Power Line’s John Hinderaker is of course correct in his call for a Plame-style investigation of the CIA leak that showed up (yet again) in the New York Times. The Times has become something of a playground/dumping ground for disaffected (and almost always anonymous) intelligence agents. Do they have a special 800 number for Langley, VA?
In fact, you don’t even need the Plame case to wonder what’s going on at our country’s most prominent intelligence agency that many of its employees are spilling their versions of the beans to the press on a regular basis, if not to the NYT, then to the New Yorker. Are these the kinds of intell agents you would trust? Not me. Not for a second. They are also not the kinds of people I would trust to do the nation’s covert business, no matter what rationale or public good they think they are serving in blabbing to reporters. Furthermore, although I have never read a CIA contract, I would be astounded if they were not in complete violation of it through their behavior.
As for the Times, I don’t blame them for publishing these leaks - they’re just trying to make a buck and push their ideological views like any other routine media organization. And I certainly don’t worry people assume something to be true because it was published in the New York Times. That was over long ago.
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1. Luther McLeod:Roger, I agree with all you say except “I certainly don’t worry people assume something to be true because it was published in the New York Times. That was over long ago.”
It is an unfortunate fact that many still believe the “Old Grey Lady” to be the sayer of record. Yes, those of us here in blogland have a different perception of the world. But, as yet, we are a small minority of the “people”. Do I wish it were different, of course I do. But the grey lady rules the ink waves. Most ‘people’ are not reading blogs. A middle ground needs to be found to bridge that chasm.
As to your actual topic, there must be a cleansing at Langley, but will we ever have a chief executive with the nerve to do it?
Dec 16, 2005 - 8:12 pm 2. Ron Wrght:FYI - Michelle was seeing red this morning. She has some interesting info re timing et al. KFI640 Talk Radio (LA Area) also notice the coincidence of the Patriot Act vote in the Senate today.
*****
HT Michell Malkin
Michelle unloads both barrels on the Old Gray Lady (NYTimes) over their blantant spin to knock the Iraqi election story off the front page.
Ron
*****
RED ALERT: CHICKEN LITTLES ON THE LOOSE
By Michelle Malkin - December 16, 2005 10:35 AM
***scroll for updates***
This morning, the Drudge Report–HUGE RED FONT and all–chose to aid and abet the civil liberties Chicken Littles at the N.Y. Times. That’s a shame. The real headline news is not that President Bush took extraordinary measures to protect Americans in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, but that the blabbermouths at the Times chose to disclose classified information in a pathetically obvious bid to move the Iraqi elections off the front pages.
[...]
Here
Dec 16, 2005 - 8:17 pm 3. dougf:As for the Times, I don’t blame them for publishing these leaks - they’re just trying to make a buck and push their ideological views like any other routine media organization.
I must say that this ‘excuse’ covers a very very very LARGE territory.
Is not the problem with the accursed media exactly that they ‘push their ideological views’ at the expense of anything remotely resembling the ‘objective’ truth? If they are not to be held accountable for their wilful,and malicious distortion of public information, them why do we bother to complain about them at all? Frankly I blame the Times for just being itself. That they compound this existential flaw by doing everything possible to undermine their own State without any evident consideration for the consequences is surely at least a little blameworthy.
I don’t think the Times gives a rat’s ass about any of these ‘issues’,or the scandal-du-jour they engender; I think all they care about is denigating the evil Bush Regime.
They are by this point the very definition of perfidious
All The News That Is Advantageous To Print.
Dec 16, 2005 - 8:27 pm 4. Jamison1:Roger,
The NSA is not the CIA. Completely different agency.
Dec 16, 2005 - 9:50 pm 5. monkyboy:5 Held in Plot to Bug Democrats’ Office Here
By Alfred E. Lewis
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, June 18, 1972; Page A01
Five men, one of whom said he is a former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency, were arrested at 2:30 a.m. yesterday in what authorities described as an elaborate plot to bug the offices of the Democratic National Committee here.
Three of the men were native-born Cubans and another was said to have trained Cuban exiles for guerrilla activity after the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion.
They were surprised at gunpoint by three plain-clothes officers of the metropolitan police department in a sixth floor office at the plush Watergate, 2600 Virginia Ave., NW, where the Democratic National Committee occupies the entire floor.
Yes, let’s investigate this one…it sounds like a winner.
Dec 16, 2005 - 9:51 pm 6. Steven Mitchell:“Is not the problem with the accursed media exactly that they ‘push their ideological views’ at the expense of anything remotely resembling the ‘objective’ truth?”
No, once you understand their perfidious motives, as you obviously do, it is precisely not the problem. It is the solution. When they were *better* at accomplishing their goals, it was because they felt the need to camouflage their ideological views in something that somewhat resembled objective truth. Now that they have dropped the pretense, they can be seen clearly for what they are.
I think there is a hidden assumption in a lot of thinking that the complaints about the bias are somehow meant to reform the guilty. Even those that know better (probably including you), find this assumption creeping in from time to time. (I know I do.) Occasionally, it may even work out that way. But mostly, the complaints are there to discredit the guilty. So when the guilty discredit themselves, even better.
There is also the issue of people versus the things they run. It is possible for the Democratic party to reform? Sure! Is it possible for Kerry to reform? Well, anyone is capable of a death-bed conversion, but a reasonable person probably will not hold his breathe.
Same with the MSM. As a whole, it can conceivably get better. The NYT can even get better. But you can’t reasonably expect it to get better with the people currently running it. Best thing for all concerned, then, is for it to plumment fast, where it can either die or be taken over by people that can fix it.
Of course, the problem is that what we have instead is the slow, painful death of the MSM, with a lot of lashing out. So it is hard to see what parts will make it.
Dec 16, 2005 - 10:04 pm 7. Charlie (Colorado):Roger, I have signed one of those contracts, and I promise you, this kind of leak is absolutely forbidden.
Without permission from the Agency.
Dec 16, 2005 - 11:18 pm 8. Charlie (Colorado):Oh, and Monkyboy, everything that’s been said so far suggests that in fact this is a tempest in a teapot — all the calls monitored had at least one endpoint outside US sovereignity, and thus permissible under FISA (50 USC 1801), and both the FISA court and the Senate Intelligence Committee (specifically Jay Rockefeller) were notified at the time, according to the Times’ story. So unless you think the Democrat members of the Senate Intelligence Committee were accessories before and after the fact, I bet there’s no lawbreaking involved.
Dec 16, 2005 - 11:28 pm 9. Roger:Jamison!, I of course realize the NSA and the CIA not the same and this was an NSA link. Same rules apply, I’m sure, in that regard, as Charlie indicates above. What interests me in the sudden brouhaha about the NSA, however, is that they supposedly were never listening in on calls from the USA abroad (unless they had a court order). Having read the Puzzle Palace and other writings about the NSA, I’m skeptical that is entirely true. There is a lot of strange dealing going on here.
Dec 16, 2005 - 11:32 pm 10. monkyboy:Chuck, I’m sure we’ll find out that a few of the monitored calls had both endpoints inside the U.S. This is shaping up to be a hell of an election year for the Republicans…
Dictatorships that hide behind the law to give themselves an appearance of legality even if their actions disagree, are short-lived. They will collapse of their own incompetence, leaving behind chaos and confusion.
-Joseph Goebbels
Dec 16, 2005 - 11:46 pm 11. Robin Munn:Roger,
I read your line about whether people believe the New York Times and was preparing to comment on it, when I discovered that Luther McLeod had beaten me to it — and on the very first comment, no less.
All I can say is, “ditto”. Most people of my acquaintance — the ones who even bother to follow the news, that is — trust the New York Times implicitly. I know exactly two people besides myself to whom I can mention something I read on a blog and expect them to have seen it as well.
Normally, “ditto” comments don’t convey a lot of information, so I usually refrain from posting them. But in a case like this, I think it’s useful to hear from as many people as possible that they think you’re dead wrong. You’re so deeply immersed in the blogosphere that you’ve started slipping into the “I only talk to people who think like I do, therefore everybody must think like I do” trap. Sorry I don’t have a shorter name for it — I don’t think “echo chamber” is quite the right name. Maybe we could call it the Pauline Kael trap: “How could Nixon have won? Nobody I know voted for him!”
Just because nobody you know reads the New York Times, doesn’t mean nobody reads it.
Dec 17, 2005 - 12:01 am 12. David Thomson:ìJust because nobody you know reads the New York Times, doesn’t mean nobody reads it.î
Whoa, you are jumping to an invalid conclusion. Everybody in Roger L. Simonís circle is very well aware of the contents of the New York Times! None of us could fall into the Pauline Kael trap. And yes, a large number of Americans still trust this dishonest rag. Their numbers are dropping according to the circulation reports, but it admittedly remains a force to be reckoned with.
ìRoger, I have signed one of those contracts, and I promise you, this kind of leak is absolutely forbidden.
Without permission from the Agency.î
Leftist members of the CIA have declared war on the White House—with the apparent permission of their superiors. Our country is in great danger from our ìelitesî who attended the so-called best schools and feel superior to the rest of the hoi polloi. They are far more loyal to the concept of a world order than to the American Constitution. What can we do? Make sure you only vote for conservative Republicans and Democrats. Reject all left-wing candidates. There will be times you disagree with George W. Bushís administration, but never overlook the bigger picture. The lives of your loved one depends on you making the proper distinctions and not missing the forest because the trees got in the way.
Dec 17, 2005 - 2:26 am 13. syn:The only fascists in America are those who believe America is a fascist country.
-a voice from the Republic
Dec 17, 2005 - 2:59 am 14. monkyboy:If the intercepts are released they may disclose whether Bolton was a key figure in a counter-intelligence operation run inside the Bush administration against the secretary of state, who would resemble the hunted character played by Will Smith in Enemy of the State. Both Republican and Democratic senators have demanded that the state department, which holds the NSA intercepts, turn them over to the committee. But Rice so far has refused. What is she hiding by her cover-up?
I guess now we know…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1471879,00.html
Dec 17, 2005 - 3:35 am 15. Terrye:monkyboy:
Unless you are suggesting that the people the AlQaida contacts were talking to were Democrats I fail to understand why you are bringing up ancient history.
But if it is history you want I think you should remember that the Clinton administration was the most corrupt in modern history. Hands down.
You are not only a hypocrite, you are hypocrite who knows nothing about history.
BTW, if this was actually Hitler’s Germany several things would happen, among them being that you and the editor of the NYT would be in a death camp right now, Bushitler would get whatever he wanted without any discussion or debate whatsoever and there would be a nice purge going in on the CIA and the NSA right now.
Leaking to the press, book deals and showing off on TV would be out of the question in the Fatherland.
And I really don’t think that many people pay attention to the NYT anymore, outside of New York and Washington anyway.
I think they are just trying to take the good news off the front page and help undermine national security for partisan politcal gain.
Needless to say if there is an attack they will be concocting conspiracy theories as to why the Bushies did not do a better job of getting these people before they could strike again.
Dec 17, 2005 - 4:19 am 16. Terrye:So is it the desire of administration critics that we go back to pre 9/11 status now?
Are we to assume that no more attacks can happen and just return to business as usual?
Are critics prepared to assume responsibility for anthing that does happen?
If these leaks undermine national security or if people in sleeper cells here in the US are allowed to remain free and operaing is that ok?
What do we expect of our government?
Dec 17, 2005 - 4:25 am 17. David Thomson:Roger L. Simon should seriously consider banning Monkeyboy. It is highly likely that he is being paid to harass this blog by wealthy leftists. Differing points of view should be encouraged, but not agitprop. This distinction makes all the difference. We should never confuse one with the other.
Dec 17, 2005 - 5:04 am 18. Always right:Many have already expressed the opinions and concerns about the right of privacy. The most often used quote from Ben Franklin, no less. [My spouse pointed out Old Ben also wanted TURKEY to be the national bird.]
I am sure Ben Franklin was referring to people in a civilized society. However, we are facing fanatics hell-bent on destroying as much of the civilized society as possible. Citizens of this country can “imagine” (daydream) of a utopian world, but our government is obligated to protect us.
As for NYT, they published the “tanker truck with illegal ballots from Iran” with just a single source right before the Iraqi election, multiple CIA and NSA leaks with interesting timing, etc. don’t you sense that the editor(s) decided to go down the “tabloid” path? What’s next? “Aliens ate my grandmother?”
Dec 17, 2005 - 5:10 am 19. David Thomson:ì..we are facing fanatics hell-bent on destroying as much of the civilized society as possible.î
This is why Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson warned that the U.S. Constitution should never become a suicide pact. Common sense must underpin our thinking on these matters.
Dec 17, 2005 - 5:31 am 20. PeterUK:David Thomson,
Monkyboy Caryl McIntire Edwards,has a style very similar to the late unlamented DoubleStandard,an entity which has disappeared from the web after multiple bannings.
Dec 17, 2005 - 5:49 am 21. JK Ribera:David Thompson, I hope Monkeyboy is being paid, because if he’s not he’s even more stupid than he sounds.
Dec 17, 2005 - 6:38 am 22. Cap'n Billy:Re: PeterUK at December 17, 2005 05:49 AM:
Nice detective work, Peter! It’s nice to know some of the background of one who spouts so much crackpottery. Now that I do, I’m not surprised at what issues from that orifice.
Dec 17, 2005 - 6:45 am 23. Captain Hate:“And I really don’t think that many people pay attention to the NYT anymore, outside of New York and Washington anyway.”
You’d be surprised how many boomer apparatchiks out here in Ahia still consider Pinch Shitberger’s very devalued product to be the gold standard in journalism. They take great care to mention it as the source of their info, mistakenly thinking that it will give them more credibility. Plus the local fishwrap uses them as a source for articles as well as op-eds by MoDo and Drugman. It’s really difficult to escape them in the print media. Doesn’t that contradict the concentration of media power that the left is supposed to oppose?
Dec 17, 2005 - 6:53 am 24. photoncourier.blogspot.com:“they’re just trying to make a buck and push their ideological views”…actually, I think they seem to be more interested in pushing their ideological viewst than in making a buck:
link
Dec 17, 2005 - 7:21 am 25. Paul:I agree with David Thomson that Roger should ban Monkyboy. I think upon the exposure of the first outright bald-faced lie (I’m a Republican who voted for Bush in ‘00) a commenter should should be viewed as a bad faith customer and a source of pollution in the comments section. Using the names of the American soldiers KIA in Iraq for the purpose of political sniping, dishonoring them in doing so, is simply beyond the pale and should be grounds for immediate expulsion, imo.
Dec 17, 2005 - 8:46 am 26. Syl:It’s absurd to think the New York Times views aren’t paid attention to outside New York and Washington.
Where do ABC, CBS, and NBC get their daily talking points from? The New York Times.
Where do local newspapers around the country get many of their articles from? The New York Times.
It’s printed in the Times and every talking head and newsroom editor in the country go with the flow.
Dec 17, 2005 - 9:05 am 27. Ed Poinsett:The New York Times, in an effort to boost precipitous drops in circulation, has renamed itself The New York Tabloid. Called the Grey Bag Lady, its new motto: All The Views We Choose To Print.
Dec 17, 2005 - 10:07 am 28. Terrye:It is true that papers in the country do use the NYT as a source, but they have fewer and fewer readers as time passes. There is just a lot more competition for news now than there used to be.
I think WaPos is as influential if not more so.
Dec 17, 2005 - 1:30 pm 29. Cynic:Syl,
You should know that the NYT is also used in Israeli media to push a point for a reporter and/or politician e.g. Braverman, Peretz’s possible Minister of Finance who in his anti Thatcher and Walmart stances cited the NYT and Krugman when first interviewed after joining the Labour party.
No wonder Israelis appear to be so badly informed on economic matters.
Dec 18, 2005 - 8:17 am 30. exguru:Talk about pork and bridges in Alaska! Nothing wastes more money than our useless intelligence agencies. I favor their complete demobilization and dissolution. The big building can be used at some furture time to house social security individual account records. Then, find 30 or 40 tough and smart young chaps, and start over. Let them hire criminals, bribe anyone, etc. Let no politically correct notions intrude on them. Maybe they can develop one agent in Baghdad, or two Arabic speakers! Wouldn’t that be a breakthrough!
Dec 18, 2005 - 2:30 pm 31. CarylMcIntireEdwards:Periodically I search the Internet to see what may be out there about me. I am aware that there are items I have written which pertain to animals, Twinless Twins, and some genealogical research. While I DO have very strong political opinions I do not write about them publically. I do have the email address Carylsmonkyboy and it used to be simply monkyboy until I switched servers and could no longer have that address. I do not know who the monkyboy is who was writing in this forum in mid December of 2005 but it was NOT Caryl McIntire Edwards!!! I wish I had seen this when it was happening so I could have refuted it at that time but, having found it now, a year later, I still cannot let it stand.
Jan 1, 2007 - 7:33 pm 32. CarylMcIntireEdwards:Caryl McIntire Edwards
Periodically I search the Internet to see what may be out there about me. I am aware that there are items I have written which pertain to animals, Twinless Twins, and some genealogical research. While I DO have very strong political opinions I do not write about them publically. I do have the email address Carylsmonkyboy and it used to be simply monkyboy until I switched servers and could no longer have that address. I do not know who the monkyboy is who was writing in this forum in mid December of 2005 but it was NOT Caryl McIntire Edwards!!! I wish I had seen this when it was happening so I could have refuted it at that time but, having found it now, a year later, I still cannot let it stand.
Jan 1, 2007 - 7:37 pmCaryl McIntire Edwards