66 Comments

1. jedrury:

The booksellers are awash with books about the Middle East, the war on terror, attacks on the president, the new new Democratic Party [a comedy]; a reader can not sort through wave upon wave of liberal screed. The wholesalers have alot to do with it; spot the racks in the airports, foreign and domestic. Besides the mysteries and bodice rippers, the racks are packed with liberal and feminist garbage (Moore and Franken and Cornwell). The attention needed to focus on what is worthwhile as you rush to your flight is limited, fleeting. Conservatives know who Reynolds is but do liberals really know who the real KOS is. I doubt it.

Apr 26, 2006 - 10:19 am 2. Kevin Peters:

Roger:
You should know by now what the kossak response will be. It’s Bush’s fault. There is actually a legion of kos fans who want to buy the book but they are being forced by the corrupt Bush regime to choose between feeding their 2 year old child who is dying of cancer or buying the book. The cancer was caused by the oil companies and they no longer have Health insurance because they lost their money to Kenny boy in the Enron crash. And because Wal Mart forced out all the independent book stores and there is no rapid transit(oil companies again) they can’t get to the bookstore. And people who want to buy the book are afraid of retribution because we live in a Bush=Hitler police state where the chill winds of censorship(Dixie Chicks, Tim Robbins) are taking over our beloved democracy. Plus his natural market is being forced to join the Armed forces and is dying in Iraq. And don’t get me started on Fox News (Tony Snow, Mind control). Follow the Money!

Apr 26, 2006 - 10:32 am 3. Old Dad:

I admit that I’m old and cranky, but I don’t want a bunch of punks crashing my gate.

And my kids, who might enjoy it, are busy with school, sports, the usual stuff.

So who’s left. A few malcontents with too much time on their hands. Spending 15 minutes venting your spleen at the Daily Kos for free ain’t the same as shelling out a Jackson and sitting down for an hour or two. Oh, and Kos can’t write.

Who’s the marketing genius who put this deal together?

Apr 26, 2006 - 10:36 am 4. In Vino Veritas:

Uh, Roger, you link to an Amazon page selling “An Army of Davids,” where its rank is #1,657.

Markos’ book is currently ranked #27 on Amazon.

How does this information back your assertion that Reynolds’ book is “selling much better?”

Further, you write that the low sales of Markos’ book are due to the fact that “People are tired of all this political blather anyway.”
Then, why is Glenn Greenwald’s book, “How Would a Patriot Act” currently ranked #1 on Amazon?

Avidly awaiting responses detailing the inherent bias of Amazon.com.

Apr 26, 2006 - 10:54 am 5. Godzilla:

Well, In Vino Veritas, going by Drudge’s tally of books sold, I think we can safely say that the rankings on Amazon, apart from bragging rights, can’t be taken as evidence of high sales.

Apr 26, 2006 - 11:02 am 6. Kevin Peters:

VV:
Instead of using ‘daily ranking, which can jump wildly, use actual books sold. Maybe Kos is selling better then Reynolds. I don’t know whether Drudge is correct. If Kos is selling more books then Drudge reports you might want to inform us. But you have to admit Books sold over a month is better indicator then Amazon rankings on a particular day.

Apr 26, 2006 - 11:12 am 7. In Vino Veritas:

going by Drudge’s tally of books sold

Well, that’s the point. Sorry, but I’d trust Amazon over Drudge any day, especially when he provides no link or backup to his assertion on book sales.

When Drudge first tried to make this an issue, Markos replied that the book had sold 5,100 copies in pre-order, that is, before it was actually released.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/9/11840/77043

Given Reynolds and Markos’ books came out about the same time, and given their wildly disparate rankings now on the number one seller of books in the world, I’d say it’s a safe bet that Crashing the Gate has outsold An Army of Davids. Interesting, if you’re keeping score, which apparently the right side of the blogosphere is.

Apr 26, 2006 - 11:22 am 8. Godzilla:

Amazon is just one retailer. Drudge is citing the tally from

Nielson’s Bookscan which tracks over 4,000 outlets.

It seems to be impartial. Percentages and rankings can be misleading. Right now, at this instant, you could probably say that Kos’s book is outselling Reynold’s on Amazon. Last week did it? Will it tomorrow, or in the next two hours? More importantly, if it does or it does not, it will still not give an indication of total sales.

Apr 26, 2006 - 11:40 am 9. tim maguire:

IVV, I’m with you that amazon is more trustworthy than Drudge when it comes to books, but you’re using amazon rankings for something there were never intended to do. They are a snapshot, not a movie and amazon’s snapshot of book sales tells you nothing about the total number of books sold.

In short, Drudge and amazon are not disagreeing about the same thing, they are talking about two different things.

I was surprised at the Kos sales figures and I find #3 as the most sensible explanation–there just aren’t as many Kossacks out there as I thought (IVV–a kossack is more than merely someone who visits the Daily Kos and gets added to their site count).

Low sales can be explained by all of the above, but sales this low mean not many people really give a damn what Markos thinks.

Apr 26, 2006 - 11:48 am 10. Roger:

IVV, with all due respect, having published ten novels (translated in 12 languages) I have been around the block on this a bit. Amazon numbers do not correlate because, in part, the vast bulk of books in the US these days is sold by Barnes & Noble (sadly). Kos is not selling. I don’t know what his advance is, but I’d guess his publisher (sold a bill of goods on the drawing power of the Daily Kos) is taking a bath.

Also in my experience, Amazon numbers jump around wildly. My last published novel, Director’s Cut, spent about two hours hovering around 110 (must have been my family), then crashed later that night to somewhere around nine thousand. Now it’s in the doldrums like most backlist books. The most successful release of any of my books was the paperback of Peking Duck, which came out when The Big Fix movie was in the theatres. Sold nearly a million copies but I didn’t find out until years later. Publisher (Warners) never told me. Still didn’t earn back the (middling) advance. The most creative work is by the accounting department.

Apr 26, 2006 - 11:59 am 11. In Vino Veritas:

Roger, I’d defer to you on this. I’d still like to see some backup to the assertion that Markos’ book is not selling. I understand that Nielsen is proprietary, but if Drudge can quote from their reports, he can show us the report.

Apr 26, 2006 - 12:06 pm 12. Old Dad:

IVV,

Let’s do a little experiment. If Drudge is right, I should be able to find two people in my small town of 100,000 who have actually purchased Kos’ book. I’ll be right back.

No luck yet, but I did find one kid who thought Air America sucked.

Apr 26, 2006 - 12:17 pm 13. In Vino Veritas:

Markos’ response:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/26/144354/599

He claims that the book has sold 10,000 copies in the three weeks it has been released, 50,000 copies have been pre-ordered, and the book has gone through three printings.

Obviously, something is being lost here in translation.

Apr 26, 2006 - 12:19 pm 14. scribe10:

Why are you giving free publicity to this book?

Apr 26, 2006 - 12:32 pm 15. ed:

Hmmm.

Simple enough. Go to your local Barnes & Noble, or what have you, and try to find a copy of his book that’s listed as a 3rd or 4th printing.

*shrug* or ask the manager of the bookstore.

Apr 26, 2006 - 12:38 pm 16. ed:

Hmmmm.

Obviously, something is being lost here in translation.

Not really. What you need to keep in mind that books are an extremely *different* product. They’re not like any other product in the universe and they hold to completely different rules, some of which are frankly insane. *Note that software, such as games, are treated in much the same fashion.

It’s entirely possible that there are 50,000 pre-orders for the book. That does NOT mean that there are 50,000 people who pre-ordered the book, it just means that a number of customers, retailers, wholesalers and distributors have ordered a total of 50,000 copies.

Now how could that translate into very low *actual* sales figures?

Because a book that’s pre-ordered isn’t necessarily a book that’s sold. And it’s the number of books actually sold that Neilson is tracking, not the pre-orders. Frankly I think some publishers artificially pump up the pre-order numbers just to get some marketing hype going.

Say I’m a bookseller. I pre-order 500 copies of Kos’s book. The publisher tells Kos, and the world, that the number of pre-orders has increased by 500. I get the books and sell 25 of them, but the rest don’t move off the shelves worth a damn. I then send the remaining 475 books back to the publisher who then cuts a check to pay me back the cost of the books that aren’t sold.

So it’s possible for a book to have large pre-orders because everyone thinks the book will do big, and for the actual sales figures to suck. Which of course leaves the publisher holding the bag.

*shrug* I may be wrong about this, if so I’d appreciate a correction by Roger.

Apr 26, 2006 - 12:47 pm 17. Rick Ballard:

I think Moulitsas’ publisher made a huge mistake in choosing pastels orver primary colors for the Crayola “Buy one, get a free box” promotion. What were they thinking of?

Apr 26, 2006 - 1:03 pm 18. Kevin Peters:

Roger;
It’s sounds like the Book industry is similar to the accounting in the movie industry in that at the end of the day those actors who get a % of the profits find out somehow no films make a profit. It seems that, unless Drudge is fabricating stats, that Drudge is actually tracking book sales rather then pre-orders and thus would seem to be more accurate. He also seems to be tracking the number of books sold at a discount. In my short perusal through the different tracking systems all I can say is that the truth on book sales seems hard to find.

Apr 26, 2006 - 1:05 pm 19. BenJCarter:

Perhaps this isn’t so much a right vs left issue as it is a moderate vs extreme issue. In my opinion classifying Glenn Reynolds as right wing is not accurate. Except for the Iraq war (where middle ground appears to be non-existant) he is middle of the road. After all, I don’t think the Powerline bloggers agree with his position on Gay marriage. Kos, however, is extremely partisan and only appeals strongly to those who belong to the church of anti-republicanism.

Another possibility is that Glenn’s book (which I have not read, nor Kos’ either) seems to be less about politics than it is about the many ways technology has empoweed the individual in the information age. Kos’ book on the other hand is about politics (it has the word politics right in the title).

Anyway, with all the realtime political commentary already available, who wants to pay for it

Just my uninformed, long winded $.02. Thanks for the soapbox and the excellent blog Roger!

Apr 26, 2006 - 1:18 pm 20. Diecast Dude:

Gee.¬† I know the sales of my book are in the basement.¬† Maybe I can claim everyone pre-bought it too…

Apr 26, 2006 - 1:30 pm 21. David Thomson:

I bought a copy of Crashing the Gate. Itís a wonderful book—if you are an unabashed Republican partisan like myself. Moreover, I even wrote an Amazon.com customer review entitled ìArmstrong and Zuniga: Best Friends of Karl Rove?î Were my comments vicious? Not at all, I even gave the two gentlemen a five star rating! They are so wonderful. Their advice to the Democratics guarantees Republican victories for many years into the future. Could the evil Rove be slipping them a few bucks under the table?

Apr 26, 2006 - 1:36 pm 22. Old Dad:

IVV,

Got one..finally..sort of. A kid about 22 I’d guess, pretty nervous. I think he thought I was a cop. He had the book in his hand and was kinda jogging through the mall. He’d lifted it from Barnes and Noble for his girl friend. Said he never read “shit like that,” but thought it might get him, well, you know.

Apr 26, 2006 - 2:43 pm 23. Randal Robinson:

The most likely reason that the Kos book is up to #27 on Amazon is that the free publicity by Drudge and blogs like this linking to it and talking about it has caused a temporary spike in sales. Expect it to sink back down to it’s normal spot within a couple of days.

Apr 26, 2006 - 4:35 pm 24. bbbustard:

I was reading Drudge and he proved how there are many, many more visitors to this site than to The Daily Kos.
No, he made no reference to any verifiable,legitimate fact -but that’s OK. Right?
Congratulations on your newfound popularity!

Apr 26, 2006 - 4:36 pm 25. Sandy P:

I just read the title of this posting – how timely, considering Yankee Doodle Dandy was on last week.

Apr 26, 2006 - 4:53 pm 26. David Thomson:

I strongly recommend that everyone reads Crashing the Gate—and I am not being the least bit facetious. The Daily Kos crowd possesses the veto power over the Democratic Partyís presidential nominee. They will be a force to be reckoned with for many years into the distant future. It is illegal to murder them. Thus, the Democratic Partyís ìmainstreamî leadership can only attempt to marginalize these extremists. And the Internet makes this virtually impossible.

Please go to page 25. The authors argue for economic polices popular in the 1960s. They forget that this is 2006 and an adversarial attitude towards the business community will be resoundingly reject by voters in the red and purple states. Few Americans regrettably embrace my fairly libertarian view. I am, for instance, in favor of eliminating all corporate taxes. Should I hold my breath? Still, the majority of Americans voters feel uncomfortable with politicians who advocate further government intrusion into the private sector.

Apr 26, 2006 - 5:11 pm 27. LemonDrop:

Here’s a thought for the masses. I’m always suspicious when I walk into a bookstore and all I see is “Bush” bashing books displayed. I immediately think of an ulterior motive.

So I am voting Republican again this fall. Don’t mess with me by trying to shape my voting record by posting low poll numbers, bashing Bush, diverting the real issues, etc.

No one ever bashes Carter over his protege, the murdering Mugabe. He must be so proud of all the white SA farmers being murdered for simply being white.

Pfffft.

Apr 26, 2006 - 5:24 pm 28. Peter Porcupine:

This is larely anecdotal, but I have always believed that Liberals borrow books and Conservatives buy them.

This goes back to the Bill Bennet ‘Virtues’ books, and other sales blockbusters by Buckley, Will, Sowell, et al. Even McCain and Guiliani, who can’t write either.

The sales figures on Mr. and Mrs. Clinton’s books, for instance, have been rather untrumpeted.

Perhaps this phenomenon goes back to Nixon’s Six Crises?

Apr 26, 2006 - 9:41 pm 29. kparker:

Ed’s hypo about preorders vs actual sales put me in mind of a wonderful poem. It’s good to be reminded of it now and then. Thanks, Ed!

Apr 27, 2006 - 12:52 am 30. Harley:

Oh, c’mon, Roger. Envy is a poor excuse for lazy links and even lazier thinking. Read Greenwald’s efficient takedown of the Drudge bleat that started it all, here. And if possible, do better next time. Schadenfreude is all well and good. But at the very least it should be based on fact, not wishful thinking.

Apr 27, 2006 - 8:39 am 31. dclydew:

Well, as a wise man once said, there are three kinds of lies… Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics. While Glenn and Kos slug it out for who’s got the best seller *cough*, I thought I’d take a look at the touchstone for American Book Sales, the NYT Bestseller List, based on the actual sales of 4000 booksellers (week ending 4-15)

The most interesting thing I noticed was that only three overtly political books were in the top list (not counting “Laura Bush” which seems a sort of biography). Number 4 (down from #3 and on the list for 4 weeks)American Theocracy which was written by an ex-republican who is against the current administration. Number 9 (down from #6 and on the list for 5 wks) was Cobra II, which portrays the Iraqi War in a rather unfavorable light.

Finally, number 20 (older rankings not listed) is “Battle For Peace” by Gen. Zinni, and I think we’re all aware of his position.

Glenn and Kos don’t even show up on the full list… to me this may make a very key statement about the importance (or lack thereof) of the blogsphere among the general populace. While those of us who frequent blogs are aware of Kos and Glenn and MJT and etc… Most people I know don’t seem particluarly interested in the Blogsphere. Only my most politically crazy of friends ever seem to quote/repost/link to or rant about blogs.

I also found it quite interesting that by far the most books sold were ones discussing recent contraversies about Christianity (Gospel of Judas, Misquoting Jesus, Holy Blood, Holy Grail/Da Vinci etc)… could it be that people might be returning to the examination of their faith, since upon examining their politics, they found only beuraucratic oafs and theiving scoundrals?

Or are the average american citizens simply tired of the partisan bullshitting? Neither party, at this point seems honest, consistant or even remotely trustworthy, at least not to me.

Apr 27, 2006 - 8:53 am 32. Always right:

I wonder why Kos himself would admit his book doesn’t sell.

Let’s see if there is another (or the same) publisher for his next book, with a big advance check of course.

Maybe he should take lessons from both the clintons.

Apr 27, 2006 - 10:30 am 33. Kevin Peters:

Roger:
I read most of the links. No one seems to be able to report the exact number of books sold as of say, last week. Harley, I went to the link and I went to the link at the Kos site. As of yet, I have seen some hard figures and some approximations. now I know most book sales are connected to some type of computer tracking, why is it so hard to get exact figures, Kos sold x, Reynolds sold y, instead of talks of pre orders and the number of editions printed.. How many sold, how many at full price, how many at a discounted price. I spent some time in retail and I know those figures can be pulled by most organizations at the drop of the hat. Why the mystery. Why does Amazon have rankings instead of just This book has sold x numbers of copies at the average price of x.

Apr 27, 2006 - 10:49 am 34. mswaine:

Do you have any source other than Drudge? If not, you’re wasting everyone’s time.

Apr 27, 2006 - 11:35 am 35. Blogesota:

From Crooks and Liars. Roger, I think we need a retraction in the “self-correcting” blogosphere.

—————
It’s amazing how quickly Drudge’s nonsense gets passed around as fact by certain right wing bloggers. Why would Roger Simon, who should know a little about the book industry write this utter fabrication without any proof?

“Although it underscores what we already knew-that Glenn Reynolds (whose book is selling much better) has remarkable respect in the blogosphere for his integrity and intelligence – I must say I am surprised at the relatively pathetic sales figures for Markos Zuniga”

“Crashing the Gate,” is in the Top Fifty on Amazon while Glenn Greenwald is still #1. (via tbogg:) “Michelle Malkin? #1,172 Glenn Reynolds? #1049. Hugh Hewitt? #7,300. all are in the toilet compared to Kos.

Kos explains it in more detail.

Glenn Greenwald examines it thoroughly:

“Don’t they have somewhere lurking in their brain any critical faculties at all? For the sake of one’s own integrity and reputation if nothing else, who would read an undocumented assertion on Drudge — no matter how much of an emotional need they feel for it to be true — and then run around reflexively reciting it as truth, writing whole posts celebrating it and analyzing it, without bothering to spend a second of time or a molecule of mental energy trying to figure out if it’s really true?…read on

Apr 27, 2006 - 11:37 am 36. bloviator:

“Crashing the Gate,” is in the Top Fifty on Amazon while Glenn Greenwald is still #1. NUMBER ONE!
“Michelle Malkin? #1,172
Glenn Reynolds? #1049.
Hugh Hewitt? #7,300.
“all are in the toilet compared to Kos and Greenwald.”

What utter nonsense. The facts reveal the absolute failure on the part of Simon to do just a modicum of research.

“Michelle Malkin? #1,172
Glenn Reynolds? #1049.
Hugh Hewitt? #7,300.

Apr 27, 2006 - 11:41 am 37. Bostonian:

Bloviator,
Your post reveals your absolute failure to read the comments on this thread.

As previous commentators have noted, Amazon rankings are a snapshot of the recent sales, not a reflection of overall number of volumes sold.

My dad has a book and his Amazon ranking has fluctated wildly, at one time being in the top 500. This does not reflect the number of copies he sold by any stretch of the imagination.

Apr 27, 2006 - 11:45 am 38. In Vino Veritas:

So, someone has quoted Nielsen reports for “An Army of Davids.” It has sold less, according to Bookscan, than “Crashing the Gate.”

I wonder, would Roger care to revise his remarks that Reynolds’ book is “selling much better?”

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/007480.html#007480

“As of this morning, for Reynoldsí An Army of Davids (February 2006), Bookscan reports 1716 retail sales and 2609 ìdiscountî sales, for a total of 4325.”

Apr 27, 2006 - 11:51 am 39. dickchainey:

I strongly recommend that everyone reads “American Theocracy”—and I am not being the least bit facetious. The Christian Right possesses the veto power over the GOP’s presidential nominee. They will be a force to be reckoned with for many years into the distant future. It is illegal to murder them. Thus, the GOP’s “mainstream” leadership can only attempt to marginalize these extremists. And the Internet makes this virtually impossible.

Former Nixon strategist Kevin Phillips book “American Theocracy” is currently #4 on the NYTimes bestseller list.

Apr 27, 2006 - 11:55 am 40. LyingRepublicans:

Who the hell is Roger Simon? Why should we care what he says about anyones book? Sounds like jealousy to me.

Apr 27, 2006 - 12:20 pm 41. A Hermit:

Greenwald links to Making Light where it is reported:

“As of this morning, for ReynoldsÔøΩ An Army of Davids (February 2006), Bookscan reports 1716 retail sales and 2609 ÔøΩdiscountÔøΩ sales, for a total of 4325.

As of this morning, for Armstrong and KosÔøΩs Crashing the Gate (March 2006), Bookscan reports 2598 retail sales and 1804 ÔøΩdiscountÔøΩ sales, for a total of 4402. “

Embarassed yet Mr. Simon? You should be…

Apr 27, 2006 - 12:22 pm 42. Bostonian:

DickChainey Troll,

Cute.

You repeat the big lie that Republicans are “scary Bible people.” How original.

For one, when I finally saw past this lie, I stopped voting for Democrats. The bullying done by your side guarantees that this change is permanent.

Apr 27, 2006 - 12:23 pm 43. festus:

I think it’s pretty clear that Roger has goofed here, especially if you wanna compare kos to instapundit. But anyway, neither kos or instapundit’s book sales are anything to shout about. The main problem is why pay for something you can get online for free? I haven’t read a word of either book but could probably recite the premise and conclusion of each just from being familiar with the two writers. A second problem is that while I have read both of them for years, I don’t think of either of them particularly as strong “writers.” They’re more like information clearinghouses.

Apr 27, 2006 - 12:32 pm 44. Constantine:

While we can all agree that Roger Simon’s claims about the book sales numbers of Moulitsas’ book vs. Reynolds book are not actually true, the point is that as far as the blog readership is concerned, (a) the numbers should be true, and (b) Simon’s claims are part of a message that needs to “get out there.” So quibbling over the actual numbers isn’t really of much relevance. The numbers Roger Simons are imbued with truth due to the faith imbued by Mr. Simon’s (and Mr. Drudge’s) readership.

These are elements of faith, as it were, and this is about promoting a faith in which Moulitsas’s numbers will be lower than Reynolds’s and Hewitt’s. For Simon to write a post contradicting the numbers that were presented as part of the daily message would be an act of malice towards the faithful.

Apr 27, 2006 - 12:59 pm 45. Mona:

Roger, I am utterly disappointed in your crass and uncivil — not to mention false — dissing of a book merely because it is written by a blogger whose politics you do not like. Having lost confidence in George Bush (and being quite alarmed at his claims to unlimited Executive power), I may simply be more sensitive to the small-mindedness of some of his remaining supporters; maybe it always was there and I didn’t see it when I was in the pro-Bush camp.

But I didn’t think Roger Simon would ever post something so crude and in such bad form.

As to the commenter who wrote:The most likely reason that the Kos book is up to #27 on Amazon is that the free publicity by Drudge and blogs like this linking to it and talking about it has caused a temporary spike in sales. Expect it to sink back down to it’s normal spot within a couple of days.

No. Glenn Greenwald’s book (the contents of which I am somewhat familiar with) is not remotely a “leftist screed” and should be read by one and all, especially Americans; he and Kos have the same publisher, and Amazon is offering Kos’s book as a package deal discount with Greenwald’s; Greenwald’s is #1 at Amazon (where it deserves to be). He’s pulling Kos up some. (Per your theory, Reynolds’ book should also be skyrocketing at Amazon.)

The subject matter of Greenwald’s book transcends left v. right. It raises fundamental issues of the nature of our government, and explores the reasons why I and many non-leftists join with liberals in objecting to George Bush’s notion’s of Executive power. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

Apr 27, 2006 - 1:07 pm 46. dickchainey:

Bostonian,
Your post reveals your absolute failure to read the comments on this thread.

Apr 27, 2006 - 1:10 pm 47. Pat Curley:

Greenwald’s going to have to correct his embarrassing post. He makes a huge deal out of how the Bookscan numbers don’t include online sales. How does he know this? Because he trusted Kos.

I emailed Bookscan and they sent back a list of the outlets they survey.

Ditto for all the folks attacking Rog here. You screwed up–you trusted Greenwald/Kos.

Apr 27, 2006 - 1:28 pm 48. dclydew:

Bostonian,

I think you missed the joke… Someone had made an earlier post about reading Kos’s book, which dickcheney spoofed.

So I’m excited to see the self-correcting blogshpere fix this error (which could have been made in perfect innocence). I am happy that we will not suffer under the MSM and their inability to simply say when they are wrong. I find it pleasing to know that those who write Blogs are more fair-minded and not simply engaging in the same partisan smearing that the MSM has so abusively engaged in. We shall prove that humans can provide fair and balanced information, without engaging in the propagandizing of their own personal politics. Mr. Drudge wouldn’t do that. Mr. Simon wouldn’t do that.

At least, no more so than Mr. Rather…..

eww.

Apr 27, 2006 - 1:31 pm 49. dclydew:

Pat Curley,

Nice catch… however, even the numbers from Bookscan place Kos slightly ahead of Reynolds (by 100 books or so). However, they’re still so far down the lsit as to make this entire discussion a complete waste of time. Less than 10,000 people have purchased either of these books… to try to make any statement as to popularity based on a group that small seems absolutely silly. under 10,000 for total sales causes me to wonder if anyone outside their devoted readership is actually buying either book.

Apr 27, 2006 - 1:38 pm 50. fred:

I’m sure that Roger’s post was motivated by an objective consideration of sales figures and not by blind partisanship. Thus given revelations about the actual sales figures, I have taken the liberty of revising his post for him:

Although it underscores what we already knew – that Markos Zuniga (whose book is selling much better) has remarkable respect in the blogosphere for his integrity and intelligence – I must say I am surprised at the relatively pathetic sales figures for Glenn Reynold’s book “An Army of Davids.” It could mean one of several things: 1. Reynolds’ audience has heard it all already; 2. Reynolds’ audience is not “bookish”; 3. Reynolds’ audience is not as big as it’s cracked up to be; 4. Reynolds doesn’t write particularly well; 5. Reynolds doesn’t have anything new to say. 6. People are tired of all this political blather anyway.

Cheers!

Apr 27, 2006 - 1:42 pm 51. David Thomson:

ìI strongly recommend that everyone reads “American Theocracy”—and I am not being the least bit facetious. The Christian Right possesses the veto power over the GOP’s presidential nominee. They will be a force to be reckoned with for many years into the distant future. It is illegal to murder them. Thus, the GOP’s “mainstream” leadership can only attempt to marginalize these extremists. And the Internet makes this virtually impossible.î

“I think you missed the joke… Someone had made an earlier post about reading Kos’s book, which dickcheney spoofed.”

I am a theological modernist and not a member of the so-called Christian Right. Kevin Phillipsí hyperbolic description of their political goals is outright embarrassing. But do they possess veto power over the Republican presidential nominee selection? Yes, I think this is indeed the case. However, what does that mean in practical terms? How radical is their agenda? I will be blunt and not sidestep the issue. The religious conservatives wish to outlaw abortion except in cases where the motherís life is in danger. Also, they are against gay marriage? If you disagree, can you live with these compromises? Who threatens you more? The Daily Kos or the ìReligious Right?î I have already made my choice—and you will have to make yours.

Apr 27, 2006 - 1:57 pm 52. Kenneth Ashford:

Pat Curley,

While it is true that Bookscan does capture Amazon sales (you can get confirmation by googling “Bookscan panel” and clicking the first result — a Powerpoint presentation), it STILL is undisputed that it only captures, by its own admission, 65% to 70% of the market.

As ddydew suggests, when you are talking about book sales under 10,000, it’s pretty silly to make any concrete conclusions about sales strength, as both Drudge (and *certainly* Mr. Simon) do.

And if you ARE going to attempt to make broad conclusions (as they both do), wouldn’t it be wise and honorable to at least provide the necessary sourcing (and caveats to that sourcing)? Kos at least did that; Drudge and Simon did not.

Apr 27, 2006 - 2:00 pm 53. Mona:

Ditto for all the folks attacking Rog here. You screwed up–you trusted Greenwald/Kos.

Greenwald published an update stating that tho it is hard to ascertain when Bookscan includes online sales, that he may not have been correct in that aspect of his claims about Kos’s sales. As Greenwald also points out, however, his larger, central claim stands; Powerline and Roger behaved like petulant juveniles in dissing Kos’s sales in purported contrast to Reynolds’. The fact is, Kos is out-selling Reynolds, so all of Roger’s blather about why Kos supposedly has “pathetic” sales, and why the oh-so-intelligent Reynolds is doing much better, is simply baseless and wrong.

I’ve yet to see any updates or corrections from Powerline or Rogers, who should also be apologizing for behaving like small-minded, partisan hacks. Reynolds himself had the good grace to publicly doubt their claims. So, where is it Roger?

Apr 27, 2006 - 2:06 pm 54. Danny Guam:

Ha Ha.

Apr 27, 2006 - 2:09 pm 55. dickchainey:

Kevin Phillips hyperbolic description of their political goals is outright embarrassing. – David Thomson

The Daily Kos crowd possesses the veto power over the Democratic Party’s presidential nominee…… It is illegal to murder them – David Thomson

Yes, that Kevin Phillips certainly is hyperbolic.

Apr 27, 2006 - 2:45 pm 56. JK Ribera:

Isn’t all about Nielsen scores? Are they ling?

Apr 27, 2006 - 3:35 pm 57. Mork:

Truthiness!

Apr 27, 2006 - 3:41 pm 58. JK Ribera:

Sorry about that. I meant lying, not ling. I would think, however, that in reality both Reynolds and Kos are doing more poorly than expected in their book sales.

Apr 27, 2006 - 3:47 pm 59. David Thomson:

ìKevin Phillips hyperbolic description of their political goals is outright embarrassing. – David Thomson

The Daily Kos crowd possesses the veto power over the Democratic Party’s presidential nominee…… It is illegal to murder them – David Thomson

Yes, that Kevin Phillips certainly is hyperbolic.î

I am not employing hyperbolic language in describing the threat the Daily Kos poses to the Democratic Party establishment. And there is simply no legal way he can be marginalized. The Internet makes this virtually impossible. Political assassination is the only way to stop the Daily Kos—and thankfully this is still illegal in the United States.

Kevin Phillips is an bigot. I listened to him during a discussion with Dennis Praeger. Phillips has no idea what he is talking about. His view of conservative Christians (and Jews) is a slanderous caricature. Once again, I do not subscribe to their theological tenets. I speak as an outsider.

Apr 27, 2006 - 3:48 pm 60. Captain Hate:

Where’d all the trolls come from? Did Kos command his robotic minions that if they can’t get a job and buy his crummy book to go bother people at relatively erudite sites, which could be just about anywhere? Don’t they have some elections to lose next week?

Apr 27, 2006 - 5:31 pm 61. W.B. Reeves:

Kevin Phillips is an bigot. I listened to him during a discussion with Dennis Praeger. Phillips has no idea what he is talking about. His view of conservative Christians (and Jews) is a slanderous caricature. Once again, I do not subscribe to their theological tenets. I speak as an outsider.

I can well believe that you are an outsider to Conservative Christian circles, if in fact you believe that their only goals are banning abortion and gay marriage. Or if you believe that there is a single, uniform agenda which is embraced by everyone flying the “Conservative Christian” colors. Frankly, I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. This leads me to be sceptical of your claims regarding Phillips’ “hyperbole”, though I freely admit to having not read the book in question. My view of the topic is shaped entirely by my own direct research and experience.

As for the embarrassing post by Roger Simon, I throw in my lot with those who judge the whole business to be petty and a waste of band width.

Apr 27, 2006 - 5:35 pm 62. Ed Cone:

Glenn Reynolds says: ” I was a bit skeptical about the Drudge numbers on Kos’s book, and it turns out I was right to be. A publishing insider sends me some info that makes Drudge look kind of bad.”

More from Glenn: “Kos’s book clearly is on the way for better than average…that’s very respectable. Drudge should know better than to report a decently selling book as stalled. As it stands, he’s misreporting the situation.”

Apr 27, 2006 - 6:28 pm 63. Bostonian:

dickchainey, ddclydew,

I did not miss the “joke.” I thought it was “cute.”

I was drawing attention to the fact that in this “joke,” dickchainey repeats one of the big lies that the left always tells.

Yeah, funny.

Apr 27, 2006 - 6:28 pm 64. Pat Curley:

I think it’s fair to say that we don’t really know what the numbers are.

Reynolds did say he was outselling the numbers Drudge was reporting for Kos, although he doubted the latter. Greenwald does seem in his second update to be pointing to the source of numbers that he expressed so much doubt about and accepting them to prove the point that Kos’ sales are better than Reynolds’.

I suspect that Kos’ book is outselling Reynolds’; that makes some sense to me, given their relative traffic and the communal nature of Daily Kos. I suspect that they are both selling more than reported.

Hugh Hewitt’s numbers have got to be way off. I remember in 2004 him coming to Phoenix for a book signing and there were easily a couple hundred people there.

Apr 27, 2006 - 6:35 pm 65. circlethewagons:

A pissing contest between the faithful (on either side) just gets everyone else wet (not to mention annoyed and smelly).

That said, I’m surprised that both books are selling that poorly – man, you could fit both sets of buyers into Madison Square Garden and still have plenty of room left over.

Yeah yeah, I know its relatively early, but still – that’s kind of sad.

Apr 27, 2006 - 9:24 pm 66. mythusmage:

Folks, if you think sales tracking is bad in mainstream publishing, take a look at the business of publishing roleplaying game material. There the only record kept of sales is a voluntary survey that maybe a fraction of sales outlets answer, and most of them quess at how many books etc. they actually sold. Nine times out of ten how well the business did any quarter depends greatly on how diligently retailers kept track of sales and re-orders. If a couple of big stores forget to fill out the form, the RPG business has a huge crash.

At our current implementation of tracking technology the best we’re going to get is wildly inaccurate and contradictiory sales figures.

BTW, when it comes to game and comic book stores (where the RPG sales figures are (haphazardly) obtained), many of them still use mechanical cash registers and record all sales on paper slips. Very often the database consists of moldering paper crammed into shoe boxes. Bookstore sales are simply not included in the survey.

Apr 28, 2006 - 2:23 am

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