Some will go to their grave thinking he was wonderful.

I hope to be around when they open the impeachment files.

I don’t claim to be an expert on China. Since you have some knowledge on the state of mind of the Chinese people I have some questions. Are the Chinese people taught about the mass starvation caused by Mao’s insane economic policy’s? (The steel production in the backyard’s from melting pots and pans is a classic in meglomaniacal thinking). Or are they given the standard myth building history of lies and propaganda. There are Germans who died thinking Hitler was a great man. Stalin stills has a following in Russia. The Dear Leader in North Korea will have sincere tears shed for him when he dies. Does this mean we should change the conventional wisdom that most sane people have about these leaders because the people who were spoon fed propaganda about these tyrants from birth still love them. Do poll ratings cancel out mass murder? There are battered spouses who will claim that their significant other is really a great person aside from the beatings.

Believe me, the Chinese are aware of Mao’s atrocities in The Great Leap Forward and The Culutural Revolution. No Chinese person I have ever spoken to has defended these disastrous episodes in their history. I don’t think the publication of this volume, even if it were allowed in China (where I live), would come as such a surprise for its people.

So the question arises….why do they still honor him? An analysis of that question seems necessary in a volume about Mao, and from the several reviews (including Kristof’s), Chang and Holliday do not provide one.

And the MSM is about the commemorate the death of the 2000th American soldier in Iraq.

as an aside: looks to me like Pat Turley’s link clearly establishes women have equal rights in china

I agree with Bostonian. I consider myself “liberal” too but I wonder how many liberals are willing to be honest enough to agree with the following statement. Communism was and continues to be a great evil, the greatest evil ever seen in this benighted world.

Oh, and yes, I did have a Chairman Mao poster myself.

If Kristof was strictly complaining about the numerical accuracy of the death figures I would have no problem with the review. And because, just as in Soviet Russia, the state controls all information and a true study of the figures are not possible becuse the state has the ability to change the records and restrict open, honest study of their history. But when he launches into the absurd “look at the good things Mao did” song and dance I get the sick feeling in my stomach that I got when I read the “Gulag Archipelago” and realized that the propaganda lies that I had been spouting, very similar to Kristof’s, were truly vulgar and I had been a dupe. The “good things” could have been acomplished without the mass murder. Mao was a mass murderer.Of multi millions of Chinese people. To promote a politcal and economic goal, not in self defense. Once you commit those acts I don’t want to hear a rationalazation. And that is exactly what Kristof wrote.

But his point on the estimate of the number of people were killed by the Great Famine is a pretty good one. He says that there are a huge range of estimates on the number, which is undoubtedly huge. If the authors chose only the highest estimate without any qualification (like “some estimates are as high as”) then one has to question how the authors marshal their evidence. And his stronger critisicisms were, in my mind, very valuable – if Mao was really so ineffectual and simply lucky, how did he remain in control for so long? I find it hard to believe that Mao wasn’t a very clever politician and a charismatic and powerful leader, just as Hitler was.

Kristoff is quite sympathetic to the authors revisionist version of the Long March, and even endorses the idea that Mao used the Korean War to wipe out political enemies.

I found the review to be very useful – I don’t want reviewers with neutral political opinions, I’d rather see a negative portrayal of Mao reviewed by someone sympathetic to Mao. Made me think it’s probably a very good book. That’s the goal of a review after all.

Being from a liberal family myself, I know that you’re right, that many liberals do indeed condemn Mao and Stalin.

On the other hand, what’s up with Codepink and Cuba? Or the Kos Kids and Chavez, whom they consider a hero?

There is no shortage of tyrant lovers among the ranks of the Left. And I’m not talking about “library records” tyranny–I’m talking “take you out back and shoot you” tyranny.

It is better to be THOUGHT a Marxist then to pen an op-ed and remove all doubt. And with this kind of reality inverting air-brushing, Kristoff and the NY removes all doubt.

Kristoff opens with some wishful thinking:

If Chairman Mao had been truly prescient, he would have located a little girl in Sichuan Province named Jung Chang and “mie jiuzu”- killed her and wiped out all her relatives to the ninth degree.

His Kingdom for a Flux Capacitor! But Kristoff’s closing is the clincher:

But Mao’s legacy is not all bad. Land reform in China, like the land reform in Japan and Taiwan, helped lay the groundwork for prosperity today.

Gotta break some eggs to make the trains run on time, eh Nick? The train is leaving for a future of prosperity! All aboard!

The only problem with Krisoff’s lame attempt at rehabilitation is that it is the exact opposite of reality. Mao’s land “reform” laid the ground work for mass starvation and China’s inability to feed itself for a generation.

Contrary to Kristoff’s ignorant assertion, it was Deng’s REVERSAL of Mao’s disasterous land “reform” that served as the prototype for China’s economic revival:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/lo/countries/cn/cn_overview.html

1980-1984: Special Economic Zones (SEZs) in the South and innovative agricultural reforms in the countryside fuel stunning economic growth.

And Deng justified the SEZ’s based on the success of his agricultural reforms!

How is it possible that someone so incredibly ignorant can become a mainstream op-ed columnist? Oh yeah, its the NY Times. Nevermind. This guy should be writing ANSWER pamphlets.

What will it take to kill Marxism once and for all? If I had a Flux Capacitor, I would go back in time and kill Marx and wipe out all his relatives “to the night degree.”