17 Comments

1. Charlie (Colorado):

As the terrorists are more and more thwarted in other places, they’re striking out against any target. The inevitable outcode of this will be that terrorism is just no longer acceptible to anyyone. When that happens, it will effectively die out.

The way to accelerate this is to give the terrorists no rest, and no hope.

Those who do give them rest, or hope — the Durbins and Kennedys, the Spanish cobbler, Wolcott and the NY Times — must be understood to be objectively pro-terrorist.

Jul 26, 2005 - 10:21 am 2. Kyda Sylvester:

The terrorist is at war with the entire world.

Including, I presume, Israel?

Muslims here and elsewhere must tell the world, not just once but again and again, every time the fanatics attack, that they have nothing to do with Islam, that they have been cast out.

Until the message gets through the world, Islamophobia will continue to grow. Until it gets through to the fanatics themselves, unless they realize they are damned, the slaughter of the innocents will continue.

Very good. And you can start in your own back yard by cleaning out the madrasses. The words are nice and they have their place, but I want to see some action.

Jul 26, 2005 - 11:32 am 3. Bruce Wechsler:

Kyda:

What impressed me most about the editorial was the glaring absence from their terror condemnation of the standard “including Israel’s terrorist acts” BS.

This, combined with the fact that it was an Editorial by the paper, as opposed to an opinion piece by a named writer, made me view it as a significant step.

Unfortunately, I think there will need to be several more incidents in other Arab/Muslim nations before this becomes a trend to which we can realistically look forward.

Jul 26, 2005 - 1:59 pm 4. Kevin P:

Roger:

This is a great editorial because it is free from rationalizing and blaming outside sources. It calls evil what it is, evil. How much influence will it have in the Middle east?. I don’t know. But this writing was perfect and it should be applauded.

Kevin Peters

Jul 26, 2005 - 2:19 pm 5. holdfast:

What’s really twisted is that this is a far less equivocal (or more unequivocal?) peice than the NY Times could ever print. It’s clearly only a first step – as written above, steps 2 and beyond involve fumigating the madrassas with extreme prejudice, but it is a step and should be lauded as such. It expresses a realisation that terrorism really is bad for children, muslims, bunnies and other living creatures, and that the terrorists really don’t give a rip about who’s innocent or guilty – the exploiters and the exploited, the owner and the workers, the muslim and the infidel – all are equal in that all are targets.

Duh!

Jul 26, 2005 - 3:13 pm 6. neo-neocon:

As time goes on, it becomes clearer and clearer that the terrorists are not as “strategic” and “smart” as some think they are. In fact, they appear to be motivated mainly by a deeply murderous nihilism.

If they had just kept to killing Israelis and Americans, they might not have let the world know what they were about. But the more they commit acts such as these, the more unequivocally clear it becomes that–whatever excuses and motivations they may try to give for their actions–they are at war with all of humanity.

Jul 26, 2005 - 4:10 pm 7. KarmiCommunist:

Roger,

First: Sorry that you don’t like humble me using yore “bandwidth”.

Second: This isn’t actually news, if you had a subscription to STRATFOR – http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/premium.php

From an email that STRATFOR send out today:

Al Qaeda’s Global Campaign: Tet Offensive or Battle of the Bulge?

SNIP…In the broader, global fight, al Qaeda continues to face this reality. There has not been a single revolution overthrowing a Muslim government in favor of a radical/militant Islamist regime. In fact, the bulk of the Muslim states are actively cooperating with the United States. The primary intent of the radical and militant Islamists, which is to create a caliphate based on at least one significant Muslim state, has been completely thwarted. This point has not been missed in the Islamic world. – STRATFOR (i added the ‘bold’ at the end.)

SNIP…The London attacks were a failure. It’s not only that the Tube attacks lacked the ferocity of 9-11. However tragic the loss of life, the first attack was a work of mediocre effectiveness, while the 7/21 attempt was a joke. SNIP…

Personally, humble me has found that the “Arab News” has been speaking out all along, but most of the Western World has missed such sounds…so to speak.

Karmi

Jul 26, 2005 - 5:12 pm 8. Snippet:

Neo-neocon,

My suspicion that you are an unusually intelligent and perceptive person has been confirmed. Your observation that a little more, ah …discipline … regarding targets would behoove the terrorists is a perfect reflection of my own opinion on the matter.

It is sad but true that if Al Qaida just kept the victims American and/or Jewish (or a few carefully chosen sympathizers) they would enjoy, for all practical purposes, the support of the international community.

Killing jewish schoolgirls is one thing. Killing European tourists. That’s just wrong.

Jul 26, 2005 - 5:13 pm 9. Syl:

It’s a start. We cannot win without the muslim world. As they realize the terrorists are their enemy too, they will join the fight. The West can play whack-a-mole but only the muslim world can change the ideology.

And Feinstein and Roberts stated on Blitzer that we’re now checking to see if any imams at all in the Arab world are speaking out against the terrorists. I hope they know a bit about taqiyah and compare what is said in public to more private utterances as well as not ignoring the ‘buts’. I was disappointed that this hadn’t occurred to them before.

There was one in Afghanistan who spoke out against the Taliban on his radio show in Afghanistan. He was just attacked with a bomb a few days ago. Alive but injured and under US medial care. It is not nice to criticize Islamist terror, and in many cases dangerous as well. But more and more, hopefully, will do so anyway.

And there are other signs of the beginnings of a wave of rejection for the terrorists. Though American news touched on it only briefly if at all (I think Foxnews had a blurb on its site), the demonstrations against terrorism in Egypt got front page billing and pictures in al-jazeera. And, of course, we have that PEW poll showing bin laden’s popularity dropping like a rock.

The seeds of disillusionment and defiance are out there, may they bloom.

neo-neocon is correct that the targets of the terrorists are proving counter-productive.

I’ll just add that this was predictable (in fact I’ve said it before) that once the mid and sub-level leadership and capabilities of al Qaeda itself were almost completely destroyed, the organizations and cells at the peripheries would start acting autonomously. Without a ‘command and control’ for coordination they would make mistakes.

I don’t think bin laden is ‘running’ things at all and though he and zawahiri get their tapes out once-in-a-while, there is nothing more they can do than exhort their followers to concentrate on the muslim world (zawahiri) or attack the west (bin laden). The operations and planning are left to ‘amateurs’ without a strategic vision. It is only mayhem that results.

The WaPo had an article stating the attacks in London proved bin laden is still in charge while an article in the Herald Tribune said the attacks show that bin laden is no longer in charge. Heh.

Right now Zarqawi seems to be the most dangerous in the world but even he does not have control over everything.

Jul 26, 2005 - 7:02 pm 10. Syl:

Oh, one thing I’ve meant to bring up, mainly to counter the ‘Iraq creates more terrorists’ meme is that the biggest recruiting tool, ever, was 9/11. The Islamist euphoria over that event brought thousands to the cause. We can do it! We can destroy the West! Look how easy it is!

Jul 26, 2005 - 7:09 pm 11. Rick Ballard:

Syl,

Very good post. I would only disagree to the extent that the “most dangerous” remain the Iranian and Saudi terrorist financiers. Take the money out of the game and the number of willing participants would drop precipitously. When Saddam’s checks to the families of Pali splodeydopes stopped so did most of the suicide bombings. The wall and the targeting of the Pali leadership certainly had a role to play in the reduction but so did the removal of the financial aspect.

Jul 26, 2005 - 7:20 pm 12. newsblaze:

Taking the big money out may not help because it only seems to take a very small amount of money to get those people to blow themselves up.

About a month ago, I wrote War in Iraq turning a corner?

The Sunnis is Iraq were just coming to the realisation that the terrorists were not on their side. The terrorists had their own agenda and they didn’t care about the Sunnis at all.

Its possible the terrorists think they don’t need them any more. Hopefully this will be the start of their undoing. It may be because BinLaden isn’t controlling them – they have been taught to operate on their own. So that means they don’t have the benefit of someone with the big picture in their head, who can keep them in line and set on a path that will lead them where they want to go. They are all doing their own thing and that means uncoordinated and out of control and hopefully defeatable because they will lose the support they had, as long as we don’t screw it up.

Jul 26, 2005 - 10:02 pm 13. Scott Harris:

“And he will be a wild donkey of a man. His hand will be against everyone, and everyone’s hand will be against him. And he will dwell in defiance of all his brothers.” Genesis 16:12

Victor David Hansen has an article on his website about so-called moderate Muslims that is a must-read.

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/thornton072605.html

Jul 27, 2005 - 12:47 am 14. Syl:

Scott, thanks for the VDH link. He is wise because he sees this from the historical perspective.

But his arguments don’t address someone like Sistani.

And when I really think about it, all I care about is that the jihad loses the sword of metal and instead uses the sword of words. Spiritual beliefs cannot be changed in whole over a few years, but the methods used to sustain those beliefs can be.

If the editorial wins over the car bomb, then the rest will eventually work itself out. The spirituality will still be there but it won’t be self-defeating because of violence.

I truly believe that the Bush doctrine is working towards that end. At least it is giving the Arab world a chance before it’s too late. Doesn’t matter what the administration’s words are (well it does, and these words are wisely chosen) it matters what results we hope to achieve.

—

OT why is it that typekey keeps me signed on at JOM and continually kicks me off here? I have cookies for both places.

Jul 27, 2005 - 2:31 am 15. David Thomson:

ìIn fact, they appear to be motivated mainly by a deeply murderous nihilism.î

And thatís why I shy away from describing them as fascists or reactionaries. These terms are, at best, of secondary value. No, we should instead focus, first, last, and foremost on their nihilism. They wish to destroy the world. Death is their ultimate goal. Life on this side of the grave is considered repugnant and to be ended as as soon as possible.

Jul 27, 2005 - 6:00 am 16. Snippet:

They are not nihilists. There is a goal that their mayhem is designed to advance. The long term goal is world-domination achieved by adding up a string of shorter term goals:

1) U.S. and Western militaries out of the Middle East

2) Israel out of the Middle East

3) Take over of Middle Eastern country (Preferably Saudi Arabia, Egypt will do, Iraq or Jordan or Syria or Algeria would be fine).

4) Use oil-wealth to purchase military hardware, conventional or otherwise.

5) Use conventional/unconventional methods to consilidate power within the area that was occupied by the Islamic Empire at its greatest extent. (This will include intimidating Europeans into NOT supporting certain governments in the Middle East).

Jul 27, 2005 - 10:35 am 17. KarmiCommunist:

UPDATE:

Whilst using RodgerÔøΩs bandwidth…grin:

“Islamic Extremism: Common Concern for Muslim and Western Publics“ http://pewglobal.org/

Jul 28, 2005 - 4:31 pm

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