Hasn’t released his combat records like he said he would. Hasn’t released his military medical records so we can see the reason behind the 3 purple hearts he received in a 3 month period for the 18 missions he went on in that period. Said he would tell us the dates of his forays into Cambodia but hasn’t. Claims Douglas Brinkley has exclusive rights to is journal so therefore he can’t release it. Douglas Brinkley says otherwise. What is john boy hiding?

The fact is he’s contradicted himself so many times over the last 35 years he can’t keep his lies straight.

So, what’s your point? The conversation tends to take its own course. My comment was based in part previous comments. This is a discussion is it not? Some people don’t read them all, and that’s fine, but perhaps they ought to avoid making rude remarks about others failing to provide sufficient information when it is they who have not read the provided information. Also, I shall note that, originally, my musings about the implications of this poll were in reference to possible future blatherings from the puditocracy. This is related to the original post as well as subsequent comments.

As to the poll itself, I am certainly not in a position to vouch for its quality. I described it as “evidence” and not “proof.” Though I am curious as to why you consider Zogby so disreputable. Furthermore, the things you cite as “soft shoeing about the mechanics of the poll on his website” may be because what is on the web site is what they show you without paying the 20 clams for all the sordid details. You conclude, “In short, I can believe soldiers said that (although I think Zogby is a bit disreputable); I can also believe they understand they have a job to finish.” That very possibility was one of the options. “23% said they should stay ‘as long as they are needed.’”

Zogby has an ax to grind and it shows in his history. I am just as impressed by his polls as I am by Mary Mapes’s investigative journalism.

Be that as it may–lets assume Zogby is accurate in his polling (which would really be quite astounding–he does a fair amount of soft shoeing about the mechanics of the poll on his website; doesnt discuss weighting or any of the other issues one might raise when polls are announced).

Let’s cut to the more basic issue: I suspect you dont have much experience with the American soldier–I have no doubt believing the American soldier would like to come home, and depending how the questions were asked (Zogby didn’t provide the survey questions in the press release)–but much would depend on what the follow-up questions were–I suspect you would find, that if asked, they would say of course they want to come ASAP–Hell, that was my position about serving in Viet Nam–but they also may just want to stay there until the job is finished.–but thats just me–In short, I can believe soldiers said that (although I think Zogby is a bit disreputable); I can also believe they understand they have a job to finish.

Sorry, I thoguht you were paying attention to the thread. A story about the poll was already cited above, and it does not say “I’d like to be home within a year.” It says, “the US should pull out of Iraq within a year.”

Or more precisely, “An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year”

The cite on Zogby of the full results, where you can find the above quote: http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

Perhaps you should be more careful before accusing others of not being serious.

Come on, pal, prove it or don’t bother wasting time posting here.

Hint: “I’d like to be home within a year” is very different from “the US should pull out of Iraq within a year.”

I can’t believe I ever regarded you as a serious person.

Interesting. This notion gives me an idea. Given the evidence suggesting almost 3/4 of our soldiers want us out of Iraq within a year, putting them firmly to the left of Hillary Clinton on the issue, one wonders if the pro-war folks’ message to the troops will change from “We support you!” to “Buck up, you cowards!”

First pundit to suggest that the troops are giving aid and comfort to the enemy wins a rubber chickenhawk.

Your logic is flawed, but then I’m sure you know that.

The French suffered more than half a million casualties at Verdun in WW I, the Germans slightly less.

No one on either side wanted to be there. In the aftermath, whole French divisions deserted and some were shot on sight by their officers. The French public were horrified.

Yet the Allies won.

That’s about 45 years worth of Thanksgiving driving fatalities, to use your tortured analogy.

The war is lost. The American people want out, and American soldiers want out. It’s a lost cause, and the quicker neo-cons understand this, the more lives we save.