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	<title>Comments on: High Sierra</title>
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		<title>By: freetotem</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69930</link>
		<dc:creator>freetotem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69930</guid>
		<description>&quot;I used to be for Kyoto, but now find it too politically-motivated and essentially anti-environmental in its complete inability to deal with the world&#039;s fastest growing economies.&quot;





It&#039;s not just the &quot;inability&quot; of Kyoto to deal with these countries. It&#039;s that the proponents of Kyoto have no serious interest in doing so. That is because Kyoto, like much of today&#039;s so-called environmentalism, isn&#039;t about science (since, for example, China&#039;s coal furnaces are a far larger problem than U.S. SUVs) but about Earth worship and anti-capitalism. Environmentalism has become the last refuge of the Marxists. The U.S. must especially be contained because it is the biggest sinner, being the most successful capitalist. The SUV is the symbol of global warming because it represents the sins of capitalism and &quot;greed.&quot; We have indulged, and we will be punished by a Higher Power, now &quot;the Planet,&quot; rather than God, by apocaplypse. Ancient apocalyptic myth, combined with inchoate Earth worship and the tattered end game of global Marxism. That is what Kyoto represents.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I used to be for Kyoto, but now find it too politically-motivated and essentially anti-environmental in its complete inability to deal with the world&#8217;s fastest growing economies.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just the &#8220;inability&#8221; of Kyoto to deal with these countries. It&#8217;s that the proponents of Kyoto have no serious interest in doing so. That is because Kyoto, like much of today&#8217;s so-called environmentalism, isn&#8217;t about science (since, for example, China&#8217;s coal furnaces are a far larger problem than U.S. SUVs) but about Earth worship and anti-capitalism. Environmentalism has become the last refuge of the Marxists. The U.S. must especially be contained because it is the biggest sinner, being the most successful capitalist. The SUV is the symbol of global warming because it represents the sins of capitalism and &#8220;greed.&#8221; We have indulged, and we will be punished by a Higher Power, now &#8220;the Planet,&#8221; rather than God, by apocaplypse. Ancient apocalyptic myth, combined with inchoate Earth worship and the tattered end game of global Marxism. That is what Kyoto represents.</p>
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		<title>By: freetotem</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69929</link>
		<dc:creator>freetotem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69929</guid>
		<description>&quot;I used to be for Kyoto, but now find it too politically-motivated and essentially anti-environmental in its complete inability to deal with the world&#039;s fastest growing economies.&quot;





It&#039;s not just the &quot;inability&quot; of Kyoto to deal with these countries. It&#039;s that the proponents of Kyoto have no serious interest in doing so. That is because Kyoto, like much of today&#039;s so-called environmentalism, isn&#039;t about science (since, for example, China&#039;s coal furnaces are a far larger problem than U.S. SUVs) but about Earth worship and anti-capitalism. Environmentalism has become the last refuge of the Marxists. The U.S. must especially be contained because it is the biggest sinner, being the most successful capitalist. The SUV is the symbol of global warming because it represents the sins of capitalism and &quot;greed.&quot; We have indulged, and we will be punished by a Higher Power, now &quot;the Planet,&quot; rather than God, by apocaplypse. Ancient apocalyptic myth, combined with inchoate Earth worship and the tattered end game of global Marxism. That is what Kyoto represents.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I used to be for Kyoto, but now find it too politically-motivated and essentially anti-environmental in its complete inability to deal with the world&#8217;s fastest growing economies.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just the &#8220;inability&#8221; of Kyoto to deal with these countries. It&#8217;s that the proponents of Kyoto have no serious interest in doing so. That is because Kyoto, like much of today&#8217;s so-called environmentalism, isn&#8217;t about science (since, for example, China&#8217;s coal furnaces are a far larger problem than U.S. SUVs) but about Earth worship and anti-capitalism. Environmentalism has become the last refuge of the Marxists. The U.S. must especially be contained because it is the biggest sinner, being the most successful capitalist. The SUV is the symbol of global warming because it represents the sins of capitalism and &#8220;greed.&#8221; We have indulged, and we will be punished by a Higher Power, now &#8220;the Planet,&#8221; rather than God, by apocaplypse. Ancient apocalyptic myth, combined with inchoate Earth worship and the tattered end game of global Marxism. That is what Kyoto represents.</p>
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		<title>By: corbusier</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69928</link>
		<dc:creator>corbusier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69928</guid>
		<description>It always strikes me as snobbish to declare that the president has no appreciation of the environment. President Bush is probably one of the most in tune of all presidents with nature at the personal level. Few seem to realize just how he likes to spend his free time: clearing brush at his ranch (which is more of a quiet nature preserve than a place to herd cattle) going mountain-biking on ungroomed trails, and resting at his ecologically-designed ranch house, which collects rainwater and maximizes shade and daylight for more efficient climate control. The man likes to talk about the flat western landscape of his youth, and looks quite uncomfortable enjoying fancy cities, preferring to be out in the country instead. The main fallicy of many environmentalists is that everyone would have the same opinions on how to improve the environment if they would just interact with nature a bit more. I find that those who spend their life with nature acquire different views about protecting and managing the environment. They should be listened to.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It always strikes me as snobbish to declare that the president has no appreciation of the environment. President Bush is probably one of the most in tune of all presidents with nature at the personal level. Few seem to realize just how he likes to spend his free time: clearing brush at his ranch (which is more of a quiet nature preserve than a place to herd cattle) going mountain-biking on ungroomed trails, and resting at his ecologically-designed ranch house, which collects rainwater and maximizes shade and daylight for more efficient climate control. The man likes to talk about the flat western landscape of his youth, and looks quite uncomfortable enjoying fancy cities, preferring to be out in the country instead. The main fallicy of many environmentalists is that everyone would have the same opinions on how to improve the environment if they would just interact with nature a bit more. I find that those who spend their life with nature acquire different views about protecting and managing the environment. They should be listened to.</p>
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		<title>By: chip</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69927</link>
		<dc:creator>chip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69927</guid>
		<description>US emissions declined in the period measured.



Kyoto signee Canada saw its emissions not only rise, but rise above its promised target.



Response from the Canadian environmentalist?



Blame America.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>US emissions declined in the period measured.</p>
<p>Kyoto signee Canada saw its emissions not only rise, but rise above its promised target.</p>
<p>Response from the Canadian environmentalist?</p>
<p>Blame America.</p>
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		<title>By: cathyf</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69926</link>
		<dc:creator>cathyf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69926</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Wait a minute. The US economy grew at a fairly good clip under the Bush administration and yet greenhouse emissions actually went down? How could that have happened?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Perhaps this is just a another typical case of a journalist mangling the scientist&#039;s words.  There&#039;s emissions, and there&#039;s &lt;i&gt;net&lt;/i&gt; emissions.  I live in the corn belt, where each year we watch corn plants go from bare dirt to 10 feet tall in about 6 weeks.  Every single carbon atom in every single cell in every single one of those 10-foot-tall corn plants gets into the plant by sucking a CO2 molecule out of the air.  Our agriculture is incredibly productive, and gets more productive every year.  Farmers drip ammonia onto the fields, which means that the tonnage of CO2 sucked out of the air per acre goes up and up over time.  Less productive land is continuously taken out of production (witness the depopulation of western South Dakota, for example.)  It used to be (and still is in the developing world) that in order to get 700 bushels of corn, you needed 20 acres.  Now you have 700 bushels of corn on 4 acres, and 16 acres of prairie grass, trees, and various random weeds.  And all of that grass, trees and weeds sucks CO2 out of the air, too.



We may be the world&#039;s biggest non-natural emitter of greenhouse gasses, but we&#039;re also by far the world&#039;s largest absorber of them, too.  But under Kyoto we get no credit for removing CO2 from the air, and no credit for increasing the amount of CO2 we remove from the air.



Then there&#039;s this crap:&lt;blockquote&gt;world&#039;s biggest polluter&lt;/blockquote&gt;This is only true if you define CO2 as &quot;pollution.&quot;  Which is very dangerous hogwash, in that it allows people to increase &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; pollution in order to decrease CO2 emissions.



cathy :-)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Wait a minute. The US economy grew at a fairly good clip under the Bush administration and yet greenhouse emissions actually went down? How could that have happened?</p></blockquote>
<p>Perhaps this is just a another typical case of a journalist mangling the scientist&#8217;s words.  There&#8217;s emissions, and there&#8217;s <i>net</i> emissions.  I live in the corn belt, where each year we watch corn plants go from bare dirt to 10 feet tall in about 6 weeks.  Every single carbon atom in every single cell in every single one of those 10-foot-tall corn plants gets into the plant by sucking a CO2 molecule out of the air.  Our agriculture is incredibly productive, and gets more productive every year.  Farmers drip ammonia onto the fields, which means that the tonnage of CO2 sucked out of the air per acre goes up and up over time.  Less productive land is continuously taken out of production (witness the depopulation of western South Dakota, for example.)  It used to be (and still is in the developing world) that in order to get 700 bushels of corn, you needed 20 acres.  Now you have 700 bushels of corn on 4 acres, and 16 acres of prairie grass, trees, and various random weeds.  And all of that grass, trees and weeds sucks CO2 out of the air, too.</p>
<p>We may be the world&#8217;s biggest non-natural emitter of greenhouse gasses, but we&#8217;re also by far the world&#8217;s largest absorber of them, too.  But under Kyoto we get no credit for removing CO2 from the air, and no credit for increasing the amount of CO2 we remove from the air.</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s this crap:<br />
<blockquote>world&#8217;s biggest polluter</p></blockquote>
<p>This is only true if you define CO2 as &#8220;pollution.&#8221;  Which is very dangerous hogwash, in that it allows people to increase <i>real</i> pollution in order to decrease CO2 emissions.</p>
<p>cathy <img src='http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stace</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69925</link>
		<dc:creator>Stace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69925</guid>
		<description>Leftists tend to be more concerned with process than results. If a good policy comes to pass, I don&#039;t give a damn which political party did it or for what reasons. That&#039;s why even though I&#039;m a member of a dozen or so conservation organizations, Sierra Club and Greenpeace are not among them. The groups I belong to try to work with whatever party is in power.



An example: A couple of years ago the Corps of Engineers was planning to change the classification of certain smaller wetland units, which would have made them vunerable to destruction. The American Wildlife Conservation Partners, a consortium of hunting groups, wangled an invitation to the Whitehouse to talk with the President, and got to sit down with him for an hour. They persuaded him to deep-six the Corps proposal. That&#039;s the kind of results you can get when you don&#039;t think of the president as Chimpy McHitlerburton.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leftists tend to be more concerned with process than results. If a good policy comes to pass, I don&#8217;t give a damn which political party did it or for what reasons. That&#8217;s why even though I&#8217;m a member of a dozen or so conservation organizations, Sierra Club and Greenpeace are not among them. The groups I belong to try to work with whatever party is in power.</p>
<p>An example: A couple of years ago the Corps of Engineers was planning to change the classification of certain smaller wetland units, which would have made them vunerable to destruction. The American Wildlife Conservation Partners, a consortium of hunting groups, wangled an invitation to the Whitehouse to talk with the President, and got to sit down with him for an hour. They persuaded him to deep-six the Corps proposal. That&#8217;s the kind of results you can get when you don&#8217;t think of the president as Chimpy McHitlerburton.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Sabin</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69924</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Sabin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69924</guid>
		<description>Being a big fan of facts, I spend a lot of time reviewing temperature data.  Check out the temps for LA since 1880 at the NASA/GISS &lt;a href=&quot;http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=425722950003&amp;data_set=1&amp;num_neighbors=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;site.



The temps have been dropping pretty much since the President came into office.  Oh, the irony!&lt;/a&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a big fan of facts, I spend a lot of time reviewing temperature data.  Check out the temps for LA since 1880 at the NASA/GISS <a href="http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=425722950003&amp;data_set=1&amp;num_neighbors=1" rel="nofollow">site.</p>
<p>The temps have been dropping pretty much since the President came into office.  Oh, the irony!</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ari Tai</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69923</link>
		<dc:creator>Ari Tai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69923</guid>
		<description>re: radical environmentalism.  I don&#039;t understand why Mr. Bush (and the previous Senate vote) doesn&#039;t get more credit for taking a principled position that argues for keeping the government out of the business of promoting a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote05.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;religion.&lt;/a&gt;  In his September Senate &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/senate.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;testimony&lt;/a&gt; Mr. (Dr.) Crichton describes how the non-science and politicization of this debate debases all science (and increases risks and danger to the populace v. the obverse).



re: climate fear mongering, esp. &quot;rising oceans&quot; dispossessing the poor..  I&#039;m reminded of how often the well-intentioned political process yields unintended results.  It could well be that any actual warming (up to another 20, if not 50+(!) degrees C :-) will reduce the height of the ocean (as warmer southern ocean water puts more moisture over the world&#039;s coldest continent-sized high plateau - where it&#039;s a balmy MINUS 20C in mid-summer - i.e. Antarctica).  And our ability to model and predict past Antarctic history for this &quot;simple&quot; question is little better than tossing a coin.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: radical environmentalism.  I don&#8217;t understand why Mr. Bush (and the previous Senate vote) doesn&#8217;t get more credit for taking a principled position that argues for keeping the government out of the business of promoting a <a href="http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote05.html" rel="nofollow">religion.</a>  In his September Senate <a href="http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/senate.html" rel="nofollow">testimony</a> Mr. (Dr.) Crichton describes how the non-science and politicization of this debate debases all science (and increases risks and danger to the populace v. the obverse).</p>
<p>re: climate fear mongering, esp. &#8220;rising oceans&#8221; dispossessing the poor..  I&#8217;m reminded of how often the well-intentioned political process yields unintended results.  It could well be that any actual warming (up to another 20, if not 50+(!) degrees C <img src='http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  will reduce the height of the ocean (as warmer southern ocean water puts more moisture over the world&#8217;s coldest continent-sized high plateau &#8211; where it&#8217;s a balmy MINUS 20C in mid-summer &#8211; i.e. Antarctica).  And our ability to model and predict past Antarctic history for this &#8220;simple&#8221; question is little better than tossing a coin.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Nieporent</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69922</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Nieporent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69922</guid>
		<description>The Sierra Club, like the ACLU, at one time served a useful purpose. Now it is simply an advocate for Left-wing political causes many of which have precious little to do with the environment.  The Kyoto treaty is a political document, not a scientific document. Its purpose is to damage the US economy. The CO2 numbers were originally set by the Europeans so that they could meet the Kyoto goals without damaging their economies while having a major impact on the US economy. (It turns out they miscalculated the numbers and they are also having trouble meeting the goals.) By excluding the developing nations such as China and India, it shows that the Kyoto treaty is not a serious document. The Kyoto treaty is just a way of wrapping the same old Left wing charge that the US is using more than their &quot;fair share&quot; of the world&#039;s resources in a pseudo-scientific box. In effect, it is very much like the attempt to use Intelligent Design as a means of giving a scientific facade to Creationism. Only in this case we are using the &quot;science&quot; of global warming as a way of attacking the US.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Sierra Club, like the ACLU, at one time served a useful purpose. Now it is simply an advocate for Left-wing political causes many of which have precious little to do with the environment.  The Kyoto treaty is a political document, not a scientific document. Its purpose is to damage the US economy. The CO2 numbers were originally set by the Europeans so that they could meet the Kyoto goals without damaging their economies while having a major impact on the US economy. (It turns out they miscalculated the numbers and they are also having trouble meeting the goals.) By excluding the developing nations such as China and India, it shows that the Kyoto treaty is not a serious document. The Kyoto treaty is just a way of wrapping the same old Left wing charge that the US is using more than their &#8220;fair share&#8221; of the world&#8217;s resources in a pseudo-scientific box. In effect, it is very much like the attempt to use Intelligent Design as a means of giving a scientific facade to Creationism. Only in this case we are using the &#8220;science&#8221; of global warming as a way of attacking the US.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Poinsett</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69921</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Poinsett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2005/11/28/high-sierra/#comment-69921</guid>
		<description>Bush knew what he was doing in not championing that anti-US Treaty. If Bill Clinton and Al Gore couldn&#039;t get even one pro vote in the senate that they controlled, what were Bush&#039;s chances. Today signatories like the UK and New Zealand are having serious second thoughts and are planning to opt out at the earliest. 2012, I think.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush knew what he was doing in not championing that anti-US Treaty. If Bill Clinton and Al Gore couldn&#8217;t get even one pro vote in the senate that they controlled, what were Bush&#8217;s chances. Today signatories like the UK and New Zealand are having serious second thoughts and are planning to opt out at the earliest. 2012, I think.</p>
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