The Bush Administration, like virtually all recent US administrations, has had a repellently cozy relationship with the despicable Saudi regime. While our presidents feel free to criticize even the mighty Chinese for human rights abuses, they say hardly a word in public about the oil-rich Saudis, leaving the (usually mild) criticism to some low-ranking State Department official with a name no one recognizes. Meanwhile, extraordinary medieval abuses like this one continue in Saudi Arabia:
A teacher in Saudi Arabia was sentenced to 40 months in jail and 750 lashes for discussing the Bible and praising Jews.
Secondary school teacher Mohammed al-Harbi, who will be flogged in public, was taken to court by his colleagues and students, according to the Saudi newspaper Al-Madina.
He was charged with promoting a “dubious ideology, mocking religion, saying the Jews were right, discussing the Gospel and preventing students from leaving class to wash for prayer,” the newspaper disclosed.
Last week a U.S. State Department report criticized Saudi Arabia for its religious intolerance, saying religious freedoms “are denied to all but those who adhere to the state-sanctioned version of Sunni Islam.”
This report was from Newsmax, not always the most reliabe source, so I rooted around the Internet to see if this bizarre tale was true. Evidently it is. Here is a Saudi website in support of Mr. al-Harbi.
Muhammad’s lawyer is currently trying to appeal this harsh and unjust verdict. Many are still also waging a supportive campaign for Muhammad and his family (his mother and two sisters).
It is important to note that this website is made by Saudi citizens feeling for Muhammad and whole-heartedly supporting his cause for a peaceful world. Muhammad al-Harbi does not know about his website and we voluntarily dedicate this space to him, his family, and all who support him. We are praying that Muhammad’s innocence will prevail and that those who falsely accused him will be punished.
There are quite a number of links at the bottom of the page, as well as links to similar cases. Mr. Bush, time to speak out.
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16 Comments
1. Sally-O:To quibble slightly, I pretty much agree with the policy of rhetorical detente that’s been practiced with Saudi Arabia by subsequent administrations.
It’s a little (well, maybe a lot) like the awkward diplomatic tango Roosevelt danced with the Soviets during WWII.
Condemning them for their authoritarian practices may be satisfying on one level, but taking the long view we need first to leverage their cooperation, cooperation which, in the end, may result in their reform. We have smaller fish to fry before we fry the big fish (and unfortunately–and here’s the root of the problem–we’re frying all of these fish in oil).
Nov 23, 2005 - 10:16 pm 2. Syl:I think the King will pardon al-Harbi. From what I’ve read the charges were brought more because of a personal vendetta against him than from religious motivation.
Nov 24, 2005 - 12:35 am 3. Charlie (Colorado):I’m always torn on these things. On the one hand, I agree it is something that I’d like to see Bush speak about; on the other hand, is the best option for Bush to talk about it publically?
Maybe if it weren’t 4:30 in the morning I’d actually have an answer, but I don’t.
Nov 24, 2005 - 3:19 am 4. jbrookins:While it is often necessary to be pragmatic when dealing with various countries the way we have and continue to deal with Saudi Arabia is not in the long term interest of the US or any free democratic state. Their abuses are excessive and make many regimes we condemn look tame. Our diplomacy here sets some very bad examples that will undoubtedly bite us on the rear.
Yes we may have to work with them but that doesnít mean we must support them. A democracy in Saudi would go a lone way in changing the face of the Middle East and bring them into the 21st Century.
The fear seems to be the overwhelming support of more radial ideas in the Saudi population caused by the Saudi rulerís lack of attention I suppose.
What ever the reasons are the Saudi free pass needs to end soon.
Nov 24, 2005 - 6:41 pm 5. Fresh Air:Forget about the prison sentence. He’ll likely die from the 750 lashes, probably go into shock at under 200. This country is everything Osama Bin Laden wants. I wonder why he left.
Nov 24, 2005 - 8:51 pm 6. maryatexitzero:Saudi government officials like the chief justice of Saudi Arabia’s Supreme Judicial Council, Sheik Saleh Al Luhaidan are campaigning to get young Saudis to become suicide bombers in Iraq. According to the Washington Post, most of the suicide bombers who have been killing our soldiers and Iraqi citizens are Saudi .
According to a local (liberal) newspaper, Saudi religious shops are campaigning to get young Saudis to join the Jihad and blow themselves up:
These jihad recruitment shops are outnumbered only by grocery stores. The Saudi government will probably deny that they’re part of this, but are we supposed to believe that the Saudi government knows about a woman showing her ankles in Jeddah, a teacher making anti-Jihad (and therefore ‘unreligious’) statements in a classroom – but they don’t know about the countrywide jihad-cassette industry that’s bigger than Borders?
Whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, Saudi Arabia is at war with us. Fighting a war by allying with your enemy has never been a very good military strategy.
Nov 25, 2005 - 7:01 am 7. RogerA:The quicker the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia disappears from the face of the earth, the better the world will be. I spent a year in Saudi Arabia in 1988 working as a defense contractor training the saudi national guard–The money was good, but it doesnt take long living in the Kingdom to come to thorously despise them one and all.
Nov 25, 2005 - 10:08 am 8. Saudi gal:I feel sad that something like this happens in my beloved land. However, I feel equally sad to read comments from some of you talking badly about Saudi Arabia. I understand there is a lot of negative media about us out there, but I wodner how can people assumingly living in free speech countires think of another nation (millions of people) as only one thing in which all people of thier nation belong to. Can you really with clear conscious say that all Saudis are extreemists? can you truly say that you have met all the groups (culutral, political, and relgious) present in Saudi Arabia and can say what SA is?
Mr. Roger, you talk about working in Saudi Arbaia for a year and how you felt that heated us all. I wonder if you have allowed yourself to know us or did you like many other americans stayed in apartment and watched us roam the streets with our “weird” clothing? Did you try to learn some Arabic and talk to an old man, a young girl, anyone for that matter?
I remember few years back when I was learning Engish, I would go to any western looking person and start talking to him. But you know what? It always hurt me so much and broke me to pieces when some o them ran away from me and didn’t want to talk. You probably will responde with hurtful words saying that I porbably did this or that and I scared them out….but no my dear, I was the sweetest thing anyone would find. I hope you were scared of us, Roger.
One other thing I would like to explain is that I sense your great hositility toward us because we have oil. I am not sure why you are feeling like this, I don’t remember I have met one Saudi who hates American because it is this or that.
You need to think of the outside world as people of equal rights as you are and not just the “others”/….how would you feel if I say “The quicker USA disappears from the face of the earth, the better the world will be”? Isn’t this what the evil bin laden says? Are you the American Osama bin Laden, Roger?
Just please don’t let your ignorance and hatred keep you from understanding and feeling.
What happened to mohamed al-harbi is unjust we saudis try all we want to bring this to the King. He is well loved by saudis for his decency, courage, honesty, and just as well as down to earth nature.
Mohamed does not belong to the conservative bunch who are in control of the relgious courts and this is why he was harshly treated. Sadly, this is not islam but this who many of you may think; this is a perosnal grudge taken to court wearing the mask of religion and I hope it won’t be long until this case falls apart.
Nov 26, 2005 - 4:30 am 9. Saudi gal:this (I hope you were scared of us, Roger.) should read (I hope you were not scared of us, Roger.)
Nov 26, 2005 - 4:34 am 10. jbrookins:Saudi Gal, Of course all Saudis are not extreamist, just as all Iraqis are not insurgants. What is wrong is to continue support for a government the furments anger to save itself. Keeping the focus of Saudis off thier government, publicly aligning themselves with the US and all the while serving their own self intrest without regard to basic human rights. The Saudi Government is playing the world around them.
The United States should not stand shoulder to shoulder with any country (government) that continues to operate this way.
Nov 26, 2005 - 7:02 am 11. maryatexitzero:Saudi gal – One other thing I would like to explain is that I sense your great hositility toward us because we have oil. I am not sure why you are feeling like this, I don’t remember I have met one Saudi who hates American because it is this or that.
Most Americans are not hostile towards Saudi Arabia because it has oil. As a matter of fact, oil is the reason why most nations call themselves allies of the KSA, despite the many Saudi-sponsored terrorist attacks against them.
Most Americans are hostile towards Saudi Arabia because Saudi money sponsored the 9/11 attacks against the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon. Saudi money and the saudi government are currently responsible for the suicide attacks against Iraqi children, Iraqi civilians and American soldiers. Due to oil interests and other geopolitical interests, the Bush administration refuses to acknowledge the Saudi war against us (and Saudi involvment in terrorism worldwide), but the American people know.
You need to think of the outside world as people of equal rights as you are and not just the “others”/….how would you feel if I say “The quicker USA disappears from the face of the earth, the better the world will be”? Isn’t this what the evil bin laden says?
According to most polls, the majority of Saudis sympathize with bin Laden’s views.
According to a local poll in Saudi Arabia, asking average Saudis if they, as “human beings” would refuse to shake hands with a Jew, the replies were:
“Of course I wouldn’t be willing to shake hands with a Jew, for religious reasons and because of what is happening now in Palestine, and for many reasons that don’t allow me to shake a Jew’s hand.”
“Of course, so I wouldn’t have to consider amputating my hand afterwards.”
when asked “Who are the Jews” Saudis replied:
“The enemies of Allah and His Prophet.”
“The murderers of prophets. Our eternal enemies, of course.”
In the weeks after 9/11, the downtown streets and sewers were covered with a fine ash, the cremated remains of those who were lost in the attack. The air reeked of poison and death. I wondered what kind of culture could encourage that combination of cruelty and hate. As I learned more about Saudi/Wahhabi culture, knew.
What happened to mohamed al-harbi is unjust we saudis try all we want to bring this to the King. He is well loved by saudis for his decency, courage, honesty, and just as well as down to earth nature.
The King, like Hitler, has bought the love of his subjects with a generous welfare state. What happened to Mohamed al-Harbi was terribly unjust, and it was in accordance with the conservative courts and the government they represent. However, the King is very publicity-sensitive, and the King may bestow his kindness upon Mohamed al-Harbi, especially if his beneficence will be covered by al Jazeera and CNN.
The fact that this story, in contrast to the other amputations/hangings/atrocities that result from Shariah in Saudi Arabia, has gotten so much publicity in the West almost guarantees a happy, newsfriendly outcome. It would be nice if the oppression/slavery of Indonesian maids in Saudi Arabia received this kind of coverage.
You sound like a nice person. Mohamed al-harbi sounds like a nice person. I’m sure there are many nice people living in Saudi Arabia right now. There were a lot of nice people living in Germany during the Nazi era. Some protested against the ‘conservatives’ and some left the country. In the long run, they were on the right side of history.
Nov 26, 2005 - 9:30 am 12. Saudi gal:Hey all,
I am not sure what happened to the page ..it does not appear on my screen anymore; all what I see is the comment submission page .. Oh well, I am just going to type this and see if it gets submitted and I oplogize in advance for not using names since I haven’t memorized your nicknames:)
1. I read the comment about the double standard saudi government. being a gal deeply in love with poetry and literature (mind you…I love science, too:) ), I am the last one to defend any form of government. However, I am always attracted to reason and logic. For that I ask you…do you truly think governments in general are to be trusted? I mean come on it’s not like the american goevrnment has not told you stuff that are not accurate. All in all I think having the Saud is much much better than having Islamists like what’s happening now in poor Iraq where it seems that they are going for a theology.
2. As for the next commneter…oh woman woman…you are so very IGNORANT ..I laughed my lungs out when I read your comment. did you say that the saudi government funded the 9/11 and is killing the Iraqis?!!! Oh my dear gogdness …ladies and gentelmen I hereby declare this woman offically insane. I mean how dare you lie like this and go on and on about jews. so, we don’t shake hands with jews, ha? wow..this is a new one? well, then this means i am a full blown kick ass sinner since I have been friends with jews (boys and girls) and lived with a jew girl in a foregin country at one point in time.
Anyways, raw feelings aside, I suggest that you start looking for resources to reveiw other than foxnews. Stop being lazy and look for all points of veiws. .. where you can read in the Qura’n how God asks muslims to do good by the people of the book. For your informaiton, the people of the book are Christians and Jews; unlke what this lousy ass Osama is saying, God (the same God you worship if you are a christian or a jew) is not calling other believers..infeidals, muslims are ecnouraged to treat the people of the book as brothers since one Hadith says “christains, jews, and muslims are brothers from one father and different mothers)..I hope you get the point of this.
General take on things:
I personally believe that what’s going on in this world is both sad and evil. Th east does not trust the west and the west does not eiter. I really think the issue is not relgious at heart, it’s political. What many of you have not heard how many explosions we get in Saudi Arabia from those terrorists who hate the goevrnment and all who ask for tolerance as bad as you think they hate you. As a matter of fact, they even say that they hate us (the liberal bunch) more because we are part of the soceity and hence influence it. Ladies and gentelmen, if we let distrust dominate and we find comfort in bashing each other then I say Osama has won; his main goal is to get Americans out of the Middle east and to cut ties with the west. He tried to get a political position in the 80s ( I was still sucking my mother’s breast..but I read this somewhere:) ) and when the sa government refused, he vowed to hurt saudi and after the 90 war, he found his perfect reason to begin his attacks.
I sign off this post with the same line I started my earlier post: I am really sad that many Americans are reacting with so not American way against Arabs and Muslims. You have no idea how much some of girlsfriends (we are all in early 20s) would do anything for an american boyfriend and how many saudis would love to live in the us forever because they admire it. I wish you read arabic to read what many saudi journalists are writing about the need to let the many voices of saudis surface to reach people like you..they say once you know we are not osamas in the making, you will be on our side. However, i wonder how reaslistic their expectations are since obviously many of you are either ignorant and refuse to trust any new info or ideologized in one form or another.
Nov 26, 2005 - 10:21 am 13. Saudi gal:Opps…sorry about the second post…i told you my computer sucks today:)
Nov 26, 2005 - 10:25 am 14. maryatexitzero:Saudi gal – All in all I think having the Saud is much much better than having Islamists like what’s happening now in poor Iraq where it seems that they are going for a theology.
From the US State Department:
The country is ruled by a monarchy with a legal system based on Islamic law (Shari’a). The Government does not provide legal protection for freedom of religion, and such protection does not exist in practice. Islam is the official religion, and the law requires that all citizens be Muslims. The Government prohibits the public practice of non-Muslim religions. The Government recognizes the right of non-Muslims to worship in private; however, it does not always respect this right in practice and does not define this right in law.
Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state that follows Shariah law. The practice of any religion other than Islam is forbidden. Even the Taliban allowed the practice of other religions. The Wahhabi/Islamists are already in charge of the KSA.
As for the next commneter…oh woman woman…you are so very IGNORANT ..I laughed my lungs out when I read your comment. did you say that the saudi government funded the 9/11 and is killing the Iraqis?!!!
I said that Saudi money financed 9/11, a fact that’s backed up by many goverment sources.
From the Treasury Department:
U.S.-Based Branch of Al Haramain Foundation Linked to Terror
Treasury Designates U.S. Branch, Director
The Treasury Department announced today the designation of the U.S. branch of the Saudi Arabia-based Al Haramain Islamic Foundation (AHF), along with one of its directors, Suliman Al-Buthe. In addition, the AHF branch located in the Union of the Comoros was also designated today.
“We continue to use all relevant powers of the U.S. government to pursue and identify the channels of terrorist financing, such as corrupted charities, at home and abroad. Al Haramain has been used around the world to underwrite terror, therefore we have taken this action to excommunicate these two branches and Suliman Al-Buthe from the worldwide financial community,” said Stuart Levey, Treasury’s Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence.
The Saudi government has promised to fix the problem, but in fact, they haven’t, according to this government report.
An investigation into Saudi government financing of the 9/11 attacks was cut off, not because the perpetrators were found innocent, but because our government ruled that Saudi princes were immune from prosecution.
I discussed Saudi government involvement in the suicide bombing attacks in Iraq above. Note that none of the links used were from Fox News.
I mean how dare you lie like this and go on and on about jews. so, we don’t shake hands with jews, ha? wow..this is a new one? well, then this means i am a full blown kick ass sinner since I have been friends with jews (boys and girls) and lived with a jew girl in a foregin country at one point in time.
That’s nice to hear. As I said, you sound like a nice person, unlike the folks who were interviewed for that recorded TV spot. As I said, speaking out against the well-documented intolerance that exists within your own society is a healthy thing to do. Speaking out for the rights of the Jews, the Kurds, the Copts, and all people who have been oppressed by ethnic cleansing and oppression in the Middle East is a wonderful thing to do.
As for American attitudes towards the Saudis, according to polls, more than 70% of Americans realize that the KSA is not our ally. It’s not fear or intolerance, it’s not personal, it’s just an acknowledgement of a political fact.
Nov 26, 2005 - 11:01 am 15. Saudi gal:haven’t I told you, you are so ignorant?
listen woman of too much chit chat, these so called charity organizations are NOT government supported, they are independant private entities which are now closed.
By the way, I am not interested in explaining anything to you anymore. I am so proud of my dear Saudi Arabia and if you don’t like it, go run after your kids. for all I know, you are probably just another ignorant soccer mom.
General take:
people of driven ideologies do not like to know anything good about the OTHER side. They focus on the negative pictures and exaggruate them to comfort themselves. Sad…that’s all I have to say…oh Dr. Phil may have something professional for them to get over themselves and live some life ..oh I love that Bold Texas guy..right to the point…mmmm men like that are just FINE
Nov 27, 2005 - 4:13 pm 16. maryatexitzero:oh I love that Bold Texas guy..right to the point…mmmm men like that are just FINE
Dr. Phil?? whatever.
You say:
These so called charity organizations are NOT government supported, they are independant private entities which are now closed.
Yes, the Saudi people paid for the unprovoked act of war that was 9/11, but you’re entirely wrong, those charities are not closed.
As of May 2005, Stuart Levey, Under Secretary Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, of the U.S. Department of the Treasury said:
“In addition to the export of terrorist funds from Saudi Arabia, we are extremely concerned with the export of terrorist ideologies that promote war and killing in the name of religion. These distorted ideologies are just as indispensable to terrorists as money, and possibly even more pernicious. We must do all we can to ensure that extremist, violent ideologies are not exported under the cover of religious organizations, charities, or schools.”
“We have also been advocating and eagerly anticipating the establishment of a Saudi FIU. The interaction of FIUs worldwide form the basis for cooperative action based on suspicious activity reports. When I testified here in August, I informed you that we had not seen progress on this front. And, despite some assurances of progress, Chairman Kelly recently confirmed that there still is no operational FIU in Saudi Arabia. Given the concentration of financial activity in Saudi Arabia and the grim reality of terrorist activity in its own cities, the lack of an FIU must be remedied, and we will continue to press for its establishment.”
The so-called Saudi charity al Haramain has been active in the “Jihadi corridor” of Bangladesh, Myanmar and Thailand.
Al Haramain is also active in Bosnia, where they’ve whited out their old name and reopened under the name “Vazir”. The new organization was registered as an “association for sport, culture and education.”
Account 98 is the bank account used by the Saudi government to collect donations for the support of terrorism. They’ve been telling the US that this account no longer exists. It does.
Despite Saudi support of the hateful ideology of Wahhabism and terrorism, governments around the world are willing to be allied with the KSA because they have oil. When the oil runs out, so will the alliances.
Nov 28, 2005 - 9:03 am