50 Comments

1. markus:

The guy is not going to getting out his orange jump suit for a long time, even though thank God he didn’t kill anyone. The real question is deranged individuals with similar plans. I really don’t know. Having read each of the 305 comments left so far at LGF, I have discovered that NONE of these frothing crusaders have a clue what to do either.

Mar 6, 2006 - 5:08 pm 2. markus:

I meant to say “the real question is WHAT TO DO ABOUT deranged individuals with similar plans.”

Mar 6, 2006 - 5:09 pm 3. tim maguire:

I don’t think there’s anything we can do before they unmask themselves.

But Roger’s right to be careful here. Imagine how the “terrorist” label would affect the poor young man’s employability.

Mar 6, 2006 - 5:33 pm 4. rascalfair:

“the real question is WHAT TO DO ABOUT deranged individuals with similar plans.”

Why is it assumed he is deranged? He feels he’s acting rationally according to the commands of his own history and concience. That he wishes to kill us is our problem, not his. The issue for us is what is our civilization going to do about a gazillion of these individuals, whom we call deranged because we’d have to be deranged to be like them.

It is increasingly obvious that our Government cannot/will not protect us here at home, where there are many such individuals, at UNC, Yale and wherever. At least they’ll not protect us if it makes them feel bad about themselves. The Maryland, Virginia snipers were not “terrorists”…nor the guy who blew up the Israeli gate at the LA airport…nor the guys who are being indoctrinated now in the Virginia madrassas.

So, soon it will dawn on millions of Americans that we have to protect ourselves…and that means a lot of bubbas are going to be very busy violating these “deranged” little puppies’ civil rights. There aren’t enough jails to hold us.

Think that through for a minute and decide if letting these guys make a circus of our lives is just a bit short sighted. None too soon.

Mar 6, 2006 - 5:42 pm 5. wm. tyroler:

“Can you imagine paying fifty thousand a year for your children to listen to instruction from peurile nincompoops like that?”

Nah, they’re paying a mere $15,000 (in-state) or $30,000 (out-of-state) to send their kids to Carolina. (http://studentaid.unc.edu/studentaid/cost/ssa_ug_general.html)

Mar 6, 2006 - 6:01 pm 6. Roger:

I’m talking room, board and tuition.

As for the question of whether someone is deranged or not, it’s not simple issue. Was Mohammed Atta deranged? Was Hitler? One of the more interesting developments I have seen in the blogosphere is the emergence of the shrink/blogger – Neoneocon, ShrinkWrapped, Dr. Sanity, etc. These people, who have had to make the diagnosis, are surprisingly unforgiving about terrorism. Perhaps they know … as thse of who foolow it do … that what is written in DSM is subject to change. But life and death are finite.

Mar 6, 2006 - 6:23 pm 7. gumshoe:

Re: “until the mask comes off”

the duplicity of the
jihadis in non-muslim countries demolishes,
with intent ,the hard won
“innocent until proven guilty”
of western society.

the supine aquiescence of the “moderate muslims”
means they refuse to self-police.

the recent Bahrain demonstration against terror
was not a broad based human-rights
demonstration,but simply plea against
inter-tribal murder.

i can see some answers.

some people insist on looking
under the street lamp for their keys,
coz the light’s “better there”.

anyone who calls Islam a “Religion of Peace”
but knows nothing of the Islamic doctrine of
Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam
is attempting to help you off with your head.

anyone who pretentiously calls themselves and “edgy artist”,but doesn’t know
who Theo van Gogh was,is anxious to relieve you
of your fredoom to speak freely.

Mar 6, 2006 - 6:25 pm 8. Rhod:

Rascalfair might be right, both here and in Europe. Reaction to the ports deal, with 70% in opposition, seems to show that a whole lot of people aren’t convinced that Islam is a religion of peace. Whether they’re right or wrong doesn’t matter once the shooting starts.

Mar 6, 2006 - 6:27 pm 9. gumshoe:

*your freedom to speak freely.

Mar 6, 2006 - 6:32 pm 10. DEagle:

I had to laugh at your post … and then had a good cry. Guess we need to call Jack Bauer if we want to get serious.

Mar 6, 2006 - 8:07 pm 11. Tim:

It seems few in power want to call it terrorism for obvious reasons – those on the right don’t want to unleash vigilantes; those on the left believe, in their heart of hearts, somehow we deserve this. So silence ensues – until the people decide to lead – which, inevitably, will prove the instincts of those in power on the right, well, right. It won’t be pretty.

Mar 6, 2006 - 9:09 pm 12. zefal:

markus,

What Roger is talking about is the “deranged” college official(s) that don’t know what this guy’s intent was even though he’s been pretty upfront about his actions.

We frothing at the mouth wackos know what to do with him and his ilk. The question is what to do with the people who are living along the river d’nile in America.

But a nice diversionary attempt on your part. I give it a C+.

Mar 6, 2006 - 9:24 pm 13. Bruce Badger:

“I don’t think there’s anything we can do before they unmask themselves.”

I plan to post one of “those” cartoons on each of my car doors. Anyone who tries to kill me I can shoot in self defense. My own personal flypaper strategy.

Yeah, yeah. Humor in poor taste. Irresponsible “hate” speech. But my patience is exhausted.

After 9/11 when I saw someone of middle-eastern appearance, my instinct was to feel pity for them for any backlash brought about by the crazies in their midst. But my opinion is slowly calcifying that they are all crazies. (Not middle-easterners, but Muslims.) The car idea is a shameful fantasy today. But a few more of these outrages, and I’ll be touring the mosques with my “Islam sucks” bumper-stickers and a loaded .45.

That’s an ugly admission, isn’t it? But I should just sit idly by while we ignore the nest of Saudi financed vipers preaching hatred, death, and destruction in our midst?

I’d been taught that the Japanese internment was a shameful chapter in American history. (Though Michele Malkin makes a scholarly argument for it’s justification.) But our present circumstances give me perhaps a glimpse of what motivated our grandparents. The Muslims among us have given me NO reason to trust their benign intentions. Indeed the opposite.

I fear the fullblown “Clash of Civilizations” not only will be shortly upon us, but that it’s first battles will be fought not on some distant plain, but in American neighborhoods. And not only will it be ugly, it will fundamentally change America.

Mar 6, 2006 - 9:39 pm 14. Kevin Peters:

Markus:

What to do? Step 1- Make sure that the political, academic, and social leaders start calling Terrorism what it is instead of performing rhetorical handstands in a P.C. effort not to hurt peoples feelings. When someone attempts to kill innocent people and announces his political and religous motivations behind the attempted homicide it is terrorism. The unibomber was crazy and he was a terrorist. When the posters at LGF start killing people or sending money to oranizations that promote terrorism then I will join you in your concerns. As far as I know that hasn’t happened yet and I don’t think it would be smart to redirect intelligence resources in that direction. If you think we should then you can make your argument on why you think that woukd be a wise move. Just a hint about your priorities. Start with killers who want to bring a return to 12th century religous dictatorships, then in your spare time move on to rude posters.

Mar 6, 2006 - 10:38 pm 15. Greenie:

Maybe you should expand your reading beyond LGF.

The actual statements of university officials, i.e, the Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs and the Director of Public Safety, can be found here:

http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/mar06/hitandrun300.030406.

They’re quite reasonable.

The only “official” quoted in the WRAL article that is the basis for LGF post is David Schanzer, director of the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security at Duke University and UNC-Chapel Hill. He’s hardly a university official. But even if he were, here’s his quote in full, not just the Dowdified/LGF version (which ends after the word “Raleigh”):

“‘(They should) understand the roots of it and understand the strategies for addressing it in a constructive way,’ Schanzer said.
He takes the same position as officials at the Islamic Center of Raleigh, who have publicly stated that they do not condone the incident: authorities should decide how Friday’s incident will be classified, and that the investigation should run its due course.
‘Whether or not the FBI decides to charge this individual with a crime of terrorism, I think it was a terroristic act,” Schanzer said.’”

http://www.wral.com/news/7721912/detail.html?rss=ral&psp=news

Hope I didn’t spoil someone’s fun. I know how enjoyable it can be turning tragedy — terroristic or not — into partisan talking points.

Mar 6, 2006 - 10:47 pm 16. gumshoe:

i dunno,Greenie.

on my scale,
it beats turning tragedy into entertainment.

or psychosis into “religion”.

Mar 6, 2006 - 11:23 pm 17. gumshoe:

…and “not condoning the incident”
could be another way of saying
“damning with faint praise”.

not what i’d call vigorous.

Mar 6, 2006 - 11:36 pm 18. thirdfinger:

For those who don’t know the reputation of the school, UNC Chapel Hill is sometimes refered to as “Berkley East” around here. I am not suprised that the ‘intellectual elite’ of the school are having problems with this. Although it appears that some of the students know what this was all about.

http://www.wral.com/news/7721912/detail.html

Mar 7, 2006 - 3:50 am 19. Maggie:

I don’t believe that this act can be called terrorism.

But it certainly can be labeled A HATE CRIME.

Mar 7, 2006 - 4:54 am 20. Always right:

All news report said he’s born in Iran, grew up here. Is he a legalized citizen?

If he’s so incensed about our way, leave. Nobody wants to tie him around here. I heard AQ has good health and vacation benefits.

Mar 7, 2006 - 5:26 am 21. rascalfair:

“We do not condone” is as close to deafening silence as you can get when asked a direct question.

The only proper answer is: “We unequivocally abhor this act, and disassociate ourselves from such people who harm all of us when they harm any of us….Muslim and non-Muslim, alike. We shall assist the U.S. authorities in any way to identify the true enemies of our country, and of our Religion of Peace.”

If there’s that kind of clarification from any of the Muslim Leaders in this or any other such incident, or arrest, or conviction…please post it. If there are a flood of such posts, I’ll be relieved…..if there’s the exception that proves the rule, we’ll know where our enemy is.

He’s here. I don’t like Bruce Badger’s conclusion any more than I like my own, but it’s where we are. The only reason not to fight now is if we’re expecting to be stronger in the future, or our enemy weaker.

The fight is inevitable because they say it is. “When a man says he’s going to kill you, believe him”

Mar 7, 2006 - 6:01 am 22. PeterUK:

Welcome to the new paradigm,we are witnessing the irreconcilable internal contradictions in the multicultural,politically correct edifice constructed by the left.
It is the left which has to be neutralised first,because quite simply they are going to stand by the crumbling madhouse of their own construct,either through ego or doctrinal reasons.
Once the armies of lawyers,journalists,civil liberties and leftist front groups have been push aside,then any real threat can be identified and disposed of in the conventional manner.

Mar 7, 2006 - 7:49 am 23. beautifulatrocities:

It’s only terrorism if the van is loaded with fuel oil & fertilizer & the driver is clutching a copy of the Protocols. Otherwise, not

Mar 7, 2006 - 8:48 am 24. Ruth:

I’m sitting here trying to understand why you think the science departments are not riddled with political correctness and fad science. Every department has its politics, local, state and national. I’m not sure the quest for NSF grants is not one of the worst things to ever happen to pure science. I am very cynical about it.
And as for “is it terrorism?” I saw one of those spokesmen on television news last night and was absolutely embarrassed for him. Pitiful!

Mar 7, 2006 - 9:27 am 25. Barrett:

Gumshoe has pointed out what everyone who loves freedom and liberty, regardless of political affiliation, race or socio-economic standing, should be talking about. That is the Islamic doctrines of Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam.

We can tither over the terrorist label, but that is not the root cause or root issue.

Whether you want to ascribe such incidents as events driven by the clash of civilizations or put it into a geo-political/economic context, these doctrines only point to escalating conflict.

Islam appears to be an inherent threat to our beliefs of freedom, including freedom of speech, and liberty.

I wonder what Roger’s friends, who write the blog, Iraq the Model, think?

Mar 7, 2006 - 11:47 am 26. mrp:

Another strange and sad layer to add to this incident is that while Taheri was conducting his rampage in Chapel Hil, his mother was working as a US translator in Afghanistan..

Mar 7, 2006 - 1:29 pm 27. markus:

Kevin Peters — I had thought that a definition of terrorism involved conspiracy, i.e., at least two people. I don’t have a problem if you wish to expand the definition to include this guy, or the DC sniper John Muhammid (a former Nation of Islam member and admirer of Bin Laden), too. And I’ll defend the right of LGF posters or anyone else to describe the founder of Islam as a pedophile, and other vital bits of information. That’s part and parcel of the free society and I’ll fight to protect it. But it seems to me that any honest assessment of our vulnerabilities as a free, MULTICULTURAL society (which is what we are, for better or worse), leads to the conclusion that stopping FUTURE attacks like what occured in North Carolina is like trying to find the proverbial needle in a haystack. Which begs this question: is there anything useful about DELIBERATELY seeking to inflame more of these needles buried in our national haystack? I can’t think of any.

Talkin’ big picture, now: we may actually have no choice but to fight a War of Civilizations. Or we may not. Things could simmer down before they got out of hand. Such an outcome is to be encouraged, particularly given what a real full-scale war would really look like. This is my only wish: that people now beating the drums for all-out war, or describing scenarios in apocalyptic, Manichean terms that lead one to believe that all-out-war is INEVITABLE, would be more honest about what such a war would necessarily involve: for starters, a draft of young Americans (absolutely necessary for any occupation of Iran), and in all likelihood, concentration camps for Muslims in Europe and perhaps America.

Mar 7, 2006 - 1:41 pm 28. vegetius:

“Which begs this question: is there anything useful about DELIBERATELY seeking to inflame more of these needles buried in our national haystack? I can’t think of any..”

Dang Markus,
You inflame me everyday DELIBERATELY. Could you just practice some self-censorship when responding to my posts. What are you going to do son, tip toe around the Islamofacists and save all your bile for Republicans. What’s the body count got to be before you resign yourself to the fact that we are at war?

Mar 7, 2006 - 1:53 pm 29. freetotem:

The “puerile nincompoops” at this and so many other of our esteemed centers of higher learning who have such trouble discerning the intentions of this young man would have no such trouble discerning the motives of anyone who might have the temerity to, say, condemn Islamism and any on-campus adherents of it. There would be no moral ambiguity there, and the offender would be summarily hustled into some hate speech kangaroo court and out the pillared gates as soon as his parent’s tuition check cleared. These people are not confused, they are on the other side.

Mar 7, 2006 - 2:10 pm 30. markus:

Vegetius — we are at war. But it hasn’t fully escalated to all-out war. And like I said, people who see no alternative to all-out war should be honest about what that would entail.

Mar 7, 2006 - 2:10 pm 31. Charlie (Colorado):

Markus, part of the point in admitting, and acting, toward this was as a war is to avoid the need for all-out total war.

If we’ve have paid attention to the Rheinlandgebiet, we might not have needed to destroy Dresden.

Mar 7, 2006 - 2:29 pm 32. markus:

Charlie — right, but what is Rheinlandgebiet in this context?

In regard to Iran, I see that Hitchens is calling for Bush to do a Nixon in China, including unfreezing assets, the works. Excerpt:

“This means that our options are down to three: reliance on the United Nations/European Union bargaining table, a “decapitating” military strike, or Nixon goes to China. The first being demonstrably useless and somewhat humiliating, and the second being possibly futile as well as hazardous, it might be worth giving some thought to the third of these.”

http://www.slate.com/id/2137560/?nav=tap3

Mar 7, 2006 - 2:43 pm 33. Bruce Badger:

“Which begs this question: is there anything useful about DELIBERATELY seeking to inflame more of these needles buried in our national haystack? ”

Lets see, I inflame them by calling for the publication of cartoons. They inflame me by running over college students in an SUV. We inflame them by insisting that the female GIs stationed in Saudi Arabia not drive, nor do anything else to upset their 7th century customs, they inflame us by flying an airliner into office buildings. We inflame them with the most humane war ever fought to throw out one of the most cruel dictators ever and give them back their country, and they inflame us by sawing off a guys head on television. We are indeed being insensitive. You nailed it. Cursed be those offensive westerners and their lack of respect for Islam.

” This is my only wish: that people now beating the drums for all-out war… be more honest about what such a war would necessarily involve: …in all likelihood, concentration camps for Muslims in Europe and perhaps America. ”

My little personal crusade is to convince MUSLIMS what such a war would look like. Who is the provacatouer here? Innocent college kids? Those who are outraged at such attacks? Or those shouting Allah Akbar as they slaughter?

How long did it take us to utterly destroy the vaunted Republican Guard? And we were pulling our punches. Is there a Muslim country that has a prayer of slugging it out with America and the West? What happens the next time when we decide worrying about civilians is just not worth it? What happens when we damn all Muslims?

What’s the percentage of Muslims in our (USA) population right now? What happens to them if the great unwashed decides they are all plotting the next slaughter of innocents? Do you expect Americans to stand by twiddling their thumbs till the know-nothing politicians, incapacitated by political correctness, decide to act? (The current reaction from the “leaders” in NC is an excellent demonstration of why they won’t. The offical reaction to the bombing last fall in Oklahoma is another. )

It is not us who should seek to avoid inflaming passions. The burden has shifted to those who will incur the wrath of a threatened America. By God, they had better stop provoking US!

Today, I find myself thinking of loyalty tests or massive deportation. Tommorrow it may be concentration camps or vigilante committees. But the day is rapidly approaching when it will be too late for the Muslim community to seek reproachment with those like me. And if you think I am some isolated redneck bigot, you need to widen your reading list. There is a groundswell building. And like a tsunami, it won’t be very discriminating about those it sweeps before it.

Mar 7, 2006 - 3:33 pm 34. Bruce Badger:

We do not condone any of the veiws expressed by Bruce Badgers post. Even though we may sympathize with his frustration, resentment, and rage. Even though we understand how these provocations by the Muslim world may have driven him to make such “extremist” comments, we do not condone his speech or any actions he may feel obligated to take in his understandable defense of his country and his belief system.

And we would most strongly caution against any negative reaction against the greater white male community. We call for peace and calm.

The American Redneck Counsel

Mar 7, 2006 - 3:49 pm 35. Kevin Peters:

Markus:

When the abortion clinic bomber performed his foul, and incredibly Un- Christian acts of murder I did not ask anyone to try to understand his motivations. I am pro-life. But the moment it occurred I called it what it was. Terrorism. I didn’t want to tone it down or get into the sick head of this fiend. If I tried to do this I would be giving credence to the idea that there was the possibility that there was some legitimate reasons for his actions. And if a secular person called him a sick twist I would have taken no offence to that verbal attack even though I am pro life. Because they would be 100% correct in their opinion.

Yes, we have an incredible diversity of religious, secular, political, and ethnic groups in this country. And I love it! It is one of the reasons this country is great. But if we have lowered our standards to the point that someone can’t say that the idea that the Islamo Fascist suicide murder tactic is pure evil then I grieve for my country. The unibomber was a lone idiot that did not have any government or large social faction giving him moral and economic support or double speak rationalizations. The Islamo Facists do. The overwhelming majority of American Muslims have no connection to these idiots. And when I drive by my local Islamic Cultural Center I do not wear a safety helmet. And when I have attended multi faith prayer breakfasts I have enjoyed the beautiful words that the visiting Imams have spoken. But this isn’t complicated. These acts are pure evil. The minute we start calling it evil with no qualifications will not be the moment that the attacks stop. But it will be the moment when our common foes will know that we have lost our naivete and gullability.

Mar 7, 2006 - 4:35 pm 36. markus:

Bruce — don’t mistake me for a PC person. I’m only questioning the likely efficacy of all-out war, which to your credit you are at least willing to contemplate.

You seem to think that Muslim nations ought to be afraid of such a possibility:

“How long did it take us to utterly destroy the vaunted Republican Guard? And we were pulling our punches. Is there a Muslim country that has a prayer of slugging it out with America and the West? What happens the next time when we decide worrying about civilians is just not worth it? What happens when we damn all Muslims?”

All this bluster aside, doesn’t Operation Iraqi Freedom really show us that while we are invincible in battle, we are paper tigers when it comes to long-term occupation of unwilling subjects? We don’t have the will for it, and we’re not good at it, despite our best intentions. I think this is the lesson that most radical Islmaists have learned as well.

Mar 7, 2006 - 4:35 pm 37. markus:

Kevin, imagine me right now yelling out my apartment window, like Howard Beale in Network, at the top of my lungs: He committed an act of terrorism, an act of pure and simple evil. He’s a goddamn TERRORIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now…Why do I not feel any safer? And why do you? And why would our common foes care that you think that we have finally “lost our naivete and gullability.”

Mar 7, 2006 - 4:46 pm 38. Bostonian:

“All this bluster aside, doesn’t Operation Iraqi Freedom really show us that while we are invincible in battle, we are paper tigers when it comes to long-term occupation of unwilling subjects? ”

No, absolutely not.

First, you are mischaracterizing our role in Iraq as “occupation.” We are not running their government; they are, with our encouragement and help.

Second, you mischaracterize the Iraqis as “unwilling subjects.” They are not our subjects, nor will they ever be. They turned out in vast numbers to vote for their own government, which really ought to show you their commitment to their own country. Their goals and ours are the same here. And they increasingly realize that, despite the best efforts of CNN/CBS/ABC and the DNC.

Mar 7, 2006 - 4:57 pm 39. markus:

Bostonian — you do PR for a living?

Mar 7, 2006 - 5:03 pm 40. Kevin Peters:

Markus:

I said that the attacks would not stop if we started calling these acts by their true name. I wasn’t claiming I would feel any safer. I would feel better knowing that the period of mass denial is over. I would feel better knowing that those who think that if we just apologize for tacky cartoons,if we just send out messages of self censorship, if we just negotiate long enough with groups who have stated that their goals, (goals that are below the level of any 21st century rational thinking person can accept) will never be tossed aside, that these people have come to the stunning conclusion that there is a choice to be made. Accept Islamo Fascism or stand up to it. I do not feel safe. This world is in a state that is very scary. Pretending that it is a minor problem that can be solved with a few multi-national agreements and a chorus of “Give peace a Chance” and some hollow cliches about multi-culturalism won’t work.

The Islamo Fascists will travel the world to kill anyone they think has offended them. One of these groups just put Rushdie back on the ten most wanted list. Hamas’s opening negotiation gambit was go back to the 1967 border and we will wait 6 years before we kill the rest of the Jews and make the Middle East a Jew Free zone. And these groups get financial and rhetorical support from people and governments who have the money to help them achieve what they want.

Iran is getting the bomb. I am not a foreign policy expert. But I posted months ago that the Iranians were jerking the E.U. and the U.S. and they had no intention of ever giving up on the Mullah bomb and there was no amount of economic goodies that they would accept to abandon their quest. And the E.U., despite their initial claims of “we will not let this stand” won’t do a thing about it. They won’t sacrafice a single E.U. job to impose real sanctions, and the U.S. won’t go in either. But all we have heard the last two years is “just keep the lines of communication open.” That is a great idea if you have a partner who might change his mind. But they won’t. They have written and broadcast that they won’t hundreds of times. And this is what I mean by naive and gullible. They openly state that they won’t give up on the Mullah bomb, Hamas states day after day that a two state solution will never happen, but their are still legions in the west who seem to think, “Well, they really don’t mean what they say.” They say it, they mean it and they are never going to stop. We have to stop fooling ourselves that they will if we just try to understand and respect them.

Mar 7, 2006 - 6:31 pm 41. RattlerGator:

Markus:

You ask if Bostonian engages in PR for a living and one can’t help but wonder if you engage in masturbation for a living.

We were told by our Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party betters (and their European brethren) that what we were contemplating in Iraq was absolutely, positively impossible.

One thing is certain by now: it damn sure ain’t absolutely, positively impossible.

Hang in there, though. If you keep visiting the four sisters on Thumb Street long enough maybe you’ll make a baby one of these days.

Mar 8, 2006 - 6:12 am 42. markus:

Rattler — I am hurt, crushed, having checked out your cool blog, at the lameness of your ad hominem attack on me, compared to your putdown of Francis Fukayama, which packed a punch. I’ll cut you some slack though, brother, I know that it’s hard out here for a pimp.

Mar 8, 2006 - 7:47 am 43. Bostonian:

Markus, your response to me was an empty sneer, so you don’t exactly have the high ground.

Mar 8, 2006 - 8:49 am 44. Steven Mitchell:

“All this bluster aside, doesn’t Operation Iraqi Freedom really show us that while we are invincible in battle, we are paper tigers when it comes to long-term occupation of unwilling subjects? We don’t have the will for it, and we’re not good at it, despite our best intentions.”

We’d have the will, if it weren’t for the double-speak and faux reasonableness from the left. The refusal to call terrorist acts “terrorism” is part and parcel of that larger problem. I know exactly what an escalated, full-blown war of civilizations will look like. That’s why I’d rather not have one. You don’t get to not have it by pretending that it isn’t already nascent.

I agree with Bruce. Let the Islamic Facists worry about inflaming the “American street”. When we get to the point were we are willing to handle the long-term occupation–or do enough damage in the fight not to need to occupy–then things will get better. That can happen before the full war or after. But things will not get substantially better until someone shoulders that load. (Also, the less wishy washy we are, the more likely that true allies will emerge and stand behind us.)

Mar 8, 2006 - 9:30 am 45. jedrury:

Rattler:

One would expect your type of obscene put down on yahoo chat rooms but not here.

Mar 8, 2006 - 11:44 am 46. markus:

Bostonian — I just couldn’t believe that you actually believed your own rhetoric. Would you really be willing to argue with an Iraqi family that has just had its home searched by American soldiers that they are not subjects of America, or that we are not even occupying the country? Do you really believe that the Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis that came out to vote are committed to the same country?

Mar 8, 2006 - 12:05 pm 47. Bostonian:

Markus,

Yes, yes, and yes.

I am sure some percentage of the country wants us out instantly. I am also sure (from what I have read) that the average Iraqi is in greater danger from and is far angrier at the Al-Qaeda terrorists and Ba’athists than at us. Polls have consistently shown that the Iraqis want us to stay until they have a stable country. And they’re overwhelmingly happy to be rid of Saddam Hussein (can you imagine that?!).

If any Iraqis believe that we are in their country to steal from them or push them around, that is because the US Left has said so repeatedly for the last several years.

The US Left has reduced the entire affair to “occupation bad, soldiers bad, war bad.” If you’d bother to read Iraqi blogs, you’d see that the Iraqis are smart enough to have a more nuanced view than that.

Mar 8, 2006 - 12:29 pm 48. markus:

“If any Iraqis believe that we are in their country to steal from them or push them around, that is because the US Left has said so repeatedly for the last several years.”

Bostonian, this makes NO SENSE!!! Most Iraqis DO NOT SPEAK ENGLISH and DO NOT HAVE CONTACT WITH “THE US LEFT”! They read and watch the Iraqi media, and talk to other Iraqis. And judging by what many of the people they have elected say about us, as well as moderates like Sistani say, we are viewed suspiciously, or worse.

Feel free to believe that the guy who writes Iraq the Model represents your average Iraqi citizen, but the evidence doesn’t back it up.

Mar 8, 2006 - 2:54 pm 49. Bostonian:

Markus,
Come on, use your head. Are you truly so silly as to believe that what happens in the US is known only to English speakers?!

The Iraqis are aware of the US Left and think they’re a bunch of idiots.

For example, one Iraqi named Betty Dawisha, who voted in the last election, was quoted as saying, “whoever doesn’t appreciate what George Bush has done, can go to hell.” You can google this & find it readily enough.

***
According to your view of human nature, Iraqis must resent the US far more than they hated Saddam Hussein. This makes absolutely no sense. Saddam Hussein killed their families, deliberately, to get them to obey him. In contrast, our troops are trying very hard to target only terrorists–and in doing so are risking their lives. One of these things is not like the other.

I simply do not understand the Left’s view of human nature. I conclude (as I have before) that people like you regard the Iraqis as somehow other-than-human.

Mar 8, 2006 - 3:52 pm 50. zefal:

If this were a white person who had done this to a pit full of Arabs or black students and gave the reason for doing it because they were who they were, how do think the college admins and the media would have done?

SCREAM at the top of their lungs “racism”, “Bush”, “Republicans”, “Patriot Act” blah blah blah.

Hell, even if the guy were white and a complete loon who was looking for some people to mow over with his car and they happened to be Arabs or black they still would’ve screamed racism and threw in Bush and Republican culpability for good measure.

Remember the black guy in Texas who was murdered (dragged behind a truck) by the two white guys and the way the media played that up? Justifiably so, btw.

Remember the gay guy who was murdered and the media played it up when they thought it was a “hate crime”. But when it turned out the guy, who murdered him, was his gay lover and he was murdered for threatening to expose their relationship the media lost all interest in it.

And remember when a couple of black guys did likewise and dragged a white guy to death in Texas for retribution and the media didn’t report a thing about it.

Look at how Colmes tries to spin the lack of media interest and remember how they covered the murder of the black guy in Texas.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-3_8_06_TB.html

March 8, 2006
Media Won’t Report Radical Islamic Events
By Tony Blankley

Denial is an often useful innate human trait. Few of us would be able to function in the present if we did not put out of mind many unpleasant realities — such as our inevitable death. The Woody Allen character in the movie “Annie Hall” stated the comic extreme version of not using the denial mechanism when, as a child he refused to do his homework because in 5 billion years the sun would explode, “so, what’s the use?”

Mar 8, 2006 - 7:09 pm

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