36 Comments

1. PeterUK:

Tony Blair in his infinite wisdom incorporated European human rights laws in toto into British law when the Human Rights Act was enacted.IIRC France claimed derogation on parts of it.Thus France can boot out these gibbering coprolites nad Britain can not.

The Labour party is more akin to the Moveon wing of the Democrats than the Republicans, all lawyers,academics,public sector workers and mediacrities to an non-gender specific individual.

Jul 30, 2005 - 7:08 am 2. Jamie Irons:

Good morning, Peter.

Do you think Blair will wake up?

That guy is such a mass of contradictions. A stalwart on Iraq, a moron in dealing with reality at home.

Do you have a notion of what proportion of the British public is beginning to “get it?”

Jamie Irons

Jul 30, 2005 - 7:31 am 3. Kyda Sylvester:

But, but, but…won’t this just inflame them further?

They are unimpressed by his supporters’ claims that he is a “gentle and peaceful” man who devotes his time in the Belmarsh top-security jail in south-east London to learning the Koran by heart, studying English literature and comforting other Muslim prisoners.

Oh, I’ll bet. It’s very important to keep these birds away from other prisioners, particularly other Muslims. We grow a lot of radicals in prison.

French ministers and commentators have long expressed exasperation at British handling of individuals who support terrorism, arguing that greater emphasis is being placed on their human rights rather than on security interests.

Seems a familiar refrain. Now where else and about whom have I heard that complaint?

As critical as this is, it’s even more important that their countries of origin keep them marginalized once they get home. I have my doubts.

(I had to go to the dictionary for “coprolite”, Peter. “Fossilized excrement”–LOL. I only wish it were the literal case–fossilized would be nice.)

Jul 30, 2005 - 7:38 am 4. TomTom:

WOW! A whiff of fresh air out of fetid France. Wonderful.

But here in the pc USA, WMAL Radio in D.C. has just suspended Michael Graham for suggesting (rightly)Islam is part of the problem. The Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) complained, so Graham was hung out to dry.

Jul 30, 2005 - 7:39 am 5. Syl:

I read in passing fairly recently that we’ve deported a few radical imams ourselves. But, as I remember, it was just someone stating so and for the life of me I don’t remember who.

My only thought at the time was that I’m sure much is going on under the radar then I forgot about it. No matter how much our press wants to look the other way and pretend things aren’t as bad as they seem, I’m not sure they want to be the first to start THAT battle. Let someone else make the first complaint.

I guess the ‘right’ people haven’t said/leaked much yet.

I hope everyone has read the interview with the young radical Islamist, Butt. The interview took place before the London attacks and he had predicted that if attacks happened in Britain, life would become harder for his cronies and all muslims there. So he didn’t advocate it, but he would celebrate it anyway.

We’ll see. What’s with Blair’s wife anyway?

Jul 30, 2005 - 7:44 am 6. Doug:

Isn’t it interesting that the French would have such a policy? I mean it is all based on common sense and the security of France. While the French have done a great thing here they seem to forget one thing. They are no longer a world power and have not been for almost 150 years. When it comes to military power and the ability to defend themselves, they simply cannot without the rest of the western world. Good wine and food does not make you safe.

We should all look at this in light of this fact. You have seen the reaction of France to the war on terror, which is really nonexistant until now but suddenly France seems to have realized one undisputable fact. These Islamofacists want to destory the west. That is the bottom line there is no other explaination or motivation. (As a matter fact a big fat period)

I see no evidence whatsoever that the French want to join the US or Britain in the war on terror. They seem simply to want to go it on their own.

The French are the perfect example of “riding the fence” trying to be on both sides on the sametime. That is always much like the old story tale of the gingerbread man riding the tiger across the water. Either the tiger eats you or you fall off and drown either way you lose.

The French can take all the tough measures they want but they plain fact of the matter is they don’t have the resources nor the national will to stand up against this threat alone.

One thing that any bar fight has in common with a world war is this. You have to pick a side, if you don’t both sides will beat on you and as a result you will lose no matter which side wins.

As promising as this development is it still doesn’t mean the French are on our side. They are still playing both sides against the middle and that never works. It doesn’t work for a kid on the playground and it doesn’t work in the international community. Especially for the the 98 pound weakling such as France as become in the world.

Jul 30, 2005 - 7:45 am 7. Kyda Sylvester:

I meant to add that, while I mostly applaud these measure, I do nevertheless find the European “centre-right” a little scary.

Jul 30, 2005 - 7:45 am 8. Kyda Sylvester:

Didn’t the gingerbread man ride a fox across the river?

Jul 30, 2005 - 7:49 am 9. Jamie Irons:

Kyda,

Yes, it was a fox.

Tigers are on record as not particularly caring for gingerbread.

Jamie Irons

Jul 30, 2005 - 8:01 am 10. Jamie Irons:

Peter

By chance I just found Mark Steyn making the same observation about Tony Blair that I made above.

But he made it first and, as usual, brilliantly:

…it requires a perverse genius on the part of Tony Blair to have found the political courage to fight an unpopular war on a distant shore but not the political courage to wage it closer to home where it would have commanded far more support.

Jamie Irons

P.S. If you’re browsing with Apple’s Safari, you may need to load the Telegraph page twice.

Jul 30, 2005 - 8:07 am 11. Jamie Irons:

Peter,

By chance I happen to own an actual coprolite, from a Jurassic stratum, and said to be that of some herbivorous dinosaur.

Sawn in half and with one surface polished, it’s actually rather attractive.

Thankfully, it doesn’t gibber.

Jamie Irons

Jul 30, 2005 - 8:10 am 12. PeterUK:

Jamie,

I think Blair has suddenly woken up,probably sits bolt upright in bed staring into the darkness,but she is still there.

Jul 30, 2005 - 8:18 am 13. PeterUK:

Kyda,

Cheriie Booth is a human rights lawyer!!

Jul 30, 2005 - 8:20 am 14. PJ:

Sarkozy and Merkel…is Europe waking up? If both were to be elected, tres formidable!

As to Tony’s anti-terror policy, “needs work.”

cf., http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=16874_Moderate_UK_Islamic_Leader-_No_Such_Thing_As_Al_Qaeda&only

Jul 30, 2005 - 8:23 am 15. PeterUK:

Jamie,

When one thinks about it,mustn’t greenhouse gases have been a bigger problem than now in the age of the dinosaur ? A good job it is impossible to fossilise flatulence

Jul 30, 2005 - 8:24 am 16. Kyda Sylvester:

To be fair, Jamie, maybe this gingerbread man was Asian and the tiger a creature of unusual tastes. What does one do with a polished half coprolite anyhow?

Thanks, Peter, that certainly explains a lot about Cherie (I think you’re addressing Syl though).

Jul 30, 2005 - 8:32 am 17. John Thacker:

Ah, it’s not really that sudden of a thing. France has long been tougher on terrorists, even though it refused to go along with overthrowing Saddam. They’ve been very helpful at immediately jailing (without charging with a crime or anything else) the French nationals held at Guantanamo Bay when we hand them over to them. None of the cries over habeas corpus or civil liberties that you here either here or elsewhere in the English-speaking world.

Not that that’s altogether a good thing, mind you. Civil liberties are important.

Jul 30, 2005 - 8:41 am 18. PeterUK:

Sorry Kyda,sorry Syl.

Jul 30, 2005 - 8:43 am 19. reel cobra:

France is tough on terrorists, but this is achieved by a very complex mix of factors.

And to be frank the French should be admired for understanding who they are and their true place in the Global War on Terror.

http://reelcobra.blogspot.com/2005/07/france-too-good-looking-for-terror.html

Jul 30, 2005 - 9:09 am 20. Richard Nieporent:

Who would of thought that these “cheese eating surrender monkeys” could act so decisively? However, they are being hypocrites. They attack our policies but have no compunction about instituting their own decidedly un-PC measures when it comes to their own safety. I guess it just depends on whose ox is being gored.

Jul 30, 2005 - 9:41 am 21. dan wismar:

I’m not so sure there is anything so “sudden” about the French toughness on terror, as this article by Daniel Pipes points out. What the elites think and say and how the government acts are two entirely different things, in France as elsewhere. Just one excerpt:

France accords terrorist suspects fewer rights than any other Western state, permitting interrogation without a lawyer, lengthy pre-trial incarcerations, and evidence acquired under dubious circumstances. Were he a terrorism suspect, says Evan Kohlmann, author of Al-Qaida’s Jihad in Europe, he “would least like to be held under” the French system.

Jul 30, 2005 - 9:47 am 22. Luther McLeod:

OT, but an excellent essay and perspective on the eventual “Pullout” from Iraq.

At Varifrank: http://varifrank.com/

Jul 30, 2005 - 10:23 am 23. legion:

Why are these muslims so determined to destroy? Where is the creative instinct? Where is the artistic impulse, the drive to make something beautiful? Nothing but hatred, murder, mayhem, annhilation.

I wonder whether Nicolas Sarkozy and Oriana Falaci know each other. I hope he reads her latest work, “The Enemy We Treat as a Friend”. Over at pundita.blogspot.com there is a good discussion of Falaci’s latest work, with links to further comment and full translation.

Jul 30, 2005 - 10:23 am 24. Barry Dauphin:

So when will we hear the NPR documentary about the treatment of prsioners in French prisons?

Jul 30, 2005 - 10:24 am 25. Kyda Sylvester:

From Dan’s Daniel Pipes link (interesting piece BTW; I’ve read elsewhere that as pleased as our guys are with French intelligence and the level of cooperation between the two agencies, that’s how disgusted they are with the British):

Their dispute ended up in litigation and the Court of Appeal ultimately decided in Begum’s favour. As a result, by law UK schools must now accept the jilbab. Not only that, but Cherie Booth, wife of British prime minister Tony Blair, was Begum’s lawyer at the appellate level. Booth called the court’s judgment “a victory for all Muslims who wish to preserve their identity and values despite prejudice and bigotry”.

How very ackward for Tony.

Jul 30, 2005 - 11:29 am 26. MaDr:

We’ve always known how tough the French can be in defending their interests – just ask the Algerians about the 10,000 they tortured (not humiliated).

Personally, I love seeing the French frustration over the Brits’ reluctance over extradition. Seems I recall that the French have rebuffed a lot of our extradition requests.

Jul 30, 2005 - 11:50 am 27. PeterUK:

Kyda,

This really is sleeping with the enemy.

Jul 30, 2005 - 11:52 am 28. Jamie Irons:

Sorry to be slow responding. Had to work for a while.

Peter

That comment about waking up, sitting bolt upright in bed, and “she is still there” was funny!

Kyda

You ask:

What does one do with a polished half coprolite anyhow?

Isn’t it obvious?

One uses it to hold down objects in a high wind!

Jamie Irons

Jul 30, 2005 - 12:03 pm 29. Rick Ballard:

Jamie,

If one had the unpolished portion gilded I can think of any number of politicians for whom it would make a most appropriate gift.

Jul 30, 2005 - 12:40 pm 30. Terrye:

Peter:

If you put all the human rights lawyers end to end it would be a good thing.

sorry I coule not help myself.

But as for the French policy, people should not be surprised. The French are kinda mean. Always have been. Piss them off and they can get ugly.

Jul 30, 2005 - 2:14 pm 31. Kevin P:

Roger;

For the last 3 years the democrats have been pointing to Europe as the perfect example of how to deal with islamo fascism. We stupid Americans have been described as simpleton cowboys who react with emotion and brutality, we have thrown away our sense of human rights, and because of our lack of nuance we have made the problem worse.I wonder how the MSM will treat the cowboy like actions of France. Don’t the french realize that if they return these rebels to their home countries these poor unfortunates will be tortured and killed. Where were their trials? Did they have the opportunity for appeals?Shouldn’t non-citizen residents get open and full trials, shouldn’t they be treated like full citizens? Didn’t the judge just scold America and point to his 22 year sentencing(which will translate to 14 years) of the LAX millinium terrorist show how treating these minutemen just as regular citizens show how superior we are as a society?

Ah, for shame France! You are acting like a Bushie! Of course there will be a boycott of French wines by the ACLU Michael Moore crowd to protest France’s cruel,Gitmo like treatment of these victims. Just because they call for their flock to kill jews and anyone associated with them does not mean these acts will actually happen. I feel the cold chilling winds of France’s trampling of freedom of Speech. Tim Robbins,shouldn’t you be picketing the French embassy with your masked theatre group? Rise Up!, what happens to a radical Immam could happen to anyone the next day.The denial of Human rights to one is a denial to everyone.

Kevin Peters

Jul 30, 2005 - 2:38 pm 32. Terrye:

Kevin:

Two things I doubt would happen here in the land Mordor:

shoot to kill policy [I realize that people get shot by cops here but I just don't think the policy would ever allow for this kind of rules of engagement.]

stripping someone of their citizenship because they were deemed undesirable.

Jul 30, 2005 - 2:52 pm 33. Yehudit:

“You have seen the reaction of France to the war on terror, which is really nonexistant until now but suddenly France seems to have realized one undisputable fact.. . . I see no evidence whatsoever that the French want to join the US or Britain in the war on terror. They seem simply to want to go it on their own.”

Actually, even Daniel Pipes acknowledges that France is much harder on actual terrorists than Britain. And the US and French counterterrorism forces have been cooperating all along.

Jul 30, 2005 - 4:01 pm 34. SteveGW:

It’s not surprising that France can take this sort of drastic action. The French have a strong sense of the worth of their own culture – and, more importantly, the French elite have this strong sense. In Britain, America, Australia, and New Zealand (that I know of) the elite have ‘argued’ for decades that the host culture is largely worthless and the only culture worth speaking of is that imported or invented in pursuit of the multicultural ideal. Obviously, if they can’t admit to themselves the worth of their own culture they are going to be unable to articulate a case for its defence. Nor will they accept the arguments of others that might justify necessary action in its defence.

Jul 31, 2005 - 1:49 am 35. larry:

Terrye, what’s the alternative to “shoot to kill”? I have no documentation, but I’m sure if you ask your local P D, they dont have R O E shoot to near miss, shoot to scare, shoot to disarm, shoot to injure or shoot to maim.

Jul 31, 2005 - 8:37 am 36. dtlc:

1. At last France is doing something. Ahh, I mean a somewhat conservative politician is doing something.

2. But France needs to change its foreign policy which is very pro-Arab, anti-Israel, anti-American, pro-terrorist

Read this funny entry – hillarious and insightful

France Peugeot Makes Suicide Cars”

Its June 16, 2005 entry at http://satire.myblogsite.com/blog

3. It also has other entries about France, including a funny photo of Chirac congratulating President Bush on July 4, 2005.

Jul 31, 2005 - 10:23 am

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