Some have said the most important battles in the Iraq War are being fought in the news rooms of New York, Washington and Los Angeles. We are indeed in a propaganda war and our primary target is our fellow citizens. This morning’s post on Pajamas Media has several reminders of this, most noteworthy of which is a link to an AP story that seems to have slipped completely under the wire: Iraq suicide blasts at lowest level in 7 months. Of course you won’t be finding this in the NYT whose lead story at the moment is Profusion of Rebel Groups Helps Them Survive in Iraq (talk about the obvious).
Meanwhile, last night’s Neal Cavuto Show on Fox offered the possibility that Wall Street knows something the New York Times doesn’t - that we are winning the War in Iraq and that accounts for the recent stock market run-up. The holiday bounce is also a (coming) victory bounce. Excuse me for being a little skeptical on that one, but, to be honest, still a tad less skeptical than I am of the constant “cheering for darkness” that goes on in most of our major media. Wall Street often has the ability to predict booms and busts in our economy. Why not this?
UPDATE: Of course, as BizzyBlog points out, 43% of America thinks we’re in a recession.
PJM Home
118 Comments
1. Esbiem:Esbiem and Elgin Tyrell have gotten together and posted a photorial on the state of mind of the media and liberal democrates versus the reality experienced by mainstream Americans as of late vis-a-vis the GWOT in Iraq and the booming economy. You won’t want to miss it, and since it is a graphic depiction we can’t post it here, you’ll have to view it at http://www.elgintyrell.com
Dec 2, 2005 - 7:30 am 2. Camp Runamok:Roger,
Hate to bust your bubble but the “Iraq suicide blasts at lowest level in 7 months” story was on top of MSNBC news’ home page all day yesterday. MSNBC, as a component of GE and a news partner of WaPo and SNoozeweek is as MSM as they get and they were not silencing that angle.
AFA the NYT’s angle goes, well, that’s the flip side of freedom of the press…
Dec 2, 2005 - 7:43 am 3. monkyboy:On the other hand, the last 2 months were the 5th and 6th worst months for U.S. soldier deaths since the “war” began 33 months(almost 3 years) ago…
Dec 2, 2005 - 7:48 am 4. Keith_Indy:Numbers without contexts mean very little in the grand scheme of things.
How many of those deaths were the result of direct combat, vs accidents, vs terrorist attack?
One thing you will notice is that when we engage in direct combat, soldiers die.
Dec 2, 2005 - 7:58 am 5. Sandy P:Ray Fair’s updated his Fairmodel.
Barring terrorism and other unforseen consequences, 2006 looking really good.
Unemployment under 5%.
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:00 am 6. Seamus Furr:Yeah! There were fewer suicide bombers in November than in October, but more than in April! Alright!!!
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:59 am 7. Seamus Furr:Yeah! There were fewer suicide bombers in November than in October, but more than in April! Alright!!!
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:59 am 8. Buddy Larsen:Cavuto’s right–that’s a great ‘business’ line-up over there, BTW–but CNBC is a strong rival with Kudlow & Cramer. But the stock mkts are such a huge sampling of mover & shaker opinion, that the link you’re wondering about is really self-evident.
Victory or defeat–as War & Peace–are the tools building the globe’s future–and the mkts are all about ‘discounting’ (acting-out predictions in the jargon) that future.
The determination of victory vs defeat is as much an act of will as investing vs consuming, or building one’s enterprise life vs using it for what it’s woth currently.
The current hearts & minds struggle–whether in the gunpowder streets of Baghdad or the ink canyons of blue America–follows the same form.
The growth of the future vs the comfort of the present.
Or, in a word, “sacrifice”.
But to sacrifice, there must be a reason. And, aye, there’s the rub.
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:40 am 9. David Thomson:ìWall Street often has the ability to predict booms and busts in our economy.î
More importantly, Wall Street is comprised of indivual investors betting their own money on the future. Even liberal Democrats shy away from making decisions based soley on ideology. Money talks and bovine excrement walks.
“Yeah! There were fewer suicide bombers in November than in October, but more than in April! Alright!!!”
Just do the math. There are around 27 million people living in Iraq. The terrorists are able to murder less than 17,000 per year. That is far less than 1% of the total population. The terrorists long ago lost the war. They are now only able to slow the pace of progress. In many parts of Iraq, especially in the Kurdish areas, the economy is starting to boom.
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:41 am 10. Buddy Larsen:Right–just google the data–numbers don’t lie, and as David says, even ideology takes a bath before playing with money. Check the Iraqi markets–stocks, bonds, real-estate, enterprise (new biz formations), media, financial institutions, everywhere you look, the phoenix is arising.
The terrorists are Bird Flu. They’ll kill fewer people the stronger the medicine.
Of course, Bird Flu would kill everybody on the planet if we let such a rancid Rev. Jim Jones doppelganger as JFKerry con us into drinking the virus-Koolaide.
“Bottoms UP!”
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:22 am 11. PeterUK:The defeatist propaganda,let us call it by its proper name,from the MSM and the Loyal Opposition is left hollow by the principle of the,”Dog that didn’t bark in the night”.
Defeat would be the major story on all the front pages,but there are none of the signs of this.
There are no pictures of transparts being loaded,body bags on an enless conveyer belt,no little Iraqi shepherd body guarding “broken” coalition soldiers in razor wire enclosures.
There is none of the frantic shuffling between the worlds capitals and the UN to broker a ceasefire.
Absent too are the interviews with triumphant “rebel” leaders,lastly there are no helicopters lifting of the embassy roof.
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:49 am 12. OJ:Heard your comments on Pajamas Media on NPR/KPCC Roger. Nice!
On Iraq:
It is sad to have to conclude that the current attitudes towards the war prevalent in the US is the direct result of the MSM deciding long before the first shot was fired to cover the story with an anti-war bias.
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:58 am 13. dougf:Absent too are the interviews with triumphant “rebel” leaders,lastly there are no helicopters lifting of the embassy roof –PeterUK
At the NYTs (aka Amoral Perfidy Ground Zero), there are ALWAYS helicopters lifting off the embassy roof.
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:17 am 14. WichitaBoy:Please remind me again, I keep forgetting. Why are we still reading the Slimes?
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:28 am 15. Buddy Larsen:WB, that’s a damn good question.
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:47 am 16. promoguy:“Heard your comments on Pajamas Media on NPR/KPCC Roger. Nice! ”
I didn’t hear the comments so can’t react to whether they were “nice”.
But NPR and KPCC. We’re talking about a radio station that celebrates:
1. Che Gueverra
2. Tookie Williams
Say it isn’t so….KPCC. My radio can’t even pick it up.
Dec 2, 2005 - 12:01 pm 17. Skookumchuk:WB, Buddy:
It is close to - I think - our second anniversary.
Our second anniversary of my convincing my wife that the NYT had to go.
Since replaced by Field and Stream.
Dec 2, 2005 - 12:13 pm 18. Fresh Air:A proper tally of all the things the MSM has misreported, slanted or out-and-out falsified since Sept. 11, 2001 would rival the Encylopedia Brittania in length.
Just since 2004, the media has fabricated at least a dozen “scandals” that are supposed to reflect badly on the president. Proof that this downpour has had some effect can seen in the fact that nearly half of the population believes we are still in a recession–something we exited well over a year ago.
I take great solace in the fact that the Internet is changing the MSM’s ability to shield the truth. However, the appalling media behavior during Hurricane Katrina and the fact the it has yet to be fully called on it (indeed many people still don’t know the truth about New Orleans) is sobering. We still have a great deal of work to do before the large percentage of the population that is too lazy to dig for news has any idea of the difference between reality and the MSM’s version.
I would greatly relish it if Bush would insert, oh, 10 or 12 jabs at the press in his State of the Union Address. Maybe announce a new office that will decoct, deconstruct and debunk every single Iraq war “news” story published by the Associated Press, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the LA Times and the the nets plus CNN. The situation can’t get more antagonistic anyway. He has nothing to lose. Plus the public holds the military in far higher esteem than journalists.
Dec 2, 2005 - 12:43 pm 19. syn:If Big Brother says the ecomony is bad then the ecomony is bad. Same applies to the Iraq War and just about everything else under the blackout bubble.
NPR what a nasty bit of Big Brother disease.
Dec 2, 2005 - 1:07 pm 20. syn:If Big Brother says the economy is bad then the economy is bad. Same applies to the Iraq War and just about everything else under the blackout bubble.
NPR what a nasty bit of Big Brother disease.
Dec 2, 2005 - 1:08 pm 21. Buddy Larsen:Fresh Air, per your last para–at least there’s this dedicated, time-tested step in the right direction, the leftoid bete-noire Accuracy in Media.
Dec 2, 2005 - 1:26 pm 22. monkyboy:So, let’s see, we’re supposed to believe these two things at the same time:
1. We’re engaged in an endless war against foes that at any moment could destroy America with nuclear weapons!
and
2. Don’t worry! Be happy! The future is looking brighter and brighter!
Hmm.
Dec 2, 2005 - 2:10 pm 23. Buddy Larsen:Another utter reductio ad absurdum.
Besides, why haven’t you waved your magic wand, and made #1 go away? Oops! You can’t, can you? Sooo, who can? That’s right…the terrorists–the enemy–can. But WE–the attacked–can’t.
#2, okay, if pessimism about the future is the way to “be happy”, then I’m just stoopid, I never knew that.
Dec 2, 2005 - 2:53 pm 24. Charlie (Colorado):Monkeyboy, I’d say “thank you for playing” except that I’m frankly tired of playing with morons.
As you might imagine, you can’t have both of the statements you imagine at the same time. In a display of — something — nearly unmatched in recent times, however, you’ve managed to posit two contradictory notions and get both of them wrong.
First, we’re engaged in a long-running, but not endless, war. In fact, given the accumulating good news from the region, we may have a considerably shorter war than I first thought; rather shorter than the Cold War. The Iraq campaign is (contrary to the usual news coverage) is actually doing well, and following the very plan that Bush has articulated over and over again over the last 18 months. You know, the one that was “there is no plan” until Bush finally did a speech that forced coverage, and then became “old news, nothing new”. That campaign, far from being a “disaster” and a “quagmire”, is by objective measure one of the most successful wars in all of recorded history, and a victory that has to stand with Zama and Yorktown.
Second, there isn’t anyone saying “don’t worry, be happy”. There are real problems out there: Iran and North Korea, various demographic “bombs” like the sexual imbalance in China and the low borth rates in Europe, and a few pandemic or potentially pandemic bugs around.
All of those are actually low-probability. A little research will show why, but honestly I don’t think there’s a lot of sign you’d actually listen, so I’m not going to put in the work to document them. In any case, though, what we do know is that markets are amazingly “smart” at predictions. If you look at the real data, the economy is booming, and in a more sustainable fashion than the end of the dot-com boom; Bush has already chocked up a far better record economically than Clinton.
Again, by real data, rather than the rumors and complaints that get passed around in the press and on some of the left-leaning web sites.
Dec 2, 2005 - 3:02 pm 25. Rodger S.:Pajamas Media is still a waste of time. I will continue to check in on it once a week in the hope it will arise from its boring sleep. Rodger S.
Dec 2, 2005 - 3:18 pm 26. Buddy Larsen:Charlie, your word ‘frankly’ reminded me of the two old maids who finally decided to be Frank with each other. And, we may all be way too high up in the forest canopy to find any bananas for the monkeyboy (who’s probably an ape, anyway, since he apes arguments and can’t spell ‘monkey’).
Dec 2, 2005 - 3:19 pm 27. Steven Mitchell:“First, we’re engaged in a long-running, but not endless, war. In fact, given the accumulating good news from the region, we may have a considerably shorter war than I first thought; rather shorter than the Cold War.”
Except that the more success we have, the more the left feels safe in their delusions. If we don’t have a reverse in 2008, we will have one in 2012, 2016, etc. On the other hand, if we knock the jihadis down far enough, four years of “peace dividend” is just long enough to draw attention to themselves, instead of building back up where they can really mount a threat.
Of course, the real rub is the Iraqs themselves. They know it, Bush knows it, and the jihadis know it. I’m really curious just how much attention an Iraqi democracy will pay to the monkeyboy-type prattle. I predict little, which will make your optimism warranted.
Dec 2, 2005 - 3:20 pm 28. monkyboy:I agree that things are looking up for wealthy Americans.
According to the Fed:
The wealthiest 1% of American families own 50% of the stocks held by Americans.
The wealthiest 20% of American families own 96% of the shares held by Americans.
So, the bottom 80% of American families own 4% of the shares held by Americans.
How excited should they be about a debt- and war-fueled rise in the stock market?
On the income side of the economy, income is rising, but median income has been flat for 6 years.
Again, how excited should the average American be that CEOs are taking home more than ever while their income has stagnated?
Dec 2, 2005 - 3:28 pm 29. Fresh Air:Monky–
You haven’t proved your point. Keep digging. You’ll see much to your apparent dismay that real incomes are rising across the board except among those at the very bottom of society. These people rely primarily upon government programs for their subsistence and hence, are unlikely to experience growth in their earnings.
Cheers!
Dec 2, 2005 - 3:46 pm 30. photoncourier.blogspot.com:Stock ownership statistics cited by the above primate do not, I feel confident, include the following: Very large amounts of stock are owned by corporate defined-benefit contribution plans, and all of the value of that stock will sooner or later go to pay pension benefits to the employees who are members of those plans. It would be interesting to see what the cited numbers would look like when corrected for the imputed value of that indirect ownership.
Dec 2, 2005 - 3:47 pm 31. Fresh Air:One other thing, those same fortunate few who own all the stock in this country pay most of the taxes, too. Imagine that.
Marx would be so pleased.
Dec 2, 2005 - 3:54 pm 32. Rick Ballard:It is reactionary to use the narrative template of seditionist propaganda organs to define events. There can be no “new” media until it defines its own narrative template. Until that time it is reduced to being a simple oppositional force willing to define itself on its opponents terms.
Why should the names of the seditionist organs even be mentioned? They do not exist in my house nor does their version of reality impinge upon the reality of my daily existence.
Field & Stream beats seditionist trash all day long. The people who write for Field & Stream at least know what a trout or a deer look like. The people writing for the seditionist rags have given ample proof that they know nothing at all.
Do your bit - cancel a subscription and push a putton. Seditionist outlets are unworthy of your support - or of mention in decent company.
Dec 2, 2005 - 3:54 pm 33. syn:Gee Monkeyboy has justified the necessity for privatizing Social Security, no? Personally, I would love everyone in America to have access to long term investments so that we don’t have to hear the likes of Monekyewiner for the rest of our lives.
Dec 2, 2005 - 3:59 pm 34. PeterUK:Of course Monkyboy…let’s party like it was 1939!
Dec 2, 2005 - 4:04 pm 35. Steven Mitchell:Rick, agreed. After reading a couple of “news” magazines for the better part of a decade, I knew what they would say before I even cracked the cover. Why waste the time?
Fresh Air, I don’t think your advice to our new primate friend was very helpful. I thought the first rule of thumb for people in his situation was to “stop digging”. (Yes, I know that isn’t what you meant.)
Dec 2, 2005 - 4:04 pm 36. Rick Ballard:Steven,
I simply do not understand why new media should pay attention to dying media. In the last election dying media pulled all stops, rented every liar available, cooked up phony stories on a daily basis - and lost. Not just the Presidency - they lost accross the board. The weight of talk radio and the internet defeated the most massive propaganda effort since WWII.
Dying media has responded by becoming objectively aligned with al Queada. Terrorism must prevail in order that the party which it supports can have one more wretched fling at regaining power.
Why anyone retaining a degree of sanity would give a dime or a moments notice to the last gasp is simply beyond me. I am aware that old habits die hard but this is ridiculous.
Dec 2, 2005 - 4:28 pm 37. Fresh Air:Rick–
The New Criterion, Claremont Review of Books, American Angler and Fine Woodworking are all about all I can stand now.
Dec 2, 2005 - 5:08 pm 38. Skookumchuk:Fresh Air:
Fine Woodworking, yes! I forgot, it replaced the New York Review of Books. Or did the Cowboy Action Shooting newsmagazine replace the NYRB?
And of course The Rodder’s Journal replaced Harper’s.
American Angler, huh?
Dec 2, 2005 - 5:28 pm 39. Fresh Air:Skook–
American Angler, huh?
It’s what you hunting types would call a “technical” magazine. Only one first-person story per issue! All the rest is how-to. We catch-and-release conservationists have to have something to read while we wait for the snows to melt.
Re the NYRB: Bite your tongue! That rag never saw the bottom of my garbage can, much less my mailbox. I’m disgusted that Joan Didion is writing for it. She used to be more or less a voice of sanity. I guess getting old and hanging around the contributing editors to Vanity Fair will do that to you.
It’s an awfully long time since The White Album.
Dec 2, 2005 - 6:04 pm 40. monkyboy:Rick,
I’m not sure what you mean when you say “new” media shouldn’t pay attention to “dying” media.
The “new” media, both right and left, mainly reprint AP stories that support their political viewpoint and ignore stories that don’t.
Are you saying blogs are going to start hiring reporters to gather news instead of just commenting on others’ work?
Dec 2, 2005 - 6:04 pm 41. Stacy Rosenbaum:“So, the bottom 80% of American families own 4% of the shares held by Americans.”
Stock ownership by average Americans is a big scam being perpetrated by right wing interest in order to brainswash the middle class into thinking that their interests like with the wealthy. So they jump up and down for great joy when their stocks go up a hundred dollars, but meanwhile their jobs are being exported to China.
Dec 2, 2005 - 6:07 pm 42. Buddy Larsen:Monkyboy–first, how long have you aspired to monk-hood? Second, let me introduce you to the central zone of capitalism: ‘growth’.
The culturally valuable result of such motion is called ‘upward mobility’.
UM validates the whole concept. It’s the proof of the condition known as ‘opportunity’.
It may not be working that well for you, but is that a reason to deny it to us hordes of schleppers who stupidly regard it as a first principle?
Hie thee back to the stacks, and learn that the IRS using census data reports that between censii, 85% of the lowest bracket moved up and out, to be replaced by a younger (younger–get it?) cohort.
Parlous-close to the old 80-20 rule, bringing to mind the 20% of the population with BDS, no ambition except to control the 80%, no education-driven utility, a strange atavistic urge to be deliberately brainless in the noble-savage fashion, and beset by a pathological Sorosian incentive to be always against everything that the other 80% of the polity is trying to do.
Hillary is going to ruin you folks–just wait and see. It won’t be pretty, and is as sure as G*d made little green apples. This will be the Great Clinton Atonement–Hillary’s destruction of the entirely vestigial (to the 21st century) and utterly toxic left-wing of her party.
Dec 2, 2005 - 6:16 pm 43. Sandy P:And aren’t about 60% of working Americans in some kind of retirement plan?
So do your stats include this or are those stats just from personal accounts at brokerages? If my retirement program is held by my company, how do they know how much I have?
401ks really started taking off in the mid-80s and opened stock ownership wide up for millions of middle- and lower-class Americans. Why do you think companies are now starting opt-out of their retirement program instead of opt-in? Why do you think there are more wealthy people? We’ve had almost 25 years of opportunity. And I’m a lot wealthier now than 25 years ago.
My mom remembers in the 70s when she didn’t have a money market cos those were only for the wealthy. It was a high $ barrier to join.
I opened mine up when I 1st started working in the mid-80s. Made $14,500/yr and managed to save either $500 or $1000 to open 1 up.
And I was paying either $30 or $60/m for my health care then and started putting 3.75% (max) of my salary away into the 401K when it was offered.
—
Your class warfare doesn’t work here, monkeyboy - too many of us were there at the beginning of the 401k opportunity and before. It’s all a matter of perspective.
–On the income side of the economy, income is rising, but median income has been flat for 6 years. –
We all remember absolutely nothing of import happened in the previous 6 years. Do you think we’re senile and don’t remember 1999-2005????? Actually, we can rehash from about the “irrational exuberance” time (1995/6???)comment until now, if you wish. I’ll even go further back and discuss the 93-94 recession if you want.
Income might have been flat, but interest rates were at a 48-year low (I had an interest rate lower than my parents got in 1968! — until I moved) so more house for less bang
AND what’s been happening to employees’ bennie packages during this time?
Maybe a little more nuance is called for?
Dec 2, 2005 - 6:22 pm 44. Sandy P:OH, and BTW - there’s going to be a HUGE divvy payout, estimated equal to about $1700 a family for TY 2005.
Wouldn’t most of that go into IRAs for this category?
–So, the bottom 80% of American families own 4% of the shares held by Americans.— Ave. of $1700 that they don’t pay tax on in 2005 and they can’t (shouldn’t) touch for decades.
Now, since most of the “wealthy” are the elderly, what have you got against old people? Should they pay higher medicare premiums and higher drug prices to counteract their wealth?
Dec 2, 2005 - 6:29 pm 45. Buddy Larsen:Stacy, you have an astonishingly low regard of your fellow-citizens’ financial perspicuity.
Tell you what–I’ll vote Democrat if you can find a way to finesse the fact that any given item wrought by human effort has to have an end-user value that exceeds its cost sufficiently to feed those who bring it to market. Trade barriers will of course be your only solution. Great position for you champions of the working class, to seek to make the necessities of life more expensive (requiring more labor), as a way of controlling the levers of power. Who, did you say, is progressive?
Not to mention that global trade alone is capable of lifting billions of your non-countrymen out of poverty–and is doing so all over the globe, even as you folks sit and plan ways of reintroducing those enterprise impediments that so often throughout history have started the wars that your more sensible countrymen then have to come in and fight for you.
Dec 2, 2005 - 6:42 pm 46. Luther McLeod:You’re on a roll BL. There was an ol saying that my occluded brain cells can’t remember, but something along the lines of ‘you’d call it s*** if it were honey flowing down your throat. Some folks just refuse to see the good side of anything.
Dec 2, 2005 - 6:54 pm 47. Rick Ballard:Monkyboy,
Here are four articles on two tied subjects by three authors authors on two blogs.
There is not a single reference to any trash published by the dying media. Not one.
Maybe that’s what “new” media might consider doing.
Dec 2, 2005 - 6:54 pm 48. monkyboy:Actually, one of those articles contained 3 links to “dying” media.
And the previous post on America Thinker relied heavily on links to and quotes from the dreaded Wahington Post:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5040
Unless things change, blogs will always need the “dying” media to supply them with fodder…there isn’t enough money in blogs to hire professional journalists and support them in the field.
What you are suggesting is stadium hot dog vendors could survive without any sports being played in the stadium…
Dec 2, 2005 - 7:14 pm 49. Buddy Larsen:Uh, monkyboy, the stadium IS empty 6 days per week, and seven or eight months during the off-season.
Dec 2, 2005 - 7:27 pm 50. Buddy Larsen:Hey, thanks, Luther! Long-time-no-see. Good to see that Superman still ain’t caught ya!
Dec 2, 2005 - 7:36 pm 51. monkyboy:Your football bias is showing, Buddy.
There are 81 baseball games a year at each stadium. I hear there are other sports besides baseball and football, but I couldn’t name them.
I guess the lesson for bloggers and hot dog sellers is:
Don’t quit your day job…
Dec 2, 2005 - 7:37 pm 52. Skookumchuk:Fresh Air:
OK, I checked it out. American Angler is next on the list. I suppose I have to buy half the Filson’s catalog now . . .
Dec 2, 2005 - 7:41 pm 53. Buddy Larsen:The ‘new media’ is not the irresistable force, but it damn sure is keeping MSM from being the immoveable object.
It will, as roughly and perfectly as nature, operating apace, mithridate the national institutions against the current poisons, and slowly refill the NYTimes, CBS, Harvard, Manhattan, Frisco, and all the various and sundry co-conspirators, with good old plain folks from the old school.
And then, America will no longer be striding the world stage like a baboon, strong and vigorous but with a big cherry-red rump spoiling the best effect.
Dec 2, 2005 - 7:49 pm 54. Charlie (Colorado):Actually, Monkyboy, if you were to check you’d find that one of the objectives of PJM is indeed to produce original reportage. What I find striking, though, is the amount of original reporting can be done simply by considering the open sources with a different set of biases than the ones that seem to be largely shared by the legacy media. Consider, for example, Jon Henke’s review of the past statements on Iraq War strategy, compared with Bush’s recent speech. The sources are legacy media, the contradictions to the legacy media’s narrative are worth reporting.
As to your economic points, most have already been answered adequately by othes. But I’ll note that you don’t have 5 percent unemployment by employing only rich people. The notion that people’s jobs are being exported to China doesn’t work out well, either; first of all, you don’t get to something close to full employment if you’re exporting enough jobs to make a difference. More importantly, in my opinion, is the the notion that someone’s “job” can be “exported” is, it seems to me, an expression of a kind of aristocratic or guild-hall class view: these people can have their jobs “exported” because once they’ve learned to make left-handed buggy whips, they’re only suited to make left-handed buggy whips for all time. This is a mistake for any of several reasons, but the one I find most glaring is that it really essentially dehumanizes these people, making them into economic automatons that are simply disposed of when they are no longer needed.
This is not just false, but insulting to the very people you seem to think would be helped.
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:03 pm 55. Rick Ballard:Monkyboy,
The initial AT piece actually uses five links to illustrate a point concerning the hypocrisy of the Democratic Minority Report - none of those links were the basis for the story.
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:03 pm 56. monkyboy:I suppose if all you want to do is read made-up stories that support your personal biases, blogs could be seen as the “future” of news to you. I don’t think many people would pay for such an echo chamber, though.
I see today that most MSM/legacy/dying media outlets led with a report that 10 Marines died in Fallujah yesterday. I see that few right wing sites “reported” this story.
Is it any wonder that people disagree about how Iraq is going?
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:19 pm 57. Buddy Larsen:Monky, down in the deep south, most stadiums are football-dedicated. Baseball is played on “the baseball field”.
We do use the stadiums for sockher. Sockher is usually after church, after the snakes are put back in their cages and any bite victims stoned, dunk-stooled, and hospitalized. We head over to the stadium in our Camaros and play “sock her”, which is simply a game of beating the impure thoughts out of our womenfolk until the moonshine runs out or the sun sets, whichever comes first. Y’all come!
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:19 pm 58. Buddy Larsen:Monky, everybody heard the story of the ten Marines. Does it ever strike you that a silence may be out of respect to the fallen, and a salute to the Corps, that we know it will want to handle the matter itself, without any ghoulish pretenders eyeballing and elbowing into their business in order to make meaningless political hay out of the sad details of war?
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:28 pm 59. PeterUK:Donald Sensing reported the bombing for personal reasons..
The synchronicity of the atrocity is interesting,the loyal opposition roar into quitter mode,the terrorists obligingly murder US troops and the carrion crows of the MSM have it splashed over their news hours after it occurs.
Thanks for pointing that out Monkboy.
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:34 pm 60. Luther McLeod:For me, this will suffice for awhile,
“the contradictions to the legacy media’s narrative are worth reporting.”.
As a matter of fact this may be the most important function of ‘new media’ at present, and not the reporting of original news. The prevalent BS has to be exposed for what it is, before a ‘new’ medium can become extant. Yes, blogs are small, but the people who read them are not. Regardless of the numbers and exposure, blogs are changing minds, one small step at a time. (sorry)
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:40 pm 61. Rick Ballard:I suppose that would be in opposition to “real” stories concerning Christmas in Cambodia or TANG memos or the non-outing of non-covert agents.
Luther,
It’s definitely a one brick at a time proposition. Fortunately, the stupidity of the opposition lessens the effort required.
Dec 2, 2005 - 8:59 pm 62. PeterUK:Interesting, isn’t it Monkyboy,that the MSM doesn’t make much of the death rate in Liberal California which are over twice as high as Iraq.
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:06 pm 63. monkyboy:I’m fascinated by the claim that most news outlets are biased. Sadly, I was born without the ability to spot it.
Take the Fallujah story. Is the bias that the “dying” media outlets:
a. reported the story at all?
b. the way the story was reported?
c. the prominence the story was given?
Or was there no bias in today’s story about the Marines getting killed?
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:10 pm 64. Buddy Larsen:The football crack and Rick’s “stupidity of the oppo” gets me remembering back thru the mists of time, to what a few of us playing HS football called the “O’Day effect”. Don O’Day (hi, Don, you know we respected you!) was a linebacker that used to kill us running backs in practice. Because he was so untalented, so clumsy and slow, all he could do was go to the ball. if you met him at the hole, you couldn’t fake him out or cut back on him, his reactions were too slow. He just came on in and because he was so clumsy, he wasn’t able to tackle you clean and quick, he could only yank off your helmet or bend your back, knee, elbow, or head the wrong way as he tried to drag you off your feet. That’s the left’s effect on OIF–the O’Day Effect. It always hurts you.
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:22 pm 65. PeterUK:Yes it is sad isn’t it? But you aren’t exactly unbiased or a Republican are you Monk? not with this attitude
If you are I wouldn’t hold out any hopes getting invited to the ranch.
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:28 pm 66. Buddy Larsen:MB–the latter–no bias. Give the Marines a rest, willya? Blathering on about those guys as if they’re some sort of academic parlor game is disrespectful, and will drive away most of the folks you’re trying to debate.
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:29 pm 67. PeterUK:“Blathering on about those guys as if they’re some sort of academic parlor game”
But Buddy don’t you realise that is exactly what it is to Monky?
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:37 pm 68. Luther McLeod:I suspect you were born without the ability for a lot of things. But, believe me, it is possible to learn.
a. Of course not, every US death in the defense of freedom should be duly noted/reported and ‘respected’, not used for political agendas.
b. Of course, the glee was poorly hidden.
c. Once again, of course. See b.
Though you may not see it, or will not admit to it, the bias is there. Much like your bias for hating this country and the men who have died in defending your freedom to spout such BS as yours. But I think the real difference is you hear/see of a man killed and want to run, I hear/see and want to kill his killer. Hmmm…perhaps this should be on an earlier thread. Apologies for my barbarism.
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:37 pm 69. monkyboy:Peter, thanks for the blast from the past. I can confirm that was me and not a simian simulation. I lasted longer on that site than I do most fringe right sites.
As for the “ranch,” Bush bought it the week he announced his run for the presidency. I imagine he will sell it the day after he leaves or is thrown out of office. What a phony.
Is it wrong to defend the country that helped us win our freedom from England and supports us today in Afghanistan with fighter planes and special forces troops? Or does supporting France make me “biased?”
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:39 pm 70. Buddy Larsen:So, although every Texan is born wanting a ranch in the hill country, and get it if at all around the age of 50, Citizen Bush was ’spose to forgo the dream, so as not to be accused of phoniness by the likes of Monkyboy the Republican?
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:47 pm 71. PeterUK:Monky,
It may be cool at UCLA, but what has smearing Laura Bush got to do with France? No doubt others will read your comment and conclude that you are a dissembler.
What is this quirk you lefties have? You start out with a lie,then build an edifice of deceit on that foundation,can you not engage people in normal discourse?
Even your reply was a mealy mouthed attempt at deflecting the issue,if ever there was a time for adult politics this is it…and you are failing miserably to gain any credence for your view point.
Grow up!
Dec 2, 2005 - 9:56 pm 72. Buddy Larsen:yeh–if you’re getting banned from ‘fringe right’ sites, I can guaran-damn-tee you it ain’t due to the power of your ideas.
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:02 pm 73. monkyboy:Where is the lie, Peter? Laura Bush killed her boyfriend in Teddy Kennedy style and was never prosecuted…
I am gonna call phony rancher on Bush. The ranch made a nice backdrop for him to cut grass to. It’s just like the phony, hand-picked audiences he speaks in front of these days.
The sad thing is, I used to think the phony settings were to fool the rubes. Now, I think his staff stages these Potemkin events to fool Bush into thinking he’s still popular…
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:08 pm 74. PeterUK:Monky,You entire posture and approach is a lie,you are not a Republican are you? You are here to push Denocratic talking points.So Im going to call phony Republican you a left winger at UCLA education
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:21 pm 75. Rick Ballard:Lord, spare us from dimwitted dormdonkeys. He’s another sixth year junior 30 units short of advancing, Peter. Third major and a family that’s happy to send the money if it will keep him away from home. LLL - Lyin’ Lefty Loser.
Not worth another pixel.
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:28 pm 76. Buddy Larsen:Peter–you Brits are so good at this–slickern’ owl doo-doo, you walked old MB right off a cliff–and he’s still talking on his way down to the rocks below–doesn’t even know what you did, and never will. Ha! Adroit.
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:36 pm 77. klrfz1:Have you ever noticed that Roger’s blog usually attracts one troll per thread? Today it’s monkeyboy. Yesterday it was JBlossom. Before that it was Sochu John or In Vino Veritas or markus. All of these anti-war trolls have the same arrogant, insulting style.
How come monkeyboy never logs in to agree with Sochu John? Will In Vino Veritas ever argue with JBlossom? Shouldn’t at least one leftist troll have given markus some advice about commenting here? Don’t you think if mild mannered reporter Clark Kent took off his glasses he might look a little like that Superman guy?
Why is it that none of these trolls has any personal information in their typekey profiles? Can it be true that none of them have their own blogs? When they include personal information in a comment, how come it always is in support of the point they are making? Why no “I was at Woodstock, too, didn’t you just love Country Joe and the Fish” type comments?
My theory: pure laziness. A writer of fiction can invent as many characters as needed and provide sufficiently different speaking styles to make them believable if he is willing to take the time. MarkusSochuJohnInVinoVeritasmonkeyboyJBlossom is just too lazy to go to that much trouble. There is not much of a work ethic on the left.
Wouldn’t it be a terrific new media story for a blogger to investigate and prove that a single Democratic Party operative is posting comments to blogs using a variety of typekey identities? Roger?
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:38 pm 78. Buddy Larsen:I guess when you’re a complete phony, you can’t imagine anyone else not being one, too. An education major, of course a Teddy lover, trying to ‘even’ out Chappaquiddick. God help the children if he ever graduates and gets work. Maybe the parents will shoot him.
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:44 pm 79. Buddy Larsen:Lazy, kerfizzle? I’ll say–when your Magnum Opus is to call the pres a phony from your anonymous fake hidey-hole–and have THAT represent your party’s deepest theoretical political philosophy. Lazy, stupid, vile, and to be forever kept–as the American people know–from the levers of power.
Dec 2, 2005 - 10:52 pm 80. klrfz1:Kerfizzle? Like a kerfuffle with the fizzle instead of the fuffle? I like that!
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:02 pm 81. Buddy Larsen:Well–old addled eyes, monitored half-blind by now tonite–missed the lower-case “L”–tho i shoulda remembered we settled on ‘clear-fizz’ once before, as the phonetic.
Ever hear of Joe Btfsplk?
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:19 pm 82. monkyboy:I always chuckle when I see the fringe right congratulate themselves on a victory before they’ve actually accomplished anything.
I am fond of Lemon Curd, though, so I will try to be nice to UK posters.
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:22 pm 83. Rick Ballard:Clear Fizz Won,
I think there are more than one. It seems as if Soros funds Kossadsacks to work on a rotational basis - share the poverty dontchaknow. First they have to fail an intelligence test rather convincingly and then they’re given access to a database with all the gibberish available via very simple searches. I heard the system was Beta tested in Mrs. Sorenson’s first grade Special Ed class.
Then they’re turned loose to be ridiculed.
I wouldn’t include Markus. Most days, anyway.
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:28 pm 84. Buddy Larsen:MB…chuckle away–you wouldn’t know an accomplishment if it hit you in the ass.
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:38 pm 85. Buddy Larsen:“those who can, do; those who can’t, teach–at UCLA.” (Mark Twain?)
Rick–you’re right–Markus is a left-winger, but he’s personally honest–doesn’t defraud the ‘thread compact’.
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:42 pm 86. monkyboy:You’ll have to ask the English schoolboys who post here about that sort of thing, Buddy.
Not that there’s anything wrong with it…
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:46 pm 87. Jamie Irons:Rick,
While reading this thread, I’ve been listenig to Beethoven’s Opus 130, Cavatina: Adagio Molto Espressivo.
Music nearly two centuies “old” that sounds like it was composed twenty years from now.
I’m puzzled by this “Monky” person.
He seems to inhabit such a pathetic, terribly constrained little universe.
He ought to get out more.
Jamie Irons
Dec 2, 2005 - 11:54 pm 88. Buddy Larsen:Jamie–since I see your a Beethoveniac, let me guess–your pastoral poems–6th symphony, 1st movement?
Dec 3, 2005 - 12:01 am 89. Jamie Irons:Buddy,
Exactly!
Jamie
(I’ve got to get to sleep; getting late!)
Dec 3, 2005 - 12:10 am 90. Buddy Larsen:MB, whether you know it or not, you just got a prescription from an experienced psychiatrist, a clinician who actively manages troubled people.
He’s found evidence in your writings that led him to advise you to broaden your perspectives.
No kidding. Really.
Dec 3, 2005 - 12:11 am 91. Buddy Larsen:yeh–me too–sandman has just done his do. ‘Nite all. You, too, MB, G*d help you.
Dec 3, 2005 - 12:13 am 92. monkyboy:*sniff*
Truly an act of compassionate conservatism. I’m touched.
No doubt somewhere in the bowels of Washington, an exorbitant fee is changing hands.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/02/AR2005120201454.html
Dec 3, 2005 - 12:39 am 93. Captain Hate:“Unless things change, blogs will always need the “dying” media”
Unless things change, Monkeyspanker? Things always change; that’s what you oxymoronic “progressives” have such difficulty with. I’m sure that if you could find Mr Peabody’s Wayback machine and live in Stalin’s Soviet Union, you’d say that samizdat writers weren’t *real* writers.
Dec 3, 2005 - 5:22 am 94. Buddy Larsen:…and he’d sign ‘em in to the gulags without a second thought, too. Don’t ever doubt that.
Dec 3, 2005 - 6:31 am 95. PeterUK:You know,Monky old son,if you had put your views in a straightforeward way,eschewed the adolescent bravado of claiming to be a 25 year registered Republican and just been yourself,you would have been read politely,if incredulously and debated in a civilised way.
So you may want to consider why it is,that as a propagandist you are a dismal failure,if you are doing media studies or creative writing,who knows even studying rugby songs? Cut your losses and learn a trade,something that does not involve guile.
Dec 3, 2005 - 7:09 am 96. Buddy Larsen:Re your WaPo story, MB, here’s a story:
Daughter, daily after school walks past feedshed between bus drop and house and enters the small dark room to feed her dogs & cats. One day last year. she calls me on cellphone panicky (I’m 20 minutes distant). There’s a rattler between her and the door, it came out from under a pallette and coiled up in the middle of the concrete floor. Hannah is against the back wall, 8′ from snake, 16′ from door, scared to move, only her school backpack full of books to hand. I talk her into raising the 20-40 lb bookbag over her head and smashing it down on snake–taking care to aim a little short on its ‘head’ side–and immediately breaking for the door. It worked, she got away (I located the pissed-off–and probly bruised– snake later & dispatched it with a .410, birdshot to avoid room damage, from a safe distance).
Your headline:
“Armed Man Forces Daughter on Rampage”
Subhead:
“Duo Injures, Kills Small Animal, Damages School Property“
Dec 3, 2005 - 7:36 am 97. Buddy Larsen:BTW–just read my post–no dogs and cats kept in small dark room. Their FEED kept there.
Dec 3, 2005 - 7:41 am 98. Rick Ballard:Jamie,
I wonder what Beethoven’s work might have been like had he regularly heard the musical template of his time. Certainly, he read it, but reading music and hearing music make entirely different impressions. I sincerely doubt that his work would have been bettered by listening to his contemporaries.
Looking to a poisoned well (returning to dying media for a moment) does not seem the appropriate way to quench thirst. One can learn from failure but not by making it a model.
Dec 3, 2005 - 8:15 am 99. dougf:Thanks for the entertainment, all.
I was about to join the partay, but I have a cvery difficult time even talking at creatures such as our Simian friend, never mind talking to.
As others have said, once you’ve heard one of the breed, you have basically heard them all.
BORING.
One small point though,monk. I have always had this personal thing about ‘honesty’. I value it greatly and have not much respect for those who believe that lying is just good clean fun. This attitude has, needless to say, not exactly done wonders for me over the years, as the wheels of advancement are greased with the ability to dissemble at the slightest opportunity.
When someone joins an Internet blog discusssion and the first words penned are a Major Calculaed Lie, well things are unlikely to get better from there.
I am a lifelong Republican who has voted the straight “R” ticket until 2000 when I just couldn’t take it any more.
What a pathetic way to attempt to articifially engender understanding and support for your positionings.
And you wonder I suppose why people get somewhat ‘upset’ with your infantile analysis.
Perhaps a small clue—- You are the dictionary picture of Bad Faith , and adding insult to injury, you treat your ‘opponents’ with contempt by deliberately misrepresenting your personal agenda in an effort to weasel your way through the defenses. You fight under a False Flag , which really does tend to be offputting.
Now at the end of the day ,we get the REAL you—“Laura Bush killed her boyfriend in Teddy Kennedy style and was never prosecuted”.
Pathetic.
Dec 3, 2005 - 8:27 am 100. Buddy Larsen:dougf, character problems are endemic to the left–it’a almost as if it is the home party of character problems. You can be either party, left or right, with or without bad/poor/weak character, but I don’t think you can be a hard-leftist *with* good character.
As the ancient Greeks said, “character is fate”, we can be reasonably certain that MB leads a well-earned shitty life, and likely always will.
Dec 3, 2005 - 8:45 am 101. PeterUK:Nah! Buddy,
Senator,”It profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world… but for Massachusetts!”
“A Man For all Seasons”
Dec 3, 2005 - 9:03 am 102. PeterUK:But then again,what can you expect when this mendacity comes from the top Have they no shame?
Dec 3, 2005 - 9:08 am 103. Cap'n Billy:Since the creature known as “monkyboy” has attempted to slime Laura Bush (Slime spreading slime) by equating an auto accident she was involved in when she was 17 years old with Teddy Kennedy’s reprehensible behavior after his, when he was a considerably older U.S. Senator, it may be useful to know the full story of the accident to which he is referring from a reliable source. http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp
It is obvious that the only similarity between the two is that there were automobiles involved in both of them. Mrs. Bush’s behavior as a 17-year-old was far more responsible than Kennedy’s was as a 30-something or 40-something year-old Senator.
It really takes a scumbag to draw these kinds of parallels, and anything this pathetic twerp posts here or anywhere else may safely be ignored.
Dec 3, 2005 - 9:19 am 104. monkyboy:Actually, dougf, I voted for Bush in 2000. I liked Gore, but I thought lil’ George might be at least half the man his father was…turned out I was wrong.
True to fringe right form, all I see are personal attacks and made-up stories posted here as counters to my points. Faith-based “logic” at its finest.
Tell you what, here are two simple things that would earn my support for another year of endless slaughter before the civil war breaks out in Iraq:
1. Make military duty in Iraq voluntary for all U.S. forces.
2. Have a spot on the Dec. 15th ballot to let Iraqis vote on whether the U.S. should pull out right away or not.
Dec 3, 2005 - 9:32 am 105. Old Dad:Monkyboy,
Some friendly advice. You’re an ill mannered punk. This condition is not terminal. Go out and get some fresh air. UCLA educates some of the most beautiful women in the world. Go meet one. It will improve your crappy attitude.
Dec 3, 2005 - 9:37 am 106. PeterUK:and there Buddy is the next talking point…what did I tell you? Like clockwork!
Dec 3, 2005 - 9:39 am 107. Captain Hate:“another year of endless slaughter”
You can’t make this stuff up!! Maybe the UCLA regents should intercede before they lose all academic credibility.
Dec 3, 2005 - 9:42 am 108. PeterUK:“Tell you what, here are two simple things that would earn my support for another year of endless slaughter before the civil war breaks out in Iraq:”
Monky,or may I call you Caryl? Your support isn’t needed…you are an irrelevence..get used to it you aren’t even on the scale from nought to zero.
Dec 3, 2005 - 9:44 am 109. PeterUK:Faith-based “logic” at its finest.You know Monkintire you are the best argument against intelligent design I have come across.
If you hadn’t been a liar these things could have been discussed…now nobody will bother because you are unserious…all your positions are judged false…
…and stop whining..what did you expect..you get your ares kicked everywhere you go…have you not noticed yet that it is you?
Dec 3, 2005 - 9:58 am 110. Charlie (Colorado):He’s another sixth year junior 30 units short of advancing, Peter. Third major and a family that’s happy to send the money if it will keep him away from home.
Hmmm. Guys, this is entirely too much like my undergrad career for comfort.
Except I was on my 6th or 7th major, and accumulated 240+ undergrad hours.
Dec 3, 2005 - 10:14 am 111. Charlie (Colorado):I’m fascinated by the claim that most news outlets are biased. Sadly, I was born without the ability to spot it.
Monkyboy, you should rephrase that as “all news outlets are biased.” Uniformly. I could present a mathematical proof based in information theory if you’d like, and think you could follow it. The gist of it is that all reporting imposes a filter, and a filter can be seen as an effective computation that expresses a characteristic function. This characteristic function determines which things are in the set of “news”, versus the set of “not news.”
The trick is that you can also, by looking at what is and isn’t reported, construct an approximation of that characteristic function (with some good reason to think it happens cognitively by something like bayesian inference), if you have an idea what the inputs look like. If you don’t — if you think that what you’re seeing reported is everything there is — then you infer that there is no bias.
Think of it this way: if you have eaten both asparagus and ice cream, you know if you like asparagus, or ice cream, or both. If you have eaten ice cream, but not asparagus, you at least have some idea what you like and what holes remain in your knowledge. but if you’ve eaten ice cream and don’t know that asparagus exists, you don’t even have an idea that your knowledge is incomplete.
Dec 3, 2005 - 10:40 am 112. Charlie (Colorado):Oh, I wanted to throw in something about the ranch. MB, happens I grew up on a working cattle ranch. There’s no question that Bush doesn’t have a working ranch, and so far as I know he’s never made the claim that it was. But the notion that he’d bother to buy a couple of square miles of land, and spend as much time as he does on the ranch, when people are constantly bitching that he spends too much time there, and would be doing it for political reasons, is simply deranged.
As with other aspects of the reaction to Bush, I can understand someone deciding Bush is a semi-literate idiot; it’s not very well suited to the evidence, but what the hell. I can understand someone deciding that Bush is a machiavellian schemer; frankly, considering how often he ends up “losing” until he gets what he wants, I’d find that a lot more believable.
But the conclusion that he’s a machiavellian schemer who is at the same time transparently a fool just is a little difficult to credit.
Dec 3, 2005 - 10:51 am 113. Rick Ballard:Any more difficult to credit than the fact that (in Kosland) he’s a tool of the Saudis controlled by a Jewish cabal?
I really like that one.
Dec 3, 2005 - 11:52 am 114. PeterUK:Supporting the troops by describing them as “Broken,worn out living hand to mouth,then celebrating their valour by forcing them to retreat.
“The Murtha of All Defeats”.
Dec 3, 2005 - 12:22 pm 115. dougf:Any more difficult to credit than the fact that (in Kosland) he’s a tool of the Saudis controlled by a Jewish cabal?–RB
See?
He is a uniter not a devider after all. What a guy !!
Dec 3, 2005 - 12:23 pm 116. PeterUK:“All Your Biases Are Belong To Us”
Dec 3, 2005 - 12:39 pm 117. Buddy Larsen:“The Murtha of All Defeats”…yes, he and his Murtha-Fogging “plan”.
Dec 3, 2005 - 3:28 pm 118. Luther McLeod:Watching you folks is similar to watching a cat play with a mouse. Toy, toy, pounce. Toy, toy, pounce, Toy, toy, crunch. Quite amusing. And good job.
Dec 3, 2005 - 4:35 pm