75 Comments

1. richard mcenroe:

How do you say, “Farewell, Sweet Concord…” in Arabic?

Jun 3, 2005 - 2:52 pm 2. dr. sanity:

Here’s a prayer for him (whether he’s dead or not yet): http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.173437230&par=0

Jun 3, 2005 - 3:02 pm 3. PeterUK:

Up he comes.

Jun 3, 2005 - 3:17 pm 4. Rick Ballard:

I wonder if Roger has been sentenced to the Seal Rock Inn. If he’s spent the day with his editors we should be seeing a lot of new posts. Each hour of a bastinado session with editors will keep a writer off his feet for a week.

Jun 3, 2005 - 4:09 pm 5. Jamie Irons:

May he roast in Hell.

Jamie Irons

Jun 3, 2005 - 4:13 pm 6. Rick Ballard:

Dr. Sanity slipped a cog – here is her prayer for Zarqawi.

I wonder why so many mental health professionals are drawn to this blog? Is it Roger? Or is there something about some of the commenters?

Jun 3, 2005 - 4:19 pm 7. uranari:

For some reason this feels true. Rumsfeld’s warning the other day. A few other things.

Running around for a few weeks with a gut wound. I hope that’s true. Sounds painful. Not painful enough, but painful.

Jun 3, 2005 - 4:33 pm 8. PeterUK:

Uranari,

Stomach wounds are extremely painful,especially if septicaemia sets in,I had hoped he would live longer.

Jun 3, 2005 - 4:39 pm 9. Luther McLeod:

That’s good news if true. I just hope it was painful, at least it was slow.

Jun 3, 2005 - 4:40 pm 10. Terrye:

I hope this is true. It might help slow down the murdering motherf****** that have been killing and maiming Iraqis and Americans.

And if George Galloway or Michael Moore is out there all I can say is that if you feel the loss too much you can always go over there and join the insurgency and tell the first Marine you meet all about it.

Jun 3, 2005 - 4:43 pm 11. Buddy Larsen:

Ya gotta love Rummy’s warning. Even tho he used a preposition to end a sentence with.

Jun 3, 2005 - 4:54 pm 12. PeterUK:

I don’t believe someone didn’t keep a bit back to claim the reward with.

Jun 3, 2005 - 4:57 pm 13. Rick Ballard:

I just hope they use a prisoner detail to dig him up. If there is a ‘last surprise’, it’s only fair that his buddies find out first.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:00 pm 14. Buddy Larsen:

I’ve heard that the reason those rewards don’t work is the fear of retribution on the family. So, if a reward gets paid, it’s probably on the QT. Just a guess. But, where do you and 100 cousins go to spend the money?

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:03 pm 15. uranari:

Those rewards are too big. Bring’em down to real peoples money, say ten thousand, and the war is almost over (exaggeration, for effect). 25 million dollars?!? C’mon. No one has a big enough wheelbarrow over there to haul that kind of dough back with.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:03 pm 16. RBMN:

We don’t need him. We need his address book.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:05 pm 17. dr. sanity:

Thank you, Rick Ballard. I get carried away.

As to why mental health experts are attracted to this blog…well, I can’t speak for others, but Roger’s honesty and openness about his personal journey from the 60’s to the present indicates an open mind and a great deal of insight.

We mental health professionals value insight and self-awareness–a quality that is mostly lacking in the MSM journalists and the left in general.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:11 pm 18. Rick Ballard:

Uranari,

The right intelligence play would be to let slip that the reward was collected by the Zarqawi gsng member who shot him – or something along those lines.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:11 pm 19. PeterUK:

Buddy,

What on earth would anyone want with 100 cousins?

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:15 pm 20. PeterUK:

Rick,

It would be useful to finger one of his putative replacements.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:18 pm 21. uranari:

“What on earth would anyone want with 100 cousins?”

I once meant someone from the backwoods of…..I’ll stop.

Never a problem finding a person to spend quality time with?

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:20 pm 22. PeterUK:

Uranari,

With $25 mil there is no problem at all finding someone to spend quality time with,you just don’t want 100 cousins playing gooseberry.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:24 pm 23. Buddy Larsen:

Arkansas, Uranari. Only 5 last names in the state.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:24 pm 24. Rick Ballard:

You’re welcome, Dr. Pat. It’s good to know that Roger is the Abby Normal one here. Confirms what the voices tell me.

Peter – Collect 25 mil and you’ll find out how many ‘cousins’ you have. I thinks it’s better to just say “senior associate” of Zarqawi than name someone. Makes for more interesting gun fights.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:24 pm 25. PeterUK:

Rick,

I did wonder if some of those internet claims to leadership were a spoiling operation just stir things up.

Might be useful to say that th $250mil Zarqawi stole is nowhere to be found.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:29 pm 26. uranari:

Five? That’s two more since my last visit there. Or was that another state?

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:31 pm 27. Buddy Larsen:

Well, it shore warn’t Texas, podnuh!

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:36 pm 28. Buddy Larsen:

I have heard that, that the rewards are too big, they’re beyond imagining, and thus frightening.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:38 pm 29. uranari:

Definitely not Texas.

Hills and mountains and lots of woods. A lost tribe we stumbled upon whose members were still speaking Shakespeare’s English. Even PeterUK would’ve had some trouble keeping up. Not one person said “podnuh” I assure you.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:41 pm 30. Skookumchuk:

OT: Meanwhile, closer to home . . .

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:45 pm 31. Jamie Irons:

Rick, Dr. Sanity said:

As to why mental health experts are attracted to this blog…well, I can’t speak for others, but Roger’s honesty and openness about his personal journey from the 60’s to the present indicates an open mind and a great deal of insight.

We mental health professionals value insight and self-awareness–a quality that is mostly lacking in the MSM journalists and the left in general.

I agree with Dr. Sanity.

Also, I would add that Roger has a particularly rare kind of insight and self-awareness: he is serious without taking himself too seriously.

Quite the opposite of the hectoring clerics who comprise most of the MSM

Jamie Irons

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:50 pm 32. Buddy Larsen:

Lotta wilderness still, in USA. There’s nothing between Amarillo and the North Pole but a bobwar (ok, barbed wire) fence. But even high-density Japan has many empty places, right? The northern islands? (last o/t, I promise)

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:50 pm 33. Buddy Larsen:

I think the shrinks come here because they’re needed here. No, really, the host does a have a nice-guy, fair but no fool, persona.

Jun 3, 2005 - 5:55 pm 34. Jamie Irons:

Skookumchuk:

…Jason Merrigan, who now goes by the name Yassin Abdourahman…

This kind of name change is, in my book, prima facie evidence of felonious intent.

Jamie Irons

Jun 3, 2005 - 6:00 pm 35. Skookumchuk:

Jamie Irons:

Yeah. And the gas masks were a nice touch.

Jun 3, 2005 - 6:02 pm 36. uranari:

[Buddy,

Most of Japan is still mountains and trees. Seventy percent? Have to look that up. High density in part because so much of it is uninhabitable mountains filled with trees. Did I mention the mountains and trees? ]

And your point about the money, I agree with completely, and not just because I made it too. A two-tier track? 25 million reward so they can play games like Rick was promoting. But some guy on the corner with a few thousand in his pocket to spread around is more important, is it not? I’m sure this is happening. And another reason why getting the Iraqis into this is the only answer. Language. Language. Language. You can’t do the wink, wink, nudge, nudge with a translator.

Jun 3, 2005 - 6:08 pm 37. uranari:

…translator in tow.

Jun 3, 2005 - 6:10 pm 38. Barry Dauphin:

I’d second (or third?) the comments of Dr. Sanity and Jamie. Also Roger seems genuinely interested in why people do what they do and think what they think without using this information as an “excuse” nor Orprahrizing it. Good novelists are good psychologists in their own way since they are invested in showing us often hard-to-discern motivations, feelings and beliefs via their characters and showing the multiple possibilities of human experience.

For me, it’s also that Roger is favorably disposed to psychoanalysis (my way of working with others) when that perpsective often receives a beating in many quarters. And another thing…I regularly am impressed with the thinking of many of the regular commenters and look forward to reading them almost as much as reading Roger.

Jun 3, 2005 - 6:31 pm 39. Jamie Irons:

Barry Dauphin:

So, you’re an analyst?

(Sounds like that hoary Jewish joke with the punch line, “So, you’re single?”)

I was privileged to be the student and later the friend of of the late, great Robert Stoller.

Jamie Irons

Jun 3, 2005 - 6:53 pm 40. PJ:

I wish him a long purgatory, filled with the souls of those whom he killed.

God, I hope he was in pain.

Jun 3, 2005 - 7:00 pm 41. PeterUK:

I shoild like to see him in a Heironimus Bosch landscape for ever.

Jun 3, 2005 - 7:10 pm 42. Barry Dauphin:

Jamie

Although I’m not as well versed in Stoller’s writing as I ought to be, he seemed to be a significant thinker. It’s great that you were able to work with him.

I’m reluctant to say I’m a “psychoanalyst.” I deliberately chose not to educate myself via the institute route and instead pursued self directed education the old fashioned way (getting into analysis for myself and not “for” the institute, hiring supervisors, writing, study groups, organizational involvement, etc.). So I know those who have graduated from institutes would bridle at my saying, “I’m an analyst.” I understand it and try to accept it and try to worry less about laying claim to the term. Official graduation should have some privileges. There’s plenty of other things in life to worry about.

Jun 3, 2005 - 7:14 pm 43. Jamie Irons:

Barry,

Whatever an analyst might “really” be, sounds like you’re a lot more of one than I am!

You should at least take a good look at Stoller’s wonderful Sexual Excitement [Pantheon, 1979 IIRC, and favorably reviewed in The New York Review of Books of that era (the latter is a publication I rarely look at these days, though I much enjoyed it then, before my transformation into a raving, right-wing hegemon.)]

Note to Charlie (Colorado): No, Charlie, Sexual Excitement is not a how-to manual.

Jamie Irons

Jun 3, 2005 - 8:16 pm 44. Barry Dauphin:

Jamie

Thanks for the recommendation. I will check it out.

And returning to right-wing hegemon issues. I catch a couple of Canadian stations as I live near enough to the border (here in the thriving metropolis of Ypsilanti, MI). I just saw an interview with Zbignew Brezinski. He could barely restrain his condescention for the WoT and the attempts to assist Iraqis in democratizing their country. All his twaddle about rushing it and forcing others to democratize who aren’t ready and that maybe those who push for democracy now really don’t want peace…blah blah blah. He was smugly mocking Bush’s speeches about freedom being the birth right of all as part of American foreign policy “rhetoric” (which an “elite” and “enlightened” man such as he suggests is simply pretty words to make us feel better).

Listen to him for 10 minutes and it’s easy to understand how his realpolitic approach to everything helped embolden al Qaeda in the first place. He still seems to think we’re facing the Soviet Union instead of Islamofascism. Roger’s post about Zarqawi itself suggests the difficulty. Even if he’s dead, it is difficult to qunatify the importance of killing him even though he’s better dead than alive. The virus of Islamofascism is not contained within a few leaders, even if we help our cause by removing them from earth. Old Zbignew seems oblivious to the intentions and potential of the al Qaeda philosophy and that buying off dictators only serves to legimize the very ideas we need to undercut. He doesn’t have the belly for this.

Jun 3, 2005 - 9:16 pm 45. Rick Ballard:

Barry,

I don’t think anyone knows with certainty how important Zarqwi’s death might be. The important thing to me is to believe that the Sunni’s who were hiding him finally betrayed him. The Sunni clans and tribes that have offered shelter to the foreign terrorists in their midst in the vain hope of taking back the country may have changed their tune. Perhaps the Saudi money that has finaced the terrorists has dried up for the moment.

It just feels as if a shift has occured and I can’t really but my finger on it.

Jun 3, 2005 - 9:39 pm 46. Buddy Larsen:

Maybe Stoller will write a new book for us Boomers, “Sexual Exitment”.

Jun 3, 2005 - 9:41 pm 47. Barry Dauphin:

Rick

I certainly hope so. Maybe the recent suicide bombings represent their attempts to throw everything they’ve got before they run out. Enough Sunnis have to say, “Enough of this sh*t. Let’s join the government.” I’d like to see more signs of turning over jihadists and deadenders to coalition forces.

Tolerating the ambiguity inherent to this kind of war is one of the assets we need. However, prior to 9/11 this has not been a recent cultural strength for the US I believe.

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:00 pm 48. Kyda Sylvester:

Zbi has some advice for Democrats:

I think in the heat of debate Democrats should not be nay-sayers only, criticizing. They certainly should not be cheerleaders as some were roughly a year ago. But they should stress a return to fundamentals in so far as American foreign policy is concerned. Above all else in stressing these fundamentals, Democrats particularly should insist that the foreign policy of a pluralistic democracy like the United States should be based on bipartisanship because bipartisanship is the means and the framework for formulating policies based on moderation and on the recognition of the complexity of the human condition.

Bipartisanship, moderation and the recognition of the complexity of the human condition. Yes, indeedy, that’s the ticket all right. And don’t miss this gem of an interview from 1998.

It seems Zbi’s old boss may have stepped in it this time–link

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:04 pm 49. Buddy Larsen:

That was Freud’s def of neurosis, “inability to tolerate ambiguity.” He was pretty definite about that.

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:05 pm 50. richard mcenroe:

Barry ó Where do you think you’re going to hear about that? Newsweek? WAPO?

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:20 pm 51. chuck:

Yeah, Kyda.

Bipartisan policy is nice if you can get it. Otherwise a majority in the congress and possession of the oval office will have to do. Seems to me that the Democrats don’t want a bipartisan policy, they want veto power over Republican policy. Well, tough cookies.

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:28 pm 52. Barry Dauphin:

Richard

You mean Dana Milbank won’t give it to us straight!? What’s the world coming to? Next you’ll be telling me we can’t trust the LA Times either :>). Well I guess there’s always the Huffington Post.

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:32 pm 53. Buddy Larsen:

Carter did the same thing in Venezuela, with the gamed-up Chavez election. The pattern is getting so established, one has to wonder if the whole thing isn’t scripted from the get-go. Not that Carter enters an ambiguous situation and ‘clarifies’ it, but that it is driven into ambiguity because Carter is already set up to go in and resolve what might otherwise blow-back. I swear it wouldn’t surprise me. There is no ego larger, or more embittered, or more easily flattered into cooperation, than Jimmy Carter’s.

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:42 pm 54. Buddy Larsen:

“If we can get Jimmy, we can steal this election!”

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:44 pm 55. Kyda Sylvester:

Buddy–OT–Go see what Jonathan Chait has to say about your “books to read on a long, twilight flight to nowhere”.

Jun 3, 2005 - 10:59 pm 56. Kyda Sylvester:

Yes, Chuck, in the Democratic lexicon bipartisan means “the Republicans agree to do what we want”. Seems like it’s always been so.

Jun 3, 2005 - 11:14 pm 57. Buddy Larsen:

Kyda, the Chait, my fave snip:

“Given that “Unsafe at Any Speed” launched the career of Ralph Nader, who went on to put George W. Bush in the White House, I wonder if conservatives might one day deem it one of the most helpful books of the last two centuries. Possibly even more amusing are the explanations for each book’s inclusion. They read like 10th-grade book reports from some right-wing, bizarro world high school.”

So, there’s these Neocons who are silly sophomores, and yet they form the most consequential movement since the American Revolution? Isn’t this the Machiavellian Chimp argument? Hmm, wrt to mental health, this theme ought to qualify as a clinical symptom.

Jun 4, 2005 - 3:27 am 58. Terrye:

Kyda:

No it means, terrorism what terrorism?

Like my brother said, the right wingers make a bigger deal out of terrorism than it really is, just like they did with communism. They do this to scare people. But the Democrats are too smart for them..that is why Michael Moore is so cool. He is not one of these dummies like Dr. Hanson the silly historian, no siree bob, he is smart. He brought us that great piece of historical narrative F911. I mean who are you going to believe? A Jew with a degree [like say Wolfowitz] or a multi millionaire mockumentary maker famous for “editing” the things people say?

Making a sick old man like Charlton Heston look stupid in one of his last public appearances is something to aspire to.

Oh and then there is another favorite of my brother, that dumbass Maher.

This is why Democrats have no foreign policy, their base is stupid about this stuff. Just plain dumb. I try to be open minded, but people like Moore and Maher are not exactly foreign policy experts and someone needs to point that out to the forces that drive the Democrats so that they can put some distance between themselves and their idiot base.

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:49 am 59. Syl:

Right on, Terrye!

Speaking of ambiguity randomly

Do we have a sample of the Z-man’s DNA?

Last I heard, King Fahd (who died over a week ago maybe maybe not) will soon be released from the hospital.

What was the cause of Arafat’s death?

I don’t know but I choose to believe that Osama has been in Iran for a long time already.

I still like Musharraf.

A certain percentage of the Sunni’s helpful, or at least non-hostile, to the insurgency were intimidated into that position.

And if we here sense ambiguity in several levels of the war, so also does the Arab world even though I’m not quite sure exactly what the term ‘Arab world’ represents.

The only thing I’m sure of is that our MSM is failing Americans by only being adversarial towards the government rather than informing the citizens of the complex issues we are facing. Ambiguities and all.

I think the Democrats are so afraid of the bees, and so horrified we whacked the hive, that they will do anything to get back in power. But the policies that would have kept the hive intact won’t work now that the hive is in pieces. Yet the Dems refuse to change their methods.

Do I have a point? Only that I choose to believe that the Republicans can deal with ambiguites better than the Democrats who don’t believe in the concept no matter how much they criticize ‘You are either with us, or with the terrorists.’

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:33 am 60. Jamie Irons:

What Syl said.

I especially like Syl’s point abut the MSM opposing the government, rather than informing us about the ambiguities (a word in this context rather close in connotation to that old favorite “nuances,” which those who supported the war were said to be too dumb to get) of this war.

Syl is exactly right.

By the way, Victor Davis Hanson’s essay in NRO yesterday is very good on summarizing where we find ourselves.

Jamie Irons

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:07 am 61. Rick Ballard:

Jamie,

There is one element concerning President Bush the VDH (and many others) continually miss. VDH argues for “constant articulation to the American people”. No one seems to notice that W is never, ever profligate reagarding the means he uses to achieve determined ends. When he cut off fundraising for the Presidential run it was the clearest signal ever given that the race was over – and Kerry was still in the starters box. He refused to listen to the chorus of 4-stars on TV clamoring for and additional 200,000 targets be sent in harms way – and the job is being finished as we speak. He doesn’t throw himself in front of every TV camera with a recording light on to blather about his accomplishments – and people listen attentively to what he does say.

W recognizes that the MSM is a more dangerous enemy than the Taliban – and always has been. They have deliberately misinterpret, misquoted and flat lied about what he has said for a very long time. Every word he speaks has the potential to be used against him. He knows that for a fact and limits his speeches accordingly. I hope he continues to do so just as I hope that he continues to severely limit his administration’s contact with enemy propagandists working for the American press.

The ability to act in the face of ambiguity or uncertainty and to act effectively in a manner that addresses more than one facet of any ambiguous situation is vastly more valuable than the ability to recognize that ambiguity exists. Mere recognition will leave one trapped like an ass unable to decide which pile of hay is nearer.

Jun 4, 2005 - 8:58 am 62. Kyda Sylvester:

The problem with MSM is that they buy into all that speak truth to power crap (and, Rick, I guess in MSMspeak deliberate misinterpretation, misquotation and flat out lying is “speaking truth”–I’m reminded of back when Bush was continually and roundly castigated for having characterized Saddam Hussein as an “imminent” threat). I’m not sure that in the entire history of the free press they’ve understood that their mission is to inform and that such information, providing it’s factual and accurate, does the “speaking”.

(As I write this I’m listening to a radio news report informing us that the Pentagon “finally admits” that some incidents involving the Koran occurred at Gitmo. Finally admits. Let’s see, the Southern Command has been investigating allegations of prisoner abuse at Gitmo for some time now. Yesterday, no doubt prompted by the newsweek brouhaha and undeniably following the time honored contrivance of the late Friday disagreeable news dump, it released the report dealing specifically with those allegations involving the Koran. I guess you could stretch that to “finally admits”.)

The DVH piece was excellent, but I agree with Rick that GWB is consistently on message. He speaks of these things at virtually every public appearance. I’m not sure what those who complain that Bush doesn’t use his bully pulpit effectively enough would have him do. Hijack the airwaves perhaps?

Terrye–I was speaking of bipartisanship in general terms. As regards the WOT, you’re absolutely right.

Buddy–Machiavellian Chimp argument. Ha.

Jun 4, 2005 - 12:21 pm 63. Buddy Larsen:

Thanks, Kyda. I either condense, or lose track.

Jun 4, 2005 - 2:32 pm 64. opine6:

I’ll believe it when I see his cold, dead body on a slab.

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:29 pm 65. Buddy Larsen:

Well, the press is saying that he;s become depressed, so I guess he’s learnt his lesson and can go home now.

Rick, your 8:58AM, right, it’s ancient, even made it into the Big Rules as “Thou shalt not bear false witness”. But we’ve all known people like that, that seek contact in order that they can mischaracterize credibly. The prez is lucky to be so visible, just think what would happen nowadays with 19th-century-style private on-the-record interviews: “The president, in our conversation, made eighty-nine separate racist-hate remarks, against all the races of man, but lightened the mood with dirty jokes about senate democrat’s wives and mothers, and ended our session with tales of what he plans to do before he leaves office, in order to get a nuclear war started. Then, he propositioned me, but in the interests of journalistic integrity I will not mention that fact.”

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:48 pm 66. Buddy Larsen:

“As I took leave of the Oval office, he called for his pipe and his fiddlers three, and while dancing a jig and singing “Popeye the Sailor Man,” began feeding baby hamsters to the nest of rattlesnakes he keeps under his desk.”

Jun 4, 2005 - 4:58 pm 67. Buddy Larsen:

“The White House later took issue with some aspects of the report, while admitting that the interview had, as stated in the report, indeed taken place.”

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:26 pm 68. Kyda Sylvester:

I see the sun has passed the yardarm in your neck of the woods.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:32 pm 69. Buddy Larsen:

Oh, if only you knew.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:35 pm 70. Rick Ballard:

I dunno, Kyda. I’m supicious that he might be a ghost for Moran AND Milbank. Maybe Nagourney, too.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:39 pm 71. PeterUK:

Kyda,

The Sun fell over the yardarm and ended up in the pigpen.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:46 pm 72. Buddy Larsen:

Satire is definitely becoming difficult.

Jun 4, 2005 - 5:47 pm 73. Kyda Sylvester:

That’s what Lorne Michaels said about the Monica years. You can see his point…and yours.

Jun 4, 2005 - 6:04 pm 74. PeterUK:

Buddy,

I didn’t know it was satire,I thought you were quoting.

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:01 pm 75. Buddy Larsen:

And, I wouldn’t be that surprised if you weren’t kidding!

Jun 4, 2005 - 7:10 pm

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