111 Comments

1. Vulgorilla:

The sad part about all of this is that its perfectly within character for Kerry to bad-mouth the troops as there’s plenty of historical facts relating to him doing just that. When I first heard about it, I just said to myself “Oh … John Kerry dragging the troops through the mud again … some things never change?” That, as he’s finding out, is why its impossible for him to correct the impression that he mis-spoke.

Nov 1, 2006 - 5:48 pm 2. Outactrl:

Brilliant stuff Roger. That’s the second post I’ve said that about in the past week.

Jim

Nov 1, 2006 - 6:36 pm 3. Steven:

Assuming that he’s telling the truth when he tells us what he meant to say, it would hardly have qualified as a “joke.” I think the right word is “insult.”

Nov 1, 2006 - 6:56 pm 4. Deagle:

Well, I guess Kerry’s jokes regarding the military have finally come back to haunt him (alas, Vietnam, of course). I guess if he continues to make denigrating statements about the military, finally one may stick! If not this one, wait another month or so… I know what he is (bastard)!

Nov 1, 2006 - 7:13 pm 5. Posse Incitatus:

This has inspired me to go on yet another journey into the twisted byways of John Kerry’s brain.

It isn’t pretty.

Nov 1, 2006 - 7:43 pm 6. Captain Hate:

Tonight David Letterman is having the top ten Kerry excuses. Since Lurch’s titanic, yet fragile, ego can’t abide being the subject of ridicule, this should be the equivalent of passing ten very large kidney stones.

Nov 1, 2006 - 8:19 pm 7. Barrett:

Roger,

You are right! I can also see these folks sitting around trying to figure out how “fix” the problem and spewing out one silly idea after another. The botched joke is the best thing they could come up with. How transparent!

Carville’s comment is hysterical! He is so separated from reality, so lacking in moral fiber and so relativistic that he can say anything, including a bald faced lie and believe it is true.

The sad part is some people believe it.

Nov 1, 2006 - 8:48 pm 8. chuck:

The sad part is some people believe it.

But Carville is certainly not among them.

Nov 1, 2006 - 9:10 pm 9. RandMan:

From a comment posted on another blog:

I told my friends I was going to be a comedian. Everyone laughed.

They’re not laughing now.

Nov 1, 2006 - 9:31 pm 10. Buddy Larsen:

I also don’t think he believes himself. But since his act generates a paycheck, there must somewhere be some folks who believe that he believes himself–though I believe that that is itself pretty hard to believe.

Anyhoo, the Groucho reference is genius, since he like Senator Foghorn Leghorn Kerry is a great shatterer of language, like cubism is to painted pictures of objects. Of course, with Groucho, or Picasso, you get a big lift, or at least a lesson, as an intentional effect.

Come to think of it it, I guess even that applies to the Senator, as with him you get to see a near-perfect antithesis of the art of politics. In fact, the Kerry Event–meaning his career–is everything it shouldn’t be, and wouldn’t be if the psychological health of the body politic wasn’t reeling from God knows what ailment.

Nov 1, 2006 - 9:42 pm 11. Buddy Larsen:

Re the senator’s tortured explanations, and the Marx Brothers, here’s a snip where Chicolini is supposed to be spying on Firefly, but change the names and put it in the campaign arena, and it could be Kerry on Bush:

All right, I tell you. Monday we watch Firefly’s house, but he no come out. He wasn’t home. Tuesday we go to the ball game, but he fool us. He no show up. Wednesday he go to the ball game, and we fool him. We no show up. Thursday was a double header. Nobody show up. Friday it rained all day. There was no ball game so we stayed home and we listened to it over the radio.

Nov 1, 2006 - 10:30 pm 12. zefal:

Mr. Simon,

On Thursday nights on TCM they run an episode of the Dick Cavett Show and they ran his interview with Groucho 3 weeks ago. That’s what he said about Margaret Dumont.

Groucho interview

This Thursday it’s Ingmar Bergman.

Nov 1, 2006 - 10:36 pm 13. Wolverine:

Come on guys. I’m not trying to pick a fight, but why not devote some time to what’s REALLY going on in Iraq?

I take it all of you agree with Bush that Rummy and Cheney are doing a bang up job in Iraq? If that doesn’t underscore how detached the Republicans are from reality, we’re f—ed.

How many of you are willing to risk your lives or those of your loved ones for whatever Bush is trying to accomplish in Iraq?

That’s what I thought….

Back to you regularly scheduled program.

PS- Tax cuts during war time?

Nov 1, 2006 - 11:59 pm 14. Deagle:

Wolverine,

You are the typical Democrat that always want to change the subject. Yes, Iraq is important and has been discussed many times…

Just what the heck are you afraid of to discuss Kerry’s remarks? Maybe it might change minds regarding security? What?

As far as Iraq, more than you might imagine would be willing to fight for Democracy there… You are presuming too much.

Now lets discuss the traitorous actions of Kerry from the 60’s on…heh. That lousy bastard would have sold us out to the communists if he had a chance (trip to discuss surrender in Paris with the communists). Yea, I really adore that SOB!

Nov 2, 2006 - 12:24 am 15. Wolverine:

Deagle,

Since I’m a typical Democrat, do you mind taking a stab at describing who I am?

Now, I find it funny that a Bush supporter would bring up verbal blunders….I can document all the stupid things out of his mouth till kingdom come.

“As far as Iraq, more than you might imagine would be willing to fight for Democracy there… You are presuming too much.”

Hey, let me know when you want to go and I’ll make the arrangements.

“Now lets discuss the traitorous actions of Kerry from the 60’s on…heh.”

That was 40 years ago. Time to grow up, old man.

Nov 2, 2006 - 12:34 am 16. David Thomson:

“Carville’s comment is hysterical! He is so separated from reality, so lacking in moral fiber and so relativistic that he can say anything, including a bald faced lie and believe it is true.

The sad part is some people believe it.”

James Carville’s “It’s the economy, Stupid!” campaign strategy that also helped elect Bill Clinton was a con job. The economy was actually doing fairly well. Nonetheless, the MSM cooperated with Carville and destroyed Geore Bush 41’s chance for reelection.

Nov 2, 2006 - 4:05 am 17. Rhod:

…and that’s why John Kerry has such high shoulders and a flat forehead.

Nov 2, 2006 - 5:48 am 18. Bostonian:

Wolverine,
Cutting tax rates lets the economy grow, which means that the government gets larger tax receipts.

That’s exactly what has happened, too.

Repeat after me, RECORD TAX RECEIPTS.

Some links:

http://www.house.gov/ryan/press_releases/2004pressreleases/9704_cbo.html

http://www.webcpa.com/article.cfm?articleid=21940&pg=ros

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1693.html

***
But leftists like you would prefer the government to take a larger portion of a smaller pie.

Nov 2, 2006 - 6:01 am 19. Steven Mitchell:

“Since I’m a typical Democrat, do you mind taking a stab at describing who I am?”

Deagle should have qualified that as, “typical online Democrat”. They are the type of people that come onto a blog and make their first post a series of talking points unrelated to the topic. Curiously, this exact same talking points show up all over the internet at the same time. The short term for this behavior is “memebot”.

Apparently memebots operate under the mistaken impression that the people here don’t read anything else and thus will not notice. If called on this behavior, it’s all good as far as the memebot is concerned, since he can think make the discussion about him. His orignal purpose was to change the subject to anything but the topic at hand.

I suggest that if Wolverine wants additional answer about that, he can start his own blog.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:15 am 20. Steven Mitchell:

I don’t know where that stray “think” came from in a post about memebots. Please mentally edit out.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:16 am 21. markus:

Does anyone actually, truly believe Kerry INTENDED to disparage the troops, make fun of their intelligence?

Why would a potential 2008 presidential candidate, trying to collect political chips by campaigning for Dems in toss-up districts, find it in his interest to directly claim that enlistees lack intelligence?

Kerry botched a stupid joke written by a ham-fisted speechwriter who never should have been hired. It was intended as a put-down of Bush, similar to hundreds of others jokes that have been made at the President’s expense. And, by the way, it was an inaccurate joke — “stupidity” is NOT an accurate description of Bush’s mental affliction.

And then he compounded his problems on Imus by calling in and being, well, John Kerry.

To think otherwise, to think John Kerry gets his jollies and thinks he can advance his own political goals by insulting troops in swing districts one week before the elections, is to indeed be “separated from reality.”

To know the truth, but to imply the opposite in order to salvage a desparate political situation, which is what EVERY Republican trying to make hay of this is doing, is to be “separated from integrity.”

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:28 am 22. Buddy Larsen:

The slander continues apace: Seymour Hirsch, in a speech in Montreal last Wednesday, called “this American army” the “most violent and murderous in history”. This just reported by Fox, as part of a bit on Sen. Kerry.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:33 am 23. Roger:

No, Markus, I don’t hink KErry INTENDED to insult the troops. But I do think he is a truly disconnected human being and deeply stuck in time. It is the kind of slip made by such a clueless person – somehow buried in his brain like Country Joe lyrics was the idea that the draft was still active and we were living out Vietnam all over again. Of course the reverse is now true – we have a volunteer army which is a high tech road to an advanced education, particularly for those less economically advantaged than KErry. He is the original noblesse oblige politician.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:38 am 24. Buddy Larsen:

By golly, markus, you’re right! What people say or do doesn’t matter at all–the only important thing is what they might’ve maybe intended to’ve meant to’ve said or done.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:40 am 25. Bruce Wechsler:

As I see it, there’s really only two possible explanations:

If it was an attempt at humor, the joke (if you wish to call it that) was just another version of “Bush is an idiot”. Unbecoming of a former presidential candidate, at the very least. A meager infantile jab. Amateurish for a politician or a comedian. (But that it backfired so completely is indeed hilarious.)

The other possibility, which addresses Markus’ and O’Reilly’s doubts, is that he meant what he said, he just didn’t mean to say it. Remniscent of the old candid camera slogan: Kerry was caught in the act of being himself. That, too, is hilarious.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:46 am 26. Bruce Wechsler:

Markus wrote:

“To know the truth, but to imply the opposite in order to salvage a desparate political situation, ….”

Invoking Mr. Rather are we? Nice.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:53 am 27. Mark Poling:

Wolverine, purely on the basis of how Kos-ish your comments are, I’d say you’re around 40 years old, white, pull down between 60-100K (depending on which greater metropolitan area you call home) working in computer technology (although I doubt you’re a programmer — more likely in marketing, documentation, or customer service). You’re probably just now starting to ponder the question of what to do about reproducing your genes. You did not serve in the military, you did attend a decent college, you don’t attend church, you do donate annually to one or maybe two humanitarian NGOs. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess you don’t have a graduate degree, but I could be mistaken. You probably drive an SUV, but you tried really hard to get one of the ones that aren’t horrendously fuel inefficient. (This assumes you’re married, which is roughly a 50/50 proposition, but I’ll go with it. If not, you drive a late model Japanese midsize sedan, something like an Acura TSX). You think you personally don’t know any women who’ve had abortions, but you really do. You prefer Starbucks to Duncan Donuts, Target to Wal*Mart.

Your idea of being hip and subversive is to call yourself “Wolverine” when you troll Rethuglican websites.

Actually, the only item I’m sure of is that last one, but I bet I’m close on a lot of the rest of it.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:55 am 28. Steven Mitchell:

Markus, I agree with Bruce. I don’t think Kerry intended to make a doofus of himself–more than he already is, that is. I don’t recall the same courtesy being extended to any Republicans in the last 25 years or so.

I think Kerry did repeat what runs through his mind from time to time, and no doubt gets said all the time at the kind of private parties he attends.

“To know the truth, but to imply the opposite in order to salvage a desparate political situation, which is what EVERY Republican trying to make hay of this is doing, is to be “separated from integrity.”

It is to laugh. In that statement, you do what you accuse us of doing. Every Republican? Liar. Because I know you know it isn’t the truth.

I tell you what, though, when the MSM shows some miniscule progress in stopping the behavior you describe on behalf of Democrats, I promise to not make hay of a political opponent sticking both legs into his mouth up to knees. I wouldn’t hold your breathe, though.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:55 am 29. Mark Poling:

Of course Kerry didn’t intend to insult the troops. (He may not be the brightest bulb, but his IQ really isn’t more that two standard deviations below that of a marmoset). Bigotry is never intentional. It just is, and the bigot will take great offense at being called on it, because, well, what he’s saying is true. (Having core assumptions questioned is highly disturbing; those interested by Kerry’s initial outrage should read up on Fessinger’s Cognitive Dissonance theory.)

Nov 2, 2006 - 8:12 am 30. Wolverine:

Mark Polling- you have a very vivid immagination! But guess what? Most of what you wrote is wrong. I’m about half the age you suggest and I’m decidely NOT WHITE (unlike you). I’m applying to grad school (mba- gasp!) and I graduated with degress in economics and political science from a top public university.

I actually prefer donuts to starbucks. There are no Wal-Marts where I live, but I am not opposed to shopping at them.

My idea of being hip is not to openly declare what I think of that….unlike you.

Can I take a stab at you?

You’re about 50, an empty nest maybe, looking for some meaning in life as your time here on Earth winds down. You find it in sending my generation to die in a war that hasn’t really accomplished anything. Am I right?

Nov 2, 2006 - 8:14 am 31. Always right:

A sincere thank you to Mr. Kerry.

The lone Kerry/Edward 04 sticker on the car (in my company parking lot) is finally “removed”.

Nov 2, 2006 - 8:28 am 32. Buddy Larsen:

Mark Poling–Aww, man–sorry your life is such a wreck, and that you’re such a foul human being. Is there anything I can do to help?

Nov 2, 2006 - 8:30 am 33. Captain Hate:

markus,

What part of “Bon voyage, and good riddance” do you understand; it wasn’t even a week. Not that Alec Baldwin and his ilk feel compelled to keep their words.

Wolverine,

You attended Michigan, no?

Nov 2, 2006 - 8:32 am 34. Always right:

Thank you, Mr. Kerry.

The lone Kerry/Edward 04 car sticker (in my company parking lot) was finally removed.

Unfortunately it was covered up by another even more stupider (is that a real word?) sticker: “Knowledge is Power” and something about “They try to control us by keeping us ignorant” or words to that effect. /Sigh!

Nov 2, 2006 - 8:34 am 35. Wolverine:

Yes

Nov 2, 2006 - 8:35 am 36. Buddy Larsen:

Well, I wish you good luck in your endeavors, Wolverine. It’s a great time of life, I remember it well. Do try to escape from the Ann Arbor political zeitgeist, though–it will help you become part of the solution.

Nov 2, 2006 - 8:52 am 37. markus:

So – given the initial responses to my question – it indeed does appear that, aside from the Bruce Wenschler’s intimation of a possible Freudian slip, no one disagrees with me that it was anything more than a stupid joke at Bush’s expense, compounded by the call into Imus in which His Pomposity saw fit to remind everyone about what they find infuriating, mystifying, or pathetic about him.

Steven, making hay of John Kerry for being an inept politician with a habit of “sticking both legs into his mouth up to knees” is perfectly legitimate, and something that, believe me, a lot of Democrats have been doing over the past 48 hours. Suggesting that he was disparaging the troops is not.

Nov 2, 2006 - 9:00 am 38. markus:

Captain — I said good riddance while drunk and in a pique. In truth, I just don’t know how to quit you guys.

Nov 2, 2006 - 9:06 am 39. Buddy Larsen:

Right, markus. He didn’t disparage the troops. He merely said that they were people who got stuck in Iraq because they failed to learn enough. That’s no insult at all.

I remember during the 04 campaign he said much the same thing to the prison population, that their being in prison was not their fault.

It’s always the same, the little people are so infantile.

They need guidance from their betters, a controlling legal authority, a global test, or, as with the new media, some sort of final autority on what can or can’t be said.

Nov 2, 2006 - 9:13 am 40. Captain Hate:

markus,

“So – given the initial responses to my question -it indeed does appear that, aside from the Bruce Wenschler’s intimation of a possible Freudian slip, no one disagrees with me that it was anything more than a stupid joke at Bush’s expense…”

Appearances can be deceiving. In my case it doesn’t do any good to make a hypothesis of anything Lurch means because he will subsequently say the opposite and then malign anybody that didn’t understand his highly “nuanced” statement.

And yes, this place has a certain appeal.

Nov 2, 2006 - 9:17 am 41. ricpic:

What apology?!

Telling someone you’ve just insulted that they’ve misunderstood you doesn’t rank in my book as an apology. In fact, it compounds the insult.

Nov 2, 2006 - 9:25 am 42. chuck:

“…no one disagrees with me that it was anything more than a stupid joke at Bush’s expense…”

It has turned out to be a great joke at Kerry’s expense. He will be blamed if the Dems don’t pick up a majority in either house. Already opinion is turning on forums like DU as another generation discovers why he is unfit for command. And all for a cheap joke.

Nov 2, 2006 - 9:33 am 43. Buddy Larsen:

Along that line, we can thank the senator also for a refresher on why you simply cannot trust the NYT.

Nov 2, 2006 - 9:41 am 44. Larry J:

Does anyone actually, truly believe Kerry INTENDED to disparage the troops, make fun of their intelligence?

Given Kerry’s slanderous “Winter Solder” testimony in 1972, I don’t have a hard time believing that Kerry said exactly what he believes about the military. He may not have meant to say it out loud but it’s what he actually said that counts, not what he meant to say. His statement was ignorant, incorrect, and highly offensive to millions of us who have served in the military. His half-assed “apology” is that his words were “misintrepreted”, not that his words were hateful and wrong. He is a contemptable excuse for a human being. I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on him if his hair were on fire (although I might be tempted to break out some marshmellows).

Kerry gives the impression of believing himself the smartest man in any room, although he has done nothing to demonstrate intelligence. He makes fun of President Bush but the fact is that he is less educated and got lower grades at Yale. In short, he’s a pompus ass whose biggest skill is marrying wealthy women.

Nov 2, 2006 - 9:45 am 45. markus:

Buddy — “He merely said that they were people who got stuck in Iraq because they failed to learn enough.”

Buddy, you know that this is not true. No more truthful than claiming that Reagan seriously believed that “facts are stupid things.” Kerry has said he misspoke, and he has backed up this assertion by showing reporters the text of the actual speech he was reading from that day. The text of which shows that the line was a cheap, unbecoming joke at Bush’s expense. And he has finally apologized to any of the people who felt insulted by him, as a result of deliberate misinformation put forth by people like you.

Nov 2, 2006 - 9:50 am 46. Mark Poling:

42, white, nest (god willing) being filled. Meaning and purpose in my life isn’t hard to find.

I’m not really sure why you think I should be stung about having strong opionions against elitist poseurs and bigots, but okay. If I didn’t have strong opinions, I wouldn’t feel the urge to post. Maybe I’m just not getting your point.

(Interestingly, I was called a “cracker” by some obviously not-very-well but also not-totally-insane guy while walking to the subway this morning. The phenomenon of bigotry is an annoying theme in my life today…)

Getting back to your commentary about chicken-hawks in general and my own motivations in particular, it’s precisely because I am worried about the future that I have supported the war. You’re not here to be persuaded, I think, so I’ll skip the rationales, but I will assert that there are logical arguments that can lead a person to believe radical change in the mideast is necessary, and that radical change in Iraq was (and/or is) the best place to start.

Most of us also believe that the radical change should be more ethical than simply carpet bombing Iraq’s major urban centers. Hence, American “kids” your age are sent into danger, and no small number of them die.

If you think any of us who support the war as it has been fought get a kick out of that thought, you’re a sick puppy. (As a side note, many of us are appalled by “events” staged by the “pro-troops/anti-war” crowd that involve using killed or wounded soldiers as props. There’s a basic inhumanity to those stunts that is truly disturbing.)

For what it’s worth, (and I apolgize to the host for the bandwidth I’m using), if there is one thing I could do over again, it would be to do at least one tour in the Army before going off to college. Of the people I know, those with military backgrounds have an edge that’s hard to define but easy to see. I think the experience would have been good for me. Unfortunately, I bought into the “Eternal Vietnam” propoganda being peddled to my generation. My redneck cracker family had no special tradition of military service and simply wanted a life for me outside of the steel milll. Therefore, at the time I never even cosidered a stint in the military. I met, married, and put through grad school a very sharp lady (Ph.D., Neuroscience) immediately after college, so signing up later was never a realistic option.

Maybe I should have joined after 9/11. I have reason to believe I wouldn’t have passed the physical at that point, though….

Good luck on grad school. And though I doubt you’ll take this advice as being in good faith, consider doing a tour in some branch of the services before getting the MBA. From my observations, people come out better for it. It’s dangerous, but not a lot more dangerous than many “extreme” hobbies. According to the Washington Post, the mortality rate for soldiers serving in Iraq is 3.92 deaths / person-years. In comparison, the mortality rate for motorcyclists in the United States was 1.9 in 2003. So roughly speaking, a tour in Iraq is about twice as dangerous as being an Amerrican motorcyclist. (For an even more intersting comparison, a U.S. soldier in Iraq is statistically less likely to die than someone just hanging around in Bahrain (mortality rate= 4.14).

Think about it.

Nov 2, 2006 - 10:15 am 47. Buddy Larsen:

markus, yes, we all know that the explanation process by now includes the ex post facto release of a document billed as “the prepared remarks text” and that it contains the joke about GWB.

As far as “people like (me) putting out misinformation”, only the senator has put out any information:

You know, education ó if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you donít, you get stuck in Iraq.

Everything followed–in sequence–from that, from “what he said”.

Who knows–besides the man himself–what he intended. We can only derive meaning from “what he said”.

His problems are “what he said” and how he has since reacted to the public reaction to “what he said”.

That’s all. It’s pretty simple.

Nov 2, 2006 - 10:31 am 48. stu:

You know Hillary must be smiling. One less opponent for the nomination. Unfortunately she doesn’t provide the amusement offered by the junior senator from Mass.

Nov 2, 2006 - 10:52 am 49. Buddy Larsen:

BTW, IIRC, the RR quote is “facts are stubborn things”, and I think he was quoting somebody else.

To claim that RR would say something so oblivious as “facts are stupid things” is to (*cough*) misinform, and to remind us that despite the best efforts of people like you, “facts” can’t be “stupid” (though they are in fact forever “stubborn”).

If facts can be stupid, then history can be stupid. Which means that history can also be smart, or nice, or pouty, or blue, or wet, or dry, or fat, or young, or wooden, or gaseous, or metallic, or huge, three-horned and speckled.

Nov 2, 2006 - 10:58 am 50. mrbones:

Reagan may have said “Facts are stubborn things,” but so did a lot of other people.

Only Tobias Smollett (1721-1771), however, coined the phrase.

You’re welcome!

PS: Ralph Peters wants out of Iraq. How do you guys explain that?

Nov 2, 2006 - 11:09 am 51. markus:

Buddy — yes, I know what words actually came out of his mouth. Reminded me of when Jimmy Carter saluted Vice President Hubert Horatio Hornblower for his lifetime of service to America.

I predict that this dog hunts for about six more hours. Then, back to the real debate: who should be held accountable for the fiasco in Iraq, and how can we protect our national security while minimizing the number of Americans killed or maimed as the fiasco plays itself out…

Nov 2, 2006 - 11:19 am 52. markus:

Buddy — google “facts are stupid things”. Reagan actually said that accidently.

Nov 2, 2006 - 11:30 am 53. Buddy Larsen:

Shit–EVERYBODY wants out of Iraq. And world peace, too.

Nov 2, 2006 - 11:31 am 54. Steven Mitchell:

“, back to the real debate: who should be held accountable for the fiasco in Iraq, and how can we protect our national security while minimizing the number of Americans killed or maimed as the fiasco plays itself out…”

As long as you persist in “fiasco”, there can be no debate–only name calling. If there is a fiasco, it’s because people like you gave terrorists hope. As to how to fix that, I believe I’ve made constructive suggestions about that before…

Mr. Bones. Ralph Peters is convinced that people like you make doing the right thing politically impossible. I’m not there, but I can respect his appraisement of your character.

Nov 2, 2006 - 12:07 pm 55. PeterAtLarge:

It’s nice to see a bit of bipartisan bantering on this blog. At the Bush Diaries, we’ve actually been looking for conservatives to talk to.

I would just add that, for Conservatives, it might not be wise to pounce on Kerry for “mis-speaking,” considering the propensity to gaffe of the current president.

Nov 2, 2006 - 12:09 pm 56. Ray:

I agree with ricpic. No apology was received. His “apology” merely reinforces his belief that most people are incapable of interpreting his remarks correctly.

Here is a man with a “less than honorable” discharge, a condescension for our troops, regularly insults our commander in chief, lies about being in Cambodia, conspires with the enemy (the North Vietnamese in Paris), writes up his own recommendation for medals (a purple heart for a scratch), leaves his buddies in the water to escape danger – - – I could go on.

SENATOR KERRY. IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO SIGN THE STANDARD FORM 180 AND DISCLOSE ALL YOUR MILITARY RECORDS.

OR RESIGN FROM THE SENATE. YOU ARE AN EMBARASSMENT TO THE UNITED STATES.

Nov 2, 2006 - 12:24 pm 57. Steven Mitchell:

PeterAtLarge,

The effect of your first paragraph is nullified by your second.

Nov 2, 2006 - 12:29 pm 58. Buddy Larsen:

PaL, it has zero, zip, nada, to do with “mis-speaking”. “Mis-speaking” would warrant no outcry.

What upsets people is this: The attitude, the outlook, that the senator highlighted is an old foe of much of the country, and the senator simply focused the fear.

What is the fear? Simply put, the 70s were not good for the country–or the world–and the politics that gave us “the 70s” is embodied in the left wing of your party.

Nov 2, 2006 - 12:32 pm 59. Mark Poling:

“Shit–EVERYBODY wants out of Iraq. And world peace, too.”

And a boat. And a pony.

Nov 2, 2006 - 12:33 pm 60. Luther McLeod:

PeteratLarge

If you stick around here a while you may find that there are not that many “conservatives”, strictly termed, around here.

I really shouldn’t speak for everyone, but what the hell. Most folks here are disaffected Dem’s/Indies who grew tired of the lack of seriousness shown by the Dem’s re national security, a strong military and general lack of interest in maintaining America’s long term interests around the world and in this country.

And, as well, it is not really bi-partisan bantering. It is not usually a person’s politics that gets bantered about here, but the specifics of their views.

Ray’s last sums up my feelings re Kerry. He’s a sorry bastard.

Nov 2, 2006 - 12:40 pm 61. Fausta:

Oh, yes, James Carville, I remember him well.

Nov 2, 2006 - 1:01 pm 62. Buddy Larsen:

…nasty as Carville is, he’s better than than the Giant Smirking Forehead.

Nov 2, 2006 - 1:11 pm 63. chuck:

I would just add that, for Conservatives, it might not be wise to pounce on Kerry for “mis-speaking,” considering the propensity to gaffe of the current president.

Given your disparagement of the President in a thread devoted to Kerry, I don’t think we need take your admonition seriously. So, to celebrate the elevated level of argument you have introduce, let me just state for the record that Kerry is a poopy-head.

Nov 2, 2006 - 1:32 pm 64. Wolverine:

“Most of us also believe that the radical change should be more ethical than simply carpet bombing Iraq’s major urban centers. Hence, American “kids” your age are sent into danger, and no small number of them die.”

That’s a false dichotomy. I simply can’t fathom how you position “change” to be a choice between carpet bombs vs. urban warfare.

It’s certainly debatable whether removing SH represented any sort of change at all. Given Collin Powell’s statements regarding GWI and my own (limited) reading on the subject, it seems any meanginful change in the region must come from within. Imposing it, as the Americans have done(allow me the use of the 3rd person here), no matter how pure their intentions, seems counterproductive.

Nov 2, 2006 - 1:32 pm 65. Terrye:

Kerry shoots off his mouth and says something stupid and the reality based community want to get back to talking about Iraq. You betcha.

Who got us into Iraq? Bill Clinton. oh, but I forget he had a D behind his name so that whole Iraqi Liberation Act stuff does not count. Neither does all the intel the Clinton administration handed to Bush or the food for oil scam or the botched inspections etc. That was all Clinton. And then after 9/11 when the UN passed a force resolution [1441] the UN Security Council got into the act…again.

And then of course there was Saddam himself. He did all he could do to buy good press from journos like Eason Jordan but he was still called the Butcher of Baghdad. He could have ended all this long before George Bush left Texas, but he thought he could count on the UN and the world to let him off the hook. Cease fire? We don’t care about no stinkin cease fire agreement the man says. Screw the US, what they gonna do? And here the left is doing their best to help prove the enemy is right. What kind of world will it be if they succeed?

It is amazing how self serving, inconsistent and dishonest the socalled antiwar folks have been about this conflict. And their fondest hope? That Democracy will fail in Iraq, that the US and the soldiers that Kerry obviously despises will be forced to retreat in shame. Because they can use that failure to further their own political ambitions. Screw everything else.

Kerry said what he believed. I am 55 years old, I remember Kerry throwing those medals over the fence and I remember his testimony slandering soldiers while men were still dying in that war.

So when I heard I his remarks I never doubted that he was doing what he had done before: slandering the military because he is a prick.

Nov 2, 2006 - 1:34 pm 66. Terrye:

Wolverine:

Just a little background. I was a Democrat for longer than you have been on this earth. I was not only a Democrat, I was a liberal Demcorat and I believed all the crap liberals are supposed to believe.

So spare me the lectures.

Now let’s get back to talking about Kerry.

Have you ever seen some of the stuff Kerry said about Saddam back when wanting to remove that nice dictator from power was cool? Makes Bush look like a flower child.

Nov 2, 2006 - 1:40 pm 67. Larry J:

I would just add that, for Conservatives, it might not be wise to pounce on Kerry for “mis-speaking,” considering the propensity to gaffe of the current president.

If Kerry didn’t have a decades long history of denouncing the military, it’d be easier to believe that he just “misspoke.” Given his history of “Winter Soldier” lies and other statements, I believe he said what he actually thinks. It doesn’t matter in the least to me that maybe, just maybe, Kerry didn’t mean to actually say those words in that particular setting. If he didn’t have his track record, I’d be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I judge him on what he said and his history, not on what he claims he meant to say. His words were stupid, wrong, and hateful, just as his “Winter Soldier” testimony was 35 years ago. For a man with his poor educational track record, he’s the last one who should go around calling others stupid.

Nov 2, 2006 - 1:48 pm 68. Terrye:

Vote Democrat say the terrorists:

Muhammad Saadi, a senior leader of Islamic Jihad in the northern West Bank town of Jenin, said the Democrats’ talk of withdrawal from Iraq makes him feel “proud.”

“As Arabs and Muslims we feel proud of this talk,” he told WND. “Very proud from the great successes of the Iraqi resistance. This success that brought the big superpower of the world to discuss a possible withdrawal.”

Abu Abdullah, a leader of Hamas’ military wing in the Gaza Strip, said the policy of withdrawal “proves the strategy of the resistance is the right strategy against the occupation.”

“We warned the Americans that this will be their end in Iraq,” said Abu Abdullah, considered one of the most important operational members of Hamas’ Izzedine al-Qassam Martyrs Brigades, Hamas’ declared “resistance” department. “They did not succeed in stealing Iraq’s oil, at least not at a level that covers their huge expenses. They did not bring stability. Their agents in the [Iraqi] regime seem to have no chance to survive if the Americans withdraw.”

H/T Confederate yankee

I bet folks like Kerry feel so proud when they read something like this.

Nov 2, 2006 - 2:08 pm 69. mrbones:

“Who got us into Iraq? Bill Clinton.”

Man, I’d like some of whatever Terrye’s smoking!

I’m sure you guys will find some way to rationalize a nutty assertion like that, but, sheesh, don’t you ever getting tired of lying?

The truth shall set you free, fellas.

Nov 2, 2006 - 2:09 pm 70. Buddy Larsen:

Mr. bones, she obviously refers to the administration under which Saddam and the other terror organizations were able to–under the cover of benign neglect and the theory of ’soft power’–grow in power, and escalate their barging entry into the American homeland.

Nov 2, 2006 - 2:57 pm 71. mrbones:

Perhaps she does, Buddy. However, considering this is a thread about how words should be used with precision — and on this point I agree — it would behoove Terrye to say what she actually means. Since Clinton did not actually send 140,000+ troops into Iraq, Terrye ought not say that he did.

Nov 2, 2006 - 3:10 pm 72. Buddy Larsen:

But I’ll admit that blaming Clinton is to let a lethally dedicated, coldly ambitious global enemy hide. Instead, blame the Islamic extremists. Yes, Clinton was on vacation–but so was his country. Of course, a better leader would’ve awakened us–but maybe Clinton knew what would be in store from half of his own countrymen, for any president who dared to fight back.

Nov 2, 2006 - 3:25 pm 73. Godzilla:

Given Collin Powell’s statements regarding GWI and my own (limited) reading on the subject, it seems any meanginful change in the region must come from within.

Wolverine, at twenty years old you are right smack dab in the killing zone, and if the Islamic revolution is not squashed somehow, someway, now, and prevented from spreading throughout the entire middle east, who do you think is going to be around a decade or two from now to pick up the tab? There’s no other world to escape to, Wolverine. We have this one and nothing else. I have three boys, the youngest of which is your age. You show some promise, but you better start paying a little more attention to what is happening in the ME, and don’t only rely on the MSM to get your info.

Right now the Republican plan is the ONLY plan in town. Dispute this? Then tell me what the Democratic caucus wants to do to win the war, other than specify a timetable to get out of Iraq?

Nov 2, 2006 - 3:31 pm 74. Buddy Larsen:

That’s right, wolverine. The piper wants payment and he ain’t going away. We over here fooled around and got free and prosperous, and now we either defend it or give it up. If you want to defend it, then the only choice the enemy is allowing you is to do so now, or do so later. Only history offers any decision-making clue–later will likely be bloodier all the way around.

Nov 2, 2006 - 3:45 pm 75. ricpic:

“…Kerry is a poopy head.”
–chuck

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a WINNER!

Nov 2, 2006 - 3:54 pm 76. Wolverine:

Bush had some revealing comments on Rush Limbaugh on how oil reserves is what’s at stake in the ME.

Now, I fail to see how a region that makes compartively pennies on the dollar, a region dependent upon natural resource extraction for capital will impact a diverse economy in the West and Asia. Indeed, I feel the hype over ME to be signifcantly overblown.

Will higher oil prices negatively impact the economy? Sure. Will it send us into the dark ages? No.

I’d love to see the ME develop into an advanced economy, but our military presence is obviously not helping this along.

Finally, I’d like to point out that at one point the Chinese were our enemies. Look at what has happened now…without a single shot fired.

I am, of course, not defending the Chinese government, who I find unpalatable.

Nov 2, 2006 - 4:17 pm 77. Wolverine:

“…who do you think is going to be around a decade or two from now to pick up the tab?”

This is a sore subject for me because your generation fucked up our nation’s finances so completely that I might see double digit ir, inflation and a plummeting dollar as foreign reserves hedge against this and move their money into diferent currencies.

Thanks.

Nov 2, 2006 - 4:21 pm 78. Buddy Larsen:

ht James Taranto (scroll to “Births of a Nation”, near bottom), who quotes the Washington Times:

“In the face of relentless violence, political chaos, economic uncertainty and nightly curfews, Iraq’s maternity wards are experiencing an unlikely baby boom,” the Washington Times reports from Baghdad:

Despite the obstacles, the birthrate in Iraq actually has increased since the U.S.-led invasion 43 months ago, according to the country’s Health Ministry. The rate of births in the country has jumped from 29 births per 1,000 people in 2003 to 37 per 1,000 last year, according to government figures.

In neighboring Iran, the birthrate is half that–21 per 1,000 population, while the average birthrate in the Middle East is 25, according to the World Bank.

As the 19th-century Indian poet Rabindranath Tagore observed, “Every time a child is born, it brings with it the hope that God is not yet disappointed with man.” It seems the Man upstairs isn’t yet ready to cut and run from Iraq.” (end quote)

As we all know, social historians report that fecundity is the best of all measures of a nation’s optimism.

Nov 2, 2006 - 4:31 pm 79. Bostonian:

Wolverine,
Oh please.
Learn something about economics and history. You just don’t know anything.

Nov 2, 2006 - 4:46 pm 80. Joseph (formerly Samuel):

As a former Democrat who lives in Washington D.C. who actually knows John Kerry I can only say that John is not someone I would waste much time defending.

To you Leftist (Democrats or whoever) so full of BDS that your ability to reason has been impaired, especially those whose mindsets have darkened to the point that your best hopes are dependent upon the failure of good people, I will only point out that if one cannot properly reason the difference between say Bush and Hitler, Genghis Kahn’s henchmen and U.S. Soldiers, Guantanamo Bay and a truly terrifying German Concentration Camp or Russian Gulag, then you are not prepared to lead. If these types of reasonings are just put forward for the sake of politics, then such power is purchased at a great cost and I seriously doubt whatever power is obtained will hold.

I am a Jew of German extraction and I know full well the possibilities of what true evil can happen. If there is one person not looking passed history, that person is George W. Bush. Say what you will about his competence, his ability to wage War, disagree with his priorities or implementation of policy, but please, do not expect me to accept a leftist worldview that treats our current leader and holds our country as the main reasons for our worlds problems.

Feeling one’s own belief’s and solutions are superior certainly does not justify the current political climate. Some may feel that the Democrats have better plans or positions on the issues but please realize that either political party when in power has more to offer this world then all the rest of the nations combined. If tearing down our President and/or completely ruining the political process is the means to achieve power then the consequence is lost on those who endeavor to participate in such sad actions. The sad truth is as a middle aged man I have NEVER seen the media and one party totally rooting for the failure of the other with so much at stake, and yes until 2004 I voted straight ticket Democratic. This even includes Watergate and I lived in this town (Washington) at that time. This is nuts!

The only group more culpable then Democrats is the MSM. What power Democrats obtain this way will not last, and the MSM is more tarnished everday, I doubt the ‘net-roots’ lead by people like KOS is the answer.

The only hope for the Democrats is they become more moderate due to the moderates they have held their nose to put forward in swing states. Three pro-life Senate canddates, but then again Al Gore, Dick Gephardt, Harry Reid, and Tom Dascle all started out as pro-life Democrats. We will see what becomes of those beholden to the Party at a national level, I don’t hold much hope.

Until the Democrats prove they understand the difference between fighting for civilization rather than for poliical power I will remain estranged from their cause. If Democrats assume any success in this election is an affirmation to what they truly want to implement, and if their party follows the path of the four mentioned above then they will be in for a rude awakening indeed.

Nov 2, 2006 - 4:58 pm 81. Buddy Larsen:

The very best marker–as an economist you will know this–is the rate on the long bond, wolverine. Static analysis is not even analysis, and moneymen, international bankers and governments, understand what countries to invest in, and so far USA is looking really good, with long bonds @ well below 5%.

Dems love to quote the growing deficit, but the never quote the shrinking percentage of the GDP that it represents.

Your worries about the future are well-founded, however, in the ticking time bomb represented by the boomer’s retirement effects on the two big entitlement programs, Social Security and (esp) Medicare. You’re right, you 20 somethings can be in trouble, unless the country maintains pro-growth policies and reforms the two big programs (as well as, while we’re at it, the 16,000 page IRS code that costs $250bb/yr worth of column-switching penciling and other assorted no-value-added paper-shuffling).

I’m not a fan of boomers per se, but their numbers can’t be blamed on them. Their parents did that. And the boomers will hand over to you an economy currently @ $14tt/yr, and a net asset base currently @ $160tt.

That is, if the Eco professors at UM will let their students learn the facts of growth, so that their students might have a chance to graduate able to comprehend the difference between a vote “for” versus a vote “against” their own financial futures.

Nov 2, 2006 - 5:05 pm 82. Captain Hate:

“I would just add that, for Conservatives, it might not be wise to pounce on Kerry for “mis-speaking,” considering the propensity to gaffe of the current president.”

I doubt that the current president incorrectly uses “gaffe” as a verb, genius. Love those public schools.

Nov 2, 2006 - 5:05 pm 83. Captain Hate:

“This is a sore subject for me because your generation fucked up our nation’s finances so completely that I might see double digit ir, inflation and a plummeting dollar as foreign reserves hedge against this and move their money into diferent currencies.”

Buddy’s already addressed the first half of this but what are those economic mensas at Meeeeechigan saying is the currency du jour that debt holders will be flocking to? The Euro: Don’t think so. What else?? This isn’t the Mexican peso we’re talking about here, Wolverine.

Nov 2, 2006 - 5:24 pm 84. Wolverine:

Beantown,

Profound. What happened? Did the boss ream you for not salting the fries?

Buddy,

Interesting you bring up the bond market because Bush’s deficits have resulted in the public holding 46% (per year) more debt than they held 5 years ago, from 1.5tt to 4.84 tt. Furthermore, as the demographics shift where the burden falls to a smaller portion of the workforce, I feel the days of the dollar are not what they once were.

Captn,

I think it says A LOT when the currencies of two regions whose demographic profiles are much worse than ours have appreciated against the dollar. I don’t need a Michigan degree to tell me that the laws of supply and demand are working against us here.

Nov 2, 2006 - 5:32 pm 85. Posse Incitatus:

First off, as my blog entry states, we have every reason to believe Kerry meant what he said. He cordially loathes the military, joined only when the draft threatened and smeared it wholesale ever since.

And kudos to Ray for reminding us that Kerry STILL hasn’t produced his full military records. Talk about irony, Bush’s files have been given a full rectal examination but Kerry’s (which have clearly been whitewashed) haven’t even been looked at.

Wolverine: Thanks for bringing up the chickenhawk argument. I assume you will not be voting, then?

After all, since you aren’t serving questions of war and peace are beyond your moral authority, right?

I mean, really. At some point when you trot out the “Well then why don’t you join up,” line, you’re going do to it to a veteran, who will tell you to shut the hell up. Why set yourself up for that?

Nov 2, 2006 - 5:45 pm 86. Buddy Larsen:

Also, it should be noted that USA has made a major effort in the post-WWII era precisely *to* build up the value and stability of the free-world’s currencies.

Now that our many and varied trading partners are in a global economic boom, of course their money is stronger, and as such of course the greenback will have increasing competition as a store of value.

We shouldn’t want it any other way–the analogy would be a banker who doesn’t want his clients to prosper because they would thereby become less dependent.

This BTW seems to be the current American economic-left’s core position–that since once upon a time USA had two-thirds of global output, and since today it only has one-third (despite our huge growth), that they own a carte blanc to blame someone–guess who–for our relative “decline” from when Europe and Asia were in shambles.

Nov 2, 2006 - 5:50 pm 87. Captain Hate:

Wolverine,

You still haven’t told me which currency investors will trust to hold its value and not be eroded by inflation more than the dollar for the long-term. Telling me about current regional tends is *not* a good answer and shame on Meeechigan’s profs if they encouraged non-specific responses such as that.

Hint: I don’t think there is one. That’s not to say that the demographic situations that you and Buddy alluded to aren’t problematic; however, before they reach the point where there is a real danger of debt-holders demanding their payments in a currency other than dollars, corrective measures will be taken or we’ll all be up the creek.

Nov 2, 2006 - 6:01 pm 88. Wolverine:

“Also, it should be noted that USA has made a major effort in the post-WWII era precisely *to* build up the value and stability of the free-world’s currencies.”

No disagreement here. But my argument here isn’t with the United States. I don’t understand why so many in the GOP assume that criticism of Bush is the same as criticism of the US. That never made much sense to me (however useful it is as a political tool to rally “the base”).

“We shouldn’t want it any other way–the analogy would be a banker who doesn’t want his clients to prosper because they would thereby become less dependent. ”

I don’t think the analogy fits. I never bought into the idea that economics was a zero-sum game, but I think it’s equally foolish to assume that everyone’s a winner (unless you pitch stocks, in which case it never goes down).

Captain,

You set up another false choice. Central banks are diversifying their reserves, opting to hold a basket of currencies rather than just one. However benign this may seem, it does have consequences as most central banks still hold dollar reserves. But this is beginning to change.

Nov 2, 2006 - 6:13 pm 89. Buddy Larsen:

There you go again, wolverine, with the decontexted straight-line numbers. Remember your debt-financing 101–that the truth derives from ratio-analysis, and the basic tools are two, as reflected in the two “business statements”, the P&L and the balance sheet.

For this debate, the first might state, say, the nation’s risk-discounted spread between the return-on-investment vs the costs of the debt-service, and the second might state, say, the national debt/equity, or asset/liability ratio.

The debt numbers per se, isolated, just hang in space, without accounting meaning.

Nov 2, 2006 - 6:46 pm 90. Captain Hate:

Wolverine,

Don’t think so; what I was talking about was how all the economic nervous Nellies like Krugman get their panties in a bunch because A)there’s so much national debt and B)it’s owned by investors in other countries. My point is that it doesn’t matter as long as the economy is growing, as Buddy has said. Where other countries have gotten in trouble is when their economies have gone in the toilet and inflation has gotten out of hand; debt-holders, particularly from other countries, want their payments in currencies other than the, by then, deeply devalued one of the source country.

I bought my house during the Carter years, when inflation was as bad as its been in the last 60 years but didn’t approach what other countries have endured. The country found it intolerable and put Reagan in charge; inflation was conquered as the Krugmans of the world wet their drawers. Shortly thereafter I refinanced my house as the stock market went on an unprecedented boom.

Nov 2, 2006 - 6:47 pm 91. Buddy Larsen:

Those foreigners who hold our debt hold our debt because the bought US Treasury Bonds in our open auctions. They bought it because the wanted to invest in the USA. Why they want to invest in the USA is, they like the risk/reward ratio. why they like it is, our political stability, our transparent systems, our liquidity, and our financial, fiscal, and monetary management.

Yes, wolverine, due to continually-evolving political/economic policies and personnel, these factors continually rise and fall at the margins–that’s what makes markets.

It is for a fact a little unsettling to the risk-averse, the suspicious, and the envious. Many go so far as to believe in command economies, tho those have never competed well in the making of well-being for the people, and generally evolve a bellicose foreign policy as a compensation.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:05 pm 92. Buddy Larsen:

Not to mention that in command economies, as sure as night follows day, soon enough there’ll be a secret police to control enemies of the state.

The continuum is all over history, like white on rice: the choice is between trying to keep up with the Joneses vs trying to keep out of the gulags.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:27 pm 93. Wolverine:

Buddy,

I can’t disagree with anything you wrote. But, as long as we’re using cliches, all good things must come to an end.

I’ve got to run, but it’s been a nice exchange. I value your opinions and enjoyed reading your writing.

We’ll keep in touch.

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:36 pm 94. Buddy Larsen:

Nite, wolverine–question them profs!
;-D

Nov 2, 2006 - 7:40 pm 95. WichitaBoy:

Superb comments, Buddy.

Nov 2, 2006 - 10:50 pm 96. Terrye:

Why balme Clinton? How soon they forget.

It is amazing how a Demcoratic President can make regime change policy in Iraq and somewhow that does not count. He can launch a military operation against that country in 1998 and somehow that does not count. He can warn that not only does Saddam have WMD but guarantees that Saddam will use them and somehow that does not count. He can support a sanctions regime that turns into a scam and somehow that does not count. He can threaten reprecussions if Saddam does not stop shooting at our planes and violatin ghe the cease fire and somehow that does not count. He can support Bush invading that country and somehow that does not count.

Democrats not only did not resolve the situation they made war virtually inevitable with their constant threats and never ending bravado with a mamdan they chose to taunt rather than effectively deal with. Then of course the s*** hit the fan on the next’s guy’s watch and now they want to distance themselves.

As for the oil, well the oil in the hands of the terrorists would give them the means to do great harm. But whenever the anti war people started their no blood for oil mantra the only they accomplished was to make targets of the soldiers they claim Kerry was not dissing. Puhleaze, that is sucking up to the enemy guys if you can’t see that you are as dense as Kerry is.

Nov 3, 2006 - 1:49 am 97. Wolverine:

Terry- That is some of the dumbest shit I’ve read on the web. Congratulations.

Nov 3, 2006 - 6:27 pm 98. Luther McLeod:

No, not really, Wolverine. You need to get out more.

Nov 3, 2006 - 6:54 pm 99. Steven Mitchell:

Wolverine, you haven’t read much by your fellow memebots, then. That would explain thinking anything you have said thus far would arrive like a thunderclap and convert us poor, deluded morons.

At least you only aluded to that special stupidity that usually goes by “No Blood for Oil”. Most memebots just say it out loud, though I guess Kos is working on that. Check your user manual. But that allusion was, by far, the dumbest thing said in this topic so far. You even beat Mr. Bones, which is no small feat. Pat yourself on the back.

Nov 3, 2006 - 8:05 pm 100. Wolverine:

Well, well, this must be the pack of hyenas the roam these empty plains.

The funniest line in that rant was this:

Democrats … made war virtually inevitable with their constant threats and never ending bravado with a mamdan they chose to taunt rather than effectively deal with.

Effectively dealt with indeed….LOL!

War was “inevitable”…..LOL!

Then of course the s*** hit the fan on the next’s guy’s watch and now they want to distance themselves.

I apologize if I offend any of you in advance if you lost loved ones in 9-11, but, as a nation, it’s TIME TO MOVE ON!

Nov 4, 2006 - 12:21 am 101. Wolverine:

Wolverine, you haven’t read much by your fellow memebots, then. That would explain thinking anything you have said thus far would arrive like a thunderclap and convert us poor, deluded morons.

No, I don’t care to convert you at all.

Your moment in time is over. Come Nov. 7, and in turn 2 years from now, your policies and your ideology will start collecting dust.

Go home. Your side had their chance and they blew it. It was written on the wall from the beginning. Team up a drunk with a couple of unhinged senior citizens and you get 2000-2006. That will soon be a thing of the past.

Nov 4, 2006 - 12:30 am 102. Captain Hate:

“Come on guys. I’m not trying to pick a fight..”

Ok, whose bullshit detector didn’t get pegged on this one?

Nov 4, 2006 - 3:49 am 103. Buddy Larsen:

Wolverine, you’re a fiesty l’il turd, that’s fer sher. But so were we all, at 20. Ah, youth, too bad it’s wasted on the young (as someone once said).

Nov 4, 2006 - 8:19 am 104. joe:

markus

Yes I believe Jon Curry meant just what he said. There is nothing new about this from him. What is only knew is his poor sense of timing for the rest of the left.

It is also an attitude that is shared by most democrats.

Nov 4, 2006 - 9:03 pm 105. MikeD:

I sure do wish I was 20 again and smart. Before 40 years of additional inquiry, reading, two advanced degrees, and too many years of real life experience got in the way and made me so damn stupid.

Nov 5, 2006 - 7:45 am 106. Sandy P:

Boy, I’m sorry I’m late to this party.

Wolverine, you might expand your (war) horizons if you visit Windsofchange.net and Rantburg – but you’d better know your stuff at Rantburg.

As to the Euro, well, odds are it’s all over except for the screaming. It’s hurting too many countries.

Milton Friedman might have been right, about 15 years before it goes pffffht.

Where else is the world going to go?

Plus, they buy our bonds as a “tribute” because we are the world’s policeman. Do you think the Chicoms/Europeans want to spend their money patrolling the seas? We pay them a small return while we put our money to more profitable ventures.

Brothers Judd and the skeptical optimist could also be fun places.

Don’t forget, if you find debt to be such a bad thing, pay cash for your house.

Mebbe we should have let that generation keep smoking, it would have killed us off sooner.

Nov 5, 2006 - 9:58 am 107. Sandy P:

If I could also counsel Wolverine, I would say be careful what you wish for, Nam ended when I was a teenager and then Peanut was president and did nothing after November 4, 1979. Here we are today.

You do not want the Nam legacy on you or your children.

We are here today because of it. You will be on our side of the fence sooner than you think. Because inside you there is a threshold which will be crossed and you will say enough is enough.

You are the next Greatest Generation. Nam was kind of an end skirmish in a long war, this is a beginning skirmish in a longer war. The Iraqi people kept faith with us, they voted again and again, we must keep faith with them.

Don’t forget, it took us 80 years to settle our differences, and we lost 600K in 4 years from small population, IIRC.

Nov 5, 2006 - 10:29 am 108. Buddy Larsen:

If we start going to hell, the long bond rate will tell us.

Long rates are the risk-discounting mechanism for long-term economic prospects. The world is snapping up our bonds for under a nickel on the Dollar, in competitive Treasury auctions (where we get to see the naked quivering core of the price mechanism driving the supply/demand ratio driving the price mechanism) several times every month, regularly scheduled, pre-announced, come one come all.

A veritable cornucopia of fundamental information on how the globe thinks we’re doing, in real-time.

So, wolverine, there’s really no need for you to guess, speculate, wonder, imagine, cast runes, chant spells, read chicken entrails, in order to know what’s going on.

But the first thing I’d do, if I were you, is get my money back from the economics dep’t @ UM.

Nov 5, 2006 - 9:35 pm 109. Buddy Larsen:

And, wolverine, it goes without saying, that all those loan proceeds–foreign and domestic–have to earn returns higher than the interest on the principle.

If our financial markets allocate capital well, and the business sector adds value, then we grow and create jobs, and generate tax revenue.

Our current expansion, our growth, job creation, and expanding tax revenues, are in part the measure of the spread on the Treasury financing that the left calls dangerous (even though it creates jobs for the little guy), that the right calls investment, and that the world financial markets agree with the right on, as evidenced by the very low long-bond rates.

There’s no hiding from these numbers.

Unfortunately, the left spends its energy not on boosting the system, but rather on cherry-picking the data in order to politicize and denigrate varied subsets of the system. It’s called “talking down the economy”, and it’s done continually, whenever an R is following a president’s name.

But despite the attack, the system itself–AKA “the economy”–is currently humming, hitting on all cylinders, and has been since those tax-cuts you like to mock.

But problems in the entitlements loom out a few years hence. Anyone who cares to look, has all the data they need to see it, just a few clicks away.

There is no need to rely on the Pelosi & Kennedy spins, nor is there any need to heed any other charlatans who may rise on the backs of a sufficiently lazy, distracted, or politicized constituency.

The cure is going to be in policy reform. The very *first* thing to do is, don’t elect anyone from either party who tells you any different.

Meantime, watch the long-bond rate. Watch other things too, of course (gold, the mkt indexes, commerce data), but watch that rate as your lodestone.

And rather than call the people here “ideological”–you couldn’t be more wrong–why not admit that you yourself are in the midst of a prolonged indoctrination at one of the most ideological institutions in the country?

Nov 5, 2006 - 10:25 pm 110. Luther McLeod:

Good stuff, Buddy. But I’ll bet your goats paid more attention to what you say than wolverine will. It’s odd how that young energy can become so locked into an “ideological” stance (pot meet kettle). I know, having been there myself I guess it takes a little aging to open up to different ways of looking at the world, and appreciating the things that really count.

Nov 6, 2006 - 7:57 am 111. Buddy Larsen:

Yep, Luther–young blood is impatient, doesn’t want to start at the bottom and work up. The “left” tells ‘em they have a right to start at the top (and presumably work down, since that’s the only remaining available direction), and kids just eat that sh*t up!

Nov 6, 2006 - 9:44 am

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