75 Comments

1. Rick Ballard:

Where is Obama?

Where is the only other Dem freshman whose name escapes me at the moment?

Jun 17, 2005 - 3:38 pm 2. Buddy Larsen:

Damn, good show, frosh senators! Break the ice! Kick and scream! Revive the Senate!

Jun 17, 2005 - 3:43 pm 3. Buddy Larsen:

Some of Senator Dick’s private cryespondence has come to light:

“Mr. Hector Gutierrez

Gutierrez Bros. Landscaping

Arlington, VA

Dear Mr. Gutierrez:

Nothing could have prepared me for the shock that awaited as I exited the front door of my home early Wednesday morning, where I discovered that your lawn crew had cut a swath of environmental destruction across my yard so horrifying that it only can be compared to the Rape of Nanking. I can scarcely bring myself to describe the killing fields that are my North azalea beds and the brutal degradation and torture suffered by the bluegrass around the locust tree by the rear patio. I am writing to inform you that I have contacted the US Department of Interior to conduct a full independent investigation into Gutierrez Brothers’ actions in this matter.”

There’s more.

Jun 17, 2005 - 4:26 pm 4. Terrye:

Buddy:

How did I know that was Iowahawk?

The sad thing is it is becoming more and more difficult to parody these people.

Sometimes I wonder if support for the war is down because of the suicide bombers or because people are so sick of listening to people like Durbin that they just want it to all go away.

Jun 17, 2005 - 4:32 pm 5. klrfz1:

Here’s the quote from Trent Lott that cost him his leadership position in the Senate -

“I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over all these years, either,”

I believe what Dick Durbin said was much, much worse. Durbin should resign from the Senate, donate all of his current campaign funds to a military charity and move to France.

One good thing. Dick Durbin has made me proud and grateful to be an ex-Democrat once more time. Thanks, Dick!

I bet Durbin will remain in the Senate, will remain a Democratic Party leader, and will become the Republican Party poster child for what the Democrats mean when they say “I support the troops.” He will, however, move to France.

Jun 17, 2005 - 4:38 pm 6. Kyda Sylvester:

I just posted on another thread a link to Hugh Hewitt’s transcript of Durbin’s radio interview from this morning. He continues to deepen and embellish the hole and places the blame for all the blowback on…(guess who).

Jun 17, 2005 - 4:41 pm 7. Kyda Sylvester:

The satirists are in fine form: Under Fire, Durbin Issues Belated Apology

June 17th, 2005

WASHINGTON (APUPI) Amidst growing outrage at his comparisons of US troops to Pol Pot’s regime, Nazis and Stalin’s gulag, Illinois Senator Richard Durbin backed off from his earlier comments today, reading from a prepared statement outside his office that he hadn’t meant to directly compare the situations:

“I now realize that my comments unjustly slandered many people in southeast Asia and other places who were, like the Democratic Party, simply trying to create a better and more equitable society, and did not intend to compare what they did to the horrific atrocities that were occurring, and continue to occur, in Guantanamo. I wish to deeply apologize to those, like International A.N.S.W.E.R, who properly took umbrage at such an odious equivalence. I hope that this apology will finally lay this issue to rest.”

He refused to take any further questions.

Jun 17, 2005 - 5:00 pm 8. Kyda Sylvester:

Where is the only other Dem freshman whose name escapes me at the moment?

Ken Salazar (CO) and, yes, where are they both?

Jun 17, 2005 - 5:21 pm 9. Kevin P:

Roger:

When Sen. Santoram made an analogy of bad logic, by saying that it would be the same as if Hitler claimed that it was unfair to invade Paris because he had been there for two years. He wasn’t saying that anyone’s actions were the same as what Hitler did. He was just saying that the logic that was being used was as absurd if Hitler had made that comment. he apoligized the next day. Virtually every major American newspaper wrote scathing op-eds saying that the Penn. senator was breaching every known senate rule of etiquette and was an example of the loony Christian right. And remember He didn’t claim that anyone’s action was the same as Hitlers actions, he just used it to point out an absurd logic. I agreed he should apologize and Hiler shouldn’t be used even in an offhand way.

Sen. Durbin directly compared the actions at Gitmo to the actions of Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot. His strained explanations do not pass the smell test. McClelland was asked the next day to comment on Durbins comparison of Gitmo to Nazi’s by a member of the foreign press. Al Jazeera has made Durbin their new hero of the month. Yet the MSM is trying to give Durbin a pass, even though his words were far more foul the Santorums line.Where is the Press who ripped the republican use of Hitler, which was far milder then Durbins, now that one of there own has slandered our troops. They are absent because they agree with Durbin

Jun 17, 2005 - 5:21 pm 10. Rick Ballard:

Kyda,

Thanks – yeah, Salazar who sold himself to the people of Colorado as a “moderate”. The point that Klrfz1 (I wonder how that’s pronounced) made is rather poignant. How long did it take the Reps to clobber Lott and have him removed? Weren’t there a couple of left/lib bloggers who fired up the hue and cry after Lott?

When are the Dems and the left/lib bloggers going to have have something to say other than “Good job.” to Little Dick al-Durbin? Around the 12th of Never, I suppose.

Great comment on the other thread, btw.

Jun 17, 2005 - 5:31 pm 11. PeterUK:

It would appear,to me, that Dreben was trying to out howl Howard Dean,unfortunately for Dreben,Dean is a natural and he is not.He is though,a bona fide Dick.

Jun 17, 2005 - 5:32 pm 12. RBMN:

In a radio interview (where Durbin still hangs tough) he says that he’s not blaming the MP’s because after all, they’re “just following orders.” No, he’s not anti-military…. Durbin, what a dirtbag…..

Jun 17, 2005 - 5:37 pm 13. Rick Ballard:

House applies tourniquet to UN’s wallet.

Let’s hope Japan follows suit.

Jun 17, 2005 - 5:40 pm 14. klrfz1:

Rick Ballard -

I think it’s pronounced like “clear-fizz”. The one (1) at the end is silent. Like my brain most days.

Jun 17, 2005 - 5:49 pm 15. c:

Let other party members do the dirty work and claim bystander status, or afraid to confront a fellow Dem who’s done bad? Cowardly in either event, but refusing to immediately denounce Durbin only underscores a certain lack of character and and Presidential timber. From The Washington Times:

“Several Democrats ducked the furor yesterday. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, New York Democrat, declined to comment, saying she had not heard Mr. Durbin’s speech. When a reporter read the passage to her, she declined again.

The offices of Democratic Sens. John Kerry of Massachusetts and Joe Lieberman of Connecticut did not answer calls for comment.”

Jun 17, 2005 - 6:03 pm 16. Kyda Sylvester:

David Gerlenter has an op-ed in today’s LAT that uses Senator Dick to shine light on yet another pressing problem:

To forget your own history is (literally) to forget your identity. By teaching ideology instead of facts, our schools are erasing the nation’s collective memory. As a result, some “expert” can go on TV and announce (20 minutes into the fighting) that Afghanistan, Iraq or wherever “is the new Vietnam”–and young people can’t tell he is talking drivel.

He concludes:

If you are proud of this country and don’t want its identity to vanish, you must teach U.S. history to your children. They won’t learn it in school. This nation’s memory will go blank unless you act.

And, while we’re asking where are they, where is John McCain?

Jun 17, 2005 - 6:07 pm 17. Old Dad:

Warning: Bitter and cynical comment!

While I agree with the general tenor of the froshsenators, this joint statement smacks of timidity and general political whoremongering. I find our colleague from Florida particularly galling. In the words of the poet, “there is some sh*t I will not eat.”

An honest Senator would not call for censure, or resignation, he’d call for the son of a b*tch to be tarred and feathered.

God I miss our founders. There was a day when a deserving Senator could be caned in the well of the Senate.

Mind you, I’m not suggesting that our esteemed colleague from Illinois should suffer such a fate, but I do suggest that the steaming pile of crap, the minority whip of the Senate of the United States of America, be identified as such.

Jun 17, 2005 - 6:19 pm 18. c:

Kyda, Didn’t McCain experience real torture at the hand of bona fide “totalitarians”? He of all people should speak up about AI and Dems making sickening and ahistoric comparisons.

Jun 17, 2005 - 6:21 pm 19. Rick Ballard:

Kyda,

McCains waiting in Graham’s office with DeWine. As soon as the polling data is in they’re going to triangulate a moderate centrist position on sedition. Then, if Sen. Byrd signs off on it, they’ll issue a carefully worded and uplifting joint statement.

Jun 17, 2005 - 6:21 pm 20. Steven Mitchell:

Rick, you’d owe me a keyboard or monitor after that McCain crack. But fortunately I never partake of any beverage while reading comments here.

Jun 17, 2005 - 6:51 pm 21. hepwa:

Where are the freshman senators expressing their outrage at Ed Klein’s book insinuiating that Bill Clinton raped his wife and this was how his child was conceived. It’s advertised on this very blog! Hypocrisy all around…

Jun 17, 2005 - 7:02 pm 22. c:

Oh, yes, hepwa. Same thing. Klein is a leading Republican Senator who charged President Clinton with sadism and atrocities on the level of the Khmer Rouge, Nazi Germany and the Soviets.

Your making an equivalence between Senator Durbin’s slander of our military from the Senate floor and some book writer’s insinuation about a former President’s personal life is just so…Democrat and Progressive of you.

Jun 17, 2005 - 7:23 pm 23. Buddy Larsen:

Yes, hepwa…really…pretty dumb.

Jun 17, 2005 - 7:25 pm 24. PeterUK:

I would say that the difference is that, if the book is untrue the Clintons can sue for libel, but trashing those with their lives on the line and no right of reply is despicable.

Jun 17, 2005 - 7:29 pm 25. Kyda Sylvester:

Moral relativism and the left. Nobody does it better.

Jun 17, 2005 - 7:33 pm 26. Rick Ballard:

like Einstein was “pretty smart”

Jun 17, 2005 - 7:34 pm 27. Kyda Sylvester:

Mind you, I’m not suggesting that our esteemed colleague from Illinois should suffer such a fate…

Oh, I don’t know, Old Dad. I could get behind a caning in the well of the Senate.

Jun 17, 2005 - 7:36 pm 28. klrfz1:

hepwa

“There has never been an administration, I don’t believe, in our history more intent upon consolidating and abusing power to further their own agenda. Whether it’s the right to organize and be part of the American labor movement … whether it’s the right to be able to be have a choice when it comes to the most private and intimate decisions that a woman has to make, whether it is to protect the environment – whatever it is that we slowly but surely built up during the 20th century, this current administration and their allies in Congress want to turn the clock back on all of that,” said Senator Clinton.

Hypocrite right back at ya, boron.

Jun 17, 2005 - 7:39 pm 29. Terrye:

hepwa:

Apples and oranges and besides so far as I know Klein is not some raving neo con. He wrote for Vanity Fair and the New York Times Magazine did he not?

And btw if the Dems came out and professed outrage because Kitty what’s her face’s book alleged Bush was doing cocaine at Camp David I missed it.

Jun 17, 2005 - 7:41 pm 30. Rick Ballard:

Peter,

Ed Klein was editor-in-chief of the NYT Magazine for eleven years, he worked for Newsweek and writes now for Vanity Fair, he’s a graduate of Columbia’s Graduate School of Journalism.

The odds of him being a right-winger are precisely the same as of me winning the Triple Crown next year.

There will be no libel suit.

Hey – maybe we should all do a head tilt and make little signs that say “I’m sorry you’re an idiot.” Might cheer him up.

Jun 17, 2005 - 7:42 pm 31. Knucklehead:

Mr. Ballard,

I have neglected to say this for some time now. You sir, are awesome. (And good luck with your 2006 quest for the Triple Crown.)

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:03 pm 32. Buddy Larsen:

Clearfizz-Won, I’ve heard Hillary’s prime-Demo ‘don’t let them turn back the clock’ line so much, I just wonder, is it ALWAYS bad to turn back the clock? What if your ass catches on fire, wouldn’t it be okay to turn back the clock to before it ignited?

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:07 pm 33. Kyda Sylvester:

Well, which Triple Crown? One is at least within the realm of possibility.

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:08 pm 34. Rick Ballard:

Derby/Preakness/Belmont – I don’t do team sports.

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:13 pm 35. Buddy Larsen:

Triple Crown is also a brandy cocktail, with i believe a sweet liquor and something else, maybe a pepsi.

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:15 pm 36. Kyda Sylvester:

Well, okay then, there’s absolutely no chance that Klein’s a right-winger. Whew.

Senator Dick Regrets if Remarks Misunderstood

On Friday, Durbin tried to clarify the issue. “My statement in the Senate was critical of the policies of this Administration, which add to the risk our soldiers face,” he said in a statement released Friday afternoon. “I have learned from my statement that historical parallels can be misused and misunderstood. I sincerely regret if what I said caused anyone to misunderstand my true feelings: Our soldiers around the world and their families at home deserve our respect, admiration and total support.”

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:30 pm 37. Buddy Larsen:

Yeh…lordy, if he’d been a right-winger…well…that would mean Durbin was like totally cool to pay tribute to Osama.

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:35 pm 38. Buddy Larsen:

Really, if hepwa gets to vote, why can’t my 15 yr old daughter? I mean, age may not be the best threshhold for suffrage, if you (*wink*) get my drift.

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:40 pm 39. Rick Ballard:

al-Durbin is from Illinois. Suffrage in Illinois is a mystical matter. Age, physical and mental status play no part in Illinois suffrage. Neither does the ability to breathe. They truly honor the dead there.

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:52 pm 40. Kyda Sylvester:

Sen Dick didn’t mean to malign the members of our military, only their commander-in-chief.

Can someone tell me why it would be perfectly acceptable to compare the current president–and by extension all of us who support him–and his administration to Hitler, Stalin and Pol-Pot? Is that considered the reasonable, measured political discourse suitable for the WGDB?

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:54 pm 41. Kevin P:

Roger:

You must be slipping. If all you rate is a bush league troll like hepwa things must be bleak.I often go to the Senate for book reviews.

Jun 17, 2005 - 8:57 pm 42. Buddy Larsen:

Nancy Pelosi is a better retractor than Dick Durbin.

Jun 17, 2005 - 10:11 pm 43. Terrye:

I see so now it is not that the soldiers are bad, but Bush is Hitler. Well that is progress.

Jun 17, 2005 - 10:46 pm 44. ed:

Hmmm.

I might be wrong on this, and I certainly hope I am, I don’t think “Turban” Durbin is going to apologise. The lefty crowd is fired up and thinks they’ve got a smoking gun in the Downing Street Memo. Right now they think they’ve tasted blood and they’re crying out for more. This is why Durbin went and dumped on the military.

Frankly I think basing an argument on the writing style of a junior official of a foreign government describing a meeting attended by someone else a week previous, is a bit ridiculous.

But I think we should all expect things to get very very nasty, very very quickly, before it all goes ass-over-elbows for the Democrats. With the level of paranoia in the left over Bush, I wouldn’t be too surprised if the more extreme members of the left start forming domestic terror groups. The current domestic terror groups are all lefties, and the previous set were all lefties.

A lot of fruitcakes are frothing at the mouth over all this nonsense.

Jun 17, 2005 - 11:01 pm 45. gumshoe:

“I wouldn’t be too surprised if the more extreme members of the left start forming domestic terror groups. The current domestic terror groups are all lefties, and the previous set were all lefties.”

-ed

not to put too fine a point on it,

but to which political wing would you assign Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols??

i don’t think either wing’s extremes

have a monopoly rationality.

sorta the nature of extremes,hey?

the left’s recent rhetoric

and lack of historical perspective

certainly seem to be pointing it

towards the tar pits,tho.

i’d agree there.

-gumshoe

Jun 18, 2005 - 3:52 am 46. Terrye:

gumshoe:

Terry and Tim were not Republican Senators.

Jun 18, 2005 - 4:05 am 47. Terrye:

ed:

I read somewhere [I think it was little green footballs], that the Times online had published another memo, this one authenticated, dated the same time and stating that a final political decsion for war had net been made.

I have read the Downing street memo and it is absurd to believe there is anything impeachable there. In fact I would say it could be used to support Bush just as easily as attack him.

But the other memo is high level and authentic and it makes it plain that military preparations were underway but there was still a chance something might happen to stop it.

BTW I am sure that Clinton had the Pentagon draw up war plans for the invasion of Iraq when he had the Iraqi liberation Act passed. It seems to me that the decision making process started in 1998, not 2001.

Juan Willimas [on Brit Hume] said that some Democrats were distancing themselves from a lot of this because the loonier members of the party were making weird remarks about Jews. He said Dean even apologized for some of it. You can not argue with crazy people.

Jun 18, 2005 - 4:16 am 48. gumshoe:

so Terrye…at the risk of sounding like i’m defending Durbin and his recent comments,

your saying he’s gonna leave the Senate

and start a domestic left-wing terror group?

or did i misunderstand you?

Jun 18, 2005 - 4:27 am 49. David Thomson:

ìHe said Dean even apologized for some of it. You can not argue with crazy people.î

The Drudgereport is highlighting Howard Deanís condemnation of the radical Leftís anti-Semitism. He deserves our thanks and encouragement to continue addressing this issue. However, doesnít Dean realize that these views are held by a very high percentage of the Democratic Partyís national membership? It might even be the mainstream opinion of the party.

I have been arguing for well over a year that we need a number of studies dealing with the opinions of Democrats concerning Israel. It is my adamant conviction that these polls were not taken last year to protect John Kerry. The truth would have ended his campaign. Nothing since then has changed my mind.

Jun 18, 2005 - 4:45 am 50. Rick Ballard:

“It might even be the mainstream opinion of the party.”

David,

I doubt that polling would support that possibility. Liberals don’t even constitute the mainstream of the Dem party. The mainstream is constituted by rent seakers under the delusion that the “government” is a source of wealth rather than an inhibiting factor to the accumulation of wealth. It may be that the mainstream Dems could be easily turned to anti-semitism by the ministrations of the obviously and outrageously anti-semitic liberal leadership of the party but they have not, as yet, been indoctrinated to add ‘Jew’ as an epithetical adjunct to ‘rich’.

I would agree completely that those describing themselves as “liberal” (less than 20% of the total) are more likely than not to be anti-semites but they are not the mainstream and never shall be. Certainly the self proclaimed “liberals” provide what passes for the intellectual leadership of the party and Ms. Hillary! is rather famous for using FJB as a common descriptor when referring to Jews but she has never been mainstream either.

I think it much safer to say that “the leadership of the Democratic Party is deeply anti-semitic” than to refer to the mainstream in that manner. The mainstream just want their pockets filled and are silly enough to believe that government is a pocket filler rather than a pocket picker.

Jun 18, 2005 - 6:37 am 51. Buddy Larsen:

David, what they are doing wrt Israel–according to what I’ve seen of this new Downing Street Memo offensive–is to play OIF as an ad-hoc USA/Israel conspiracy to take over the mideast.

It’s the ‘flip’, using the fact that OIF indeed damaged the Intifada, and then ignoring the entire half-century of non-stop jihad against Israel, and emphasizing only that OIF indeed took a little pressure off Israel, to cast the war into an invasion of the sovereign nation of Iraq.

These are not a bunch of college commies, these are members of the United States Congress; the congressional caucus that demonstrated outside the White House the other day.

We’re only a whisper away from madness here. Next, it’ll be calls for a congressional investigation of Mossad, on the grounds that since Israel now has an shooting ally, she must have been responsible for 911.

Thus neatly cutting from the picture all the decades full of acts of terror and war against USA and Israel, and turning the world on to renewed Arafatism, now legitimized by the US Congress.

This is so depressing, so utterly bereft of all the benefits offered by the lessons of history, it’s almost as if mankind can never ever learn anything, anything at all.

Jun 18, 2005 - 7:08 am 52. Charlie (Colorado):

Derby/Preakness/Belmont – I don’t do team sports.

Just horsin’ around, are you?

Jun 18, 2005 - 7:56 am 53. Buddy Larsen:

…just being jockeyular….

Jun 18, 2005 - 8:01 am 54. Kyda Sylvester:

Senator Dick has new regrets posted at his website:

“More than 1700 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq and our country’s standing in the world community has been badly damaged by the prison abuses at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. My statement in the Senate was critical of the policies of this Administration which add to the risk our soldiers face.”

“I will continue to speak out when I disagree with this Administration.”

“I have learned from my statement that historical parallels can be misused and misunderstood. I sincerely regret if what I said caused anyone to misunderstand my true feelings: our soldiers around the world and their families at home deserve our respect, admiration and total support.”

Notice how neat and tidy it all is. First para reiterates his concern, justifies his outrage and then attempts to take the heat off by mischaracterizing his previous statement. Second para speaks to his courage and integrity. And the third provides just the bearest hint of mea culpa, not for anything he may have said but for what we may have misunderstood. His closing sentence explains how we should have interpreted his remarks.

He must have been getting a lot of heat from fellow Dems (and John McCain) who could not fend off comment for much longer. Now they can issue a statement to the effect of: Senator Durbin recently made some remarks on the floor of the Senate that some have interpreted as being critical of our armed forces. He regrets that some people may have misconstrued the meaning of those remarks and has apologized. We have accepted his apology. Now let’s get back to work for the American people.

Why, I wonder, does the old Cole Porter song Miss Otis regrets that she cannot lunch today, Madame keep running through my head?

Jun 18, 2005 - 8:39 am 55. c:

A better apology:

“More than 1700 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq and our country’s standing in the world community has been badly damaged by rhetorical abuses by me and my lib/leftist ilk in the Dem Party, the UN, AI, and al-Jazeera.”

Best:

“More than 1700 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq and some of these and future casualties may be linked to our country’s standing in the world community being badly damaged by the rhetorical abuse from anti-American, anti-military and anti-Bush propagandists, to include the likes of me.”

Oddly enough, when Durbin said, “My statement in the Senate was critical of the policies of this Administration which add to the risk our soldiers face”, he was very close to being right. Just tweak it to, “My statement in the Senate was critical of the policies of this Administration, which adds to the risk our soldiers face.”

Jun 18, 2005 - 10:10 am 56. Buddy Larsen:

Ah, song titles, strange, but “Mood Indigo” has been running thru my mind of late.

Jun 18, 2005 - 10:15 am 57. PeterUK:

Wouldn’t it be better if Senator Dreben had said he had lunch with Senator Kennedy and picked up the wrong glass…after that everything was a blur.

Terribly sorry.

Jun 18, 2005 - 10:27 am 58. ed:

Hmmmm.

“not to put too fine a point on it,

but to which political wing would you assign Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols??”

Are you denying that there is an increasing number of people on the left who believe that armed violence is becoming the answer?

And quite frankly what about McVeigh or Nichols that puts them in the Right? Other than that characterization by the MSM? I’d like you to prove that McVeigh and/or Nichols are in fact right-wing, and provide links please.

Jun 18, 2005 - 10:29 am 59. Buddy Larsen:

I caught that, too, Ed. An echo of Herr Schicklegruber as a “Rightist”.

Jun 18, 2005 - 10:37 am 60. JB:

“Are you denying that there is an increasing number of people on the left who believe that armed violence is becoming the answer?”

Yeah, the cognitive dissonance among the gun control happy left is simply astounding.

I hope they truly grok what they’re getting into if they choose this path — this is not a fight they’re going to win and they will lose everything in the process.

Jun 18, 2005 - 4:25 pm 61. gumshoe:

Hmmmm.

“not to put too fine a point on it,

but to which political wing would you assign Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols??”

Are you denying that there is an increasing number of people on the left who believe that armed violence is becoming the answer?

And quite frankly what about McVeigh or Nichols that puts them in the Right? Other than that characterization by the MSM? I’d like you to prove that McVeigh and/or Nichols are in fact right-wing, and provide links please.

____________________________

why would i seek to “prove that”

to you,ed?

i asked a question.

i don’t recall news stories relating

Nichols and or McVeigh quoting from Das Capital.

maybe the left-right polarity

doesn’t apply to them at all.

that was also part of my question:

the issue was domestic terrorism.

“Are you denying that there is an increasing number of people on the left who believe that armed violence is becoming the answer?”

as i don’t wade into Democratic Underground

to drink the kool-aid,i wouldn’t know.

you got some sources for that one?

i don’t think a “rational center”

and “moral equivalence”

occupy the same position.

Homo homini lupus.

Jun 18, 2005 - 7:07 pm 62. hepwa:

I’ve listened to Dick Durbin’s comments in their entirety and can fully appreciate where he draws his comparisons, even if they come across as inflammatory. Maybe, in a forum as distinguished as the Senate, it could have been said differently.

No progressive really believes that the actions of the few in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib should paint the entire military, but that doesn’t mean the abuses shouldn’t be public and those responsible held to account.

Can you really disagree with that? Do you really think the words of one Senator can do more damage to the American reputation abroad than the actions of your administration? Do you really believe the deaths of 1700 of your soldiers, the wounding of 40,000 more and the 100,000 Iraqi casualties is less cause for outrage?

Lastly, Buddy Larsen, I don’t get to vote because I’m a Canadian, but I do love your country, have many great American friends (I helped a lot of them house-hunting here after your last election) and truly hope your fifteen year old daughter enjoys her adult years as a citizen of a country that is respected and has restored its moral standing in the world.

Jun 18, 2005 - 7:14 pm 63. Buddy Larsen:

hepwa, please, Durbin fed the enemy vitamins, and your characterization of the war is as if Lincoln had just decided to invade the south, there were no slaves to free, nor union to preserve, just the Lincoln administration decided to invade the south, and get all those young men killed for no reason other than some personal problem he had in his head. Please, have a little more respect for the brains inside the heads of those troops whose falling you lament. They were fighting for something, and they knew exactly what it was, what it is. If they can give up their lives for it, surely you can do a little critical thinking on it.

Jun 18, 2005 - 9:09 pm 64. Buddy Larsen:

And, anyone with such a feel-good, cheap n’ easy lopsided view of the issue, can’t possibly have any notion at all of what this nation’s moral standing is. What you’re talking about is getting inside the cover of people like those who run your Liberal Party, shutting down their great gas-baggery about “moral standing” by joining the snake-dance down to hell.

Jun 18, 2005 - 9:14 pm 65. Rick Ballard:

Buddy,

Some Canadians look up to the French. ‘Nuff said.

Jun 18, 2005 - 9:21 pm 66. Kyda Sylvester:

Well, thanks for your good wishes, hepwa. How many more houses do you think you can hunt up? Because there are lots more people we’d like to send your way. And listen, if you want people to take you seriously, you hafta stop throwing out the “40,000 wounded” and “100,000 Iraqi casualties” memes. I know both sit high atop the lefty hit parade, but each has been dealt with and discredited exhaustively. Despite what Lenin may have told you, a lie told often enough is still a lie.

Rick Ballard, now you’re just being mean.

Jun 18, 2005 - 9:32 pm 67. Buddy Larsen:

The Canadian Liberal party,

neck-deep in the Oil-for-Food scandal,

which literally and directly stole food from the mouths of babes,

lectures the USA

(freer–at great cost–of fifty-five million slaves in two terror nations of the mideast),

on the subject of

“moral standing”?

I say, go to hell, and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Jun 18, 2005 - 9:43 pm 68. Rick Ballard:

Sounds reasonable.

Jun 18, 2005 - 10:13 pm 69. Buddy Larsen:

Sorry, hepwa, you have a right to your opinions, it was late last night, grouchy got me, didn’t mean to be so harsh. Used to vacation on your side of Rainy Lake, love Canada, meant no diss. But really, the fighting troops deserve more than your pity.

Jun 19, 2005 - 9:40 am 70. hepwa:

I wouldn’t presume to speak for the Canadian Liberal Party any more than I’d expect a clear-thinking American to speak for theirs. I have no problem criticizing my government and you shouldn’t be scared to criticize yours.

As far as casualty numbers go, I haven’t seen them discredited exhaustively, but am willing to review whatever statistics you can link me to. And if those numbers are wrong and only one third of the truth, isn’t it still an outrage?

Kyda, I don’t know where the “Lenin” reference comes from (are you implying that I’m a “Commie”? that one’s a little old, don’t you think?). But, you’re right, a lie told enough times is still a lie. Aren’t you tired of being lied to by your government? How much more are you willing to put up with?

And, finally (for now), is anyone willing to respond to the question in my previous post? Should the abuses of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo be made public and those responsible held to account? Don’t you think that would improve the image of the U.S. military abroad? If you don’t think it matters, Buddy Larsen, then you’re the one that needs to do some critical thinking.

Jun 19, 2005 - 9:53 am 71. Rick Ballard:

hepwa,

You know about Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo because of military investigations of allegations. People have been “held responsible” for Abu Ghraib, they have been tried, found guilty and sentenced to prison. The allegations concerning Guantanmo do not rise to the level of “crimes” and any contraventions of standard treatment have been appropriately dealt with.

All of the above has been reported by officers and officials of the US government. The fact that you are seemingly unaware of those reports is simply additional evidence of the depth of your ignorance.

Why don’t you work on the image of the Canadian fighting man? Hitchhiking to the battlefield has made him rather a pathetic figure these days. Given the fact that Canadians have had honorable fighting forces in the distant past I would think your time better spent trying to figure out what happened to Canda’s image.

Kyda’s reference was to you being an idiot – although Lenin did refer to “useful” idiots and I don’t think you make the cut.

Jun 19, 2005 - 10:40 am 72. Buddy Larsen:

No, it matters. That’s what makes you so frustrating, hepwa. You’ve been given a huge gift by the very people you criticize. And you refuse to acknowledge, to give an inch, that the military expedition may in fact be a necessary and thought-through action. The terror war being fought against the West is the real story, and you ignore it in favor of exploding over the odd anecdotal sub-issues that happen to entertain your existing prejudices.

This is especially despicable in that you get to simultaneously ignore your enemy (who will kill you if your imaginary enemy Bush quits fighting too soon) while letting someone else do the dirty work of protecting you, while you take advantage of the opportunity to treat yourself to an exalted, airy, lofty, feel-good, above-it-all position that you have not earned and could not posture to were it not for real people enabling your entire lifestyle for you–and getting no thanks, but rather hatred, for the privilege.

Let’s play a game. It’s Sept 12 2001 and you’re George Bush. What to do? Top 5 items on your list.

Jun 19, 2005 - 10:51 am 73. Buddy Larsen:

Let me imagine your practical, real-life list:

1) Make Peace

2) Make Everyone Happy

3) Make All Problems Go Away

4) Make Humankind Immortal

5) Make Everybody Love Everybody

Jun 19, 2005 - 11:04 am 74. PeterUK:

Rick

Some Canadians are French.

Jun 19, 2005 - 12:17 pm 75. Kyda Sylvester:

Yeah, what they said.

There was a time when Canada stood for something in this world and her fighting men were second to none. Juno Beach, Battle of Britain, France and Flanders, Korea are but a few examples. Rick Ballard is right, you should spend less time castigating those who cover your now sorry ass and more time reflecting on how and why that ass degenerated into its sorry state.

Jun 19, 2005 - 1:07 pm

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