… and that’s saying a lot! But when it comes to absurd non-scandal scandals this one may beat the band. Not only is the media treating as if it were a serious issue with catastrophic implications whether a woman who within days of her “unmasking” as a CIA agent (or not, depending on who you believe or how you define it) appears as a Bond glamour girl consort to her prevaricating husband on the pages of Vanity Fair… now we learn that the whole Grande Scandale may have been createdinternally by the press itself.
Presidential confidant Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he learned the identity of a CIA operative originally from journalists, then informally discussed the information with a Time magazine reporter days before the story broke, according to a person briefed on the testimony.
The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the secrecy of grand jury proceedings, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.
So according to this “source”… and oh boy are we in the world of “sources” here… Rove learned about Plame from Novak. The NYT implies the opposite, or sort of the opposite, claiming Rove said “I heard the same thing” to Novak after the journalist informed the presidential adviser that he (Novak) had heard Plame was a CIA agent (something apparently half of Washington knew anyway… and she only had a desk job in the first place.)
Who knows and who cares? Forget a tempest in a teapot. This is a tempest in a thimble. But that doesn’t stop the likes of Charles Schumer from treating this like Watergate II while people are being blown up in London Tubes. What a fatuous creep!
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92 Comments
1. Ed Poinsett:Reporters from Time and the NYT going to jail to protect Karl Rove? That’s ridiculous on the face of it. Senator Schmearer is hard at work on this non-issue, anything to hang something on the Bush administration. Even the NYT and WaPo are saying that there was probably no crime committed.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/pbs/?id=110006965
When the dems tire of beating this dead horse, I expect we might see a return to Halliburton for more excitement. Don’t turn that dial!
Jul 14, 2005 - 11:36 pm 2. someone:Truly hilarious. An anonymous leak about an anonymous leak. Will this grand jury leaker also be sucked up into Robinson’s investigation?
But I think JPod’s hypothesis — that Miller, and behind her the lying liar Wilson himself, started the whole thing — is looking more and more likely. Who was that ‘[]other member of the news media’ who told Rove about it first? Could it be the one sitting in jail already? Would explain a lot.
Jul 14, 2005 - 11:39 pm 3. varifrank:I actualyl found myself yelling at the TV when this story was talked about tonight.
YELLOWCAKE!
WHERE!
GO!
IT!
I could not care less about how told who what, I want to know where the damn base component to nuclear bombs went and who went with them!
Jul 15, 2005 - 12:12 am 4. Easter Lemming:As I have noted with my posts here I disagree with Roger on this.
Thus was an act of treason, not a tempest in a thimble.
>>>
CIA Identity Leak Far Worse Than Reported
by Warren P. Strobel
Knight Ridder Newspapers
October 11, 2003
WASHINGTON — It’s just a 12-letter name – Valerie Plame – but the leak by Bush administration officials of that CIA officer’s identity may have damaged U.S. national security to a much greater extent than generally realized, current and former agency officials say.
Plame, the wife of former ambassador and Bush critic Joseph Wilson, was a member of a small elite-within-an-elite, a CIA employee operating under “nonofficial cover,” in her case as an energy analyst, with little or no protection from the U.S. government if she got caught.
Training agents such as Plame, 40, costs millions of dollars and requires the time-consuming establishment of elaborate fictions, called “legends,” including in this case the creation of a CIA front company that helped lend plausibility to her trips overseas.
Compounding the damage, the front company, Brewster-Jennings & Associates, whose name has been reported previously, apparently also was used by other CIA officers whose work now could be at risk, according to Vince Cannistraro, formerly the agency’s chief of counterterrorism operations and analysis.
>>>>
The point of the NYT article – not only did Rove leak her to TIME Magazine he confirmed her identity as a CIA agent to Novak. This may or may not be true. It is interesting that Rove is leaking to the NYT about the leaks.
On the AP article remember this is what Rove said to the grand jury. Rumors swirl around that one of the charges that Rove, and don’t forget others, may face is perjury. The other likely ones charges involve revealing confidential information detrimental to the national security of the United States. A charge that I think is not not likely is exposing a covert agent – a highly difficult charge to prove based on the wording of the act even if she had been a NOC agent whose work must be kept secret for years to protect sources, her work, and most importantly the real work of the fake firm she worked at.
This administration put the nationís security in jeopardy for purely partisan means, they revealed the identity of CIA covert agents, put at risk hundreds of people, years of work, and even made it easier for terrorists to obtain wmds. Why are some people defending this?
Jul 15, 2005 - 12:25 am 5. flenser:Roger, just consider this to be like a frothy summer movie, dumb but fun.
Once this is over, the Dems/MSM will be back to their more serious business of trying to undermine the war and the economy. The more time they waste on this, the better.
Jul 15, 2005 - 1:10 am 6. Ray Zacek:What happened to the ethics investigation of Tom Delay? Contrary to Howard Dean’s stated desire, I don’t believe Mr. Delay has gone quietly to Texas to serve his jail time (and for all that, who duct-taped Howard Dean’s mouth?). It seems the media and the Democrats, like a drunk at a shooting gallery in an arcade, shoot at one tin duck and then another without hitting any target.
Jul 15, 2005 - 1:43 am 7. David Thomson:ìThe Plame Rove Affair is One of the Biggest Wastes of Time of My Lifetime…î
The MSM were not wasting their time. This phony scandal was created during an election year. President Bush only won by about three percentage points. His victory should have been in double digits. John Kerry owes the MSM his never ending gratitude for making it so close.
The MSM are desperate to slime and destroy President Bush. This nonsense over Valerie Plame is similar to the Hail Mary pass in football. What do they have to lose? The end is near. These intellectual thugs are losing their influence. Why not throw enough crap at the proverbial fan—and maybe some of it will stick?
ìBut that doesn’t stop the likes of Charles Schumer from treating this like Watergate II while people are being blown up in London Tubes. What a fatuous creep!î
Roger L. Simon is being too kind. Senator Schumer is despicable. Would he torture and murder his opponents? No, I would not go that far. Nonetheless, the man can no longer distinguish between fact and fiction. He is not to be trusted.
Jul 15, 2005 - 2:39 am 8. David Thomson:ìWhy not throw enough crap at the proverbial fan—and maybe some of it will stick?î
Should read:
Why not throw a lot of crap at the proverbial fan? Some of it might stick.
ìWhat happened to the ethics investigation of Tom Delay?î
The MSM humiliated themselves over this fiasco. It turns out that many Democrat politicians received more money from lobbyist Jack Abramoff than Tom DeLay. Senator Barbara Boxer, in particular, was being placed in an extremely awkward position.
Jul 15, 2005 - 2:53 am 9. PeterUK:“Ahmed,what about the woman?” “Beyond reproach Abu,after all she is the Ambassadors wife”
US Ambassador’s wives cannot by definition, be deep cover agents,any more than can any white US citizen,the opposition does not trust any of you.
If Plame was marked out for anything it would be assassinastion or kidnap.
The opposition play by Mafia rules,the slightest doubt and you are gone.
The fact that she arranged for her husband to go to Niger would in itself have aroused suspicion.
Jul 15, 2005 - 4:46 am 10. Terrye:Easter:
You remind me of why I left the Democratic party.
Treason, my ass.
If leaking classified material is not treason this certainly is not.
In fact I would say that what Kerry did all thse years ago comes much closer to constituting treason than anything that happened here. And hell, the Democrats nominated one of the war criminals of the army of Geghis Khan to run for the White House.
Wilson is a liar and if it not for him none of us would even know who Valeri Plame is. So go blame him for wasting resources or whatever.
I said long ago that this whole thing is a media created and media driven farce. The fact that the same people who would happily shut down the CIA if they had their way are worrying about its agents is just too much.
I see that some lefty website [I forget which] put the directions to Rove’s house on the internet and suggested all good liberals go defecate on his lawn.
That is the Demcoratic party of today, mouthy preening Senators and nasty little backstabbers. pity.
Jul 15, 2005 - 5:01 am 11. Rick Ballard:A party propaganda organ reinforcing a negative stereotype concerning the strategist who is preparing to take all of said party’s lunch money one more time in ‘06 is not terribly noteworthy. Nor is focusing on a pol who never has and never will be accused of rising above hack status.
How would PJ Media cover the story? I’m fairly sure that a thousand words could convey all that is “known” concerning the matter. A sidebar on Fitzgerald’s appointment. An examination of how often the CIA refers disclosures to the DoJ. A link to the pertinent statute with an opinion from one of our estimable attorney commenters concerning its specificity.
What else should PJ Media focus upon wrt this story/non-story?
Jul 15, 2005 - 5:11 am 12. Richard Nieporent:Please Easter Lemming, spare us your outrage. It is as phony as this whole Karl Rove affair. First of all, your ignorance is showing when you call this treason. You clearly do not know what the definition of treason is. Second, if you were really concerned about anyone doing harm to the CIA, then you would be outraged by the New York Times exposing a covert CIA operation.
Jul 15, 2005 - 5:19 am 13. Hogarth:Someone help me out here. Perhaps I’m a bit dense, but…
I go to work every weekday. I go to an office building. The office building has the name of the company I work for proudly and boldly emblazoned over the entrance. Anyone could sit in the parking lot and watch me enter the building at 7 am and leave at 4 pm. They could quite easily infer that I work for the company whose name is plainly displayed on the building.
Now, how could the statment “He works for [insert company name here]” possibly be considered “outing” me??
Now, if the statement were “He performs undercover espionage work for that company,” I could see that one could call that “outing.” However, I have not been able to find that type of quote attributed to Rove.
Did I miss something?
Jul 15, 2005 - 5:32 am 14. RBMN:For a covert agent, she had one hell of a cover. She’s is the wife of a former US Ambassador, has attended White House State Dinners with him, and she leaves her house each morning to drive to CIA headquarters in Langley, VA. How did anybody figure it out?
Jul 15, 2005 - 6:04 am 15. PeterUK:Hogarth,
You are supposed to park in the “Deep Cover” car park and dress as a cleaning lady.
Jul 15, 2005 - 6:12 am 16. Hogarth:RBMN -
Hidden in plain sight! How diabolical! It truly did take the evil genius of Rove to peel back the layers of that in-depth cover.
Seriously, though, I feel like I must be missing something here. Can the anti-Bush crowd really be this infantile? As one who strongly believes we need a credible minority party to offset whichever party happens to be in the majority, I think it would be pretty frightening if it were so. I would rather believe that I just haven’t looked at this close enough to see where it wasn’t already patently obvious that Ms. Pussy Galore worked for the CIA.
Jul 15, 2005 - 6:13 am 17. Keith_Indy:And the answer to that question would be, yes they can be that infantile…
Joe Wilson confirms, ON CNN, that his wife was not a covert operative at the time of Novaks column.
While this may not have any bearing on the issue, because if she had covert status 5 years ago, a crime still could have been committed.
But, Rove would have had to know about that status.
So, still no crime has been proven, and in fact, all indications are that no crime was committed.
You investigate a matter because you are not sure if a crime was committed (or partisans are calling for an investigation so loudly they suck up all the air in DC.)
So, saying, after calling for the investigation in the first place, see an investigation is going on so a crime must have been committed, is a specious argument.
Yes, they can be that infantile.
Jul 15, 2005 - 6:27 am 18. Hogarth:Sigh.
And for this kind of drivel our self-fellating media cries out for the need for federal reporter protection laws? This is the kind of insightful and meaningful ‘news’ we could expect from providing them carte blanche protection for anonymous (read: “made up”) sources?
I think not.
Jul 15, 2005 - 6:42 am 19. nittypig:If Rove released the fact that Plame was an undercover agent then he did commit a serious crime. The evidence that he did so is pretty flimsy. Fitzgerald certainly knows this. I’m convinced there is more to this than meets the eye.
How did Rove know that she was an undercover agent? There is no justifiable reason for a political advisor to have access to a list of undercover CIA operatives.
Who is Fitzgerald’s target? Why has Miller been so obstinate?
The following blog has lot’s of interesting thoughts:
http://scyllacharybdis.blogspot.com/2005/03/beneath-plame-faking-classified.html
Were the media co-ordinating it’s coverage of the ‘no uranium from Africa’ story?
Jul 15, 2005 - 6:43 am 20. RBMN:Another thing a “covert” CIA agent doesn’t do, is let her husband go to war with the White House in the editorial pages of the New York Times, and all over TV and radio, about the very subject of her own CIA work–WMD.
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:29 am 21. Fausta:Item: As Roger’s prior post described, Islamofascim is a cult of death.
Item: (via Hans Bricks) The new Iranian president is a terrorist and an executioner, who will head a fascist country that sooner or later (if it hasn’t already) will have nuclear power. The Islamofascist state of Iran will use the nuclear power for peaceful purposes.
Item: Islamofascists believe that peace is only acomplished when there’s total submission to Islam. I believe the Iranians will use nuclear power for the implementation of that peaceful purpose. Would An Iranian Bomb Split Radical Islam? We shall find out.
Item: At the same time, Latin America is being bought off by an oil-rich Communist semi-dictator who’s playing footsie with Iran for the purposes of installing his Bolivarian revolution in South America, while setting up death squads in his own country.
There is ONE, and I repeat, ONE pressing issue of our times: we are at war. Not a “little” war in a far-away place, but an assault on all civilisation The Democrats simply don’t have a clue as to what to do about that.
And that’s the real scandal.
(additional links at my post, if you care to visit)(apologies for the shameless self-promo)
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:40 am 22. RogerA:Its summer time in Washington! Looks to me like the media are both the source and the leakers. (do leaks swirl down clockwise or counter clockwise in the northern hemisphere?) I am beginning to believe it was none other than Judith Miller who instigated the whole thing with a few phone calls and can now claim to be a press martyr while writing her book as she sits in jail in order to cover her own ass in this non-scandal–or am I just overly cynical.
Besides, talking about DC insider politics is more fun that pointing out the Bush tax cuts apparently have increased tax revenues, ESP from upper bracket taxpayers to the point where the deficit should be reduced more rapidly than projected–Paul Krugman and the MSM remain silent on this story. OR, that scores for 9 year olds are improving and the achievement gap is narrowing–could the hated No Child Left Behind act be responsible?
And the MSM expect to be respected? Gaggggg
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:44 am 23. Buddy Larsen:This whole thing, in my opinion, flows out of a botched Memogate-Kitty Kocaine-type campaign ploy to create a Bush-Lie about the central campaign issue–OIF.
If you can’t find a Bush-lie, invent one.
Then if/when you get found-out, misdirect frantically. Find some arcane foggy detail. Something that can be brought to the he-said/she-said level. Then by all means available, try one more time to manufacture that ole Glorious Scandal of Yore.
Why not? Nothing else going on in the world is anywhere nearly as important!
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:48 am 24. chuck:Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…snork…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:50 am 25. richard mcenroe:No! You fools! It’s so simple!
Hitlerburton’s industrial espionage operatives obviously leaked Plames name to the press to leak to Rove to leak back to the press! Can’t you see? Don’t you understand?!
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:50 am 26. Buddy Larsen:Dem leaders talk of jail so much, reminds me, the truth is, in a better world, a righteous world, there’s few of them that wouldn’t be in jail themselves, by now. Just on perfidy.
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:52 am 27. Buddy Larsen:Richard, can you say “set-up”?
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:54 am 28. Buddy Larsen:RogerA–amen…the economic stats are ALL moving sharply in the right dierection–the tax cuts are working, the deficit is ahead of sched to halve by 2009–as GWB promised–global markets are rising, interest rates aren’t going anywhere fast and the wealth effect and ownership society are rockin’ along like a Democrats worst nightmare.
Measuring progress–what a concept–is drying up the scandal of a federal school system sacrificing the nation’s children (our national future) in order to be PC (AKA a meritocracy-free adult-Democrat jobs-program).
So, hey, what better time to drum up a distraction?
Jul 15, 2005 - 8:09 am 29. Knucklehead:Hogarth,
And for this kind of drivel our self-fellating media cries out for the need for federal reporter protection laws?
Yes. Sadly this is precisely why they want Unquestionable High Priest status. The long period when the MSM could run any scam they wanted to run, unchecked and unchallenged, is drawing to a close. They had defacto UHP status because there was no way, prior to the blogosphere and its citizen journalists, for them to be effectively questioned and challenged.
Now they need legal protections because their cloaking device is failing rapidly.
Jul 15, 2005 - 8:12 am 30. ahem:Yes, as good news continues to hit on both the diplomatic and domestic fronts you can expect to see the Left ratchet up the desperation and hysteria. They can’t get a thing on Bush and the rest of the country is starting to notice.
Personally, I don’t give a damn if the media wants to report on its own anonymous leaks. I just wish they’d eliminate the middleman…
Jul 15, 2005 - 8:26 am 31. Charlie (Colorado):Looks like Cliff May has found the real leaker. Hint: not Novak, not Rove.
Jul 15, 2005 - 8:48 am 32. Kevin P:Roger:
The flood of info and speculation that the Rove hunters use to build up a case never seems to get to the important facts, which of course they do not know. If Rove purposly outed Plame and knew that she was a covert agent then he should go. Why did Rove include Plame in the conversation? Because her hubby was trying to create the myth that Cheney had sent him to investigate Yellowcake in Niger and that The White House ignored the news they didn’t want to hear. Of course we now know that Cheney didn’t appoint Wilson and that Wilsons report never reached the White House and what he was claiming in his writings had a severe disconnect with reality. With the info we know at this moment Plame was not the target, her agitprop spewing
husband was.
At the time she was a desk jockey at the CIA. Unless something comes out that shows Rove knew she was covert in the past he did nothing wrong. For his own political career Wilson decided to jump into the partisan war and if she was this super agent(which due to the secret nature of the CIA the Wilsons can inflate her importance more then it might actually be) who was in dire straights if her cover was blown then why did Wilson rush to get himself on every T.V show in the country. His concern for his ego seems to have been more important then his wife’s safety. Why did she pose for a photo in a national magazine that goes all over the world? These are not the actions of a covert agent fearing for her life.
Is there more to come and is Rove guilty? Anything is possible. But with the info that we have out right now there is no there there. The left can huff and puff and print out the transcripts of all of Scott McCllellands press conferences but they don’t have anything that either convicts Rove or even remotely shows that Rove had any idea that he knew Plame was covert. Saying someone works at Langley is not a crime or is it wrong. A covert agent would never let her hubby become a partisan hack and use his work in her field as entre to speaking fee’s and ego boosts if she truly was in fear for her safety.
Jul 15, 2005 - 8:53 am 33. Old Dad:Chucky Tumor, fatuous a-hole, indeed.
Perhaps, a Constitutional Amendment eliminating the Senate is in order, at a minimum, the Senators from New York.
Jul 15, 2005 - 8:54 am 34. erp:Gee Terrye, are you kidding?
Instructions were actually posted on a website available to anyone who can log-on that readers go to Rove’s residence and defecate on his lawn!!! A new kind of sit-in.
Here I thought leftoids had run out of ideas. Apparently, I was very much mistaken.
Jul 15, 2005 - 9:07 am 35. Kyda Sylvester:Shhhhh–don’t wake Chuck.
Jul 15, 2005 - 9:08 am 36. Buddy Larsen:erp, FoxNews yesterday reported that vandalism instruction…who was it that on Letterman or somesuch recommended that people go terrorize GOP pol’s homes, was it Alec Baldwin? The site, IIRC was aliberaldose dot something. I remember, the ‘dose’ along with the excrement, tagged up.
So, Charlie, Cliff May points the strong finger to Wilson–the wide-eyed innocent patriot on TV lately–outed his own wife, to set up the deal. Why am I not surprised?
Jul 15, 2005 - 9:40 am 37. Steven Mitchell:I blame the sharks and Gary Condit. Where are they when the press needs them? A sizable part of the press can only handle a story where you only add 1 and 1 and usually get 2, preferably with no more layers of conditions than a cat can understand. (”If I scratch the couch, I get sprayed with vinegar. Therefore, I pee on the couch instead.”)
Connecting dots in Iran is too much work. If they don’t have a simple story, they make one.
Jul 15, 2005 - 9:42 am 38. Tom Holsinger:Roger,
The Wilson/Plame fuss is the Democratic version of O.J.
Jul 15, 2005 - 10:12 am 39. Keith_Indy:Ummm, if Ms Plame was a super secret CIA agent…
How did her hubby know of this?
From my understanding super secret CIA agents spouses aren’t even supposed to know their real role.
But I guess it would be impolite to bring that up.
Jul 15, 2005 - 10:27 am 40. vegetius:For all:
Any bets on how long before the current Mrs. Wilson files for divorce?? My guess is 36-48 months is a ‘decent interval’. She is much talked about but never heard or seen. Wonder why??
Jul 15, 2005 - 10:32 am 41. Knucklehead:Kieth_Indy,
Based upon the Vanity Fair photo I’d say Val and Joe watched the closing tango scene in True Lies a few times too often.
I’m pretty well convinced the base, underlying motive in this case is petty vanity. It really is a boring and nothing there issue. The MSM and the Dems are desperated to pin something, anything, on anybody in the Bush administration.
They expected the second term scandals by now and if they can’t find them they’ll make them up.
Jul 15, 2005 - 11:03 am 42. jerry:I want to put some perspective on “covert agents” of the CIA. As many of you know I have some vague understanding of intelligence matters. My best friend and her husband could be described as “Mr. and Mrs. James Bond.” Seeing that this the Washington DC area, everbody in neighborhood knows they work for the CIA (actually she burned out and does other things now) and have done some “spooky” things. The neighbors may not know what they do exactly but they have been known to disapear for extended periods of time So it is pretty clear that they do those spy things overseas.
Now suppose one of them was involved in a Plame like kurtuffle. Don’t you think the press would be going through the neighborhood looking for dirt? How long would it take for a smart reporter to figure out that they were “covert” CIA employees? Mr. Bond is still employed by the agency and Mrs. Bond has not had her 5 years elapse yet. Do you think that any of their neighbors would be prosecuted for outing a covert agent even if it was for political reasons?
Jul 15, 2005 - 12:05 pm 43. Easter Lemming:This administration appears to have put the nationís security in jeopardy for purely petty partisan means, they revealed the identity of CIA covert agents by outing one, put at risk hundreds of people, years of work, and even made it easier for terrorists to obtain wmds. Why are some people defending this?
The only defense is 1) this isn’t important, 2) that an agent with a created identity who worked to prevent WMD acquiitions by terrorists isn’t a covert agent (ignoring the CIA and numerous CIA officials), 3) and continuous attacks on Wilson (who both Novak and the first President Bush had called one of America’s heroes) which is irrelevant to the charge of leaking a covert agent defending America.
Who else is outraged by this smear – the Presiden’t father.
Raw Story: I know that after this occurred you had gotten a kind letter from George H. W. Bush expressing his concern and dismay.
Wilson: I got a long hand-written note.
Raw Story: What were his sentiments?
Wilson: He expressed his outrage at what had happened and his understanding of the seriousness of it.
Again, where is the outrage from those who call themselves patriots?
Jul 15, 2005 - 12:34 pm 44. Bostonian:Easter, you’re not even remotely convincing.
I just thought you should know that.
Jul 15, 2005 - 12:45 pm 45. Steven Mitchell:What Bostonian said. Talking points work marginally better if one makes some effort to integrate them into the discussion. Simple cut-n-paste won’t get the job done.
Is it just me, or is the quality of the memebot going down quite a bit lately? You don’t reckon that all the good ones are on vacation in the south of France?
Jul 15, 2005 - 12:50 pm 46. vegetius:This whole thing is starting to remind my of the parlor game Clue….my guess is Colonel Mustard in the Conservatory, with the Candlestick OR
Ms. Miller, in the ‘Times’, with Joe Wilson.
Your turn………
Jul 15, 2005 - 1:38 pm 47. Keith_Indy:Wilson just said his wife wasn’t a covert agent at the time of Novaks column.
So, if Novak didn’t know she HAD been a covert agent, and Rove didn’t tell Cooper that she was a covert agency, then how did this meme about her being a covert agent get started.
POSSIBLE SOURCE: http://www.nationalreview.com/may/may200507150827.asp
The first reference to Plame being a secret agent appears in The Nation, in an article by David Corn published July 16, 2003, just two days after Novakís column appeared. It carried this lead: ìDid Bush officials blow the cover of a U.S. intelligence officer working covertly in a field of vital importance to national security ó and break the law ó in order to strike at a Bush administration critic and intimidate others?î
Try integrating that into your talking points Mr Lemming.
Jul 15, 2005 - 1:38 pm 48. Syl:Stating that someone works at the CIA is NOT outing an undercover agent. There was no there there from the beginning.
Period.
End of story.
What I fear may be a problem is when Wilson started the fuss about his wife’s ‘outing’ which it wasn’t, a bit of panic ensued in various circles including the press and among administration officials.
I hope to high heaven nobody fibbed to the grand jury. I hope nobody conspired to get their stories straight.
That’s all I’m worried about.
The basic fact behind all this is that Wilson is a liar and an asshole.
Jul 15, 2005 - 1:38 pm 49. Matt in Tampa:Easter- pass what you’re smoking. Any illicit substances that allows one to ignore facts and reality to such an extent is something I just gotta try.
Jul 15, 2005 - 1:38 pm 50. Barry Dauphin:Piling on some more via “Cliff” May.
Rather deep in the Washington Times story today by Stephen Dinan and Joseph Curl is this revelation:
A former CIA covert agent who supervised Mrs. Plame early in her career yesterday took issue with her identification as an “undercover agent,” saying that she worked for more than five years at the agency’s headquarters in Langley and that most of her neighbors and friends knew that she was a CIA employee.
“She made no bones about the fact that she was an agency employee and her husband was a diplomat,” Fred Rustmann, a covert agent from 1966 to 1990, told The Washington Times.
“Her neighbors knew this, her friends knew this, his friends knew this.î
If her neighbors knew she worked for the CIA, if her friends new she worked for the CIA, no crime was committed by anyone passing such information along to a reporter–as long as they didnít know and tell that she had once been undercover, and as long as the source of their knowledge was not classified documents. http://corner.nationalreview.com/05_07_10_corner-archive.asp#069692
Time for Lemming to follow Joe Wilson over the Cliff.
Jul 15, 2005 - 1:44 pm 51. Steven Mitchell:“Your turn……”
Sandy Burglar in the archives with his pants.
Hey, it explains the delay in his sentencing, too!
Jul 15, 2005 - 1:47 pm 52. vegetius:Steven Mitchell:
“Sandy Burglar in the archives with his pants…”
Damn you’re good!!!
anybody else??
Jul 15, 2005 - 1:55 pm 53. Buddy Larsen:Easter-Lemming, does your name mean that resurrectionists believe in Easter because they’re lemmings? If so, then you’re not only not very smart (the politics) but also not very nice (insulting some people’s beliefs). I think I’ll call myself Wilson-Lemming. And hey,Matt, no bogartin’!
Jul 15, 2005 - 2:08 pm 54. jerry:Barry:
As per my last post, I just want to assure you that Valarie Plame is not my best friend not do I know Joe Wilson.
However, it is a good story because it reinforces my point about how unsecret the identities of Case Officers are to their friends and neighbors. People spend to much time watching TV and they think they now are experts on how “secret” organizations operate.
I like Alias, I like NCIS and movies like Enemy of the State but I know they are just fantasy. Unfortunately, too many people get their take on history and current events from TV and Oliver Stone.
Jul 15, 2005 - 2:35 pm 55. Bostonian:Alias…. fantasy… what are you sayin’, Jerry?
Jul 15, 2005 - 3:10 pm 56. Kyda Sylvester:Judith Miller in the Times with Valerie Wilson (aka V. Plame, Secret Agent Gal, they’ve given her a number and taken away her name–if only).
There’s a gal who leads a life of danger
To everyone she meets she stays a stranger
With every move she makes another chance she takes
Odds are she won’t live to see tomorrow
Jul 15, 2005 - 3:51 pm 57. Buddy Larsen:Hey, are we taxpayers paying these people to do all this silly kids-in-the-hall crap?
Jul 15, 2005 - 4:06 pm 58. Buddy Larsen:How many of their political operation has that party shucked off onto the taxpayers? I’ll bet it amounts to hundreds and hundreds of dollars!
Jul 15, 2005 - 4:12 pm 59. timmah!:Josh Marshall is calling retreat:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/14/172732/082
I mean, outflanking the enemy. And excitable Andrew was this close to falling for it.
Jul 15, 2005 - 4:23 pm 60. Charlie (Colorado):Let me just throw in with Jerry: I’ve certainly mentined that I have been in the same sort of line of business (and I’m still jealous that Jerry got to visit the Stargate, jeeez.) I have been covert, lots more years ago than it matters any longer.
One thing I’m certain of is that Plame/Wilson was not covert.
But then, that’s what Joe Wilson says now, too.
Jul 15, 2005 - 4:26 pm 61. Katherine:ìHey, are we taxpayers paying these people to do all this silly kids-in-the-hall crap?î
Buddy,
Yes.
Donít you feel all warm and fuzzy knowing where your taxes go?
Jul 15, 2005 - 4:41 pm 62. Buddy Larsen:The comments on Timmah’s link…literate folks, living in a frankly unrecognizable world.
Jul 15, 2005 - 4:45 pm 63. Buddy Larsen:Katherine, I try to visualize all mine going to the military. Otherwise, Fed waste would spoil my, uh, “life”.
Jul 15, 2005 - 5:00 pm 64. Bostonian:What Buddy said… those people are drinkin’ the koolaid.
Jul 15, 2005 - 5:05 pm 65. Buddy Larsen:Bostonian, those folks are fixated on connections…those that factually do exist, don’t in that world, yet connections that don’t factually exist, do, in that world. It’s a no joke, flat out flight from reality.
Jul 15, 2005 - 5:16 pm 66. Bostonian:What particularly gets me is that it should be obvious to anyone with a brain that the US media is absolutely champing at the bit to get dirt on GWB and everyone associated with him… and they continue to turn up nothing.
This is because the GOP is *that* good at hiding its dirt? Puh-lease.
The flip side of this is even worse. The media is entirely uninterested in whether the Democrats are honest or even sane, and thus applies no pressure at all to that end of the spectrum. I don’t think the press is doing the Left any favors by letting it get steadily crazier.
Jul 15, 2005 - 5:30 pm 67. Buddy Larsen:That’s the problem, alright. Legitimizing the bottomed-out politics. A third refraction is that, being all in the family, we can’t be happy about the spectacle, either.
Jul 15, 2005 - 5:32 pm 68. Luther McLeod:Sorry to interupt with an OT, but Michael Yon has a great report up. http://www.michaelyon.blogspot.com/
Jul 15, 2005 - 5:41 pm 69. Charlie (Colorado):My favorite line on the whole issue:
So let me get this straight: Karl Rove sought to retaliate against American patriot Joe Wilson by illegally and unethically “outing” his covert CIA “operative” wife (and to hear Democrats like Harry Reid tell it, AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR NATION’S VERY SECURITY!) — and he did all this by … waiting for both Robert Novak and Matt Cooper to contact him…?
Man. The Force is strong with this one.
Protein Wisdom
Jul 15, 2005 - 6:10 pm 70. Buddy Larsen:The Force IS strong…Rove’s global release of all contacts to talk to the Grand Jury–what a way to with-hold information…by releasing it!.
Luther, that first story, “Mosul”…wow! Guy can write. But the guys he writes about…no words.
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:00 pm 71. dougf:I don’t think the press is doing the Left any favors by letting it get steadily crazier.–Bostonian
Well maybe not, but I have long believed that the ‘left’ and its chosen agent the Democratic Party are now both bankrupt. The Iraq War was the prism through which I have seen the new reality. Normally it would be a bad thing to not only allow but actively authenticate a mass delusion, but in this case I firmly believe it is an historical necessity.
Do we really want the current incarnation of the ‘left’ and its agents to be rescued from their own delirium? For what purpose? They won’t get ‘better’. They would only get more ‘astute’. Better that they flame out now so that something can arise to take their place. What that something will be is presently unknowable, but that it will occur is surely not.
Let the train run full speed ahead until it simply runs out of track, and self-destructs. The passengers on that particular route cannot now be saved. What comes after can only be better.
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:20 pm 72. Buddy Larsen:DougF, you’d be less sanguine if you’d ever watched the flick “Night of the Living Dead”.
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:29 pm 73. dougf:DougF, you’d be less sanguine if you’d ever watched the flick “Night of the Living Dead”.–Buddy L
LOL.
I’ll have you know sir that I watched that when it first came out. Absolutely terrifying at the time. I mean TERRIFYING.
However in retrospect,all the brain dead ‘leftists’(oops I mean zombies), came to a bad end if I recall correctly. We just have to find a convenient cellar, barricade the entrances, and stay put NO MATTER WHAT.
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:38 pm 74. Kyda Sylvester:You mean we’re not watching it now? Damn.
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:43 pm 75. Buddy Larsen:That’s right–DON’T split up!
“You wait here, while I go try to start the car”
NOOOoooooo!!!!
Jul 15, 2005 - 7:55 pm 76. dougf:That’s right–DON’T split up!
“You wait here, while I go try to start the car”
NOOOoooooo!!!!—– BL
You crack me up. I LOVE this site. Sarcasm, irony, generalised humour, erudition, and last but not least zero tolerance for the ‘usual suspects’.
A perfect combination. Thanks all.
Jul 15, 2005 - 8:05 pm 77. Buddy Larsen:It IS a blessed relief, this site. Good ole Roger.
Jul 15, 2005 - 8:09 pm 78. richard mcenroe:Charlie(Colorado) ó Rove is a secret master of the oriental doctrine of ‘wu wei’… action through stillness.
Jul 15, 2005 - 9:47 pm 79. Buddy Larsen:I think the Democwats is vewy wu-wei’d.
Jul 15, 2005 - 10:00 pm 80. BarCodeKing:It’s been like watching a Roadrunner cartoon in recent years. The Wile E. Democrats remember that once, thirty-odd years ago, a coyote actually caught a roadrunner, and they keep dreaming of it happening again. And it’s been really quite entertaining watching as their Acme rocket skates carry them hurtling over cliffs, their Acme dynamite blows up in their faces and their Acme anvils keep dropping on their own heads, with Bush saying “Meep! Meep!” and running past them. And they just don’t understand why they keep failing, and keep trying again and again.
As for the little AP clarification on the Wilson quote, it still doesn’t explain that Plame returned from her last overseas NOC assignment in 1997, settled down and had kids and took a desk job at Langley. The 1982 law is very clear on the statute of limitations of NOC, and it means within five (5) years of the last overseas NOC assignment. Novak’s story was published in 2003, six (6) years after Plame’s last apparent NOC assignment, which means that no crime occurred in identifying her as “apparently working for the CIA.” And there’s still the question of why Judy Miller is still in jail, since she obviously would have been able to talk if she was protecting Rove as her source. She’s obviously protecting someone else who is the real target of the investigation. Perhaps herself. Perhaps Wilson or Plame.
Seizing on the AP article clarifying what Wilson said isn’t going to save their scandal as the Acme Giant Flyswatter comes down to smack their party, while the Rove and Bush roadrunners leave them in the dust.
“Meep! Meep!”
Jul 16, 2005 - 2:47 am 81. Kyda Sylvester:John Tierney has a nice wrap-up of “Nadagate”:
My only quibble is his awarding Judith Miller victim status. That remains to be seen.
Jul 16, 2005 - 8:15 am 82. Buddy Larsen:The Schumer/Wilson press statement was so hilarious…Wilson, standing tall, finshed with something like “Even if nothing illegal happened, still, the American people’s right to expect the highest ethics from their senior civil servants, has been violated.”
Do tell….
Jul 16, 2005 - 8:32 am 83. Buddy Larsen:…ya hadda see it…the smarminess, the wide-eyes that signal the deliberate conscious attempt to achieve credibility (”look believable, dammit, look believable”)…the fake dudgeon…ahhh, *spitoooey*….
Jul 16, 2005 - 8:39 am 84. Kyda Sylvester:There are other wrap-ups as well:
This CONSPIRACY began prior to 9/11.
9/11 was designed as the pretext to enable all that has followed.
Cheney ran the entire show, and all signs point to him.
Mary Matalin and everyone in Cheney’s group is going to prison.
All of this tracks to 9/11 and Cheney’s collusion with NORAD.
Too many people know too much for this Conspiracy to be kept secret.
The truth will blow you away.
They presume to know better than us what is best for us.
Their arrogance will bring their downfall.
They have looted our country.
They are desparate to retain power and anything could happen.
We’re screwed.
Gotta gin up interest somehow, Buddy. The Plame-Wilson’s are desperate for that movie deal. Have they, I wonder, decided who will play them yet?
Jul 16, 2005 - 9:13 am 85. Captain Hate:Oh c’mon; look at this busy schedule: http://www.politicsoftruth.com/appearances.html
Jul 16, 2005 - 9:32 am 86. Kevin P:Roger:
First it was Rove must be fired because he committed a crime. Then it was lowered to Rove should resign even if he didn’t commit a crime. Then it was lowered even further yesterday when Carville floated the He should resign so the buisness of America can continue. Give this another month and the Dems will be yelling ROVE MUST GO because I say so and I am going to yell and scream until I get my way.
Kevin Peters
Jul 16, 2005 - 9:34 am 87. flenser:I cannot agree wth those saying this is much ado about nothing. There is circumstantial evidence to suggest that elements in the CIA, State Dept, and MSM cooked this up in an attempt to sting the Bush administration. I’d guess the media are leaking selected information to … the media, in an effort to create the desired convential wisdom ahead of the prosecutors report.
OT, to truepeers, Rick, Buddy, usual suspects.
File under “The coming end of the nation-state”.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/GuestColumns/MeeseGaziano20050715.shtml
http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/outsourcing/story/0,10801,103089,00.html
Jul 16, 2005 - 11:04 am 88. mrp:The Kaus-Hewitt interview transcript posted by the nice folks at radioblogger.com is very interesting.
Jul 16, 2005 - 12:42 pm 89. HA:I wonder how long it will take to see the Hollywood cliche fantasy movie of the noble mid-level whistleblower standing up to the corrupt administration spreading lies to get us into a war for oil.
Of course, SOMEONE (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, hint, hint) with a more sophisticated world view could come up with a more interesting plot of a mid-level cabal in the intelligence bureaucracy with allies in the media and “loyal” opposition plotting to undermine the administation and the war effort by spreading lies and disinformation and smearing administration officials all while getting rich by writing and flamboyantly selling books like the “Politics of Truth” to the zombie marxbots at MoveOn and Daily Kos.
Jul 17, 2005 - 5:25 am 90. Luther McLeod:Good storyline HA. That would sell I think.
Jul 17, 2005 - 9:00 am 91. HA:Luther,
Yeah, don’t you think that in the hands of the right writer that there is a good story to tell? Can you think go someone?
Hey, I know who! Tom Wolfe! He could call it “The Bonfire of the Bureaucrats and Broadsheets.”
Jul 18, 2005 - 4:10 am 92. Dick Tuck:“Scooter Libby and Karl Rove “have given accounts to a special prosecutor” that are “at odds” with the testimony of Tim Russert and Bob Novak ”
–Bloomberg
Jul 26, 2005 - 6:43 pm