Whilst using RodgerÔøΩs bandwidth…grin:

“Islamic Extremism: Common Concern for Muslim and Western Publics“ http://pewglobal.org/

1) U.S. and Western militaries out of the Middle East

2) Israel out of the Middle East

3) Take over of Middle Eastern country (Preferably Saudi Arabia, Egypt will do, Iraq or Jordan or Syria or Algeria would be fine).

4) Use oil-wealth to purchase military hardware, conventional or otherwise.

5) Use conventional/unconventional methods to consilidate power within the area that was occupied by the Islamic Empire at its greatest extent. (This will include intimidating Europeans into NOT supporting certain governments in the Middle East).

And thatís why I shy away from describing them as fascists or reactionaries. These terms are, at best, of secondary value. No, we should instead focus, first, last, and foremost on their nihilism. They wish to destroy the world. Death is their ultimate goal. Life on this side of the grave is considered repugnant and to be ended as as soon as possible.

But his arguments don’t address someone like Sistani.

And when I really think about it, all I care about is that the jihad loses the sword of metal and instead uses the sword of words. Spiritual beliefs cannot be changed in whole over a few years, but the methods used to sustain those beliefs can be.

If the editorial wins over the car bomb, then the rest will eventually work itself out. The spirituality will still be there but it won’t be self-defeating because of violence.

I truly believe that the Bush doctrine is working towards that end. At least it is giving the Arab world a chance before it’s too late. Doesn’t matter what the administration’s words are (well it does, and these words are wisely chosen) it matters what results we hope to achieve.

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OT why is it that typekey keeps me signed on at JOM and continually kicks me off here? I have cookies for both places.

Victor David Hansen has an article on his website about so-called moderate Muslims that is a must-read.

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/thornton072605.html

About a month ago, I wrote War in Iraq turning a corner?

The Sunnis is Iraq were just coming to the realisation that the terrorists were not on their side. The terrorists had their own agenda and they didn’t care about the Sunnis at all.

Its possible the terrorists think they don’t need them any more. Hopefully this will be the start of their undoing. It may be because BinLaden isn’t controlling them – they have been taught to operate on their own. So that means they don’t have the benefit of someone with the big picture in their head, who can keep them in line and set on a path that will lead them where they want to go. They are all doing their own thing and that means uncoordinated and out of control and hopefully defeatable because they will lose the support they had, as long as we don’t screw it up.

Very good post. I would only disagree to the extent that the “most dangerous” remain the Iranian and Saudi terrorist financiers. Take the money out of the game and the number of willing participants would drop precipitously. When Saddam’s checks to the families of Pali splodeydopes stopped so did most of the suicide bombings. The wall and the targeting of the Pali leadership certainly had a role to play in the reduction but so did the removal of the financial aspect.

And Feinstein and Roberts stated on Blitzer that we’re now checking to see if any imams at all in the Arab world are speaking out against the terrorists. I hope they know a bit about taqiyah and compare what is said in public to more private utterances as well as not ignoring the ‘buts’. I was disappointed that this hadn’t occurred to them before.

There was one in Afghanistan who spoke out against the Taliban on his radio show in Afghanistan. He was just attacked with a bomb a few days ago. Alive but injured and under US medial care. It is not nice to criticize Islamist terror, and in many cases dangerous as well. But more and more, hopefully, will do so anyway.

And there are other signs of the beginnings of a wave of rejection for the terrorists. Though American news touched on it only briefly if at all (I think Foxnews had a blurb on its site), the demonstrations against terrorism in Egypt got front page billing and pictures in al-jazeera. And, of course, we have that PEW poll showing bin laden’s popularity dropping like a rock.

The seeds of disillusionment and defiance are out there, may they bloom.

neo-neocon is correct that the targets of the terrorists are proving counter-productive.

I’ll just add that this was predictable (in fact I’ve said it before) that once the mid and sub-level leadership and capabilities of al Qaeda itself were almost completely destroyed, the organizations and cells at the peripheries would start acting autonomously. Without a ‘command and control’ for coordination they would make mistakes.

I don’t think bin laden is ‘running’ things at all and though he and zawahiri get their tapes out once-in-a-while, there is nothing more they can do than exhort their followers to concentrate on the muslim world (zawahiri) or attack the west (bin laden). The operations and planning are left to ‘amateurs’ without a strategic vision. It is only mayhem that results.

The WaPo had an article stating the attacks in London proved bin laden is still in charge while an article in the Herald Tribune said the attacks show that bin laden is no longer in charge. Heh.

Right now Zarqawi seems to be the most dangerous in the world but even he does not have control over everything.

My suspicion that you are an unusually intelligent and perceptive person has been confirmed. Your observation that a little more, ah …discipline … regarding targets would behoove the terrorists is a perfect reflection of my own opinion on the matter.

It is sad but true that if Al Qaida just kept the victims American and/or Jewish (or a few carefully chosen sympathizers) they would enjoy, for all practical purposes, the support of the international community.

Killing jewish schoolgirls is one thing. Killing European tourists. That’s just wrong.