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	<title>Comments on: Dems in Panic:  Obama Attacked From Two Directions</title>
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	<description>Just another Pajamasmedia.com weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Pat Patterson</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93562</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Patterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 23:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93562</guid>
		<description>There is rumored to be a file that was found in Stasi headquarters concerning a meeting of CDU bigwigs in 1948 discussing candidates to be the first Chancellor of Germany since the end of the war.  According to the Stasi snoops the group couldn&#039;t come up with a candidate that they agreed on so put forward the name of Konrad Adenauer as a compromise candidate.  One of the  politicos argued that after all Adenauer was 73 and couldn&#039;t possibly last more than a year or two.

Unfortunately for the next in line that year or two took another fourteen.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is rumored to be a file that was found in Stasi headquarters concerning a meeting of CDU bigwigs in 1948 discussing candidates to be the first Chancellor of Germany since the end of the war.  According to the Stasi snoops the group couldn&#8217;t come up with a candidate that they agreed on so put forward the name of Konrad Adenauer as a compromise candidate.  One of the  politicos argued that after all Adenauer was 73 and couldn&#8217;t possibly last more than a year or two.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for the next in line that year or two took another fourteen.</p>
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		<title>By: TerryeL</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93561</link>
		<dc:creator>TerryeL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 23:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93561</guid>
		<description>And the Fop has a point. Wright does not just hate the likes of George Bush, he has nothing good to say about FDR, Truman, the Founding Fathers or just about anyone else who is white. That is the problem.

I mean My God, if he thinks FDR lied us into a war and that we like nuking Japanese, well what is there to say to such a person? I don&#039;t really want to be in the same room with this guy, much less have a &quot;debate&quot; about race with him. Screw him I say.

And I doubt if getting someone like Bill Richardson to endorse him is going to help either. Hispanics are not a bit certain about him and Richardson has not shown the ability to sway them thus far.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the Fop has a point. Wright does not just hate the likes of George Bush, he has nothing good to say about FDR, Truman, the Founding Fathers or just about anyone else who is white. That is the problem.</p>
<p>I mean My God, if he thinks FDR lied us into a war and that we like nuking Japanese, well what is there to say to such a person? I don&#8217;t really want to be in the same room with this guy, much less have a &#8220;debate&#8221; about race with him. Screw him I say.</p>
<p>And I doubt if getting someone like Bill Richardson to endorse him is going to help either. Hispanics are not a bit certain about him and Richardson has not shown the ability to sway them thus far.</p>
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		<title>By: kcom</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93560</link>
		<dc:creator>kcom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93560</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;Besides, I might argue that both Pastors Falwell and Robertson have a far wider congregation and far more influence in the lives of many Americans than does Rev Wright.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Here&#039;s the distinction you&#039;re entirely missing.  We&#039;re not being asked to elect any of those people to high national office - or any office.  Whether Rev. Falwell has a bad influence on any particular person who listens to him is totally outside our control.  Whether Rev. Wright has a bad influence on Barack Obama is totally outside our control.  What is totally within our control is the decision of whether to vote for him or not.  That&#039;s what this all about - determining the significance of Barack Obama&#039;s long association with Rev. Wright and what it means about him as a person and what values he would bring to the White House.

&quot;&lt;i&gt; So while we may justly be outraged at such a display of hate on the part of Wright, we should be equally incensed at that same hate being spewed on National television by other Pastors.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

It&#039;s simply not about being incensed at this or that particular wrong committed by this or that person, although that might well be justified.  The situation at hand is about something much more specific - should we elect Barack Obama or not?  That&#039;s the thing we have an actual, concrete say about.  And in that decision, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are irrelevant.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>Besides, I might argue that both Pastors Falwell and Robertson have a far wider congregation and far more influence in the lives of many Americans than does Rev Wright.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the distinction you&#8217;re entirely missing.  We&#8217;re not being asked to elect any of those people to high national office &#8211; or any office.  Whether Rev. Falwell has a bad influence on any particular person who listens to him is totally outside our control.  Whether Rev. Wright has a bad influence on Barack Obama is totally outside our control.  What is totally within our control is the decision of whether to vote for him or not.  That&#8217;s what this all about &#8211; determining the significance of Barack Obama&#8217;s long association with Rev. Wright and what it means about him as a person and what values he would bring to the White House.</p>
<p>&#8220;<i> So while we may justly be outraged at such a display of hate on the part of Wright, we should be equally incensed at that same hate being spewed on National television by other Pastors.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s simply not about being incensed at this or that particular wrong committed by this or that person, although that might well be justified.  The situation at hand is about something much more specific &#8211; should we elect Barack Obama or not?  That&#8217;s the thing we have an actual, concrete say about.  And in that decision, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are irrelevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Larsen</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93559</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93559</guid>
		<description>Well, a feller could, if was of a mind to, get in Falwell&#039;s or Robertson&#039;s good graces by changing whatever behavior they&#039;re criticizing. But he can&#039;t ever get in the good graces of someone who hates his skin color.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, a feller could, if was of a mind to, get in Falwell&#8217;s or Robertson&#8217;s good graces by changing whatever behavior they&#8217;re criticizing. But he can&#8217;t ever get in the good graces of someone who hates his skin color.</p>
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		<title>By: The Fop</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93558</link>
		<dc:creator>The Fop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93558</guid>
		<description>Not to sound like an egotistical blowhard, but there&#039;s two points that people seem to missing.

1. America was founded by White people. White people have always been in power, and they&#039;ve always been the majority. So whatever hatred or resentment that Black people feel towards White people in modern day America, that hatred and resentment cannot help but translate into anti-Americanism. Their attitude is that White people are bad, and therefore, America is bad.

If Black people look at George Washington, and the only thing that they can say about him is that he was a slave owner, and they can&#039;t appreciate all the great things he did, and are incapable of taking pride in the fact that he&#039;s the father of our country, then we&#039;re simply not ready for a Black president.

Black people have to do more than just appreciate the effort that White America has made over the past 40 years to remedy its racist past. They have to figure out a way to truly love this country if they want one of their own to run this country. They clearly have a long way to go.

2. If Obama&#039;s campaign had been crippled by either a sex scandal or a financial scandal, the superdelegates could hand Hillary the nomination and there would only be a minimal amount of backlash from Black people.

However, there is no way that the superdelegates can throw Obama under the bus over a controversy that centers on a Black preacher making anti-White, anti-American statements. People like Jeremiah Wright have performed an invaluable service to the Democratic party for many years. They have helped the Black community maintain their victim mentality, and sheapherded their flock to the voting booth to pull the lever for the Democrats, as the Democrats come closest to echoing their belief that America is a deeply flawed country that needs a near complete overhaul.

The Democratic party can survive without Barack Obama. It cannot survive without the likes of Jeremiah Wright. The alternative to Jeremiah Wright is the Republican mantra of pulling oneself up from ones own bootstraps. That sure isn&#039;t going to help the Democrats maintain their vice grip on the Black vote.

So the Democrats are stuck with Obama, who is dead in the water. Look for the media to start focusing on the narrative that if Obama loses, it&#039;s because we&#039;re still a racist country. Considering the supreme hatred they feel towards Bush, and the high hopes they had of recapturing the White House, being on the losing end of another election and chalking it up to racism is really gonna sting.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to sound like an egotistical blowhard, but there&#8217;s two points that people seem to missing.</p>
<p>1. America was founded by White people. White people have always been in power, and they&#8217;ve always been the majority. So whatever hatred or resentment that Black people feel towards White people in modern day America, that hatred and resentment cannot help but translate into anti-Americanism. Their attitude is that White people are bad, and therefore, America is bad.</p>
<p>If Black people look at George Washington, and the only thing that they can say about him is that he was a slave owner, and they can&#8217;t appreciate all the great things he did, and are incapable of taking pride in the fact that he&#8217;s the father of our country, then we&#8217;re simply not ready for a Black president.</p>
<p>Black people have to do more than just appreciate the effort that White America has made over the past 40 years to remedy its racist past. They have to figure out a way to truly love this country if they want one of their own to run this country. They clearly have a long way to go.</p>
<p>2. If Obama&#8217;s campaign had been crippled by either a sex scandal or a financial scandal, the superdelegates could hand Hillary the nomination and there would only be a minimal amount of backlash from Black people.</p>
<p>However, there is no way that the superdelegates can throw Obama under the bus over a controversy that centers on a Black preacher making anti-White, anti-American statements. People like Jeremiah Wright have performed an invaluable service to the Democratic party for many years. They have helped the Black community maintain their victim mentality, and sheapherded their flock to the voting booth to pull the lever for the Democrats, as the Democrats come closest to echoing their belief that America is a deeply flawed country that needs a near complete overhaul.</p>
<p>The Democratic party can survive without Barack Obama. It cannot survive without the likes of Jeremiah Wright. The alternative to Jeremiah Wright is the Republican mantra of pulling oneself up from ones own bootstraps. That sure isn&#8217;t going to help the Democrats maintain their vice grip on the Black vote.</p>
<p>So the Democrats are stuck with Obama, who is dead in the water. Look for the media to start focusing on the narrative that if Obama loses, it&#8217;s because we&#8217;re still a racist country. Considering the supreme hatred they feel towards Bush, and the high hopes they had of recapturing the White House, being on the losing end of another election and chalking it up to racism is really gonna sting.</p>
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		<title>By: TerryeL</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93557</link>
		<dc:creator>TerryeL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93557</guid>
		<description>And btw, I live in a rural area where many people are church goers and most would consider themselves Christian and I have never ever heard one single religious person I know say that we deserved 9/11. Not one.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And btw, I live in a rural area where many people are church goers and most would consider themselves Christian and I have never ever heard one single religious person I know say that we deserved 9/11. Not one.</p>
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		<title>By: TerryeL</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93556</link>
		<dc:creator>TerryeL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93556</guid>
		<description>dcldew;

There is no comparison here. Now if Phelps were McCain&#039;s spiritual adviser there might be, but he is not.

My great grandmother thought that her daughter Opal died at the age of 3 because my great grandfather had not been saved. That was about 90 years ago. Literally. She felt she was being punished. It was absurd and the notion that God would punish or abandon us is of course wrong.

But that is not what Wright is talking about. He is not talking about God abandoning us to our enemies because we left the faith. He is talking about the moral rightness in our enemies. They have a right to kill us because we deserve to die for our political sins.

Now I am not defending Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, and neither did anyone else. No one running for President pretended those remarks were acceptable.

And most ministers and priests would never say such things. The people who do are usually activists looking for attention.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dcldew;</p>
<p>There is no comparison here. Now if Phelps were McCain&#8217;s spiritual adviser there might be, but he is not.</p>
<p>My great grandmother thought that her daughter Opal died at the age of 3 because my great grandfather had not been saved. That was about 90 years ago. Literally. She felt she was being punished. It was absurd and the notion that God would punish or abandon us is of course wrong.</p>
<p>But that is not what Wright is talking about. He is not talking about God abandoning us to our enemies because we left the faith. He is talking about the moral rightness in our enemies. They have a right to kill us because we deserve to die for our political sins.</p>
<p>Now I am not defending Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, and neither did anyone else. No one running for President pretended those remarks were acceptable.</p>
<p>And most ministers and priests would never say such things. The people who do are usually activists looking for attention.</p>
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		<title>By: dclydew</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93555</link>
		<dc:creator>dclydew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93555</guid>
		<description>RattleGator and kcom,

If my argument was that Obama was no more blameworthy that some idiot flipping channels, your arguments would have some merit. However, I said nothing of the sort.

Obama should have his feet held to the fire on this. He should have to answer why he chose to sit in a church where hate was fed to the congregation like a Eucharist. Rev. Wright gets no free pass simply because other, hate mongering pastors exist. That isn&#039;t what I&#039;m saying at all. In my opinion, 20 years of listening to that sort of hate would make someone unfit to serve as President of the United States.

However, that HATE is a problem, not simply for those seeking office, but for all Americans. Do you think Rev. Wright&#039;s sermons don&#039;t encourage hatred of some Americans by others? Do you think his congregation goes home, laughs at Crazy Rev. Wright and then tries to co-exist with his fellows? I highly doubt that is the case.

And, do you think that the same sort of hate mongering, be it from Falwell, Robertson or ANY other supposed Leader will be any less harmful to those that listen?

I chose the Rev. Falwell&#039;s comment because of its obvious and striking parallels to Rev. Wright&#039;s putrid sermon blaming Some Americans for the actions of our enemies.

Besides, I might argue that both Pastors Falwell and Robertson have a far wider congregation and far more influence in the lives of many Americans than does Rev Wright. So while we may justly be outraged at such a display of hate on the part of Wright, we should be equally incensed at that same hate being spewed on National television by other Pastors.

No amount of hatred justifies hatred. No amount of Bullshit under the guise of religion, makes other bullshit less repugnant. My statements were not to excuse Rev. Wright, nor to excuse Obama. My point was that hatred, hatred against our fellow citizens is being preached by Black Preachers, Imams and Christian Conservatives alike... and in all they are worthy only of condemnation.

Matthew 23:27


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RattleGator and kcom,</p>
<p>If my argument was that Obama was no more blameworthy that some idiot flipping channels, your arguments would have some merit. However, I said nothing of the sort.</p>
<p>Obama should have his feet held to the fire on this. He should have to answer why he chose to sit in a church where hate was fed to the congregation like a Eucharist. Rev. Wright gets no free pass simply because other, hate mongering pastors exist. That isn&#8217;t what I&#8217;m saying at all. In my opinion, 20 years of listening to that sort of hate would make someone unfit to serve as President of the United States.</p>
<p>However, that HATE is a problem, not simply for those seeking office, but for all Americans. Do you think Rev. Wright&#8217;s sermons don&#8217;t encourage hatred of some Americans by others? Do you think his congregation goes home, laughs at Crazy Rev. Wright and then tries to co-exist with his fellows? I highly doubt that is the case.</p>
<p>And, do you think that the same sort of hate mongering, be it from Falwell, Robertson or ANY other supposed Leader will be any less harmful to those that listen?</p>
<p>I chose the Rev. Falwell&#8217;s comment because of its obvious and striking parallels to Rev. Wright&#8217;s putrid sermon blaming Some Americans for the actions of our enemies.</p>
<p>Besides, I might argue that both Pastors Falwell and Robertson have a far wider congregation and far more influence in the lives of many Americans than does Rev Wright. So while we may justly be outraged at such a display of hate on the part of Wright, we should be equally incensed at that same hate being spewed on National television by other Pastors.</p>
<p>No amount of hatred justifies hatred. No amount of Bullshit under the guise of religion, makes other bullshit less repugnant. My statements were not to excuse Rev. Wright, nor to excuse Obama. My point was that hatred, hatred against our fellow citizens is being preached by Black Preachers, Imams and Christian Conservatives alike&#8230; and in all they are worthy only of condemnation.</p>
<p>Matthew 23:27</p>
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		<title>By: kcom</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93554</link>
		<dc:creator>kcom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93554</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt;However, I really think it fair to hold Obama to his pastor&#039;s words if we do the same for anyone who tunes into Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Surely, you&#039;re not making that comparison seriously.  As has been pointed out early and often by others before me in all kinds of venues, it&#039;s an apples and oranges comparison.

Obama didn&#039;t flip through TV channels and decide to spend a few minutes watching Reverend Wright.  He chose the man as his personal minister, attended his church for 20 years, was married by him, took his children to that church, called him his spiritual counselor and has stated that he consults him before making any &quot;bold political decisions&quot;.  You&#039;re not seriously drawing an equivalence between that and someone who merely &quot;tunes into&quot; Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, are you?

You are also making a mistake, in my mind, in comparing a presidential candidate to a hypothetical anonymous &quot;anyone&quot;.  The implications of a certain behavior in a hypothetical anyone are completely different than the implications of the same behavior in a man who could be president of the United States, with all the power that office allows one to exercise.  If you compare Obama to a specific political candidate who you can prove has an initimate relationship with Pat Robertson, then you might be on to something.  As it is, your comparison is severely lacking.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>However, I really think it fair to hold Obama to his pastor&#8217;s words if we do the same for anyone who tunes into Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Surely, you&#8217;re not making that comparison seriously.  As has been pointed out early and often by others before me in all kinds of venues, it&#8217;s an apples and oranges comparison.</p>
<p>Obama didn&#8217;t flip through TV channels and decide to spend a few minutes watching Reverend Wright.  He chose the man as his personal minister, attended his church for 20 years, was married by him, took his children to that church, called him his spiritual counselor and has stated that he consults him before making any &#8220;bold political decisions&#8221;.  You&#8217;re not seriously drawing an equivalence between that and someone who merely &#8220;tunes into&#8221; Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, are you?</p>
<p>You are also making a mistake, in my mind, in comparing a presidential candidate to a hypothetical anonymous &#8220;anyone&#8221;.  The implications of a certain behavior in a hypothetical anyone are completely different than the implications of the same behavior in a man who could be president of the United States, with all the power that office allows one to exercise.  If you compare Obama to a specific political candidate who you can prove has an initimate relationship with Pat Robertson, then you might be on to something.  As it is, your comparison is severely lacking.</p>
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		<title>By: RattlerGator</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93553</link>
		<dc:creator>RattlerGator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2008/03/21/dems-in-panic-obama-attacked-from-two-directions/#comment-93553</guid>
		<description>dclydew, name me the Presidential candidate who has come close to securing their party&#039;s nomination with a Falwell as their spiritual leader? Who has a 20-year relationship with such a spiritual leader and absolutely no record of distancing himself or herself from that kind of inflammatory preaching in the pulpit?

Sorry, friend, but you can&#039;t do that. In this regard, Obama is an original and no amount of rationalized links to odd comments from Moral Majority types changes that fact.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dclydew, name me the Presidential candidate who has come close to securing their party&#8217;s nomination with a Falwell as their spiritual leader? Who has a 20-year relationship with such a spiritual leader and absolutely no record of distancing himself or herself from that kind of inflammatory preaching in the pulpit?</p>
<p>Sorry, friend, but you can&#8217;t do that. In this regard, Obama is an original and no amount of rationalized links to odd comments from Moral Majority types changes that fact.</p>
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