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	<title>Comments on: London!</title>
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		<title>By: PeterUK</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57800</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The tube bombing follows the route of the Circle Line,it is easy to get on and off anywhere round central London.The other bombings follow the route of the Piccadilly Line,which has an extension out to Heathrow.Russell Square and Tavistock Square are only a short walk from Euston and Kings Cross St Pancras,it may be that the bomber was not going to the tube stations by bus but leaving one.

Rather than enumerate the many intersections here is a map of the Tube,http://www.multimap.com/map/tube.cgi?client=public&amp;tsize=500&amp;tmap=to

It is obvious that a bomb with a timer could have been placed on the trains by anyone travelling on other intersecting routes.

It is easy enough to hop from one line to another,get on and off trains before they leave stations and be going in the other direction in minutes.

The site of the detonation,may not be,therefore,significant.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tube bombing follows the route of the Circle Line,it is easy to get on and off anywhere round central London.The other bombings follow the route of the Piccadilly Line,which has an extension out to Heathrow.Russell Square and Tavistock Square are only a short walk from Euston and Kings Cross St Pancras,it may be that the bomber was not going to the tube stations by bus but leaving one.</p>
<p>Rather than enumerate the many intersections here is a map of the Tube,http://www.multimap.com/map/tube.cgi?client=public&amp;tsize=500&amp;tmap=to</p>
<p>It is obvious that a bomb with a timer could have been placed on the trains by anyone travelling on other intersecting routes.</p>
<p>It is easy enough to hop from one line to another,get on and off trains before they leave stations and be going in the other direction in minutes.</p>
<p>The site of the detonation,may not be,therefore,significant.</p>
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		<title>By: c</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57799</link>
		<dc:creator>c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57799</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;these assholes watch Hollywood movies, CNN and Dick Durbin, and they actually believe that what they see is the real America.&lt;/i&gt;



Katherine, I think you&#039;re right-  our jihad enemies do seem to process reality a bit like grade-schoolers who can&#039;t distinguish the true America from our cinematic fiction and skewed news, and who can&#039;t value the advantages of modernity over medievalism, even though many of them have lived here in the West.  It&#039;s as if they&#039;re living a computer game as players with jambiyas and maces trying to topple a satanic kingdom to re-establish a glorious Caliphate on earth.  All high drama, impossible odds, and tribal fealty.



But then our side has pols, pundits and celebrities who are also out of touch with reality and allowing political style and party belonging to trump common sense.  They treat the WoT as if it were a movie to critique, a video with rewind options, or a TV ballgame for which we get to blithely choose sides.  Real flesh and blood and lives were torn apart yesterday in London. Lives and liberty are bloodied everywhere the Islamists hide or openly hold ground.  Would that our fantasists realize this and stop giving even rhetorical aid to the enemy of enlightened civilization.



Islamists may not be able to rule us with superior strength or ideology directly, but they are succeeding in deepening the dangerous faultlines that already exist within western society between the passivists/pacifists/and PC sympathists, and its defenders... between those who indulge in wishful thinking and don&#039;t believe there&#039;ll be real-life consequences for their posturing or disengagement and the realists who know that this is a real fight to the finish. Maybe it&#039;s a matter of suspension of disbelief in the theater versus the eye-blinking harsh sunlight outside, and some people won&#039;t budge from their cushy seats and darkened room after the show.  We need to bring back ushers!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>these assholes watch Hollywood movies, CNN and Dick Durbin, and they actually believe that what they see is the real America.</i></p>
<p>Katherine, I think you&#8217;re right-  our jihad enemies do seem to process reality a bit like grade-schoolers who can&#8217;t distinguish the true America from our cinematic fiction and skewed news, and who can&#8217;t value the advantages of modernity over medievalism, even though many of them have lived here in the West.  It&#8217;s as if they&#8217;re living a computer game as players with jambiyas and maces trying to topple a satanic kingdom to re-establish a glorious Caliphate on earth.  All high drama, impossible odds, and tribal fealty.</p>
<p>But then our side has pols, pundits and celebrities who are also out of touch with reality and allowing political style and party belonging to trump common sense.  They treat the WoT as if it were a movie to critique, a video with rewind options, or a TV ballgame for which we get to blithely choose sides.  Real flesh and blood and lives were torn apart yesterday in London. Lives and liberty are bloodied everywhere the Islamists hide or openly hold ground.  Would that our fantasists realize this and stop giving even rhetorical aid to the enemy of enlightened civilization.</p>
<p>Islamists may not be able to rule us with superior strength or ideology directly, but they are succeeding in deepening the dangerous faultlines that already exist within western society between the passivists/pacifists/and PC sympathists, and its defenders&#8230; between those who indulge in wishful thinking and don&#8217;t believe there&#8217;ll be real-life consequences for their posturing or disengagement and the realists who know that this is a real fight to the finish. Maybe it&#8217;s a matter of suspension of disbelief in the theater versus the eye-blinking harsh sunlight outside, and some people won&#8217;t budge from their cushy seats and darkened room after the show.  We need to bring back ushers!</p>
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		<title>By: Bostonian</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57798</link>
		<dc:creator>Bostonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57798</guid>
		<description>The blog It Comes In Pints has a rather wonderful tribute to Britain:



http://www.secondbreakfast.net/archives/001995.html



I highly recommend it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The blog It Comes In Pints has a rather wonderful tribute to Britain:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.secondbreakfast.net/archives/001995.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.secondbreakfast.net/archives/001995.html</a></p>
<p>I highly recommend it.</p>
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		<title>By: mika.</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57797</link>
		<dc:creator>mika.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57797</guid>
		<description>&quot;lack of will&quot;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;lack of will&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: mika.</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57796</link>
		<dc:creator>mika.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57796</guid>
		<description>I think as long as these taliban and al queda types are enjoying the sun in places like gitmo and there&#039;s lack the will to quickly execute them, this war will not be won. But there&#039;s always hope that such will change:

.

.

http://www.simaqianstudio.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t1875.html


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think as long as these taliban and al queda types are enjoying the sun in places like gitmo and there&#8217;s lack the will to quickly execute them, this war will not be won. But there&#8217;s always hope that such will change:</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.simaqianstudio.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t1875.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.simaqianstudio.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t1875.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: thibaud</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57795</link>
		<dc:creator>thibaud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57795</guid>
		<description>Good points. But this is about where my ratiocination ends ... Perhaps it&#039;s the (northern) Irish in me but I simply don&#039;t see the logic in slaughtering a very visibly, predictably &lt;b&gt;multicultural&lt;/b&gt; group of anonymous commuters as a way of protesting the Blair government&#039;s decisions. What does this achieve other than to screw up the Edgware Road community&#039;s ability to get to work?



The IRA, thuggish as they are, at least has some strategic coherence, an alignment between a defined political objective and the tactical means of achieving it. For ex., even the Birnmingham pub atrocity was justified as a hit on a &quot;military target&quot; ie a soldiers&#039; hangout. Dumb, but at least there&#039;s an attempt at logic.



With the jihadists, the only logic I can see is that they meant to send a message to Londoners re Hamza. Had it been about Iraq, then a different place and time surely would have made far more sense. Then again, this appears to be the logic of &quot;Viva El Muerte!&quot;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points. But this is about where my ratiocination ends &#8230; Perhaps it&#8217;s the (northern) Irish in me but I simply don&#8217;t see the logic in slaughtering a very visibly, predictably <b>multicultural</b> group of anonymous commuters as a way of protesting the Blair government&#8217;s decisions. What does this achieve other than to screw up the Edgware Road community&#8217;s ability to get to work?</p>
<p>The IRA, thuggish as they are, at least has some strategic coherence, an alignment between a defined political objective and the tactical means of achieving it. For ex., even the Birnmingham pub atrocity was justified as a hit on a &#8220;military target&#8221; ie a soldiers&#8217; hangout. Dumb, but at least there&#8217;s an attempt at logic.</p>
<p>With the jihadists, the only logic I can see is that they meant to send a message to Londoners re Hamza. Had it been about Iraq, then a different place and time surely would have made far more sense. Then again, this appears to be the logic of &#8220;Viva El Muerte!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Wrght</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57794</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Wrght</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57794</guid>
		<description>Katherine,



While you&#039;re sitting on the dock of the bay watching the ships roll in (Otis Redding), I would be more concerned about containers coming from the interior with a dirty bomb that we are not screening.



Simple just run one into the dock blow up a dirty bomb put the Port of Long Beach out of operation for at least 90 days.



Bottom line $34B hit to the US economy.



Rick



I thinks it&#039;s more of slinking out of your rat hole to the tube.  The closer the better.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katherine,</p>
<p>While you&#8217;re sitting on the dock of the bay watching the ships roll in (Otis Redding), I would be more concerned about containers coming from the interior with a dirty bomb that we are not screening.</p>
<p>Simple just run one into the dock blow up a dirty bomb put the Port of Long Beach out of operation for at least 90 days.</p>
<p>Bottom line $34B hit to the US economy.</p>
<p>Rick</p>
<p>I thinks it&#8217;s more of slinking out of your rat hole to the tube.  The closer the better.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Ballard</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57793</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Ballard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57793</guid>
		<description>Thibaud,



You may be right. You might consider that the bombs were time devices and that those who planted them probably did not set the timers on the Underground. Unattended packages draw attention in a very short time on the Underground, so a reasonable supposition would be that the person planting the device would have left the train a maximum of two stops before the place of detonation. That would leave them within a ten minute walk of the blast - and probably less of a walk from their safe house. Do you believe that the safe houses would be far from the Muslim centers? Would a bomber strand himself accross town knowing that the subways and buses would shut down?



Let&#039;s see where they nab the bombers. If they went ground in the Arab section near the bomb blasts the answer will be self-evident.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thibaud,</p>
<p>You may be right. You might consider that the bombs were time devices and that those who planted them probably did not set the timers on the Underground. Unattended packages draw attention in a very short time on the Underground, so a reasonable supposition would be that the person planting the device would have left the train a maximum of two stops before the place of detonation. That would leave them within a ten minute walk of the blast &#8211; and probably less of a walk from their safe house. Do you believe that the safe houses would be far from the Muslim centers? Would a bomber strand himself accross town knowing that the subways and buses would shut down?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see where they nab the bombers. If they went ground in the Arab section near the bomb blasts the answer will be self-evident.</p>
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		<title>By: thibaud</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57792</link>
		<dc:creator>thibaud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57792</guid>
		<description>Rick, c -



&lt;i&gt;The locations involved could also be a matter of &#039;bomb what you know&#039; and where you can fit in without raising suspicion.



&lt;i&gt;An area where you would stick out like a sore thumb&lt;/i&gt;



I can tell you two have never been anywhere near a trading floor in the City of London. Or at Citibank&#039;s offices on the Strand, or Merrill&#039;s offices or any other investment bank where a majority of the traders are Pakistani or Indian. (At Citi the joke was that the trading floor looked like downtown Peshawar).



For a jihadist to &quot;fit in&quot; anywhere in the city of London, all he has to do is don some pinstripes and lose the beard.



As to Occam&#039;s Razor, I believe the controversy within the muslim ranks, and the jihadists&#039; fanatical support for &quot;Captain Hook&quot; Hamza, provides a fairly simple explanation.



Look, if this were about the Iraq War, then there a hundred more logical targets across Britain - bases, government offices, pubs where soldiers hang out (remember the Birmingham pub bombing and other IRA bombings in the 1970s?)... hell, if it has to be on commuter transport, then at least target the hoity-toity neighborhoods where the Yanks and the toffs live, like Hollland Park or Notting Hill (Central Line) or else the West End.



But Edgware Road?!?! Again, it&#039;s like jihadists bombing Jersey City tobacconists instead of the WTC. Makes no sense if the goal is to protest the Blair government&#039;s decisions.&lt;/i&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick, c -</p>
<p><i>The locations involved could also be a matter of &#8216;bomb what you know&#8217; and where you can fit in without raising suspicion.</p>
<p></i><i>An area where you would stick out like a sore thumb</i></p>
<p>I can tell you two have never been anywhere near a trading floor in the City of London. Or at Citibank&#8217;s offices on the Strand, or Merrill&#8217;s offices or any other investment bank where a majority of the traders are Pakistani or Indian. (At Citi the joke was that the trading floor looked like downtown Peshawar).</p>
<p>For a jihadist to &#8220;fit in&#8221; anywhere in the city of London, all he has to do is don some pinstripes and lose the beard.</p>
<p>As to Occam&#8217;s Razor, I believe the controversy within the muslim ranks, and the jihadists&#8217; fanatical support for &#8220;Captain Hook&#8221; Hamza, provides a fairly simple explanation.</p>
<p>Look, if this were about the Iraq War, then there a hundred more logical targets across Britain &#8211; bases, government offices, pubs where soldiers hang out (remember the Birmingham pub bombing and other IRA bombings in the 1970s?)&#8230; hell, if it has to be on commuter transport, then at least target the hoity-toity neighborhoods where the Yanks and the toffs live, like Hollland Park or Notting Hill (Central Line) or else the West End.</p>
<p>But Edgware Road?!?! Again, it&#8217;s like jihadists bombing Jersey City tobacconists instead of the WTC. Makes no sense if the goal is to protest the Blair government&#8217;s decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: klrfz1</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57791</link>
		<dc:creator>klrfz1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 04:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/07/07/london/#comment-57791</guid>
		<description>I just don&#039;t see how Al Queda can win and establish their 13th century caliphate. If every western government surrendered to them tomorrow, could the jihadis actually rule us? They&#039;d have to come out of their caves and sleeper cells to give their commands, giving up their greatest weapon: hiding. Would the U.S. Marines take jihadi orders just because their commander in chief surrenders? Are there really enough jihadis to make us accept being their slaves? I bet there are lots of people who would be willing to walk down the block to shoot at a group of jihadis who were stoning a woman to death because she was raped by one of them. I believe even some of the anti-war moore-ons would rebel against the caliphate once they found out what they were in for. There would be 100 million jihadi rulers, then 50 million and then the survivors would run to hide in their caves again.



In addition, the jihad is primarily a battle against modernity. Even the jihadi rulers would have to give up all the wonders of the modern world. Is that what&#039;s happening now in Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia? I don&#039;t think so.



So my point is that whether the west ends up attacking jihadis, appeasing them, or just flat out surrendering won&#039;t make any difference to the ultimate outcome of the jihad. The jihad will fail. The difference will be in how many people are killed during the jihad. Right?



A lot fewer Americans will die if the jihadis are prevented from acquiring a nuclear device. I wish I could send the Marines into Iran tomorrow.



I hope this isn&#039;t just some more of that damned post ad hoc ergo magneto sum reasoning.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#8217;t see how Al Queda can win and establish their 13th century caliphate. If every western government surrendered to them tomorrow, could the jihadis actually rule us? They&#8217;d have to come out of their caves and sleeper cells to give their commands, giving up their greatest weapon: hiding. Would the U.S. Marines take jihadi orders just because their commander in chief surrenders? Are there really enough jihadis to make us accept being their slaves? I bet there are lots of people who would be willing to walk down the block to shoot at a group of jihadis who were stoning a woman to death because she was raped by one of them. I believe even some of the anti-war moore-ons would rebel against the caliphate once they found out what they were in for. There would be 100 million jihadi rulers, then 50 million and then the survivors would run to hide in their caves again.</p>
<p>In addition, the jihad is primarily a battle against modernity. Even the jihadi rulers would have to give up all the wonders of the modern world. Is that what&#8217;s happening now in Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia? I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
<p>So my point is that whether the west ends up attacking jihadis, appeasing them, or just flat out surrendering won&#8217;t make any difference to the ultimate outcome of the jihad. The jihad will fail. The difference will be in how many people are killed during the jihad. Right?</p>
<p>A lot fewer Americans will die if the jihadis are prevented from acquiring a nuclear device. I wish I could send the Marines into Iran tomorrow.</p>
<p>I hope this isn&#8217;t just some more of that damned post ad hoc ergo magneto sum reasoning.</p>
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