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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Fear of Rudy&#8221; at the New York Times</title>
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	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: mikem</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86627</link>
		<dc:creator>mikem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2007 05:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86627</guid>
		<description>Thanks, SJ. No real harm done. Every cause has its jerk-lurkers.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, SJ. No real harm done. Every cause has its jerk-lurkers.</p>
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		<title>By: SJ</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86626</link>
		<dc:creator>SJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2007 04:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I obviously disagree with you quite vehemently on the subject of abortion, mikem.  And my identity is clear to anyone who cares to pass their mouse over the typekey logo at the bottom of my posts.  But I am truly sorry for any harrassment you have received.  Shame on the perpetrator, who only does a disservice to the cause he/she purports to support.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I obviously disagree with you quite vehemently on the subject of abortion, mikem.  And my identity is clear to anyone who cares to pass their mouse over the typekey logo at the bottom of my posts.  But I am truly sorry for any harrassment you have received.  Shame on the perpetrator, who only does a disservice to the cause he/she purports to support.</p>
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		<title>By: mikem</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86625</link>
		<dc:creator>mikem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2007 03:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86625</guid>
		<description>I posted the following at the most recent post also:

Following my responses to a remark about conservative &quot;Social Authoritarians&quot; in which I  compared choice for women to the lack of choice afforded to men, I received a notice from a legitimate name and personal email account (I googled) at a Planned Parenthood address. It accused me of trying to send pornography to the personal account of a woman staffer there.
Typekey does not display email addresses, but Roger has had differing posting systems since I started posting here. Regardless, they accessed my email address somewhere and, of course, Roger would not have provided it. I know that without asking.
The timing is certain though, knowing my posting history on the subject. It was sent in response to my comments here.
I posted for years with my email address on display and only stopped after spam became an issue. And yet this is the first time I have been harrassed for posting anywhere on any subject, although I have received angry but reasonably civil emails.
No BS about feeling intimidated, I don&#039;t. Just sure that I have touched a vulnerable spot in suggesting that men deserve a reasonable degree of choice also. That idea is apparantly beyond the pale to some &quot;pro choicers&quot;. Even to the degree that they will falsely accuse others.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted the following at the most recent post also:</p>
<p>Following my responses to a remark about conservative &#8220;Social Authoritarians&#8221; in which I  compared choice for women to the lack of choice afforded to men, I received a notice from a legitimate name and personal email account (I googled) at a Planned Parenthood address. It accused me of trying to send pornography to the personal account of a woman staffer there.<br />
Typekey does not display email addresses, but Roger has had differing posting systems since I started posting here. Regardless, they accessed my email address somewhere and, of course, Roger would not have provided it. I know that without asking.<br />
The timing is certain though, knowing my posting history on the subject. It was sent in response to my comments here.<br />
I posted for years with my email address on display and only stopped after spam became an issue. And yet this is the first time I have been harrassed for posting anywhere on any subject, although I have received angry but reasonably civil emails.<br />
No BS about feeling intimidated, I don&#8217;t. Just sure that I have touched a vulnerable spot in suggesting that men deserve a reasonable degree of choice also. That idea is apparantly beyond the pale to some &#8220;pro choicers&#8221;. Even to the degree that they will falsely accuse others.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Okie</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86624</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Okie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86624</guid>
		<description>Well, since SJ, Terrye and mikem have already pulled the thread somewhat OT, I&#039;m going to jump in.

SJ, Terrye and mikem:  How many aborted babies (pardon, fetuses) could be adopted if carried to full-term?  Granted that all pregnancies carry some risk, why should we not expect a woman who conceives to bring the baby into the world for adoption, and the man to bear any financial costs involved?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, since SJ, Terrye and mikem have already pulled the thread somewhat OT, I&#8217;m going to jump in.</p>
<p>SJ, Terrye and mikem:  How many aborted babies (pardon, fetuses) could be adopted if carried to full-term?  Granted that all pregnancies carry some risk, why should we not expect a woman who conceives to bring the baby into the world for adoption, and the man to bear any financial costs involved?</p>
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		<title>By: mikem</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86623</link>
		<dc:creator>mikem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86623</guid>
		<description>&quot;...the kind of abortion you are talking about is very rare and is only performed under certain circumstances.&quot;

Absolutely untrue. There are no restrictions on PBA, not on circumstances, not on lateness of term. None. It&#039;s been tried but the courts have said no. And while a small percentage of total abortions may be your idea of &quot;rare&quot;, the numbers certainly don&#039;t match my idea of rare.
Calling me a hysteric for pointing out the statement that PBA and abortion itself makes concerning the importance of our rights is hysterical in itself.

&quot;Men&#039;s right my ass&quot;. Thank you. It took you a while but you finally stated your bigotry and hatred clearly. To hell with men. To hell with my sons and grandsons. They (and your sons and grandsons) don&#039;t deserve the same rights as your daughters and granddaughters.
You&#039;ll be proud to know that &quot;men&#039;s rights my ass&quot; and your next smear are easily the most common responses to my plea for men&#039;s rights regarding child support.

&quot;So, is rape a man&#039;s right too? How about slapping the little lady around? If you are going to assume that it is all about a man&#039;s right to force his will on a bad baby killing woman, just how far does that right go?&quot;

Are you foaming at the mouth at this point? Does the fact that more men rape women than the other way around mean that all men are rapists or that all men have lesser rights than women. How about women who deliberately infect their children with poisons and infectants to gain sympathy? Is that a right? How about women who murder their husbands? How about women who murder their children? (And then gain sympathy from other women. When fathers kill their children, they are hateful controlling monsters, when a mother does the same, she &quot;must be sick&quot; because women are NEVER hateful or controlling or monsters.)   You&#039;re going off your rocker with blustering shock toward the notion that men should have rights too. But you are in sync with most women in doing so, believe me.
Do you have a whole string of lesser rights for blacks, who lead in many violent crime categories? But no, I&#039;m sure your bigotry is reserved for all men and you would never be so ignorant as to suggest that some black men&#039;s wrongdoing negates all black men&#039;s rights, would you?

&quot;If you are going to assume that it is all about a man&#039;s right to force his will on a bad baby killing woman, just how far does that right go?&quot;

What the hell are you talking about? This is the sickest strawman yet. I suggest no such thing. I suggest that men have the right to choose parenthood too. I&#039;m not even suggesting that a man have a say in a woman&#039;s right to choose, either to abort or not to abort. I&#039;m saying that men should have the right to refuse fatherhood, at least in the form of child support, if they never agreed to have a child in the first place. That&#039;s pretty non drastic compared to the solution that women use to protect their rights. Your response is to accuse me of being pro-rape and pro-abuse. And you call me hysterical??
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;the kind of abortion you are talking about is very rare and is only performed under certain circumstances.&#8221;</p>
<p>Absolutely untrue. There are no restrictions on PBA, not on circumstances, not on lateness of term. None. It&#8217;s been tried but the courts have said no. And while a small percentage of total abortions may be your idea of &#8220;rare&#8221;, the numbers certainly don&#8217;t match my idea of rare.<br />
Calling me a hysteric for pointing out the statement that PBA and abortion itself makes concerning the importance of our rights is hysterical in itself.</p>
<p>&#8220;Men&#8217;s right my ass&#8221;. Thank you. It took you a while but you finally stated your bigotry and hatred clearly. To hell with men. To hell with my sons and grandsons. They (and your sons and grandsons) don&#8217;t deserve the same rights as your daughters and granddaughters.<br />
You&#8217;ll be proud to know that &#8220;men&#8217;s rights my ass&#8221; and your next smear are easily the most common responses to my plea for men&#8217;s rights regarding child support.</p>
<p>&#8220;So, is rape a man&#8217;s right too? How about slapping the little lady around? If you are going to assume that it is all about a man&#8217;s right to force his will on a bad baby killing woman, just how far does that right go?&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you foaming at the mouth at this point? Does the fact that more men rape women than the other way around mean that all men are rapists or that all men have lesser rights than women. How about women who deliberately infect their children with poisons and infectants to gain sympathy? Is that a right? How about women who murder their husbands? How about women who murder their children? (And then gain sympathy from other women. When fathers kill their children, they are hateful controlling monsters, when a mother does the same, she &#8220;must be sick&#8221; because women are NEVER hateful or controlling or monsters.)   You&#8217;re going off your rocker with blustering shock toward the notion that men should have rights too. But you are in sync with most women in doing so, believe me.<br />
Do you have a whole string of lesser rights for blacks, who lead in many violent crime categories? But no, I&#8217;m sure your bigotry is reserved for all men and you would never be so ignorant as to suggest that some black men&#8217;s wrongdoing negates all black men&#8217;s rights, would you?</p>
<p>&#8220;If you are going to assume that it is all about a man&#8217;s right to force his will on a bad baby killing woman, just how far does that right go?&#8221;</p>
<p>What the hell are you talking about? This is the sickest strawman yet. I suggest no such thing. I suggest that men have the right to choose parenthood too. I&#8217;m not even suggesting that a man have a say in a woman&#8217;s right to choose, either to abort or not to abort. I&#8217;m saying that men should have the right to refuse fatherhood, at least in the form of child support, if they never agreed to have a child in the first place. That&#8217;s pretty non drastic compared to the solution that women use to protect their rights. Your response is to accuse me of being pro-rape and pro-abuse. And you call me hysterical??</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86622</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86622</guid>
		<description>Ricpic, I wrote &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gojou.net/whatsapundit/2007/04/on_cicular_firingsquads.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this just for your supposed Rudy-hating base.&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Look, all I want is a competent, grounded, and focused person in the Oval Office. That&#039;s it. Unfortunately, the &quot;process&quot; seems geared to weed those folks out early. (The anti-&quot;War on Terror&quot; crowd pretty much makes a responsible Democratic candidate a mere fantasy for &#039;08, but that&#039;s another post...) ....&lt;/blockquote&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ricpic, I wrote <a href="http://www.gojou.net/whatsapundit/2007/04/on_cicular_firingsquads.html" rel="nofollow">this just for your supposed Rudy-hating base.</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Look, all I want is a competent, grounded, and focused person in the Oval Office. That&#8217;s it. Unfortunately, the &#8220;process&#8221; seems geared to weed those folks out early. (The anti-&#8221;War on Terror&#8221; crowd pretty much makes a responsible Democratic candidate a mere fantasy for &#8216;08, but that&#8217;s another post&#8230;) &#8230;.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: SJ</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86621</link>
		<dc:creator>SJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86621</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why I&#039;m bothering.  Just a personal peeve I have about not being understood, I suppose.  But Mikem, you seem incapable of comprehending what I wrote.  When I called the issue complex, I was OBVIOUSLY referring to both sexes.  I specifically criticized the emphasis in the pro-choice movement on women&#039;s rights exclusively, when EVERYONE knows that in so many (not all, obviously) cases the decision to abort is made as a result of both partners&#039; wishes - explicit or implicit.  In many cases, a man does not come out and say he wants an abortion, but his actions or absence speak as loud as words.  It was just as much his decision, but he abdicates all responsibility for it.  Am I suggesting that there are never cases where women have abortions against the wishes of men?  Of course not.  But those numbers are far fewer.  That doesn&#039;t mean those situations should be ignored, or that men&#039;s rights should be trampled on.  On the contrary, if the extremes on BOTH sides of this debate would acknowledge the rights and responsibilities of both sexes, we would be at the start of an honest discussion.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why I&#8217;m bothering.  Just a personal peeve I have about not being understood, I suppose.  But Mikem, you seem incapable of comprehending what I wrote.  When I called the issue complex, I was OBVIOUSLY referring to both sexes.  I specifically criticized the emphasis in the pro-choice movement on women&#8217;s rights exclusively, when EVERYONE knows that in so many (not all, obviously) cases the decision to abort is made as a result of both partners&#8217; wishes &#8211; explicit or implicit.  In many cases, a man does not come out and say he wants an abortion, but his actions or absence speak as loud as words.  It was just as much his decision, but he abdicates all responsibility for it.  Am I suggesting that there are never cases where women have abortions against the wishes of men?  Of course not.  But those numbers are far fewer.  That doesn&#8217;t mean those situations should be ignored, or that men&#8217;s rights should be trampled on.  On the contrary, if the extremes on BOTH sides of this debate would acknowledge the rights and responsibilities of both sexes, we would be at the start of an honest discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Terrye</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86620</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86620</guid>
		<description>So, is rape a man&#039;s right too? How about slapping the little lady around? If you are going to assume that it is all about a man&#039;s right to force his will on a bad baby killing woman, just how far does that right go?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, is rape a man&#8217;s right too? How about slapping the little lady around? If you are going to assume that it is all about a man&#8217;s right to force his will on a bad baby killing woman, just how far does that right go?</p>
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		<title>By: Terrye</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86619</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86619</guid>
		<description>Men&#039;s right my ass.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Men&#8217;s right my ass.</p>
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		<title>By: Terrye</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86618</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2007/04/10/fear-of-rudy-at-the-new-york-times/#comment-86618</guid>
		<description>mikem:

Like all fanatics you choose hysteria over reason.  the kind of abortion you are talking about is very rare and is only performed under certain circumstances, one of which is not the desire of the mother to avoid parenthood. If you think it is, you don&#039;t know what you are talking about.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mikem:</p>
<p>Like all fanatics you choose hysteria over reason.  the kind of abortion you are talking about is very rare and is only performed under certain circumstances, one of which is not the desire of the mother to avoid parenthood. If you think it is, you don&#8217;t know what you are talking about.</p>
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