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	<title>Comments on: Occam&#8217;s Razor meets the Separation  of Powers</title>
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		<title>By: Trochilus</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78469</link>
		<dc:creator>Trochilus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 17:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>One additional observation, if I may: Proof positive that brevity truly is the soul of wit.

Eugene Volokh, over at the Volokh Conspiracy, reacted here,

http://volokh.com/posts/1148525780.shtml

to the Congressional suggestion that they will hold hearings on the &quot;unconstitutional,&quot; though judicially-sanctioned execution of the search warrant at the Office of Congressman Jefferson, and he (Volokh) selected what he termed:

&quot;My Favorite Suggestion for More Congressional Hearings, from an anonymous comment to Orin&#039;s post below:&quot;

&quot;WARRANTS: Not good enough for us, too good for you.&quot;

Heh.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One additional observation, if I may: Proof positive that brevity truly is the soul of wit.</p>
<p>Eugene Volokh, over at the Volokh Conspiracy, reacted here,</p>
<p><a href="http://volokh.com/posts/1148525780.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://volokh.com/posts/1148525780.shtml</a></p>
<p>to the Congressional suggestion that they will hold hearings on the &#8220;unconstitutional,&#8221; though judicially-sanctioned execution of the search warrant at the Office of Congressman Jefferson, and he (Volokh) selected what he termed:</p>
<p>&#8220;My Favorite Suggestion for More Congressional Hearings, from an anonymous comment to Orin&#8217;s post below:&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;WARRANTS: Not good enough for us, too good for you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Heh.</p>
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		<title>By: Trochilus</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78468</link>
		<dc:creator>Trochilus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 14:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78468</guid>
		<description>Posh boy,

Your comment --

&quot;Law enforcement departments of the Executive Branch cannot execute search warrants on the Legislative Branch, especially so on property under the jurisdiction of the Legislative Branch. Only a law enforcement department of the Legislative Branch--in this case, the Capitol Police--can do that. The FBI way overstepped its jurisdiction with this; they should have asked the Capitol Police to assist with the investigation.&quot;

This is, I believe, utterly and completely without merit. What is your authority for such a sweeping generalization?

Simply repeating it, as you keep doing, will not make it so either. There may be those who wish that this was true, but it is not. There was a judicial warrant obtained to conduct the search. Perhaps you could be so kind as to direct all of us to any case holding for the proposition as you have stated it? Rest assured, I won&#039;t hold my breath waiting for your reply, which seems to derive from the notable distinction of your having been a former employee of the Legislative branch. You concede you&#039;re not a lawyer.

In the first place, the FBI had an obligation to follow up, having obtained such a clear indication of felonious criminal activity. The constitutional privilege from arrest at the session that house (and senate) members enjoy during attendance, does not shield a member from felonious activity. In fact it states that the privilege does not shield them from &quot;treason, felony and breach of the peace.&quot; Bribery is and always was a felony. And I would add that this allegation of bribery is particularly egregious, as it is specifically and directly related to Jefferson&#039;s constitutional duties as a Congressman. The allegation is that he put his vote up for sale!

If you think for a moment that the federal courts -- going all the way up -- are going to let this Congressman successfully challenge the execution of an otherwise properly executed and judicially sanctioned search warrant, and get away with it because the Capitol police were not asked to assist in the search, I think you are dreaming. That would provide every member and Senator with a guaranteed &quot;safe harbor&quot; defense to try and hide the fruits of crimes they want to commit, so long as it is done within the Halls of Congress.  You think the Courts will uphold this proposition simply because any &quot;investigation&quot; would have to have included participation by a police force which answers to them, and which is sworn to protect them?

On the question of whether bribery is a felony, ask former Congressman Frank Thompson (NJ) if taking a suitcase full of dough -- $50,000.00 as I recall -- was a felony or not!

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Posh boy,</p>
<p>Your comment &#8211;</p>
<p>&#8220;Law enforcement departments of the Executive Branch cannot execute search warrants on the Legislative Branch, especially so on property under the jurisdiction of the Legislative Branch. Only a law enforcement department of the Legislative Branch&#8211;in this case, the Capitol Police&#8211;can do that. The FBI way overstepped its jurisdiction with this; they should have asked the Capitol Police to assist with the investigation.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is, I believe, utterly and completely without merit. What is your authority for such a sweeping generalization?</p>
<p>Simply repeating it, as you keep doing, will not make it so either. There may be those who wish that this was true, but it is not. There was a judicial warrant obtained to conduct the search. Perhaps you could be so kind as to direct all of us to any case holding for the proposition as you have stated it? Rest assured, I won&#8217;t hold my breath waiting for your reply, which seems to derive from the notable distinction of your having been a former employee of the Legislative branch. You concede you&#8217;re not a lawyer.</p>
<p>In the first place, the FBI had an obligation to follow up, having obtained such a clear indication of felonious criminal activity. The constitutional privilege from arrest at the session that house (and senate) members enjoy during attendance, does not shield a member from felonious activity. In fact it states that the privilege does not shield them from &#8220;treason, felony and breach of the peace.&#8221; Bribery is and always was a felony. And I would add that this allegation of bribery is particularly egregious, as it is specifically and directly related to Jefferson&#8217;s constitutional duties as a Congressman. The allegation is that he put his vote up for sale!</p>
<p>If you think for a moment that the federal courts &#8212; going all the way up &#8212; are going to let this Congressman successfully challenge the execution of an otherwise properly executed and judicially sanctioned search warrant, and get away with it because the Capitol police were not asked to assist in the search, I think you are dreaming. That would provide every member and Senator with a guaranteed &#8220;safe harbor&#8221; defense to try and hide the fruits of crimes they want to commit, so long as it is done within the Halls of Congress.  You think the Courts will uphold this proposition simply because any &#8220;investigation&#8221; would have to have included participation by a police force which answers to them, and which is sworn to protect them?</p>
<p>On the question of whether bribery is a felony, ask former Congressman Frank Thompson (NJ) if taking a suitcase full of dough &#8212; $50,000.00 as I recall &#8212; was a felony or not!</p>
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		<title>By: Cosmo</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78467</link>
		<dc:creator>Cosmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 15:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, hell, since it seems OK to turn UN missions into an organized crime concessions and mosques into armories, I suppose it was only a matter of time before we&#039;d see the government offices of a democracy turned into a Mulberry Street &#039;social club.&#039;

Those who get away with this seem to have power or media approval or public apathy or some combination of all three working in their favor.

Wake me when we get to the &#039;might makes right&#039; stage.  At least the rules will be clear.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, hell, since it seems OK to turn UN missions into an organized crime concessions and mosques into armories, I suppose it was only a matter of time before we&#8217;d see the government offices of a democracy turned into a Mulberry Street &#8217;social club.&#8217;</p>
<p>Those who get away with this seem to have power or media approval or public apathy or some combination of all three working in their favor.</p>
<p>Wake me when we get to the &#8216;might makes right&#8217; stage.  At least the rules will be clear.</p>
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		<title>By: Rowane</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78466</link>
		<dc:creator>Rowane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 15:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78466</guid>
		<description>This whole mess smells as bad as the &quot;Diplomatic Immunity&quot; that protects the hoodlums at the UN. Isn&#039;t taking a bribe from FEDERAL investigators a felony?

From the Constitution Article I, Section 6

&quot;The Senators and Representatives shall receive a compensation for their services, to be ascertained by law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all cases,

except treason, felony and breach of the peace,


be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.


The separated part is the key, I&#039;d go so far as to say that, during time of war, bribing a Senator (or being bribed as one) should be considered treason.

Our country is supposed to be &quot;One Law for All&quot; not &quot;this for me and this for thee&quot;

I hope they find more of these scrofflaws and prosecute them ALL, whatever party affiliation.

Duty, Honor, Country
(in THAT order)

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole mess smells as bad as the &#8220;Diplomatic Immunity&#8221; that protects the hoodlums at the UN. Isn&#8217;t taking a bribe from FEDERAL investigators a felony?</p>
<p>From the Constitution Article I, Section 6</p>
<p>&#8220;The Senators and Representatives shall receive a compensation for their services, to be ascertained by law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all cases,</p>
<p>except treason, felony and breach of the peace,</p>
<p>be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.</p>
<p>The separated part is the key, I&#8217;d go so far as to say that, during time of war, bribing a Senator (or being bribed as one) should be considered treason.</p>
<p>Our country is supposed to be &#8220;One Law for All&#8221; not &#8220;this for me and this for thee&#8221;</p>
<p>I hope they find more of these scrofflaws and prosecute them ALL, whatever party affiliation.</p>
<p>Duty, Honor, Country<br />
(in THAT order)</p>
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		<title>By: Posh boy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78465</link>
		<dc:creator>Posh boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 14:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78465</guid>
		<description>The best response to the confusion about Legislative Branch authority, who or what is a &quot;government employee,&quot; etc. I found via the link below.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/05/hastert-successfully-takes-focus-off.html#114848047044265078

&quot;The congressional response has to do with how co-equal branches of government deal with each other. The House has a Sergeant at Arms. The FBI should have gone to THAT office - it&#039;s a certified LEO - and together the FBI and Sergeant at Arms take the office in question apart. Yes, Hastert has a tin ear on this, but he&#039;s not talking about the underlying crime, he&#039;s talking about procedure.

&lt;b&gt;&quot;Legislatures around the country have their own rules and procedures - dating back to the colonial period and beyond - that have force of law. &lt;/b&gt;Yes, it can get arcane. And that was evidently what Jefferson was depending on...

&quot;The Sergeant at Arms maintains the order of the House under the direction of the Speaker and is the keeper of the Mace. As a member of the U.S. Capitol Police Board, the Sergeant at Arms is the chief law enforcement officer for the House and serves as Board Chairman each even year.&quot;

You have to understand that a person working for Congress is NOT a government employee.  Government employees as commonly understood by the public are Executive Branch personnel (IRS agents, Treasury clerks, Cabinet members, etc.).  While working in the House, I was not considered a government employee.  I was a Legislative Branch employee.  Outside the Beltway, D.C. may look all the same, but legally and Constitutionally it isn&#039;t.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best response to the confusion about Legislative Branch authority, who or what is a &#8220;government employee,&#8221; etc. I found via the link below.</p>
<p><a href="http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/05/hastert-successfully-takes-focus-off.html#114848047044265078" rel="nofollow">http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/05/hastert-successfully-takes-focus-off.html#114848047044265078</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The congressional response has to do with how co-equal branches of government deal with each other. The House has a Sergeant at Arms. The FBI should have gone to THAT office &#8211; it&#8217;s a certified LEO &#8211; and together the FBI and Sergeant at Arms take the office in question apart. Yes, Hastert has a tin ear on this, but he&#8217;s not talking about the underlying crime, he&#8217;s talking about procedure.</p>
<p><b>&#8220;Legislatures around the country have their own rules and procedures &#8211; dating back to the colonial period and beyond &#8211; that have force of law. </b>Yes, it can get arcane. And that was evidently what Jefferson was depending on&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;The Sergeant at Arms maintains the order of the House under the direction of the Speaker and is the keeper of the Mace. As a member of the U.S. Capitol Police Board, the Sergeant at Arms is the chief law enforcement officer for the House and serves as Board Chairman each even year.&#8221;</p>
<p>You have to understand that a person working for Congress is NOT a government employee.  Government employees as commonly understood by the public are Executive Branch personnel (IRS agents, Treasury clerks, Cabinet members, etc.).  While working in the House, I was not considered a government employee.  I was a Legislative Branch employee.  Outside the Beltway, D.C. may look all the same, but legally and Constitutionally it isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: tioedong</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78464</link>
		<dc:creator>tioedong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 12:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78464</guid>
		<description>Gingrich&#039;s problem is a tin ear to common morality, not a tin ear to public opinion...on the other hand, as a conservative Democrat, Maybe he does have a tin ear to public opinion...
Gingrich always reminds me of the scene in A Man for All Seasons..where Thomas More tells a young man to be a teacher because he wouldn&#039;t be able to resist the corruption of politics...Gingrich, like that young man, is a great teacher...but his actions show he is corrupt. (e.g. divorcing his first wife when she was dying of cancer, shtupping his secretary while impeaching Clinton)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gingrich&#8217;s problem is a tin ear to common morality, not a tin ear to public opinion&#8230;on the other hand, as a conservative Democrat, Maybe he does have a tin ear to public opinion&#8230;<br />
Gingrich always reminds me of the scene in A Man for All Seasons..where Thomas More tells a young man to be a teacher because he wouldn&#8217;t be able to resist the corruption of politics&#8230;Gingrich, like that young man, is a great teacher&#8230;but his actions show he is corrupt. (e.g. divorcing his first wife when she was dying of cancer, shtupping his secretary while impeaching Clinton)</p>
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		<title>By: Blogengeezer</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78463</link>
		<dc:creator>Blogengeezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 04:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78463</guid>
		<description>I thought that would get a response. I was being a bit antagonistic just to see what others would say. I have read several books lately refering to Iraq before as well as after SH. My opinion is that the next generation of &#039;Congressional representatives&#039; are going to be much superior to the group that we have to put up with now.
The reason being is the hundreds of thousands of excellent troops returning after seeing the difference in our &#039;civilization&#039;, to what has been imposed on the people of Iraq for the last 30 plus years.
These troops are going to enter politics all across the USA for years to come. They are a far different breed than the 60&#039;s crowd we have had to deal with in this generation.
The Universities are  experiencing the same 60&#039;s attitude in their tenured professors, that will change as well. I have great hope for the future of this great nation. Thank you for responding and God Bless you.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought that would get a response. I was being a bit antagonistic just to see what others would say. I have read several books lately refering to Iraq before as well as after SH. My opinion is that the next generation of &#8216;Congressional representatives&#8217; are going to be much superior to the group that we have to put up with now.<br />
The reason being is the hundreds of thousands of excellent troops returning after seeing the difference in our &#8216;civilization&#8217;, to what has been imposed on the people of Iraq for the last 30 plus years.<br />
These troops are going to enter politics all across the USA for years to come. They are a far different breed than the 60&#8217;s crowd we have had to deal with in this generation.<br />
The Universities are  experiencing the same 60&#8217;s attitude in their tenured professors, that will change as well. I have great hope for the future of this great nation. Thank you for responding and God Bless you.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78462</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 03:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78462</guid>
		<description>&quot;We then want to convert other nations systems that basically operate the same way, to our &#039;supposedly&#039; better system. Is there something wrong here or am I just not getting the concept?&quot;



No, Blogengeezer, you&#039;re not. Democracy is not a perfect system.  No one says it is (read your Churchill and E. M. Forster on that). But it is vastly better than the fascist and religio-fascist dictatorships we aim to replace.  Rep. Jefferson may have stolen a bit of money.  Saddam Hussein gassed his own people, cut their tongues out and stole billions of dollars in the process. If you don&#039;t see the difference, I don&#039;t know how to talk  to you.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We then want to convert other nations systems that basically operate the same way, to our &#8217;supposedly&#8217; better system. Is there something wrong here or am I just not getting the concept?&#8221;</p>
<p>No, Blogengeezer, you&#8217;re not. Democracy is not a perfect system.  No one says it is (read your Churchill and E. M. Forster on that). But it is vastly better than the fascist and religio-fascist dictatorships we aim to replace.  Rep. Jefferson may have stolen a bit of money.  Saddam Hussein gassed his own people, cut their tongues out and stole billions of dollars in the process. If you don&#8217;t see the difference, I don&#8217;t know how to talk  to you.</p>
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		<title>By: scrapiron</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78461</link>
		<dc:creator>scrapiron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 03:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78461</guid>
		<description>All i get out of the latest from the dummies in congress is the statement &quot;We are above the law&#039;. Wasn&#039;t there a movie in the past that highlighted this same thing, criminals in government that think they are above the law?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All i get out of the latest from the dummies in congress is the statement &#8220;We are above the law&#8217;. Wasn&#8217;t there a movie in the past that highlighted this same thing, criminals in government that think they are above the law?</p>
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		<title>By: Blogengeezer</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78460</link>
		<dc:creator>Blogengeezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 03:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/05/23/occams-razor-meets-the-separation-of-powers/#comment-78460</guid>
		<description>I want to get this straight. We elect congressional representatives over and over again, who are not &#039;good&#039;. They are therefore permanent fixtures in our political system. We then want to convert other nations systems that basically operate the same way, to our &#039;supposedly&#039; better system. Is there something wrong here or am I just not getting the concept?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to get this straight. We elect congressional representatives over and over again, who are not &#8216;good&#8217;. They are therefore permanent fixtures in our political system. We then want to convert other nations systems that basically operate the same way, to our &#8217;supposedly&#8217; better system. Is there something wrong here or am I just not getting the concept?</p>
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