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	<title>Comments on: Passive heroes &#8211; the mythology of the scoop</title>
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		<title>By: Joachim</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79340</link>
		<dc:creator>Joachim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Roger

Your point about how easy it probably was to do this story is more relavant than can be imagined.  It seems to point an arrogance and laziness on the part of many members of the MSM.

Also, since 9/11 (as someone else noted) the NSA and SWIFT programs (or something similar) would almost certainly be implemented to track down the terrorists.  I have worked for German companies and have talked to my colleagues in Germany occasionally.  NSA is possibly aware of me but because my conversations did not have any useful information, they could careless about me.  I am not concerned about the authorities visiting to discuss these conversations - there is nothing to hide.  I am more concerned that two useful anti-terrorist programs have probably been crippled because of the arrogance of the MSM than a very theoretical impingement of my rights and freedom.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger</p>
<p>Your point about how easy it probably was to do this story is more relavant than can be imagined.  It seems to point an arrogance and laziness on the part of many members of the MSM.</p>
<p>Also, since 9/11 (as someone else noted) the NSA and SWIFT programs (or something similar) would almost certainly be implemented to track down the terrorists.  I have worked for German companies and have talked to my colleagues in Germany occasionally.  NSA is possibly aware of me but because my conversations did not have any useful information, they could careless about me.  I am not concerned about the authorities visiting to discuss these conversations &#8211; there is nothing to hide.  I am more concerned that two useful anti-terrorist programs have probably been crippled because of the arrogance of the MSM than a very theoretical impingement of my rights and freedom.</p>
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		<title>By: Percy Dovetonsils</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79339</link>
		<dc:creator>Percy Dovetonsils</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think what the government needs to do now is run two separate counterintelligence efforts - one against the &quot;bad guys&quot; (al-Queda and the Al-Queda-keteers, the Saudis, the Syrians, the Russians, etc.), and the other against the hostile press (the Times, the Post, etc.).

Give each enough bait to keep them interested and chasing into blind alleys.  Much like the catnip mice we Dovetonsils give to the cats in our house, which they promptly knock under the radiators, causing them to spend countless hours trying to figure out how to get them out.

As long as the press (and our cats) don&#039;t grow opposable thumbs, they should be kept busy for hours, while the real work is getting done.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what the government needs to do now is run two separate counterintelligence efforts &#8211; one against the &#8220;bad guys&#8221; (al-Queda and the Al-Queda-keteers, the Saudis, the Syrians, the Russians, etc.), and the other against the hostile press (the Times, the Post, etc.).</p>
<p>Give each enough bait to keep them interested and chasing into blind alleys.  Much like the catnip mice we Dovetonsils give to the cats in our house, which they promptly knock under the radiators, causing them to spend countless hours trying to figure out how to get them out.</p>
<p>As long as the press (and our cats) don&#8217;t grow opposable thumbs, they should be kept busy for hours, while the real work is getting done.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79338</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 01:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The humorous thing is that the MSM thinks they are the playas, when in reality they are the hos for the bureaucrats who use them to launch their attacks.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The humorous thing is that the MSM thinks they are the playas, when in reality they are the hos for the bureaucrats who use them to launch their attacks.</p>
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		<title>By: LarryD</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79337</link>
		<dc:creator>LarryD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 01:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=5458&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The American Thinker&lt;/a&gt; points to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shinesforall.com/archives/2006/06/waving_the_whit.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt;. To quote the Amirican Thinker:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Now tell me that the Belgian Government did not already know about the SWIFT investigation before media disclosures. Clearly, they were forced into taking this step by the media publicity and consequent pressure from anti-American forces within their nation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This program had &lt;b&gt;already&lt;/b&gt; led to the capture of at least one terrorist leader. Thanks to the NYT, this program is, or very soon will be, dead. No, Bush didn&#039;t overstate anything, if anything he&#039;s still not calling it by its true name. &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;Treason.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;  &quot;&lt;i&gt;or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort&lt;/i&gt;&quot;
Ironically, a NYT editorial, soon after 9/11, called for exactly the kind of program the SWIFT investigation was.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=5458" rel="nofollow">The American Thinker</a> points to <a href="http://www.shinesforall.com/archives/2006/06/waving_the_whit.html" rel="nofollow">this article</a>. To quote the Amirican Thinker:</p>
<blockquote><p>Now tell me that the Belgian Government did not already know about the SWIFT investigation before media disclosures. Clearly, they were forced into taking this step by the media publicity and consequent pressure from anti-American forces within their nation.</p></blockquote>
<p>This program had <b>already</b> led to the capture of at least one terrorist leader. Thanks to the NYT, this program is, or very soon will be, dead. No, Bush didn&#8217;t overstate anything, if anything he&#8217;s still not calling it by its true name. <b><i>Treason.</i></b>  &#8220;<i>or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort</i>&#8221;<br />
Ironically, a NYT editorial, soon after 9/11, called for exactly the kind of program the SWIFT investigation was.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter G.</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79336</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 00:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79336</guid>
		<description>Ah, Scoop.  This book has stood the test of time.  A selection from Scoop by Mr. Waugh:

&quot;Why, once Jake went out to cover a revolution in one of the Balkan capitals. He overslept in his carriage, woke up at the wrong station, didn&#039;t know any different, got out, went straight to a hotel, and cabled off a thousand-word story about barricades in the streets, flaming churches, machine guns ... Well they were pretty surprised at his office, getting a story like that from the wrong country, but they trusted Jakes and splashed it  in six national newspapers. That day every special in Europe got orders to rush to the new revolution. They arrived in shoals. Everything seemed quiet enough, but it was as much as their jobs worth to say so, with Jakes filing a thousand words of blood and thunder a day. So they chimed in too. Government stocks dropped, financial panic, state of emergency declared, army mobilized, famine, mutiny -- and in less than a week there an honest to God revolution under way, just as Jakes had said. There&#039;s the power of the press for you.&quot;

&quot;They gave Jake the Nobel Peace Prize for his harrowing descriptions  of the carnage ...&quot; - Evelyn Waugh, 1938.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, Scoop.  This book has stood the test of time.  A selection from Scoop by Mr. Waugh:</p>
<p>&#8220;Why, once Jake went out to cover a revolution in one of the Balkan capitals. He overslept in his carriage, woke up at the wrong station, didn&#8217;t know any different, got out, went straight to a hotel, and cabled off a thousand-word story about barricades in the streets, flaming churches, machine guns &#8230; Well they were pretty surprised at his office, getting a story like that from the wrong country, but they trusted Jakes and splashed it  in six national newspapers. That day every special in Europe got orders to rush to the new revolution. They arrived in shoals. Everything seemed quiet enough, but it was as much as their jobs worth to say so, with Jakes filing a thousand words of blood and thunder a day. So they chimed in too. Government stocks dropped, financial panic, state of emergency declared, army mobilized, famine, mutiny &#8212; and in less than a week there an honest to God revolution under way, just as Jakes had said. There&#8217;s the power of the press for you.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;They gave Jake the Nobel Peace Prize for his harrowing descriptions  of the carnage &#8230;&#8221; &#8211; Evelyn Waugh, 1938.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Poling</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79335</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Poling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79335</guid>
		<description>dclydew, the program apparently did produce results, so blowing it certainly is, well, a blow.  (And I hope you realize that a lot of potential leads into the terrorist networks &lt;i&gt;aren&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; necessarily the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree -- case in point one famous flight school student who wasn&#039;t interested in learning how to take off or land.)  Of course, now even the most clueless oil-wealthy medievalists know not to do a straight funds transfer to that Madras in Minneapolis.

Be that as it may, the Administration has another reason to flog this; leaks from within our own intelligence community are helping the jihadis.

What I want to know is, when are leakers going to start going to jail?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dclydew, the program apparently did produce results, so blowing it certainly is, well, a blow.  (And I hope you realize that a lot of potential leads into the terrorist networks <i>aren&#8217;t</i> necessarily the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree &#8212; case in point one famous flight school student who wasn&#8217;t interested in learning how to take off or land.)  Of course, now even the most clueless oil-wealthy medievalists know not to do a straight funds transfer to that Madras in Minneapolis.</p>
<p>Be that as it may, the Administration has another reason to flog this; leaks from within our own intelligence community are helping the jihadis.</p>
<p>What I want to know is, when are leakers going to start going to jail?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Fotos</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79334</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Fotos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 20:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Can&#039;t agree with you on this one, Roger. As disgusting as the NYT scoop was, I rather doubt it just came floating across the transom absent a long period of building trust with national security sources who know they&#039;re breaking some serious law here. The one or two really big scoops I got in my old aviation trade-journalism days only came after many many many months of working with sources to the point where they started believing I knew what the hell I was talking about and wouldn&#039;t screw them as sources. I&#039;d be stunned if this were any different with far more at stake at the Times. (or LAT. Or WaPo. Etc.)

That&#039;s legwork even if it doesn&#039;t involve, well, legs.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t agree with you on this one, Roger. As disgusting as the NYT scoop was, I rather doubt it just came floating across the transom absent a long period of building trust with national security sources who know they&#8217;re breaking some serious law here. The one or two really big scoops I got in my old aviation trade-journalism days only came after many many many months of working with sources to the point where they started believing I knew what the hell I was talking about and wouldn&#8217;t screw them as sources. I&#8217;d be stunned if this were any different with far more at stake at the Times. (or LAT. Or WaPo. Etc.)</p>
<p>That&#8217;s legwork even if it doesn&#8217;t involve, well, legs.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79333</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 20:39:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The biggest propagator of the Watergate myth is none other than Bob Woodward.  He persistently downplays any big story as, in his opinion, no story can ever be bigger than Watergate.  This was particularly true when Drudge was coming up with all the scoops on Clinton (lying under oath, stained dress, etc.). Virtually every sentence out of Woodward&#039;s mouth downplayed those incidents during that era.

By the way, much of what Woodward and Bernstein reported was not second sourced.  They did what most reporters will tell you is forbidden by the Golden Rules of reporting.  They don&#039;t want history to remember that either.  They just want you to remember two super reporters just doing their job.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest propagator of the Watergate myth is none other than Bob Woodward.  He persistently downplays any big story as, in his opinion, no story can ever be bigger than Watergate.  This was particularly true when Drudge was coming up with all the scoops on Clinton (lying under oath, stained dress, etc.). Virtually every sentence out of Woodward&#8217;s mouth downplayed those incidents during that era.</p>
<p>By the way, much of what Woodward and Bernstein reported was not second sourced.  They did what most reporters will tell you is forbidden by the Golden Rules of reporting.  They don&#8217;t want history to remember that either.  They just want you to remember two super reporters just doing their job.</p>
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		<title>By: dclydew</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79332</link>
		<dc:creator>dclydew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 20:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kevin,

A very valid point. However, I never said that this was beneficial (except to the NYT&#039;s bottom line) and I certianly never said that their actions were in any way protecting me.

I said only that I felt the administration was spinning this for maximum effect, at the expense of honesty.

However, as I said, you bring up a very valid point.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>A very valid point. However, I never said that this was beneficial (except to the NYT&#8217;s bottom line) and I certianly never said that their actions were in any way protecting me.</p>
<p>I said only that I felt the administration was spinning this for maximum effect, at the expense of honesty.</p>
<p>However, as I said, you bring up a very valid point.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Peters</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79331</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2006 19:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2006/06/27/passive-heroes-the-mythology-of-the-scoop/#comment-79331</guid>
		<description>dclydew:
I imagine the banking institutions that have been exposed in detail by the press are jumping for joy at the prospects of being targets for the terrorists for cooperating with the United States. It is one thing for them to know that they they are being followed in general, it&#039;s quite another thing to know the exact details and the exact institutions that are being used. If one of these Swiss banking institutions or any of their employee&#039;s are kidnapped and beheaded I am sure that they will send their love to Mr. Keller for fingering them. And I am sure that any other institution that is approached to help in the hunt for these thugs will not think a minute about the fact that if given a chance the self appointed mandarins of the press will turn them in and print their names and corporate address in their fishwraps. Do I know for sure that this will happen? No, but you and the NYT don&#039;t know that it won&#039;t. And there is no way for you or the press to know that they have given a terrorist or their financers a heads up and let them escape detection. The negative possibilities of this disclosure far outweigh any potential benifit for the public. How are you better off because of this disclosure? And please don&#039;t give me vague cliches about openess. What specific danger did this program being exposed protect you from?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dclydew:<br />
I imagine the banking institutions that have been exposed in detail by the press are jumping for joy at the prospects of being targets for the terrorists for cooperating with the United States. It is one thing for them to know that they they are being followed in general, it&#8217;s quite another thing to know the exact details and the exact institutions that are being used. If one of these Swiss banking institutions or any of their employee&#8217;s are kidnapped and beheaded I am sure that they will send their love to Mr. Keller for fingering them. And I am sure that any other institution that is approached to help in the hunt for these thugs will not think a minute about the fact that if given a chance the self appointed mandarins of the press will turn them in and print their names and corporate address in their fishwraps. Do I know for sure that this will happen? No, but you and the NYT don&#8217;t know that it won&#8217;t. And there is no way for you or the press to know that they have given a terrorist or their financers a heads up and let them escape detection. The negative possibilities of this disclosure far outweigh any potential benifit for the public. How are you better off because of this disclosure? And please don&#8217;t give me vague cliches about openess. What specific danger did this program being exposed protect you from?</p>
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