams, so far as getting a fifth-column of useful idiots up & running in the west. What we see now is momentum, a long fading arc that will be stuck in our craw until nature mercifully kills off everything that came out of American Liberal Arts in the 20th century.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:04 pm 155. Buddy Larsen:

Jeez, I’ve caught Ballardomixametphoro syndrome. Hope it ain’t chronic. Hate to have an arc stuck in my craw forever.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:07 pm 156. Kyda Sylvester:

I’m reporting you to James Taranto.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:16 pm 157. PeterUK:

Why not get ACLU’s charitable status looked at,if an examination of bias can prove politicisation of the organisation.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:16 pm 158. Kyda Sylvester:

Terrye–I like mean little shits. I’m one too (there’s any number who don’t like to see me coming). Go, girl.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:20 pm 159. chuck:

I am also going to ask them who died and made them king. or something like that.. self appointed, self serving, self anointed, self obsessed, self serving little shits.

When did they get so political? The NAACP, the ACLU and even Amnesty do not bear a passing resemblance to the groups I remember them being years ago. They sold out.

Its the boomers, yes the boomers…ta,ta,taa. We should make a series of photos apologising for our generation. Put it in a time capsule or something.

I attended an ACLU meeting back in the early 90’s and could tell that leaving was in my future. I didn’t much like the other members, thought they were bigoted goody-goodies, and none too bright, full of platitudes. The very representation of the ruined wing of the boomers. So, I have left. Thank God (oops), now I can join the fun bad mouthing the bastards.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:22 pm 160. Kyda Sylvester:

Peter, if the IRS were doing a proper job, there’d be all kinds of NGO’s and “charitable” organizations put out of business.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:23 pm 161. Buddy Larsen:

Need a national omsbudsman or something, as whoever looks into them, the looking will be more politicization, only from the other side. Subtle old traditions (such as a non-partisan national press) are anything but subtle in the breach.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:25 pm 162. Kyda Sylvester:

Its the boomers, yes the boomers…ta,ta,taa. We should make a series of photos apologising for our generation. Put it in a time capsule or something.

Great idea, Chuck. We could start one of those web sites like the folks who apologize for America. I think I have the somber “me bad” face and compassionate head tilt just about perfected.

(Why am I told “you are not signed in” right after I’ve completed another post? Is Typekey trying to tell me something?)

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:30 pm 163. Rick Ballard:

“Jeez, I’ve caught Ballardomixametphoro syndrome.”

It’s decision time, Larsen, you’ve finally come to the bridge and you must decide which fork in the road to take in crossing it.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:35 pm 164. Buddy Larsen:

I know. If only I could save time in a bottle, I wouldn’t have to ride it over a cliff.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:45 pm 165. PeterUK:

Go with the Force Buddy, avert your eyes from the left path.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:46 pm 166. Buddy Larsen:

Yes, that way be Dragones.

Jun 5, 2005 - 12:58 pm 167. Kyda Sylvester:

Great link, Syl. I’ve saved it in case I ever have to revive that particular letter writing campaign.

Jun 5, 2005 - 1:00 pm 168. Buddy Larsen:

Terrye, I’d like to officially request (harumph) your characterization of the reaction of the functionary whose arse is as we speak being prepped for a roasting on the morrow.

Jun 5, 2005 - 1:04 pm 169. Kyda Sylvester:

WRT the ACLU court decision, can someone tell me, does FOI apply to documents related to a war in which we are still engaged?

Jun 5, 2005 - 1:44 pm 170. Kyda Sylvester:

This is priceless (this guy needs to go back and listen to his own press conference).

Jun 5, 2005 - 1:57 pm 171. PeterUK:

How does publishing the pictures benefit the alleged victims, surely they have human rights also.Rights are not infinite they overlap and conflict,how does the public’s right to know compare with the right not to have embarrassing pictures published?

Jun 5, 2005 - 1:59 pm 172. PeterUK:

Kyda,They are flying a kite,Kahn also backtracked.

If Irene Kahn can say this,

“The administration’s response has been that our report is absurd, that our allegations have no basis, and our answer is very simple: if that is so, open up these detention centers, allow us and others to visit them,” Amnesty International Secretary General Irene Zubaida Khan told a news conference.

(Instapundit)

Then she cannot possibly say this,

“Guatanamo is the Gulag of our time”.

Because quite simply,Amnesty International obviously does not know.Irene Kahn has admitted that the whole is speculation.

From the previous AI post

Jun 5, 2005 - 2:08 pm 173. Kyda Sylvester:

I just watched Chris Wallace grilling Schulz on Fox News Sunday. He did a good job and showed Schulz to be the officious little backtracking twerp he is. (His “It would be fascinating to find out. I have no idea.” answer was a howl. Hissy-fit perfect delivery.)

Jun 5, 2005 - 2:31 pm 174. PeterUK:

These people have no gravitas, sense of responsiblity or decency.Is it because they work in a make believe organisation where if you make things up there are no consequences,things are so because they “feel” it is so?

There needs to be something that takes them out of the cocoon of adolescence and into the world of adults.

Jun 5, 2005 - 2:49 pm 175. Captain Hate:

Count me in on any “Sorry to be a Boomer” site. What a generation of smugly whining vats of hubris. Rocky and Bullwinkle’s creator must’ve seen the leading edge of this and dreamt up Mr. Peabody’s Wayback Machine as a means out of this malaise.

Jun 5, 2005 - 2:50 pm 176. chuck:

Not as good as it sounds, ACLU shredding documents.

Jun 5, 2005 - 2:55 pm 177. Buddy Larsen:

Saw the Chris Wallace interview…Schultz is good at what he does, seamless buckpassing, backtracking, dissembling, temporizing. Chris should’ve asked him, out of the blue, “Sir, are you a Communist?” Just for the reaction–the first, quicksilver reaction.

Jun 5, 2005 - 3:07 pm 178. Kyda Sylvester:

Maybe we should start a “Sorry to be a Boomer” site. Could be pretty funny.

Jun 5, 2005 - 3:15 pm 179. Terrye:

Well I have to admit I am not proud to be a baby boomer.

We are all so full of ourselves.

My Dad’s generation thought they were part of the world, I am afraid my generation thinks they are the world.

I agree with Peter. I would say those people have been humiliated enough and showing more pictures in the name of human rights when you obviously don’t give a damn what they think is pretty ridiculous.

I watched Chris Wallace go after Shulz also.

That man [Schulz] is such an ass. He did his best to compare the US to every hell hole out there, but he came off looking pretty damn silly. It is like the crap about no lawyers, I have been hearing for months about the lawyers flocking to Gitmo. In fact there is a battle right now to decide which kind of court will hear their cases. I wonder if a bunch of them will be released in the mean time. Biden says we should do this, but that does not change the fact that we have to decide how to deal with potential terrorists. and we can not count on Amnesty for anything remotely resembling a viable alternative. gulag, my ass.

As for all the camps all over the world we are supposedly disappearing people into, he never said where they were. I hope they never get near any of these people, Amnesty is not to be trusted.

He made the remark that the US used Amnesty’s information in regards to Saddam. I doubt anyone will take them that serioulsy again and where Saddam was concerned there was ample information out there.

Buddy, who is that you are referring to?

Jun 5, 2005 - 3:23 pm 180. Kyda Sylvester:

“We are the world. We are the people.” That can be our theme song. Captain Hate can hold up a sign saying “I’m sorry I’m a smugly whining vat of baby boomer hubris”.

Jun 5, 2005 - 3:30 pm 181. Buddy Larsen:

Terrye, the ‘functionary’ do you mean? I was referring to your upstream plan to phone your local ACLU cell.

Jun 5, 2005 - 3:34 pm 182. chuck:

LOL, Kyda, thanks for the laugh. Maybe some sort of Rap song, reprising our glorious history?

Jun 5, 2005 - 3:38 pm 183. PeterUK:

Terrye,

More in that vein,won’t ACLU be infringing the alleged victims human rights if they release the picture to the MSM who will then make money out of them?Would they do it if they were white instead of brown men,are they not taking advantage of poor third world peasants>

Jun 5, 2005 - 3:40 pm 184. PeterUK:

At a pinch it will fit to Pinball Wizard.

Jun 5, 2005 - 3:49 pm 185. Buddy Larsen:

The Who…got me thinking, the English, that’s who…sendin’ them dang Beatles over here. We were FINE ’til then, with “How Much is that Doggie in the Window?” and “Flyin’ Purple People Eater”.

Jun 5, 2005 - 3:58 pm 186. Kyda Sylvester:

Oh absolutely, Chuck. There should be many such tributes to our glorious history. But do you really think rap is us?

Jun 5, 2005 - 3:59 pm 187. Terrye:

Buddy:

Oh that functionary. I have not decided yet. The trick is to keep them on the phone long enought to chew them out. If you get too ugly too fast, they just hang up. the cowards.

Well…I just sent an email to ACLU in which I said that if anyone died because of this inane decision I would always think of the deaths as the ACLU murders.

Peter:

I think the Iraqi government would be within its rights to ask for the photos to not be shown. It will make things harder for them as well. But I am beginning to think the ACLU wants that. murder and mayhem… their favorite things.

I could personally whip the dumbasses who created this situation. That woman officer running the place should be smacked upside the head for not keeping people in line.

It is so unfair to taint all those people for the actions of a few.

I know worse things happen right here in our own prison system. That does not make it ok or anything, but a little perpective would be nice.

Jun 5, 2005 - 4:03 pm 188. mrp:

Terrye,

More in that vein,won’t ACLU be infringing the alleged victims human rights if they release the picture to the MSM who will then make money out of them?Would they do it if they were white instead of brown men,are they not taking advantage of poor third world peasants>

Sink me, that’s a damn’d elusive thought, sir!

Jun 5, 2005 - 4:03 pm 189. PeterUK:

Interesting take by Nick Cohen on Amnesty Interference.http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1499460,00.html

Also Stephen Pollard ,

“I used to be a member of AI, and was proud to be so. I let my membership lapse when I realised that, far from championing human rights everywhere, AI had been taken over by Western self-haters and turned into a political campaigning organisation with a distinctly anti-Western (and specifically anti-American) agenda. I applaud Nick Cohen’s sentiments, but fear that it’s already too late to save the AI that was”.

Both are left and both have noticed the perversion of Amnesty’s ideals.

Jun 5, 2005 - 4:06 pm 190. Kyda Sylvester:

“Cherry Pink & Apple Blossom White” our final moment of innocence–the last Billboard #1 hit before…l o’clock 2 o’clock 3 o’clock rock. They tried to warn us.

Jun 5, 2005 - 4:13 pm 191. PeterUK:

Kyda,

Yes, nobody realised that the Devil had his own soundtrack.

Jun 5, 2005 - 4:37 pm 192. Kyda Sylvester:

The Nick Cohen piece was interesting indeed. I found myself nodding right along in agreement, but, sigh, he had to say it:

By all means, Amnesty and everyone else should loudly deplore America’s failure to treat prisoners of war in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.

Jun 5, 2005 - 4:51 pm 193. chuck:

“Cherry Pink & Apple Blossom White”

Yeah, but have you ever listened to it backwards?

Jun 5, 2005 - 4:57 pm 194. PeterUK:

Kyda,

The comrades would have ripped of his epaulets cut off his button,broken his sword and drummed him out of the regiment.As it is he’ll never lunch with Noam again.

Jun 5, 2005 - 5:04 pm 195. PeterUK:

Yeah, but have you ever listened to it backwards?

What,you mean with your back to the Radiogram?

Jun 5, 2005 - 5:10 pm 196. Captain Hate:

“But do you really think rap is us?”

Oh God no. Listen to any soundtrack by a boomer producer and what do you hear? Classic crock!!

Jun 5, 2005 - 5:21 pm 197. Terrye:

Kyda:

I think the problem with the Geneva Conventions and Gitmo is the status of the detainees.

POWs need only give name, rank and serial number. That is why these men are called illegal combatants. They are to be treated humanely. The question arises as to what exactly that is.

Once things get murky it is easier to accuse the US of abusing people. Schulz brought up some crap about Rumsfeld and torture and said that the Pentagon did away with 3 out of 30 tecniques on the grounds they were inhumane. Then the question came up about everything from sleep deprivation to leaving people in an uncomfortable position being inhumane.

To hear Schulz tell it the US has no right to keep these people without lawyers and without access from people such as himself, and we do not have the right to question them.

Meanwhile people all over the world are being locked up or killed or starved just for disagreeing with their own governments and Amnesty can not be bothered.

Jun 5, 2005 - 5:21 pm 198. mrp:

AI goes with the cash flow, Terrye.

Look, for instance, at the participation for the upcoming “United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture” hosted by a local AI chapter in British Columbia, Group 27.

Workshops, plays, the entire pageant of left-wing groupthink. The poor schlubs rotting in Castro’s prisons might as well be on a Jovian moon.

Jun 5, 2005 - 5:52 pm 199. Kyda Sylvester:

Listen, these people can’t have it every which way from Sunday. They have to take a position and stick with it. Either the Gitmo detainees are POWs under the jurisdiction of the Geneva Convention or they’re under arrest and being illegally detained without access to lawyers and due process. We already have made our determination: they’re neither. They’re enemy combatants who legally could have been shot out on the battlefield. We’ll release ‘em if and when we’re done with them. So there.

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:06 pm 200. Terrye:

mrp:

Is that the same UN that just put Zimbabwe back on the Humans Rights Cosmmission.

One thing I wondered. That idiot Schulz was blwoing off about secret prisons all over the world. What the hell is that? He gave not one specific.

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:07 pm 201. Buddy Larsen:

But they’re secret, Terrye…nobody can talk about them because nobody knows anything…because they’re secret. But, we just know, there’s lots and lots and lots of them somewhere out there.

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:11 pm 202. Buddy Larsen:

Castro must be laughing his ass off.

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:12 pm 203. PeterUK:

But isn’t it Amnesty’s job to find and expose those prisons,what else are they for? Are they saying that they are not up to the job?

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:26 pm 204. Buddy Larsen:

Maybe they need more funding. To really find all the secret prisons.

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:32 pm 205. Kyda Sylvester:

Castro is always laughing. As well he might.

Did you see this? Hugo might want to read this and think about it some more.

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:37 pm 206. mrp:

From KS’s Rooters link:

“Cuban partners say they will pay back investments and money owed for operating costs from future profits, but it is doubtful the companies will even exist in the future,” said the commercial attache at a European embassy.

Whoa! Investigate Cuba’s “secret profits” now!

Jun 5, 2005 - 6:51 pm 207. Luther McLeod:

Well I was angry when I posted up above and I certainly feel no different now that I have read this thread. They are all a bunch of liars with blood on their hands. They stand for nothing but destruction of the greatest country of the world (sorry peter.)

It strikes me that except for the occasional troll there is no one from ‘the other side’ who will come here to discuss and debate the issues. The obvious reason is that you folks would chew ‘em up and spit ‘em out. But more than that, its because they would come face to face with the emptiness of their ‘ideals and ideas.’ All these ‘anti American’ jerks have to offer is fear, negativism and the ‘just let us run things and you’ll be fine’ philosophy.

That 2020 Constitution site and the conference site is some scary shit. And why o why can’t we turn water into oil? Hugo and Fidel are going to cause a great deal of trouble.

It is just so fortunate that blogs now exist. I can’t even imagine where this country (or me) would be without them.

Oh, I’ve always thought it started with the interstate highway system.

Jun 5, 2005 - 7:02 pm 208. Buddy Larsen:

And the fluoride, Luther–don’t forget that damn fluoride!

Kyda, your Caribbe links, contract law being what a dictator says it is from day-to-day is what has taken Coober from the gem of the Caribbean in the 50s to the rat nest it is today. Hard to feel too sorry for the businesses getting cleaned out currently; what did they expect?

Lay the mess at the feet of Jimmy Carter, who gave away the Panama Canal–now being run by PRC companies–and collaborated with Chavez to take over Venezuela, and has kissed Fidel’s arse every which way he could for thirty years, for the anti-rule-of-law, anti-capitalist, anti-freedom forces now building in concert just to the south of neighbor Mexico.

I think history will make harmless little Jimmy out to be one of the worst destroyers of the era.

Jun 5, 2005 - 7:30 pm 209. Rick Ballard:

Buddy,

Let’s hope that no one else matchs Jimmah in attempting to create a ‘legacy’ to make up for a lousy presidency.

Jun 5, 2005 - 7:47 pm 210. Buddy Larsen:

Right, no horror visited upon oppressed foreigners or world peace & prosperity is too great for him to miss a chance to tweak the republicans.

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:03 pm 211. Kyda Sylvester:

Jimmy gets my nod as the worst president of my lifetime and he had some stiff competition to overcome. He also gets the nod for worst ex-president. So far. That fellow Rick alluded to has got it what it takes to pull ahead in that race.

Someone help me out. Wasn’t the deal made for the canal during the Ford administration and Jimmy happened to be the guy in charge on the date certain?

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:14 pm 212. Buddy Larsen:

Jeez, that would destroy a meme, Kyda. But, in fairness, the deal was an attempt to prettify the ugly American, in times before we realized the attempt doesn’t really improve relations with the folks already against ya. I’ll google the genesis of the thing and report back.

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:23 pm 213. Buddy Larsen:

Here’s a comprehensive–if partisan–history. Seems the bill started rolling under LBJ, continued under each succeeding administration, and was finally marked up and signed by Jimmah.

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:31 pm 214. Buddy Larsen:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/06-21-99/vo15no13_panama.htm

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:31 pm 215. Buddy Larsen:

Was anything ever more delightful than 60s England?

Jun 5, 2005 - 8:55 pm 216. Kyda Sylvester:

Why thank you, Buddy. I certainly could have done all that myself–you’re a true gentleman.

Mr. Jasper tells a lively tale. Considering the rogues gallery of players through the years (seeing those names all in a row could make your eyes bleed), I shouldn’t claim surprise. But Jimmy the Cheese stands alone for that final little twist. And I’m not sure I knew that the actual handover didn’t occur until 12/31/99. But then, I can’t say I knew (or at least remembered) much of anything about this.

Jun 5, 2005 - 9:20 pm 217. Kyda Sylvester:

The chronology is interesting. The Brits missed out on the 50’s altogether and went from the 40’s to the 60’s mid decade and for us the 60’s began in 1963 with JFK’s assassination and ended in 1974 with Nixon’s resignation. Which, in turn, made the 70’s a mercifully short decade (it sucked eggs).

Jun 5, 2005 - 9:45 pm 218. Luther McLeod:

Good link Buddy, and good rebuttal.

“the first time in decades, teenagers had the wherewhithal to enjoy life”

There’s the key I think, our own success is our own demise. Adversity builds character, or something like that

Jun 5, 2005 - 10:06 pm 219. Catherine:

Late to the party, but as usual I’m on track with Terrye (and Wallace!)

My immediate–and I mean instantaneous, split-second, speed-of-light–response to this story was to think, So these are the same folks who were outraged when Rudy tried to withhold public funding for dunking Jesus in urine.

Not only was it a Good Thing to display a crucifix soaking in p**, it was such a good thing that we taxpayers had to pay for it.

So if we’ve got soldiers at Guantanamo dunking the Koran in urine, I say this is just another case of Your tax dollars at work.

Jun 6, 2005 - 11:46 am 220. Buddy Larsen:

I remember grampaw singing the old ditty:

“You’re in the Army, Now!”

I guess now it’d be

“Urine the Army, Now!”

Jun 6, 2005 - 1:12 pm 221. PeterUK:

“the first time in decades, teenagers had the wherewhithal to enjoy life”

Teenagers always had that ,this was the first time they had money.

Jun 6, 2005 - 1:45 pm 222. J Mack:

Kyda, How can you say that.

Pawan

Aug 9, 2005 - 11:09 pm

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